From Dark Matter to Dormant Comets: Your Astronomy Questions Answered

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Professor Fred Watson: Hi there.

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Andrew Dunkley: Thank you for joining us. This is Space Nuts

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and it's a Q and A edition. My name is Andrew

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Dunkley. What's Q and A stand for? I don't

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know, but we've got questions, uh, from our

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audience, which we will answer.

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Qa. Oh, there it is.

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Um, Casey wants to know about dark matter

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stars even though they don't exist. And we

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can't answer the question.

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Professor Fred Watson: Uh, Michael.

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Andrew Dunkley: Um, he's sent one in about dormant

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comets, uh, which, uh, I found most

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intriguing. So it'd be interesting to

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discover what that's about. Uh, Derek is

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asking about gravitational slingshots,

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and Jason is asking what

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Fred Watson thinks of the new wave of

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smart telescopes. Ooh.

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Uh, we'll talk about all of that on this

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episode of space nuts.

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Andrew Dunkley: 15 seconds. Guidance is internal.

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10, 9.

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Professor Fred Watson: Ignition sequence start. Space nuts.

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Andrew Dunkley: 5, 4, 3, 2. 1, 2, 3, 4,

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5, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

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Andrew Dunkley: Space nuts. Astronauts report at mill.

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Andrew Dunkley: Good.

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Andrew Dunkley: And he's, uh, back again to try and sort all

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that out. It's Professor Fred Watson Watson,

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astronomer at large. Hello, Fred Watson.

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Professor Fred Watson: Hello, Andrew. Very good to see you again.

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Andrew Dunkley: And you too. It's been minutes.

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Professor Fred Watson: It has. Um, uh, I might add a postscript

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to, um, when we recorded the last session.

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Yeah, I just, uh, got back from the annual

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science meeting of the Astronomical Society

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of Australia. And I meant to mention that,

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um, an old friend of Space Nuts was

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there and I had dinner with him, um,

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on the first night. And that is Peter

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Verwein, who is our contact in

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the world of mond. Uh, modified Newtonian

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dynamics. Yeah. So, uh,

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terrific. Nice to do. He's still

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monding, although, um, I think

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he's had some hurdles to overcome. So

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we might have to do an update on that down

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the track.

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Andrew Dunkley: Well, while we're sending shout outs, I'll

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send a shout out to an Instagram, um,

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presence person named the Greens

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Goddess, Uh, a female golfer who,

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uh, started following me, I don't know, some

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time ago. And I thought, I'll do the honour

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of following her back. And, uh, she posted a

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video of her swing the other day and I noted

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a couple of issues with it. So

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I sent her a note and said, look, you got a

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bit of a reverse pivot going there.

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Try this drill to sort it out.

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Anyway, she sent a note back and said, oh,

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that's very helpful. By the way, big fan of

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Space Nuts.

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Professor Fred Watson: Okay, that's nice.

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Andrew Dunkley: Might have been why she followed me in the

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first place.

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Professor Fred Watson: But anyway, good on the Green Goddess.

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Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, good for her. All right,

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um, shall we answer Some questions,

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Fred Watson.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yes, we might as well might.

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We know we're here.

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Andrew Dunkley: Let's get into our first one. And it comes

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from one of our regular contributors. This is

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Casey.

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Andrew Dunkley: Hello, Fred Watson, Andrew and Huw. This is

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Casey from Colorado. I know

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that dark matter stars are completely

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hypothetical at this point. I've read

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before that they would be some of the

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brightest objects in the sky. If they do

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exist though, I was wondering if you could

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please explain why that is and also how they

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can get so hot without any fusion.

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Hope you're both well and thanks for the

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podcast.

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Andrew Dunkley: Thank you, Casey. I just knocked everything

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over on my desk, but, um, it'll wash out,

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um, dark matter stars.

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I think somebody's brought these up once

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before, if I'm correct in my thinking.

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But, um, maybe we should start by

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trying to explain what they're supposed to

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be.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yes, well, that's right. Uh, um,

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uh, first of all, Dark matter

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is still hypothesised, really,

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notwithstanding, uh, what we're just saying

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about, um, Peter Verweil. And that is an

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alternative theory to try and account for

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the, uh, low, um,

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the way, uh, the galaxies tell

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us that there is something there that we

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can't see. Uh, um, his

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uh, version of that is something called

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modified Newtonian dynamics that suggests

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that accelerations, uh, do not follow the

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normal Newtonian rules at very low levels.

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I think that's going into doubt though now.

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So I think, I suspect that dark matter

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is, um, basically

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consolidating, uh, its position as the

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number, um, one theory for why galaxies don't

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just fly apart because they've got all this

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stuff in them that we called out matter. So I

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think it's true to say, um, that

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despite a few people looking in other

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directions, most of the scientific community

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believes that we are in a universe

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whose matter content is dominated by

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something that we see sort of outweighs

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normal matter by five to one. Yeah, uh, and

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it's probably some sort of subatomic particle

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that we just have not, uh, come to grips with

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yet. Now, once you accept

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the idea of new

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species of subatomic particles that only

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interact with, uh,

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everything else through gravity, they don't

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interact through electromagnetic radiation or

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any other kind of, uh, particle physics.

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It's only gravity that lets us know that

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these things, uh, these dark matter

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particles are there, hypothesised still, but

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likely to be there. Uh, and it's their own

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gravitational attraction that stops galaxies

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falling apart or flying apart because they're

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rotating too quickly. So that's what dark

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matter is now, um,

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on that bare

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framework or foundation. Scientists have

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built up some models of what dark matter

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particles might be. And

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um, in particular there is an

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idea that if dark matter

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particles come together, then

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a bit like matter and antimatter,

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they would annihilate and

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basically produce radiation.

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And that's the idea of a dark matter star

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that you've got a, uh, hypothetical object,

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um, bigger than your average solar system.

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So they're very large.

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Andrew Dunkley: Wow.

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Professor Fred Watson: Uh, made of dark matter. Uh, but

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what makes them shine is the dark matter

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particles self annihilating.

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Uh, and there are some

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pundits who believe

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that the very first stars that

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formed when the universe was in its infancy

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were actually dark matter stars. Uh,

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were these ones that are super

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bright in the sense that they emit a

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large amount of radiation, but not,

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not super bright in a way that you

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might imagine. And that's because they are so

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big. Um, they are

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basically puffed up by the

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energy coming from this radiation. Uh,

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but because they're so big, their surfaces,

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uh, are relatively cool. And so

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what you see is an object in the infrared.

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Uh, if you're looking out for a dark matter

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star or what you would see

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if they existed.

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Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, I get it.

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Professor Fred Watson: Um, so that's why that's basically where the

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energy comes from, the annihilation of dark

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matter particles. Self annihilation.

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Um, but yet

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they're bright, um, because of

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basically the amount of radiation

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that they generate with these, uh, uh,

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annihilation that makes them bright and they

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get uh, to something like 10

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billion times more

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energetic than the sun in terms of the

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energy that they release. Uh, but as I said,

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it's infrared radiation. So they're really

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releasing it, um, in the form of

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heat.

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Andrew Dunkley: So in terms of naked eye observation, you

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can't see a thing.

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Professor Fred Watson: I think that's right, yes. I mean there would

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also be. If we're seeing them in the early

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universe, these things will be very highly

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redshifted. That means their light will not

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only be infrared, but it'll be even redder

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than red infrared, uh, because of the

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expansion of the universe stretching out the

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light waves. Um, so, uh, they

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might be quite difficult, might be quite

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difficult to detect. However, uh, it's

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basically, uh, one of the things that the

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James Webb telescope is looking for. It's

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looking for any evidence of dark matter

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stars.

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Andrew Dunkley: So where a normal star like ours, um,

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depletes its fuel and then turns into a

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red giant and then collapses into a white

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dwarf, a dark matter star

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annihilates itself.

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Professor Fred Watson: I think that would be right. I think it would

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just basically fizzle out

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Evaporate and fizzle out. Yeah.

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Andrew Dunkley: Okay.

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Andrew Dunkley: Wow.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.

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Andrew Dunkley: Thank you, Casey. Um, haven't found one yet,

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but if you do stumble across one, let us

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know.

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Professor Fred Watson: Just hand it in, please.

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Andrew Dunkley: Yes, yes. Just don't forget to put it in a

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lead box.

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Professor Fred Watson: That's right.

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Andrew Dunkley: Thanks for the, the question.

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Our next question, Fred Watson, comes from

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Michael. Uh, he said, I understand that. Oh,

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uh, he says, andrew, I apologise. I still not

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do not have questions, uh, about dark matter.

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It's all right, person before you did it. Uh,

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as I have a firm understanding of how coffee

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and Coca Cola power my day, uh, I understand

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that dormant comments have been suggested

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with a few even confirmed inside the snow

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line, I'm wondering how many might exist.

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Seven. There's seven. I have

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no idea. Uh, and how, uh, a, uh, best

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guess might be made to arrive at that number.

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It was my best guess. I'm going. Well here.

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Professor Fred Watson: Uh, you are, you're guessing.

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Andrew Dunkley: Well, other than infrared telescopes and

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cameras looking for low temperature dark

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objects, what instruments on a smaller

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satellite might be best for searching for

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either or both of the Earth Sun Trojan

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Lagrange points? Uh, that comes from Michael.

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Now I'm assuming Michael's in Alberta because

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I'm going off his email address and it had

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the abbreviation AB And I looked that up and

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that's the abbreviation for the Province of

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Alberta, Canada. But I might be wrong and I'm

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sorry if I'm way off the map,

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Michael, but thanks, uh, for the question.

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Okay, um, are there,

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are there, um, yes.

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Comets?

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Professor Fred Watson: Thought to be. So, um, what's a dormant

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comet? Uh, well, it is,

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it would be a comet that has,

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uh, gone past the sun several

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times in its lifetime. I think that's

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probably the bottom line. Uh,

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it's an old comet

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and uh, because

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every time a comet gets near the sun,

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it's basically radiates its uh,

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gas and dust into space. Uh, the gas

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turns into a kind of plasma. It's excited by

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the sun's radiation. Uh, and

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so you get what we call a gas tail for a

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comet. And um, you can also get a dust tail

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because comets are dusty objects with this

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sort of frozen gas around them. The

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dust leaks out when the gas blows away.

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And so you get uh, comets that have two

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tails. So um,

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imagine, uh, one of these things that's

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gone, ah, round the sun several

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times. And basically

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it would have a kind of crusty

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layer to it, an outer layer,

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uh, which is the dust sort of

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coagulating on the surface. So the

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gases has been blowing dust off.

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But there's still a residual dust layer

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that might give you this crust

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around the edge of it. That means that even

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though it goes near the sun, the sun doesn't

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penetrate, uh, the sun's radiation and heat

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don't penetrate the dust. And so it doesn't

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actually, uh, stir into action. It doesn't

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start behaving like a comet which is to

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release its gas and dust.

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Andrew Dunkley: Okay.

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Professor Fred Watson: Um, and so, uh, that,

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uh, you know, that would, that would be a

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dormant comet once one that's gone to sleep.

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Um, what might stir it back into

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action is if you

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had a dormant comet colliding

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with something else. Uh, hopefully not the

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Earth. Uh, but you know, maybe another,

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another, um, an asteroid or

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something like that, uh, that might

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disturb that, that

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dusty crust on the outside or crusty

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dust, uh, the sort of crust of the. Over the.

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I. If you could expose

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the icy surface to the sun's radiation, then

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it would basically start giving you what, ah,

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we would call an active comet as well. Um, I

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mean the way they are. And this is really the

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nub of the question, I guess, how do you

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detect them? Because the problem is,

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um, if you've got a comet, even though it's

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made mostly of ice, uh,

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uh, if it's got this, um, dark

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crust on the outside of it, there's very

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little to distinguish that from an asteroid.

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Um, and so how do you know whether this

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is a dormant comet or an asteroid?

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And it's really quite hard to do. Um,

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there's not that much to choose between them.

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You will be looking at a kind of thermal

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signature because, um, asteroids are cold

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rock. Uh, dormant comets

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are cold ice with a kind of rocky,

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sort of dusty, um, rocky layer on the

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outside. Uh, there's not that much to

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differentiate between them until you knock

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some of the dust off and the thing. Thing

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wakes up.

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Andrew Dunkley: Yes.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. Um, so, um,

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I think, uh, there's scope for us

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trying to do a survey. But it will be hard

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to know, uh, whether

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you've picked a dormant comet or you've got

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an asteroid. And it may well be that some of

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the asteroids that we consider to be

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asteroids are actually dormant comets.

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Andrew Dunkley: So they're super duper old. I suppose the

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smoking gun would be. Most of them have got

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Zimmer frames.

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Professor Fred Watson: Could be, yep. Um, comet. Zimmer frame.

348
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Yes. I like the sound of that.

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Andrew Dunkley: You never know.

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Professor Fred Watson: Um,

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Andrew Dunkley: worth looking for or not. But

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yeah. Okay, so, um, so

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they might be out there. When Michael said

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that, uh, a few have been confirmed in the

355
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snow line. What's, what's he

356
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Meaning there.

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Professor Fred Watson: So that means. So the snow line is,

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um, basically it's on the far side

359
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of Mars's orbit. Ye, where, um,

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water vapour stops being vapour and

361
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freezes. It's the, uh, sort

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of outer side of the

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Goldilocks zone.

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Andrew Dunkley: Okay, fair enough. Michael, thanks for the

365
00:15:16.409 --> 00:15:18.490
question. Um, that was fascinating. Um,

366
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and um, yeah, I suppose one day someone might

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go, aha, I've found a way. And then

368
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we've got the answer. This is Space

369
00:15:27.530 --> 00:15:29.570
Nuts, Andrew Dunkley with Professor

370
00:15:29.570 --> 00:15:30.530
Fred Watson Watson.

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Space Nuts. Oh, that was. That

372
00:15:35.510 --> 00:15:38.510
was it. That was so short. I'm going to

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00:15:38.510 --> 00:15:39.950
do it again. Space Nuts.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. He's got a very nice voice, hasn't he?

375
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Andrew Dunkley: He has, yes. I can do that on my

376
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machine. Hang on. Yeah, wait for

377
00:15:47.710 --> 00:15:48.870
it. Uh, not there.

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Professor Fred Watson: Okay.

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Andrew Dunkley: Uh, no, not there. Oh, here it is.

380
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Space Nuts.

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Professor Fred Watson: I, um. Yeah, I think you need some, uh,

382
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Gaviscon or something.

383
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Andrew Dunkley: I can do it with this one.

384
00:16:07.800 --> 00:16:10.280
Yeah, I could go on forever.

385
00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:11.400
Professor Fred Watson: I know you could,

386
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Andrew Dunkley: but I won't. Um, we'll go to it.

387
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Andrew Dunkley: Yeah.

388
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Professor Fred Watson: Anyway, I'm sure you can use that, uh, in

389
00:16:18.200 --> 00:16:21.080
suitable, uh, environments that, um, I

390
00:16:21.080 --> 00:16:23.760
mean audio environments that might intrigue

391
00:16:23.760 --> 00:16:26.510
our listeners or otherwise, um, confuse

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them.

393
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Andrew Dunkley: Indeed.

394
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Our next question comes from Derek.

395
00:16:30.310 --> 00:16:33.150
Andrew Dunkley: Hi guys, this is Derek from southern Ontario

396
00:16:33.150 --> 00:16:36.150
and Canada. Again, um, just wondering if

397
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you could explain the orbital

398
00:16:38.990 --> 00:16:41.990
mechanics behind Slingshots. Gravitational

399
00:16:41.990 --> 00:16:44.710
slingshots. And uh, I'm trying

400
00:16:44.710 --> 00:16:47.630
to understand whether the rotation of

401
00:16:47.630 --> 00:16:49.430
the planet has anything to do with that

402
00:16:49.430 --> 00:16:52.430
slingshot or if it's just, uh, uh, in

403
00:16:52.430 --> 00:16:55.330
terms of how close you get to the planet. Um,

404
00:16:55.330 --> 00:16:57.170
if you can elaborate a little bit on that,

405
00:16:57.170 --> 00:16:58.730
that would be great. Thank you. Love the

406
00:16:58.730 --> 00:16:59.890
podcast. Have a great day.

407
00:17:00.050 --> 00:17:02.130
Andrew Dunkley: Thank you, Derek. Uh, it's a good question,

408
00:17:02.310 --> 00:17:05.210
uh, and I think we've seen

409
00:17:05.210 --> 00:17:07.810
it used, uh, many times for some of these

410
00:17:07.810 --> 00:17:10.530
probes that have been sent, um, way out

411
00:17:10.770 --> 00:17:13.009
into the solar system because we

412
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find it's uh, a much more efficient way of

413
00:17:15.850 --> 00:17:17.410
doing things because we haven't got the fuel

414
00:17:17.410 --> 00:17:19.970
to send them all the way in under their own

415
00:17:19.970 --> 00:17:21.610
steam. That was certainly the case with the

416
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Voyagers, uh, and they were two

417
00:17:24.549 --> 00:17:27.069
of the best examples of using the gas giants

418
00:17:27.069 --> 00:17:29.869
for slingshots, um, but

419
00:17:29.869 --> 00:17:32.389
even launching things off our own planet.

420
00:17:32.389 --> 00:17:34.069
There's a bit of slingshot effect, isn't

421
00:17:34.069 --> 00:17:34.349
there?

422
00:17:35.340 --> 00:17:37.949
Professor Fred Watson: Uh, yes, that's right, there is. Um, so,

423
00:17:38.420 --> 00:17:41.189
um, it's not just getting to the outer

424
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solar system. I think, um, the uh,

425
00:17:43.389 --> 00:17:46.349
Bepicolombo, uh, spacecraft which is on

426
00:17:46.349 --> 00:17:48.629
its way to Mercury, I think that's had

427
00:17:48.629 --> 00:17:51.029
Something like seven slingshots with Venus

428
00:17:51.029 --> 00:17:52.909
and the Earth. That's right. Might be

429
00:17:52.909 --> 00:17:55.490
exaggerating, but, um, it's had a large

430
00:17:55.490 --> 00:17:58.450
number, and that's in order to make

431
00:17:58.450 --> 00:18:01.330
its velocity, uh, match the velocity of

432
00:18:01.330 --> 00:18:04.250
Mercury, um, which you'd think will be

433
00:18:04.250 --> 00:18:06.610
easy as you drop things into the inner solar

434
00:18:06.610 --> 00:18:08.050
system, but it's not actually. It's quite

435
00:18:08.050 --> 00:18:10.610
hard to do. You've got to kind of catch up

436
00:18:10.610 --> 00:18:13.130
with Mercury as it steams around in its orbit

437
00:18:13.130 --> 00:18:14.850
because it's going faster than the Earth is

438
00:18:14.850 --> 00:18:17.620
in its orbit around the sun. Um,

439
00:18:18.170 --> 00:18:21.050
so, um, yes. So it's a very useful tool

440
00:18:21.050 --> 00:18:22.850
for exploring the solar system. I think

441
00:18:22.850 --> 00:18:24.810
you're about to confirm how many it's had.

442
00:18:25.050 --> 00:18:27.670
Andrew Dunkley: I haven't found it yet. I'm usually pretty

443
00:18:27.670 --> 00:18:28.470
quick, but I'm not.

444
00:18:28.550 --> 00:18:29.830
Professor Fred Watson: You are pretty quick, yeah.

445
00:18:30.870 --> 00:18:33.190
Andrew Dunkley: It's proving elusive at the moment, but I'll

446
00:18:33.190 --> 00:18:33.550
get it.

447
00:18:33.550 --> 00:18:36.350
Professor Fred Watson: I will get. Has had an elusive number

448
00:18:36.350 --> 00:18:39.150
of slingshots, uh, uh,

449
00:18:39.150 --> 00:18:41.270
but the bottom line is that it's a process

450
00:18:41.270 --> 00:18:44.070
that works well and is actually

451
00:18:44.310 --> 00:18:46.150
very much a part of the

452
00:18:46.390 --> 00:18:49.270
astrodynamicists toolkit when they're

453
00:18:49.510 --> 00:18:52.310
actually working out the, um, orbits

454
00:18:52.310 --> 00:18:55.020
and um, trajectories of planets.

455
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Andrew Dunkley: Exploring the nine slingshots.

456
00:18:58.460 --> 00:19:01.380
Professor Fred Watson: Nine slingshots. There you go. Seven was an

457
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underestimate.

458
00:19:02.220 --> 00:19:04.780
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. One at Earth, two at Venus, and six at

459
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Mercury itself.

460
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Professor Fred Watson: Yes. Fantastic. That's what you need to

461
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match Mercury's orbital speed. Quite

462
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remarkable. So, um, how does it work? Well,

463
00:19:14.780 --> 00:19:16.780
it's counterintuitive, isn't it, because you

464
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think that a, uh, spacecraft falling in

465
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towards a planet, uh, it's going to

466
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gain velocity, but then as it leaves the

467
00:19:25.490 --> 00:19:28.090
planet, it's going to decelerate and so it

468
00:19:28.090 --> 00:19:30.210
would lose velocity. And you might think the

469
00:19:30.210 --> 00:19:33.010
two would balance up, but the bottom line is

470
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they don't. And it's all about the angle that

471
00:19:35.650 --> 00:19:38.410
you come in, uh, when you intercept

472
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the planet's orbit. And if you get the

473
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angle right, you can have this situation

474
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where, uh, without making contact at

475
00:19:46.970 --> 00:19:49.850
all, where some of the momentum of the planet

476
00:19:50.170 --> 00:19:52.330
is transferred to the spacecra.

477
00:19:53.010 --> 00:19:55.790
Um, and so the spacecraft gets

478
00:19:55.790 --> 00:19:58.430
a, uh, push in velocity, its velocity

479
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increases. The planet doesn't even notice the

480
00:20:01.310 --> 00:20:03.230
difference because the spacecraft has so

481
00:20:03.230 --> 00:20:05.430
little mass compared with,

482
00:20:06.050 --> 00:20:08.990
um, the planet. Um, so it's

483
00:20:08.990 --> 00:20:11.110
balancing the momentum.

484
00:20:11.350 --> 00:20:13.990
Momentum, of course, is just the mass times

485
00:20:13.990 --> 00:20:16.830
the velocity. Uh, and so you've got a very

486
00:20:16.830 --> 00:20:19.790
big mass transferring momentum to a very

487
00:20:19.790 --> 00:20:22.470
small mass. And, um, that means you get

488
00:20:22.470 --> 00:20:25.090
quite a significant velocity kick, uh, in

489
00:20:25.090 --> 00:20:28.090
doing that. And so it's not to do

490
00:20:28.090 --> 00:20:31.090
with the rotation. Um, so Derek is

491
00:20:32.050 --> 00:20:35.010
right to point out that as a query, is it to

492
00:20:35.010 --> 00:20:37.650
do with the rotation? The answer is no. So if

493
00:20:37.650 --> 00:20:39.970
you had a planet that wasn't rotating at all,

494
00:20:40.590 --> 00:20:42.090
uh, you could still do a gravitational

495
00:20:42.090 --> 00:20:44.010
slingshot very successfully with it. Oh,

496
00:20:44.010 --> 00:20:44.450
okay.

497
00:20:47.650 --> 00:20:50.450
Andrew Dunkley: So does the spacecraft, when it's doing

498
00:20:50.450 --> 00:20:53.450
this slingshot, actually steal some of

499
00:20:53.450 --> 00:20:54.290
the planet's energy?

500
00:20:54.900 --> 00:20:55.220
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.

501
00:20:55.220 --> 00:20:56.020
Andrew Dunkley: Is that how it works?

502
00:20:56.660 --> 00:20:59.490
Professor Fred Watson: It's stealing momentum, uh,

503
00:20:59.540 --> 00:21:02.340
and um, using that to accelerate

504
00:21:02.340 --> 00:21:05.140
and sometimes quite dramatically. So the

505
00:21:05.140 --> 00:21:07.940
change in the orbital trajectory is really

506
00:21:07.940 --> 00:21:10.699
significant. But it's a fantastic tool

507
00:21:10.699 --> 00:21:13.220
for exploring the planets.

508
00:21:13.620 --> 00:21:16.180
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, it is until the day we can

509
00:21:16.420 --> 00:21:18.420
come up with a new way of,

510
00:21:20.420 --> 00:21:22.580
a new form of engine

511
00:21:23.220 --> 00:21:24.820
propulsion. That's the word I was wanting.

512
00:21:25.270 --> 00:21:28.100
Uh, that um, renders

513
00:21:28.100 --> 00:21:30.180
gravitational assist unnecessary.

514
00:21:30.740 --> 00:21:32.940
Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's right. At the moment, we haven't

515
00:21:32.940 --> 00:21:34.420
got there yet. No, you're right.

516
00:21:34.820 --> 00:21:37.300
Andrew Dunkley: But it might. Yeah, it could be

517
00:21:37.539 --> 00:21:39.860
scramjet technology, it could be

518
00:21:40.100 --> 00:21:42.580
nuclear power, like fusion engines, things

519
00:21:42.580 --> 00:21:45.140
like that. We're a long way from that. But,

520
00:21:45.150 --> 00:21:48.080
uh, those are possibilities. Yeah, yeah.

521
00:21:48.230 --> 00:21:51.200
Um, who knows? Um,

522
00:21:51.280 --> 00:21:53.560
but the more you speed up in space, the more

523
00:21:53.560 --> 00:21:55.160
you've got to be careful because there's lots

524
00:21:55.160 --> 00:21:57.400
of stuff you can bump into. You don't really

525
00:21:57.400 --> 00:21:58.960
want to do that at pace, do you?

526
00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:02.120
Professor Fred Watson: You've got to know where all this stuff is.

527
00:22:02.120 --> 00:22:04.080
And that's what astronomers are for.

528
00:22:04.320 --> 00:22:04.760
Andrew Dunkley: Indeed.

529
00:22:04.760 --> 00:22:05.840
Professor Fred Watson: Tell you where it all is.

530
00:22:06.970 --> 00:22:08.950
Andrew Dunkley: Uh, thank you, Derek. I hope that covered,

531
00:22:08.950 --> 00:22:11.120
uh, your question adequately.

532
00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:18.760
Space nuts. What we're going to do

533
00:22:18.760 --> 00:22:21.530
now, Fred Watson, is, um, we've got, uh,

534
00:22:21.560 --> 00:22:24.400
we've had quite a Canadian influence in, in

535
00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:26.200
today's show by the look of it. Uh, this

536
00:22:26.440 --> 00:22:29.119
comes um, from Jason in Montreal, in

537
00:22:29.119 --> 00:22:32.000
Quebec. And uh, he says, I'm a big fan of the

538
00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:32.200
show.

539
00:22:32.200 --> 00:22:34.800
I have a question regarding the rapid rise of

540
00:22:34.800 --> 00:22:37.480
fully automated smart telescopes

541
00:22:37.800 --> 00:22:40.460
and their place in the modern hobby.

542
00:22:40.950 --> 00:22:43.100
Uh, on one hand it feels like these devices

543
00:22:43.100 --> 00:22:45.220
are, ah, an incredible cost effective

544
00:22:45.220 --> 00:22:47.380
gateway. They allow beginners to dive

545
00:22:47.380 --> 00:22:50.300
straight into astrophotography and see almost

546
00:22:50.460 --> 00:22:52.740
instant results without spending thousands of

547
00:22:52.740 --> 00:22:54.700
dollars on complex gear right away.

548
00:22:55.420 --> 00:22:58.180
That immediate reward seems to be a fantastic

549
00:22:58.180 --> 00:23:00.020
way to spark a lifelong interest in

550
00:23:00.020 --> 00:23:02.980
astronomy. On the other hand, there

551
00:23:02.980 --> 00:23:05.060
seems to be a, uh, bit of a divide in the

552
00:23:05.060 --> 00:23:06.700
community with some traditional

553
00:23:06.940 --> 00:23:09.870
astrophotographers viewing them as cheating

554
00:23:10.350 --> 00:23:13.110
because the automated software removes so

555
00:23:13.110 --> 00:23:16.070
much of the steep learning curve. What

556
00:23:16.070 --> 00:23:17.910
are your thoughts on this technological

557
00:23:17.910 --> 00:23:20.390
shift? Do you see smart telescopes as a

558
00:23:20.390 --> 00:23:23.030
positive tool for opening up the night sky to

559
00:23:23.030 --> 00:23:25.950
a broader audience, or do you Feel

560
00:23:26.030 --> 00:23:28.790
something valuable is lost when we automate

561
00:23:28.790 --> 00:23:30.830
the setup and tracking process.

562
00:23:31.630 --> 00:23:34.630
Uh, I actually bought one recently and I've

563
00:23:34.630 --> 00:23:36.710
already learned a lot over the past few

564
00:23:36.710 --> 00:23:38.830
months. Getting those quick results didn't

565
00:23:38.830 --> 00:23:41.170
stop me from wanting to learn more in. In

566
00:23:41.170 --> 00:23:44.090
fact, it did the opposite. Uh, it got

567
00:23:44.090 --> 00:23:45.690
me watching more astronomy and

568
00:23:45.690 --> 00:23:48.410
astrophotography videos than usual, uh, on

569
00:23:48.410 --> 00:23:50.850
YouTube and joining Facebook groups to learn

570
00:23:50.850 --> 00:23:53.770
from other users. And of course, let me

571
00:23:53.770 --> 00:23:56.450
find your podcast. Uh, thank you for the

572
00:23:56.450 --> 00:23:58.530
great episodes. Uh, that comes from Jason in

573
00:23:58.530 --> 00:23:59.690
Montreal. I'm going to show you something,

574
00:23:59.690 --> 00:24:00.090
Fred Watson.

575
00:24:00.410 --> 00:24:03.050
Professor Fred Watson: Yep. Let me see.

576
00:24:04.270 --> 00:24:06.890
Uh, I've got one.

577
00:24:07.290 --> 00:24:08.030
He's got one.

578
00:24:08.030 --> 00:24:10.450
Andrew Dunkley: Um, I've got one. And yes, it simplifies

579
00:24:10.450 --> 00:24:12.330
everything. It does all the hard work for

580
00:24:12.330 --> 00:24:13.910
you, but if you someone who doesn't like

581
00:24:13.910 --> 00:24:16.230
doing the hard work, it's a godsend.

582
00:24:17.110 --> 00:24:19.230
Yeah, that's my take on it. I'll keep it nice

583
00:24:19.230 --> 00:24:22.070
and short. I know a couple of people

584
00:24:22.070 --> 00:24:23.950
who've got both. They've got a traditional

585
00:24:23.950 --> 00:24:26.950
telescope with the whole kit set

586
00:24:26.950 --> 00:24:29.069
up with their computers and the programmes

587
00:24:29.069 --> 00:24:31.830
and all the tracking technology.

588
00:24:32.390 --> 00:24:34.310
They like to do it the old fashioned way.

589
00:24:34.310 --> 00:24:36.630
And, uh, they've also got smart

590
00:24:36.630 --> 00:24:38.870
telescopes, um, which

591
00:24:39.640 --> 00:24:42.560
do the same thing. But, um, you know,

592
00:24:42.560 --> 00:24:44.600
you've got to rob Peter to pay Paul. The

593
00:24:44.760 --> 00:24:46.760
efficiency and simplicity of that,

594
00:24:47.740 --> 00:24:50.640
uh, also means that your images aren't going

595
00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:53.120
to be nearly as good as a

596
00:24:53.120 --> 00:24:55.720
traditional telescope. Uh, so

597
00:24:58.200 --> 00:25:01.200
it ebbs and flows. There's a cost for

598
00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:03.400
the, um, let's not say the word cheating,

599
00:25:04.760 --> 00:25:07.720
but there is a cost. Um, uh, but it

600
00:25:07.720 --> 00:25:09.700
does make astrophotography

601
00:25:10.970 --> 00:25:13.930
immensely affordable for a lot of

602
00:25:13.930 --> 00:25:14.170
people.

603
00:25:14.330 --> 00:25:16.650
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. And accessible too. Yes. Um,

604
00:25:17.450 --> 00:25:20.010
so, yes, look, um,

605
00:25:20.730 --> 00:25:22.650
I think Jason sort of answered his own

606
00:25:22.650 --> 00:25:25.290
question in exactly the way I would. Uh,

607
00:25:25.769 --> 00:25:28.490
that, uh, you've got

608
00:25:28.810 --> 00:25:31.610
the two aspects of it. It's a

609
00:25:31.610 --> 00:25:33.610
brilliant way of getting

610
00:25:34.410 --> 00:25:36.570
into astrophotography,

611
00:25:37.370 --> 00:25:40.220
um, almost painlessly, um,

612
00:25:42.180 --> 00:25:44.660
on a very good level too.

613
00:25:45.330 --> 00:25:47.860
Uh, and if you then wanted to do

614
00:25:48.500 --> 00:25:50.460
more, if you wanted to go for a bigger

615
00:25:50.460 --> 00:25:53.220
telescope and do your image processing

616
00:25:53.620 --> 00:25:54.780
in a more, um,

617
00:25:56.340 --> 00:25:59.060
perhaps a more precise way that's,

618
00:25:59.190 --> 00:26:02.020
uh, still open to you, I think, as a tool

619
00:26:02.020 --> 00:26:04.860
for getting people involved in astronomy.

620
00:26:04.860 --> 00:26:07.020
I think they're absolutely fabulous. I don't

621
00:26:07.020 --> 00:26:09.530
have one myself. Uh, I'm glad you've got one

622
00:26:09.600 --> 00:26:11.000
one, Andrew, because I've seen some of the

623
00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:12.440
results from that and they are very

624
00:26:12.440 --> 00:26:15.080
impressive. Uh, I've got a number of other

625
00:26:15.080 --> 00:26:16.840
friends who've got them as well, who are

626
00:26:16.840 --> 00:26:18.560
themselves professional astronomers.

627
00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:21.760
Andrew Dunkley: There's a photo I took the Other night of the

628
00:26:21.760 --> 00:26:22.240
M8.

629
00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:25.600
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. There you go. And it's lovely.

630
00:26:25.600 --> 00:26:28.040
Colour balance. That's pretty well what you'd

631
00:26:28.040 --> 00:26:30.240
expect to see from a David Malin image.

632
00:26:30.800 --> 00:26:32.560
And that's what's like.

633
00:26:32.560 --> 00:26:34.760
Andrew Dunkley: David Malan was a pioneer in this stuff.

634
00:26:34.760 --> 00:26:35.200
Professor Fred Watson: He did.

635
00:26:35.280 --> 00:26:36.800
Andrew Dunkley: Now you can do it from your lounge room.

636
00:26:37.350 --> 00:26:39.990
Professor Fred Watson: Yes. With. You can literally with your mobile

637
00:26:39.990 --> 00:26:41.270
phone. On your m. Mobile phone,

638
00:26:43.110 --> 00:26:46.030
Telescope outside. Um, yeah. I think

639
00:26:46.030 --> 00:26:48.770
it's fantastic. I'm very, uh,

640
00:26:49.030 --> 00:26:51.470
much old school. I love pottering around with

641
00:26:51.470 --> 00:26:53.310
a telescope with nothing more than an

642
00:26:53.310 --> 00:26:54.870
eyepiece. I've never really ventured into

643
00:26:54.870 --> 00:26:57.350
astrophotography. The nearest thing I've got

644
00:26:57.510 --> 00:26:59.790
to that has been a lot of aurora

645
00:26:59.790 --> 00:27:02.710
photography. Uh, um, which I

646
00:27:02.710 --> 00:27:05.270
love and is now also a lot more accessible

647
00:27:05.270 --> 00:27:08.230
just with a smartphone. Uh, so I don't

648
00:27:08.230 --> 00:27:09.770
carry around. Found all the kit I used to.

649
00:27:09.770 --> 00:27:12.050
When we go up to the Arctic, uh, to look for

650
00:27:12.050 --> 00:27:13.970
the aurora, just take my smartphone.

651
00:27:15.620 --> 00:27:18.300
Um, but you're right. Um,

652
00:27:19.250 --> 00:27:21.130
I think, as I said, I think Jason's answered

653
00:27:21.130 --> 00:27:23.490
it perfectly. It's obviously

654
00:27:23.730 --> 00:27:26.690
stimulated him to go further. Uh, he loves

655
00:27:26.690 --> 00:27:29.000
what he's got and he's finding out more. Uh,

656
00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:31.330
best of all, he found space nuts. Yes, nice.

657
00:27:31.650 --> 00:27:33.700
But, um. Uh,

658
00:27:34.930 --> 00:27:37.330
I would not be somebody who

659
00:27:37.700 --> 00:27:40.380
would frown upon these devices and

660
00:27:40.380 --> 00:27:43.140
saying, in my day we did not

661
00:27:43.140 --> 00:27:45.140
have this sort of thing. You know, we had to

662
00:27:45.140 --> 00:27:47.700
do it properly. We had to understand what was

663
00:27:47.700 --> 00:27:50.620
going on. Well, you can still do it

664
00:27:50.620 --> 00:27:53.459
and understand what's going on, uh, with

665
00:27:53.459 --> 00:27:56.220
your smart telescope. Well, what's. Sorry, go

666
00:27:56.220 --> 00:27:56.500
ahead.

667
00:27:56.740 --> 00:27:59.580
Andrew Dunkley: On mine, when I pick a target, it then gives

668
00:27:59.580 --> 00:28:02.100
me an audio briefing on what the target is,

669
00:28:02.100 --> 00:28:03.540
who found it, when it was found.

670
00:28:05.380 --> 00:28:06.380
Professor Fred Watson: That is fabulous.

671
00:28:06.380 --> 00:28:07.220
Andrew Dunkley: It is amazing.

672
00:28:10.090 --> 00:28:10.570
Good stuff.

673
00:28:10.730 --> 00:28:12.490
Professor Fred Watson: It's an astronomy class as well.

674
00:28:13.910 --> 00:28:16.570
Um, I think I'm right in saying that

675
00:28:16.890 --> 00:28:19.330
the first of these smart telescopes was a

676
00:28:19.330 --> 00:28:22.010
Unihedron. I think, uh, that was probably

677
00:28:22.810 --> 00:28:25.050
six or seven years ago when I saw the first

678
00:28:25.050 --> 00:28:27.130
one of those and I was very impressed with

679
00:28:27.130 --> 00:28:29.730
it. But what I was going to say was that they

680
00:28:29.730 --> 00:28:32.570
have now come down in price to be,

681
00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:34.620
um, really quite affordable.

682
00:28:35.090 --> 00:28:35.450
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah.

683
00:28:35.450 --> 00:28:37.730
Professor Fred Watson: And it's not beyond the realms of possibility

684
00:28:37.730 --> 00:28:39.610
that one day there might be one in the Watson

685
00:28:39.610 --> 00:28:42.250
household. Although I do like things that are

686
00:28:42.250 --> 00:28:44.250
made of brass. And do you look through one

687
00:28:44.250 --> 00:28:45.170
end and see how they.

688
00:28:45.490 --> 00:28:47.890
Andrew Dunkley: There are a mass of them out there and quite

689
00:28:47.890 --> 00:28:50.690
a few are, uh, well under a thousand dollars.

690
00:28:51.090 --> 00:28:51.570
Professor Fred Watson: Yes.

691
00:28:52.370 --> 00:28:54.770
Andrew Dunkley: So, you know, that makes

692
00:28:55.170 --> 00:28:56.770
a pretty wide target audience.

693
00:28:56.930 --> 00:28:59.010
The other thing mine does is you can click on

694
00:28:59.010 --> 00:29:01.880
the map on your phone and you can see where

695
00:29:01.880 --> 00:29:04.680
other uh, people are that are using

696
00:29:04.760 --> 00:29:06.280
the same gear as you.

697
00:29:06.360 --> 00:29:07.160
Professor Fred Watson: Interesting.

698
00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:09.320
Andrew Dunkley: I'm not sure, I'm not sure that goes down

699
00:29:09.320 --> 00:29:10.240
with the privacy laws.

700
00:29:10.240 --> 00:29:11.680
Professor Fred Watson: But anyway, uh, I was going to say is there a

701
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:13.880
privacy infringement there? Maybe, yeah.

702
00:29:14.440 --> 00:29:16.840
Andrew Dunkley: I've got um, satellite navigation in the car

703
00:29:16.840 --> 00:29:18.840
that does the same thing. It shows you other

704
00:29:18.840 --> 00:29:21.740
users of that particular device but um,

705
00:29:22.040 --> 00:29:24.880
they've um, curtailed it in Australia so it

706
00:29:24.880 --> 00:29:26.520
only shows you where they were like 10

707
00:29:26.520 --> 00:29:27.080
minutes ago.

708
00:29:27.960 --> 00:29:28.440
Professor Fred Watson: Okay.

709
00:29:28.440 --> 00:29:30.440
Andrew Dunkley: Which is pointless. Just turn it off.

710
00:29:30.760 --> 00:29:32.780
Professor Fred Watson: Yes, it is of a waste.

711
00:29:32.780 --> 00:29:35.500
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. Uh, well, you know, we live in nanny

712
00:29:35.500 --> 00:29:37.290
state New South Wales, so you've um,

713
00:29:38.980 --> 00:29:40.940
everything's on the table for uh, some sort

714
00:29:40.940 --> 00:29:43.820
of scrutiny. Probably me now after saying

715
00:29:43.820 --> 00:29:46.660
that. But yeah, Jason, look, I'm a big fan

716
00:29:46.660 --> 00:29:48.660
and you are too. And uh,

717
00:29:49.540 --> 00:29:51.860
I don't think it does spoil the tradition,

718
00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:54.460
uh, or the traditional approach to um,

719
00:29:54.460 --> 00:29:57.340
astrophotography because vinyl um,

720
00:29:57.740 --> 00:30:00.290
records have come back, back. So you know,

721
00:30:01.570 --> 00:30:03.090
you can't write anything off.

722
00:30:03.170 --> 00:30:05.650
Yeah, but I wanted that question

723
00:30:05.890 --> 00:30:08.770
to um, I wanted you to hear

724
00:30:08.770 --> 00:30:10.130
that question Fred Watson, because I know

725
00:30:10.130 --> 00:30:12.650
you've got a long history in um, in

726
00:30:12.650 --> 00:30:14.290
telescopes, you've written books about them

727
00:30:14.770 --> 00:30:17.730
and um, this is, this is the next big thing,

728
00:30:17.730 --> 00:30:18.370
I suppose.

729
00:30:19.490 --> 00:30:20.290
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, yeah.

730
00:30:20.290 --> 00:30:22.290
Andrew Dunkley: While we're talking about it, um, when you

731
00:30:22.290 --> 00:30:24.610
were away last, um, Jonty

732
00:30:24.930 --> 00:30:27.910
Horner grabbed a couple of astrophotographers

733
00:30:27.910 --> 00:30:30.790
and we did a special on astrophotography

734
00:30:31.270 --> 00:30:33.990
which I'm not sure if Huw's released it yet,

735
00:30:33.990 --> 00:30:36.030
but I think he's still working on how to get

736
00:30:36.030 --> 00:30:38.270
that out there. It's quite a, I think it's an

737
00:30:38.270 --> 00:30:40.390
hour long special on

738
00:30:40.550 --> 00:30:43.270
astrophotography and the techniques and how

739
00:30:43.270 --> 00:30:45.950
they did it and what you can do. So if you

740
00:30:45.950 --> 00:30:47.510
really want to get into the nuts and bolts of

741
00:30:47.510 --> 00:30:49.990
astrophotography, have a look for that one.

742
00:30:50.140 --> 00:30:52.510
Um, I'm not sure it's been released yet. Yet.

743
00:30:52.760 --> 00:30:55.110
Um, it took some pretty heavy editing because

744
00:30:55.110 --> 00:30:57.950
there were four people on it. So it was okay,

745
00:30:57.950 --> 00:31:00.470
it was a big show. But uh, yeah, that one

746
00:31:00.470 --> 00:31:02.750
will be available soon, if not already.

747
00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:06.150
Uh, and thanks for all your questions. Please

748
00:31:06.150 --> 00:31:07.950
keep them coming at our, ah, website,

749
00:31:08.029 --> 00:31:10.830
spacenutspodcast.com or spacenuts

750
00:31:10.830 --> 00:31:13.670
IO and click on the Little AMA tab at the

751
00:31:13.670 --> 00:31:16.350
top and send us your text or audio questions.

752
00:31:16.350 --> 00:31:17.790
If you're sending us an audio question,

753
00:31:17.790 --> 00:31:19.870
please remember to tell us where you're from

754
00:31:20.350 --> 00:31:21.010
and your name.

755
00:31:21.160 --> 00:31:21.400
Andrew Dunkley: Name.

756
00:31:21.580 --> 00:31:24.030
Andrew Dunkley: Um, it doesn't do that by itself. Uh,

757
00:31:24.030 --> 00:31:26.240
although I know sometimes people forget to

758
00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:28.080
tell us their name on where they're from on

759
00:31:28.080 --> 00:31:30.720
text as well. Um, but that's

760
00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:33.670
okay. Um, it's not mandatory, but, uh,

761
00:31:33.670 --> 00:31:36.320
it just helps us to know where everybody's

762
00:31:36.320 --> 00:31:38.680
at. Fred Watson, we're done. Thanks very

763
00:31:38.680 --> 00:31:39.000
much.

764
00:31:39.640 --> 00:31:42.320
Professor Fred Watson: Oh, thank you, Andrew. Good fun and great to

765
00:31:42.320 --> 00:31:44.120
hear from the listeners as well. Especially,

766
00:31:44.200 --> 00:31:46.460
you know, when we get questions that, uh,

767
00:31:46.600 --> 00:31:49.030
cover everything from, from dark matter,

768
00:31:49.030 --> 00:31:51.990
stars and dormant comets to the latest in

769
00:31:51.990 --> 00:31:54.310
telescope technology. Where else can you hear

770
00:31:54.310 --> 00:31:54.790
about all that?

771
00:31:54.790 --> 00:31:55.870
Andrew Dunkley: Uh, exactly.

772
00:31:55.870 --> 00:31:56.190
Professor Fred Watson: Right.

773
00:31:56.430 --> 00:31:58.630
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. All right. Thanks, Fred Watson. See you

774
00:31:58.630 --> 00:31:58.910
soon.

775
00:31:59.070 --> 00:32:00.030
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. Cheers. Cheers.

776
00:32:00.030 --> 00:32:01.430
Andrew Dunkley: For now, Professor Fred Watson Watson,

777
00:32:01.430 --> 00:32:03.510
astronomer at large, and thanks to Huw in the

778
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studio, couldn't be with us today because he

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00:32:05.110 --> 00:32:07.990
bought a smart telescope. He's

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00:32:07.990 --> 00:32:09.990
not smart enough to use it. Uh, and from me,

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00:32:09.990 --> 00:32:11.950
Andrew Dunkley, thanks for your company.

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00:32:12.350 --> 00:32:14.110
We'll catch you on the next episode of Space

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00:32:14.110 --> 00:32:16.430
Nuts. Bye bye. Space Nuts.

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00:32:16.430 --> 00:32:18.700
You've been listening to the Space Nick Nuts

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00:32:18.700 --> 00:32:21.580
podcast, available at

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00:32:21.580 --> 00:32:23.540
Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

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00:32:23.700 --> 00:32:26.540
iHeartRadio or your favourite podcast

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00:32:26.540 --> 00:32:28.860
player. You can also stream on demand at

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00:32:28.860 --> 00:32:29.540
bytes.

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00:32:29.540 --> 00:32:32.340
Professor Fred Watson: Com. This has been another quality podcast

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00:32:32.340 --> 00:32:34.330
production from Bytes. Com. Um,