Aug. 22, 2024

#445: Snowball Earth Theories, Dinosaur Asteroid Origins, and the Hubble Tension Resolved

#445: Snowball Earth Theories, Dinosaur Asteroid Origins, and the Hubble Tension Resolved

Hi there. Thanks for joining us on another episode of Space Nuts. Andrew Dunkley here and it's good to have your company. Coming up on this episode we're going to be looking at snowball Earth. There was a time where it was just a frozen sphere of...

Hi there. Thanks for joining us on another episode of Space Nuts. Andrew Dunkley here and it's good to have your company. Coming up on this episode we're going to be looking at snowball Earth. There was a time where it was just a frozen sphere of nothingness for, well, billions of years. Now they have a new theory about that and it's no Irish joke. There's a clue in there. The dinosaur asteroid's origin has been revealed. Yep. The thing that started the getting rid of them all across the planet. We know where it came from. And the so-called crisis in cosmology might not be a crisis at all. We're talking about the Hubble tension. We'll talk about all of that on this episode of Space Nuts.
Chapters

  • Snowball Earth: Discover the new theory about Earth's frozen past and the rocks in Scotland and Australia that provide clues.
  • - Dinosaur Asteroid's Origin: Learn about the new study revealing the origin of the asteroid that led to the extinction of the dinosaurs.
  • - Crisis in Cosmology: Delve into the Hubble tension and why it might not be a crisis after all.
  • - Chinese High-Speed Engine: Explore the claims of a new Chinese engine that could revolutionise air travel with speeds up to 19,700 km/h.
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  • Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.
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WEBVTT

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Hi there, thanks for joining us on another episode of

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Space Nuts. Andrew Dunkley here, and it's good to have

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your company. Coming up on this episode, we're going to

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be looking at Snowball Earth. There was a time where

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it was just a frozen sphere of nothingness for well

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billions of years. Now they have a new theory about that,

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and it's no Irish joke. There's a clue in there.

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The dinosaur asteroid's origin has been revealed. Yep, the thing

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that started the getting rid of them all across the planet.

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We know where it came from. And the so called

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crisis in cosmology might not be a crisis at all.

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We're talking about the hubble tension. We'll talk about all

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of that on this episode of Space Nuts fifteen in

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Channel ten nine ignition sequence Space Nuts or three.

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Two review on space as When I report it, Neils

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good and.

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To help us unravel all of that, decipher it and

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use his codebook to figure a few more things out,

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is professor I've Fred what's an astronomer at large? Hello Fred,

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Hello Andrew, keep up the good work there.

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It's going very well.

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It's good to see you now. I just I thought

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i'd sort of start out a left field because I

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spotted a story only today actually which dovetails with something

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we talked about some time ago, and that was the

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work that's being done to perfect engine technology to achieve

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greater speeds for interstellar travel in years to come, or

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maybe not interstellar but into planetary perhaps. And we know

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NASA is working on this kind of technology to create

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really fast and high performance engines. They're working with I

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think it's general electric to achieve that. They may have

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been gazumped, Fred, have you heard about this?

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Uh?

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No, the Chinese. The Chinese claim to have developed a

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new engine that can achieve a speed of twelve thousand

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miles per hour or nineteen seven hundred kilometers an hour,

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and the aircraft can reach an altitude of thirty kilometers.

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Now you compare that to the concord. It's Mac sixteen

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versus Mac two, which is an extraordinary claim. Now, apparently

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they've released a paper which has been peer reviewed from

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what I understand, and it's not April or first, I'm

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confident of that. So they reckon that they've made this

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leap in technology to develop a Mac sixteen engine, And

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just think of this thread, you'd be able to fly

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from Sydney to New York in fifty minutes.

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Yes, fifty minutes.

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That's extraordinary if it's real, and I don't see why

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it wouldn't be, but you never know with these things.

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But apparently, according to the paper, the engine operates in

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two modes. There's a continuous rotating detonation engine, which is

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a scary thing in itself by the sound of it,

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which will get it to mark seven and the air

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and the fuel create a rotating shockwave with continuous thrust.

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And then a straight line oblique detonation engine which fires

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above mark seven and pushes it all the way to

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mark sixteen. It sounds amazing, sounds amazing. How far short

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they are of getting this into production, I don't know,

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but it certainly sounds like it's in development. That would

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be amazing to be able to achieve those kinds of speeds.

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It would revolutionize travel around the world.

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It's been done already by yeah, the British have been

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working on this for decades now. With then it's an

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air breathing It's a hybrid engine that breathes there at

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low altitudes and turns into a rocket motor when you

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get above the atmosphere.

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Yeah, I think I did hear about that. I did

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not go to those sort of space.

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Yeah, well it can. It's capable of entering orbit, so

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it can get up to you know, twenty six thousand

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kilometers an hour. But it's then acting as a rocket motor,

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so it's the project was called well hotel was the

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style of thing, horizontal takeoff and landing, so it flies

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like a plane, takes off like a plane with the

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air burning jet engines, just gradually accelerates, clicks over into

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being a rocket motor when the atmosphere gets too rarefied,

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and then sends you up to orbit. As I remember right,

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I think it's called the saber the engine if I

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remember righter. But the big problem was keeping the air cool,

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and there was some The main breakthrough was apparently a

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heat ex changer that could bring the temperature of the

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air down from seven hundred degrees celsius or something to

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liquid nitrogen temperatures in something like a thousandth of a

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second as it passes through the engine, And that was

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a big breakthrough. Now we've I think we've spoken about

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it before a long long time ago, because I haven't

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really been much News. It was being supported by the

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British government. I don't know whether that support has now dwindled,

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because it would be you know, the idea about this

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was economics. It was to be able to have the

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same spait spacecraft that will take you up there and

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bring you back and was completely reusable. And to some extent,

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I think Elon Musk's Base X and the Falcon Nines

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have kind of cornered the market on that because they've

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now got reusable spacecraft which are routinely being used every

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day almost so maybe there's no space for it. But yeah,

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extraordinary technology, and I'm sure the Chinese technology is above

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board what you've just been describing.

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Yeah, it's from the Beijing Power Machinery Institute and they've

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published their paper in the Chinese Journal of Propulsion Technology.

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I can see a problem with it, though. Let's say

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they do create an airliner that can do that trip

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in fifty minutes from New York to Sydney. For example,

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you'd leave at seven o'clock in the morning in New York.

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You'd arrive at eleven pm fifty minutes later in Sydney.

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So you get up and get on the plane and

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then get the Sydney and then have to go to

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bed right away.

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Yes, that's right. That's the issue, always the issue.

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It would make jet lag all the more worse.

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Do you know, I think I'd put up with that

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rather than all those hours twenty hour flight.

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Yeah, I've got one of those coming up very soon.

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Thing you do.

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Yeah, but yeah, to watch this space story. But I

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just find it fascinating these kinds of leaps and technology.

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Let's move on a new theory about snowball Earth's fred

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I said, there's there's no Irish joke attached to this,

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and there's a good reason I said that.

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Which I'm probably going to slide step completely. It's about

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rocks in Scotland and in Australia.

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I thought it was. I thought they said there was

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some of these rocks in Ireland as well.

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Yeah, I think I think there are. I think that's

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I think.

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That's the loose connection I made.

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With it also includes rocks in Namibia and North America

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as well as Scotland. You're probably right Ireland in Ireland

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because it's the west of Scotland where these where these

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rocks are that have recently been analyzed, and I mean

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it's an interesting story. I've often wondered about snowball that

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I've never really looked at the details of it. So

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it's a period of about sixty million years ago, sorry,

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sixty million years long, but it was a long time ago.

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It began seven hundred million years ago, in fact, probably

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more like seven hundred and twenty million years ago, and

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lasted until about six hundred and thirty five million years ago.

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And it's called the Cryogenyan Cryogenian geological period. And anything

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with cryo in the front of it means it's frozen

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solid and so and so I thought, well, how do

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we know this? And the way we know it, and

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the way we know that glacial ice covered the whole

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planet is because you can see in the geology the

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effects of glaciation everywhere. It's not just you know, I

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grew up in a country where ten thousand years ago

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the whole of the northern part of Britain was under ice,

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and so by all my school lessons were about glacial

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features in the north of England, and so you could

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tell from rocks whether something has been glaciated, and that's

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how we know everywhere there is this layer of rock

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corresponding to looking back, you know, six seven hundred million

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years where you see the evidence of glaciation, and so

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the interpretation of that is that you had an ice

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age that was the put the grandfather of all ice ages.

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The whole planet was frozen. And so that the new

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research concerns evidence from rocks in Scotland. And what's remarkable

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is that the sort of glacier, the glacial evidence there

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shows up really clearly. For some reason, that has been

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preserved very well there, you know, underneath the sediments that

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were dropped on top of on top of it later on.

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But the bottom line about the reason why we got

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this ice age is a question. I'm not sure that

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in the article I sent you it goes into detail

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about it. But the thinking is that we were seeing

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a period or before this period, we were seeing a

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time when volcanic rocks were being eroded. They were being

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weathered very rapidly, and apparently these were particularly in Canada,

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these volcanic rocks, and looking back now perhaps seven hundred

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and twenty million years, they were eroded by weathering and

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that process sucks carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere, and

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so what you're seeing is a situation where the atmospheric

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carbon dioxide is lower than normal, and in fact it

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is probably it was probably about half what today's level is.

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Today's levels in the region of four hundred parts per

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million if carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, and that's enough

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to blanket our planet and keep the temperature stable unless

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you put more in, in which case the temperature goes up,

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as you know, but if you drop too far down,

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then you get an ice ball. They estimate the atmosphere

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carbon dioxide levels back in the cryogenic period or Cryogenonian period,

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they estimate they were below two hundred parts per million.

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And what that does is lets the heat just radiate

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out into the interspace and you lose heat. The Earth's

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surface becomes very cold, and basically you get the snowball Earth.

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You get an Earth that is covered with ice. It's

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the same sort of thing that we think happened on Mars.

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Mars is very low carbon dioxide content, and that's why

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we think it got cold and dry rather than as

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it once was.

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The other There's a lot of moving parts to this story,

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but one of the things I found most interesting was

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that if this mega freeze hadn't happened, life as we know,

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it may not have developed, it happened at this time.

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It was just microbial just that was it.

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That's that's correct. So and the thinking, yes, it was.

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It was single celled organisms until that time, and they

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were around for you know, three billion years or so.

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Nothing happened except these single celled organisms, principally cyanobacteria. They

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just did their thing and got on with life, but

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didn't evolve in any way. But the end, this end

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of the glacial period was such a sort of rapid

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climate change by the standards of the time, by geological standards,

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that the thinking is that you've got almost an arms

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race to adapt to this new situation where the microbes

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are not permanently in deep freeze. You've got a warming climate,

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and the evolution of the microbes kicks in at a

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much higher level than it was before. And that is

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where we think that the multi celled organism started to

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be formed. And that's what are the ancestors of all

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the animals that we see today.

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Yes, so basically those who survived the thaw or adapted

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to it created.

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Life as we know.

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It just an extraordinary sort of factor to come out

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of it. The other thing, I correct me if I'm wrong.

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But these rocks we were talking about in Ireland and

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Scotland and Australia and everywhere else. The reason that these

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are so different is I believe these were rocks that

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actually stuck out of the ice. Is that correct during.

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That yes period that they may have done or at

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least been subject to less placier activity. So yes, they

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may have you know, had only a thin layer of

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ice over them, rather than be under kilometers of ice.

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So I think you're right there. And just to confirm

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you quite right that some of these rocks are in

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Ireland as well. Hadn't spotted that Andrew in my reading

226
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of the paper. But yes, so you've got particularly you've

227
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got these rocks on some of the Scottish islands. These

228
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are small islands called the Gavelos and it's basically in

229
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the west of Scotland. It's under the Potaska Formation. This

230
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is a geological area. Potaska very well known to Scott's

231
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people because it's the name of a well known pipe tune.

232
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So let me quote from one of the authors of

233
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this work, and he's actually a PhD candidate at the

234
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University University College London. The layers of rocks exposed on

235
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the Garvelis are globally unique. Underneath the rocks laid down

236
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during the unimaginable cold of the glaciation are seventy meters

237
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of older carbonate rocks formed in tropical waters. These layers

238
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record a tropical marine environment with flourishing cynobacterial life that

239
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gradually became cooler, marking the end of a billion years

240
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or so of a temperate climate on Earth. Most areas

241
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of the world are missing this remarkable transition because the

242
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ancient glaciers scraped and eroded the way the rocks underneath.

243
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But in Scotland, by some miracle, the transition can be seen,

244
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and I think that's underlining what you said. They were

245
00:15:52.039 --> 00:15:54.600
either sticking up through the ice or they weren't particularly

246
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deeply covered by ice. So it's minerals and radiometric dating

247
00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:04.519
of the minerals that have allowed this discovery to be made.

248
00:16:05.399 --> 00:16:08.399
Yeah, it's incredible, isn't it. All The answers are right

249
00:16:08.440 --> 00:16:11.399
there in front of us in the dirt. Sometimes simple

250
00:16:11.559 --> 00:16:15.639
that that's how we we know so much about the

251
00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:18.799
history of not just our planet, but the you know,

252
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the other.

253
00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:21.840
Planets of the Solar System. Just learned from looking at

254
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the rocks.

255
00:16:22.279 --> 00:16:26.440
That's right, Yeah, fantastic. If you'd like to read the

256
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article or chase up that story, it's on the Cosmos

257
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magazine dot com website. There's a space Nut's Andrew Dunkley

258
00:16:34.679 --> 00:16:36.399
here with Professor Brad Watson.

259
00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:42.759
Murder your spacebuts.

260
00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:46.200
Speaking of dirt, Fred, we've got the dirt on the

261
00:16:46.279 --> 00:16:50.960
dinosaur asteroid. We we now know thanks to a new

262
00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:55.440
study where it came from. This is fascinating too, it is.

263
00:16:55.480 --> 00:16:58.600
That's right, and you know, it's not that long ago

264
00:16:58.639 --> 00:17:02.320
that people were really still speculating about where the remnants

265
00:17:02.320 --> 00:17:07.039
of this asteroid was. We're now pretty certain that it's

266
00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:11.759
in the Chickalog Basin in the Gulf of Mexico, that

267
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that is the site which actually was the impact site

268
00:17:16.839 --> 00:17:20.000
of this asteroid. So what you can do is you

269
00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:24.160
can look at the rocks that you find in that region.

270
00:17:24.319 --> 00:17:29.079
Once again, we're looking down at the dirt, but basically

271
00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:32.599
look to see whether we know of anything like it

272
00:17:32.839 --> 00:17:39.400
out there in the Solar system. And the bottom line

273
00:17:39.720 --> 00:17:44.920
is that yes, we do find that. In particular, and

274
00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:47.480
this is work being done at the University of Cologne

275
00:17:47.519 --> 00:17:48.480
in Germany.

276
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The.

277
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Element Ruthenium is basically a chemical marker. Put it that way.

278
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That is found in the debris around the Chick Salam

279
00:18:04.039 --> 00:18:08.119
impact and apparently in other sediments around the world, because

280
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the debris from that explosion spread all around the world.

281
00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:16.039
It was so, you know, such a major piece of

282
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piece of explosive material. It was only explosive because it

283
00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:24.680
hit the ground at a very high speed, probably thirty

284
00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:28.960
or forty kilometers per second. But the fingerprint of ruthenium

285
00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:32.319
has been found in that debris, and it turns out

286
00:18:33.079 --> 00:18:39.480
that that coincides with rocks in the Maine asteroid belt,

287
00:18:39.559 --> 00:18:43.640
that's the region between Mars and Jupiter, but at the

288
00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:48.680
outer edge, outer edge of the asteroid belt, not sort

289
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of not the kind of place you'd expect. You would

290
00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:55.160
think if that rock had come from the asteroid belt,

291
00:18:55.160 --> 00:18:57.200
you'd think it will be near the inner edge, but

292
00:18:57.319 --> 00:19:01.119
the chemical specifics tell you that it's actually at the

293
00:19:01.160 --> 00:19:08.000
outer age. And that is really very very interesting deduction.

294
00:19:08.599 --> 00:19:11.039
Who would have thought that we will built a pinpoint

295
00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:15.079
where that asteroid came from sixty six million years after.

296
00:19:14.839 --> 00:19:19.880
The event, and maybe the asteroid yeah, I guess they

297
00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:23.920
worked it out on the chemical composition elements rather than backtracking.

298
00:19:24.839 --> 00:19:28.880
Yes, that's right, it's we don't have enough information to backtrack.

299
00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:31.400
We don't know what anglic came in at or you

300
00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:34.160
know what it's all of it was before it collided

301
00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:37.480
with Earth. So it's all about chemistry, is this? And

302
00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:42.160
and in particular some quite quite sophisticate Well, I suppose

303
00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:46.000
you call it chemical physics, because they're using radiation techniques

304
00:19:47.880 --> 00:19:52.920
basically to look for these levels of ruthenium in the

305
00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:59.119
basically in the debris from the from the asteroid creator

306
00:19:59.240 --> 00:20:06.960
and surroundings, and basically, you know, looking at how it

307
00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:13.880
compares with other asteroid impacts and carbonaceous meteorites which also

308
00:20:14.359 --> 00:20:18.200
come from that region of the Solar System.

309
00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:22.519
So what might have caused a rock from that particular

310
00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:25.440
part of the Solar System to you know, turn its

311
00:20:25.480 --> 00:20:28.160
attention to us. Did Satain get upset in check a

312
00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:29.200
rock at us or something?

313
00:20:29.319 --> 00:20:40.920
It's probably it's probably a just a gravitational disturbance, you know,

314
00:20:41.079 --> 00:20:47.440
something that disturbed the orbit of this asteroid in its

315
00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:51.359
comfortable zone of the asteroid belt. Maybe an interaction with

316
00:20:51.400 --> 00:20:56.680
another asteroid, because when objects come together they needn't necessarily collide.

317
00:20:56.720 --> 00:21:00.119
But if they can interact with each other gravitational so

318
00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:03.319
that one of them gets thrown out of its orbits,

319
00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:06.000
and you know, it's possible that that would have been

320
00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:06.440
the case.

321
00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:10.359
It's kind of like being in a crowd at a Chinese supermarket. Really,

322
00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:12.640
That's that's what it's like.

323
00:21:13.519 --> 00:21:15.839
Yes, yes, I didn't want to go that way, but

324
00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:19.039
you ended up you have to you have to go

325
00:21:19.160 --> 00:21:22.240
that way, Yeah, just because everything's so crowded. It's it's

326
00:21:22.839 --> 00:21:27.799
a bit like that. The The thing is that that event,

327
00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:31.799
whatever tipped it out of its comfortable orbits, that might

328
00:21:31.799 --> 00:21:34.799
have happened a long time before the sixty six million

329
00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:39.839
year day ago that we have for the for the

330
00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:42.799
impact for the extinction of the dinosaurs. So it might

331
00:21:42.839 --> 00:21:45.200
have been in a in an orbit that intersected the

332
00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:49.240
Earth's orbit for a long long time before the crunch

333
00:21:49.319 --> 00:21:51.000
finally came when it tried to be in the same

334
00:21:51.039 --> 00:21:53.960
place at the same time as the Earth. So yes,

335
00:21:54.039 --> 00:21:57.279
so we there's details for this story that we still

336
00:21:57.400 --> 00:22:01.559
have a long way to finding out. But it may

337
00:22:01.640 --> 00:22:03.720
well have been as I said, it's either a collision

338
00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:10.079
with another asteroid or maybe even something like the gravitational

339
00:22:10.119 --> 00:22:15.920
pull of gas giants. Maybe Jupiter perturbed that objects orbit

340
00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:18.480
in such a way that it interacted with another asteroid

341
00:22:18.519 --> 00:22:22.240
and got thrown out of turned out of the asteroid belt.

342
00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:25.440
We probably will never know that. It's interesting enough, I think,

343
00:22:25.480 --> 00:22:27.440
to discover whereabouts it came from.

344
00:22:28.279 --> 00:22:30.880
Yes, the other thing that came out of this is

345
00:22:30.920 --> 00:22:34.279
that it all bat writes off that this was a

346
00:22:34.359 --> 00:22:37.839
comet impact. Yeah, but not absolutely.

347
00:22:39.319 --> 00:22:42.799
Yeah, that's right. There's still there's still a possibility. But

348
00:22:43.480 --> 00:22:47.359
you know, comets a different beast from asteroids. There, they've

349
00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:50.519
contained lots of ice as well as the rock, and

350
00:22:50.599 --> 00:22:55.960
that means that the chemistry of the residual material from

351
00:22:56.000 --> 00:23:00.839
the impact would have different properties. So I think it's

352
00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:05.160
you know, you can never say never, but the the

353
00:23:05.160 --> 00:23:07.440
the body of opinion seems to be that it was

354
00:23:07.480 --> 00:23:10.359
actually an astrolier rather than a comment. Yeah.

355
00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:13.119
I do have just one more question about this story,

356
00:23:13.119 --> 00:23:16.359
and this is the most important one for it most important.

357
00:23:16.960 --> 00:23:22.359
You mentioned the element. So was the person who discovered

358
00:23:22.359 --> 00:23:27.880
that named Ruth. That's a good question. I'd have to

359
00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:30.119
take that one to notice. But my guess is that

360
00:23:30.119 --> 00:23:35.079
that's where the name came from. Maybe maybe it was

361
00:23:35.160 --> 00:23:39.640
somebody who was ruthless. They thought, yeah, I'll call it

362
00:23:39.720 --> 00:23:41.319
ruthenium because I'm ruthless.

363
00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:41.759
Who knows.

364
00:23:42.519 --> 00:23:46.640
Yeah, that's that's a thought to that story. If you

365
00:23:46.680 --> 00:23:51.640
would like to read it is available at space dot com.

366
00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:55.880
This is Space Nuts Andrew Duncley here with Professor Fred Watson.

367
00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:02.200
Space meds Now.

368
00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:06.200
Fred to the so called crisis in cosmology. We're talking

369
00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:10.200
about the the Hubble tension. Now we've we've done this

370
00:24:10.279 --> 00:24:13.519
story a few times over the years. This is where

371
00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:19.440
the basically the expansion speed of the universe, depending on

372
00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:23.559
how how you calculate that number, comes up with two

373
00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:26.960
different answers, and they've never been able to figure out why.

374
00:24:27.920 --> 00:24:30.680
But now they're starting to think, well, there's no crisis

375
00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:35.519
at all. Everything's right, Yes, So.

376
00:24:38.839 --> 00:24:42.200
Let me just explain how this this tension, the Hubble

377
00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:46.200
tension comes about. Yeah, because there are two ways of

378
00:24:47.480 --> 00:24:55.000
measuring the expansion of the universe. One uses standard candles

379
00:24:55.400 --> 00:24:58.880
and the other use is a standard ruler. And put

380
00:24:58.880 --> 00:25:02.319
it that way, so the the standard candles. Taking that first,

381
00:25:02.839 --> 00:25:05.240
if you know how bright your candle is, then you

382
00:25:05.279 --> 00:25:07.039
can work out how far away it is from you,

383
00:25:07.880 --> 00:25:12.240
because you know, you know it's real brightness. It's intrinsic brightness,

384
00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:16.640
then you can work out what is going on in

385
00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:19.920
terms of because we know the way light gets fainter.

386
00:25:20.440 --> 00:25:22.599
We know the rule by which light gets fainter as

387
00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:25.119
you move to greater in greater distances. It's what called

388
00:25:25.119 --> 00:25:28.319
the inverse square, or it goes as the square of

389
00:25:28.359 --> 00:25:31.279
the distance one over the square of the distance. So

390
00:25:31.759 --> 00:25:38.720
standard candles are usually stars in galaxies, and in fact

391
00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:42.559
this is what led us detect the expansion of the

392
00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:46.480
universe in the first place, because in the early years

393
00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:50.440
of the last century, around nineteen hundred, a group of

394
00:25:50.680 --> 00:25:55.160
astronomers in the United States measured the intrinsic brightness of

395
00:25:55.200 --> 00:25:58.240
a particular kind of variable style, one whose brightness varies,

396
00:25:58.920 --> 00:26:01.599
but it varies in a in a periodic way. And

397
00:26:01.680 --> 00:26:05.200
it turns out that there's a relationship between how frequently

398
00:26:05.240 --> 00:26:08.079
it varies and what the intrinsic brightness is. And you

399
00:26:08.160 --> 00:26:10.839
usually take it at peak brightness or minimum brightness, which

400
00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:13.480
doesn't really matter as long as you know what it is.

401
00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:17.440
And so that's the time honored way of working out

402
00:26:17.480 --> 00:26:21.440
how far away galaxies are. To look for these variable

403
00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:27.799
stars and then basically look at you know, how bright

404
00:26:27.799 --> 00:26:30.400
they look to us and from that work out the distance,

405
00:26:31.519 --> 00:26:34.039
and that lets you produce a value for what we

406
00:26:34.079 --> 00:26:38.839
call the Hubble constant, which is the number that basically

407
00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:42.920
tells you how fast the universe is expanding. The Hubble

408
00:26:43.440 --> 00:26:46.680
constant is in units of kilometers per second per mega passe,

409
00:26:47.480 --> 00:26:49.359
but we don't really need to worry about that because

410
00:26:49.359 --> 00:26:51.559
at the moment, all we're interested in is the number.

411
00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:57.880
And so until now, the best estimates from the standard candles,

412
00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:02.240
in other words, the Cepheid variables have come out at

413
00:27:02.759 --> 00:27:07.119
about seventy four kilometers per second megaparsec. But then the

414
00:27:07.160 --> 00:27:10.720
standard ruler method is looking back at the flash of

415
00:27:10.759 --> 00:27:13.880
the Big Bang, the cosmic microwave background radiation, which we

416
00:27:13.960 --> 00:27:17.880
see as it was about thirteen billion years ago, and

417
00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:23.079
there are features in that variation which have separations that

418
00:27:23.160 --> 00:27:28.160
we know would be characteristic of a certain particular time.

419
00:27:28.640 --> 00:27:30.519
And what we're talking about here when I say features,

420
00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:33.799
I mean peaks and troughs in the temperature of the

421
00:27:33.799 --> 00:27:37.359
Big Bang. Effectively what you're looking at, and from that

422
00:27:37.640 --> 00:27:40.759
you can also deduce the Hubble constant the expansion rate

423
00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:44.079
as it is today. But the answer you get from

424
00:27:44.079 --> 00:27:47.480
that is sixty seven point five kilometers per second per

425
00:27:47.519 --> 00:27:51.319
mega passe eg, which is round about six and a

426
00:27:51.359 --> 00:27:54.079
half kilometers per second per mega part sect different from

427
00:27:54.119 --> 00:27:56.559
the other one, and that is now we're in such

428
00:27:56.599 --> 00:28:01.400
a precise era that that now has people worried. So

429
00:28:01.559 --> 00:28:05.680
what's happened. Well, the same team who've done a huge

430
00:28:05.680 --> 00:28:08.359
amount of this work in the past, led by Dr

431
00:28:08.480 --> 00:28:11.880
Wendy Freeman Friedman, one of the big names in this

432
00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:15.880
kind of science in the United States. Wendy and her

433
00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:23.400
team have used our new toy web, the James Webspace Telescope, which.

434
00:28:23.319 --> 00:28:26.000
We always knew it would it would solve this problem.

435
00:28:26.759 --> 00:28:29.000
We knew it would certainly help. It would either make

436
00:28:29.039 --> 00:28:31.160
it worse or it would solve it. And yeah, you're

437
00:28:31.240 --> 00:28:33.319
right to cut to the chase. It's probably solved it

438
00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:40.119
because it's now looking as though the method is more

439
00:28:40.279 --> 00:28:41.920
like that, you know, the method where you measure the

440
00:28:41.920 --> 00:28:44.720
brightness of these variable stars is giving an answer more

441
00:28:44.759 --> 00:28:48.200
like seventy kilometers per second omega passe, which is much

442
00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:50.400
closer to that sixty seven point five that you get

443
00:28:50.440 --> 00:28:53.720
from the cosmic microwave background radiation. And it turns out

444
00:28:54.079 --> 00:28:57.960
that when you think about the error potential eraror of

445
00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:01.599
both of them. Then it overlaps. So in that regard,

446
00:29:01.640 --> 00:29:04.079
you've got something that falls within the air bounds of

447
00:29:04.160 --> 00:29:07.079
both of these methods, and so maybe we are seeing

448
00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:08.319
the right answer at last.

449
00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:12.720
So it basically brings it back to an average. That's right,

450
00:29:12.839 --> 00:29:15.079
that's rights. Yes.

451
00:29:15.400 --> 00:29:19.640
You know, when I started my career, Andrew, there were

452
00:29:19.759 --> 00:29:25.240
two camps and basically they were using similar methods. One

453
00:29:25.640 --> 00:29:29.039
said that the Hubble constant was fifty kilometers per second

454
00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:31.359
per mega pass. The other said it was one hundred

455
00:29:31.480 --> 00:29:34.240
kilometers per second per mega past second. They were both right.

456
00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:37.720
I thought they were both right, and it turned out

457
00:29:37.759 --> 00:29:40.160
that the answer, the real answer, was the average of

458
00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:45.119
them with seventy or five of the.

459
00:29:43.720 --> 00:29:46.880
There you go, pretty simple solution at the end of

460
00:29:46.920 --> 00:29:49.200
the day, but a lot of hard work went when

461
00:29:49.319 --> 00:29:51.440
in fine and yeah, we.

462
00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:53.880
Hope that's that resolves the Hubble tension. It will be

463
00:29:53.880 --> 00:29:58.839
gratefully cosmic class disappeared. Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised though.

464
00:29:58.880 --> 00:30:02.160
In months to camps somebody comes up with a debunking theory.

465
00:30:03.559 --> 00:30:06.319
Well, there you go, it couldn't happen. It could happen

466
00:30:07.759 --> 00:30:10.160
at this point in time, looks like it might have

467
00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:13.400
been resolved. This has been frustrating for a long time,

468
00:30:13.480 --> 00:30:16.720
but maybe as simple as hang on a sec. You're

469
00:30:16.759 --> 00:30:21.920
both right, and here's why. Yeah, that's stories on SYE

470
00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:25.640
Tech Daily dot com. Question without Notice spread that's come

471
00:30:25.720 --> 00:30:28.640
through from one of our live viewers, Wayne high wayIn

472
00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:35.400
this harks back to the snowball Earth story we did. Wayne,

473
00:30:35.839 --> 00:30:38.559
I wonder how much bigger the diameter of a frozen

474
00:30:38.599 --> 00:30:41.480
Earth would be to the current Earth. Do we have

475
00:30:41.559 --> 00:30:43.680
any idea what that might have been.

476
00:30:43.759 --> 00:30:49.119
Yeah, it probably wasn't that much different. It's you know,

477
00:30:49.279 --> 00:30:51.960
I mean at the moment, a lot of that water

478
00:30:52.039 --> 00:30:56.039
is still there, but it's wet. You know, this is

479
00:30:56.119 --> 00:30:59.880
now it's turned into eyes, so it's not going to

480
00:30:59.880 --> 00:31:03.839
be it's certainly not going to be tens of killer

481
00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:07.440
meters different. It might be a few killo meters different

482
00:31:08.519 --> 00:31:11.599
on average, and I'm talking about the average. But I

483
00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:13.480
don't think it would you know, it wouldn't have turned

484
00:31:13.480 --> 00:31:16.039
into a gas giant or anything like that. It's an

485
00:31:16.039 --> 00:31:18.759
interesting question though, because we think it's because of frozen

486
00:31:18.839 --> 00:31:22.200
water out in the depths of the Solar System adding

487
00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:25.279
to the mass of the gas giants. As they were

488
00:31:25.319 --> 00:31:27.799
being formed. We think that is one reason why they

489
00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:30.559
became so big, because they had enough bounds to hold

490
00:31:30.599 --> 00:31:34.720
on to a gas envelope. And so it's a good

491
00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:38.039
question to ask that at what difference would the ice blake.

492
00:31:38.359 --> 00:31:40.839
But this is really just a surface layer of ice

493
00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:43.480
rather than a solid block of ice, which may be

494
00:31:43.559 --> 00:31:45.599
at the core of the gas giants.

495
00:31:46.359 --> 00:31:49.160
Indeed, all right, thank you. Why nice to get questions

496
00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:52.960
without notice while we're going out live during our recording sessions.

497
00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:55.839
Good to hear from you, Fred. We're just about Dan.

498
00:31:55.960 --> 00:31:56.799
Thank you very much.

499
00:31:57.440 --> 00:32:01.440
A pleasure, Andrew, good to talk and some interesting topics,

500
00:32:01.480 --> 00:32:02.799
and there'll be more next week.

501
00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:07.039
Indeed there will, Thanks Red Professor Fred Watson, Astronomer at Large.

502
00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:10.359
I don't forget to check us out online Spacenuts podcast

503
00:32:10.400 --> 00:32:13.519
dot com, space Nuts dot io. We can check out

504
00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:16.319
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505
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you're interested, just have a bit of a flick around.

506
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And if you follow us on social media, don't forget

507
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or click the subscribe button depending on which platform it is.

509
00:32:29.960 --> 00:32:32.839
And thanks to Hu in the studio as always and

510
00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:35.640
from me Andrew Unkley. We will see you again soon

511
00:32:35.720 --> 00:32:38.759
on the very next episode of Space Nuts. Bye bye,

512
00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:42.799
Space Nuts. You'll be listening to the Space Nuts podcast

513
00:32:44.440 --> 00:32:50.480
available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or your favorite podcast player.

514
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You can also stream on demand at guides dot com.

515
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This has been another quality podcast production from nights dot com.
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