Aug. 1, 2024

#439: JWST and the Old, Cold Exoplanet

#439: JWST and the Old, Cold Exoplanet

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In this episode of Space Nuts, Andrew Dunkley and Professor...

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This episode is brought to you by Incogni. When you want your data to remain private online, Incogni is your go-to service. Get our special offer by visiting www.incogni.com/spacenuts
In this episode of Space Nuts, Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson discuss various topics in astronomy and space science. They talk about the James Webb Space Telescope capturing a direct photo of an exoplanet that is possibly the oldest and coldest one discovered so far. They also discuss the Perseverance Rover's discovery of leopard spots on rocks on Mars, which could potentially indicate signs of past microbial life. Additionally, they mention the shrinking of Jupiter's Great Red Spot and the challenges of bringing back rocks from Mars for further analysis. In this conversation, Fred and Andrew discuss the life and work of Tycho Brahe, a renowned astronomer from the 16th century. They explore his upbringing, his discovery of astronomy, and his contributions to the field. They also touch on his interest in alchemy and the fate of his castle. The conversation then shifts to the Europa Clipper mission, which aims to study Jupiter's moon Europa and search for signs of life. They discuss the mission's objectives and the instruments it will use. Finally, they address the question of why proto-planets do not become stars themselves and the gradual loss of Mars' primordial atmosphere.
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WEBVTT

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Hi there, Thanks for joining us. This is Space Nuts.

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My name is Andrew Dunkley.

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Coming up on this episode, we're going to be looking

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at a photograph. Yeah, it's finally time for us to

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share our family photos with you. Now it's not James

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Webb Space Telescope has taken a photo of an exoplanet.

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It's not the first time it's taken a direct photo

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of an exoplanet, but this one is very old and

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very cold.

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And we'll tell you why.

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They've spotted spots on Mars. And the spots that they've

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spotted could mean we've spotted life as it was. Possibly

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we'll put a spot on that and talk about it later.

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And a Danish astronomer that dates back about four hundred

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years or so, Ticko Brye, is in the news. We'll

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tell you why on this edition of Space Nuts fifteen

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in Channel ten nine.

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Ignition Space Nuts or three two red ones Space Nuts

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and actually bought it Bills Good.

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And the man who's always spot on with his astronomy

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and space science is Professor Fred What's an astronomer at large.

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Fresh Very nice segue there, and thank you for that.

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Couldn't help It couldn't help. It.

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Gee, it's cold here.

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We have been hit with a real, a real plunge

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in the temperatures.

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Last week we had a couple of days where it

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got seven to eighteen, seven to nineteen degrees, which in

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the middle of July is beautiful, but it came back

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with a vengeance the other day. We've been plunging to

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minuses in the early morning and barely reaching double figures

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during the day.

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And it's sunny. That's the weird part.

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It is really cold and sunny, and that's not a

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combination that's very, very common around here. If it's cold,

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it's usually bleakish as well.

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But the days are beautiful, but the.

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Air is freezing, and I'm well, I believe it's because

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of an effect that's happened in Antarctica, where the troposphere

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rose fifty degrees in just a couple of days, and

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that causes a really big impact on the cold air

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in Antarctica and just pushes it north, and that's what's

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causing I don't believe.

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There, you, Gil, and I certainly knew it was a

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blust of Antarctica that you were getting, which is cold

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and dry, which I guess is why you've got flear

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sculls as well.

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Yeah, yeah, it's lovely, but go outside your fingers starting

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and you think what's going supposed to be warm?

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With apologies to our Canadian listeners who want to go

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far worse than this every year.

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Yes, yes, indeed, although they've been dealing with forest.

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Fire opposite just but we were in Juster earlier this year.

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We were there last year, and while we were there

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we were getting fire warnings on our phones. And here

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we are a year later and it's happening all again.

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It's just become part of the landscape in most countries

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these days.

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Unfortunately. Everything good with you, Fred.

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It's so acceptable. Yes, thank you, that's agreeing. Well, no,

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I guess the correct word, Andrew is nominal. Everything's not nominal.

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Yeah, that's a great word.

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All right, and now let us get into a few stories.

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But before we get into the main crutch of it,

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you've got some news on SpaceX. We were talking about

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the Falcon rockets a couple of weeks ago and some

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issues there.

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Things have changed, yes they have.

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So. Falcon nines were grounded after the failure of the

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second stage of one of them. We did talk about

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it and it resulted in an attempt to rescue some

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of the satellites that were twenty two or twenty three

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Starling satellites that were supposed to be being orbited, but

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they didn't make it. And I think even though they

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made contact with some of the the satellites, they didn't

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get them into stable orbits. So SpaceX has investigated the

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problem was a liquid oxygen leak to do with insulation

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around that upper stage engine. There's a quote from SpaceX

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which is the cause of the leak was identified as

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a crack in a sense line for a pressure sensor

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attached to the vehicle's oxygen system. The line cracked due

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to fatigue caused by high loading from engine vibration and

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looseness in the clamp that normally constrains the line. Despite

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the leak, the second stage continue to operate throughout the

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duration of the first burn, completed its engine shut down

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where it ends to the coast phase of the mission

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intended for the parking orbit. The second second burn of

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the upper stage was planned to circularize the orbit ahead

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of the satellite deployment, but that didn't work. Basically, a

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long story short, but that's all been accepted by the FAA.

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I think that's the organization that actually has to ratify

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the capability to launch, and they've taken remedial steps. I

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think they've actually got rid of that particular pressure sensor,

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which has solved the problem, and so they now have

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to go ahead to launch, and in fact they've they've

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already carried out I think more than one launch. I

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think they've done three this week.

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Very good. Berg.

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I think I read something the other day that it's

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said that rocket launchers are becoming so common. There's I

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think there's almost one a day in the world.

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That's what you're getting on that way.

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Yes, yeah, when you go back to the fifties and sixties,

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they there were a rare thing, but now they've just

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become so very common. In fact, a lot of them

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don't even make the news because it's just that thing

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that's right. Yes, Now, before we continue, I just want

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to say a loo to a few of our live viewers,

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one of which is Misty. Misty is an administrator on

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the Space Nuts podcast group Facebook page, so it gives

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me a chance to publicly say thank you for all

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what she does for us behind the scenes, keeping people

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in line on Facebook.

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That's a big job.

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And hello to Danny and regular question on our live

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feeds is board broke build So hello to all of you.

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Now Fred the James Webspace telescopes in the news.

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Again, that's very rare as well.

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Be a fabulous job.

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I have to say, yes, it has, and it's been

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able to take direct photographs of exoplanets. Prior to that,

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we've got artists' renditions of what an exoplanet might look

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like and they're fantastic. But these are direct photos, although

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they tend to be a bit fuzzy. But this latest

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photograph of an exoplanet is a bit different from others

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because it's possibly the oldest one they've ever found, and

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it's a darn cold place, that's right.

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So this is basically a star whose name is Epsilon

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Hindi A. It's in the constellation of Indus Southern hemisphere constellation.

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It's about twelve light years away, but it has a

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planet which has been suspected because of other observations. I'm

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not sure what they were, whether they were I think

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there were radio velocity observations. That means the Doppler wobble

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technique where you actually analyze the velocity of the parent star,

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and since that's sort of varying periodically, you can tell

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that there's a planet pulling it out of place. And

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that's the certainly the initial way in which most extra

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planets were found. And then it went over to the

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transit method, where you look at the dimming of a

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star as a planet moves in front of it. So

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this planet was its existence was suspected, but it's turned

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out with the as exactly as you've said, with the

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fact that we now have an image of this planet,

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which is called exelon indab because the bee stands for

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the planet, and it's actually I think it's puzzled the scientists.

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It's and in fact the scientists who are working on

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this are at the Max Planck Institute for Astronomy in Heidelberg.

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Of colleagues who work there, but I don't know this

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particular one Elizabeth Matthews, who's the lead author of this paper.

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And Elizabeth says, well, we expect it to image a

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planet in this system with the web telescope because there

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were there, you are, because there were radial velocity indications

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of its presence. That's the Doppler waddle technique. The planet

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we found isn't what we have predicted. It's about twice

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as massive, a little further from its star, and has

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a different orbit from what we expected. The cause of

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this discrepancy remains an open question. That's actually a really

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important thing because if we've got it wrong when it

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comes to interpreting these radial velocity measurements of stars, then

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we need to know that because there's a lot of

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work being done about things like hot jupiters and all

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the rest of it. Things we've talked about before. So

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what is this planets several times the mass of Jupiter

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in an elliptical orbit one that's not circular, excuse me,

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but it's fainter than expected at shorter infrared wavelengths, and

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that suggests, first of all, that it has probably got

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a cloudy atmosphere, but there may be carbon based molecules

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in the atmosphere. Methane, carbon monoxide, and carbon dioxide are

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being suggested. But the cool bit of this, and it

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really is, is it's temperature. The average temperature of this

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planet two degrees celsius. Wow, yeah, it's now. That's so

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it's a Jupiter or more than Jupiter mass planet Jupiter

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is a gas giant in our own Solar system, which

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is at about minus ninety something like that minus ninety

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five or thereabout degree celsius way out in the Solar system,

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so it's very cold. So this one is relatively warm

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compared with our gas giants, but it is much cooler

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than any other exoplanet that has been observed directly, and

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there's about twenty five that we've seen directly. And the problem,

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by the way, in imaging a planet directly is that

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you're blinded by the lights of the star that it's

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going around, because the star is right next door to

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it and it's yet to a brillion times brighter. So

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you've got to take away the light of the star.

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That's done by means of an instrument called a corona graph,

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and if you can do that cleverly enough, you can

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leave an image of the planet itself nestling in the

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sort of outer light of the star. That's what's happened here.

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So the issue is, as I said, it's colder than

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any other exoplanet. That makes it harder to observe because

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of an exoplanet that's warm emits more energy. Now this

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star is actually it's because its name implies, because it's

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got an A after it epsilon in the A. It's

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the main star in a system of three other stars,

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so it's a triplet system. It is a red dwarf star,

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and that doesn't surprise us because red dwarfs are the

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easiest ones to observe when it comes to subtracting the

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light of the star because they're relatively faint, smaller, and

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cooler than the Sun. And the the point about this

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star is that it's hits elderly. It's probably the same

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age as the Sun a well a half billion years,

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and most of the extra planets that have been that

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have been observed directly have been around much younger stars,

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so they're much younger in there in the you know,

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in their life history. So this one's really interesting from

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that point of view. It's a mature planet, probably been

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around for four or five billion years, it's going around

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a cool red dwarf star, and and is in an

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unexpected orbit. So there's a few little mysteries to solve there.

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And just foot note that you might know more about

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than me. Andrew Hits well, I know, I think I

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know where you're going. Yeah, it features I think this

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star and fictional planets around. The staff featured on a

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number of science fiction movies and games like Halo.

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Yeah, Halo, which I played when it first came out

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with my boys.

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We loved Halo. That's a franchise that's still.

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Going to the keep releasing new versions of the game.

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Even made it into a TV series which lasted I

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think two seasons. But yeah, it's featured in Halo, it's

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featured in books, and it was a pretty popular place

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in Star Trek episodes. So Epsilon Indie is well known

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to the science fiction community.

224
00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:39.759
There you go.

225
00:13:39.879 --> 00:13:45.679
Yeah, But what's interesting is I don't think ultimately this

226
00:13:45.679 --> 00:13:48.399
will be the oldest and coldest planet we ever find,

227
00:13:48.440 --> 00:13:54.279
but it is at the moment, and the gas giants

228
00:13:54.279 --> 00:13:59.240
in our Solar System are colder. What does that mean

229
00:13:59.360 --> 00:14:02.320
in terms of of how gas giants age or is

230
00:14:02.360 --> 00:14:04.559
it just to do with proximity to the star?

231
00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:08.200
Maybe yes, I mean we think that gas giants get

232
00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:11.919
big because they are cold. And you know, in the

233
00:14:11.960 --> 00:14:16.600
Solar System, the gas giants are all beyond the frost line.

234
00:14:17.039 --> 00:14:21.080
So that means that water they put the commonest too

235
00:14:21.080 --> 00:14:25.600
element molecule in the universe, could could freeze out, and

236
00:14:25.679 --> 00:14:29.639
so probably what you've got is a rocky core with

237
00:14:29.720 --> 00:14:34.519
a very heavy, massive, pretty dense layer of ice around it.

238
00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:39.320
But it may be that this planet, like the one

239
00:14:39.320 --> 00:14:41.960
we were talking about in the last but one episode

240
00:14:41.960 --> 00:14:46.679
of space Nuts, has migrated into a closer orbit and

241
00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:48.360
that might push its temperature up.

242
00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:53.279
Ah Okay, well, yeah, I suppose that's something they'll be

243
00:14:53.360 --> 00:14:56.279
able to analyze if they can collect the data.

244
00:14:56.399 --> 00:14:57.720
It's such a I mean, it's not.

245
00:14:57.879 --> 00:15:00.559
It's not a long way away from us, but it's

246
00:15:00.600 --> 00:15:02.000
still a long way, you.

247
00:15:01.960 --> 00:15:06.240
Know, that's right, it is. So yeah. So it's a

248
00:15:06.320 --> 00:15:09.399
very nice piece of work, and the team I think,

249
00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:15.000
are expecting to observe other relatively nearby planets to look

250
00:15:15.080 --> 00:15:18.840
for even colder ones. As you said, I don't suppose

251
00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:20.080
it'll hold the record for long.

252
00:15:21.519 --> 00:15:22.360
No, probably not.

253
00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:26.639
You can read that story on NASA spaceflight dot Com

254
00:15:26.679 --> 00:15:28.519
if you want to know more about it. While we're

255
00:15:28.519 --> 00:15:31.919
talking about Jupiter, though, fred I read a story just

256
00:15:31.960 --> 00:15:35.279
in the last few days about the storm the red

257
00:15:35.320 --> 00:15:39.279
spot and how it's getting smaller, and when you look

258
00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:42.039
back through recent history, it's really shrunk a lot, although

259
00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:45.519
it's still big enough for Earth to fit inside barely though.

260
00:15:46.240 --> 00:15:47.039
But they think they know.

261
00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:49.360
Why it's getting smaller. It's running out of stuff to eat.

262
00:15:49.879 --> 00:15:57.240
Apparently they think it fed on smaller storms. But those

263
00:15:57.360 --> 00:16:00.000
storms are diminishing as well, so the red spot doesn't

264
00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:03.879
have any sustenance and therefore is losing weight.

265
00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:09.919
Basically interesting, very interesting. This is space Nuts.

266
00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:14.600
Andrew Dunkley here with Professor Fred Watson. Let's take a

267
00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:16.559
little break from the show to tell you about our

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the coupon code space nuts. Now back to the show.

325
00:20:00.279 --> 00:20:03.000
Mir name piece Buds.

326
00:20:03.359 --> 00:20:08.039
Now to a rocky planet that we only rarely talk about,

327
00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:13.759
named Mars. This is a really fascinating story, and again,

328
00:20:13.960 --> 00:20:18.359
like we discussed last week, involves a rover making a discovery.

329
00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:21.680
Last week it was finding sulfur. This week it's finding

330
00:20:22.359 --> 00:20:26.839
these these what they've described as leopard spots on rocks

331
00:20:27.039 --> 00:20:28.240
on the planet's surface.

332
00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:30.079
This is the Perseverance rover.

333
00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:34.480
What's really interesting about this story is these spots may

334
00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:37.079
mean something rather significant.

335
00:20:39.039 --> 00:20:39.559
That's right.

336
00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:46.039
So it's a rock that is about probably ninety by

337
00:20:47.920 --> 00:20:51.200
sixty centimeters three feet by two feet in the all measure,

338
00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:54.559
and it's got a name.

339
00:20:55.319 --> 00:20:56.279
It's Hook.

340
00:20:56.400 --> 00:21:01.000
Pronouncing this correctly, Chow the falls it's named after I believe,

341
00:21:01.279 --> 00:21:03.599
a feature in the Grand Canyon. I think that's right.

342
00:21:04.599 --> 00:21:10.079
So that rock has all sorts of interesting aspects to it,

343
00:21:11.119 --> 00:21:16.319
which is puzzling scientists as to how these various features

344
00:21:16.359 --> 00:21:19.359
can exist in one rock because they seem to be

345
00:21:20.079 --> 00:21:23.039
you know, some of it suggests that there's a lot

346
00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:25.839
of a lot of hot water been involved. With this

347
00:21:26.680 --> 00:21:30.079
too hot for anything to live in, and yet we've

348
00:21:30.119 --> 00:21:34.440
got these what have been called leopard spots, tiny little

349
00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:37.039
white spots which I think have a black ring around them,

350
00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:42.680
and they are on Earth the sort of thing that

351
00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:47.400
you find when you've got fossilized microbes. They're similar to

352
00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:52.200
what we find in rocks where you've got fossilized microbial

353
00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:56.599
activity on Earth. So this is why people are very

354
00:21:56.599 --> 00:22:00.200
excited about this rock. Is it the first evidence of

355
00:22:03.079 --> 00:22:06.519
having been life, living organisms on Mars or is it

356
00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:12.119
purely chemical? And apparently the mission scientists who are working

357
00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:15.319
on this have kind of analyzed this thing to death.

358
00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:18.920
They've used every piece of technology that they've got on

359
00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:23.400
the spacecraft. They've zapped it with a laser, they've kind

360
00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:26.279
of looked at it with the spectrometers, they've looked at

361
00:22:26.279 --> 00:22:31.119
it with their mass spectrometers. They've really done everything to

362
00:22:31.160 --> 00:22:35.279
analyze it, and they still don't really have an answer

363
00:22:35.480 --> 00:22:39.519
as to whether this is the result of life or not.

364
00:22:40.519 --> 00:22:42.759
The only way we'll get that answer is by bringing

365
00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:49.279
it back, and there is their emissions being planned to

366
00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:54.079
bring rocks back to Earth from Mars so we can

367
00:22:54.119 --> 00:22:59.400
analyze them with laboratory instruments on Mars. But this is

368
00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:04.039
not likely to happen. Well, they're talking about twenty forty now,

369
00:23:04.519 --> 00:23:07.640
that return mission been pushed back and pushed back, and

370
00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:09.880
I'm not even sure whether the return mission that was

371
00:23:09.920 --> 00:23:13.119
being plumbed actually included rocks as big as this one.

372
00:23:13.640 --> 00:23:15.599
I think it was more for the you know, the

373
00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:18.720
caches of soil that have been collected on Mars and

374
00:23:18.839 --> 00:23:21.039
left in little piles on the surface of the planet.

375
00:23:21.640 --> 00:23:25.240
Yeah, it's very disappointing to hear that, because we all

376
00:23:25.319 --> 00:23:27.759
want to know, We all so very much want to know,

377
00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:32.440
and you know, we're finding telltale signs that life may

378
00:23:32.480 --> 00:23:34.640
have existed on Mars when it was a hot or

379
00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:35.359
wetter place.

380
00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:37.920
And how long.

381
00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:45.000
That life, if it did exist, survived is another big question. Yeah,

382
00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:49.440
but pushing it back to twenty forty, I mean, that's

383
00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:51.960
that's a gut punch, really, isn't it.

384
00:23:51.960 --> 00:23:57.039
It is. My understanding is that NASA. NASA is concerned

385
00:23:57.039 --> 00:24:02.640
about how much it costs to do that, and.

386
00:24:01.400 --> 00:24:06.480
It isn't isn't it The biggest question, well, in all

387
00:24:06.519 --> 00:24:10.559
of existence, is whether or not there is life in

388
00:24:10.640 --> 00:24:13.200
life beyond. I mean, isn't it worth spending a couple

389
00:24:13.240 --> 00:24:14.279
of bucks to find out.

390
00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:17.200
Yeah, I think it's eleven and a half billion. Is

391
00:24:17.240 --> 00:24:18.960
the current Trump.

392
00:24:18.920 --> 00:24:22.720
Change or should I say Trump change? No, it's it's a.

393
00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:27.000
Yeah, it's not a lot really easy.

394
00:24:27.799 --> 00:24:30.640
The what what I was going to say is that

395
00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:34.079
as I understand it, NASA is trying to interest the

396
00:24:34.119 --> 00:24:37.440
private sector into doing this. So if you can get

397
00:24:37.480 --> 00:24:41.400
a company that's prepared to invest a lot of money

398
00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:45.279
in a mission like this, that could be you know,

399
00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:47.799
certainly would put that company on the map, wouldn't it.

400
00:24:48.039 --> 00:24:51.000
You know, if you think thinks it's probably yeah, there's

401
00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:54.000
probably a couple of companies that could already do it, Yes,

402
00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:57.119
and it wouldn't make much of a dint in their value.

403
00:24:57.480 --> 00:24:59.920
So maybe they should be negotiating.

404
00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:03.599
I think that maybe what's happening, maybe we'll hear something,

405
00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:06.640
you know, all this sort of thing goes on behind

406
00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:07.480
the scenes as always.

407
00:25:08.039 --> 00:25:12.920
I mean, Elon Musk is planning to colonize Mars. Problem solved, Yeah,

408
00:25:13.279 --> 00:25:14.599
it's truly. He needs to know.

409
00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:18.279
He needs to know if there's stuff that's already colonized,

410
00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:21.039
and that might for the answer to that, yeah.

411
00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:21.559
Could be.

412
00:25:21.839 --> 00:25:25.160
Now that it is really fascinating story and well worth

413
00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:27.359
reading the whole thing.

414
00:25:27.559 --> 00:25:30.559
But yeah, we've.

415
00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:32.880
Been toying with the idea of life on Mars since

416
00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:37.480
I don't know the year dot. Yes, and the more

417
00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:39.680
we look, the more the evidence stacks up that it

418
00:25:40.359 --> 00:25:43.839
probably did exist. We just can't sort of nail that

419
00:25:44.039 --> 00:25:45.160
thing down.

420
00:25:46.839 --> 00:25:48.160
But time will tell.

421
00:25:48.799 --> 00:25:51.799
And of course it's not the only target in the

422
00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:53.880
Solar system, that's right.

423
00:25:54.279 --> 00:25:56.839
The ice moons are.

424
00:25:56.440 --> 00:26:01.920
Certainly areas of interest as well. Uh, let's move on

425
00:26:01.960 --> 00:26:05.440
to our final story, Fred, And this dates back a

426
00:26:05.440 --> 00:26:08.480
couple of years when when you were just a young fella.

427
00:26:09.240 --> 00:26:14.079
And then it involves a Danish astronomer named tiko' bry.

428
00:26:15.640 --> 00:26:19.640
He's in the news, but when you consider how long

429
00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:22.480
ago he was doing what he was doing, this.

430
00:26:22.359 --> 00:26:23.400
Is a bit of a surprise.

431
00:26:24.880 --> 00:26:28.680
Well, yes, he's well, he's one of the great names

432
00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:34.680
in astronomy. He just very briefly. He grew up in

433
00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:38.319
the Danish nobility. In fact, this is really interesting. So

434
00:26:38.759 --> 00:26:40.279
I have a whole one of my books had a

435
00:26:40.279 --> 00:26:42.880
whole chapter on Tikot and I've been to where he

436
00:26:43.119 --> 00:26:47.319
lived and worked many times. So's it's it's been very

437
00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:51.559
much part of my you know, my own astronomical journey.

438
00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:56.920
But he he was stolen from his parents by an

439
00:26:57.000 --> 00:27:00.400
uncle and brought up by them. Apparently that was quite

440
00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:02.920
common back in the day. But he was a Danish nobleman,

441
00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:06.279
all set for a career in diplomacy and things like that.

442
00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:09.200
But he discovered astronomy partly because of a super andover

443
00:27:09.680 --> 00:27:13.079
to go sup and over in fifteen seventy six, I

444
00:27:13.119 --> 00:27:17.880
think it was got mad keen on astronomy started building instruments.

445
00:27:18.920 --> 00:27:22.119
The king at the time, King Frederick the Second. I

446
00:27:22.119 --> 00:27:25.839
think it was good King fred He gave him this

447
00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:30.920
island in the US, which is the strait between modern

448
00:27:31.000 --> 00:27:35.000
day Sweden and Denmark, not very far from Copenhagen, and

449
00:27:35.039 --> 00:27:38.640
the island is called Vain. It's now then it was

450
00:27:38.880 --> 00:27:41.359
Hven in those days because it's part of Sweden now

451
00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:45.119
rather than Denmark. But anyway, he built this castle there

452
00:27:45.160 --> 00:27:51.839
called Iraniborg, which was fitted with all kinds of astronomical equipment.

453
00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:56.880
He basically in the fifteen eighties decided that wasn't good enough.

454
00:27:56.920 --> 00:28:00.680
He recognized that this castle with his astronomic instruments, was

455
00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:04.160
full of vibrations, so that limited how much he could

456
00:28:04.200 --> 00:28:08.160
measure things. So he built an underground observatory called Stiernborg

457
00:28:09.000 --> 00:28:12.200
underground in the sense that it was you know, there

458
00:28:12.200 --> 00:28:15.359
were crypts which were dug into the soil of vein,

459
00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:18.599
and he put his instruments there and had it covering

460
00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:20.839
on them to protect the weather. But they were completely

461
00:28:20.880 --> 00:28:24.039
open and these weren't telescopes. This was just before the

462
00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:27.240
invention of the telescope, so they're all naked eye observations.

463
00:28:27.279 --> 00:28:31.400
But he managed to make measurements accurate to about twenty

464
00:28:31.480 --> 00:28:36.599
seconds of arc, which were what allowed Johannes Kepler, who

465
00:28:36.720 --> 00:28:40.839
was one of his students, to formulate the laws of

466
00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:44.880
planetary motion. That took a bry's life in a nutshell.

467
00:28:45.640 --> 00:28:46.440
Yeah, amazing.

468
00:28:46.960 --> 00:28:51.920
But the point is that he also, as many scientists

469
00:28:52.039 --> 00:28:56.799
did in those days, tinkered with alchemy, the idea of

470
00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:01.119
you know, the elixir of life or forgotten what it

471
00:29:01.240 --> 00:29:05.960
was called the philosopher's stone. That was it. That was

472
00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:08.279
the philosopher's stone, the thing that will give you eternal

473
00:29:08.359 --> 00:29:11.519
life plus turning things into gold, all of that. He

474
00:29:11.599 --> 00:29:20.880
tinkered around with that, and unfortunately Tucco's castle was destroyed

475
00:29:21.519 --> 00:29:23.759
after his death. In fact, he may even have been

476
00:29:23.799 --> 00:29:26.319
before his death, because he left the island of Vain

477
00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:32.559
when Frederic's son Christian took over, and Christian didn't like Frederick. Sorry,

478
00:29:32.559 --> 00:29:35.599
he didn't like Tiko, so booted him off the island.

479
00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:40.160
And anyway, the last few years of Tuco's life were

480
00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:45.720
not very pleasant. But the locals essentially demolished the castle

481
00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:48.279
because he'd been a bit of a tyrant gottening the island,

482
00:29:48.599 --> 00:29:51.480
and they took all the stones from the castle to

483
00:29:51.519 --> 00:29:53.960
build their own houses, which is kind of what you

484
00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:57.799
do if the boss leaves. And so it's only remnants

485
00:29:57.839 --> 00:30:03.920
that are found of the castle, but some shards of material,

486
00:30:04.599 --> 00:30:09.279
including glass and ceramics, which probably came from Tiko's equipment.

487
00:30:10.200 --> 00:30:14.960
They were excavated back in the late nineteen eighties and

488
00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:18.559
they've been saved, but they've now been analyzed in detail

489
00:30:19.240 --> 00:30:24.440
by scientists at the University of Southern Denmark who've produced

490
00:30:24.519 --> 00:30:29.240
some very interesting results. And this is using you know,

491
00:30:29.319 --> 00:30:33.720
twenty first century analytical techniques, laser ablation and all sorts

492
00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:37.559
of things like this to discover what was in these

493
00:30:37.759 --> 00:30:42.039
samples of the you know, the containers that Tuco used,

494
00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:46.359
and it turned out there was nickel copper's inked in

495
00:30:46.559 --> 00:30:51.160
antimony tungsten, gold, mercury, and lead on the shards. And

496
00:30:51.200 --> 00:30:54.119
these are ones that are very much mainstays of an

497
00:30:54.160 --> 00:30:58.359
alchemist's laboratory. And I'm quoting the Cosmos Magazindiot's a lotly

498
00:30:58.400 --> 00:31:06.160
way to put it. They are too, the the interesting

499
00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:13.200
one that has produced a bit of a puzzles tungsten,

500
00:31:13.480 --> 00:31:17.799
that's right. Tungsten wasn't really known at that time, and

501
00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:23.119
yet it's found in Tuco's laboratory. And this is you know,

502
00:31:23.720 --> 00:31:28.440
what a what an interesting, interesting suggestion. Maybe he was

503
00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:30.240
more ahead of his time than we thought he.

504
00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:34.960
Was possibly, so, yeah, fascinating. And so they've only just

505
00:31:35.799 --> 00:31:39.440
kind of happened across this now they they've now that

506
00:31:39.480 --> 00:31:42.519
they've done the analysis, that's right, makes you makes you

507
00:31:42.599 --> 00:31:43.599
wonder what he was up to.

508
00:31:44.599 --> 00:31:46.880
Yeah, that's right. He was, you know, he was the

509
00:31:46.960 --> 00:31:52.279
one person scientific institution, and he brought scientists from all

510
00:31:52.319 --> 00:31:56.000
over Europe to work with him. They were, you know,

511
00:31:56.039 --> 00:32:01.000
his laboratory assistants and his colleagues. He he was very

512
00:32:01.039 --> 00:32:04.559
much into the modern way of doing science. Because he

513
00:32:04.599 --> 00:32:07.640
realized he had to publish everything. He ran out of

514
00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:10.160
paper for his publication, so I built a paper mill

515
00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:16.240
and made paper on the island. Totally entrepreneurial, an extraordinary person.

516
00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:20.079
And you know, maybe he was even more extraordinary than

517
00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:22.559
we knew before from this recent work.

518
00:32:23.720 --> 00:32:25.440
Yeah, it's a pity it sort of came to a

519
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:27.680
grinding hold the way it did, by the sound of things.

520
00:32:27.720 --> 00:32:32.279
But he did, he did have a legacy because of

521
00:32:32.680 --> 00:32:36.680
his students went on to bigger and better things, and

522
00:32:35.960 --> 00:32:39.200
that's probably one of his great achievements that he made.

523
00:32:39.599 --> 00:32:43.279
He inspired others to do wonderful work.

524
00:32:43.440 --> 00:32:47.640
Most notably Kepler with his planet loads of planetary motion.

525
00:32:47.720 --> 00:32:52.200
But he was also into what we now called prosthetic surgery.

526
00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:54.680
He lost most of his nose in the sword fight

527
00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:57.759
when he was nineteen, and he tinkered around with copper

528
00:32:57.759 --> 00:33:00.839
and brass to make a false nose, the other silver

529
00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:05.079
and gold one on Sundays, you know as well. It

530
00:33:05.200 --> 00:33:08.359
was in contact with with people who were doing the

531
00:33:08.359 --> 00:33:12.640
same sort of thing. Quite quite amazing, incredible bloke. Yeah,

532
00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:15.920
I should make a movie about him, but actually they should,

533
00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:19.000
and they may well have done in Denmark, just too possible.

534
00:33:19.240 --> 00:33:23.680
Just to clarify, his name was actually Jugo Brauer, that's

535
00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:27.000
how it would have been pronounced. But it's latinised TIKOBRAI

536
00:33:27.440 --> 00:33:28.680
we pronounce it.

537
00:33:28.640 --> 00:33:32.720
That, and some people would pronounce his first name Tycho.

538
00:33:32.799 --> 00:33:35.759
And it reminds me of the TV series The Expanse,

539
00:33:35.799 --> 00:33:38.759
which had a space station in it named Tycho's Station.

540
00:33:39.319 --> 00:33:40.519
That's where it came from.

541
00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:43.160
Yep. I always wondered. I didn't look it up.

542
00:33:43.160 --> 00:33:46.880
But now I know. Yeah, that is really really great

543
00:33:46.920 --> 00:33:48.839
story and if you would like to read it, as

544
00:33:48.880 --> 00:33:53.599
Fred mentioned, it's in Cosmos Magazine dot com. One more

545
00:33:53.640 --> 00:33:57.599
thing before we finish up, Fred, Those who listen to

546
00:33:57.640 --> 00:34:01.119
our podcast could be using any number of platforms, but

547
00:34:01.160 --> 00:34:04.000
one of the platforms that's fallen by the wayside is

548
00:34:04.160 --> 00:34:06.759
Google Podcasts, and we did have quite a few people

549
00:34:06.799 --> 00:34:12.920
that used Google. Google has basically asked all the people

550
00:34:12.920 --> 00:34:16.199
who used Google podcast you've probably got an email about it,

551
00:34:16.760 --> 00:34:19.840
maybe even this week. I got one today saying if

552
00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:23.400
you subscribed to podcasts on Google and you can no

553
00:34:23.480 --> 00:34:27.639
longer access them, you can still transfer them to YouTube.

554
00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:31.760
So if you haven't done that yet, you can transfer

555
00:34:31.840 --> 00:34:35.280
all your podcasts, including Space Nuts, from Google podcast to

556
00:34:35.400 --> 00:34:39.119
the YouTube platform, where I will always remind you to

557
00:34:39.199 --> 00:34:42.079
hit the subscribe button if you haven't already. I just

558
00:34:42.119 --> 00:34:43.440
wanted to let you know about that.

559
00:34:43.960 --> 00:34:44.239
Fred.

560
00:34:44.320 --> 00:34:48.760
We're done for another day, Thank you, sir, pleasure.

561
00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:51.639
Oh as always always good to talk about these things.

562
00:34:51.840 --> 00:34:54.360
Thank you very much, Andrew, not a problem.

563
00:34:54.360 --> 00:34:58.800
We'll catch you again soon, Professor Fred Watson, Astronomer at Large, and.

564
00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:00.320
Don't forget here in this udeo.

565
00:35:02.039 --> 00:35:04.559
There you go, I remember it, and from me Andrew Dunkley,

566
00:35:04.559 --> 00:35:06.280
thanks for your company. Catch you on the very next

567
00:35:06.320 --> 00:35:07.519
episode of Space Nuts.

568
00:35:07.880 --> 00:35:11.480
See you then bye bye. You'll be listening to the

569
00:35:11.559 --> 00:35:13.480
Space Nuts podcast.

570
00:35:14.519 --> 00:35:20.559
Available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or your favorite podcast player.

571
00:35:20.760 --> 00:35:24.039
You can also stream on demand at bites dot com.

572
00:35:24.079 --> 00:35:34.159
This has been another quality podcast production from nights dot com.
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