Oct. 24, 2024

#463: Cosmic Collisions, Double Dwarf Discoveries & SpaceX's Stellar Strides

#463: Cosmic Collisions, Double Dwarf Discoveries & SpaceX's Stellar Strides

Space Nuts #463
Join Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson in this intriguing episode of Space Nuts, where they delve into the latest cosmic discoveries and Space industry updates. From the origins of meteorites to the mysteries of brown dwarfs,...

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Space Nuts #463
Join Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson in this intriguing episode of Space Nuts, where they delve into the latest cosmic discoveries and Space industry updates. From the origins of meteorites to the mysteries of brown dwarfs, and the environmental impact of SpaceX's prolific launches, this episode is packed with fascinating insights and stellar discussions.
Episode Highlights:
- Meteorite Origins Uncovered: Discover how scientists have traced the origins of 70% of known meteorites to just three significant events in recent history. Explore the detective work that led to these revelations and what it tells us about our solar system.
- Brown Dwarfs Mystery Solved: Delve into the 30-year mystery of a brown dwarf that turned out to be two. Learn how this discovery reshapes our understanding of these celestial objects and their place in the universe.
- SpaceX's Environmental Impact: Unpack the good news and the challenges facing SpaceX, from their record-breaking launch schedule to the environmental concerns raised by satellite re-entry and rocket emissions.
For more Space Nuts, including our continually updating newsfeed and to listen to all our episodes, visit our website. Follow us on social media at SpaceNutsPod on facebook, X, YouTube, Instagram, Tumblr and TikTok. We love engaging with our community, so be sure to drop us a message or comment on your favourite platform.
For more Space and Astronomy News Podcasts, visit our HQ at www.bitesz.com.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/space-nuts/support.
Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.

 

 

WEBVTT

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Hi there, thanks for joining us.

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This is Space Nuts yet again. My name is Andrew Dunkley,

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your host. It's so good to have your company. Coming

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up on this episode. We've got a lot to get through.

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As I tend to say, some clever work reveals where

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most meteorites come from. Some space scientists have doubled down

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on a brown dwarf mystery.

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What does that mean? Snow white? Snow white and white?

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Know the answer?

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And some good news and some bad.

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News for SpaceX.

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That's all coming up on this episode of Space Nuts.

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Fifteen second is in channel ten nine ignition sequence Space

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Nuts or three two Space Nurts. Can I report it?

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Neils Good?

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Joining me again is Professor Fred what's an astronomer?

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At La Tello? Fred?

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Hi, Andrew, how are you going?

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I'm going that way? Yeah, I'm good. I'm good. At

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the moment, all is well. How are you?

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I'm going that.

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Way too, good thing. We're both going in the same

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direction as it is.

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Yes, you don't want to be going backwards at this

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stage in our lives. It's that's absolutely right, very true,

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unless you could wind back time and get younger and

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yet take back all that knowledge you've got and you

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know I've made the same mistakes over again.

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No, I don't want to do that. Not enough for

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making mistakes.

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You just make different mistakes. I reckon, I think you do. Yeah,

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it's usually the kind of mistakes you make. Is where

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did I put my glasses? I can't remember? Oh yeah,

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and yeah, I've done that. I can't find mine.

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Now I give you a clue.

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Let me just adjust my glasses. And what was the answer?

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Yes, Judy and I have often talked about this and

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look back at some of the mistakes we've made, mainly financial,

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over the years, and we've both said, look, if we

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didn't make those mistakes, other things wouldn't have happened that

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have defined our lives. So, you know, you can't sort

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of dismiss the mistakes because they made other good things happen.

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You've got to think of it that way. So that's

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the only way I could reconcile my past history with

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any kind of satisfaction. Some of the mistakes have resulted

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in some brilliant things.

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Yes, Well, you know, to Err is human and that's

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you know, that's the definition of a human being. We

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make mistakes and hopefully learn from them. We've got to

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learn something now, Fred from some very clever work that's

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been done, and they reckon. They've nailed down around seventy

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percent of the meteorites that we know of coming from

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three basic events in recent history. So that's pretty exciting,

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and I think they extrapolated some more information out they

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can nearly account for ninety percent.

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Of all meteorites. This is quite an amazing story, it is,

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and it starts off with a kind of analysis of

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meteorites because they're not all the same now, and you know,

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the astronomers or planetary scientists, I guess classify them in

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different ways, which is all about their composition. The stony

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meteorites and metallic meteorites.

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They are the two sort of basic.

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Ones, but within those definitions there are different, you know,

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different levels of how stoney they are or how not.

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And I should just say at the outset that the

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metallic ones are actually quite rare, so that the most

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common meteorites that we found are something called well ordinary

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chondrites chondrites C H O, N, D R I T

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e S.

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Looks like chong drites, but it's chondrites usually.

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And they are what make up most of the it's

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tens of thousands of meteorites that are in collections around

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the world.

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I can't remember the exact number, but it's a lot.

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Which have you know, they've been collected by meteorites hunters,

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and of course they're free gifts from the universe, so

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they're always valuable to have because they tell us about

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the makeup of things. Anyway, the most common are these chondrites,

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which are sort of carbonaceous. They're stony objects. But the

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the conundrum is that the when you look at the asteroids,

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and they sit in the asteroid belt principally, and we

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believe that they are the main source of meteorites. So

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there are one or two meteorites actually it's several hundred,

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but a few that come that are known to come

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from the Moon or Mars, or in fact the asteroid Vestor,

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which is actually quite a large member of the asteroid belt,

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the fourth one to be discovered. I think. I think

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six percent of all meteorites come from either the Moon,

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Mars or Vesta. However, as I said, most of them

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are just chondrites. But here's the thing. The asteroid population,

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the chondrites are actually quite rare. They don't dominate the

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asteroid population, and so there is a puzzle there, why

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should all ours be commoner garden chondrites whereas condracts are

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relatively rare when you look at the asteroid belt in general.

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And so what this team it's actually I think three

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different teams of scientists who have produced I think there

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are three papers involved here. And what they've done is

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they've basically looked at the motion of the asteroids in

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the asteroid belt. And you know, one of the wonderful

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things that you and I talk about a lot is

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how predicted predictable gravity is the fact that we can

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we can actually get a really good idea of the

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motions of objects through space tens of thousands or even

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millions of years in the past and the future, because

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gravitation is such a well understood phenomenon, at least at

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the level of objects in the Solar System. And so

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what they've done is they've studied the asteroid belt and

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looked for events in the past that would have brought

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asteroids together, that would have been collisions, and they've essentially

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found some and there are collisions between chondrite asteroids. Ah.

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You know, so it's making sense here that you've got

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a relatively rare population within the asteroid belt, but they're

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the ones that have collided, and they identify I think

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three collisions over the last Actually they go back quite

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a long way. There's one, the most distant one in

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the past, a collision which I think we've talked about already.

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Actually I think we talked about it in a different

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context a few weeks ago. It's about four hundred and

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sixty six million years ago, and we think that would

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have that was a collision that absolutely showered the Earth

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with meteorites and may even have formed a ring around

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the Earth. And I think that's what we've talked about,

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because there's a Massex, you know, there's an ice age

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not long after that, and the thinking is that the

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ring of asteroids around the Earth might have shaded in

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the sun the planet a little bit to reduce the temperature.

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So that's that's the furthest one. But there are other

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collisions that have been identified which are more recently than that.

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And I might read a paragraph, if I may, from

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a very nice piece on this from Sky and Telescope,

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one of the it is astronomy magazines in the world.

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I was addicted to Sky of telescope when I was

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a youngster, and what it says is two collisions involving

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H chondrites. These are two different sorts of condrits H

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and L chondrites, but they're all sort of common garden meteorites.

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Two collisions involving H chondrites occurred so recently that the

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researchers could trace their orbits well enough to date the

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family's origin. This is the family of asteroids that resulted

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from that collision. The older collision occurred seven point six

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million years ago and yielded the family of objects with

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orbits similar to one five eight Coronis. Now one five

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eight Coronis is an asteroid. You remember that asteroids have

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a number, which is the number in the order of discovery,

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and Coronis is the name given by the discoverer, So

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one five eight Coronis. They seem to have come from

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a collision Coronis and it's similar family, a collision seven

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point six million years ago. Reading back again from the

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sky telescope, artic called a younger family dates back to

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an event five point eight million years ago in which

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Coronis underwent another major collision, splitting off the smaller asteroid

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eight three two. Karen and its family, and so you know,

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this is lovely detective work that gives you a picture

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of the dynamics of the asteroid belt that we just

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didn't have before, and gives us a really good understanding

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that that some of this, you know, some of this

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debris that we receive from space really comes from a

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very small number of collisions in the asteroid belt.

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Yeah, it's fascinating, and I'm guessing after reading through the

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article of this, this still has to be peer reviewed.

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The paper is out there to be analyzed and chopped

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up and debated, and uh, you know, others will probably

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study the claims and say, well, hang on, men, but

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they seem pretty confident.

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Yeah they do.

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I think these are pretty Yeah.

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There are two Nature papers involved, so obviously one of

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the leading scientific journals in the world. There's a lot

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of detail to this. It's a story with many twists

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and ins and outs, and what I've told you is

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the you know, cod of the bottom line.

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But it is worth a read.

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It. It's very nicely put for astronomy enthusiasts in perhaps

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one of the principal magazines for astronomy enthusiasts, going Telescope.

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Yeah, I'm just amazed that you can look at a

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situation and go okay, how did that happen and then

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sort of work backwards to a source billions of years ago.

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That just fascinates me. I think it's very clever, as

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you said, very clever detective work. Yeah, and that's in

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Sky and Telescope magazine if you want to read up.

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While we're talking about meteorites, Fred, I read an article

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or the other day which I think the BBC Science

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website ran about Earth getting bombarded by micro meteorites, which

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are tiny pieces of asteroid and they reckon. Between twenty

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and sixty million kilograms falls on Earth every year in

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micro meteorites. And if you were to I don't know

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who worked this out, but if you were to stand

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in the same spot for almost thirteen years, you would

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get a micro meteorite caught in your hair. There you are,

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there's a factoid if you like.

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But of course, assuming that you have fard.

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Well that's right.

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If you don't, it would probably bounce off and land

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in someone else's hair maybe the case.

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That's an interesting article in it. It kind of sparks

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memories for me of well, when I was in Edinburgh

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decades ago. There are things called brown lea particles. Did

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that crop up in the in the article you remember?

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I can't see the word there.

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I can see a couple of other interesting little tidbits,

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like there's one in four thy six hundred chances of

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being hit by a micro meteorite. If you stand in

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the same spot for twenty four hours.

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You probably you wouldn't know it. No, well, if you

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stood in the same spot for twenty four hours, I

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think you probably need therapy. Anyway, you're probably in line

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for Taylor Swift tickets. That's probably where you'd be.

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Oh, that could be it. That could yes, that could

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be right.

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Great, it's an interesting factoid. We should put that in

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Friends Flip the Right.

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Fled Fred's flippant Factoids, which we started doing on our

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TikTok if you want to look at us and look

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us up on TikTok when we do.

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Little previews of the shows. So, yes, that's an interesting story,

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as is this one. Fred. They've been studying a.

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Brown dwarf for the last thirty years, but there's something

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about it was off. So they've taken a closer look

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and when bam, thank you ma'am, it's not one but

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two brown dwarfs. They've only got five more defined.

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Yeah, essentially this a good question what the population of

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brown dwarf brown dwarf stars is.

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It's very high.

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It's subject that we haven't really talked about, no, Andrew,

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and it's probably not a very good thing that we

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haven't talked about it much because certainly one of my

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former colleagues at the Australian Astronomical Observatory, Professor Christiny of

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the University of New South Wales, he began his career

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as one of the world's leading experts on brown dwarf stars.

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He's now moved on to exoplanets, which I guess of

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the next step down the series, because brown dwarfs in

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a way they sit in size between the giant planets

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of the Solar System, for example, or any other Solar

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System and stars themselves. They're defined as having a mass

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a lower mass limit of thirteen times the mass of Jupiter,

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and that means that if Jupiter had grown to be

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thirteen times its present size, it would have not been

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a planet, it would have been a brown dwarf. And

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the difference is that brown dwarfs have low level nuclear

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processes going on in their interior, something called deuterium burning,

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which gives them enough of a temperature that they're visible

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in the infrared the redder than red waveband. So that's

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how brown dwarfs are found using infrared telescopes. And back

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in the day, it would be in the nineteen eighties

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and nineties when brown dwarfs first started to be being discovered.

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This new population of stars that didn't quite make it

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because they're not big enough. I think they need to

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be about ninety times one hundred times the mass in

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Jupiter in order for you know, what we call hydrogen

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fusion to take place and normal processes that make styles shine. Anyway,

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that's the background. So this is a brown dwarf which

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is called Gliza two to nine B. Gliza was an

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astronomer who made a catalog of these things, and in

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fact the discovery exactly as you said thirty years ago,

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nearly discovered in nineteen ninety five and is one that

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there is puzzle astronomers because they couldn't really work out

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why it was so massive and so dim. It should

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if it was the mass that we thought it was,

258
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it should be a lot brighter. Now, school with a

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couple of kids that fit that description.

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Massive button dim Yeah, okay.

261
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He didn't argue with them. He didn't argue with them,

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so yeah, yeah, I can well imagine. I don't just

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we probably shouldn't name them now that might get us

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in talk. Never mentioned Paul's name. All right, let's move

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on the brown dwarf gleaser to two nine B should

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be more, should be brighter than it is given its

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mass until now, and now we have had a paper

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that's been lead authored by actually a graduate student, which

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is you know, it's nice to see these post graduate

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students doing their graduate students doing their basically cutting edge research.

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And this gentleman Jerry Clan who is at the California

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Institute of Technology, and Jerry can be either.

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So I should just.

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Qualify that by seeing saying this person, Jerry quann is

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a graduate student at Caltech, the California Institute of Technology,

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one of the leading organizations in the world for this

277
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kind of work, and lots of other fields of studying too. Anyway,

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he or she they have written a paper in Nature

279
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which explains what the issue is and it's that Lisa

280
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two to nine B isn't one, but is actually two

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00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:32.559
brown dwarfs thirty eight and thirty four times the US

282
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of Jupiter, and they have a twelve day orbit around

283
00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:40.960
each other and something close to our hearts here in Australia.

284
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They were observed by using instruments at the very large

285
00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:50.640
telescope in Chile run by the European Southern Observatory, which

286
00:17:50.680 --> 00:17:53.920
we in Australia have a strategic partnership with. Now, so

287
00:17:54.039 --> 00:17:56.480
the fact that this star is actually not a single star,

288
00:17:56.559 --> 00:17:59.079
it's a binary, which is what we call two styles

289
00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:04.759
orbiting around another is a great discoverer. Yeah, great discovery

290
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:08.359
and pushes forward our understanding of brown dwarfs. In fact,

291
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it clearly solves a problem if this thing was more

292
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massive than it should be for the amount of radiation

293
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that it gives out.

294
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So yes, really really.

295
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Very nice, a very nice study. There's a nice quote

296
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from one of the people who actually discovered Gleezer two

297
00:18:29.400 --> 00:18:33.799
to nine B back in nineteen ninety five, Rebecca Oppenheimer,

298
00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:36.839
who says, these two worlds whipping around each other are

299
00:18:36.839 --> 00:18:40.480
actually smaller in radius than Jupiter. They look quite strange

300
00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:42.319
in our night sky. If we had something like them

301
00:18:42.359 --> 00:18:45.440
in our own solar system, they would indeed yeah.

302
00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:48.519
Wow, No, that's a great discovery and it sorts out

303
00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:52.079
a problem about this thing they've been looking at for

304
00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:53.720
thirty years not being bright enough.

305
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And yeah they've they've figured it out.

306
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And Jerry is a bloke, so and look forgive me Fred,

307
00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:09.200
but I think the Chinese pronounced their exes as ship

308
00:19:09.880 --> 00:19:16.359
so Shun I would suggest his surname Jerry chu Anne

309
00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:24.799
from the cultake yep, yes, originally from China and ultimately

310
00:19:24.839 --> 00:19:32.079
in Canada. Yeah, yeah, very very good pick up by

311
00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:38.079
him about the brown dwarf situation. How close is the

312
00:19:38.119 --> 00:19:38.960
nearest one to us?

313
00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:41.720
Have we ever figured that out? Yes, we probably do

314
00:19:41.839 --> 00:19:44.559
know that, and it's probably not that far, but I

315
00:19:44.599 --> 00:19:48.680
don't know the answer to it. I'm sure while we're

316
00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:51.279
talking about the next story, you can google closest.

317
00:19:50.839 --> 00:19:55.759
Brown draft you know, I will, and.

318
00:19:55.720 --> 00:19:59.079
I'm glad you do it, because, like, as we've just discovered,

319
00:19:59.079 --> 00:20:03.440
it's very nice that, yeah, you can chill in these gaps.

320
00:20:03.759 --> 00:20:08.599
The nearest Brown dwarfs are located in the Lumen sixteen system,

321
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which is about six and a half light years away.

322
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Yeah, I thought they would be quite close.

323
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I mean, it's because we have a relatively nearby population

324
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of brown dwarfs. So they're probably very common in the galaxy.

325
00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:28.640
It's because they're not great distances that we know about

326
00:20:28.680 --> 00:20:32.160
them at all, because they are so dim, they're kind

327
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of broiled.

328
00:20:32.680 --> 00:20:34.480
That's why they got that. Yeah.

329
00:20:34.720 --> 00:20:38.359
Yeah, not weak enough to be plants, not strong enough

330
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to be stars. They're just somewhere in between, wondering about

331
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their identities.

332
00:20:44.839 --> 00:20:47.960
Normally, they're probably very confused and very.

333
00:20:47.799 --> 00:20:49.960
Confused spatial objects.

334
00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:52.519
Yeah, if you want to read all about that, it's

335
00:20:52.599 --> 00:20:56.839
in the Cosmos magazine website. This is Space Nuts with

336
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Andrew Dunkley and Professor.

337
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Fred Broad space Buds.

338
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Okay, Fred, we've got a couple of stories involving SpaceX.

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We've been talking about them a lot lately, and in

340
00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:16.319
this case there's some good news and some not so

341
00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:18.920
good news. Let's start off with the good news about

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SpaceX making so many inroads in rocket technology.

343
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It is.

344
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It's really quite amazing what SpaceX has achieved so last

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week as we stand at the moment. In late October,

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SpaceX carried out it's ninety ninth operational flight of the year,

347
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and that was styling another Starlink launch, So twenty Starlink

348
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satellites launchtrom Cape Canaveral and basically a successful mission. The

349
00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:03.440
booster had already flown sixteen lames beforehand and made after

350
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the seventeenth flight, made a good recovery on the drone hip,

351
00:22:08.720 --> 00:22:13.359
which is called just read the instructions. Yeah, that this great,

352
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isn't it? So? You know, it's it's really quite remarkable.

353
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So the Space Coast as it's called where Canaveral is

354
00:22:27.319 --> 00:22:35.880
seventy one so far this year. Because SpaceX also launches

355
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from other places as well, so seventy one from the

356
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Space Coast, of which all but five of them have

357
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been flown by SpaceX. It's quite an extraordinary track record.

358
00:22:50.839 --> 00:22:53.519
In fact, one of them was one we saw where

359
00:22:53.559 --> 00:22:57.559
we were in Florida back in May.

360
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The others and.

361
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The other five were flown by the United Launch Alliance.

362
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But you know, that statistic in itself tells you how

363
00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:11.680
much of a game changer being able to recover your

364
00:23:11.720 --> 00:23:15.079
booster rocket is and that because that's what gives space

365
00:23:15.279 --> 00:23:18.319
X the edge on this, that they can pull the

366
00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:23.839
booster rocket back and launch it again. Yes, so, and

367
00:23:23.920 --> 00:23:28.880
of course there's been other, you know, other other missions

368
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that the breakdown is of the ninety nine launches is

369
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ninety one Falcon and five Falcon Heavy missions. And I

370
00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:43.240
don't think that includes the theybeating does the Starling Sorry

371
00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:46.920
Starship launches? I can't remember how that fits into the

372
00:23:48.440 --> 00:23:52.720
into the statistics the Starling launches, which of course culminated

373
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in that extraordinary event a couple of weeks ago when

374
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when the Starling Sorryes Starship boost of the Falcon Super

375
00:24:01.640 --> 00:24:05.000
Heavy which are grabbed by the chopsticks. Yeah. Down there

376
00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:07.960
a book a Chica in Texas. So, yes, that's the

377
00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:09.599
good news. A lot of activity.

378
00:24:10.119 --> 00:24:15.640
Yeah, they reckon Fred that they could reach around one

379
00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:17.920
hundred and forty four launches by the end of this

380
00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:21.119
calendar year, which would be an all time record.

381
00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:25.440
That would, Yeah, an amazing achievement. I think they're launching

382
00:24:25.480 --> 00:24:31.640
on average once every couple of weeks.

383
00:24:31.799 --> 00:24:36.359
Well, yes, it's more than that. It's more than twice.

384
00:24:35.799 --> 00:24:41.039
It's three times a week, basically three times a little. Yeah,

385
00:24:41.079 --> 00:24:44.480
it's a lot. Yeah, it's kind of almost every day,

386
00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:46.480
which is sort of what you know, what we It's

387
00:24:46.519 --> 00:24:50.319
not quite that, but it's it's what we expected would

388
00:24:50.359 --> 00:24:52.400
happen with all this. Now. Of course, most of those

389
00:24:52.920 --> 00:25:01.079
launches were for styling satellites space butts.

390
00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:05.160
Therein though, lies a problem, and this is where we

391
00:25:05.240 --> 00:25:08.319
get onto the not so good news for SpaceX because

392
00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:12.279
people have been analyzing their activity, and it's not just them,

393
00:25:12.480 --> 00:25:18.839
there's a lot of organizations that use similar technology. And

394
00:25:19.039 --> 00:25:23.599
the concerns have been raised about pollution in our atmosphere.

395
00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:30.319
That's right, and this is something that's been growing in

396
00:25:30.599 --> 00:25:34.680
I guess attention over the past well a few months

397
00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:38.960
perhaps the past year. Is what happens when the spacecraft

398
00:25:39.039 --> 00:25:46.079
re enters the atmosphere, so it burns up if you know,

399
00:25:46.759 --> 00:25:48.759
less bits of it actually get down to the Earth,

400
00:25:48.759 --> 00:25:50.480
which we do know happens from time to time.

401
00:25:50.519 --> 00:25:51.759
We've talked about that as well.

402
00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:55.720
But fac the spacecraft burns up. If you've got a

403
00:25:55.799 --> 00:25:58.720
like a Starlink satellite, which way is about a quarter

404
00:25:58.759 --> 00:26:02.480
of a ton about three meters by one meter, they

405
00:26:02.839 --> 00:26:07.759
basically are completely burned up in the atmosphere, and that

406
00:26:07.799 --> 00:26:10.240
means there's a quarter of a ton of stuff gone

407
00:26:10.279 --> 00:26:14.799
into the atmosphere, and the stuff is mostly aliminium oxide

408
00:26:14.839 --> 00:26:18.480
because they're must be made of aluminium. They burned up

409
00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:24.400
and generate aliminium oxide. And that is well, it's one

410
00:26:24.400 --> 00:26:26.440
of these gases that contributes to the hole in the

411
00:26:26.440 --> 00:26:31.319
ozone there and so it is not that and gentle

412
00:26:31.480 --> 00:26:37.279
on the atmosphere. There's an estimate which is that at

413
00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:42.440
the moment, about half a ton of burned up satellite

414
00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:46.880
trash as it's called, you know, by some of the

415
00:26:46.920 --> 00:26:49.480
authors who are written about this, and I'm looking at

416
00:26:49.480 --> 00:26:54.039
the space dot com website. At the moment satellite trash

417
00:26:54.279 --> 00:26:58.720
half a ton comes in per day. And that's because

418
00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:03.920
you've got you know, a lot of Starlink satellites burning

419
00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:06.680
up their they're a quarter of a talent. But you've

420
00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:13.279
also got the upper stage of the Starlink launch vehicles.

421
00:27:13.319 --> 00:27:15.359
So it's the top part of a Falcon heavy, the

422
00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:19.319
bit that does not get returned to Earth, the cheaper bit.

423
00:27:20.640 --> 00:27:22.720
I think it weighs about four tons when all the

424
00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:26.200
fuels out of it, and so that's they're coming down

425
00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:29.319
as well. So if Starlink are launching twenty at a time,

426
00:27:29.400 --> 00:27:33.200
which is about the standard number at the moment, then

427
00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:37.000
that every twenty satellites you get another four tons of debris,

428
00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:40.880
which is the aluminium oxide that comes from the upper

429
00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:47.039
stage of your rocket. That's it's a concern. It's starting

430
00:27:47.039 --> 00:27:52.599
to worry people. As I said, in particular, particularly it

431
00:27:52.640 --> 00:27:56.480
is in regards to its effect on the ozone lare.

432
00:27:57.119 --> 00:28:01.400
Now you and I have to before about the lifetime

433
00:28:01.440 --> 00:28:04.920
of Stalink satellites. They are about five years and you

434
00:28:04.960 --> 00:28:08.160
will recall probably that the first tranch of Starlink satellites

435
00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:12.200
was launched in May twenty nineteen. That's five years ago,

436
00:28:12.359 --> 00:28:14.240
more than five years ago. So they are starting to

437
00:28:14.279 --> 00:28:15.039
come back.

438
00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:19.960
And this is going to constantly rotate over time. They

439
00:28:20.839 --> 00:28:22.759
launching more.

440
00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:25.359
Than the getting back that have past.

441
00:28:25.400 --> 00:28:27.440
They use by date, so they come back and burn up.

442
00:28:27.480 --> 00:28:30.240
They put a bunch more up there. They ultimately want

443
00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:32.680
to put like what one hundred thousand of these things

444
00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:34.279
in orbit, and I.

445
00:28:34.319 --> 00:28:36.119
Think it could be one hundred thousand when you added

446
00:28:36.200 --> 00:28:40.359
all the different constellations. At the moment, Starlink's twelve thousand

447
00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:46.960
aiming at but with possible extension of another thirty thousand

448
00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:48.759
spacecraft in case two.

449
00:28:49.119 --> 00:28:50.920
I don't think it's called that anymore, but it was

450
00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:51.319
called that.

451
00:28:52.119 --> 00:28:54.400
But then on top of that, you've got one Web

452
00:28:54.440 --> 00:28:57.079
which has something like six hundred spacecraft in orbit. You've

453
00:28:57.079 --> 00:29:02.359
got Koiper which is another another of these constellations fun

454
00:29:02.519 --> 00:29:07.000
which is the Chinese answer to starlink. That's fourteen to

455
00:29:07.079 --> 00:29:09.880
fifteen thousand such a lites. When you add all these up,

456
00:29:10.440 --> 00:29:12.319
it could be that by the end of the decade

457
00:29:12.319 --> 00:29:15.079
we have one hundred thousand satellites in orbit, which would

458
00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:19.559
actually impact on the sky very significantly. Well, that's the problem.

459
00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:24.920
One problem for observational astronomers is the pollution that creates

460
00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:28.599
for observations. But all of these things are going to

461
00:29:28.599 --> 00:29:31.200
come back down, They're designed to come back down and

462
00:29:31.279 --> 00:29:33.440
burn up on re entry, and we're putting all that

463
00:29:34.960 --> 00:29:39.200
aluminium oxide into the atmosphere. And I read the word

464
00:29:39.240 --> 00:29:43.200
but it's escaped me. But it basically means that with

465
00:29:43.279 --> 00:29:47.160
the effect this could have on the ozone layer, it

466
00:29:47.200 --> 00:29:52.319
would affect here. It is the albedo, the ability for

467
00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:57.559
our planet to reflect sunlight. So this is yet another

468
00:29:57.640 --> 00:30:01.319
potential greenhouse effect problem.

469
00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:09.000
Yes, that's right. Indeed, that's right. It's clearly shaping up

470
00:30:09.039 --> 00:30:13.319
to be an environmental problem that is a direct result

471
00:30:13.359 --> 00:30:16.400
of the space age. And there's not many of those

472
00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:19.200
that you can point to. You know, a lot of

473
00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:25.000
people think it's the exhaust gases from the rockets, which

474
00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:29.599
in a particular way it is because solid rocket fuel

475
00:30:29.960 --> 00:30:34.799
is very bad for ozone depletion, and apparently the solid

476
00:30:34.839 --> 00:30:38.799
rockets that are used for some of the launchers United

477
00:30:39.519 --> 00:30:44.000
United Launch Alliances Atlas five uses strap on solid rocket boosters.

478
00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:48.519
China's Long March eleven has solid rocket fuel boosters, and

479
00:30:48.599 --> 00:30:52.599
actually the new Ariana six, the European one, also has

480
00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:56.119
these strap on boosters and they give out chemicals that

481
00:30:56.119 --> 00:30:59.920
are pretty horrible. There's chlorine in there, and the low

482
00:31:00.039 --> 00:31:04.799
with all sorts of stuff, and the worst of it

483
00:31:04.839 --> 00:31:09.440
is that they are putting these exhaust plumes into the

484
00:31:09.480 --> 00:31:13.880
stratosphere just basically where the ozone is. So it's a

485
00:31:13.960 --> 00:31:17.160
really bad effect of those on depletion, more so actually

486
00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:20.559
than the burning up of re entering satellite. So this

487
00:31:20.720 --> 00:31:24.200
is all looking like a pretty gloomy story for space,

488
00:31:24.279 --> 00:31:27.960
that we're putting all this stuff into the atmosphere that

489
00:31:28.039 --> 00:31:29.759
we could probably do without.

490
00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:34.279
Well, unless somebody in authority acts quickly and says, okay,

491
00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:36.960
you can't do that anymore. We know what could happen.

492
00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:39.200
We don't want that to happen. You're going to have

493
00:31:39.200 --> 00:31:43.920
to find another way. It sounds like a simple answer.

494
00:31:43.920 --> 00:31:44.599
I'm sure it's not.

495
00:31:46.200 --> 00:31:46.720
No, it's not.

496
00:31:46.920 --> 00:31:49.640
I mean you're kind of reduced to something like the

497
00:31:49.680 --> 00:31:51.559
space Elevator, which is probably.

498
00:31:51.319 --> 00:31:52.640
A non starter anyway.

499
00:31:52.839 --> 00:31:58.359
Yeah, so yeah, yeah, interesting, really interesting analysis.

500
00:31:58.960 --> 00:32:02.240
Indeed, it's not good to finish on a down I

501
00:32:02.359 --> 00:32:06.200
like that. But for all their achievements, there is a

502
00:32:06.200 --> 00:32:08.680
price to pay, and it sounds like our atmosphere is

503
00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:12.000
paying that price and we'll do for some time to

504
00:32:12.039 --> 00:32:14.440
come unless something can be done about it. And there's

505
00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:17.920
an alternative on the horizon, but it doesn't appear to

506
00:32:17.960 --> 00:32:19.720
be the case. If you want to read that story,

507
00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:23.960
as Fred said, it's on the space dot com website,

508
00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:28.279
and that story about the SpaceX launchers is at fizz

509
00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:33.160
phys fizz dot org. And don't forget if you would

510
00:32:33.200 --> 00:32:36.680
like to contact us or visit our website, you can

511
00:32:36.759 --> 00:32:39.799
do that. That's space Nuts podcast dot com or space

512
00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:45.000
nuts dot io. And have a look around. Christmas isn't

513
00:32:45.039 --> 00:32:47.880
far away. Maybe you want to get somebody a nice

514
00:32:48.039 --> 00:32:53.319
space related gifty pooh, we've got them at our shop.

515
00:32:53.519 --> 00:32:56.519
And if you want to be a supporter of space Nuts,

516
00:32:56.759 --> 00:33:00.759
don't forget to click on the supporter tab and maybe

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become a patron. We're not telling you to we would

518
00:33:03.480 --> 00:33:05.519
never tell you to do that, but it's an option

519
00:33:05.759 --> 00:33:10.480
and we certainly send our thanks out to the several

520
00:33:10.599 --> 00:33:12.119
hundred members of.

521
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Various patron based organized website who support Space Nuts.

522
00:33:18.880 --> 00:33:21.440
We really do appreciate it. Thank you so very much.

523
00:33:21.480 --> 00:33:25.839
Lots of benefits come with being a patron, which Hugh

524
00:33:26.200 --> 00:33:30.160
looks after. So that's all on our website, Spacenuts podcast

525
00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:32.960
dot com. Fred, We're all done, Thank you so much,

526
00:33:33.160 --> 00:33:34.279
so nice to talk to.

527
00:33:34.279 --> 00:33:39.279
You again, and I will speak again. I'm sure we will.

528
00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:41.640
Could be a few minutes, could be a few days,

529
00:33:42.079 --> 00:33:45.279
you never know. Professor Fred Wat's an astronomer at large.

530
00:33:45.279 --> 00:33:50.440
And thanks to Hu in the studio for I'll get

531
00:33:50.480 --> 00:33:51.160
back to you on that.

532
00:33:51.319 --> 00:33:54.119
And from me Andrew Dunkley, thanks for your company. We'll

533
00:33:54.119 --> 00:33:56.359
catch you again on the next episode.

534
00:33:55.960 --> 00:34:01.079
Of Space Nuts. Bye bye, Sauts. Listening to the Space

535
00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:02.720
Nuts podcast.

536
00:34:03.799 --> 00:34:09.800
Available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or your favorite podcast player.

537
00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:13.119
You can also stream on demand at bites dot com.

538
00:34:13.320 --> 00:34:19.000
This has been another quality podcast production from nights dot com.
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