Sept. 12, 2024

#451: Unexplained Starliner Noises, Ganymede's Cataclysm & Black Hole Jet Discoveries

#451: Unexplained Starliner Noises, Ganymede's Cataclysm & Black Hole Jet Discoveries

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Join Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson in this...

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This episode of Space Nuts is brought to you by Incogni...looking after your online privacy with no hassles. To check out our special Space Nuts deal, visit www.incogni.com/spacenuts
Join Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson in this riveting episode of Space Nuts, where they delve into mysterious noises, cosmic impacts, black hole jets, and the debate over extraterrestrial life.
Episode Highlights:
- Mysterious Noises in the Boeing Starliner: Strange noises are coming from inside the Boeing Starliner, even though it’s empty. Discover what might be causing these eerie sounds.
- Ganymede's Massive Impact: Learn about the colossal asteroid that struck Jupiter’s largest moon, Ganymede, with a force greater than the one that wiped out the dinosaurs on Earth.
- Black Hole Jets: Scientists have made new discoveries about the jets of plasma shooting from black holes. Find out how they recreated these phenomena in a lab.
- Believing in Aliens: The ongoing debate about extraterrestrial life and the problems arising from conspiracy theories. Why do so many people believe in alien visitations?
- - 00:00:00 Andrew Dunkley: Coming up on this episode of Space Nuts
- - 00:01:32 Fred Watson Watson: Hallie, Andrew. I'm here for more, but I'll give less, just to be contrary.
- - 00:03:45 Discussing the Boeing Starliner and the strange noises reported by astronaut Butch Wilmore.
- - 00:15:20 The impact on Ganymede by an asteroid 20 times the mass of the one that hit Earth.
- - 00:28:10 New findings about black hole jets and how they were recreated in a lab.
- - 00:40:00 The debate over extraterrestrial life and the rise of conspiracy theories.
- For more Space Nuts, including our continually updating newsfeed, visit our website at spacenutspodcast.com. Follow us on social media at SpaceNutsPod on facebook, X, YouTube Music, and TikTok. We love engaging with our community, so be sure to drop us a message or comment on your favourite platform. For more Space and Astronomy News Podcasts, visit our HQ at www.bitesz.com. Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/space-nuts/support. Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.

 

 

WEBVTT

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Hi there, thanks for joining us again.

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This is Space Nuts where we talk astronomy and space science.

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My name is Andrew Dunkley. Coming up on this episode,

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we will.

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Be looking at more more to the point listening in

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on the Boeing star Liner. The reports are that strange

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noises are coming from inside and nobody's in there, so

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what could it be. We'll also be taking a look

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at the history of gamming meed. It apparently took a

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hit by an asteroid that was bigger than the one

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that killed off the dinosaurs on Earth. We will be

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revisiting the story about black hole jets.

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They think they've figured something out and believing in aliens.

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Do you believe in aliens?

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Well, if you do, you might want to listen in

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on this story because some are saying this is becoming

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a problem.

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This is all coming up on the next edition right

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now of Space Nuts.

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Fifteen second gads in channel ten nine ignition.

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Sequence Space Nuts or three.

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Two more on Space Nurse as when I reported Bills good.

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And he's back again for more. It is Professor Fred.

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What's that astronomer at large? Hello Fred, Andrew, I'm here

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for more, but I'll give less.

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Just you know a big contrary.

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Yeah, less is more though fred as we know, Yes,

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indeed heard that saying a few times over the years,

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and it's not true in golf, so let's just appoint

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the more unless you're playing a Stableford Stableford, a Stableford

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which was named after a man named Stableford, believe it

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or not exact, And what is it? It's where you

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get points rather than you get points for you score,

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so you always score. I get two points for a par,

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three for a birdie, four for an eagle, five for

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an albatross, which no one ever gets, or you only

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get one point for a bogie and nothing for anything

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worse than that. But there are variations of it, but

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that's the one we play until less is less, Yes,

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less is less, yes, exactly right. Or if you hit

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it less you get more, so it can go that

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way too.

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It's a weird game. It is a strange game, golf'sip

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game of opposites.

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You hit down to get the ball up, you hit

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left to go right, you swing right to go left.

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It's no wonder. No one can play the damn game.

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And when you get to the end, and you should

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feel glum, you feel happy.

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Yeah, that doesn't happen. It generally feels one.

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Yeah, that's one of the can.

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We can we talk about the Boeing star Line because

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it's in the news at the moment. I know, we're

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sort of recording it a little bit ahead of time,

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so the story may well have changed by the time

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this comes out. But the Boeing star Liner, as you know,

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is kind of stranded and the astronauts are stuck on

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the International Space Station. From what I've heard until about February,

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they're trying to figure out how to bring the star

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Liner back. There's been talk of sending it back empty.

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In the meantime, Fred, there's been some weird noises coming

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from inside you. You obviously heard about this too, because

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we both thought we should talk about it.

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Yeah.

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I have got a recording that was provided by NASA,

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which is a conversation between mission control and astronaut Butch

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Wilmore and I'll let it sort of pan itself out

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before we discuss what the probable noise is.

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It's a strange noise coming through the speaker, and I

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didn't know if you could connect into the Starliner and

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let me here. I don't know what's making it, but

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I don't know for something that's maybe connected between here

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and there making that happen. But anyway, can you did

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it and we can con hear that.

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Butch, give us a minute and i'll call you back.

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Whens ready, that's all right.

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But that one came through.

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It was kind of like a pulsing noise, almost like

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a ming. Now one more time in large, what's going on?

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Here we go?

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Yeah, So that was astronaut Butch Will Moore on the

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International Space Station conveying his concerns or at least asking

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NASA to investigate this odd noise coming from inside, uh,

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the star liner, and they've been trying to figure out

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what it is. Now I know the answer now, But

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when I first heard it, I hadn't read the story,

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and my immediate thought was audio feedback. That's exactly what

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I thought it was, and that's what they believe.

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It might be a feedback loop.

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Yeah.

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Well, if you listen to audio all the time, you'd

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probably been in many studios where there's feedback that you

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don't we and it sounds like that.

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It does.

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In fact, when I worked for the ABC, if you

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didn't push the magic button before you went on air,

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the satellite.

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Fed back through all.

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The transmitters, so everybody who was listening would have got

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that sound almost exactly like that. So, yes, you've got

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to call very quickly from Master Control in Sydney if

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you didn't push the orange button. It was the green

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orange button too, because it was actually marked orange because

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that's where the line went from Dubbo to a city

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called Orange just down the road, and so they had

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orange written on the button, but the button was green,

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so we affectionately called it the green orange button.

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Yeah, well that's exactly the description and it's the green

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but yeah, feedback.

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It turns out it was probably feedback in the audio systems.

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So easily solved. But it must have sounded weird to them,

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this noise that probably did worry for a minute. Who

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has got into that?

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You know?

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Is this somebody from outside our vicinity on planet Earth

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or what sounds?

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It certainly sounds like someone trying to get in?

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Yes she does. Yeah.

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Anyway, problem solved. Well, you know, mystery solved. I don't

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know if they've solved the problem.

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They certainly haven't solved the problem of the star Liners issues,

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but they're working on it.

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It will, we believe by the time this goes to

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Are I suspect it will be back on Earth? Yeah,

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because the serious talk of when it when it will

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come back?

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So okay, Fred, let's move on, Annymeade, this is an

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interesting world.

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It is.

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Uh.

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Well, it suffered a similar incident to that of Earth

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so many million years ago, when Earth was struck by

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an asteroid that basically obliterated most of the life on

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the planet, including the end of the end for the dinosaurs.

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I think they were already in trouble, but this asteroid

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finished the job. Well, now they've been looking at the

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history of Ganymede, Jupiter's largest moon, and it looks like

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it took a similar hit some time ago. In fact,

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that asteroid was much much bigger.

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Yes, it would have to be, because the modeling that

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has been done by a group based if I remember

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rightly in Japan, that modeling shows that the whatever it

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was that hit Jupiter's moon gun Imede, was enough to

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tilt it to change its axis. And that's big stuff.

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That's big time stuff. You don't you know, you can

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clout it with something small and it might destroy a

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biosphere or muck it around like the like the chick

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selub asteroid did that wiped out the dinosaurs, But to

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change the way an object ro takes that is really

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something hefty. And the thinking is that the asteroid that

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hit Ganymede was probably twenty times the mass of the

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asteroid that hit our planet and got rid of those

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naughty dinosaurs back in the day.

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So and the.

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Study comes is practiced scientists at Cobber University and elsewhere.

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What they've done is looked at surface features on Ganymede,

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and in particular there are what are usually called furrows.

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They're probably is when you you know, when you get

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down to the scale of what they look like, we

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call them furrows and their concentric circles they're in They're

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not just you know, things that stripes across the across

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the disc of Ganymede. They are centric concentric circles. And

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the diameters measured in thousands of kilometers. Remember Ganymede is

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bigger than the planet Mercury's Yea, with diameters well of

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the five thousand kilometers. So the what what these startists

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have done is looked at these circles and in particular

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looked at kind of where the center is the center

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of what's called the furrow system. I suppose you think

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of furrowed brows and things like that, but that's what

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they are. And it turns out that that center is

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exactly opposite where Jupiter is in the sky of Ganymede,

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because like most moons next to a big planet, Ganymede

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is tidally locked in its dance around the planet Jupiter.

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It's tidally locked, so it always faces the same side

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to Jupiter.

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This is.

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Telling you that the center of the Ferro system is

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directly opposite where Jupiter is in the sky. This has

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led these scientists to do modeling as to how that

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could have occurred, and sure enough, something big has hit it.

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Only a large impact could have moved the rotational axis

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of Ganymede in the way that we think it has happened.

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So yeah, really quite significant discovery, some really very nice

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planetary geology.

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If I can call it that, that's.

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Gone into this study and.

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Very much an outcome that we think might change our

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understanding of Ganymede.

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And we're talking about an asteroid that was three hundred

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killer made as in diameter something like that, which is

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about one hundred what about one hundred and eighty miles

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in diameter.

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Yeah, would be about Yeah, that's a big rock. It

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is a big rock.

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Yes, we would not had that hit the Earth, we

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would have probably had a global extinction of everything because

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the effect on the planet's atmosphere and biosphere would have

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been devastating.

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And would and you'd have to say that would be irrecoverable.

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Life would not have developed at all.

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It may have done, It may, but it might have

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had to start again, you know, Yeah, from whatever processes

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started life three point eight or thereabouts million years ago,

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billion years ago.

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Yeah, you might be going back.

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To square one, which it sort of may have happened anyway,

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you know, in the in the earliest history of the

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of the planet, because it went through various phases. We

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talked not very long ago about snowball Earth, which actually

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wasn't that long ago, seven hundred million years ago, but

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in its early history it probably had all kinds of

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weird and wonderful phases that it went through.

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And how long ago did this happen again? Anyway, four

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billion years.

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Ago something like that, that's correct, And that's the time

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when the you know, the Solar system was pretty wild

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and wooly.

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There was still a lot of.

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Debris from leftover from the formation of the planets, like

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large asteroids, which was swilling around the Solar System. It

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may even have been that, you know, Ganymede was only

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just tethered to the planet Jupiter at that time. It

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probably may even have been itself a very hot world

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because four billion years ago, you know, the Solar systems

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only four point six or four point seven billion years old,

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so you're talking about very early time in the history

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of our Solar System, and things would have been very

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different from what they are now.

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Yeah, what would have happened to the asteroid? Would it

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be absorbed into Ganymade or because it made a crater,

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like a massive crater of sixteen hundred kiliopmeters or something

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in diameter.

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That's right, So you're absolutely right.

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We think that Ganymede is an ice world, that it

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has a very thick layer of ice, probably you know,

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one hundred and fifty kilometer thick, much thicker than what

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we think Enceladus has. But of course gannymade is much

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much larger, larger than Enceladus or Europa, and underneath that

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layer of ice there is an ocean. We think we

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have very good reason for believing that, and that is

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probably where the debris lies. It's probably been absorbed into

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the ice crust of Ganymede.

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So if we got close enough as it rotates, we

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could hear a rattling, scraping sound that the.

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Asteroid churning around underneath the Iceler. I suspect it probably

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got obliterated, but there should be rocky debris from it,

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you would think, which might well be something that the

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first time we send a lander to Gunnymede that sort

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of lands among the furrows, which might be quite hazardous actually,

250
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But once you do that, you might very well be

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able to look for evidence of the you know, the

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devastation of this asteroid, the bits and pieces that are

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left over from that that cataclysmic.

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I know people are saying, ask the question. Andrew asked

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the question, So I'll ask the question, how do we

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know this happened? How is it just because we're looking

257
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at the surface, going oh right, what apeny?

258
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Or is it something else in play?

259
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No, you're right, absolutely right, because I've skirted over that.

260
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So the the concentric circles what to tell you that

261
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there was an impact event.

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That's you know, the basically the debris kind of quasi

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quasi crater. Uh.

264
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But it's the it's the the position of this in

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relation to the direction to Jupiter that suggests that the

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that the rotation axis of Jupiter has changed.

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And that's.

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Probably because of the the way the planet rotates about Jupiter.

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You you you.

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Expect, Yes, it's because there's a misalignment of the rotation

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axis with Jupiter. Even though it's tidally locked, you've got

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this misalignment. Sorry, I'm finding trying to find the right

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word to describe it. So the direction to Jupiter is

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different from what you'd expect given the rotation axis that

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Ganymi chose. So when you think about it, you know,

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the way our moon rotates, it goes around once per lunation,

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once every time it revolves around the planet, and its

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rotation axis is almost perpendicular to its orbits.

279
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But Ganymie doesn't. That's the that's the bottom line, okay, Right,

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if you'd ask an Australian scientist what it was, they

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would have said, it's out of whack.

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Well, they might also say, well everything's gone.

283
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Bunk, everything's gone bang, it's out of whack. Yeah, that's

284
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what it was, all right.

285
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So yeah, fascinating history and one big collision. Wouldn't you

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have loved or have been able to film that and

287
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put it on Instagram? This, Yes, and you can find

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that story on Cosmos magazine website. This is Space Nuts

289
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with Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson.

290
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Nero Pace Nuts. It's going to take some medicine, Fred,

291
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this medicine here.

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Hang on, let me look, let me see thee oh oh,

293
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that's interesting looking medicine.

294
00:17:21.880 --> 00:17:30.000
Yeah, yes it is. It's called molot No, could be

295
00:17:30.039 --> 00:17:35.480
something similar. All right, let's move on and we'll talk.

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We talk now about black hole jets.

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Now.

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We've done a story about them, only very recently, but

299
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it's back in the news. There's more to be told

300
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about these black hole jets. And this is something we

301
00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:49.359
get questions about so very often.

302
00:17:49.400 --> 00:17:49.720
Fred.

303
00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:54.759
We do because it's kind of counterintuitive. You've got a

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black hole from which you know nothing can escape because

305
00:17:58.759 --> 00:18:02.039
it's a black hole, and yet it has around it

306
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a swirling disc of material which itself is propelling jets

307
00:18:08.279 --> 00:18:11.480
of plasma to the north and south of the black hole.

308
00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:15.240
In other words, perpendicular to this disc of material, and

309
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we glibally say that's due to the magnetic field of

310
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the black hole.

311
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Rotating.

312
00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:26.319
Black holes do have my magnetic fields, but the details

313
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of that I think have been well largely theoretical until

314
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now when scientists at the PPPL, which is the Princeton

315
00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:42.839
Plasma Physics Laboratory in New Jersey, they've actually done it.

316
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They've created a black hole, not quite but created the

317
00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:53.759
plasma that would come from the material surrounding a black hole,

318
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so it's a high energy density plasma. They did it

319
00:18:57.839 --> 00:19:03.000
by shooting a very very powerful pulse laser at a

320
00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:08.119
plastic target, so that creates the plasma, and they you know,

321
00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:13.079
they've created basically nuclear fusion in a little fuel capsule

322
00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:17.359
and got from that protons and X rays, all the

323
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stuff that they think would be in this disc of

324
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material rotating around a black hole. But what happens is

325
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the way the X rays and the streams of protons

326
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interfere with the high energy density plasma, or the way

327
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they interact with it involves very very strong magnetic fields,

328
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which do the sort of thing that magnetic fields do

329
00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:48.680
on the Sun. They break and recombine. And what they've

330
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done is essentially seen how you can create a straight,

331
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narrow line of plasma.

332
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I'm going to read some some.

333
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Comments by one of the researchers, Will Fox at pppl

334
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our experiment was unique because we could directly see the

335
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magnetic field changing over time. We could directly observe how

336
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the field gets pushed out and responds to the plasma

337
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in a type of tug of war. Another comment from

338
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one of the other researchers. When we did the experiment

339
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and analyze the data, we discovered we had something big observing.

340
00:20:32.119 --> 00:20:37.599
Magneto Raleigh tailor instabilities arising from the interaction of plasma

341
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and magnetic field had long been thought to occur, but

342
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I'd never been directly observed until now. This observation helps

343
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to confirm that this instability occurs when expanding plasma beats

344
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magnetic fields. So the gobbledegoog word there is magneto Raleigh

345
00:20:55.799 --> 00:21:01.519
tailor instability. It's described very nicely buy space dot com

346
00:21:02.359 --> 00:21:07.799
as a bubbling and frothing of the plasma. It slushes

347
00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:12.079
against the magnetic field lines bubbles and froths and gives you.

348
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This instability creates shapes in the magnetic field that looks

349
00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:21.440
like that look like whirls and mushrooms. But this is

350
00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:27.039
the tricky bit here, Andrew. As that energy decreases, then

351
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like they do on the Sun, the magnetic field lines

352
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could snap back rather than creating this froth of magnetism.

353
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And when they do.

354
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That, you get a compression of the plasma into this

355
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jet of material, just like we see coming from black

356
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holes in the centers of galaxies. So an experiment that

357
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basically duplicates what happens in the plasma surrounding a black hole.

358
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Remarkable stuff, and you need a high energy physics laboratory

359
00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:57.240
to do it. It's not the sort of thing you

360
00:21:57.240 --> 00:22:00.599
can do in your backyard.

361
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:03.200
And we've finally found a good reason to have plastic

362
00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:07.200
which is even better to up it with a twenty

363
00:22:07.319 --> 00:22:07.880
duel laser.

364
00:22:07.960 --> 00:22:10.440
That's right, Yeah, yes, we.

365
00:22:10.359 --> 00:22:11.200
Need to do a lot of that.

366
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So, as I understand it, this has basically opened the

367
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door to improve our understanding of what's happening in space

368
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in terms of these kinds of events, because it's always

369
00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:27.880
been very mysterious. But they've created it in a lab,

370
00:22:28.519 --> 00:22:31.759
which is extraordinary on its own, but now it opens

371
00:22:31.759 --> 00:22:34.079
the door to wider study and understanding.

372
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Is that fairly accurate.

373
00:22:36.200 --> 00:22:40.119
Yeah, that's right. So what they've done, I mean, you know,

374
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the best modeling that we've got with all the supercomputers

375
00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:46.599
doing calculations, theoretical calculations of what you expect to find

376
00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:50.319
in the region around a black hole. You can model

377
00:22:50.319 --> 00:22:52.640
it till the're blue and till you're blue in the face.

378
00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:57.240
But if you can demonstrate it experimentally, and there aren't

379
00:22:57.279 --> 00:23:00.319
many circumstances in astronomy where we can do that because

380
00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:03.160
you can't, for example, build planets and watch how they

381
00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:04.640
distort the space around them.

382
00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:05.880
They're not too.

383
00:23:05.640 --> 00:23:09.279
Big, not really, no, but you can. What you can

384
00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:15.119
do with some some interactions that involve high energies, and

385
00:23:15.160 --> 00:23:19.200
this is clearly one of those, is to build clever experiments.

386
00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:23.599
There was some quite nuanced ways in which this experiment

387
00:23:23.640 --> 00:23:26.720
was carried out. If you can do that and show

388
00:23:26.759 --> 00:23:28.160
that what you get at the end of it is

389
00:23:28.200 --> 00:23:30.759
what you expected to get from the theory, then you

390
00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:33.240
can be much more confident in applying the theory to

391
00:23:33.319 --> 00:23:35.160
a real situation where you've got a black hole in

392
00:23:35.200 --> 00:23:39.319
the central legalaxy. So it's very valuable stuff, and in fact,

393
00:23:39.799 --> 00:23:43.000
you can probably learn more from it because the reality

394
00:23:43.039 --> 00:23:49.440
of doing this with your streaming relativistic plasma that might

395
00:23:49.599 --> 00:23:53.920
teach you other things that your theory wasn't really wasn't

396
00:23:53.960 --> 00:23:59.640
sufficiently finely tuned to show so very valuable experimentation and a.

397
00:23:59.599 --> 00:24:01.039
Great real Yes.

398
00:24:01.079 --> 00:24:03.640
Indeed, if you'd like to read up on that, as

399
00:24:03.640 --> 00:24:05.599
Fred said, it's at space dot com, or you can

400
00:24:05.640 --> 00:24:10.599
read the paper in the Journal Physical Review Research.

401
00:24:11.319 --> 00:24:14.359
This is Space Nuts. Andrew Dunkley here, Fred Watson.

402
00:24:14.039 --> 00:24:19.400
There, Murder your love through your Space nuts.

403
00:24:19.960 --> 00:24:22.279
And we've got one more story, Fred, and this one

404
00:24:22.599 --> 00:24:25.440
is going to get people really kind.

405
00:24:25.200 --> 00:24:26.880
Of well maybe divided.

406
00:24:28.279 --> 00:24:31.880
There are people in the world that believe that aliens

407
00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:35.200
have visited Earth, and there are those that say poppycock.

408
00:24:36.359 --> 00:24:39.880
And now they've been looking into these sorts and claims

409
00:24:39.880 --> 00:24:44.160
and beliefs, and it's starting to become a problem.

410
00:24:44.200 --> 00:24:50.920
Why so, uh, Because yes, because the what it does

411
00:24:51.160 --> 00:24:53.240
is it breeds conspiracy theories.

412
00:24:54.119 --> 00:24:54.920
Because on the.

413
00:24:54.839 --> 00:24:58.960
One hand, you've got you know, the Pentagon and others

414
00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:02.640
saying nothing to see here, and they're being far more

415
00:25:02.799 --> 00:25:04.920
explicit in the way they're saying that now because we're

416
00:25:04.920 --> 00:25:08.519
seeing pictures of what they have seen. But you know,

417
00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:13.599
the scene unidentified anomalous phenomena, but no evidence in any

418
00:25:13.640 --> 00:25:18.160
of that that these are due to extraterrestrial visitations. So

419
00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:21.000
you've got, on the one hand, Pentagon saying that nothing

420
00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:25.519
to see here, and there are large numbers of people saying, well,

421
00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:28.440
we don't believe the Pentagon because they're always keeping secrets,

422
00:25:28.640 --> 00:25:33.279
so they must be there. And so there was a

423
00:25:33.319 --> 00:25:35.720
poll done in twenty nineteen. This is just one of

424
00:25:35.759 --> 00:25:39.119
the statistics that I think is really interesting about this story.

425
00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:44.200
A poll done in twenty nineteen, a Gallup poll found

426
00:25:44.359 --> 00:25:48.119
that sixty eight percent of Americans believe that the US

427
00:25:48.279 --> 00:25:50.720
government knows more about uphos.

428
00:25:50.319 --> 00:25:51.160
Than it is telling.

429
00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:58.559
And you know, that's one reason I think why there's

430
00:25:58.640 --> 00:26:03.240
been much more openness about the Pentagon files, about.

431
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:04.720
This sort of thing than that has been in the past.

432
00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:08.079
We've talked about this before that there was a congressional

433
00:26:08.119 --> 00:26:13.400
hearing not very long ago about these, you know, these documents.

434
00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:20.359
It's it's really, you know, it's it's really that the

435
00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:24.640
idea of conspiracy that is probably the most dangerous thing,

436
00:26:24.640 --> 00:26:27.759
because the more people you've got believe in conspiracies, the

437
00:26:28.039 --> 00:26:31.759
fewer people you've got who are you know, taking a

438
00:26:32.200 --> 00:26:37.799
more a more, how can I say measured line about

439
00:26:37.839 --> 00:26:40.960
things that we don't understand that the bottom line is

440
00:26:41.160 --> 00:26:43.839
and you know, I can say this is a well

441
00:26:44.039 --> 00:26:47.160
semi working as to a physicist. Don't do much research

442
00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:49.759
these days, but I'm still very connected with the with

443
00:26:49.839 --> 00:26:54.799
the field. There is zero evidence, zero evidence of any

444
00:26:54.960 --> 00:27:00.759
visitation by by aliens to our planet. There is nothing

445
00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:05.720
you can present that conclusively proves that. And yet we've

446
00:27:05.720 --> 00:27:09.279
got this huge number that thinks that something's going on

447
00:27:09.319 --> 00:27:13.240
at Roswell for example, the goal yes from us, all

448
00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:14.599
of that in the mix.

449
00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:18.400
There is proof that aliens have not visited Earth. And

450
00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:20.079
that's it's called the Drake equation.

451
00:27:20.960 --> 00:27:24.559
Well, yes, that's right. The Fermi paradox as well. You know,

452
00:27:25.319 --> 00:27:28.359
the Fermi paradox says where are they all? Because we

453
00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:30.119
should be seeing them, but they're not here.

454
00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:30.839
Yeah.

455
00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:35.720
So yeah, I'm just looking at some of the statistics.

456
00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:38.519
Twenty four percent of Americans, so they've seen a UFO.

457
00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:42.880
I'm sure it's similar in other countries. Well, you can't

458
00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:46.880
absolutely say that people have not seen UFO. So it

459
00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:50.039
doesn't mean they're alien spacecraft. It could just be a

460
00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:53.240
jetplane that nobody identified, or the Sun's hitting at a

461
00:27:53.279 --> 00:27:55.480
strange angle, so it looks like a blob instead of

462
00:27:55.480 --> 00:28:00.440
a metal fuselage. There's all sorts of most of them

463
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:05.200
can be explained away.

464
00:28:03.440 --> 00:28:06.000
That's right. Most most of them are the planet Venus.

465
00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:11.920
In fact, yes, yes, absolutely, Lots of people post questions

466
00:28:11.960 --> 00:28:12.759
on social media.

467
00:28:13.000 --> 00:28:14.599
What was that big light in the sky last night?

468
00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:15.519
Yeah it was Venus?

469
00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:21.359
Yeah exactly. I think they're sorry, go ahead, Andrew just

470
00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:24.200
thinking this is not going to go away, because once

471
00:28:24.240 --> 00:28:26.440
people get to be in their bonnet, they don't want

472
00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:26.960
to let it go.

473
00:28:28.880 --> 00:28:35.319
That's correct. And there's there's even a concern that, you know,

474
00:28:35.480 --> 00:28:41.640
there might be an invasion of the roswell side a

475
00:28:41.640 --> 00:28:45.720
bit like there was on the Capital on sixth January.

476
00:28:47.200 --> 00:28:51.720
That's something that has authorities worried. I think that that

477
00:28:51.759 --> 00:28:58.359
could happen. It's also this article, and it's actually it's

478
00:28:58.400 --> 00:29:04.039
basically an article from The Conversation. It's written by Tony Milligan,

479
00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:07.000
who is a research fellow in the philosophy of ethics

480
00:29:07.319 --> 00:29:12.440
at King's College in London. That there is one of

481
00:29:12.440 --> 00:29:14.559
the other elements in this article, which is a really

482
00:29:14.559 --> 00:29:21.160
interesting one, is the way that in popular ideas, popular

483
00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:26.960
conspiracies a lot of First Nations people are being incorporated

484
00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:32.960
into those ideas that you've got First Nations communities who

485
00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:37.039
know a lot more about uphos and things of that

486
00:29:37.079 --> 00:29:40.559
sort than we do. There's a sort of mix in here,

487
00:29:40.599 --> 00:29:43.039
and I think that side of it is one that's

488
00:29:43.039 --> 00:29:47.079
concerning as well, because First Nations people across the world,

489
00:29:47.160 --> 00:29:49.839
including here in Australia and Canada in the United States,

490
00:29:50.200 --> 00:29:54.119
have got creation stories which are fabulous and wonderful to

491
00:29:54.200 --> 00:29:58.240
listen to, and wonderful to align with our understanding of

492
00:29:58.240 --> 00:30:00.000
what's going on in the sky and how it works.

493
00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:04.359
From a side, I think this really started taking off

494
00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:09.359
after World War Two, but in particular in the sixties

495
00:30:09.400 --> 00:30:12.240
and then into the seventies, and there was a really

496
00:30:13.119 --> 00:30:16.000
well made, whether or not it was full of shite

497
00:30:16.119 --> 00:30:20.359
or you know, based on some truths documentary called Chariots

498
00:30:20.359 --> 00:30:24.799
of the Gods, and I think it busted the whole

499
00:30:24.839 --> 00:30:26.400
thing open, to be honest.

500
00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:30.200
The Chariots of the Gods was about the Naskal Lines

501
00:30:30.240 --> 00:30:36.400
and the Naska figures, and yes it's complete fiction, you know,

502
00:30:37.240 --> 00:30:39.519
certainly in the case of the Naskal Lines, you can

503
00:30:39.759 --> 00:30:40.519
there's still.

504
00:30:40.279 --> 00:30:41.880
The pegs that those.

505
00:30:43.160 --> 00:30:46.759
Early Peruvians used to draw them, and bits of string

506
00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:49.200
that they used to make the alignments. They're still there.

507
00:30:49.680 --> 00:30:53.400
You can arbodate them because they're organic material. That was

508
00:30:53.440 --> 00:30:56.880
back in the sixties. You're quite right. It certainly gave

509
00:30:56.960 --> 00:31:00.759
us a lot of interest in that. In that thinking,

510
00:31:02.240 --> 00:31:05.400
I visited the NASCAR lines and talked to people who

511
00:31:05.400 --> 00:31:11.000
are archaeologists in that country specializing in them. There's a

512
00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:14.160
good reason why those lines were drawn and why those

513
00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:17.640
figures were drawn, gigantic figures in the desert, and that's

514
00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:21.279
because they believed that the Shamans, the holy men, and

515
00:31:21.319 --> 00:31:24.640
the nearly all were men were able to fly above

516
00:31:24.680 --> 00:31:29.160
them and see these things on the grounds. That's basically

517
00:31:29.200 --> 00:31:31.720
the bottom line why it was. And some of them

518
00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:35.880
also mark out what you might call processional tracks. There

519
00:31:35.880 --> 00:31:37.480
are things that you could walk along. So there's a

520
00:31:37.519 --> 00:31:41.960
hummingbird that is a beautiful thing on the desert floor

521
00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:45.559
which has an entry and an exit, so people could

522
00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:48.839
walk along in their whatever their rituals were that they

523
00:31:48.839 --> 00:31:51.119
were doing, they followed the path of the hummingbird and

524
00:31:51.160 --> 00:31:53.799
came out, so that there's a lot of study being

525
00:31:53.799 --> 00:31:57.559
done on those lines. But yeah, the characters of the

526
00:31:57.559 --> 00:31:59.920
gods kicked it all off for sure.

527
00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:01.160
Yeah, that that hummingbird.

528
00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:04.279
I think people who do that walk they come out

529
00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:07.599
just below the back of the wings, behind the legs.

530
00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:11.480
That's where the exit is, right, I think there is

531
00:32:11.480 --> 00:32:12.119
an exit there.

532
00:32:12.200 --> 00:32:12.839
Yes, I believe that.

533
00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:16.039
Yes, I'm sure there is. I'm sure there is.

534
00:32:16.119 --> 00:32:19.200
But yeah, I mean, when you've got presidents and high

535
00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:24.400
profile politicians talking about releasing information about what the Pentagon

536
00:32:24.519 --> 00:32:27.279
knows and what the US government knows about these kinds

537
00:32:27.319 --> 00:32:29.720
of things, it just stirs the pot, doesn't it.

538
00:32:29.599 --> 00:32:31.200
It just goes on and on and on.

539
00:32:32.359 --> 00:32:33.079
Yes, that's right.

540
00:32:34.119 --> 00:32:37.559
So the more open you can be, the less likely

541
00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:39.880
you are to get conspiracy theories. But there might be,

542
00:32:40.079 --> 00:32:43.519
you know, there still might happen whether you're open or not.

543
00:32:43.720 --> 00:32:46.960
Simple, I think we're way too far down the track

544
00:32:47.039 --> 00:32:49.880
for this to people. Doesn't it brought under control to

545
00:32:49.920 --> 00:32:53.319
be perfectly honest. Yeah, But it's a fascinating story, a

546
00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:58.519
really good read. You can find that at now where

547
00:32:58.640 --> 00:32:58.960
was it?

548
00:32:59.400 --> 00:33:03.559
Fears dot or It is indeed on fizz dot org,

549
00:33:03.559 --> 00:33:05.240
but it's also on the Conversation that's where.

550
00:33:05.319 --> 00:33:08.240
Yeah, Conversations got a great article on it as well.

551
00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:09.079
Check them out.

552
00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:12.400
That brings us to the end. Don't forget to visit

553
00:33:12.599 --> 00:33:17.920
us online if you are so desire and check us out.

554
00:33:17.960 --> 00:33:20.400
You can send questions through the AMA link, or you

555
00:33:20.440 --> 00:33:22.920
can read the Astronomy Daily news feed and sign up

556
00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:25.519
for that. You can go to our shop and see

557
00:33:25.519 --> 00:33:29.920
what's on offer all sorts of Space Nuts bits and pieces,

558
00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:33.880
and you can also support us through the support Space

559
00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:37.720
Nuts button if you would like to do that. And

560
00:33:37.759 --> 00:33:41.079
if you do follow us on any social media platforms,

561
00:33:41.119 --> 00:33:44.559
please don't forget to like us, follow us.

562
00:33:44.559 --> 00:33:48.359
Or subscribe, depending on which platform it is. Fred, we're

563
00:33:48.359 --> 00:33:49.799
all done. Thank you very much, sir.

564
00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:54.799
It's a pleasure, always, very good to talk about all

565
00:33:54.839 --> 00:33:57.599
the stuff that we talk about. Yes, yes, I'm sure

566
00:33:57.640 --> 00:34:00.680
some of these stories will spawn questions doubt about that,

567
00:34:01.480 --> 00:34:04.039
which we'll answer in later episodes. Thanks Fred, we'll see

568
00:34:04.039 --> 00:34:04.359
you soon.

569
00:34:05.319 --> 00:34:05.880
Sounds good.

570
00:34:05.880 --> 00:34:09.800
Thank you, Fred Watson, Astronomer at Large and Hugh in

571
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:14.079
the studio. Has been incredibly quiet today, very very quiet,

572
00:34:14.920 --> 00:34:18.239
which is quite normal and from me Andrew Dunkley, thanks

573
00:34:18.280 --> 00:34:19.719
for your company. We'll see you on the very next

574
00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:21.239
episode of Space Nuts.

575
00:34:21.320 --> 00:34:26.519
Bye bye snus. You'll be listening to the Space Nuts podcast.

576
00:34:27.519 --> 00:34:33.559
Available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, all your favorite podcast player.

577
00:34:33.719 --> 00:34:36.880
You can also stream on demand at bytes dot com.

578
00:34:37.039 --> 00:34:42.760
This has been another quality podcast production from nights dot com.
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