April 5, 2026

Black Hole Dilemmas, Pulsar Planets & Bennu's Chemical Secrets | Q&A

Black Hole Dilemmas, Pulsar Planets & Bennu's Chemical Secrets | Q&A

Black Holes, Pulsar Planets, and the Mysteries of Bennu In this captivating Q&A episode of Space Nuts, hosts Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson tackle an array of intriguing listener questions that delve deep into the cosmos. From the nature...

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Black Holes, Pulsar Planets, and the Mysteries of Bennu
In this captivating Q&A episode of Space Nuts, hosts Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson tackle an array of intriguing listener questions that delve deep into the cosmos. From the nature of black holes and their supermassive growth to the discovery of planets orbiting pulsars, and the latest findings from the asteroid Bennu, this episode is packed with cosmic insights and scientific discussions.
Episode Highlights:
- Understanding Black Holes: Andrew and Fred explore the complexities of black holes, addressing how they can accrete enough matter to become supermassive within cosmological time scales, and the fascinating concept of time dilation at the event horizon.
- Pulsar Planets: Hazel's question about planets orbiting pulsars sparks a discussion on the survival of these celestial bodies after supernova explosions and the potential effects of pulsar radiation on their environments.
- Asteroid Bennu Update: David inquires about the latest findings from the asteroid Bennu, and the hosts reveal exciting new research on the complex chemical landscape and the implications of liquid water's interaction with organic materials on this carbon-rich asteroid.
- Neutrinos and Black Holes: Keith's question leads to a discussion on the elusive neutrinos, their ability to pass through matter, and what happens to them when they encounter a black hole.

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Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.

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WEBVTT

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Hi there, thanks for joining us again. This is Space Nuts.

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It's a Q and A edition. My name is Andrew Dunkley.

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Great to have your company. Questions today about falling into

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a black hole and how can black holes get super massive?

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Have they got enough time? It doesn't make sense. We'll

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see if we can explain that. Planets orbiting pulsars, that's

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a question that's been raised. And somebody wants an update

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on the asteroid Benu and what's going on with neutrinos.

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We'll try and answer all of that on this episode

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of Space.

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Nuts fifteen second internal ten nine ignition sequence Star Space

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Nuts Guy or three two.

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One Space Nuts. When I reported Bill's good and to

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furnish us with his vast amount of knowledgy. So the

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brain the size of a planet he has Professor Fred Watson,

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Astronomer at Large.

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Hello Fred, I've forgotten the name of the rulebot whose

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brain was the size of a plane.

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Marvin, the paranoid android.

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That's right, Yes it was Marvey.

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Yes, Marvel. He would have been really terrible on radio,

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no color, no inflection, and yeah, everything was just the

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end of the world for him, or the end of

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the universe, which is actually what the whole thing was about. Yes, hmmm,

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let's do some questions.

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Fred.

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If you are ready and willing and able, it doesn't

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matter if you're able. Adequacies enough, let's go to our

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first question. Long time listener, first time caller. I've been

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rereading the Three Body Problem trilogy without spoilers. There's a

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moment where an image of someone who fell into a

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small man made black hole is still visible. That got

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me thinking about time dilation at the event rising. Given

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that extreme gravitational time dilation occurs there, how are black

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holes able to accrete enough matter to grow to super

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massive scales within cosmological time scales. Thanks for all the

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time and effort you both put into the podcast. Nick

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from the UK, Milton Keynes, I think is the name

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of his locality, So yeah, you'd know that area. I

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imagine you'd know every square foot of the UK, wouldn't.

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I certainly know that bit quite well because my brother

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used to live in Newport Pagnell, which is right next

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door to Milton Keynes. Newport Pagnels a charming sort of

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old country village. Milton Keynes is a new town and

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so they're quite different, but they both had their pluses,

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and I'm sure they both had their minuses. He doesn't

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live there anymore, but that's another story which we won't

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go into on space nuts.

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The question, well, well, he made a reference to Three

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Body Problem. Someone fell into a man made black hole

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and there were still visible. I must say Nick that

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I read the first book and I found it pretty

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heavy going. So I haven't actually tried to read the rest,

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but I might get around to it. They're still making

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the TV series, but there's a bit of a.

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Like.

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The first season was out a couple of years ago,

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as it turns out now, but they initially announced that

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they weren't going to keep going. Then they said, yes

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we are. We're going to make two more seasons and

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align them both with the two more books. Now they're

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starting to think now we'll make one more season and

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combine the two books. So we don't quite know where

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it's at. But great series. If you haven't had a

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look at it, the Three Body Problem, the first season,

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I'm going to watch it again because it's so very good.

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His question, he's thinking about time dilation at the event horizon.

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Given that extreme gravitational time dilation occurs there, how are

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black holes able to create enough metad to grow to

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super massive scales within cosmological timelines. I love that question.

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It's great, isn't it. And it's a good question too.

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But the crucial point here, it's all dependent on your

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on the observer's frame of rest, in other words, where

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you are and what you're doing. So the person splattered

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on the event horizon of a black hole for whom

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time appears to have stopped to an outside observer, that

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person's already long gone. They've been sucked into the black hole.

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It's only their time dilated image that we are seeing.

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The outside observer sees the time dilation, the person going

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through doesn't. They just basically expect experienced time ticking away

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in the normal way, and as they get spaghettified, they

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probably wish they weren't there. So it's it's all about

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your kind of your vantage point. But we would call

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it the frame of reference. So, yes, it is possible

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for black holes to accrete and become super massive black holes.

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And you and I, I think Andrew spoke recently about

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the idea that black holes can become super massive much

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more quickly than we thought. And I can't remember the

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mechanism by which that happened. We did cover it. It's

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a story we covered and there was a sort of

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trick to it that if you do this, then your

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black hole can gather materials so quickly that you find

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yourself in the situation that we find when we observe

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the early universe with the James Web telescope, we find

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super massive black holes that are much more massive than

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we thought they should be. We thought the accretion of

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material onto these black holes would be relatively gentle and

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a long process, taking most of the age of the universe.

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But it's not. It all happens within the first few

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hundred million years.

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It exceeds the Eddington limit. Apparently this faster growth, these objects,

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often reaching billions of solemn masses, matured only nine hundred

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million years after the Big Bang, implying they formed extremely

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early and grew unexpectedly fast or had massive initials seeds.

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It says, I'd have to do a lot more reading too,

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but that they refer to a feeding frenzy, abundant gas

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fuel feeding frenzy.

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So feeding frenzy, that was it. It's to do with

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the properties of the gas cloud in which it's sitting

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That was right. Aha, you've reminded me. You see, there's

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a few neurons in there that are still remembiring, So.

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It's not so unusual. It's not so unusual. It's basically

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what yes, that's the next question. This is this, Yeah,

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it's the timescale isn't really the issue. It's it's what

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they've got to eat.

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That's right in terms of yes, in terms of how

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how fast these things can of creet. But you know,

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the basic premise of Nick's question is answered by the

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fact that you're talking about two different reference frames. Were

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you're observing the black hole from the outside, see somebody

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falling into it. The time seems to go slower and slower,

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and it's stationary on the event horizon. But for the

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person themselves, they're just whizzing down through the event horizon

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and straight into the black hole in very long strings.

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I okay, So let's just say we observe somebody who's

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obviously been sucked into a black hole, and we can

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see their image there. How long would that image last?

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Would they have to disappear eventually? Wouldn't they?

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I think so? Well, probably by covered up by whatever

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else falls into the black hole because there's lots of

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stuff going going in. Yeah, it's something I've tried to

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en visage as well, and I'm not really sure of

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what the you know, what the answer is, but I

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think it I suppose if you think of it like

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rain drops on a dry pavement or something, where one

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rain drop hits and you see it, you know, sort

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of sitting there, and another one covers it up, and

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then another one covers it up. Don't know, that's my

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wat some brain might do it.

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Yeah, that's that's a good example that covers it. I understand.

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If I understand everyone's got it radio, you should. Yeah.

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I think you are a lot a lot more than

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I am these days, I must say. Yeah. All right,

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Thanks Nick, great question, very thought provoking, and thanks for

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sending it in. And don't make it your last time,

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seeing it's your first time. Next question comes from Hazel.

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I have in my studies just come across something completely

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new to me but sort of makes sense. We've found

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evidence of what look like planets orbiting pulsars. This would

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mean somehow these orbiting bodies survive massive stars that went

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super nova. Also, the sweeping beams of seriously strong electromagnetic

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radiation would I assume have some fascinating effects on these planets.

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As always, love the show and keep up the great work.

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All the best from Cloudy skyde Scotland. Well, it wasn't

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Cloudy Skide when I was there because the sky was falling.

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It was raining cats and dogs. But I'm sure that's

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not uncommon. But yes, thanks for the question, Hazel. All right,

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Fred over to you.

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Yes. In fact, the first planet that was discovered beyond

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the Solar System was exactly what Hazel has just described.

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It's a planet around a pulsar and it won its

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discover as the Nobel Prize. This was I think it

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was nineteen seventy eight when that was discovered. The first

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planet orbiting a normal star was discovered in nineteen ninety

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five by Mayor and Cue Laws were the two scientists

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who discovered that. But the one orbiting a pulsar was

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it's partly because pulsars are very very accurate clocks, and

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you can use their accuracy of their clocks to time

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basically how they're rotating and whether there's anything gravitational going

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on in their environment, and that's how the planet was discovered.

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The first planet known to exist beyond the Solar System.

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Quite a big quite a big discovery. So there are

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others like that now, others known to be in the

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same situation. And I think the question Hazel postulates is

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still an active question. How does a planet survive that

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kind of scenario? Did it form after the super and

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Ova explosion forming the debris of what happened, or did

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it survive the super and Ova explosion? And I'm not

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sure what the current thinking of my learned colleagues is

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on that, but I might ask them because I think

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it's it's a valid question. For a long time, it

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was a puzzle. How does a star that goes sup

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and over? How does it still have a planet in

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its retinue?

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But we're assuming that it would destroy the planet, but

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it might mess it up a bit, but the rockets

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still be there, wouldn't.

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Well, when you think of the energy that goes into

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a super and over a super and over, when it said,

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its peak is brighter usually than the rest of its

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host galaxy, So there's huge amounts of energy there, and

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a lot of that's optical energy visible light energy. But

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there are shock waves that we see. Shockwaves will be

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disastrous for a planet. So my guess is it's still

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not well understood how a planet can survive something like that.

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Yeah, what what effect would those those I don't know

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what what do you call them that come out of a.

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Puls neutron star or the or the the the beams

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of radiation you mean, of course, by the fields.

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So that in itself would be just yep, yeap horrific.

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Yeah, that's right, you'd think so, because they're very powerful.

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That's what we see when we see a pulse pulsar.

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See the flash of flashlight, beams of energy. Yeah, not

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somewhere you want to be really, No, it's hard to

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imagine that there might be life on some of these

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pulsar planets.

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Yeah, and do we know how how many planets we've

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discovered that have sort of managed to survive in this environment?

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Wouldn't mean I'm.

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Sure we do. I'd have to check it out. I

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don't know the number offhand, but I'm sure with your

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adept fingering, you could very quickly tell me how many

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planets are in orbit around pulsars.

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Yes, I'm going to do that now. Meanwhile, wax And

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the answer is the answery isn't big As early as

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this year, between six and eight planets have been confirmed

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orbiting pulsars. That suggests the survival rate is pretty pretty low.

218
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Yes, it does. On the other hand, right, you know,

219
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stars that go super and over and create a pulse

220
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are have got very short lives. Their lives times are

221
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measured in tens of millions of years rather than tens

222
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of billions of years, like our Sun is probably ten

223
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billion years total lifetime. So that's you know, for a

224
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planet to have time to call less properly and form

225
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and do all the things that planets do in their infancy,

226
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it's not very long if you've got a looming explode

227
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on your doorstep.

228
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Absolutely, yes, thankfully, we don't live in that kind of environment.

229
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We know.

230
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That's although although that famous old story keeps popping up,

231
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and I saw it again the other day about the

232
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impending explosion of beetlejuice, and you know, we don't want

233
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to be in the way of that.

234
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We don't know it's it's about seven hundred light years away,

235
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so it's survivable. But yeah, well good, yeah, we don't

236
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really want to be on the on the beetle juice

237
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side of the Earth when it goes off because of all.

238
00:14:36.200 --> 00:14:41.000
Exactly. But you know, if you read the popular press,

239
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it's going to happen next week. But it could be

240
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you know, tens or maybe one hundred thousand years or

241
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something like that, couldn't it.

242
00:14:51.840 --> 00:14:55.159
It's certainly people are talking about thousands of years. That's correct.

243
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Yes, yeah, okay, thank you, Hazel. Hopefully that sorted out

244
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your question. Thanks for sending it in, and please send

245
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us another one when it pops into your head. This

246
00:15:06.399 --> 00:15:09.960
is space nuts. Andrew Dunkley here with Professor Fred Watson.

247
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We choose to go to the moon and this decay

248
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and do the other thing not because they are easy,

249
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but because.

250
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They are are nuts. Okay, Fred, we have an audio question.

251
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Let's hear from David.

252
00:15:28.279 --> 00:15:31.240
Good day. David here from the Sunshine Coast, longtime listener.

253
00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:34.519
Fairly short question today. I see that you were looking

254
00:15:34.519 --> 00:15:39.759
for phone in questions. Just wondering what we've learned with

255
00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:43.639
regard to the material that came back from Benu. I

256
00:15:43.639 --> 00:15:45.679
haven't heard a lot in the mainstream media at all.

257
00:15:45.960 --> 00:15:47.960
It's been quite some time, and I know they had

258
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trouble dealing with the sample when it first came back.

259
00:15:51.240 --> 00:15:53.399
Just wondering if you could fill us in. Thanks very much,

260
00:15:53.919 --> 00:15:56.120
keep up with a great show a La.

261
00:15:56.240 --> 00:16:00.960
Thank you very much, and we'll see you later. To David. Yeah, Benu.

262
00:16:01.039 --> 00:16:03.240
It's funny that the question should turn up when it does,

263
00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:06.360
because I think Bena has just got back into the news,

264
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has it not.

265
00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:10.840
Yes, that's right. There's a really interesting story which came

266
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out this week in the proceedings of the National Academy

267
00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:19.519
of Science in the United States. And because this is

268
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a press release, it means I can read from it

269
00:16:22.279 --> 00:16:26.480
with impunity, and so it introduces an issue very well.

270
00:16:26.600 --> 00:16:30.679
Scientists studying samples from the asteroid Benu have uncovered a

271
00:16:30.759 --> 00:16:35.519
surprisingly complex chemical landscape at the tiniest scales. A new

272
00:16:35.639 --> 00:16:39.840
study shows that at an extremely small scale, organic material

273
00:16:40.360 --> 00:16:44.759
and minerals inside the asteroid Benu are organized into three

274
00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:50.159
clearly different chemical groupings. These patterns provide important clues about

275
00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:55.240
how liquid water once altered the atmosphere. The asteroid Benu

276
00:16:55.399 --> 00:16:58.519
is a carbon rich asteroid located relatively close to the Earth.

277
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It formed from fragments left ba behind after its original

278
00:17:01.720 --> 00:17:05.559
parent body broke apart. Because the samples return from Benu

279
00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:08.799
have not been exposed to Earth's atmosphere, or whether they

280
00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:12.960
offer a rare, untouched record of how water, minerals and

281
00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:16.599
organic compounds interacted in the early Solar System. So it's

282
00:17:16.640 --> 00:17:22.480
a great story and it comes from scientists I think

283
00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:26.079
in the US. I'm not sure. Actually, that's a good question.

284
00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:29.960
Where are these scientists from. We might answer that during

285
00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:34.440
the talk, but yes, remembering Benu. Benu is an asteroid

286
00:17:34.519 --> 00:17:39.319
visited by the spacecraft or Serius Rex, which had a

287
00:17:39.359 --> 00:17:43.119
marvelous mechanism on board called tag SAM, the touch and

288
00:17:43.160 --> 00:17:48.920
go sample acquisition mechanism, which basically sank the spacecraft onto

289
00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:52.720
the asteroid surface and let it grab some of the soil.

290
00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:56.000
Benu is a rubble pile. It's shaped very much like

291
00:17:56.039 --> 00:17:58.319
two cones and to end, a typical shape for a

292
00:17:58.359 --> 00:18:01.680
rubble pile asteroid. So what they grabbed was quite a

293
00:18:01.720 --> 00:18:06.000
lot of material. I think it was fair. Remember, only

294
00:18:06.279 --> 00:18:08.880
sixty grams comes into mind. That might not be the number,

295
00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:12.680
but it's something like that a significant amount. So asteroid

296
00:18:12.759 --> 00:18:16.200
Benu is very much in the headlines a lot of

297
00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:24.400
interesting stuff. The paper that reveals these results is called

298
00:18:24.519 --> 00:18:31.640
Nanoscale Infrared Spectroscopy reveals complex organic mineral assemblages in asteroid Benu.

299
00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:34.480
So that seems to be the crucial aspect of this,

300
00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:39.640
not the minerals and organic or carbon containing molecules that

301
00:18:39.759 --> 00:18:42.640
are there, but the fact that they're organized in such

302
00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:47.480
a way that they have been subjected to water related processes,

303
00:18:47.799 --> 00:18:54.839
and that means basically liquid water. It's quite extraordinary. Once again,

304
00:18:54.880 --> 00:18:58.319
reading from the press release, these un't even nanoscale structures

305
00:18:58.799 --> 00:19:03.319
indicate that water not affect Benu in a single uniform way. Instead,

306
00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:07.440
water interacted differently in separate areas, producing a patchwork of

307
00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:12.160
chemical environments across the asteroid. It's almost perastic, isn't it.

308
00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:17.400
It is? It is from my research. The sample return

309
00:19:17.640 --> 00:19:20.880
was one hundred and twenty one point six grams of material.

310
00:19:21.559 --> 00:19:23.759
There you go, four point two and a half right,

311
00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:32.319
four point you're right. The authors are from the United States,

312
00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:40.359
places like the Department of Geosciences, Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory,

313
00:19:40.920 --> 00:19:45.839
et cetera. So yes, definitely a US base based study

314
00:19:45.880 --> 00:19:51.640
that has been released on the latest from asteroid Benu.

315
00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:55.400
I'm just trying to remember where that sample landed. Was

316
00:19:55.400 --> 00:19:57.480
that the one that landed in Australia or was that

317
00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:02.119
another one that was that was Japanese mission, wasn't it so?

318
00:20:02.359 --> 00:20:05.599
Benu's sample serious Rex is the spacecraft which I think

319
00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:07.960
is on its way might be on its way to

320
00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:10.519
a pofice. It's been redirected. I can't remember where it's

321
00:20:10.519 --> 00:20:13.440
going though. What it did was drop to capsule which

322
00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:18.640
has the which has the samples in it, and they

323
00:20:18.759 --> 00:20:22.640
landed in Utah. That's where the landing site was. Our

324
00:20:22.759 --> 00:20:25.720
samples that came to Australia are from the two Higabusa missions,

325
00:20:25.720 --> 00:20:29.039
the two Japanese as missions.

326
00:20:29.559 --> 00:20:31.960
Yeah, and you're right, it's headed for a pofice.

327
00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:33.559
Good, I thought it.

328
00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:36.680
They refer to it as a mission extension to study

329
00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:41.319
an area of asteroid and it should arrive in April

330
00:20:41.359 --> 00:20:46.279
of twenty twenty nine. So they are extraordinarily long missions,

331
00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:48.359
aren't they. When you when you're out there in there

332
00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:53.480
in the nether regions of the Solar System, that's right.

333
00:20:53.359 --> 00:20:56.079
It's you know, that's just the way space works. You

334
00:20:57.000 --> 00:20:59.839
kind of tied tied up with gravity and time, and

335
00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:02.559
you can't really do much about either of those two things.

336
00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:06.000
Oh you can in a science fiction story. It's amazing

337
00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:10.799
what you can do in a science fiction And I

338
00:21:10.880 --> 00:21:13.599
keep saying it a lot of science fiction has turned

339
00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:18.359
into reality over the years, so you know, you never know.

340
00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:21.920
In fact, I can't remember what the problem was, but

341
00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:27.839
they did, actually, not so long ago, get science fiction

342
00:21:27.880 --> 00:21:30.920
writers together. I don't know what was NASA or someone

343
00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:33.279
else to try and solve a problem that they couldn't

344
00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:35.440
get their heads around us. So if the science fiction

345
00:21:35.559 --> 00:21:38.200
community could come up with an answer for them. I

346
00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:40.799
can't remember any more about it than that, and I

347
00:21:40.839 --> 00:21:44.079
wish I could, because the story fascinated me. They never

348
00:21:44.119 --> 00:21:52.359
called me Fred, obviously. I would think being the best

349
00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:55.160
selling author of one or two copies that have been

350
00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:57.640
sold over the years, that I would be the go

351
00:21:57.720 --> 00:22:03.880
to guy. Not the case. Not the case. Have we

352
00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:05.119
finished answering that question.

353
00:22:06.759 --> 00:22:10.079
Yes, basically there's a lot going on, you know. I

354
00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:12.359
urged David just to check it out on the web.

355
00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:16.960
There's quite a lot of stuff on Ben. It's been interesting.

356
00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:21.000
I've noticed over the last few weeks things popping out,

357
00:22:21.079 --> 00:22:24.640
particularly about the minerals which have been water affected, which

358
00:22:24.680 --> 00:22:27.200
in itself tells you something about where it's come from,

359
00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:28.640
somewhere where there was liquid water.

360
00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:35.799
That is fascinating. Yeah, and yes, that paper was published

361
00:22:35.839 --> 00:22:39.519
on Science Daily dot com, David, if you want to

362
00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:42.519
check it out, and it was published. The paper was

363
00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:46.799
published on the thirty first of March, an auspicious day

364
00:22:46.799 --> 00:22:51.960
in history. Fred, I must say, yes, a certain non

365
00:22:51.960 --> 00:22:57.279
successful science fiction writer was born on that day, Tuesday.

366
00:22:57.640 --> 00:23:00.519
So yes, yesterday was yesterday our time.

367
00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:04.279
Yeah, yeah, so that was your sixty fourth Is that right?

368
00:23:04.359 --> 00:23:07.839
Yes, I can. I can officially play that Beatles song now.

369
00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:12.039
Good on ye. I was just about to say that. Yeah,

370
00:23:12.119 --> 00:23:15.599
it's okay, yeah, good old pull McCartney. You hit the

371
00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:16.400
nail on the head.

372
00:23:16.519 --> 00:23:18.920
Yeah. I watched his doco the other day. They didn't.

373
00:23:19.119 --> 00:23:22.640
I've then released a docco about him. Gosh, it's amazing

374
00:23:22.759 --> 00:23:26.720
what I didn't know about him that's come out now.

375
00:23:26.759 --> 00:23:31.640
It's yeah, quite incredible. But that's a different story, completely

376
00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:36.920
different story. But yeah, sixty four. Can't believe it. Anyway.

377
00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:38.880
When I told my grandchildren I was sixty four, they

378
00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:40.759
looked at me and said, and you're still alive?

379
00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:41.960
N They didn't.

380
00:23:44.200 --> 00:23:46.680
I said, well, hang on a minute, you should meet Fred. No,

381
00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:47.799
I didn't say that either.

382
00:23:49.240 --> 00:23:51.200
I remember sixty four just about.

383
00:23:55.279 --> 00:23:58.759
Ah, all right, let's move on, Thank you, David. Yeah,

384
00:23:58.799 --> 00:24:02.400
good news about Benue and they've just published that paper

385
00:24:02.440 --> 00:24:07.480
on my birthday. Our final question comes from Keith. Hello, gentlemen,

386
00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:10.119
Well you've got that wrong straight away. This is Keith

387
00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:13.720
from Washington State, USA. This is my first time asking

388
00:24:13.720 --> 00:24:15.440
a question. We've had a couple of newbies on the

389
00:24:15.440 --> 00:24:19.880
show today. Looking forward to your explanation. From what I understand,

390
00:24:19.960 --> 00:24:24.559
new Trino's travel vast distances through space and even from

391
00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:28.960
our own son, they pass through our bodies every second

392
00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:32.640
and easily through the Earth. But do they travel straight

393
00:24:32.839 --> 00:24:36.319
through a black hole? Or are they captured by it?

394
00:24:36.599 --> 00:24:39.039
Appreciate you guys, and love the podcast. Look forward to

395
00:24:39.119 --> 00:24:42.119
every episode. Thank you, Keith. Hope all is well in

396
00:24:42.319 --> 00:24:45.839
Washington State. That's on the northwest corner of the United States.

397
00:24:45.880 --> 00:24:51.079
Seattle's in Washington State. I love Seattle, went They're a

398
00:24:51.079 --> 00:24:56.039
a couple of years ago. Now, terrific place, terrific current

399
00:24:56.079 --> 00:25:01.119
Super Bowl champions, Seahawks. I knew you'd be interested in

400
00:25:01.160 --> 00:25:01.559
that thread.

401
00:25:02.279 --> 00:25:04.720
Keep talking because I'm just googling this.

402
00:25:05.960 --> 00:25:07.880
I kind of figured I needed to pad, but I

403
00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:12.279
didn't pad long enough. Yes, I'm out of practice. Out

404
00:25:12.359 --> 00:25:15.960
of practice. I haven't been on radio for two years now,

405
00:25:16.039 --> 00:25:18.559
so I don't need to add lib like I used to.

406
00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:21.359
It used to be really funny when something went horribly

407
00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:23.240
wrong and you knew you had to fix it while

408
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:26.400
you were talking. And have you ever tried to thread

409
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:29.960
a tape on a real reel recorder while you're talking

410
00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:34.000
to an audience and making sense of what you're saying

411
00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:37.359
and you don't even know what it's Yeah, gosh, it

412
00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:40.440
can be a fun moment. I miss those days so much.

413
00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:42.799
Are you?

414
00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:43.640
Are you good now?

415
00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:49.400
Yes? I just just you put conjured up an entirely

416
00:25:49.400 --> 00:25:52.200
different picture in my head of you threading a real

417
00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:55.319
to real recorder, which I used to remember. Yeah, So

418
00:25:55.400 --> 00:25:57.519
on the one piece of kit that I'd like that

419
00:25:57.559 --> 00:25:59.640
I don't have is a real to real machine.

420
00:25:59.799 --> 00:26:02.039
Could steal one for you, And I know I know

421
00:26:02.119 --> 00:26:05.480
a guy in town who's got one, and if I

422
00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:07.400
took it, he wouldn't notice for a few years.

423
00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:13.480
Now, tell me more offline, Yes I will.

424
00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:20.359
Yes, morning, Richard. But look what we're talking about.

425
00:26:20.440 --> 00:26:20.720
Radio.

426
00:26:21.519 --> 00:26:24.039
It's changed so much because it's all digital now, so

427
00:26:24.920 --> 00:26:30.400
you don't really all those those what do you call

428
00:26:30.440 --> 00:26:34.400
them skills that you developed in radio, like like cut

429
00:26:34.440 --> 00:26:40.599
splicing tape and drop editing and all of those special talents,

430
00:26:40.599 --> 00:26:43.599
they're gone. They're just gone. If you gave someone a

431
00:26:43.720 --> 00:26:46.519
real the real tape, and said, can you just edit

432
00:26:46.599 --> 00:26:49.599
that piece out for me, here's a razor blade, they go.

433
00:26:50.160 --> 00:26:57.119
What remember to make the cut diagonally? Yes, yes, the

434
00:26:57.160 --> 00:26:58.359
sound quality.

435
00:26:58.160 --> 00:27:02.720
Exactly, Yeah, that's how it works. In fact, they were

436
00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:06.680
slicing block. The splicing block slots in it so you

437
00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:09.319
could do the diagonal cut. And it was made in

438
00:27:09.319 --> 00:27:12.839
a way so that the tape actually just sat in

439
00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:17.000
there without folding up or rolling around or slipping. Was

440
00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:21.279
brilliantly made piece of kit. As Fred would say, to

441
00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:25.799
keep the tape still. Look all this, all this, all

442
00:27:25.799 --> 00:27:31.160
these memories. I think enough now, Fred, Yeah.

443
00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:34.799
I'm sure. That's a question. The tape splicing block. It's

444
00:27:34.839 --> 00:27:36.480
how do you splice neutrinos?

445
00:27:36.519 --> 00:27:40.039
That's the question. Why do they spice? Can they splice

446
00:27:40.119 --> 00:27:42.119
a black hole? That's that's the question.

447
00:27:43.240 --> 00:27:46.000
That's the worst segue I think we've ever made. But

448
00:27:46.039 --> 00:27:48.279
that will do. It's just good to see it gets

449
00:27:49.559 --> 00:27:53.680
is all we aim for. But neutrinos are indeed affected

450
00:27:53.720 --> 00:27:59.480
by gravity, as you'd expect because they're particles, they're subatomic particles,

451
00:27:59.559 --> 00:28:03.519
and so Once a neutrino crosses the event horizon, then

452
00:28:03.559 --> 00:28:06.319
it's doomed. It will be absorbed by the black hole,

453
00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:12.160
just like lights. Basically, they hardly interact with normal matter

454
00:28:12.920 --> 00:28:17.759
exactly as Keith mentions, but they do feel the force

455
00:28:17.799 --> 00:28:22.839
of gravity or the what's base of gravity, and they

456
00:28:22.920 --> 00:28:25.880
just get pulled in in the same way as as

457
00:28:26.599 --> 00:28:31.599
any other particle. So the answer is yes, and it's

458
00:28:32.680 --> 00:28:35.759
you know, it's a really interesting sub atomic particle. We

459
00:28:35.839 --> 00:28:38.359
used to think for a while that maybe neutrino's made

460
00:28:38.440 --> 00:28:41.559
up the dark matter of the universe, but it turns

461
00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:43.880
out from other studies that they don't have enough mass

462
00:28:43.960 --> 00:28:47.680
to do that, so they're not the culprits. But there

463
00:28:47.680 --> 00:28:52.359
are a lot of them. I think David mentioned, sorry Keith,

464
00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:56.920
I Beggy pad mentioned the nutrient the sun, so the neutrinos.

465
00:28:57.680 --> 00:29:01.200
For a long time that was there was a problem there.

466
00:29:01.240 --> 00:29:03.920
I think it was that we didn't see enough neutrinos

467
00:29:04.559 --> 00:29:08.079
coming from the Sun to agree with theory, and that

468
00:29:08.240 --> 00:29:10.359
was called the soul and neutrino problem. I think that

469
00:29:10.440 --> 00:29:12.519
was the way around it was. But I believe that

470
00:29:12.559 --> 00:29:19.200
has now been basically solved by both observational and theoretical astronomers.

471
00:29:19.400 --> 00:29:22.200
I should go down a rabbit hole and chase all that,

472
00:29:22.319 --> 00:29:27.079
because my knowledge of neutrinos is really a little bit sad.

473
00:29:28.759 --> 00:29:34.680
It does have the one joke that I remember about neutrinos,

474
00:29:35.400 --> 00:29:37.640
which is probably not worth relating.

475
00:29:38.279 --> 00:29:39.440
Oh no, you've got to say it.

476
00:29:40.680 --> 00:29:40.880
Well.

477
00:29:40.920 --> 00:29:44.000
It was when there was this idea that the large

478
00:29:44.039 --> 00:29:47.960
hadron Collida had generated a neutrino that turned up as

479
00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:53.880
a detector in Grand Sasso in Italy sooner than it

480
00:29:53.920 --> 00:29:56.759
would have done if it had not been traveling less

481
00:29:56.799 --> 00:29:59.240
than the speed of light, and so it became known

482
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:02.839
as the faster than like neutrino. In the end, it

483
00:30:02.920 --> 00:30:06.240
was debunked. They found it was due to a loose

484
00:30:06.279 --> 00:30:09.920
connection in the detector, which led to the director of

485
00:30:09.960 --> 00:30:14.799
Grant Sassa resigning. Actually was ashamed of what his institution

486
00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:15.440
had done.

487
00:30:15.799 --> 00:30:16.839
I remember that now.

488
00:30:17.799 --> 00:30:21.680
But the joke is. The joke is, I'm sorry, we

489
00:30:21.720 --> 00:30:25.079
don't allow faster than night light neutrino's into our bar.

490
00:30:25.799 --> 00:30:28.559
A faster than light neutrino walked into a bar. That's

491
00:30:28.599 --> 00:30:29.039
the joke.

492
00:30:31.559 --> 00:30:34.559
I get it. That's pretty good though.

493
00:30:35.119 --> 00:30:36.559
I think it's a good one too. I wish it

494
00:30:36.680 --> 00:30:37.039
was mine.

495
00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:41.720
But it's pretty good. But what I find difficult to

496
00:30:41.720 --> 00:30:44.119
get my head around is that these things passed through

497
00:30:44.119 --> 00:30:44.680
the planet.

498
00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:47.720
I mean, yes they do. Oh yeah, I don't notice

499
00:30:47.759 --> 00:30:51.799
the planet at all. Yeah, but there is a detector.

500
00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:54.599
There's the ice cube detector down in Antarctica. This is

501
00:30:55.319 --> 00:30:57.720
a cube of ice and one killer meter cube of

502
00:30:57.720 --> 00:31:02.799
ice which has got it's basically not festooned so much

503
00:31:02.839 --> 00:31:08.000
as impregnated with many, many optical detectors that would sense

504
00:31:08.039 --> 00:31:13.240
the flash of light. If a neutrino actually did collide

505
00:31:13.279 --> 00:31:17.319
and interact with a normal particle, then you'd get a

506
00:31:17.319 --> 00:31:21.000
flash of light which it will be detectable in ice cube.

507
00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:22.680
And I think they've had detections as well.

508
00:31:23.079 --> 00:31:29.279
Oh interesting, fascinating even all right, Keith, I think we

509
00:31:29.359 --> 00:31:30.880
covered it. Did we cover it?

510
00:31:32.079 --> 00:31:34.759
Well? We answered the question, but I think that was

511
00:31:34.759 --> 00:31:36.200
a value added question, Keith.

512
00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:38.720
Yes, it was. Got lots of bonus material in there,

513
00:31:38.799 --> 00:31:43.519
probably boring is you know whatever, an old sock, But

514
00:31:45.400 --> 00:31:48.480
we got there in the end. Thank you, Kate, Thank

515
00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:50.720
you everybody who sent questions in. If you do have

516
00:31:50.839 --> 00:31:53.559
questions for us, please go to our website and send

517
00:31:53.559 --> 00:31:56.319
them in on the ask Me anything tab at the top.

518
00:31:56.640 --> 00:32:01.240
Just click the letters and there's an interface there where

519
00:32:01.240 --> 00:32:04.880
you can send us text and audio questions. Please remember

520
00:32:04.920 --> 00:32:06.359
to tell us who you are and where you're from,

521
00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:09.880
and we'll do our very best to answer them all.

522
00:32:10.880 --> 00:32:13.759
And again we're just yeah, we're on the cusp of

523
00:32:13.799 --> 00:32:15.440
not quite having enough questions. It's got a lot of

524
00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:18.359
text questions, but audio questions are few and far between

525
00:32:18.440 --> 00:32:22.599
for some reason, but who knows. Get him into us.

526
00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:25.960
We'd love to hear from you. We love all these voices,

527
00:32:26.079 --> 00:32:28.839
all the different people from around the world. It's fantastic

528
00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:33.359
and thank you Fred, as always, it's been a great pleasure.

529
00:32:34.039 --> 00:32:36.599
It has, indeed, and good to talk to you this

530
00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:38.799
week and hopefully we'll do it again next week.

531
00:32:39.440 --> 00:32:41.400
Yes indeed, and I'll get back to you on that

532
00:32:41.480 --> 00:32:46.519
free reel to real tape record. Fred Nudge Nudge Wing

533
00:32:46.599 --> 00:32:50.319
Wing professor Fred Watson, astronomer at large part of the

534
00:32:50.319 --> 00:32:53.599
team here on the space and that's podcast And thanks

535
00:32:53.640 --> 00:32:56.160
to h you in the studio who couldn't be with

536
00:32:56.240 --> 00:32:58.559
us today. Is a bit slow. He's an old treno

537
00:32:59.319 --> 00:33:04.759
and you can't even get through a door. And from

538
00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:08.559
me Andrew Duncley, thanks for your company. We'll see see

539
00:33:08.599 --> 00:33:11.200
you on the next episode of Space Nuts. Bye bye.

540
00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:17.759
You'll be listening to the Space Nuts podcast available at

541
00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:23.319
Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or your favorite podcast player. You

542
00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:26.640
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543
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