E 274: The Hidden Link Between Emotional Trauma and Chronic Pain: Guest - Eileen Kopsaftis

Well, hello everybody and welcome back to another episode of Adult Child of Dysfunction.

Today we have with us someone who is going to shed some serious light on an issue that so many of us have today.

We have here Ellen Cupsaftis.

She is the founder of have have lifelong well being and co founder of Cameo Ministries which served women who have experienced abuse of any kind through the Choose Freedom support group for the past 26 years.

She is a chronic pain expert, nutrition educator and best selling author on a mission to erase pain from the world.

Welcome Eileen, how are you?

I am very well, thank you.

I'm excited to be here and I hope you're well too.

Oh yes, sounds good.

Yeah, absolutely.

And it's saying my Internet connection is unstable, so that's not very good sign.

But hopefully it'll hold out for us and we'll be able to have this chat.

That's a bold statement and a really big mission to erase pain from the world.

I need a really big eraser.

Yes.

Yeah, absolutely.

And it's funny because I'm kind of on your.

I saw something that you did a couple years ago, actually I watched this morning and I kept thinking, yeah, yeah, that's my, that's my game.

That's my jam.

That's what I'm trying to tell people.

This theory of I turn 40 and I start to ache or this happens and that happens and I go on this medicine, I go on this medicine because I'm 40 blows my mind.

I actually was at my primary care on Tuesday and he said, I have over 300 patients and of my 300 patients under 60, there is only 21 that are not on medicines or have some chronic illness.

And he said, congratulations, you're one of the 21.

And I said, it's just insane.

And, and I work, I mean, I work at a restaurant, I work, I walk 15,000 steps a day.

And I, I don't want to ever be that person that says, well, I'm just old.

That's why it hurts.

That's, you know.

So talk about how you got into this big mission of yours.

Yes.

So.

Well, you know, as a child I just had this thing about wanting to get people out of pain, whether it's physical, whether it's emotional, whether it's just.

I just, I kind of want to hug everybody and just tell them it's going to be okay.

And you know, I do have a history.

My childhood was, was less than stellar.

There was a lot of violence, there was alcohol abuse, there was, there was a lot of stuff that went on drug abuse, that kind of thing.

So, so, you know, there's a reason I lead that support group because I do have that history.

However, I've been able to become completely free of all of that, to completely let go of anything that's ever happened to me.

So much so that I'm at the point where I can literally tell women in the support group when we're sitting there.

Then I'm actually thankful for everything that happened to me because it is why I am who I am.

And I kind of joke and say, you know, if I had some perfect life, I'd be some, I don't know, empty headed little twit that wouldn't be able to relate to anybody.

Not that I'm saying people who haven't experienced abuse are empty headed twists.

I hope that didn't come out wrong.

No, it didn't, but, but I can relate and you know, I know how they feel.

I've felt the same way, but I found a way out of it.

So I, I think that's important because.

So I've always been very empathetic and I think empathy is different than sympathy.

I think sympathy doesn't serve anybody, you know, but empathy, putting yourself in their shoes, understanding how they feel, that's different than feeling sorry for people.

And so I've just always been this way.

It's kind of like in my DNA, it's my raison d'.

Etre and I took three years of French, but I'm not real good at that one.

And so I just, yeah, it's who God made me.

And so I just love helping people.

I would do it for free if I didn't want to live out of my car.

And I do have a lot of free stuff out there.

And I know you're going to share links and things, but I've got tons of free stuff out there.

I never want resources or limited resources to stop someone from getting the help that they need.

And fortunately there's enough people who can pay me so that I can help those who can't.

So it all works out.

It all works out.

So when I was really little, I wanted to be a doctor.

Then when I got older, I realized I really wasn't in love with the medical model.

I didn't really want to just have people medically manipulate those blood biomarkers.

In other words, let's just not medically address issues in the body going after the cause of the problem, like an antihypertensive, a blood pressure medication is not addressing why the blood pressure is high.

It's just manipulating the circulation to lower the pressure.

But the reason the blood pressure is high is still there and those people are still having events.

And I'm not saying this to.

I.

Are not eliminating people having heart attacks and strokes and dying.

You know, people are dying with great blood work.

Their doctor tells them, you know, you look great, keep doing what you're doing, but everything is medication manipulated.

And within six months, a lot of people who've been told they were great end up having an event and they're not with us anymore.

So it's this false sense, sense of security.

To get people to know the truth and to dispel those myths and to help them to do the things that really do work, that really do benefit them.

And, and you know, chronic pain, that, that's, that's a big one.

And we've got all of this evidence based medicine that everybody wants to focus on now.

I'm not against having evidence behind what you're doing.

The problem is there are certain subjects that, that doesn't really work.

Right.

Because when it comes to pain, every single person is unique as a fingerprint.

There are times I joke and say, you know, we're all a bunch of snowflakes because we're all so different and unique.

And so what works for one person isn't going to work for another person.

I can have three people walk into the clinic with the same diagnosis, the same, the same symptoms, and require completely different plans of care to resolve their pain.

Absolutely.

And, and going back to what you were saying about the just medicating and just medicating, what people don't understand is I refuse.

Like, I'm no, like, no, I had an event last January.

I had a stroke.

Did I use medicine to bust the clot in my brain so that I wasn't paralyzed on my left side?

Absolutely.

But then it's like, okay, let's, I mean, that's crisis.

That was a do or die and let's fix this right now.

But then when they handed me that stack of five prescriptions or 10 prescriptions and I was like, no, let's figure out why I don't have high blood pressure.

My, you know, they wanted a blood pressure medicine.

My blood pressure was, is this morning when I took it 130 over 65.

Why would you want to put me on a blood pressure medicine to lower my blood pressure in case in another 57 years I have another stroke.

Like that makes.

Well, they've also changed the parameters, Tammy.

So 130 is actually considered hypertensive now, so.

Which is they put a whole bunch of people on meds now because they're over that 120 limit, you know, which.

Is insane to me for a 57 year old, you know, like a little chunky, but a little, a little squishy.

But anyway.

But yeah, no, I get your point.

It's like.

And what people don't understand is one medicine alters every single system in your body.

Yeah.

So then it's like I do an AO biofrequency scan and the people that come to me that are on like nine different medicines, I'm like, I don't know how accurate this is going to be because it's not your body system.

It's.

It's like you said, completely manipulated.

Yes.

So I love what you do.

I love the concept.

I'm so happy that there are more people getting into it now and they're actually believing it.

And there's science to the fact that, that, you know, you can come to me and say, hey, Tammy, I know you sell doterra.

Can I have some tea tree?

My hair is falling out.

And I'm like, back up.

Let's find out why your hair is falling out.

Yes, yes, let's look at the cause.

That's why I wrote my book Pain Culprits.

Because so many people, when they have chronic pain issues, they keep beating up the body part that's in pain.

But the body part that's in pain is rarely the culprit, it's usually the victim.

And so, you know, when I wrote that book, I want people to understand the connection, how everything's connected to everything else.

And hopefully we'll have the chance to touch on the whole emotional history of trauma, you know.

Yes, we will.

I'll be quiet, but, but to just talk, you know, general physiology of the human body.

So many people don't understand how everything's connected.

And if you go to seek help and whoever you seek, whether it's, you know, and I am a physical therapist and they're going to see you as a knee that walks through the door, they're going to be really limited at how much they can help you.

Because the knee is a simple hinge joint.

It does have some other components to it, a little lateral, but for the most part it's like a door.

It's on a hinge and it only bends one way and it's counting on the hip above and the ankle below to function correctly so that it's not getting trashed whenever you use It.

So you can beat up that knee to the cows, come home, you can exercise it, stretch it, heat it, I sit, inject it, surgically manipulate it.

But if the reason is because the ankle is not functioning right, with every step you take, that knee is going to get punched in the nose.

And so until you address the ankle, the knee is not going to resolve.

Or sometimes.

Oh, sorry, go ahead.

Or the hip.

Right, right.

And then there is the low back.

I tell people a lot of the times I've actually got on my YouTube channel, I've got a video that says, you know, ignore the low back to fix it.

And they're like, what?

The low back?

And.

And this is something everybody needs to know this.

So thank you so much for having me on here, because I want your audience to know this, and hopefully they'll be my megaphone, because that's where the eraser gets bigger.

Got other people sharing this stuff.

Right, Right.

So the low back, its job, and I won't glaze people's eyes over with anatomy, but the way those vertebrae stack, its strength is bending forward and backward.

That is the strength of the lumbar spine.

The low back, now, it does do a little bit of side bending, and it does a tiny bit of rotation, but very little.

So, I mean, if I turn this much, that's 90 degrees of rotation.

The lumbar spine only rotates about 7 to 13 degrees, which is very little.

So many, many years ago, Twist.

Don't turn.

Don't rotate when you exercise because somebody got a hold of one of the joint anatomy books and realized, oh, it doesn't rotate.

That's why people are hurting their back.

No, that's completely inaccurate.

We need to rotate.

You got to turn your body to get out of a car.

I mean, you got to turn your body to get into bed.

You got to be able to turn your body.

We're designed to rotate.

The issue is the rotation is supposed to happen above the low back and below the low back.

So if somebody's in their car and they turn to back up their car in the driveway and they have neck pain or back pain, guess what?

It's the trunk more often than not.

Or it could be the hips.

If they're standing and they're in the kitchen and they turn, oh, my back.

Well, guess what?

It's the hip.

One of your hips isn't rotating.

Right.

Or both.

So you have to be seen as a whole person in order to resolve pain issues.

Right.

You can't be isolated as a body.

Part, and you have to be violently aware of what's happening.

Like, I know when I broke my foot, all of a sudden I was like, oh, my hip.

Well, yeah, I'm walking different.

My whole gait is different.

So, yes, of course my hip is going to take something different.

Or I work at night, and I know when I carry trays like this, it does put extra pressure on there.

So it's like, okay, so how do we.

You know, it's.

I. I see what you're saying, and you have to be aware of that because you have to be able to go to your physical therapist and be like, when I do this, this hurts.

And let her explain to you why, you know, I mean, if she knows.

And.

And little things, too.

I mean, that are so.

I mean, kind of off the charts.

But I was having problems with my neck, and they tried to say, you know, oh, you're C1, 2, and 3, and we can cut your neck and we can fuse those vertebraes and everything else.

Finally went to a chiropractor who works on backs and necks, and she said, your lymph system is jacked.

Get some of that crap out of your neck and maybe you can move it.

So, yeah, I love it.

I went and I bought a rebounder, and I bought a shaker plate, and I sat on it and I moved.

And I did very simple Chinese medicine.

I chi with mom neck exercises, and my neck has no problem, but they wanted to cut me and fuse those two vertebrae together so my neck wouldn't feel like it was falling off.

Yeah, yeah.

You want to hear a neck story?

That's.

That's crazy.

I had a patient come in who had been treated by somebody else eight or nine times for neck pain, and completely useless.

Treatment did nothing for him.

Note.

The note said he had.

Wasn't any better.

So he gets on my schedule because his therapist was on vacation, and.

And I'm asking him, I'm going, okay, let's.

Let's look at something else here, because obviously this isn't working.

And he was happy to hear that because he wanted to get rid of the neck pain.

So I said, so tell me, when does your neck hurt you?

And he said, when I do my morning walk.

Now I know how everything's connected.

So I asked him, I said, well, have you ever sprained your ankles?

And he said, constantly.

So I looked at his ankles, and there's a motion the ankle has to have that his ankles didn't have.

And I did some very simple joint mobs to restore the mobility in the joints.

I Taught him how to do a very specialized way of lengthening the calf muscles because they.

And he never had to come back.

His neck pain was gone because it was his ankles.

Every step he took, it was creating the strain up the body because the ankles weren't functioning properly.

So.

So imagine if this poor guy had kept getting treatment and they found something on imaging because they're going to find something on anybody who's over the age of 12.

But it doesn't mean that's the reason behind it.

Think you could have even had neck surgery?

Yeah, it's crazy.

Or cortisone shots and just violently intrusive procedures when.

Yeah, how about just rotate your ankles, pull them back, stretch your calf muscles?

I mean, it is crazy.

It's.

But like you said, we need more people like you on these podcasts screaming out the big picture so that people can go, maybe I should advocate for myself.

Maybe I should get a second opinion.

Maybe I should watch Tai Chi with Mom.

I love that Instagram show.

Yes, I'm gonna have to check that out.

Yeah, it's cute.

It's cute.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But, but.

So anyway, let's talk about.

Because people, my clients all come from a trauma background.

They all have chronic pain.

They all have inflammation.

They all have joints.

They all have stomach issues.

They all have stuff.

The same.

The same physiological symptoms from growing up with your body not really functioning properly.

Let's talk about that.

Yeah.

So.

Well, a lot of the times, and this is what I've observed, and I'm certainly not, you know, everybody who's listening to this.

It doesn't mean this is them.

But what I've observed is the human body will store trauma in a way that the brain can handle, something that is considered acceptable.

And I'm going to explain that.

There's a doctor, Dr. John Sarno, I don't know if you've heard of him, but he does some beautiful work.

He calls it tms, Tension Myositis Syndrome.

And what he found was that people who had issues that nobody could resolve, he found that those issues were mainly because there was an unresolved issue in their life that wasn't an acceptable thing to tell people.

So now the body kind of stores it as something that is acceptable, like chronic pain or a medical condition.

And so help yet, because we're not addressing the cause, the reason that problems there, they just keep chasing their tail.

They're playing whack a mole, basically, with their life.

And so.

And what I loved about John Sarno's work is, and I'LL get into the support group I've been doing in a moment.

But what I loved about his work was the fact that a lot of people and I looked into the data and there were some, Some studies that were done.

I don't know how ideal they were as far as having, you know, having a group that wasn't doing anything, no intervention.

And the group with intervention, there's some gold standards of studies when they're published.

But it was still pretty profound that he figured out that about 90% of the people who once they were made aware of the fact that this was caused by something that was unresolved, they figured out what it was and they got better without even counseling.

So, I mean, you know, the human body is so resilient that the human spirit is just phenomenally created and designed to.

To resolve things once we're aware, like you said, just getting aware.

So say there's a woman who, you know, maybe lost her husband and they were only married for three years.

Well, she's going to be mad as hell that she lost her husband.

But that's not appropriate.

You can't share that with people.

What do you mean?

You're mad at your husband?

He was killed in an accident.

He didn't do that on purpose.

Why would you be mad at your husb.

You know, so that's not appropriate to share.

And so now this person is going to develop some issue, chronic pain.

It's going to be locked in their body.

So there's so many ways that when people become aware of things, and I love how you said that, so profound, just becoming aware can change things radically.

So.

Yes, absolutely.

And John Sarno with.

I mean, all of that, the mind, body, connection, people, people really need to grasp that.

That.

Yes.

You know, I always tell people, especially like my clients, I'll say, you know, you can trick your mind, you can't trick your body.

Yeah.

So you can say all you want.

You could word vomit anything you want.

But then when you sit and feel it in your body, if you are not telling what your mind truly believes is true in your subconscious, which is 99, 98% of how we run our world, you're going to feel it in your body.

You're going to feel a gut punch or a twinge or your neck is going to talk.

I mean, I just like watching people when they lie, you know, and that their shoulders just.

I'm like, you just lied.

And they're like, what?

And I'm like, because your body doesn't lie.

It got tense.

It Knew it was getting ready to tell a untruth, you know, so it's just funny.

But that it's.

So you're right.

And I mean, I grew up, kind of sounds very similar.

I had two alcoholic parents.

My mother was a drug addict.

I mean, the whole thing, you know, thinking it was funny to pimp me out to her drug dealers, that kind of thing.

A lot of it stored in my body.

So.

But when I was 18 and I had, and I was vomiting blood and had bleeding ulcers, no doctor ever said, well, what's your home life like?

What is the last two decades been like for you?

What kind of stress?

What kind of things?

Nobody ever said that.

And it wasn't until I started journaling and writing and being able to get some of the ick out of my body that I started, my stomach started feeling better.

I never had to go.

They were going to do all kind, they did all kinds of scopes and blah, blah, blah.

And they wanted.

I never had to have surgery.

I never had to do any of that.

Just had to get rid of the pain in my body.

Yes.

So.

Yes.

Yeah.

And it stores there.

And this is what I, I mean this truly, there is science behind this.

Yeah.

When we have stress in our emotions, it puts us into that run from the bear mode, that sympathetic nervous system overdrive.

So we're constantly getting these cortisol squirts, which is the stress hormone.

We're having all this stuff happen in our body on a chemical level which impacts our muscle tension, our ability to move, clench the jaw.

I mean, there's just so much that the body will respond to that chemical cascade.

And it's because emotionally we're running from a bear.

Right.

And we don't know we're running.

Right.

And the parasympathetic, which is the heal and repair mechanism, can't work at the same time.

Right.

One is a brake, one is a gas pedal.

If you, if you're in a car and you put your feet on both pedals, you're not going anywhere.

So, you know, they don't both work at the same time.

So it's, it's so important for people to know that we want to get them out of the run from the bear mode and into the heal and repair mode.

And, and there are some strategies they can do that can help physiologically how the body's designed.

You know, there's breath work.

I mean, if you, if you take six, ten second breaths per minute, that will get your vagal tone happy and there's A lot of science behind it.

I don't want people's eyes to glaze over.

But.

And I'm sure, you know, I'm preaching to the choir, you know, all this stuff.

Right, right, right.

But I want people to know because, you know, when I.

When I'm working with people in a.

In a pain setting and I'm putting my hands on them if they happen to be in the clinic.

But I do a lot of online work with people as well, because I've learned things to teach them that don't need my hands on them.

But.

But when I am, you know, when people are in trauma or they have history of trauma, their body stiffens when somebody's hands go on them.

They're not happy about somebody's hands on them because they've been abused.

They've been.

Especially if a woman, if you're going to, you know, try to fix a sacral torsion and they've been sexually abused, their body automatically doesn't want that touch.

No.

So there's.

There's a lot of things that you need to be aware of to know.

So there was one instructor, and I always say, I'm not all that brilliant.

I'm just really gifted at finding brilliant people and learning what they know.

And there was this one really brilliant person that I learned some myofascial work, cranial sacral work.

And I'll never forget what she said.

She said, don't tell people to relax.

It's the worst thing you can do, because as soon as you tell them to relax, they tense.

They tense because people don't know how to relax.

She said, and she's talking in a clinic setting, tell them to breathe.

Everybody knows how to breathe.

So when I work with people, I say, okay, why don't you take a nice deep breath in?

I want you to exhale completely.

And when they do that, their body just automatically goes into a state of relaxation.

And now I can work with them and I can help them.

So there's so many things, how the body's set up.

You know, I'm improving vagal tone.

You can improve vagal tone by splashing cold water on your face.

You can laugh.

You're literally humming people.

I was just gonna say, people always laugh at me at work because they're like, why are you humming?

I'm like, I don't know.

Just good for me.

I'm like, I just like that.

Yeah, you can hum.

You can sing now.

I can't really sing.

It's not my gift.

I have a lot of them.

That ain't one of them.

You know, if I'm in my car, I'll sing.

My husband's funny.

He tells me, you sound fine.

And I'm like, well, I have to help him tune his guitar.

So I think he doesn't quite hear me.

So.

Yeah, no, there are.

And there are so many things of just the nervous system.

And that's what I work with my.

You know, I work with my clients a lot.

On.

I just had a new client yesterday, and she said, oh, I've been to therapy for how many years?

And I said, you can do all of the talk therapy you want.

That's great, great.

But if it's still in your body, you're still reacting from that.

Like, that is going to be the issue.

And just.

Even just a couple, you know, deep breaths and just little things.

She's like, wow, I feel lighter.

Of course you do.

Of course you do.

And that's.

And when you feel lighter and you're not tense, you're not doing more damage to your body, I mean, and you're not.

Your chronic pain will go away.

So talk about some little tips and tricks you have for people, because like I said, a lot of people have chronic pain.

I mean, they just do.

What are some suggestions?

You might have them.

And I think it's important for us to, I don't know, separate out, but not really separate out, but sort of combine.

Sometimes the chronic pain is because there's a body part that's just not functioning right, and it might have nothing to do with past trauma or emotion.

Right.

So.

So we want to make sure that people aren't thinking, oh, until I unload everything that I'm.

I've dealt with in my past, I can't get out of pain.

That's not necessarily true.

Right.

So.

So I want to make sure people know this.

So the.

The human body, as I said, everything's connected.

So there are some very simple movements that people can start to incorporate on a regular basis that I've had people report to me has really helped them to resolve some.

Sometimes some pretty serious pain, like a muscle strain or.

Or something like that.

So.

So.

My training is really about making sure the whole body's moving and making sure the body is moving in three planes of motion.

Most often when we move the body, it's just one plane.

Especially when we go to the gym, we do a lot of garbage in the gym.

That has nothing to do with human function and really sets us up for tendonitis, tendinopathy, tendinosis I've worked with a lot of people who went to the gym every day who had tendonitis and all kinds of problems because they're isolating muscles and they're, they're using machines and all of this.

So we have a body, let's use the body for movement.

We don't really need all the equipment, we don't need all that stuff.

Just body weight can be enough.

Yes, you can add some hand weights.

If you're really concerned about bone density and all those things, you want to be careful and seek somebody who really knows what they're doing.

But the thing is this just a simple movement, just getting the body moving.

And I want everybody to try this right now.

If they're listening, just stand up and be on your feet.

And we're going to do a three plane, what I call a hip matrix.

It's very simple.

You're just going to bring your hips forward and back and you're going to do that just kind of like rocking.

Now I tell people sometimes people have pain when they do either one of those motions.

So say bringing the hips forward creates pain.

They might get some pulling on their low back because if they're used to doing a lot of sitting, sitting, or if they're in that curl up mode to protect themselves, those muscles don't want to get longer.

They don't want to allow you to lean back and bring your hips forward.

They're going to yank on your spine.

They're not going to be happy about it.

So what I tell people, it's kind of like, you know, if a drawer gets stuck and you push it all the way in to get it on track to pull it out.

So if you do the opposite motion, that can really help your body to release that tension because the muscle starts to get this fluid fill effect, this kind of pumping action, because motion is lotion.

So instead of trying to force it forward because it hurts, then focus on the backward motion and just come forward enough and stop before you're what I call punching the bear in the nose on the backward and only come maybe to neutral or just slightly forward.

But what you're going to see is eventually you're going to get this beautiful inchworm effect.

And, and you're going to, the muscle is going to start to release because you're not trying to force anything.

Your body feels safe.

Your brain doesn't feel like it has to protect you from you.

Right?

So you know, when you're a lot of people, you know, that whole no pain just makes me Want to put my fist through a wall?

Because it's just not accurate when it comes to resolving pain and restoring function, pain is a warning sign.

It's also going to put your brain into a protective mode.

And you're going to train in dysfunction, but you're not going to know it.

And what I mean by that is, if somebody right now is trying to force their hips forward even though it hurts, their brain's trying to figure out a way to stop that from happening.

So they're going to side bend, they're going to turn.

That brain is going to have that body do all kinds of funky stuff, trying to stop the pain with every repetition.

So now they're training in dysfunction, not function.

So.

So don't let it hurt.

And I've had so many people who've gotten a revelation from that after hearing that there, you know, I finally listened to what you said, and I stopped making it hurt.

And I'm so much better now.

You know, it's phenomenal.

It just makes total sense.

I mean, when you.

Your body is a protector, your brain is a protector.

That's why you have all these trauma responses.

Your body's no different.

So, yeah, if something hurts, what's the first thing it does?

It tenses everything around it, sends blood flow to it.

Like it does all those things to stop the pain.

Yes.

And.

Yeah.

It thinks it has to protect you from you.

Yep.

Yeah.

And it won't tell you that it's doing it.

No.

It's a secret.

Yeah.

So.

So a matrix is anything that moves in three planes of motion.

So the forward and back is one.

So everybody now knows don't force anything and how to.

How to kind of reset it.

And then the other one is sideways.

So it's kind of like, you know, you can see my whole body's kind of part of this.

But the goal is, if you had parallel bars next to your hips, you're trying to tap them.

I call that sway with the baby.

That's your motion with the baby.

And it's the same thing if you've got one side that the body doesn't like.

Maybe your knee or your hip or your back or whatever doesn't like going one way, do the way that it likes and just ease toward the other direction.

And I cannot tell you how many patients I've seen where, you know, I'll give them this homework, and they'll come back and they'll go, I'll say, okay, can you.

Can you side bend to the right now?

And they'll Go, oh, yeah, I could do that like the next day.

Because the body wasn't trying to protect them and it released.

So you get this nice pendulum action.

And then the third plane of motion is turning, and you want to be able to just rotate now and again.

The same premise.

Don't do a motion that doesn't like.

Now, the thing with this matrix is if people are paying attention.

So right now, feel your feet on the floor and notice when your hips come forward, your ankles are actually going into that beautiful motion required for a healthy gait.

And when your hips go back, it's the opposite.

But you're mobilizing your ankles, you're mobilizing your knees, you're mobilizing your hips, you're mobilizing your low back.

I mean, your whole body's involved.

And if you really want to add to it, you can just let the arms go up and reach down a little bit, and you can make it a bigger motion, but just that you're working your whole body.

And that's how your body's designed for everything to be a team and help you to do whatever it is you want to do.

And it's the same thing with the side to side.

The ankles have this ability to evert and invert.

Nobody has to know those terms.

But if the ankles aren't doing that, you're not going to have a proper function in that ankle, and you're going to have neck pain, shoulder pain, low back pain, knee pain whenever you walk.

So we want that side motion.

And then the same thing with rotation.

The ankles are pronating and supinating.

They've got to be able to do that for a healthy gait.

So you're getting like a three for one here with a very simple move.

Yeah.

And it doesn't take long to do it.

No, it's.

It's very simple.

And it's kind of like breathing.

I mean, I love stuff that says you can do it any time of day, anywhere you are.

You don't, you know, you always have your breath.

That's why my breath.

The breath is one of the most powerful tools in your body because you always have it.

Yeah.

If you're stressing out, you can go sit on a toilet and breathe.

Yes.

And.

And you're probably aware of this, but when people are doing healthy breathing, you're mobilizing your thoracic spine.

That area between the neck and the low back is getting mobilized when you get that healthy breath.

So, you know, when people aren't breathing well, that t Spine can kind of stiffen and when that stiffens, neck pain, shoulder pain, low back pain.

Yeah, yep.

And that vagus nerve runs right through there too.

So you're getting it all at once.

You're doing it all at once.

You know, the vagus nerve is fascinating.

It's the Latin term for the wanderer because it's the longest nerve in the body.

I mean it starts at the neck and it goes down and it listens to everything that's going on down there.

All the organs, all the, all the systems.

I mean, it's listening, it's paying attention and we want to make sure it hears good stuff.

Yeah, that is okay.

Yeah, yeah.

No, I love, I love studies with the vagus nerve and just learning how to work with it and comment and.

Because it is, it's, it goes through everything.

So it takes, touches in some way.

It touches every single organ, every single, every single part of your body.

So to have it, it calmed is, is really helpful.

Yes.

So, so tell us about your, your support group.

Yes.

Okay, so the support group is something that a dear friend had had a vision of starting.

And when I met her, God kind of put us together and we, we, we launched this group group.

And, and the interesting thing is, and, and I think this will be good for the audience to hear.

I had said to her, you know, I haven't really experienced abuse, so I don't think these women, you know, they might not be able to relate to me or, or, or whatever because I didn't see my past as abuse.

And there are people out there who don't realize.

And, and you know, we've had women come to the group because they had physical abuse, but they didn't realize that they had been sexually abused because they were forced by their spouse.

And they're like, well, we're married.

That's not rape.

Go.

Yes it is.

If you said no and he's chasing you around the house, attacking you, that's rape.

That's abuse.

So we're not like, you know, seeking out, looking for, you know, it's not a witch hunt, but it's getting people again to be made aware of the fact that.

Because like I said, I was completely unaware that I had a history of abuse.

Kind of interesting.

So, so it's, it's what I, what I love about the group now.

And, and I will be completely transparent.

It is a faith based group.

You know, it is, it is God centered.

And what I have seen, we, we, it's kind of like a 14 week program.

We do Have a workbook that we use.

The, the main source that we use is so scripture.

But what I've seen in this group, when these women are supported, the, I think, you know, the secret sauce of this group is the support, the feeling understood.

They know how I feel.

I'm not alone.

And when these women share their stories, which we do, like week eight, because by then they've connected, they've made, they've developed a really good trust in the group and they're ready.

It's, it's phenomenal because they hear, oh my gosh, yeah, she went through that.

I know what that's like.

I, and nobody gives anybody advice.

It's not a counseling group.

It's.

And we even tell them, we warn them.

I go, I don't want you giving anybody advice because you could say the completely wrong thing and hurt them like crazy.

So what you're going to do is you're going to say, you know, I've experienced that myself and this is what I've learned.

Or this is what I found worked for me.

This is what I used.

So you share your story.

You don't tell other people what to do because that can be very harmful.

But, but we've had, we've had women who like hated their body and end up happily married with kids.

I mean, we've had women who were, were so traumatized.

I mean, they were actually involved in satanic ritual abuse and sold to other men by their father at the age of three.

I mean, there are some stories that would make people's hair stand on end.

And so we see these women heal.

We see them this, this environment that is completely safe.

It's unconditional love.

There is nothing they can say that is.

And, and I found this with myself when I first shared my story.

When I came to the realization that I had grown up in this, all this stuff.

I mean, it was a wake up call.

And so when I shared my story and nobody in the room looked at me differently after I spoke than they had looked at me before I spoke.

It didn't change who they saw I was in their eyes.

And there's something so healing about that.

I mean, when women share that, you know, they were forced to have an abortion with a seven month pregnancy or.

I mean, these women, we're talking major trauma here, right?

And when they get this out and all they receive is love, it's, it heals, you know, And I mean, I'm not taking God out of the equation.

That's, that's, that's a Huge piece of it.

Right.

You know, understanding who you are and how much you're loved and how valuable and precious you are as a human being.

That's.

That's critical, too.

So.

But the.

The number one key factor is feeling safe and feeling safe in your own body and feeling safe.

And so when you.

You're.

You're so right.

It gives me goosebumps because.

Yes.

When you find that community, that you're not judged and you don't.

And you can actually speak without fear of judgment.

And that's the thing.

You know, it doesn't matter what they've done.

And when people have a history of trauma, they make a lot of what the world would consider really bad decisions, really poor choices, because they're trying to navigate a world from a fractured mindset.

Yeah.

So, you know, it's the only way they know how to survive.

And, you know, there's some people who had to do what we call fawn, which I'm sure you're familiar with.

But in case your audience isn't, you know, fight, flight, freeze, or fawn.

So fight is okay, I'm going to fight the bear, you know, run from the bear, or I'm going to freeze in terror.

I don't know what to do, or I'm going to fawn.

And that's when you try to.

You have to kind of manipulate your own emotions around someone who's abusive because you never know when the next abuse is going to happen.

So you're just a people.

You're just trying to not cause them to be triggered.

Yep.

So you completely turn off your emotions.

You don't know how to emote.

So when you get older, you know, that's how you've navigated the world.

You don't know any other way.

So, yeah, you're going to.

You're going to make decisions that aren't healthy.

You're going to.

You're going to make choices that are going to be more harmful than good.

Of course you are.

You're going to get caught up, you know, with alcohol or drugs or being sexually promiscuous or, I mean, the list goes on.

You're going to, you know, be a shopaholic or a foodaholic or, you know, all these things are going to be out of control because you're trying to navigate from a broken lens.

Right.

So once that lens gets clear, life's a whole different ballgame.

Yeah.

When you can start really thinking for yourself and not worrying about what the repercussions of every single action, thought and Word are going to be.

Oh, it's so liberating.

Yes.

Liberating.

Yes, yes.

Yeah.

And we want the end.

And then you can.

And then kind of tie that back in to kind of wrap us up about like you deal with chronic pain.

Yes.

Is that, that's part of the support group.

A lot of people are coming to you because they have these.

And when I say chronic pain, it could be anywhere and it could be.

Is that emotional pain too?

Is that part of that thing?

Oh, yeah.

I mean, one of the biggest things that we've found when somebody has a trauma history is there are two emotions that are the biggest offending factors.

Fear and anger.

And anger is actually a protective mechanism because somebody's truly in fear.

And it's interesting because women and men are different.

I know the world might struggle with that, but women, when they are fearful and they're angry about it, they turn the anger inward.

So they depend.

They tend to deal a lot more with depression and anxiety and all of those things.

Men, because they are a little different, that anger tends to be outward.

It's projected out.

Yes.

So they become abusive or they become hair trigger kind of a thing.

Now, some women can have that and some men can be the opposite.

But I've seen that, you know, that's what I've observed.

So it's.

Yeah, there's.

There's so much that.

I'm sorry, I kind of lost my tracks.

I got thinking about all of that.

What you had asked me.

No, it's.

I was just asking about the emotional part of it, but it's true.

And I remember I was at a Bible retreat one time, a Christian Bible retreat, and we were talking about how everything has a polar opposite.

And I remember when we got to love and somebody said hate.

And I immediately, because of what I do, I said fear.

And they were like, that's really interesting.

And I said, but it's true.

Yeah.

You know, I, that's how I saw it, you know, and, and I.

They were like, wow, that's an interesting concept.

I was like, yeah, it's not, it's just fear.

Fear runs people, runs them.

Yes, yes.

And on the other, if I could kind of add to that, a lot of the times the opposite of love is selfishness because we're so concerned about ourselves.

And I'm not necessarily saying that as a bad thing because if you've got that history and you're, you're, you know, it's all about you because you're trying to survive.

Right.

So it's Kind of hard to love people when you're all worried about, am I going to be safe?

Am I okay?

Well, you know, wherever you go.

And it's not even a conscious thought, like you said.

A lot of it is subconscious.

Yes, most of it, unfortunately.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But that's what we do.

That's why we're out here, is to raise that.

To raise that unconscious up and then heal it at a conscious.

Have the.

The positive be the conscious part, not the.

Not the negative be the.

Or positive should be the unconscious part too, as well, I guess, is what I'm trying to say.

Yes.

Yes.

Yeah.

Great.

So this has been super fun.

So tell people if they want to work with you or want to find out more about your support group, where do they go and how do they find you?

Yeah.

So.

Well, first we'll start with the support group because it is local.

We do meet live.

Um, you know, it's in upstate New York, so if anybody wants to email me, I'm happy.

If they happen to be in our area to want to join the group, please, you are more than welcome.

It's always open.

We do two sessions a year.

We start the first Monday after February.

So we'll be starting whatever Monday that is in February, which is the second we run for 14 weeks.

And then we offer private time to meet with them and pray with them and help them through anything that they weren't able to navigate on their own during the group.

And so they can email me and I'll be happy to let them know if they happen to be local.

I am working on writing a book about Cameo because I think it really needs to get out there.

I do also have a vision of creating an online training program for other facilities, churches, wherever, where they would like to create a support group like that, because there really aren't any.

And.

And we've seen such success.

I mean, the testimonies are just over the moon, so I, I would love to see it expand and, and go international, you know?

Well, with the Zoom right now, I mean, even if people didn't.

Couldn't do it in person, a virtual support group of the exact same setup would be amazing.

Now, we did do Zoom.

When the world shut down, we did transition to Zoom because we had, we were.

Had a group ongoing.

I think it was like the fourth or fifth week of the sessions, and everybody was like, oh, my gosh.

You know, and these people, we couldn't just let them go.

So we transitioned to Zoom.

And then when the world came back online, some of them were very panicked about they couldn't wear a mask because of the abuse they'd received.

And other people were like, I don't want to be in a room where people aren't wearing a mask.

So we stayed online for a long time, time because of that, that dichotomy that occurred with the women.

But now we are back to.

But we can.

It's.

It's better if you're in the room with somebody because you can hug them.

You can.

And I can kind of gauge.

And I don't make anybody hug me.

I'm like, is it okay if we hug?

If it's not, we don't.

But I know that they've gotten some layers off because all of a sudden, by week six, they're okay to be hugged.

Right, Right.

So it's kind of cool.

But.

But yeah, there's that.

And then as far as working about pain issues, I do private consulting, but I have a couple of online programs that can really help people sort of dip their toe in the water and see if this is work that, that resonates with them.

And they're like, yeah, this feels like this is really going to help me.

So I do have a free level membership and it's in my online private club, which is kind of like a Netflix subscription.

You can just go in there and binge watch all you want.

All virtual.

Lots of movement training, lots of education, lots of understanding on how to fix things.

Knee pain, shoulder pain, neck pain, that kind of thing.

And that is, it's.

It's the name of it is Move Without Pain Private club.

But to shorten the link, it's MWP private club dot com.

And there's a.

There's a short video, it's like 20 minutes where people can learn.

They can assess their body in three planes.

They can figure out what's going on, what's not working right, what is working right.

They can kind of get a handle on things a little bit better than if they go to somebody that sees them as a body part that walks through the door.

And then there's an initial training that introduces them to the three plane training.

And I've had a lot of people that have fixed pain just from that free class.

Wow.

It can be pretty powerful.

And then of course, there is a paid level if they, if they so choose.

Right.

Sounds great.

Sounds.

Sounds so good.

Thank you so much, Eileen.

We have.

I've learned a lot and I hope everybody out there listening has.

I'm sure if nothing else, you got some tips, you got the Three movements.

And start small, though.

Remember, guys, start small.

Baby steps.

Don't force anything.

If it's not in alignment and it doesn't feel right, don't do it.

Yes, listen to your instincts.

Listen to your.

They're so used to denying their instincts because of past trauma.

Listen to your instincts.

They are there for a reason.

Yes, we are all knowing.

We just don't know it.

And we, and we shut it down.

And that's usually because we've been told not to listen to them.

So, yes, listen to them.

And again, Eileen, thank you so much.

Before you go, give your, our listeners a big, broad words of wisdom, piece of advice from you.

Okay?

No pressure, no pressure.

I love this, though.

I swear I'm going to take all 250 of them and make a book out of it because I think that's.

Oh, I love it.

I love it.

So I'm feeling the most important thing to state right now is the fact.

That.

We are designed and created to live life with joy and love and be at peace.

And when we have a history that's the opposite of that, we don't know that truth.

And, and yes, no matter what someone's experienced, they can come out of that.

They can heal from that.

And, and, and you know, God, if I'm allowed to say that God wants them healed, he wants them whole, he wants them well, he wants them walking in joy and peace and love.

And there's a lot of misunderstandings about that whole topic.

But I can say, you know, 26 years I've seen it.

We, we are, we're meant to live life with joy.

And no matter what your past, that is possible.

Yes.

Very well said.

Thank you so much again.

And for everybody else out there listening, you've heard us say it before and over again.

You were born.

I don't know how many times the listeners have heard me say, you're born this beautiful, divine, joyous, perfect creature.

That's how he intended it.

And then somebody came along and told you something different.

And every single moment and every single second that you take spending it on working on yourself to get back to that beautiful.

Not the, not, not a new you, the you that you were created as.

That's what we're going for.

So thank you all.

Yes.

Can I just interject one thing?

I forgot to say so the name Cameo for the ministry is meant to carve away the ugly past to reveal the beautiful woman you were always meant to be.

Amen.

I just love that so much because people I so many times you hear people say I'm going to become a new me.

No, you're not.

You're going to become the you that you were born and meant to be in the beginning, before shit happened.

And when shit happens, we.

We get that light blown out.

But the light has always been in there.

And all those lies from the pit of hell that impacted you.

Yes.

So look to your God.

Look inside.

Between.

I always say, between me and my God.

We got it all figured out.

We just have to take the tools we have and actually apply them.

Thank you so much, everybody, and we'll see you back next week.

And until then, practice those movements.

Stretch out a little.

See how it feels in your body.

Be gentle and love yourself, because you so deserve it.

Yes.