Oct. 3, 2023

Sell Without Selling Your Soul | RR226

Sell Without Selling Your Soul | RR226

Say goodbye to feeling inauthentic. Toss out the scripts that make you sound like you got stuck in the 1990s. Kick fear to the curb when asking for the sale. Liz Wendling shares with me how to create a more effective and non-salesy way to sell and generate more leads, clients and profit.

She is straightforward, practical and sassy! She even used one of my messages to show how I was not doing myself justice with my prospect – and showed me how to improve on it. Wasn’t expecting to be the example of the “wrong approach” – but took it like a trooper.

If you’re looking for inspiration that leads to action, Liz is your person. She knows how to transform professionals into wildly successful sales rock stars! Hang on to your hats!

You can reach Liz at:

Learn more about Liz: https://www.lizwendling.com/

Email her at: liz@lizwendling.com


In this episode you will learn:

  • How to avoid being salesy and pushy
  • Language's impact on sales
  • The significance of strategic and continuous follow-up
  • Follow up is a process, it's not an event
  • Framing your first message in Linkedin that will not sound salesy and generic
  • How to be authentic and real
  • How relevance and value hold more weight than traditional relationship-building alone in modern sales


A little about me:

I began my career as a teacher, was a corporate trainer for many years, and then found my niche training & supporting business owners, entrepreneurs & sales professionals to network at a world-class level. My passion is working with motivated people, who are coachable and who want to build their businesses through relationship marketing and networking (online & offline). I help my clients create retention strategies, grow through referrals, and create loyal customers by staying connected.


In appreciation for being here, I have a couple of gifts for you.

A LinkedIn Checklist for setting up your fully optimized Profile: https://www.janiceporter.com/linkedin-training.html

An opportunity to test drive the Follow Up system I recommend by sending a FREE greeting card (on me): www.sendacardeverytime.com


Connect with me:

http://JanicePorter.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/janiceporter/

https://www.facebook.com/JanicePorterBiz

https://twitter.com/janiceporter


Join our Relationships Rule community on FB here:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/relationshipsrule/


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Transcript
Janice Porter:

Hi, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode

Janice Porter:

of relationships rule. I'm very excited to have as a guest

Janice Porter:

today, Liz Wendling. Liz I met. Wow, I think through some

Janice Porter:

connection book we were in, or

Liz Wendling:

was it a book Summit? It was the summit Mary.

Liz Wendling:

Yeah, that's

Janice Porter:

right. Yes. And I make it a point of finding all

Janice Porter:

those keen people, key people that were part of the event or

Janice Porter:

the summit or the book or whatever, and connecting with

Janice Porter:

them. And when I came across the list, I found a goldmine. I was

Janice Porter:

so excited to meet Liz, and so glad that you're here. Liz,

Janice Porter:

welcome to the show.

Liz Wendling:

Thank you, Janice. Let's do it. Yes, absolutely.

Janice Porter:

So Liz, I just want to tell my audience a

Janice Porter:

little bit, because this is where we're going to dig right

Janice Porter:

in. Liz is a nationally recognized speaker, a sales

Janice Porter:

consultant and author of six books. Her two most recent are

Janice Porter:

the heart of authentic selling, and sell without selling your

Janice Porter:

soul. That one is specifically for women in business. And we'll

Janice Porter:

get into that in a little bit. Liz is driven by the mantra,

Janice Porter:

it's not what you sell. It's how you sell that matters. And I

Janice Porter:

love that because here we all are women, man doesn't matter.

Janice Porter:

We're entrepreneurs or business owners were even in a career

Janice Porter:

sales, you know it for corporations. Doesn't matter

Janice Porter:

what we do we have to sell. But that seems to be the most hated

Janice Porter:

thing that people want, you know, have to do. So sorry about

Janice Porter:

that. So tell me, Liz, how do you turn people around? Why is

Janice Porter:

that the most hated thing? What is it?

Liz Wendling:

Well, it's always because someone has a negative

Liz Wendling:

mindset around that no different than someone that says diets

Liz Wendling:

don't work, love, relationships don't work, all men suck all

Liz Wendling:

women suck. It's a mindset. And I most of the time, people will

Liz Wendling:

say to me, I love what I do. But I hate to sell, I love my work,

Liz Wendling:

but I hate to sell. And every time I hear someone say I love

Liz Wendling:

what I do, but I hate to sell I have them say I love what I do,

Liz Wendling:

but I hate to make money. I love what I do, but I hate money. I

Liz Wendling:

love working with clients, but I just hate money. And and it's

Liz Wendling:

not about going out there and selling people something they

Liz Wendling:

don't need your service or products. Product is an

Liz Wendling:

exchange, you're exchanging your expertise for money. That's how

Liz Wendling:

an orthopedic surgeon gets gets paid, right? And there is. So

Liz Wendling:

there's a point where women especially have to stop hiding

Liz Wendling:

behind the fact that they hate to do something they don't know

Liz Wendling:

how to do. And most of the time, they hate it because of what

Liz Wendling:

they think they have to do to get someone to buy from them. So

Liz Wendling:

they think they've got to push and be aggressive and make

Liz Wendling:

people do things they don't want to do when in fact that's not

Liz Wendling:

selling at all that's being a jerk. And so, when ever I hear

Liz Wendling:

women say I don't want to be salesy. I don't want to be self

Liz Wendling:

serving. And I don't want to be pushy, Janice. I'm hoping we

Liz Wendling:

dive into this today because every time a woman says I don't

Liz Wendling:

want to be self serving pushy, aggressive, they're actually

Liz Wendling:

showing up that way. They actually sound self serving

Liz Wendling:

aggressive salesy and pushy because of the language choices,

Liz Wendling:

they're making. The words they're putting in an email, the

Liz Wendling:

messages they're leaving in a voicemail actually makes them

Liz Wendling:

sound as salesy as it gets. So a lot of people will be surprised

Liz Wendling:

with some of the words and language language that people

Liz Wendling:

use that make them sound like an old school salesperson, the very

Liz Wendling:

thing they want to avoid is what they sound like,

Janice Porter:

sound like, wow, you know, I'm going to age

Janice Porter:

myself. But back, back in the day, I used to teach customer

Janice Porter:

service. And I taught a lot through the I was a trainer at

Janice Porter:

the local telephone company. And we'd sell big phone systems to

Janice Porter:

organizations and we would go out and train them on how to use

Janice Porter:

them. And then the soft skills. I take the receptionist and the

Janice Porter:

first point of contact in the different departments and I do

Janice Porter:

phone, conversation, you know, phone courtesy with them. And

Janice Porter:

back in those days, I used to hear all the time when I

Janice Porter:

listened to those people answered the phone, they would

Janice Porter:

say things like, and they were always women, nine, nine out of

Janice Porter:

10 times say things like I'm sorry, he's not here at the

Janice Porter:

moment. He's you know, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I missed you

Janice Porter:

or I sorry, I missed the call or they're always apologizing. Yes.

Janice Porter:

They were always making excuses. And that was I realized and

Janice Porter:

showed those people what they were doing is it was more about

Janice Porter:

again, their belief or lack of belief in their in themselves in

Janice Porter:

the power that they had to take action. He's out for lunch right

Janice Porter:

now. May I take a message not sorry, he's out for lunch. Okay,

Janice Porter:

can you help me that you know, right, right. Yeah. Have lots of

Janice Porter:

things. It's the same principle I feel. And think about with the

Janice Porter:

sales piece of languaging around sales, and not apologizing,

Janice Porter:

which women do all the time.

Liz Wendling:

He makes men do it too. And it isn't only I'm so

Liz Wendling:

sorry. Think of it this way. I know you're busy. So I won't

Liz Wendling:

take up too much of your time. I know you have a lot on your

Liz Wendling:

plate. So I'll get to the point. I know you have way more going

Liz Wendling:

on than I do. I'm just sitting here trying to make a living and

Liz Wendling:

you're busier than me. It isn't. Yes, it's about the words, but

Liz Wendling:

it's the energy and how it lands on someone. So when you say to

Liz Wendling:

someone, I know you're busy, I won't take up too much of your

Liz Wendling:

time. That isn't for the other person. That is typically for

Liz Wendling:

the person who's using it. You feel like you have to apologize

Liz Wendling:

for doing your job. You feel like you have to say I'm so

Liz Wendling:

sorry, I know you're busy. I'm not because of how you feel

Liz Wendling:

inside you.

Janice Porter:

That's your, your mindset and your lack of

Janice Porter:

confidence. Right?

Liz Wendling:

So when someone says I don't want to sound

Liz Wendling:

salesy or self serving, and they say something crappy like that,

Liz Wendling:

I know you're busy. And I won't take up too much of your time.

Liz Wendling:

The person who you just said that to is thinking, all right,

Liz Wendling:

well, you just took up too much of my time with that stupid

Liz Wendling:

saying stop and get to the point. So all this time when

Liz Wendling:

someone says I don't want to do this, what they don't realize is

Liz Wendling:

that it's like playing golf and you say I don't want to go in

Liz Wendling:

the sand trap. Well, your brain only hears go in the sand trap.

Liz Wendling:

So when you say I don't want to sound salesy, and you show up

Liz Wendling:

salesy anyway. So you're not doing yourself any favors

Liz Wendling:

declaring what you don't want to be, let's talk about who you do

Liz Wendling:

want to be and how you do want to show up.

Janice Porter:

Okay, so can you give me a perfect example of

Janice Porter:

turning that around and showing up the way you in today's world

Janice Porter:

the way you would do it?

Liz Wendling:

Well, I would first say Stop apologizing, stop

Liz Wendling:

minimizing yourself, stop putting yourself in a less than

Liz Wendling:

position by apologizing for you being a strong business person,

Liz Wendling:

stop making you look like you're less than everyone else, by

Liz Wendling:

showing up with the energy of I'm less than you, I'm just

Liz Wendling:

trying to get your attention. My time, your time is more valuable

Liz Wendling:

than mine. So I tell people leave it out. Why do you have to

Liz Wendling:

say I know you're busy, I won't take up your time are you I'm so

Liz Wendling:

sorry to bother you, sorry, to be a pest. We'll take that

Liz Wendling:

language out. It doesn't belong in that conversation and step

Liz Wendling:

into the power that you own versus giving away your power in

Liz Wendling:

the first sentence of a phone call. So it doesn't belong

Liz Wendling:

there. Get to the meat of the message. So I am, if you said

Liz Wendling:

something like, I know you're busy. So I won't take up too

Liz Wendling:

much of your time. What if in your head, you said it didn't

Liz Wendling:

come out of your mouth? What would be the next sentence? You

Liz Wendling:

start with the very next sentence. All right. So if you

Liz Wendling:

don't, if you want to get to the point, sorry, you're busy, I

Liz Wendling:

know you're busy. I'll get to the point, well then get the

Liz Wendling:

hair. So the whole idea is then get into the meat of your

Liz Wendling:

message. I can't tell someone what to say. Because I don't

Liz Wendling:

know what they're calling about. But when you call and say,

Liz Wendling:

Janice, I'm glad I caught you. Or oh, Janice, I'm so glad

Liz Wendling:

you're I got you live reason I'm calling is yes. Very right. I

Liz Wendling:

mean, take the not control. You don't want to be controlling,

Liz Wendling:

but you're taking charge of what you're doing. People are busy,

Liz Wendling:

they don't have five seconds to waste on lame language that puts

Liz Wendling:

you in a bad spot. Okay, add up and own it.

Janice Porter:

I think it's would you agree that it's that

Janice Porter:

it's fine to say hey, I'm glad you're there. Thanks for taking

Janice Porter:

my call, or thanks for picking up the phone. I always like that

Janice Porter:

today because nobody does. And those that do. I appreciate

Janice Porter:

that. That's so lovely. You know, I want to see now I could

Janice Porter:

stop myself right away, right? Or I'm calling about or want to

Janice Porter:

share with you or something like that. Just read into it that I

Janice Porter:

would assume would be okay. But and

Liz Wendling:

not to use three or four of them. Oh, I'm so glad

Liz Wendling:

you picked up the phone. It's so nice to talk to you. I'm so

Liz Wendling:

like, okay, just pick one and get to the point.

Janice Porter:

Got it. Okay, so language is really important.

Janice Porter:

And there are, I've heard you, in some of your videos talk

Janice Porter:

about that. So many of those trite phrases that we use, and

Janice Porter:

that are outdated. And I know one of your phrases is to say

Janice Porter:

when you change your language, you change your results. And

Janice Porter:

that's a good thing to keep in my head. So. So let's talk about

Janice Porter:

follow up because now follow up is the same thing. It's whether

Janice Porter:

you write the email or whether you pick up the phone and leave

Janice Porter:

a voice message, or however you do it. Do you have a rule of

Janice Porter:

thumb around how to do that effectively?

Liz Wendling:

Well, I tell people that follow up is not

Liz Wendling:

activity, it's a process you have to look at follow up as a

Liz Wendling:

process in your business. It isn't one activity. Oh, let me

Liz Wendling:

follow up with Jan. No, it's not that. So what I first of all, I

Liz Wendling:

call it the F word because it is you might know that's done you

Liz Wendling:

want to type out I'm just following up treat it as if you

Liz Wendling:

use the real F word. But it isn't only follow up. It's

Liz Wendling:

following up touching base reaching out checking in. We're

Liz Wendling:

talking about 40 years ago, we've been using that same

Liz Wendling:

phrase. And sometimes will say Just following up just touching

Liz Wendling:

base just wanted to try you one more time. Thought I would

Liz Wendling:

follow up but I haven't heard from you. I sent you 17 other

Liz Wendling:

messages. So I always tell people, first of all, strip out

Liz Wendling:

those words strip out following up touching base reaching out

Liz Wendling:

and checking and they don't belong in our conversations.

Liz Wendling:

First of all, you're already doing the act of follow up. Why

Liz Wendling:

do you have to announce I'm going to take an inhale Now

Liz Wendling:

Janet, at Janice. And now I'm going to exhale, Janice, what

Liz Wendling:

you don't have to announce what you're doing. You're breathing?

Liz Wendling:

Just do it. You're following up, just do it. So it's stripping

Liz Wendling:

that out? And understanding that follow up is a continuation of

Liz Wendling:

what you've already started. Right? Isn't that what the what

Liz Wendling:

it really is. And if people are not getting back to you, it has

Liz Wendling:

nothing to do with your message you can send 15 Follow up

Liz Wendling:

messages. If people are avoiding you. What that tells me is that

Liz Wendling:

you missed the mark in your sales conversation, it means

Liz Wendling:

someone doesn't feel connected and confident to get back to

Liz Wendling:

you. You've you did something in the conversation that caused

Liz Wendling:

them to completely disconnect from you and avoid all your

Liz Wendling:

communication. So good. Yeah, I thought

Janice Porter:

I did have a thought because I'm in a process

Janice Porter:

right now with somebody who I had a an initial sales call, I

Janice Porter:

guess. Okay. Yeah. And they they asked lots of questions. They

Janice Porter:

were looking at, you know, different ways that they could

Janice Porter:

do this for LinkedIn training. And it's a strange time right

Janice Porter:

now with July, August, they're in a, I don't want to say who's

Janice Porter:

busy what business it was. I was just looking at on their

Janice Porter:

LinkedIn profile their their posts, and they've been busy and

Janice Porter:

whatever, because I haven't heard back from her. Okay. And I

Janice Porter:

thought maybe I'll just send a quick message by LinkedIn. And I

Janice Porter:

don't even know what now what I said. But I would be curious to

Janice Porter:

know, let's do it. Because maybe I was thinking this, okay. Let's

Janice Porter:

see if I did. I said, I hope you had a great July 4 celebration,

Janice Porter:

and that you've survived the crazy weather happening in the

Janice Porter:

Northeast. And here it is, I thought I'd check back with you

Janice Porter:

to see if you're still thinking of doing some LinkedIn training

Janice Porter:

or if you have any questions for me.

Liz Wendling:

Okay, that was in. Okay. All right. All right, a

Liz Wendling:

couple of let's just be transparent, because if I'm

Liz Wendling:

honest with you, someone will learn from it that's full of a

Liz Wendling:

couple of fails inside of that. So okay, I am in unless you

Liz Wendling:

really know someone, first of all, if you and I know each

Liz Wendling:

other now, a couple of weeks. Yeah. I still wouldn't even put

Liz Wendling:

in an email. Hey, Janice. I hope you had a great Fourth of July

Liz Wendling:

weekend. I wouldn't start there. I would end there. That's so

Liz Wendling:

funny,

Janice Porter:

cuz I had it the other way around. And then I

Janice Porter:

changed it today.

Liz Wendling:

Because when you say to someone, hey, I hope

Liz Wendling:

you're doing well. Hope. I hope you had a great weekend. I hope

Liz Wendling:

all as well, I hope this email finds you. Well. The recipient

Liz Wendling:

is thinking No, you freaking don't. You are. Do I really

Liz Wendling:

think you sat there and thought, Oh, I hope Liz had a really

Liz Wendling:

wonderful weekend. No, nobody believes that anymore. So I'm

Liz Wendling:

not suggesting you not be nice, Janice. I'm suggesting there's

Liz Wendling:

there's a way to re engineer an email these days. So I would put

Liz Wendling:

that at the end PS I hope you survived. I saw the crazy

Liz Wendling:

weather in the northeast, something like that. But But

Liz Wendling:

here's where i where i i try to dig in first is how did you end

Liz Wendling:

that meeting with this particular person? How what was

Liz Wendling:

the last communication you had with? Let's call her Mary Smith.

Liz Wendling:

Would you say to Mary at the end of that,

Janice Porter:

I was weird because usually what I do is I

Janice Porter:

try to book a follow up call with them. Because I felt like

Janice Porter:

she was definitely in control. And she was saying I'm going to

Janice Porter:

review all of this over the next while I do have a project and

Janice Porter:

doing she said but I'm going to review it and I will get back to

Janice Porter:

you. You know, the kiss of death. I'll get back to you but

Janice Porter:

that but I didn't think it was over. Okay. And so that's how it

Janice Porter:

ended.

Liz Wendling:

How do you typically end up? Do you

Liz Wendling:

typically try to get a meeting booked?

Janice Porter:

Yeah, I typically will say, I don't know what,

Janice Porter:

what, why I didn't do that, in this particular instance. She

Janice Porter:

wasn't a typical type of client for me. And so there could have

Janice Porter:

been something there from my side, internally. But, um, but I

Janice Porter:

normally will say something like, you know, absolutely,

Janice Porter:

would it be okay, if we set a time on our calendar, we get so

Janice Porter:

busy, and I'll just, we'll just do a quick follow up call either

Janice Porter:

way, doesn't matter, like something to take the pressure

Janice Porter:

off, but to book the call,

Liz Wendling:

okay. But all the language you just used when you

Liz Wendling:

when you listen to this recording everything you said,

Liz Wendling:

you gave away your power? Would it be okay? Could we get

Liz Wendling:

something on there just to check in just to make sure you stay

Janice Porter:

connected clients.

Liz Wendling:

So this is the kind of stuff Janice and I

Liz Wendling:

appreciate you being a model and showing that I know you and I

Liz Wendling:

know you're a kind lady, and I know you're only trying to keep

Liz Wendling:

that momentum going. But here's where that language, we take all

Liz Wendling:

the air out of the tires, and then we think the car is going

Liz Wendling:

to go somewhere. Okay, frame it for me. So it sounded like when

Liz Wendling:

you were describing this person, she was asking all of the

Liz Wendling:

questions versus you. Okay, so let, she might have just been

Liz Wendling:

one of those people that had no interest in doing business with

Liz Wendling:

you. Someone who's interested answers questions, because

Liz Wendling:

you're the driver, the you're the person.

Janice Porter:

He did ask what? Oh, okay. All right. It was a

Janice Porter:

back and forth. And she had her social media guy on the call.

Liz Wendling:

All right, yeah. So then I personally would have

Liz Wendling:

handled it a little differently. And it's what I teach my clients

Liz Wendling:

is at the end of the meeting, asking to book a next meeting is

Liz Wendling:

a little, there's a little pressure in that. That's making

Liz Wendling:

me behave on your timeline. Versus you behaving on mine, the

Liz Wendling:

buyer? Yeah. So when so? To me, it sounds that languaging is a

Liz Wendling:

little outdated. Everybody will say, Oh, you got to book that

Liz Wendling:

next meeting. Don't leave one call without the next one. All

Liz Wendling:

right, if it was still 9995, I'd say all right, that's perfect.

Liz Wendling:

We're not anymore. Okay. So it is. So remember, follow up is a

Liz Wendling:

process. It's not an event, you treat it like an event. So I

Liz Wendling:

would say, if let's I'm going to channel that woman that you are

Liz Wendling:

on the phone with, I might say, Janice, I appreciate your

Liz Wendling:

honesty, and you're going to review everything. And it's you

Liz Wendling:

know, it's nice to know you're looking at some options, and I

Liz Wendling:

appreciate your communication. How would you like us to stay in

Liz Wendling:

communication now? This is you on the phone or a zoom call with

Liz Wendling:

someone collaborating around follow up, not you saying, hey,

Liz Wendling:

I want to get you on my calendar, so I can try to sell

Liz Wendling:

you a little more. And I know that's not what you said. But

Liz Wendling:

that's what they heard.

Janice Porter:

Yes, yes. I love that. Okay, Mike has to move

Janice Porter:

forward.

Liz Wendling:

So if I said to you, hey, Janice, I know you're

Liz Wendling:

gonna get crazy. I'm gonna get crazy. We're in that July August

Liz Wendling:

timeframe where people are on vacation. What what do you want

Liz Wendling:

us to do next? What's the next step? Let me tell you versus you

Liz Wendling:

telling me, the buyer is I don't want you to completely give up

Liz Wendling:

the control to the buyer. But I want you to be collaborative. I

Liz Wendling:

want everyone to think that this is a we situation, not me trying

Liz Wendling:

to tell you what, here's what I want. I want to talk. Yeah,

Liz Wendling:

that's awesome. And you will, and when the language does get

Liz Wendling:

changed. So when I say change your language, change your

Liz Wendling:

results. It is amazing when I get in there, and I work with

Liz Wendling:

someone and we shift all the language and then they'll say to

Liz Wendling:

me, holy crap, plus, I sent one, one message and that person got

Liz Wendling:

right back to me. Or it only took two tries to get ahold of

Liz Wendling:

this person. Or I've emailed this person 10 times and they're

Liz Wendling:

not responding. And then I give them some language to kind of

Liz Wendling:

kick up the dust again. And they're like, Oh, my God, that

Liz Wendling:

person got right back to me. But you sound like everyone else

Liz Wendling:

inside their inbox. Everyone else sounds a lot like the

Liz Wendling:

message you left. Everyone says, just checking in following up

Liz Wendling:

touching base. You're ready to get started. I know we talked

Liz Wendling:

about that. It isn't enough to get people to keep the momentum

Liz Wendling:

going.

Janice Porter:

Can I can I save her? Can I salvage this? If she

Janice Porter:

doesn't answer me?

Liz Wendling:

Yeah, you might be able to go back and say to her,

Liz Wendling:

said there was no problem in that email, meaning you didn't

Liz Wendling:

say to her, you and I talked about the potential of XY and Z.

Liz Wendling:

You mentioned you were struggling with this or wanted

Liz Wendling:

some help around that. I don't know if that's still a priority

Liz Wendling:

or still on your radar. But it lets either to keep the momentum

Liz Wendling:

going or figure out what the next step looks like if there is

Liz Wendling:

a next step. So there's a lot more, there's just more ways to

Liz Wendling:

engage someone than your basic boring, bland, vanilla generic

Liz Wendling:

and outdated, same old, lame old language of just following up.

Janice Porter:

Perfect. I fell right into your trap. And it's

Janice Porter:

perfect.

Liz Wendling:

Thank you. Thank you for showing everybody that

Liz Wendling:

this is not intuitive. This is not this is why people call me

Liz Wendling:

and say I need a makeover. I need your sales clinic, I need

Liz Wendling:

to be in your messaging makeover. And once you do it and

Liz Wendling:

fix it, you never need me again. That's the best part. You

Janice Porter:

gonna say? So tell me tell me how you feel

Janice Porter:

about Do you ever do LinkedIn messaging for working messages

Janice Porter:

on LinkedIn? That kind of thing? Like a

Liz Wendling:

prospecting message? Yes, absolutely. All

Liz Wendling:

the time? Yes.

Janice Porter:

Okay. So, obviously, none of us want to be

Janice Porter:

pitched. So we don't want the first message to be a pitch,

Janice Porter:

right? And it happens all the time. And it happens all the

Janice Porter:

time, then we've got some people who, okay, it's, it's the the

Janice Porter:

complete opposite, where it's just that that generic, you

Janice Porter:

know, let's book you know, nice to meet you. Let's book a call

Janice Porter:

and see how we can help each other on LinkedIn or whatever.

Janice Porter:

It was expanding my LinkedIn thing, and you know, you came up

Janice Porter:

and and then I, so do you ever do something like this, and I

Janice Porter:

haven't done this, but I want to just test the waters with this.

Janice Porter:

So where you've done a search, you found a group of people that

Janice Porter:

you would like to try and connect with in terms of their,

Janice Porter:

their job function, or their, their business or their

Janice Porter:

location, whatever the filters are, that you want, and you

Janice Porter:

found a group of people. Now you start on your outreach, I always

Janice Porter:

check. Because I teach LinkedIn, I taught I teach people to look

Janice Porter:

at that person's profile to see number one, if they're active.

Janice Porter:

Number two, if it feels like it might be a fit, and you want to

Janice Porter:

pursue it. So now the first message goes out. So would you

Janice Porter:

ever do something like this? Let's say my, my, my audience

Janice Porter:

are all business consultants. Okay, there. Yeah, so let's say

Janice Porter:

I've created a an ebook around how business consultants can use

Janice Porter:

LinkedIn with my tips or something like that. So my first

Janice Porter:

message now, I would say you have to connect first.

Liz Wendling:

Let's assume you're connected. So

Janice Porter:

in some format, some form of saying, you know,

Janice Porter:

would you be interested in in my top 10 tips for using LinkedIn

Janice Porter:

as a business or growing your business on LinkedIn as a

Janice Porter:

business consultant? If so, just say, yes, I'd be happy to send

Janice Porter:

it to you, something like that. Does that seem pitchy? A little

Janice Porter:

bit

Liz Wendling:

the term would you be interested,

Janice Porter:

you know, like that. Right?

Liz Wendling:

That is that screams. salesy. Yeah. Would you

Liz Wendling:

be interested if I could show you a way to save money on your

Liz Wendling:

car insurance? So without getting into a full blown

Liz Wendling:

training here, that's, that is a way to get in and asking them to

Liz Wendling:

reply back is better than just dropping it in there. And

Janice Porter:

I'm looking for a way to to qualify people, right?

Janice Porter:

They obviously say, yes, they're interested. They're more

Janice Porter:

interested in that, you know, that at least you can send it to

Janice Porter:

them. And, but I'm just wondering if that approach is

Janice Porter:

still salesy. So instead of would you be interested? How

Janice Porter:

would you frame it?

Liz Wendling:

Well, it would be a whole rewrite of that email,

Liz Wendling:

because, first of all, why them? What's inside these 10 tips that

Liz Wendling:

I couldn't go google or Go to chat? GPT what is it in your

Liz Wendling:

stuff that's unique or different or insightful? So there's,

Liz Wendling:

there's has to be more meat on the bones is the only way that I

Liz Wendling:

can describe it.

Janice Porter:

And yet the reason I'm asking this is

Janice Porter:

because I was listening to someone talking about this the

Janice Porter:

other day on a podcast. One of the things that this person was

Janice Porter:

saying is that he had a really good first email that he had

Janice Porter:

used for yours and similar to that, but longer so it had a bit

Janice Porter:

more meat in it. But it wasn't getting a response today and

Janice Porter:

that's why he changed it to one sentence type of deal. It is

Janice Porter:

working. So that kind of brings me to the question of like,

Janice Porter:

what's different today with with the audience then it was you

Janice Porter:

know, because you keep saying those are outdated, these things

Janice Porter:

are outdated. So what, how, what's different today about the

Janice Porter:

audience and more sophisticated or they

Liz Wendling:

are within their She's so much more skeptical.

Liz Wendling:

their inboxes are bloated, and they're filled with pitches.

Liz Wendling:

They're filled with messages that sound like, Hey, I hope you

Liz Wendling:

had a good weekend. Yeah, it looks like you're a busy

Liz Wendling:

consultant or Oh, you like the color blue soda? Why isn't that

Liz Wendling:

crazy. And then they pitch someone. So there if your

Liz Wendling:

message isn't written, here's the key, written to me, not at

Liz Wendling:

me write a message to me, not at me make it feel like Janice sat

Liz Wendling:

down and wrote it to me, a message that feels like it's

Liz Wendling:

landing in my inbox with intention, not generic, see,

Liz Wendling:

generic just doesn't do it any more. Because of how bloated my

Liz Wendling:

inbox, I could spot an email, that is a sales pitch. Sometimes

Liz Wendling:

even before I log on to LinkedIn, I could feel it coming

Liz Wendling:

through my computer. And too many people don't want to put

Liz Wendling:

the time in and the energy and the thought in and what word

Liz Wendling:

choices feel good to me. Who am I as a business owner? And how

Liz Wendling:

do I want to show up? What do I want to convey? How what

Liz Wendling:

intention do I want to start with, so that my very first

Liz Wendling:

interaction with someone actually starts to build

Liz Wendling:

momentum. So, and I hear this a lot, Oh, I heard on a podcast or

Liz Wendling:

one trainer told me this, or oh, I downloaded a template and it

Liz Wendling:

worked. Somebody made $8 million dollars in five minutes on this

Liz Wendling:

thing. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it works.

Liz Wendling:

It just means it's popular. Okay, just because everybody's

Liz Wendling:

doing it doesn't mean it works. And just because it worked for

Liz Wendling:

one person might not work for you. So this is why people are

Liz Wendling:

spinning their wheels. This is why so many people are hitting

Liz Wendling:

brick walls, whether it's on LinkedIn, or email or any part

Liz Wendling:

of their business, because they're looking for a tactic.

Liz Wendling:

They're looking for that pie in the sky, that one little nugget,

Liz Wendling:

that hack that they could use, versus stepping back far enough

Liz Wendling:

and saying, wait a second, if I'm going to do the work, I'm

Liz Wendling:

going to type out 456 emails to someone. Why don't I first

Liz Wendling:

figure out what I want to convey? What's the intention?

Liz Wendling:

How do I want to keep the momentum going with them? How do

Liz Wendling:

I even send an email that? And I would never suggest anybody say

Liz Wendling:

this, but just to get the meat here is? How do I stop

Liz Wendling:

connecting with someone? If there's nothing there? How do I

Liz Wendling:

let them know that I'm done? I'm pausing our outreach? How do you

Liz Wendling:

talk to someone the way they like to be talked to, versus

Liz Wendling:

sounding like, I'm not trying to sell you anything, when every

Liz Wendling:

word you use makes it sounds like you are. So the

Janice Porter:

in order to be authentic. And to be real, I

Janice Porter:

think involves really two sides to that coin. One is that you

Janice Porter:

the person writing it sending the message has to come from the

Janice Porter:

heart, they have to be real. The only way I find that I can be

Janice Porter:

real with someone I don't know, is by paying attention to like

Janice Porter:

what's on their profile or, or what I've learned about that

Janice Porter:

person before I reach out so that if I can include something

Janice Porter:

in my message that shows that I paid attention. Would that be

Janice Porter:

like 10 times better? Or is it still not still?

Liz Wendling:

Make Janice Think about how many people say, Oh, I

Liz Wendling:

popped on your LinkedIn profile? It looks like again, you were

Liz Wendling:

you written two books, or oh, it looks like we went on the scene

Liz Wendling:

on knowledge. Yeah, okay. That isn't enough anymore. In fact, I

Liz Wendling:

would rather someone leave that out, then use it. Because it

Liz Wendling:

brings me back from eight years ago, it brings me back to the

Liz Wendling:

LinkedIn training that says, find something on their profile,

Liz Wendling:

and mention it. Like that's going to open me up and fillet

Liz Wendling:

me like a fish. And now I'm going to be the favorite person,

Liz Wendling:

your favorite person in the world. It's not enough people,

Liz Wendling:

our whole art. They're on guard. So when you say something like,

Liz Wendling:

oh, I What a great article you wrote last week. All right.

Liz Wendling:

Okay, but that doesn't make me want to know you and if any more

Liz Wendling:

than I do. So

Janice Porter:

this really because there's people that will

Janice Porter:

respond and say, basically, they'll respond and say, so I'm

Janice Porter:

very busy. Basically, what? I can help you with that, right?

Janice Porter:

And so

Liz Wendling:

those aren't my people. Not only is it not your

Liz Wendling:

people, it tells you you missed the target. Yeah, target

Liz Wendling:

completely. So I appreciate people who do the work, who are

Liz Wendling:

getting on LinkedIn, who are sending outreach who are doing

Liz Wendling:

podcasts who are doing so much of the good meaty stuff in their

Liz Wendling:

business. But I feel bad when they don't take the time to

Liz Wendling:

close the loop. So they're doing all of the good stuff and they

Liz Wendling:

forget that say Sales is a process sales is a conversation.

Liz Wendling:

Sales is a service piece, following up as a is not an

Liz Wendling:

event, it's a process. And how do you button up all your hard

Liz Wendling:

work in the beginning to ensure that somebody even wants to

Liz Wendling:

communicate with you, and then maybe eventually hop on the

Liz Wendling:

phone with you, and then maybe eventually say, hey, Janice,

Liz Wendling:

tell me about your LinkedIn program. And so it's it's

Liz Wendling:

building that momentum. And I know people will say it's all

Liz Wendling:

about relationships, it's all about know, like, and trust, and

Liz Wendling:

I call BS on both. Here's why. It I know a lot of people, I

Liz Wendling:

like a lot of people, and I trust a lot of people. But that

Liz Wendling:

doesn't mean you get a penny of my money. Know, like, and trust

Liz Wendling:

only gets you a ticket to the game. Relevance. And value is

Liz Wendling:

where I'm going to start communicating with you if what

Liz Wendling:

you tell me is relevant to my world, and really will help me

Liz Wendling:

in my business, and there's value in that. I'll give you a

Liz Wendling:

sliver of my time. Other than that, you're getting deleted.

Liz Wendling:

That's it. So it's taking the time, all that time, all that

Liz Wendling:

energy and money, people invest on programs that do fill up a

Liz Wendling:

pipeline, but then will not invest in the piece that I

Liz Wendling:

teach, which is the right language and the right

Liz Wendling:

messaging. So it feels like you are in the in the process with

Liz Wendling:

them not trying to sell them something. And it's hard to

Liz Wendling:

watch Janice it really is it's, it's like you watch people in

Liz Wendling:

the gym, they just ran 20 miles on the treadmill. But then you

Liz Wendling:

go see them and they're at the drive thru at McDonald's eating

Liz Wendling:

for Big Macs, you know, that it's something is wrong with

Liz Wendling:

their workout. They'll say I'm not, I'm not losing any weight.

Liz Wendling:

I don't understand. Well, I just saw you at the drive thru. Same

Liz Wendling:

thing with my clients. They'll say, Listen, I'm doing this, I'm

Liz Wendling:

doing that I have all this in place. And then I asked them my

Liz Wendling:

top 10 favorite questions, and then we figure out oh, you're

Liz Wendling:

going to the drive thru at McDonald's now again. So then,

Liz Wendling:

and only then are they willing to close the loop, finish that

Liz Wendling:

last portion, so that everything they do has has value and

Liz Wendling:

meaning and starts to make money, move the momentum?

Janice Porter:

So are you then saying though, that it is about

Janice Porter:

building relationships first or not? No, you're saying not see,

Janice Porter:

relationships? You're challenging everything I am,

Liz Wendling:

I am counter to everything. Because for 50

Liz Wendling:

years, we heard it's all about relationships. Everything's

Liz Wendling:

about a relationship.

Janice Porter:

It was more it was more transactional back

Janice Porter:

then.

Liz Wendling:

Right? But when I hear it's all about

Liz Wendling:

relationships, don't sell, just serve. All those little mantras

Liz Wendling:

mean nothing anymore. People are busy. They they, I don't need a

Liz Wendling:

relationship with everybody I do business with, right. I mean, I

Liz Wendling:

have my kitchen and bathrooms done right? totally remodeled. I

Liz Wendling:

don't need a relationship with the guy who did it all I don't,

Liz Wendling:

I just need you to show me that you're the right person for the

Liz Wendling:

job. And that when someone asked me who did my kitchen and

Liz Wendling:

bathrooms, your name comes up. I haven't talked to the guy in

Liz Wendling:

three years. But we have a working relationship, but not

Liz Wendling:

yet we would people think is Oh, you have to build relationships.

Liz Wendling:

I'm not saying they're not important. Where the

Liz Wendling:

relationship becomes important is when you agree to do business

Liz Wendling:

together. And you treat each other like the human beings we

Liz Wendling:

have the capacity to do. And that's where the relationship

Liz Wendling:

gets solidified. I might know you like and trust you to get

Liz Wendling:

you to talk to you. But I'm going to need some relevance and

Liz Wendling:

some value. That's where the relationship really gets

Liz Wendling:

enhanced. So the pieces on the chessboard have moved. So

Liz Wendling:

anytime you want to throw out a mantra that says it's all about

Liz Wendling:

this, or oh sales are about listening, you know what course

Liz Wendling:

it is? But is that all? It is? No, it's the whole package. So

Liz Wendling:

it's having me the ability to step far enough back and say,

Liz Wendling:

Where do I plug the holes in a new world? That's so different?

Liz Wendling:

And it's plugging those holes. And I bet you have a decade if

Liz Wendling:

you plug the holes, you probably have a decade of runway to

Liz Wendling:

continue to use those. That process.

Janice Porter:

Hmm, interesting. Okay, so the two most recent

Janice Porter:

books that you've written, which I mentioned earlier, the heart

Janice Porter:

of authentic selling, sell without selling your soul, which

Janice Porter:

one's going to help me the most?

Liz Wendling:

Well, I because you're a woman, I would say go

Liz Wendling:

to sell without selling your soul because it does go into a

Liz Wendling:

lot of what we talked about today. And even the heart of

Liz Wendling:

authentic selling, it really comes down to being a good human

Liz Wendling:

being is really what it comes down to. Now in both of those

Liz Wendling:

books, there's examples there's ways to build value. There's

Liz Wendling:

ways to show people that I'm not here just for the sale, and

Liz Wendling:

actually mean it and it's felt it's not just you saying I'm

Liz Wendling:

authentic. It's being it's so much that somebody else is the

Liz Wendling:

one who says you're so authentic. Yes, it's having

Liz Wendling:

being such a good human being and so good at asking questions

Liz Wendling:

and helping people see the value in your offering. That's when

Liz Wendling:

they say, Janice, how do we get started? Not. Thank you for your

Liz Wendling:

thank you for your information. I'll get back to you.

Janice Porter:

Yes, I know there recently somebody said to me on

Janice Porter:

a first call. Wow, you've given me such value already. Yes. You

Janice Porter:

know, is now the opening, you know, and I loved that. And so

Janice Porter:

it's paying attention to those kinds of things that work, I

Janice Porter:

think, yes. Well, I have to say, Liz, you, you challenged me in

Janice Porter:

more ways than one today, I'm glad that I was able to be the

Janice Porter:

guinea pig in a way because I'm always open to learning. And I

Janice Porter:

know, for me, I didn't come up through sales, even though I

Janice Porter:

know we're always selling. I was a teacher. And so I was a school

Janice Porter:

teacher than I was a corporate trainer. I never had to sell

Janice Porter:

anything. All I had to do was go out and show them how to use it.

Janice Porter:

Right. Right. So I everything I've learned is self taught and

Janice Porter:

and there's always room for improvement. So thank you, thank

Janice Porter:

you for sharing your viewpoint and your expertise with us.

Liz Wendling:

You're welcome. And thanks for being coachable

Liz Wendling:

live for everybody to say. Yeah,

Janice Porter:

absolutely. And I would like to just end with with

Janice Porter:

one question for you to just leave for my audience is, what

Janice Porter:

would your top tip for sales be for being the best salesperson

Janice Porter:

you can be? What would be the best thing that you could leave

Janice Porter:

with my audience?

Liz Wendling:

Oh, gosh, I guess I'm gonna stay up there with the

Liz Wendling:

topic that we're on is watch your language. Watch what comes

Liz Wendling:

out of your mouth. Watch what you tell yourself, and then what

Liz Wendling:

leaves your lips. If you say to yourself, oh, I don't want to be

Liz Wendling:

salesy, but then you look at your language and you are

Liz Wendling:

salesy. That's a sign right there that you're not congruent

Liz Wendling:

in your language and who you're being and how you're showing up.

Liz Wendling:

And if you don't think your potential clients notice, you're

Liz Wendling:

lying to yourself, they feel it. And when they don't respond to

Liz Wendling:

you, they don't call you back. They don't hire you. They keep

Liz Wendling:

saying, Oh, not yet. It's a sign that something isn't lined up

Liz Wendling:

inter externally and internally. And once you get those, like a

Liz Wendling:

piece of velcro stuck together your internal and external way

Liz Wendling:

of being, it's going to be a little challenging in a world

Liz Wendling:

that's getting more and more challenging to sell every single

Liz Wendling:

day.

Janice Porter:

Thank you. Thank you for that. Thank you, Janice.

Janice Porter:

And thank you to my audience as usual for being here and

Janice Porter:

listening. If you liked what you heard, please leave a review and

Janice Porter:

let us know. And remember to stay connected and be remembered