#430: Dark Energy Theories & Voyager's Cosmic Rays: Your Queries Answered

WEBVTT

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Hi there. This is Space Nuts
where we talk astronomy and space science.

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My name is Andrew Dunkley, your
host. Good to have your company.

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This is our Q and A edition
where we take audience questions and we chop

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them up and throw them out because
we don't know the answer to anything.

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But we are going to attempt to
discuss atmospheric tubes. Now, this is

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a question that Jeff's come up with. It's a sort of a what if

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question, so we'll look at that. Paddy is asking questions about Voyager one,

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which has been in the news lately. And Oliver, one of our

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younger listeners, is talking radiation,
dark matter and dark energy. All coming

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up on this episode of Space Nuts
fifteen seconds. Guidance is in channel ten

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nine ignition sequence Space Nuts or three
two more red ones Space Nuts. As

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can I report it. Bill's good
and we say hello once again to Professor

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Fred. What's an astronomer at La
TI? Fred? Hello, Andrew,

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fancy seeing you here? Yes,
welcome back. It's been minutes. Not

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even sure it was minutes. I
think it might just be saying continued.

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Do you think this joke is getting
a bit old? Now? It's pretty

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awful in it. But space Nuts
is nol for one thing. It's its

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bud jokes. Terrible jokes. Horrible
jokes. Yes, we'll keep them coming

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too. Shall we get straight into
it? No, let's let true.

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Well yeah, okay, fair enough. What I do love about space Nuts

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is we've got people listening all over
the world, lots of questions coming from

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different parts of the planet. But
we do have a young audience too,

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which I think is one of the
great things about it, having young people

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having such an interest in astronomy and
space science. One of those people is

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Oliver, and Oliver's got a well
a pretty curly one, but he's got

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his own ideas on this as well. Let's see what he's on about.

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Yeah. Hello, I am Oliver
from Queensland. I was just wondering a

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pretty interesting question. So you know
that a black hole creates radiation, How

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can it doesn't get immediately softened?
Does that mean the radiation has to go

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faster than the speed of light?
But what if it's just going a bit

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faster? But what if black holes
that could create dark energy that would actually

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solve a lot of things white it
And if dark energy, what if that

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combines with matter particles and that creates
dark matter. I think that would make

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a lot of scent. And with
little things that can go fast, it

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goes over there and makes the border
of the universe grow even faster and faster.

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And when it grows faster and faster, the reason it guru's faster and

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faster. I know, I'm saying
faster and faster a lot back. What

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if it goes faster and faster because
there's more space for the radiation to not

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collide with other minor particles, so
it can go to the border of the

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universe quicker. So we can't tell
because it's there because it's going so fast.

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Our telescopes, like the Hubble space
telescope can't see it because it's going

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faster than the speed of light.
It's just a quick question. Thanks,

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love the show, Goodbye. Please
tell me a good answer. No,

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I don't really care as long as
it gets solved there. I love that

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ending, Oliver. That's brilliant.
Gosh, what a there's a lot in

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there that we've got to unpack.
The first part was about radiation. How

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come radiation from a black hole doesn't
get sucked straight back in? That's a

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good question. It's a great question
and more, you know, thank you

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again, Oliver for getting in touch
with us and for bringing a breath the

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fresh air to questions. It's great
to have your I just I'm revved up

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by his excitement, you know too, I really am me too. So

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we think that hawking radiation, or
the radiation that's emitted from black holes,

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doesn't come from the black hole itself. It actually comes at the event horizon.

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So the event horizon is that sphere. It's an imaginary sphere around the

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black hole, but it's the point
where there's the black hole's gravitational attraction stops

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any light emanating from the black hole. So outside the black hole, light

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can travel around inside the black hole, it can't because it just gets pulled

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back in. Sorry, outside the
event horizon, light can travel around inside

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the event horizon, it just gets
pulled back in. And we think hawking

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radiation, well, it seems to
be the case that it's formed by what

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we call virtual party FLEs articles basically
coming into being and disappearing again. And

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they come into being in pairs.
And if one of the pair is inside

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the event horizon and the other one
isn't, then the one that's outside the

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event horizon gets away and can travel
because it's not within the region where the

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speed of light isn't enough to get
away from the black hole. I hope

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that makes sense. But that's why
the hawking radiation doesn't just get pulled back

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in. And it is electro excuse
me, it is electromagnetic radiation. It

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is a mixture of the different wavelengths. It's probably pretty low energy, and

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we have never detected it, but
the theoretical basis is sound enough that we

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are pretty sure that it exists.
Okay, And what leads, by the

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way to the evaporation of black holes. It's an energy loss from black holes

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that over billions, many billions,
perhaps tens of billions of years, the

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black hole will evaporate and disappear.
Thankfully. Sorry, So that's one part

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of his question. Yes, he
goes on to ask about a black hole

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being the reason the dark energies.
Now, there are some theories and studies

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going on that suggests this. That's
right, We've covered that, and I

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keep meaning to re look at that
paper just to work out what the mechanism

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is. But there is certainly a
view, if I remember rightly, was

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it Japanese scientists who postulated this.
I can't remember. We should look back

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at it and perhaps do it in
a bit more detail sometime. But yes,

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there was this view that perhaps phenomena
taking place within black holes are what

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lead to the dark energy of the
universe. The only issue with that that

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comes to my mind is that we
we equate, we believe, and the

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evidence seems to be that the dark
energy of the universe is totally uniform,

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that it's the same everywhere, And
if it was something to do with black

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calls, you might think it will
be a bit bomp it where, you

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know, the more black holes you've
got in one part of space, the

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more dark energy you've got. But
that doesn't seem to be the case.

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So I do need to look at
that again. Andrew, Okay, yeah,

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but see that there in lies the
problem with dark energy. We keep

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coming up with new theories, new
ideas, new problems associated with those new

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theories and new ideas, and it
just keeps going around and around and around.

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In our last episode was the question
came up as to how the galaxies

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and galaxy clusters can possibly exist as
they are if there isn't a dark matter

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halo big enough to cover it,
so we've got our thinking wrong. Well,

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yeah, I don't know. And
then Oliver goes on to ask if

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dark energy could, as it moves
through the the universe, affect particles and

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become dark matter. Could they be
a relationship between the two even though by

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name they're not actually very accurate or
are well their names they're both called dark

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something, and that's probably where the
similarity ends. Very different in their nature.

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And yes, it's a good point. We Oliver talked about, you

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know, there being more space in
the universe as a dark energy makes it

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expand things can travel to the boundary
of the universe more rapidly. We don't

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actually know if the universe has a
boundary or not. We suspect it may

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not have. It may be infinite. The boundary that we can see as

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a horizon the cosmic microwave background radiation, which is what blocks our view beyond,

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so that we don't see that the
you know, the more distant regions

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of the universe. The universe might
be very big, indeed that we can

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see might be quite small in comparison, so and faster than light travel.

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I mean, Einstein's theory holds true. That in space itself, nothing can

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move faster than light. Space itself
can and probably did during the period of

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inflation, and it may do again
if dark energy keeps on accelerating the expansion

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of the universe, so that one
day the universe is so big that some

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things that emit light it never gets
here because that those that have been carried

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away faster than the speed of light
by the space itself, but not the

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light moving through it. So interesting
questions there. I do like your thinking,

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Oliver, and I hope as time
goes on we might hear from you

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again. Oh that would be lovely, Oliver. Thanks very much for getting

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in touch with us, and don't
lose that youthful enthusiasm ever, because it

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is such a ray of light,
and I really appreciate hearing from you.

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This is space Nuts. Andrew Dunkley
here with Professor Fred Watson. Space puts

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Now. Fred to a text question
that came in from Patty. Hi,

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guys, thanks for answering my last
question about the end of life. I

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remember that one. I remember that
one. Yeah, thanks Patty. So

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here's a more boring one or four. After Voyager one's recent drama, what

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is a cosmic ray and how came
it affects Voyager and not computers on Earth?

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Did NASA have to get people out
of retire out of retirement to reprogram

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the seventies computer? And he's made
a reference to the movie The Martian where

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they had to do that for the
path find a mission that they had to

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reinvent during that show. Three,
how can NASA hear such a week week

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signal? I've seen the DSN website
and the signal looks weaker than a mouse

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part the moon. He's got a
great turn of phrase, Isn't he's a

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technical term? Yeah? I know. We can shout really loud to Voyager,

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but the return signal is so weak. For will new horizons ever overtake

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Voyager given it smaller and launched on
a bigger rocket. I think that's more

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than four, but that's a full
episode covered. Thanks again, guys.

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Paddy from rainy Northern Ireland, home
of the Amar Observatory, where, at

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the age of eight his interest in
space began. Now, granddad, so

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it wasn't yesterday? Yeah, great
questions, budd It at Alma's a wonderful

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place we visited a few years ago. I know the director there very well,

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he's a colleague of mine from Edinburgh
days and also here in Australia.

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He worked for many years in Australia, Michael Burton. So let's go to

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the beginning that you've got a list
of four here. What's a cosmic ray,

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Well, it's high energy particle.
I think they're primarily muons if I

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remember rightly, and we think they
come from distant galaxies, that there are

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products of energetic, energetic events in
very different galaxies, and yet they're raining

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down on Earth all the time.
How come it affects Voyager and not computers

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on Earth because computers on Earth are
shielded by the Earth's magnetic field and its

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atmosphere, and so we are not
irradiated to the same extent. We do

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get them though. Cosmic ray events
are things that we used to deal with

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in some of the detectors that are
used. In fact, I think we

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spoke about this a little while ago. Maybe we didn't, can't remember,

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but the recent araori which we saw
on Earth May the tenth, we're also

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visible on Mars because the subatomic particles
from the Sun affected the detectors on some

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of the cameras. We had the
same thing actually with cosmic rays, which

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are much more energetic than the rays
that come from the sun. Back in

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the day when I used to build
instruments, one of the problems that we

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had was these cosmic rays essentially creating
little bright spots in the images, which

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you had to be careful you didn't
mix up with something that you were trying

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to try to measure. In fact, one of them we discovered that the

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window of the on the front of
the detector was slightly radioactive, so we

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were getting our own cosmic rays from
that. Anyway, the bottom line is

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protection by the atmosphere. Didn't have
to get people out of retirement to reprogram

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the seventies computer, or probably it
happens to us a lot. Certainly the

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Australian Astronomical Observatory, where we used
to be astronomery in charge. That's a

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long lived observatory, celebrates its fiftieth
anniversary this year, and so the original

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some of the original pro programmers still
around. They're retired, but they are

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occasionally called in when there are problems. So it almost certainly happened with NASA

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too. How can NASA here such
a weak signal? Well, big dishes,

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big that's right. The darks.
The Deep Space Network website will tell

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you that the Tidbinbiller and the Goldstone
and the Madrid stations all have very big

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detectors, very big radio telescopes that
can pick up that really weak signal.

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Number four of Paddy's questions, will
New Horizons ever overtake Voyager giving it smaller

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and launched on a big rocket,
And the answer is no. You can

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very easily find the numbers on the
Events Above website. They've got a page

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on spacecraft leaving the Solar System and
the first thing you see is that the

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one that's going fastest is Voyager one, at sixteen point nine to three to

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three kilometers per second relative to the
Sun at present. New Horizons, on

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the other hand, thirteen point six
seventy five kilometers per second, so slower

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and not as far away. So
Voyager one is always going to be the

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most distant object, the most distant
human made object. It will it will

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always have that status unless it hits
something, and New Horizons don't. Well,

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the odds of yeah, you never
know, it might hit something.

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My guess is it will go on
forever because space is so big. Yeah,

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maybe it might get captured by you
know, it's further down the street

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to the chemist, but it's that's
right. Space is big. That's right.

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What was there? Was there another
one of she's at it, Thank

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you buddy. Fantastic questions, but
yeah, well worth asking because Voyager has

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been in the news because the've had
some technical issues but they've they've sorted them

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out, so that might be where
they drag back the old retired nineteen seventies

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computer programmers with their tape cartridges and
things like that. Yeah, those are

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the days. Like yeah, technology
is taking the fun out of everything.

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Back in the day of tape and
vinyl. Gosh, working in radio was

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such a joy. These days you
push a button and go to sleep for

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a couple of minutes. It wasn't
like that back in the day. I'll

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tell you now when I was a
lad. I'm say from my perspective,

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things are far far better now than
they It's certainly a lot easier until something

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breaks. Thank you, Patty space
Nuts. Now to our final question Fred,

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and this one comes from Jeff.
It's I'm down on the UK coast.

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I love the podcast, by the
way, boys. My question is

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if you have a magic pipe for
arguments say the meter wide diameter this pipe

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is totally in this story sport,
but it doesn't weigh anything. So if

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you extend it out, say six
hundred miles out into space, would it

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suck the atmosphere out? I don't
think it would, but be interesting nominal

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years anyway. Cheers, chaps,
keep it up, you know, I

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love what if questions? Jeffs And
that's a real rip up. So it's

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an indestructible pipe, so space junk
doesn't become a factor, and it's in

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the atmosphere. It's on Earth,
and you shove it up out through the

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atmosphere into space where the atmosphere is
almost nil, it's obviously hollow. Does

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it suck out our atmosphere and kill
us all? Uh? No, which

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is great relief to all of us. Rather so, the reason why is

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that the atmosphere in the tube just
feels the same gravitational pull as the atmosphere

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everywhere else. So the pressure at
the bottom of the tube is always going

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to be the same effectively as the
atmospheric pressure. It might vary slightly if

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the tube is sealed so that you
can't get leakage of varian at the bottom

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then it won't be subject to the
same quite the same atmosphere pressure changes that

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the outer atmosphere does. But it
basically is still the atmosphere and it's still

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bound by the gravity of the Earth. So yep, it won't. It

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00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:48.440
won't leak away. So why having
the effect at all? You can't even

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wrong, japp is down. So
if you're thinking about, you know,

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checking that out building a tube from
the Isle of White up to six hundred

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kilometers, don't worry. It's not
going to away. It'd be a big

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chimney. Yeah, that would be
well, yeah, but the smoke it

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eventually back up, wouldn't It wouldn't
get out in the space. If it

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was a chimney, that's correct,
it would do what it does on Earth.

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It would just continue to it would
continue to rise as long as it

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was warm, and that it would
just contribute to the general less of the

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atmosphere in the tube. Indeed,
all right, so you were right,

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Jeff. You didn't even need to
ask the question because you knew the answer.

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But that's okay. I love these
types of questions, the what if

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00:19:34.279 --> 00:19:37.920
questions. By the way, if
you do have a question for us,

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00:19:37.960 --> 00:19:41.440
don't forget to visit our website,
where you can click on the amail link

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00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:44.640
and send us a text or audio
question, or click on the send us

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00:19:44.680 --> 00:19:49.200
your Questions button on the right hand
side of our homepage where you can leave

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00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:52.799
an audio question. Don't forget to
tell us who you are and where you're

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00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:56.440
from. We really do love to
know where you're at. And while you're

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00:19:57.039 --> 00:20:02.720
listening to us on your preferred podcast
platform, please leave a review. That'll

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00:20:02.759 --> 00:20:07.559
be doing us a wonderful favor.
Apparently reviews make a huge difference to the

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00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:11.440
state of dark matter in the universe, or the dark matter on the Internet

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00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:17.000
for that matter. Football Yeah,
we love your reviews. We really appreciate

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them. And Fred and thanks to
Jeff, Patty and Oliver for contributing today.

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Keep the questions coming, Fred,
we're done for another day. Thank

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you so much. Sounds great,
Andrew, and we'll touch up again soon,

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00:20:27.880 --> 00:20:33.200
I hope, I hope so too. Yes, maybe today, maybe

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tomorrow, days, maybe next week. See then. Fred Watson astronomer at

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large and Hugh in the studio doing
what Hugh does best, and we don't

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know what that is. And for
me, Andrew Dunkley, thanks for your

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00:20:45.400 --> 00:20:49.400
company. Catch you next time on
another episode of Space Nuts. Bye Bye

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00:20:51.799 --> 00:20:59.559
You'll Be The Space Nuts podcast available
at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, I Heart

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00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:03.160
Radio, or your favorite podcast player. You can also stream on demand at

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00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:11.319
bites dot com. This has been
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