Nov. 25, 2024
#472: Titan's Unique Atmosphere, Tidal Locking Insights & Triton's Cosmic Journey
Space Nuts #472 Q&A Edition: Titan's Mysteries and Cosmic Curiosities
Join Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson in this intriguing Q&A episode of Space Nuts, where they delve into the mysteries of our solar system and beyond, addressing...
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RSS Feed Space Nuts #472 Q&A Edition: Titan's Mysteries and Cosmic Curiosities
Join Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson in this intriguing Q&A episode of Space Nuts, where they delve into the mysteries of our solar system and beyond, addressing questions from their curious audience. From the unique atmosphere of Titan to the hypothetical existence of Planet Nine, this episode is filled with captivating discussions and astronomical insights.
Episode Highlights:
- Titan's Atmospheric Enigma: Explore the origins of Titan's thick nitrogen atmosphere and its ability to retain it, unlike Mars. Discover the role of comets and organic chemistry in shaping this unique moon's environment.
- Tidal Locking Explained: Understand the gravitational phenomenon of tidal locking and why proximity and size matter. Learn about the differences in how natural and man-made satellites maintain their orientation.
- Planet Nine Hypothesis: Dive into a speculative theory about Planet Nine and its potential impact on Uranus and Mercury. Discuss the ongoing search for this elusive celestial body.
- Triton's Dwarf Planet Status: Uncover the history of Neptune's moon Triton and its possible past as a dwarf planet. Examine the characteristics that make Triton a fascinating world in its own right.
- Distinguishing Doppler Effects: Differentiate between Doppler shifts caused by relative motion and the redshift due to the universe's expansion. Explore how these phenomena are used to study cosmic objects.
For more Space Nuts, including our continually updating newsfeed and to listen to all our episodes, visit our website. Follow us on social media at SpaceNutsPod on facebook, X, YouTube, Tumblr, Instagram, and TikTok. We love engaging with our community, so be sure to drop us a message or comment on your favourite platform.
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Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.
00:00 - This is a Q and A episode and we will be doing some homework
01:17 - How come Titan can retain an atmosphere when Mars cannot
07:23 - Why is tidal locking a function of proximity of bound objects
11:00 - Ash Brisbane proposes that Planet Nine once existed on elliptical orbit
14:43 - Nigel from Brisbane Australia asks hypothetical question about Neptune's Triton
18:59 - Triton may have been formed much further out in the solar system
21:17 - Nigel asks where the word asteroid came from
23:24 - Fred answers question from Robert McCowan about Doppler effect
✍️ Episode References
Kelly Miller
https://www.swri.org
Space.com article
https://www.space.com/
saturn-moon-titan-makes-own-atmosphere.html
3--- Southwest Research Institute
https://www.swri.org
iHeartRadio
https://www.iheart.com
Apple Podcasts
https://www.apple.com/apple-podcasts/
Spotify
https://www.spotify.com
bitesz.com
https://www.bitesz.com
WEBVTT
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Hello again. This is Space Nuts.
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See I told you I'll be back.
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Andrew Dunkley here, great, they have your company, and this
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is a Q and A episode and we will be
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doing some homework. We had a question last time from
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Yenst about why Titan has an atmosphere like it does,
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and Fred's done his homework.
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So we'll tell you all about it. Yenst.
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We're going to look at tidal Locke, a new theory
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about planet planet nine coming from one of our audience members,
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and we're going to talk about something we've not talked
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about much, but it wrote to us and said, you
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don't talk about me. So we're going to look at Triton,
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which is the moon of Neptune, and the use of Doppler.
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We'll talk about all of that through questions on this
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episode of Space.
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Nuts fifteen second Channel ten nine ignition Space Nuts or
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three two Space and I reported Neil Good and the
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man on this particular mission is Professor Fred Watson, astronomer
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at LA tellofred Illo.
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Andrew, it's good to join.
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You from a slightly different location from normal, but that's fine.
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Yes, let's get straight into it because there is a
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fair bit on the agenda. We're going to revisit a
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question from last week which came from Sweden. Yeah, it
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was YenS To who was asking about Titan's atmosphere. What
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we might do is just play yenst question. I gets
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how to say yenst question again and then we can
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fill in the blanks.
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Hello, space nuts, This is YenS from the Forest of
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Dulston at Sweden. As we all know, Saturn's moon Titan
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is a very special place. So here's my question. How
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did Titan become so special? How did it accumulate this
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sick night to Jenna atmosphere and not it's meeting and eating.
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There are dozens of months of auto planets, only Titan
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has an atmosphere. What is it about Titan that made
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it become different from all the other moons? And another
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related question. It is often said that Mars is too
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small to retain an atmosphere in the long term. The
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Titan is even smaller. How came Titan carry ten an
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atmosphere when Mars cannot? Thanks very great show.
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Thanks to Angst. We did determine that Mars probably lost
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its atmosphere because of its proximity to the Sun, and
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it was all blown off by the solar winds, But
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we didn't determine why Titan might have the unusual atmosphere
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that it has and how it manages to retain that. Well,
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it probably retains it because it's far enough from the
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Sun not to be as significantly affected as Mars was.
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But how is it that it's got such a strange atmosphere.
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That's the pace of the puzzle we needed to do
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some homework on for it.
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Yeah, that's right, and it's actually not that hard to
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find some interesting theories about why sorry, yes, why Titan?
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Why Titan has a thick atmosphere? And various pieces of
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work have been done on this. The one that I
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think really puts it most cogently is a paper that
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was actually published in January twenty nineteen, and that was
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written by.
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A group of.
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Scientists led by Kelly Miller, who's at the Southwest Research
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Institute in Boulder, Colorado, one of the big centers for planetary.
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Studies in the USA.
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And Kelly says, and I'm quoting here, a lot of
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organic chemistry is no doubt happening on Titan. So it's
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an undeniable source of curiosity because Titan is the only
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moon in our Solar system with a substantial atmosphere. Scientists
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have wandered for a long time what its source was.
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The main theory has been that ammonia ice from comets
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was converted by impacts or photochemistry into nitrogen to form
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Titan's atmosphere. While that might still be an important process,
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it neglects the effects of what we now know is
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a very substantial portion of comets complex organic material. So
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what Kelly is saying there is that, yes, comets are
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mostly made of ice, but there is a significant proportion
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of them that are the organic chemicals that we form
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the building blocks of life here on Earth, the carbon
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containing chemicals. And so the theory is that those complex
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molecules have basically landed from comets and interacted with the
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with the surface of Titan. So you've got the sort
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of nitrogen atmosphere on Titan, which also has methane ethane
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in it as well. And so stuff that would land
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from comets, these complex carbon containing molecules basically would would
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react with the stuff that's already there. And so another
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comet comment from Kelly Miller comets and primitive bodies in
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the outer Solar System are really interesting because they're thought
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to be left over building blocks of the Solar System.
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These those small bodies could be incorporated into larger bodies
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like Titan, and the dense, organic, rich rocky material could
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be found in its core. And that if you have
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these organic chemicals that have found their way into the
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core of Titan, that's the underlying rock that sits under
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the ocean, that sits under the ice, then you've got
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a possible source of the gases that we see in
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Titan's atmosphere. Now, so what we're talking about here is
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an atmosphere that's been replenished over time.
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Which is essentially.
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You know why you have a body that's got an
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atmosphere where you might not expect it to have. So
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when YenS thinks about this a bit more, maybe have
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a look at that work. Kelly Miller from Southwest Research Institute.
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There is actually a nice space dot Com article that
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reports it dating from January twenty six to twenty nineteen.
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Saturn's biggest moon, Titan, may bake its own atmosphere.
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So it's just like cooking a cake in the oven.
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Everything else creates a gas that.
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I think that's the bottom line Andrew.
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Yes clever, all right, they go against Have a look
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at that article from space dot Com if you want
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to read more about it. But that's basically the theory
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behind Titan's atmosphere. Now moving on, we have got a
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question from Ken. Ken comes from Maruci door in Queensland.
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I've got a few Queenslanders sent us in questions for
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this week. Hi Fred and Andrew. Why is title locking
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a function of proximity of the bound objects? Plus do
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man made satellites that need to point antennas, et cetera
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to Earth automatically tidally lock or do they need initial
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and ongoing manipulation to do so? Thanks Ken, so double whammy.
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Why is title locking a function of proximity of bound objects?
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So it is a gravitational phenomenon, but in order for
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it to work, you've got to have a reasonably sizeable object.
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So the whole thing about tides, Andrew, is that they're
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caused by or what you might call tidal disruption, things
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that are caused by a tidal effect. The tidal phenomenon
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relies on one side of an object feeling a different
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amount of gravity from the other side, and so, for example,
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in the case.
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Of the Earth.
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The far side of the Earth feels less gravity from
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the Moon than the near side does, and so that
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raises the tides on the Earth. And that process essentially
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involves a breaking phenomenon, because as the Earth trying to rotate,
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it's got this tidal pull from the Moon, and that's
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actually slowing down the Earth's rotation. Now, the converse has
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been true over billions of years. In fact, probably not
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that many. In fact, more like millions of years. The
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Moon felt the same thing.
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One side of it was.
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Feeling more of the pool from the Earth than the
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other side, and so the breaking effect was felt and
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the moon's rotation slowed down until it was actually locked
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to be always facing the same side to the Earth. Now,
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spacecraft are too small for that phenomenon, you're.
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Going to say, I'll bet you that the problem is
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the size of an object would be a major ef factor.
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So Ken the second part of Ken's question is correct,
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Do they need initial and ongoing manipulation to point antennas
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to the Earth, And the answer is yes, they are directed,
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you know, using thrusters to point in the direction that
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they're meant to. It doesn't happen by tidal locking. It's
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a nice idea, but but they're too small for the
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It would.
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It would certainly simplify things, wouldn't then if that could happen,
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it wouldn't make it easier.
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You just put it up there and it turns on
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its own to face the Earth. But that's not it works.
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And now moon is not the only thing in the
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Solar System that's tidally locked, is it. There's there's other
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moons that are tidally locked their air respective planets, and
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I think some of it is mercury tidally locked to
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the Sun.
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It's it's it's it's resonant. It's it's not exactly a lock,
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but it's a similar process. So it's resonant, as is venus.
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Okay, Steve, so yes, Ken, It's yes, it's a it's
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a function of size. Size matters apparently when it comes
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to tidal locking.
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Good to hear from you.
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Thanks to your question. Okay, we've tacked all for crystal
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space nuts. Our next question comes from another Queenslander.
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His name is Ants.
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Got a bit of a what if question for you
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to wrap thinking here around.
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I'll propose that planet.
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Nourrin once did exist out there in the depth of
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the Solar System on Tyler olypical all but it came
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in and crossed paths. But the one and only ran Us,
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giving us smack on the way past delment Over in
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the process loses it's out of shell, making its size
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it is now and it lost a lot of its
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own momentum, making it drop into the inner Solar System
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and gets captured by the Sun. And yeah, we now
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call it planet Mercury. What do you think?
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All right, so guys step up to work.
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Yeah, thinks that I think there's a bit of science
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fiction in that one, only because I suspect that we
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know this something in the far reaches of the Solar
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System that's still impacting on the objects out there, and
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we haven't yet discovered what it is. But the mathematics
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says there is something. Therefore, if it's a planet, it's
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not Mercury. Would that be a fair assessment.
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Yeah, I think you've answered it quite well. I'm very nicely,
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and Jordie agrees with you. You might have heard him
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just yelling in the groove there. So yes, it's the
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the fact that that we've got this alignment of asteroid
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far distant asteroid Transnaptunian object orbits that makes people suspect
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that there is a planetary body in the.
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Depths of the Solar System.
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I think if you you know, if if the scenario
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and it's a complex but nicely elaborated scenario from Ash
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in Brisbane, if that had happened, I think these orbits
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were have now regularized so that the phenomenon would have disappeared.
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You know, if you take play Kine away and I
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think there will be other disruption in the Solar System.
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But I do like the way though the Ash ties
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in the you know, this peculiar orientation of Uranus which
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is on its side with the planet Mercury, which is mysterious.
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We think Mercury was once a bigger object because it's
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got a metal core that is too big for it.
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So we do think there might have been an impact
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there as well. So very nice thinking. Let's wait to
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see whether it becomes mainstream thinking, but I suspect its
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chances are pretty small, and for that you elucidated.
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We can have a bit of a smirk about it.
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But he's been very clever in putting a few things
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together that we know and coming up coming up with
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a theory, and theory is where you start when you're
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trying to solve these astronomical puzzles. So yeah, why not
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throw it out there. Someone might pick up on it
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and go, hang on minute.
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Yeah. What you've got to do, though, is you've absolutely
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got to do the mathematical rigor on it all and
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make sure that all the equations add up and that
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it ties together and it's physically possible. And that's Yes,
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that's where you need people with that sort of background,
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which I don't actually have.
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Not neither is Ash.
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Well, you know, you never know.
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Ash might be.
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Oh, it might be a closet planet to your dynamicis
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that we don't know about.
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Who goes, Yeah, it may be. And I think we're
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overdue for a new song, Ash, come on, we're dropping
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the ball mate, No, a big good one. I like
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he's thinking, thanks Ash. This is Space Nuts Andrew Dunkley
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here with Professor Fred Watson.
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Space Nuts.
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Now. Our next question, Fred comes from another queen's.
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This is Nigel.
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Oh, friend and Andrew. This is Nigel from Brisbane, Australia.
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I have a hypothetical question about Neptune's moon Triton. I
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believe Triton is said to be captured by Neptune. I
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hope I got that right. But what if it wasn't
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captured and it was still orbiting the Sun out on
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