Oct. 17, 2024

#461: Anglo-Australian Telescope's Golden Jubilee, Starship's Stunning Catch & Laser Links to Mars

#461: Anglo-Australian Telescope's Golden Jubilee, Starship's Stunning Catch & Laser Links to Mars

Space Nuts #461
Join Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson in this engaging episode of Space Nuts, where they explore the latest advancements and historical milestones in space exploration. From the 50th anniversary of the Anglo-Australian...

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Space Nuts #461
Join Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson in this engaging episode of Space Nuts, where they explore the latest advancements and historical milestones in space exploration. From the 50th anniversary of the Anglo-Australian Telescope to the groundbreaking Starship 5 test flight, this episode is brimming with fascinating insights and cosmic discoveries.
Episode Highlights:
- Anglo-Australian Telescope at 50: Celebrate the half-century milestone of the largest optical telescope on Australian soil. Fred Watson Watson shares his personal connection and the telescope's impact on astronomy, from its iconic images to its world-first discoveries.
- Starship 5's Spectacular Test Flight: Discover the audacious success of SpaceX's Starship 5, where the booster was caught mid-air by giant clamps. A game-changer in Space flight efficiency and technology.
- Deep Space Laser Communication: Explore NASA's successful tests of laser data systems, achieving communication over distances equivalent to Earth-Mars separation. Learn how this technology could revolutionise Space communication.
- Europa Clipper's Journey Begins: The mission to explore Jupiter's icy moon is underway. With its massive solar panels and advanced instruments, Europa Clipper promises to uncover the mysteries beneath Europa's surface.
For more Space Nuts, including our continually updating newsfeed and to listen to all our episodes, visit our website. Follow us on social media at SpaceNutsPod on Facebook, X, YouTube Music, Instagram, and TikTok. We love engaging with our community, so be sure to drop us a message or comment on your favourite platform.
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Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.

 

 

WEBVTT

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Hello again, Thank you for joining us. This is Space Nuts.

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My name is Andrew Dunkley. I know it doesn't sound

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like me, but I have a cold, so that's my

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excuse and I'm sticking to it. Coming up on this

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episode it is all about space launchers and telescopes and communications.

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We got a look at the Anglo Australian telescope fifty

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years on Starship five's test flight, the deep space laser

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communication system that NAS has been testing, and Europa Clipper

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is off the ground. That's all coming up on this

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episode of Space Nuts fifteen seconds. Guidance is Internal ten

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nine ignition sigunch, Space Nuts four three.

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Two Space Nuts as when I reported Neil's good.

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And joining us to unravel all the ravelment of space

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science is Professor. I've read Wat's a Hello Fred, Hello, Hell,

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They're good to see you again, Andrew gotcha. Yes, indeed,

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I've been overseas. I know that people probably don't realize that,

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but I think we alluded to it in the last

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few episodes that we were doing catch ups to try

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and maintain the momentum, so we didn't miss any many weeks.

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But I've been to Turkey, which is what we call it,

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but it's Turkey in that particular country. And well you

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can say Europe or Asia, which one do you choose?

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I mean that the country spans both continents, So yeah,

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it's fascinating country. Fred I loved it there, loved it.

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I haven't.

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Yeah.

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Look, I chose that holiday because I wanted to go

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to the Gallipoli Peninsula. Now that'll be familiar to Australians,

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New Zealanders, British and a few other contingents who did

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fight on the peninsula in World War One in nineteen fifteen.

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But to people from the United States, they might go Galie,

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what Gallipoli? Gallipoli, the data and els. It was a

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plan to take Constantinople from the Ottoman Empire in World

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War One and it was an utter disaster, but it

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was written into Australian folklore, so sort of a mecha

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for Australians and New Zealanders to go there because it

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was essentially Australia's first war as a federated nation. And

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so I walked the beaches of Vanzac Cove and visited

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the battlefields of Lone Pine. I wanted to see the Neck.

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The Battle of the Neck was one of the most

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tragic advances I think the Australians fought in in the

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entire First World War many but it was a hiding

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to nothing. They just did not have to stand a

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chance because they were running across ground that had cliffs

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on both sides as wide as three tennis courts, and

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they were up against machine guns and they just didn't

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have a hope. And now that I've seen it, I

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can see the problem. I didn't really you know, you've

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heard the stories, but yeah, quite incredible.

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I went to.

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Chunnick Bear right up the top, which is where the

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New Zealand has got, and that's as far as the

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Allies ever got in the Callipoli campaign.

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They could see the dataels which was the target, but

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they never got near them. Yeah.

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And then we visited all sorts of other places, some

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incredible ruins, including the famous city of Troy.

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Yeah.

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And then we spent seven days out on a boat

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on the Mediterranean, just flitting around from port to port

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or cove to cove, swimming and relaxing and telling silly

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stories to each other and eating up a dorms. Great

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fabulous country. Loved it. Istanbul is just amazing, but so

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as some of the other places you've probably never heard of,

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like Fettia and Cash and places like that, well.

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Worth a visit.

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I would go back tomorrow. Yeah, So what have you

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been up to while I've been away? You've been busy,

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You've been busy.

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Yeah, just a few minor you know, plans shaping my

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entire future, which we won't go into at the moment,

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but there might be news down the track, but more

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especially it will lead into our first item. I think

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we've recently had a symposium to celebrate the fiftieth anniversary

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of the Anglo Australian Telescope, the largest optical telescope on

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Australian soil, together with the annual Siding Spring Starfest, which

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is the open weekend that always happens at the beginning

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of October.

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Yeah, which I went to a couple of time times

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over the years, but I was away for this one.

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And look, fifty years is an incredible achievement. But for

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twenty of those years you were in charge of that place.

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That's correct, and actually.

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And that's how we met.

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It is how we met, that's right when there was

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astronomer in charge there. So yes, it's as I said,

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the biggest telescope on Australian soil, mirror three point nine

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meters in diameter and sits on the mountain in the

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Warren Bungle Mountain range. Warren Bungle is a go millar

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Ray word. It means crooked mountains that's not very far

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from where you are now, and yeah, they are very crooked.

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So we had a lot to do with each other.

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But what a lot of people in the astronomical community

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don't realize because they have no idea that I am

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actually one hundred and ninety years old, but I was

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involved with the Anglo Australian Telescope before it was even

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built because my first job in astronomy and the only

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time I've ever worked for a private company other than

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with casual student jobs, I was an optical physicist fresh

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out of university at a company by the name of

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Sir Howard Grubb, Parsons and Company Limited, which was founded

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back in the eighteen thirties or its original version was,

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and that was the company that got the contract to

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build the telescope itself. That's what we call the tube,

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even though it's more like a you know, it's an

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open framework and the optics they had the contract to

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do that. The mounting of the telescope, a bit that

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pointed around the sky, was built by the Mitsubishi Corporation

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in Japan, who you may have heard of. And my job,

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this is back in nineteen sixty nine, was just after

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the sting for the mirror. So the mirror is made

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of not glass quite, it's a glass ceramic material called

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serve It, which has which has zero expansion coefficient, which

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means that as the temperature changes, it doesn't change its shape.

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Quite a revolution at the time, because you know, as

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the temperature warmed. With old fashioned telescopes, she had to

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refocus them and do all sorts of things, but Servit

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changed all that. So this twenty ton casting three point

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nine meter diameter casting of Servit material was cast in Ohio,

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which is where O AND's Illinois, despite their name, where

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they had their glass factory. My boss at the time

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went to inspect this glass blank in nineteen sixty nine

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and came back saying it's all good. There is no

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there are no flaws with it that will compromise its

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you know, it's becoming a perfect mirror and it's coming

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back to the United Kingdom where I was working. What

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we need is we need a proper mat for it

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to sit on while the optical polishing is taking place.

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But it's more than a matt. It was an air bag.

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So this was two thick pieces of polyethylene welded together

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around the edge three point nine meters in diameter, to

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be filled with air under high pressure when the mirror arrived,

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so it could sit on that for the optical surfacing,

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which actually took about four years and removed something like

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four tons of material. The finished mirror was sixteen tons,

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delivered in nineteen seventy three to the observatory. I didn't

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actually make the air bag, but I did start the

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work on the air bag. Remember these huge pieces of

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black polyethylene. That was my part in the origins of

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the Anglo Australian Telescope. As you said, it very quickly

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became an icon in its own right. It was commissioned, well,

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it was actually opened in fact, as we are recording

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this on the sixteenth of October twenty twenty four. It

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was opened fifty years ago today by a gentleman who

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simply signed his name Charles in the visitors book and

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has now been promoted is his Majesty the King he

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opened it, and that's what we're celebrating with that anniversary.

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It went into service in nineteen seventy five immediately became

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one of the leading telescopes in the world because it

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was the first telescope of its size to be completely

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computer controlled, and that meant it was could work very efficiently.

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And another thing that put it very quickly on the

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map was the photographic work of my friend and colleague

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David Malin lives not very far from where I'm sitting

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now in retirement, although he's still active. He perfected the

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art and science of making true color images of the sky,

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which had never been done before. He used a combination

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of three photographic plates and in red light, one in

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blue light, one in green light, combined them together to

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make true color images, and they became world famous. There

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were books and albums and all sorts of things, but that,

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plus the scientific ability of the telescope is what really

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put it on the map, and so for fifty years

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it's been one of the leading instruments in the world's

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arsenal of great telescopes.

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We nearly lost it, though, didn't we At Big Fire.

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Yes, that's correct. Twenty thirteen, the thirteenth of January was

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the date the womble On fire swept across the top

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of siding Spring Mountain and nearly took out everything. The

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reason why it didn't one of the reasons why it

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was that exactly a decade earlier, almost to the day,

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not quite, but almost to the day, a similar fire

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had swept across the Mount Stromlow Observatory in Canberra, which

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was the parent body of the Siding Spring Observatory, and

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that did take out pretty well everything. And the bottom

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line was lessons were learned from that that were applied

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at Siding Springs, so we had amber screens on all

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the windows. One of the problems with the bush fire

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is that the ambers, the burning embers get through the windows,

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they smash the glass and before you know where you are,

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you've got a fire inside the building. Doesn't matter how

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you know how good it is on the outside, the

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fires burning inside. And that's what happened Stromlo. We were

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saved from that by the lessons learned, plus the aerial

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water bombing of the Rural Fire Service as well. So yeah,

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they were infrastructed.

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They were fabulous.

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Of course, you and I spent a lot of time

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on here over those twenty years talking astronomy and some

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of the things achieved by the Anglo Australian Telescope. And

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our transmitters were on the neighboring mountain, yes, zen Kruek,

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and our transmitters were under threat from that same fire,

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and the Royal Fire Service saved our transmitters by bombing

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it with retardant, and the whole top of the mountain

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was pink. I got some photos of it, and it

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saved the transmitters. And I actually got into trouble from

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the ABC because I didn't tell anyone in Sydney that

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our transmitters were under threat, simply because nobody told me.

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But that was no excuse apparently. But yeah, but andrew

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you any harrowing time.

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You were always in trouble with the ABC.

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Now if I was over, yes, I pretty well defied

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political correctness on a few occasions and got me into

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some boiling water.

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But great time spread, great time.

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There were just very briefly, just to give you a

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flavor of our listeners, of a flavor of what the

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telescope did. It you know, had some world first It

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was the first telescope to see down to the surface

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of Venus with infrarend like penetrating the clouds. It was

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one of the first telescopes to discover the optical flashes

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of light from these rapidly spinning neutron stars that we

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call pulsars. In later years, it made and still does

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actually made huge surveys of the environment of our galaxy

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in the universe. So we've got, you know, surveys out

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to several billion light years. I think it's about five

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billion light years now, the originally it was two and

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a half billion light years. Where you map all the

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galaxies and from that you can deduce the structure. You find.

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There's this kind of honeycomb structure of galaxies which we

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relate to the Big Bang, and it lets us learn

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more about dark matter and dark energy. The actual structure

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that's imprinted on the universe as a whole is still

224
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doing that, and the other thing it's doing is investigating

225
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galaxies themselves in detail and discovering and characterizing the planets

226
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and of the stars. So it's right across all these

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hot topics in contemporary astrophysics. Fifty years after it was built,

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it's pretty good.

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It's remarkable and hopefully it will keep on keeping on.

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My first and last sojourn into television was with you

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at the observatory.

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So long ago.

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Yeah, they were testing whether or not regional stations, regional

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radio stations could become kind of television bureaus. It was

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somewhat successful. I think they've reignited that policy now. But yeah,

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we did a story about the two d AP wasn't

237
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it the two degree field Yes, I think yes, which

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was installed there.

239
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Yeah. Great, it's a great facility.

240
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After that fire, you could drive towards Kunebarrabrin from Dubbo

241
00:14:51.679 --> 00:14:53.799
and you could see this white pimple on the side

242
00:14:53.840 --> 00:14:56.320
of the mountain because none of the trees were there,

243
00:14:56.720 --> 00:15:01.000
so the observatory stood out like a literal sourcear. Yes,

244
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it's a remarkable site driving towards the Warren Bungles, but

245
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even more spectacular with all the trees burned away.

246
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It has changed the whole landscape.

247
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But yeah, congratulations for your part of it, because you

248
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were there for quite a significant part of those fifty years.

249
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Well done to you and everybody. Fred let us on

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if you want to read about it.

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Fred's written a terrific article about the telescope in the

252
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Australian Geographic magazine online at Australian Geographic dot com dot au. Fred,

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let's have a quick chat about SpaceX and their test

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launch the other day. The Starship rocket last weekend, as

255
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we speak, got off the ground. This was a really

256
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interesting launch, not only forgetting it off the ground but

257
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getting it back in a way I've never seen before.

258
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And when I watched the video, I went, this has

259
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got to be science fiction.

260
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That's not real. Yeah, it's computer generated.

261
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But no.

262
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In fact, they did catch the rocket in like clamps

263
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back on the platform. Amazing, a pair of giant chopsticks.

264
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Yes, so what they described them as.

265
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So, I mean we you know, I've been keeping an

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eye on this for a long time and because this

267
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has been planned for a long time. The idea of

268
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capturing the booster, the Falcon super heavy seventy one meters high.

269
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I don't know what that is in feet, but it's

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a lot. It is the basically the first stage of

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Elon Musk Starship project, and that idea of capturing the

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booster by this extraordinary mechanism of a couple of clamps

273
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that grab it as it falls back down to the

274
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to the launch pad where it left from seemed like

275
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a crazy idea. We've been talking they've been talking about

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it for years, but then this week we actually watched

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it happen on TV and it was truly amazing. So

278
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just quickly about the rationale for this, Andrew, I think

279
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most of the people who catch our podcasts will be

280
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aware that the Falcon Falcon nine boosters, which are really

281
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the workhourse of Star Sorry SpaceX's fleet. They routinely land

282
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on bar drone barges and they touched down on a

283
00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:48.759
flat surface, but they've got landing legs which fold outwards.

284
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I've stood underneath them actually in Houston and at Cape Canaveral,

285
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they they've got ones that have actually flown there. Those

286
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landing legs fold out and the rocket touch down and

287
00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:03.200
of course doesn't fall over because you've deployed the landing

288
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legs and they hold it up. But for the Falcon

289
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super heavy, it is so super heavy that landing legs

290
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strong enough to keep it upright just couldn't be made,

291
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at least with the weight penalty that you'd have to

292
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take with you up to deliver whatever payload it is

293
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you're delivering into orbit. So this really audacious idea of

294
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capturing it with these two chopsticks on this structure that

295
00:18:34.240 --> 00:18:40.279
they call mecha Zilla is amazing. And you know, I

296
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don't even think Elon thought it would work first time,

297
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but it damn well has done. So that start that flight.

298
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It's called Starship five. It launched from Bocachica in Texas,

299
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Orange Site with the starship itself, which is the payload.

300
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The pair of them what is it, one hundred and

301
00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:13.960
twenty one meters tall, incredible went up as planned. The

302
00:19:15.079 --> 00:19:19.880
starship itself was injected into orbit. It only made half

303
00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:23.079
an orbit, but it was actually an orbital velocity that

304
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dropped under control. Actually it was a soft landing, but

305
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not on land.

306
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It was in the ocean.

307
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I think it was the Indian Ocean, if I remember rightly.

308
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While seven minutes after the launch, the super heavy launch,

309
00:19:40.599 --> 00:19:43.640
the booster itself came back down to Earth where it

310
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set off from, was grabbed by these two clamps and

311
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is now sitting there ready to be used again where

312
00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:53.160
it needs to be. You don't have to go out

313
00:19:53.160 --> 00:19:56.000
to the Atlantic to get it, bring it back or whatever.

314
00:19:57.359 --> 00:20:01.440
It's where it needs to be used again. Achievement almost

315
00:20:01.480 --> 00:20:03.240
a game changer I think in spaceflight.

316
00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:05.559
Oh for sure, it'll save them a lot of time

317
00:20:05.640 --> 00:20:08.359
and probably a little bit of money in the process too,

318
00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:12.519
because the recovery process must be very costly and time consuming.

319
00:20:13.880 --> 00:20:16.720
Yeah, they can make this work time and time again.

320
00:20:16.799 --> 00:20:17.920
It'll it'll just.

321
00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:23.880
Just increases the efficiency of the process. So well done

322
00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:29.079
to everybody at SpaceX with that Starship launch test launch

323
00:20:29.119 --> 00:20:31.720
that was so successful and so spectactic. If you haven't

324
00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:35.119
watched it the X, just do a search online and

325
00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:38.240
find the Starship five test flight and watch the video

326
00:20:38.319 --> 00:20:40.920
of the landing. That thing just drops like a rock

327
00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:47.480
and just to watch it adjust its trajectory and balance

328
00:20:47.920 --> 00:20:50.279
and flight path and just sort of coming back to Earth.

329
00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:52.519
It's like you're watching a film in reverse.

330
00:20:53.599 --> 00:20:57.119
That's what it loves like. Yeah, it's quite incredible.

331
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This is space nuts. Andrew Unkley here with Professor Fred Watson.

332
00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:06.960
Space buds.

333
00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:08.960
That was Fred sniffing, not me.

334
00:21:09.799 --> 00:21:13.079
Oh did I sniff? Actually I did sniff. I do apologize.

335
00:21:15.200 --> 00:21:18.079
It could have been me. It could easily have been me.

336
00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:21.960
I'm usually careful with that sort of thing, but my god.

337
00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:24.799
Do I know that's can we get in the when

338
00:21:24.839 --> 00:21:32.440
the jingles are on it just sort of yeah, you think, yeah, embarrassing.

339
00:21:33.640 --> 00:21:35.559
It's all good for it, it's all good. Just o't

340
00:21:35.559 --> 00:21:36.960
cat No.

341
00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:41.319
I'll try to avoid that by being three killings.

342
00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:42.000
Probably not far enough.

343
00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:48.799
One of the most important things in space flight and

344
00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:53.480
space travel and putting bases on moons and planets, which

345
00:21:53.519 --> 00:21:56.960
will probably ultimately happen, probably sooner than we think, is

346
00:21:57.079 --> 00:22:02.880
communications and NASA. NASA has been looking at methods of

347
00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:08.079
communication that you know, through through a series of tests,

348
00:22:08.119 --> 00:22:13.359
and they've been very successful with this particular process, which

349
00:22:13.599 --> 00:22:16.119
I am still trying to get my head around. But

350
00:22:16.240 --> 00:22:22.160
it's it's a laser data system. And am I right

351
00:22:22.200 --> 00:22:25.519
in saying that they've actually successfully sent signals to Mars.

352
00:22:27.799 --> 00:22:32.039
It's it's it's the distance that Mars is out that

353
00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:36.640
it's not true that they've sent signals to Mars. Well,

354
00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:38.119
they might, they might have done, but they're not have

355
00:22:38.279 --> 00:22:42.039
come back because there's nothing on Mars to send them back.

356
00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:46.039
But the reason why Mars is mentioned in this story

357
00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:51.079
is that the distance that have these signals have been

358
00:22:51.400 --> 00:22:55.720
successfully received and transmitted four hundred and sixty million kilometers

359
00:22:55.799 --> 00:22:58.759
or two hundred and ninety miles two hundred ninety million

360
00:22:58.839 --> 00:23:03.920
miles of make apart. It's the same distance as separates

361
00:23:04.039 --> 00:23:09.480
Mars and the Earth when they too at their furthest apart.

362
00:23:10.599 --> 00:23:15.160
To Mars, but to a distance equivalent itchroxtremity.

363
00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:18.880
Yes, it's almost half a billion kilometers. It's wow, an

364
00:23:18.920 --> 00:23:24.880
amazing distance, and it's part of a project that is

365
00:23:25.039 --> 00:23:29.720
really all about something completely different. This is the Psyche spacecraft,

366
00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:35.279
which is on its way to an asteroid called Psyche, which,

367
00:23:35.519 --> 00:23:37.599
like so many other things in astronomy, is very close

368
00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:40.160
to my heart because Psyche was one of the asteroids

369
00:23:40.200 --> 00:23:42.680
that I tested my brand new software on that I

370
00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:46.319
wrote for my master's degree back in the eighteen fifties

371
00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:51.640
or whatever it wants it was. So Psyche is an

372
00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:54.519
asteroid that I've known about for a long time. It's

373
00:23:54.599 --> 00:23:57.880
of great interest today. Can you remember why it's exciting

374
00:23:58.160 --> 00:24:04.160
as an asteroid? Andrew, Yes, good, well, I'll tell you

375
00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:09.039
it's a metal asteroid.

376
00:24:09.440 --> 00:24:11.680
That's what I was going to say that I should

377
00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:13.839
trust myself, trust yourself.

378
00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:15.039
That's right.

379
00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:18.640
Should put your money where your mouth is, or your

380
00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:20.559
mouth where your money is. That must might be the

381
00:24:20.680 --> 00:24:23.440
right one or the other. It's it's it may be

382
00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:29.240
the sort of denuded core of a protoplanet that never formed.

383
00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:32.240
So it's thought to be mostly made of II. That

384
00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:35.640
may be other stuff mixed with it, but it's it's

385
00:24:35.680 --> 00:24:38.880
got that density that suggests it is the actual core

386
00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:42.000
of a of a of a planet that never made it.

387
00:24:42.880 --> 00:24:47.160
So Psyche the asteroid is being visited by Psyche the spacecraft,

388
00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:52.920
but en route the spacecraft has been testing out this

389
00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:58.400
new technology of optical communications. So what you do is

390
00:24:58.440 --> 00:25:01.759
to use a laser rather than a radio transmitter, and

391
00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:06.119
beam your signals which are modulated with the information that

392
00:25:06.200 --> 00:25:07.880
you want to carry in just the same way as

393
00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:10.440
you do with the radio signal, and you pick it

394
00:25:10.519 --> 00:25:12.400
up at the other end, and you look at what

395
00:25:12.519 --> 00:25:17.920
you've got. Now, this is not it's not sort of

396
00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:28.000
insignificant technology. The transmitter on the Earth is a laboratory.

397
00:25:29.559 --> 00:25:32.599
It is actually near right Wood in California, and it's

398
00:25:32.680 --> 00:25:36.079
run by the Jet Propulsion Laboratory. They have a facility

399
00:25:36.200 --> 00:25:39.039
at a place called Table Mountain which is near right Wood,

400
00:25:39.359 --> 00:25:46.519
and that's got the terrestrial laser transmitter on board which

401
00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:50.599
beams out wait for it, seven killer watts of laser

402
00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:57.720
power up towards Psyche. So you've got to have because

403
00:25:57.759 --> 00:26:02.599
Psyche itself has only got a small telescope. To receive

404
00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:05.440
these signals, you need to beam them out with a

405
00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:09.799
huge power, which is why it's a seven killerwa laser.

406
00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:13.480
Remember that you're even a strong laser pointer will be

407
00:26:13.519 --> 00:26:17.640
about three milliwatts or something like that, two to three milliwatts,

408
00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:23.480
So seven killer whats is a lot. The spacecraft receives

409
00:26:23.559 --> 00:26:27.799
those with its little optical dish and could then beam

410
00:26:27.920 --> 00:26:32.039
signals back. Now, because the spacecraft doesn't have a seven

411
00:26:32.119 --> 00:26:35.359
killer what laser on board, it means that at this end,

412
00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:38.400
if you're trying to get the signals back from the spacecraft,

413
00:26:38.519 --> 00:26:40.160
you've got to have a big telescope. And in fact

414
00:26:40.200 --> 00:26:43.920
what they've been using is an instrument that for many

415
00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:46.680
years was the biggest optical telescope in the world, the

416
00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:50.519
Hail Telescope at Mount Palomar, not far from San Diego

417
00:26:50.720 --> 00:26:53.960
in California. It's a five meter telescope two hundred inch.

418
00:26:54.920 --> 00:26:56.680
When I was a lad, it was my father the

419
00:26:56.720 --> 00:26:59.200
biggest telescope in the world. There were pictures of it everywhere,

420
00:27:00.200 --> 00:27:03.880
prominent in history, and now it's still a fully used

421
00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:10.240
optical astronomy telescope. But it's also being borrowed to be

422
00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:17.440
used as a ground station for this experiment. What is

423
00:27:17.559 --> 00:27:21.240
the point of it, Well, if you can use optical

424
00:27:21.319 --> 00:27:25.920
communications from space or even on the ground, you've got

425
00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:29.160
data rates that are up to one hundred times more

426
00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:33.160
than you can with radio frequencies. You can pack much

427
00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:37.359
much more data into your signals, and so it is

428
00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:42.200
particularly for space communications, is being seen as a really

429
00:27:42.279 --> 00:27:48.799
interesting way forward for our future in communications in deep

430
00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:53.039
space using lasers. These are in forra read lasers. Then

431
00:27:53.359 --> 00:27:57.680
they're not visible light wavelengths, but they're still much much

432
00:27:58.720 --> 00:28:00.680
more capable in terms of their data content.

433
00:28:00.759 --> 00:28:05.839
The radio signals are lasers amazing what they can do

434
00:28:06.039 --> 00:28:11.400
with them, and they use them in medicine and radio

435
00:28:11.599 --> 00:28:15.720
radiation oncology, they use them in day to day life.

436
00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:18.319
They use them, as you said, with pointers, just little

437
00:28:18.319 --> 00:28:22.039
things like that, and idiots use them in their backyards

438
00:28:22.119 --> 00:28:23.720
to try and infew with aircraft.

439
00:28:23.799 --> 00:28:27.680
I mean, there's it's all sorts of that've become such

440
00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:28.279
a very.

441
00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:33.920
I don't know, pliable tool in so many ways.

442
00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:34.759
Yeah.

443
00:28:35.880 --> 00:28:39.359
Another tool that astronomers use them for is to create

444
00:28:39.519 --> 00:28:43.680
artificial stars that their adaptive optic systems can lock onto.

445
00:28:43.880 --> 00:28:46.160
So some of the biggest telescopes in the world in

446
00:28:46.240 --> 00:28:50.279
Hawaii in Chile have these laser systems that what they

447
00:28:50.359 --> 00:28:55.200
do is they shoot out light of wavelength the same

448
00:28:55.240 --> 00:28:58.880
wavelength that sodium atoms a bit. And you'll all remember

449
00:28:59.599 --> 00:29:05.599
the yellowish color of sodium lamps, sodium vapor lamps, which

450
00:29:06.279 --> 00:29:09.359
that's the characteristic color of glowing sodium. But if you

451
00:29:09.480 --> 00:29:13.720
beam a laser up to the upper atmosphere at about

452
00:29:13.799 --> 00:29:15.960
ninety kilometers above the Earth, there is a layer of

453
00:29:16.039 --> 00:29:19.599
sodium and you can excite it to glow like an

454
00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:21.880
artificial star if you pump it up with a laser,

455
00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:24.880
and then you can lock onto that with your adaptive

456
00:29:24.880 --> 00:29:28.079
optic system to remove the twinkling effect of the atmosphere.

457
00:29:28.759 --> 00:29:31.400
So that's one of the new technologies that astronomers use

458
00:29:31.599 --> 00:29:32.200
using laser.

459
00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:36.119
Not to mention also military applications, but we it's a

460
00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:39.079
very sensitive subject. So well there's all that too, Yes,

461
00:29:39.200 --> 00:29:41.640
that's right, say nothing more about that at the moment.

462
00:29:41.799 --> 00:29:44.400
Yeah, that's a great story.

463
00:29:44.440 --> 00:29:46.880
If you'd like to read read all about it, you

464
00:29:46.960 --> 00:29:50.720
can do that at Sidetechdaily dot com. And being an

465
00:29:50.759 --> 00:29:56.599
ASSA project, you probably find it on their website as well. Okay,

466
00:29:56.720 --> 00:30:02.480
we take all for space nuts, from one mission to another,

467
00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:06.319
from Psyche to europea clipper. We could not finish the

468
00:30:06.359 --> 00:30:09.759
show without mentioning that it is now up and running.

469
00:30:09.960 --> 00:30:14.319
Europa Clipper is a go and was launched this week

470
00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:14.839
our time.

471
00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:21.160
Indeed it was, and so far everything's functioning perfectly. It

472
00:30:21.319 --> 00:30:26.799
has already unfurled its solar panels, which I think I'm

473
00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:32.240
right in saying are the biggest in the biggest solar

474
00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:36.000
panels that have been used for an interplanetary mission. They're

475
00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:40.200
thirty one meters long, which is a lass. What's that

476
00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:41.839
one hundred feet are there about it?

477
00:30:43.359 --> 00:30:49.680
That's about the size of your average caravan. No, once

478
00:30:49.720 --> 00:30:52.440
you get around, yeah, what did you get stuck behind?

479
00:30:52.599 --> 00:30:53.000
Exactly?

480
00:30:54.200 --> 00:30:57.680
So it's yeah, So it's on its way. It's going

481
00:30:57.759 --> 00:31:03.920
to enter orbit around Jupiter, even though it's looking at Europa,

482
00:31:04.640 --> 00:31:06.759
one of Jupiter's moons. It will be in orbit around

483
00:31:06.799 --> 00:31:10.039
Jupiter from Is twenty thirty is when it will arrive.

484
00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:19.279
It will make. It has a four year lifetime and

485
00:31:19.480 --> 00:31:24.200
during that time we'll make forty nine flybys of Europa.

486
00:31:24.839 --> 00:31:27.160
The water world, the ice world that we know is

487
00:31:27.240 --> 00:31:31.440
orbiting Jupiter, a rocky body with all a global ocean

488
00:31:31.519 --> 00:31:33.079
over the top of it and a layer of ice

489
00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:36.480
over the top of that. So every three weeks or

490
00:31:36.519 --> 00:31:40.240
so it will sail past Europa, which is why it's

491
00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:42.680
called the Europa Clipper, because that's what it's going to do,

492
00:31:43.279 --> 00:31:48.599
ye past Europa and it's it will you know, it's

493
00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:52.880
festooned with things like ice penetrating radar and all of

494
00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:56.599
that sort of stuff that will allow us to detect

495
00:31:57.480 --> 00:32:01.079
what sort of content the water beneath the ocean might have.

496
00:32:01.799 --> 00:32:06.680
It will also we think, like Saturn's moon Enceladus, Europa

497
00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:12.599
has plumes of ice coming from its polar regions and

498
00:32:12.839 --> 00:32:15.240
so Europa Clipper will fly through those and it's got

499
00:32:15.319 --> 00:32:18.640
equipment on board that will say whether there are any

500
00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:27.519
perhaps suggestions of prebiotic molecules in the water or even biomarkers.

501
00:32:27.640 --> 00:32:30.759
Maybe we might discover that there's something in that water

502
00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:34.319
ice that tells you that there is life beneath the

503
00:32:34.559 --> 00:32:37.279
icy surface of Europa. That would be the discovery of

504
00:32:37.319 --> 00:32:39.759
the sension still bedding on krill.

505
00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:44.440
I've got very very long odds on a detecting whale song.

506
00:32:45.039 --> 00:32:48.440
But well that's right. Well, so might be there.

507
00:32:49.039 --> 00:32:50.480
Wouldn't that be the extraordinary?

508
00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:50.839
Yeah?

509
00:32:51.039 --> 00:32:54.200
Probably, it'll probably be squid. Science fiction always seems to

510
00:32:54.240 --> 00:32:58.400
go to the squid, like yes, discoveries on these kinds

511
00:32:58.440 --> 00:32:58.759
of world.

512
00:32:58.880 --> 00:33:02.720
Yeah, it could be, could be.

513
00:33:03.039 --> 00:33:05.079
Yes, Ut least I have something to eat when we

514
00:33:05.200 --> 00:33:05.880
finally go there.

515
00:33:06.920 --> 00:33:09.680
But it's very exciting. It's a long mission.

516
00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:11.680
If you've got a job on this mission, you could

517
00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:14.559
be pretty happy because you've probably been involved long enough

518
00:33:14.599 --> 00:33:15.680
to get long service leave.

519
00:33:15.799 --> 00:33:18.400
So it's a big mibb.

520
00:33:19.559 --> 00:33:21.960
Yes, that's right, And it'll probably.

521
00:33:21.799 --> 00:33:24.680
Lasts longer than the four years that they've given it,

522
00:33:24.759 --> 00:33:27.359
because that seems to be the norm these days with

523
00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:29.240
some of these spacecraft.

524
00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:30.119
They just keep going.

525
00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:33.000
I mean, look at the Voyagers and all those things

526
00:33:33.039 --> 00:33:36.400
that are still trundling around on Mars that we thought

527
00:33:36.440 --> 00:33:40.960
would be forever gone long ago, and they're still working.

528
00:33:41.400 --> 00:33:43.759
Everything seems to work well past it's use by date

529
00:33:43.880 --> 00:33:47.640
these days, which is a good thing. We'll probably possibly

530
00:33:47.680 --> 00:33:49.960
get more out of it, unless they're planning to crash

531
00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:50.880
it into something for it.

532
00:33:50.960 --> 00:33:51.240
Are they?

533
00:33:51.319 --> 00:33:51.720
I don't know.

534
00:33:52.119 --> 00:33:55.119
I don't know what the mission is, but you're right,

535
00:33:55.200 --> 00:33:57.720
that was exactly what I was thinking, because in some ways,

536
00:33:57.759 --> 00:33:59.759
it's a kin to Cassini, which was in orbit to

537
00:34:00.119 --> 00:34:05.319
satur And the reason why it was crashed into Saturn's

538
00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:11.199
atmosphere to melt basically by friction, is in order to

539
00:34:11.280 --> 00:34:15.480
avoid any suspicion of contamination by some of the moons

540
00:34:15.519 --> 00:34:18.679
of Saturn that may contain living organisms. So maybe a

541
00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:23.280
similar fate, It's bless you, maybe a similar fate away.

542
00:34:23.320 --> 00:34:25.960
It's Europa Clipper at the end of its life.

543
00:34:26.679 --> 00:34:27.480
That was my wife.

544
00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:31.119
It's become part of the program that she has to

545
00:34:31.159 --> 00:34:33.119
sneeze at least once during a recording section.

546
00:34:33.719 --> 00:34:35.679
I'm just grateful that it wasn't me sniffing.

547
00:34:36.320 --> 00:34:38.800
Yeah, the thing is she'd probably do about twenty five

548
00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:39.840
more before she's finished.

549
00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:43.360
She only sneezes once a week, but she does them

550
00:34:43.360 --> 00:34:45.239
all at once. Oh gosh.

551
00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:49.280
Yeah, that's a great story, and europea clipper on its way.

552
00:34:49.880 --> 00:34:54.039
So sit back, relax, get yourself hurt, spin a collad

553
00:34:55.039 --> 00:34:57.360
and we'll get back to you in twenty thirty.

554
00:34:58.119 --> 00:35:01.800
So yeah, we probably Well that's the tough part about you.

555
00:35:02.519 --> 00:35:04.679
You've got to be patient. You've got to be patient.

556
00:35:05.519 --> 00:35:09.360
You can find that story on the NASA dot Gov website.

557
00:35:09.519 --> 00:35:12.360
We're just about done. Don't forget to visit our website.

558
00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:16.559
As well while you're online Space Nuts podcast dot comspacenuts

559
00:35:16.599 --> 00:35:18.440
dot io and have a look around.

560
00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:18.920
Don't forget.

561
00:35:18.960 --> 00:35:22.079
We've got the Astronomy Daily news feed there that you

562
00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:26.800
can subscribe to. You can communicate with us via the

563
00:35:26.960 --> 00:35:28.840
am a link up the top.

564
00:35:28.920 --> 00:35:29.079
There.

565
00:35:29.360 --> 00:35:31.280
You can visit the shop if you've got the old

566
00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:34.719
Christmas is coming up. You know, if you've got Astronomy

567
00:35:34.760 --> 00:35:37.320
nuts in the family, you might find something really juicy

568
00:35:37.400 --> 00:35:40.239
there that you can get somebody for Christmas. Whether it's

569
00:35:40.239 --> 00:35:41.920
a T shirt or a cap or a book or

570
00:35:43.159 --> 00:35:46.079
there's all sorts of stuff. Space Nuts podcast dot Com

571
00:35:46.840 --> 00:35:50.199
is the site and we are done. Fred, thank you

572
00:35:50.320 --> 00:35:50.719
so much.

573
00:35:51.760 --> 00:35:53.880
It's a pleasure. Thank you for having me and great

574
00:35:53.920 --> 00:35:54.880
to see you again. Andrew.

575
00:35:55.559 --> 00:35:57.719
Always good to have you along, Fred, Otherwise I'd be

576
00:35:57.760 --> 00:36:04.199
sitting here just doing that getting RSI of the thumbs.

577
00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:07.840
Yes, thanks Red, Fred, Wat's an astronomer at large.

578
00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:10.159
And thanks to here in the studio for being so

579
00:36:10.400 --> 00:36:13.119
very patient and sitting back for four weeks waiting for

580
00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:16.079
me to get back from Turkey and from me Andrew

581
00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:17.800
uncle you thanks for your company. Catch you on the

582
00:36:17.880 --> 00:36:21.800
very next episode of Space Nuts. Bye bye, Thanks.

583
00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:25.239
You'll be listening to the Space Nuts podcast.

584
00:36:26.360 --> 00:36:32.400
Available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or your favorite podcast player.

585
00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:35.400
You can also stream on demand at bites dot com.

586
00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:39.880
This has been another quality podcast production from nights dot com.
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