Facing the Why of Addiction | Michael Bacchioni

Deana Brown Mitchell: Hi there, it's Deana with The Realize Foundation. And I'm back today with Michael to talk about his chapter in Scars to Stars Volume two. So hi, Michael, welcome.

How are you?

Deana Brown Mitchell: I'm great. I'm glad to see you. Again, it's been a little bit since we talked and your chapter is awesome. I'm really glad to have it as part of this book, I think it's a topic that most people think about or deal with, but don't talk about much. So thank you for sharing. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask you a couple of questions. And the first one is, can you tell our audience a little bit about what your chapter is about?

Yeah, sure. It's about facing the wife and bitching. sort of lay it all out right off the bat, I was struggling with porn addiction for a long time. And the reason, no one really taught me how to express masculine, masculine energy. And in a world where we're told toxic masculinity, I would kind of hide that masculine part of me. And it led me to a point where I would just ask, Why, why, why. And when you peel back a few layers of why it makes people very uncomfortable. So it's no wonder why I could never really find the answers. So, but once I got to the point where I really started going within myself and trying to really, you know, understand that we're all the same, at the end of the day that we have, we live we have an animal body, we have, you know, desires and how to, you know, connect with God, and tie that it's how to be in the world, but not others. You know, indicators of shame and guilt can actually be very powerful lessons that we run away from shame and guilt, that we actually make it stronger. And when we kind of listen to that shame and guilt, and also to distinct that there were, there is subjective shame and guilt, which is, you know, stories, we tell ourselves the lies that we can tell ourselves that, you know, maybe we learn from our parents or society that, you know, we're not good enough. And then I believe there's an objective truth. And that's, you know, a moral compass, which isn't, you know, people are afraid to be judged. But I think that at a certain level, we should aim for the best version of ourselves. And when we feel shaming guilt, and I think it's really authentic sense. It's a calling to say, hey, you know, what, there's a better version of you that's available. And it's a really hard thing to do to hold people to that, right. Because we're, we always hear things like, Well, nobody's perfect. Well, that's true. And I think, you know, we've talked about this before, that, I think it's important to, to give people that message at first, especially people who are dealing with suicidal thoughts, as, as we've talked about, because that's not the time to give tough love. That's the time to listen. And that's a time for people to share their opinion without judging them. But I think after that point, that's the opportunity to kind of poke and prod and say, hey, you know, what, you're not being the strongest version of yourself. And this is an opportunity to grow. And that's what I was really looking for. Right? I was really looking for somebody to do that. And then I just faced myself, you know, and now I'm in a position where I'm doing that for other people.

Deana Brown Mitchell: That's awesome. Yeah. And I think I think YOUR story the way you wrote it can apply to many situations. And then you talk about your your situation with porn, but, you know, I think the way you wrote it, it could apply to other addictions in the world, in other you know, situations that people might find themselves in, it might not be the same as you, but similar to what you were dealing with and how you dealt with it could also help them even if it's a different situation, maybe it's alcohol, maybe it's drugs, maybe it's, you know, who knows what,

Anything that feels good, right, anything that feels good, can end up enslaving us and, and trapping us and it's to live in both have the right to enjoy the soda enjoy the ice cream, but remember, that's the same thing back can entrap you and to see it for what it is rather than, Oh, I'm bad. I shouldn't eat ice cream. I'm bad. I look, I screwed up my diet again. Now it's see it for what it is and appreciate that we live in this body, but it's also it's anything that's temporary. And we try to make something that's permanent temporary, we ended up in trapping ourselves.

Deana Brown Mitchell: That is That is so true. So my second question for you is, how was your experience writing your story? And, you know, I know you haven't really met a lot of the other authors or or been in our community a lot yet but normally asked about that too, because it's it's a built in support system when you join scars to stars because there's so many people that are already involved in And, you know, they're just, they're there, and they understand what we're doing. And they understand going through things and needing support. And it's just, it's become an amazing community. And I can't wait for you to meet everybody.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. Well, full transparency. This is the first time I've ever written a book, you know. And, you know, when we went to Utah, I had a couple of days, when you told me, I just had a couple of days to write it. So I just kind of just wrote it down, I even hit the mouse, it was a little shorter than it was supposed to be. But it was really good. And just before we started speaking, I would say, you know that this is something that it was an opportunity for me to really get my thoughts down on paper, it was just this a short story. But it's, I think it's something that really everyone should do. Because as you start writing down, it's a it's really a process with being able to clarify your thoughts. I've been write something and then, you know, it's dipping down on paper. So it was really, for me, it was a great experience. And I look forward to doing that again in the future. But, yeah, I think it's, for me, I think one of the biggest things that I try to do is try to inspire people to do something like you can buy 1000 books, I have a lot of books, a lot of books, I haven't read, oh, I have this book I have, I have a whole bunch of books here. But I haven't read all of them. Because I think it's really important that you are the author of your story. So your story is important. Wherever you are watching this, my story is important enough story is important, that just start writing it down. Because I think it's so easy to become the observer, you're sitting on the sidelines, right? I just wrote this, I should be the testament that you can write something, it doesn't have to be, you have to publish it tomorrow, but just write it down and share it with somebody in your life. And it's something that I think, really, really helped. And it's inspired me to take the next step and write even more so.

Deana Brown Mitchell: Oh, good. I'm so glad it's true. And I was saying to Michael, before we got on here is that, you know, people told me for years, I should journal and I kept saying, I don't have time for that. And when when COVID happened, I started journaling, like religiously, and it changed everything. For me, it helps me get my thoughts out of my head, where I wasn't, you know, I was constantly, I don't know if it's my anxiety or what, but I constantly think of the same things over and over and over and over. It's like making to do lists over and over, you know, so I don't forget something. And when I started journaling, it really helped me with that anxious energy around, you know, all the things I needed to do and all the things on my plate. And then it turned into, you know, writing, I had written the chapter and a couple books before COVID. And those were really hard for me because it was first time I'd written and I was like, I don't know what people want to hear like, I don't know what what I should say. And so it's been a journey for me in the writing arena. And I did write a chapter in this book, which was a little different, because I never written anything so personal. But I think it's it's healing. But and I think once we free ourselves of whatever it is inside that we're we've been hiding, you know, whatever that is, once we free ourselves of hiding something. It's a whole different world. Because we all think we're alone, we think nobody could have ever been through what we've been through. And it's just not true. There's so many people in the world, that when you step up with this book, and you put your story out there, you're gonna have people coming out of the woodwork telling you, I've been through that too. I have a similar story i and it's crazy, because we all are in our little box. And we think we're all alone. And there's no help and there's no support and nobody could ever understand. And do you know that's kind of what our whole foundation is about, is reaching people with these stories. So they know they're not alone. And they're not the only one that's been in this situation. That's,

That's because I literally got goosebumps as you're saying that because I wrote a little bit in this chapter about David Goggins, who has been a really big influence for managers. For those of you who don't know, David Goggins, he is someone who has, he competes in 200 mile races, he ran 100 mile race, weekends in a row. So IE a total of 800 Miles broken down 100. And it wasn't so much like, oh, wow, like, I want to run that many miles. It was like, What makes someone do that, right. And that's what really is sort of asked me and he says, the same thing that you just said is that, you know, this whole world, this whole world, it's just one big head game. And once you realize that, you know, judgment from exterior, it's just people and this is why I try to tie in biblical principles in a way At night, and I'm still trying to understand it myself, I don't want to just, there's a difference between religion I believe in religion this Sunday going Christians, that when you get to the core, you realize everyone's you, you get to that place where I think it's such a power, you get someplace where you don't care what anyone thinks. But it's not like a cold. It's not like you don't care about other people. But the truth is that there's people going to judge you, and they're going to bully you, and to be in a place where you can own your story without it becoming like, you know, a soap opera to write because I think that with everything, there's a lot of light. Yeah, no knock on Dr. Phil. But like, there's too much drama too, right? So it's like to share your story, not forgetting to tension, but to connect with other people that you don't, you know, when people like try to judge you, it's almost that you can like, like, yeah, that's part of my story, I had to mess up. Like, it's just a matter of fact, I think at first it becomes like, Hey, I gotta open my heart and share this. But at a certain level, just like, No, it's It's kind of like, Christ talks about a sword of truth. It's like, this is the truth, I have nothing to hide with it. Right. And and, yeah, I think that's that 100%, what you said is that we think that we're different than other people. And we're, we're really not, it's just once we, once we understand that, then we also have the ability to confront other people, right? Because I think that's, that's one of the things that is really important, too, is that instead of, I think we protect victims, but I think we should strengthen victims of people who are bullied as well, right? We have to, we have to have the ability to if and have teeth, and stand up for ourselves. Because the world can be cold. And you know, when people are bullying, we need to stand up to bullies realize that there's a bullying of victim within all of us. And once you know that, and it's like, you become kind of invulnerable through absolute vulnerability.

Deana Brown Mitchell: That's a really good point. And to what you were saying earlier, I just have to share, I feel like I was supposed to share this is that, you know, I was silent about my failed suicide attempt for 23 years. And I know you know that. But yeah, I think I think that I was petrified of anyone knowing about that of talking about it. And in 2018, I lost a friend to suicide that I'd known for 20 years. And if any of you have followed me, you probably know the story. But the point of it is, when my friend died, it wasn't easy. But I was in a position where in my heart and my head, there was no way I could stay silent. Because I could never be in a situation like that, again, I could never be in a situation where someone I was my friend and I cared about died, and didn't know what I knew and could have shared to help. And that moment, changed everything for me. Because it was no longer about me and what people thought about me, it was about saving someone that I cared about. And it, it changed everything. And I think that that sometimes we have to have a reason like that, to speak up about our story that is very personal. And sometimes we just get to the point where we've healed from it and we're willing to share it. I don't think at that point, I was healed from it, because I never talked about it. So it was a COVID was a blessing in disguise for me because it gave me that time to really process it and really understand what I had been through and why. And I had to even talk to friends to even remember things because I blocked it out for so long. But it's like you, you are in a situation where you feel like you might could have done something. But you you didn't do the things that would have made it possible. I don't know how to explain it. But it really did change my outlook on life and my outlook on myself and how other people see me, and I didn't care anymore as my whole life. And all I wanted to do was prove myself to everyone.

Yeah, that makes me think that's so funny. You asked me 10 years ago, I'd be like saying Christ as much as I was now I'd be like okay, ridiculous, like, but I just keep thinking of the wisdom of crowds that like one of the things that she says is if you don't bring out what's within you, what's within you will destroy you. And to me that has two meanings is one is that we all have pain, and that we bring that out within us as you as we're speaking it is like you're sharing, you're helping other people so you're helping other people. It's completely no words are going to help fix the pain that you feel All right. So I mean, that's it is, it's already happened. There's nothing we can do about it now. But what we're doing now is there's people, this is going to save people's lives right now. So it's a, I don't want to say a blessing in disguise, you don't want to everyone, anyone, but when you look at through the world through pure eyes, realize that everything that bad happens in life can be a blessing and the opposite to that's why I say the ice cream, the ice cream analogy that we try to feel good, but those things can end up making us feel bad. So rather than seeking feeling good, you seek fulfillment, which is that's peeling back a lot of the layers why we do what we do. But yeah, bad idea that it's always stuck with me, it's what made me start my YouTube channel and engage more in this is that if you don't bring out what's within you, what's within you will destroy you. Because that guilt and pain, it's not a bad deal and pain are not a bad thing. It's a bad place to live. Right? Because and when you speak with someone who is going through suicidal thoughts, what I've realized is that I think if those people again, most people are honest, everybody's gonna get to a place where like, why am I even living? But whether whether they act on it, or, you know, they speak it out. Everybody is going to have that thought, I believe at one point in their life, why am I at least why am I doing what I'm doing right now? Why did my at this job? Why am I whatever the why is right. And when they start looking for when they start asking for help from other people, a lot of people are so built in, they haven't faced that question two. So now we're getting a feedback system from a whole bunch of people who haven't asked the why they're doing what they're doing. They're just I, this is what I do. And this is how I do it. Now, why am I doing what I'm doing? So at a certain point, they get feedback, like why am I even in this room anymore? Nobody has the answers. Right? So when you're dealing with somebody who else that you know, yeah, those that's the opportunity to be real. When someone's sharing their pain, share your pain and say, Hey, I'm going through this too, because then there's, there's feedback. Hey, you know what, I'm not alone. I'm not the only one going through this pain. People are asking the same questions. And, you know, the worst thing I think people can do when they're faced with people who are going through that those suicidal thoughts is the cliche answer. It's okay. Don't worry. There's people who have worse situations and do, the best thing you can do is share your pain, share your dark side, share that piece of you that, you know, and put yourself out there because that's to me, we're hungry for authenticity, we're not hungry for the answer. The time for him to feel good answers is done. I think we need we want a video where love is real. It's not nice words, it's been real. So

Deana Brown Mitchell: I agree. I think I just recorded when what we're calling the hope course on the main page of our website. And it's free, it's just four videos of me talking. It's like less than 30 minutes to watch them all. And it's really talking about that kind of stuff. And part of it is how do we support somebody we care about going through that time. And it is really important not to say, you should just be happy, you have so much to be thankful for you have an all that might be true, but that's not helping the situation. And I think a lot of people when when somebody's having suicidal thoughts, they shut down because they don't want to say the wrong thing. And they don't know what to say. So I'm hoping that, you know, our, our videos and our conversations and community is helping spread the word of how do we support someone like that. And it really is just listening and being there and whatever they need. Maybe it's like, Let's go on a hike, let's do a puzzle, let's watch a movie. It could just be being together and talking about something that they're looking forward to. Because Johnny Crowder who started coke notes, he told me one time he's like, I postponed my death one time because I wanted to go to a concert. So like there's, there's a real thing about finding something in the future they're excited about, because then they want to, they want to stick around. So I know that's that's kind of heavy. But it's it's very true. And I just want to end by saying that, you know, realize foundation.org You can register for our book launch event. We have other events there you can register for most of them are virtual, we're going to do a first in person, one in Telluride in September, which we're going to announce soon. But you know, our mission is to reduce the suicide rates. And that is through conversation community and personal story, which we think human connection is what saves people from suicidal ideation. And I yes, we need all the resources that are out there. I'm not saying that we can replace the hotline or therapy. But we do believe that this is the best way to reach people in a struggle before they even get to suicidal ideation in order to connect with our community and Find the support they need to get through whatever adversity there is and keep them from going down that dark road. So visit our website donate, if you can join us for the book launch. So we hope you'll join us. And thank you, Michael, for being here. And we hope to see you soon.

Thank you