68. What Fear Really Costs a Songwriter — Seth Aaron on Going All In

You wrote a song about mom and you had a line that was like,

I know your lips don't always say the things your heart wants to reveal.

I wish they made a word bigger than love so I can tell you how I feel.

You wrote that when you were like 13 years old.

I was like, that's like the best.

I was like, I'm stealing that to the next.

I like signed a Valentine's Day card.

Today on Loves Music, I interview my brother, Seth Aaron, an incredible artist, singer-songwriter, plays all over Philadelphia with shows on the way, has a new album coming out called Record of Wrongs.

We talk about that project, past projects, growing up as two knuckleheads in Abington together.

I think you're really going to enjoy this episode.

If you like what you heard so far, please tell somebody who loves music.

Up next, Seth Aaron.

Welcome back, man.

So this interview was a long time coming, man.

Thanks for finally coming to my show.

dude oh my gosh just so i'm so glad to be a part of it finally man yeah i've been enjoying watching

and enjoying all the familiar faces big hollywood all his fancy songs no time to come do my little

show no but you really are man dude the stuff you're making is it's so good now man just to

watch your growth over the years i mean every time you play something for me i'm like he really can't

get any better than this like he reached his like the peak of his potential and then you come out

with this other joke i'm just working on this one a little bit here and then you play it and i'm like

oh the second best song i ever heard that means a lot coming from you man especially you have uh

famously like the best taste in music in the family so thanks man this is why we're here this

is why we're all here that's not saying much i think it was like three of us

so so uh so talk to me about the next project man um coming off of probably about what like a four

or five year um a four or five year hiatus love y'all was a seven song album came out or i'm gonna

say around quarantine era maybe a hair before 19 it was right before uh lockdown awesome songs on

there uh brother one um give me give me some brother one better believe um oh gosh what do

You say, whole ass home, highlights.

Yeah.

Bad.

Sweet too.

Flawless seven song sample that spans your whole arsenal.

Fast songs, soul songs, rock songs,

hint of country-ish singer song,

fun songs, introspective songs.

How have you evolved from that project to this one?

Any artist's first couple of projects,

it's discernible that they are figuring themselves out, right?

They're figuring out their voice, not just their actual voice,

but their, their like point of view,

their perspective and their message and stuff like that.

And I think that's indicative.

In my first album, Heart Condition,

you tell them like I'm leaning into the variety of everything

and trying to look at all of the different things I can do.

This funky cover.

I think it's a little bit more fine tunes in, in Much Love Y'all,

which is my second album.

But still really leaning into, you know,

I'm pulling inspiration from all these different places.

And I want to show you guys in seven songs,

like the full breadth of what a Seth Aaron record or show is.

With the next project though, it's a little bit more for me.

And what I mean by that is simply,

I'm telling my stories the way I want to tell my stories,

a little bit more unapologetically, you always think about your audience and like, you know,

how you can meet them where they're at. That's a part of this always. But I've been, I mean,

like you said, I haven't released very much music in the past couple of years. And this next project

is really just a look into what's been going on in my life over that time. And so it's less about

making things

palatable for the masses

and a little bit more about

just being honest and being real

about where I'm at now,

where I have been.

And even

from a genre standpoint,

whereas my last albums

were like a little bit of everything,

this is leaning a little bit more

like soul blues.

I've been affectionately calling it

Soul Treat.

because there's a certain countryness to it,

but it's definitely not without a lot of soul.

That's always at the core.

What is the difference in terms of mindset?

Maybe not you specifically, but fundamentally,

the difference between making music

with public consumption in mind

versus making music for myself?

That distinction doesn't always come into play

because sometimes when you're making music for yourself,

it ends up being what the public wants.

But there are a couple different scenarios where it's like I could make a choice here in this hook or when I'm considering the runtime of the song.

I'll take a song from Much Love Y'all, for example, What Do You Say?

Which is like a five verse, very long song.

But it's a pretty like potentially commercial like wedding season type song, like something like Ed Sheeran would put out or something in March.

know um but because it's as long as it is it's like not it doesn't have like quite as much

commercial potential but i i was really willing to sacrifice the story for the potential for it

to be like a radio hit you know what i mean i needed to be as long as it is um and that mentality

um is all in and throughout every song on this record that's not to say that it doesn't have

uh you know pop hits and you know like like commercial stuff on there bohemian rhapsody

is an opera song that's like five and a half years long yeah it doesn't necessarily mean you know you

can't break through with something avant-garde it's also not not not some like totally left

field artsy project i think it's just a little bit more focused i feel like i'm comfortable enough

And I've healed enough to not be scared to have an album that delves into some of the darker aspects of what it is to be an artist right now, an artist at my age that feels like it's all very new to me, even though I've been doing it for 20 years.

You know what I mean? There's all of these things that are, uh, it's not necessarily party music,

but it's real, you know, and I'm, I'm, I'm excited about that. And I, I'm very confident

that my people are, are excited about that too. True. I think, I think from the stuff you've

played, it definitely caters to the people that are a fan of your songwriting, your live performance,

your voice, obviously. Um, I think that one of the distinctions I drew, and you can tell me if

I'm wrong or not, is you're letting the stories start to stand on themselves. I think with access

to the engineers that we have and all the talented musicians. It's easy to be like, okay, well, this

song, I'm going to bring in this guitarist and I'm going to make it swell. And because I have all

these people in the studio, I'm going to do this elaborate harmony. And it becomes these more about

the composition than the story. And with the stuff you're showing me, it's like story first.

How do we tell the story with these pieces? Leave it alone. Story's been told. You know what I mean?

I find that in the past I've been ready and willing to sacrifice elements of story for the sake of making the overall song just like a tasty little morsel that somebody will want to put in a commercial.

And I feel like if the songwriting is good enough, then the sincerity and authenticity of it will still shine through.

But this next project is exactly what you're saying.

It's an opportunity to let the story be the story and not add anything that doesn't serve that.

Right.

Adding something that just because it's cool doesn't necessarily elevate the message or the product itself.

And you're not sacrificing any quality with that too.

I mean, the songs that you're writing now are your best songs, objectively and personally, I think.

Thank you, man.

I mean, I can't say objectively and then say I think, but like the few people that have heard the newer stuff are like, yo, Seth got bangers coming out, you know?

I disagree with you in the sense that I think you can say it objectively because I think you're qualified to.

All right.

I think based on your knowledge of who I am as an artist, you've been there through all of it, and just your breadth of knowledge as a lover of music, I think you are. I think what makes you an authority on it is that you know enough about it to be able to say objectively, this is what makes this a better song than that song.

Now, do I like it more?

Maybe it's a yes, maybe it's a no.

But you think about that with movies all the time.

You know what I mean?

Did I like it?

And is it good?

Very different objective.

One is an objective truth and one is an opinion.

Well, we can certainly go down the rabbit hole of bad movies we absolutely love.

Oh, God.

On your other podcast.

Yeah.

One loves movies.

We're going to be talking about 13th Warrior and Warriors of Virtue.

I'm going to switch gears a little bit.

I heard a story.

You probably heard it before, but it made me it made me think you I've heard it.

Ever heard like the parable, I guess.

I guess it's like the parable of the Mexican fisherman.

No.

So so an American guy is vacationing in Mexico and he's on a beach and a Mexican fisherman

comes up with all this like beautiful tuna in his boat.

And he's like, man, how long did it take you to catch all that?

And the guy's like, not too long.

And an American's like, so what are you going to do now that you've caught all this

fish and he's like, ah, I don't know. I'll probably play with my kids, take a siesta.

Maybe I'll, you know, hang out with my wife and then I'll go into town at night, drink some wine

and play guitar with my, with my, with my amigos. And, and, and the Americans like, look, look,

I have a Harvard MBA. What I'm going to help you here. What I'm going to do is I'm going to show

you how we can get a whole fleet of boats. I mean, get a whole bunch of fish and we're actually going

to get some factory set up and then we're actually going to get a cannery and then we're going to get

really good branding. And we're going to be able to sell your fish all over the world.

I mean, it'd be huge. And the Mexican guy's like, oh, and then what? And he's like,

well, you're going to make millions. You're going to make millions after you do this.

And he's like, okay. And then what? And the American guy's well, you're going to make

these millions and you're going to be ableと retire. Do you know what you could do with all

that time once you retire? And the Mexican guy goes, well, I would probably just play with my

kids and take siestas with my wife. And at night, I would probably just drink wine and go play

guitar with my amigos. And the moral of the story is, man, life's simple. It made me think of us

because I know from my generation, we always believed that we have to commoditize all our

hobbies. If you're good at something, you got to go make money of it. If you're good at something,

you got to go make money off it. You know, you have to turn into a brand. And I think an entire

generation of artists got robbed of a pure creative experience. People that play guitar with their

amigos and just wanted to make songs with their friends. And they're like, okay, well, I got these

songs. So I guess I got to start a page and buy an LLC and do, and people like halfway chase this

dream and have this miserable experience. And all they want to do is just make some cool songs.

Do you agree that we have a generation of artists that got robbed of that experience?

With all my heart.

With all my heart, I agree.

I think in order for something to even qualify as art, it has to be born out of what are the purest aspects of the human experience.

The realest parts of being a person.

risk and danger and heartache and like all of this and and the way the standard and the machine

has changed it's kind of turned everything backwards so that we're we're we're kind of

just reverse engineering things that are already popular right and and you know we always say that

like if you're doing something because it's trendy it's already too late if it looks like a good

investment you're probably too late you know yeah yeah and and the question is like well how do you

how do you get out in front of that and i i don't think it's a bad thing that we can we can track

our numbers and and that we can look at data and and and that we have things like um you know we

could have a whole episode about ai obviously i'm i'm not here to like like shit on that i'm not

trying to be anti progress or whatever. Um,

but all of that stuff is really just risk management. Um,

all of that stuff is,

is a way to be sure that what you create is going to be,

it's going to have monetary worth. Um,

and the more sure you are, the less you're risking.

And the less you're risking, the less what you're creating really qualifies as art.

People are supposed to disagree about it.

People are supposed to have a dialogue about it.

You know, certain things about being alive were never meant to be on a scale, man.

Like I read a couple of weeks ago that like whimsy is trending and it made me want to

like throw up in my mouth because I'm just like, you take the thing that is like the

last thing that should ever like have dollar signs all around it.

Yeah.

And you put it out into the ether that, okay, now whimsy is trending.

So if you want your content to land with people, you have to make it more whimsical.

And so people are trying to figure out how to commodify whimsy, which is essentially just like unplugging and using your imagination and touching grass and like being silly.

And that's the energy that the best art is born out of.

It's planned spontaneity, which is virtually an oxymoron.

Right.

It doesn't actually like the logic folds in on itself.

And then we're stuck wondering what's missing from the art space now.

Why are we romanticizing the 90s so much and the 2000s so much?

It's because it's the last time we were dancing at the club.

It was the last time we were having experiences for the sake of having experiences and not just to like showcase our clout online.

And I get so fired up about it because there's room for all of it.

There's room to do it all these different ways.

If the way we do it now works for you, that's awesome.

Do that.

But the idea that like, in order to really like be competitive,

we got to sleep on the old magic.

That's, it breaks my heart, man.

And I think you're right.

I think a generation of artists are missing out.

And if we're not careful, the generation behind them is going to miss out.

And we change the entire landscape of music and the creation of art itself

by making every little thing that comes out of our minds

and out of our hearts into something that we can put a tag on

and say, pay me this much or you can't have it.

It's supposed to belong to other people once we release it.

And I know that it costs money to make art.

I know that it does.

It's two sides of the same coin because you're like,

okay, well, I want to be an artist

and I want to make stuff that's authentic

that isn't influenced by extrinsic factors.

I'm making stuff that's authentic

and very, very catered to me, not even catered to me, but a good representative of who I am.

But I want to know if it's good by showing it to other people. So I still have to grade my quality

on public validation. But if it's an accurate reflection of me, but the public doesn't accept

it, what am I supposed to do with that? You know? But what happened to taste?

Like what happened to like personal style?

I think it got replaced by stylists and tastemakers and people who tell you what you're allowed to like.

And so you have to run your ideas and your inspiration through a synthetic filter.

You have to run it through that to see what's going to land because you can't take a chance on your own taste because it's not developed.

You don't know what your own nervous system responds positively to or negatively to because you're too busy being told what you're allowed to like.

I see it all the time.

I work at a coffee shop during the day and I see it there, man.

People need me to tell them what kind of coffee to get.

You know what I mean?

It's like, how do you like your coffee?

It used to be a very simple question.

Think about mom asking dad how he likes his coffee.

It's a very simple question, but now it's like, do I want a green one or do I want a pink one or do I want one with like jelly balls in it?

There's nine different milks, eight different sweeters, freaking 13 different syrups.

Here's the crazy thing, though.

Here's the crazy thing.

When people don't know what they want, I try to appeal to their actual taste.

I don't say what's popular.

The last person that said, hey, what's popular?

I literally said, who cares?

And they were like, what?

I said, who cares?

Who cares what's popular?

What do you like?

I know the exact amount of snark you said that with.

Yeah.

I can picture it in my head.

It was great.

It was a risk.

We talked about risk already.

Who cares, Samantha?

She's like.

Well, I said, the reason I say that is because you could get something

popular, but that says nothing about what your taste buds want. Okay. So I asked them, I said,

what's your favorite ice cream? Everybody knows what their favorite ice cream is. That tells me

everything I need to know about how to make your coffee. I know how sweet you want it. I know how

many different components you'll be okay with. I have an idea of what kind of milk you might like,

you know what I mean? And then they're like, I've never ordered that before. I never ordered a

brown sugar, white mocha with salt. You know, I've never done that. I have no idea what that's

and taste like but i trust you because it was crazy that you asked me that question that way

um and then i make it for them they're like this is what i get now because that's what my taste

buds actually wanted it's what they actually like and when you want to try something popular

try something popular that's great do that but know what your taste is and then deviate from

your actual taste one degree at a time until you figure out the balance i think you can do the same

thing with music yeah allow it to matter what's popular allow it to matter right but but be

governed by your actual taste and to do that you have to know what your taste is it has to be

cultivated what do you think of this definition i'm not sure who i'm plagiarizing right now but

it says art is when art is when taste meets execution a lot of people have taste and can't

make stuff a lot of people can do stuff and have no taste but when they meet together that's where

art comes from what do you think oh yeah the taste part is is the soul is that that that person's

soul. I think that's what you take out of the equation when art turns into content,

is you take the soul away. 80% of life is just figuring out what it is you want to do.

And then the other part's easy. There's only a few things standing in your way. It falls into

one of three buckets. But it really is 80% figuring out what you want to do. And I actually

think from an art standpoint, the best artists are actually not experimenting as much. They might be

experimenting but in the vein of what they know they want to do know what they want to make who

they are as an artist and within that frame of who they are as an artist it's where they're doing the

experimenting and trying and tweaking um do you do you agree with that i think the best people

i'll give you i'll give you a good example i remember when we were doing we're all doing

music and i'm literally just experimenting with everything i have no idea what i'm doing

but i remember mark saying yo i want i want to be the king of the small venues i'm making like

adult dance pop songs and he had a very specified album with dance pop songs and even though he's

doing small bars he would bring in dances with him and i thought that was the peak of his powers

when he knew exactly what he was trying to do granted he tried six other genres after that

but when he knew exactly what he was trying to do that's when he had his best music i think you're

you're as close to that now as you've ever been i know exactly what i'm trying to make

yeah do you do now now do you agree with that criticism like do you feel like okay now this

we're not experimenting anymore like i have this is the lane and i can make tweaks within that lane

but i know exactly what i'm trying to do because that's what music sounds like now it helps that

my definition of success has changed i think in the past i would have defined success as

how well am I performing what's expected of me? It's more about the expectations than my own

purpose. People think I'm good, therefore I'm successful.

Right. Or how effectively am I being the person people expect me to be, being the artist people

expect me to be, being the employee, the brother, the son, the husband that people expect me to be.

And my success lives and dies with meeting other people's expectations.

Who's not struggling with that?

Good freaking, that's a bar.

I can think about moments in my life where I was really successful by that metric.

Where I felt like everybody was very impressed with where I was at in my life.

And very, very unbothered by me.

And I'm like, I'm doing great.

You know what I mean?

I have a job that I feel like mom and dad are proud of it.

And they're not too worried about me.

I feel like I'm checking the boxes I'm supposed to be checking.

The problem is simply it didn't make me feel like I thought that was supposed to make me feel.

because I still wasn't,

I was still settling for a version of doing music that was like this much of

what I feel I'm supposed to be doing.

I'm like,

as long as I'm on a stage,

as long as I'm like singing songs I like with people I like,

you know what I mean?

And,

and,

and I wouldn't dare put all of my eggs in the basket of like betting on

myself.

I wouldn't dare do that.

Cause that's so vain.

And that's,

you know what I mean?

And all of these excuses.

You are.

Yeah,

exactly.

Yeah.

and in order for me to get where I want to be

I would have to really

double down on that and really bet on myself

and I wasn't really prepared to do that

now I feel like I'm

not even I feel like I am

I'm in a completely different space

about all of that

because I feel

more prepared

for this next phase of my life

than I ever

ever felt at the beginning

of any big phase of my life

You know what I mean? I'm prepared for this. I have a lot of questions. There's a lot of mystery. There's a lot of things. I don't know how I'm going to pay for it or if certain things will pan out the way that I hope. However, I feel the most like me in this environment where I'm not necessarily sure how everything's going to shake out, but I'm at least on the path that I know that I'm supposed to be on.

um it feels i feel inspired right i i feel artistically like awake and and alive you know

what i mean i wasn't when in those times of my life that i was talking about previously where i

felt like i was checking all the boxes and everybody was really happy for me and impressed

wasn't writing a lot man yeah i wasn't i wasn't creating a lot of a lot of stuff um i didn't feel

super inspired. And, um, I think there's a correlation. Um, I, there's gotta be a correlation

because now I just feel like it's coming out of me, um, in a way that I didn't, I didn't know I

would experience again. If we were to sit across from a table, um, Moscow mule in my hand, whiskey

in yours. And I'm like, yo, you killed it this year. What are some things that would have to

happen this year for that to be true i i mean i've been working on this album for years i just didn't

know it was this album um so i've just been kind of stockpiling these songs and then in in that

pile emerged this new project um that really desperately wants to exist i'm gonna make it

happen um i'm really excited about it that's gonna be in in this next year in that one year mark i

guess, is that

the finishing touches will be put on this

album that's being planned right

now. We're looking at a couple

sessions in a local

studio here in Philly

in October, where we're going to be

get a couple live musicians

in the room and polish

off these songs and figure out exactly

how they're going to be packaged. It may turn out

to be a

part one, part two situation.

I'm really excited about that concept.

I'm still trying to

figure out the direction of that.

But I think before,

before the end of this year,

there will definitely be a,

a release date announcement accompanied with a,

a single release followed by lots and lots and lots of shows.

That's the next,

the next priority as we are chipping away at these finishing touches of the

album to be really filling up the calendar with more and more live shows,

whether I'm solo or with the band.

um um but that's the other thing is is figuring out who my band is um so i know a lot of musicians

uh watch the show uh auditions on sunday bring your guitar

no i i have such a a great community of of friends many of them have been on the show

Rob Tate is going to be very

involved in the project.

And he's really been

a part of my music since the very beginning.

He's also been a part of my show

from the very beginning.

Yeah, man. He's a great

homie and a great encourager.

And he's just done this.

He's done this a bunch. He's been a part of a lot of bands,

a part of a lot of recording projects

and really has been going out of his

way to make sure that I

not just have what I need

practically speaking, but in my mind and in my heart, he's been really good about calling me up

and just being like, how are you doing? Where are you at with this? He's helping me with the budget.

It's been really great. I'm super grateful for him. But it's Rob Tate. I don't know if he's going

to be in my full-time lineup. If Rob Tate's in, I'm in. That's how I feel. Anything can happen.

So yeah, it's looking like a single release announcement of the record release and then booking a ton of shows and putting the bands together so that when people come out to see me, they know who to expect and what to expect.

And just starting to build a scene around this project because I'm so excited about it.

I'm so excited for it to belong to more people than just me.

All right.

So let's try a little word association, right?

I'm going to ask you two things.

What's more important?

And you can give me kind of a brief explanation, but I'm going to try to chew through them quick.

First one, what's more important, culture or strategy?

Having that serious steps as your strategy or culture?

Like this is the way we do things.

I'm going to say culture.

I imagine one without the other in both directions.

And I wonder what you're strategizing if you don't have the culture.

Right.

Well, when the strategy goes haywire, what do you defer to if you don't have a culture?

In my mind, it kind of harpens back to what we talked about regarding taste, personal style.

You know what I mean?

That's your culture, your personal identity, aesthetic, the decor of your identity, essentially.

The filter through which you rinse your decisions.

Well, I don't know what we're going to do, but these are the four things I believe.

So if these four things are true, then the decision is good.

I can still stand on that and wing it and have a great result.

Yeah.

Even without a very specific strategy worked out.

Great.

Obviously, if you can have both, have both.

Great.

But that wasn't the question.

Yeah.

Okay.

What's more important, talent or work ethic?

Work ethic.

It's interesting because it's similar to the last question.

But, man, I can think of so many people that I've worked with who I think of as some of the most talented people that I know because of their work ethic.

You know, when I met them, they weren't necessarily as developed as they were, you know, when they moved on to, you know, a different musical project or whatever.

um i think work ethic can cultivate talent more than people give it credit for i look at talent

as like your ticket to the dance work ethic is like that's that's how you leave with somebody

you know yeah talent reaching the door you know what i mean yes you can play you can be on the

team work ethic is how you win you know yeah all right so uh so what's more important uh

Speaker 3 00:30:15

quality or volume i think quality yeah i know a bunch of people my instant gut answer i thought

Speaker 3 00:30:24

about it for a second but no i still i think it's quality um i know that volume is how you really get

Speaker 3 00:30:31

your quality noticed yeah man i would rather have a little bit of something good i'm i'm this is a

tough one for me i'm gonna have to go volume as long as there's some quality right like i know

people that have some great songs and they have like four of them and like they have the same

four songs for the last three years.

And then I know people that were like,

and then when you hear the story about people

going on these historic runs and they're

putting out an album every other

six months.

And it's like, yo,

this artist's run was legendary.

It's like, not all those songs were bangers, but they were just

flooding the market. And it was like, it kind of

transcended the music. I think I'm going to go

volume on this one.

Speaker 3 00:31:16

I see what you're saying.

Speaker 3 00:31:18

That's why it gave me a moment of pause.

Speaker 3 00:31:20

But I think if you approach the question that

Speaker 3 00:31:22

um like i was approaching it more as like a one like one or the other um like if you choose

Speaker 3 00:31:29

quality there isn't really much volume if you choose volume there isn't really much quality

Speaker 3 00:31:34

if we're assuming that there's a degree of both in either side um and you think about like okay

Speaker 3 00:31:41

if i have great quality and there's some volume i would still rather be in that situation

Speaker 3 00:31:49

i think than hat being in a situation where there's a ton um of volume but the quality isn't living up

Speaker 3 00:31:58

to the standard of of what it could be you know what i mean i think that's the part where it

Speaker 3 00:32:02

falls apart for me is because i think if you're sad if you're sacrificing your potential quality

Speaker 3 00:32:08

for the sake of greater volume i think you're missing the plot i'd like it's like almost like

volume with the caveat it's at least industry standard you know like okay these across the

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Like if you're,

if you're,

if you're trying to be a rapper and you're trying to like hit the mixtape

circuit,

you're not going to have 30 banging freestyles,

but you're putting out a freestyle every two,

three days.

People are gonna be like,

yo,

dude can rap as opposed to being like one song and then making them star

for three months.

Speaker 3 00:32:35

You know?

Speaker 3 00:32:36

Well,

Speaker 3 00:32:36

I mean,

Speaker 3 00:32:36

in,

Speaker 3 00:32:37

in,

Speaker 3 00:32:39

in the time of like excess and saturation,

Speaker 3 00:32:43

you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 00:32:43

It's like your,

Speaker 3 00:32:44

your,

Speaker 3 00:32:45

your volume is necessary in order for you to even be relevant.

Speaker 3 00:32:49

yeah sure because you just have you have to be on the board so what's more important inspiration or

discipline having like an authentic spark that you're reacting on or the discipline to be like

Speaker 3 00:33:00

all right every day at 9 a.m i get up and write my gut says inspiration um but i think these two

Speaker 3 00:33:07

specifically kind of go hand in hand um i think inspiration is the reward for discipline i think

Speaker 3 00:33:16

you get inspired because you're disciplined you get inspired because you you decide to work you

Speaker 3 00:33:21

decide to sit down and write you decide to go out and have experiences um that you can turn then into

um art or music or whatever it is your medium is yeah it's almost it's almost like uh like can you

create your own luck well you can create more opportunities thus increasing your chances of

Speaker 3 00:33:39

being lucky yeah yeah um i think yeah i think inspiration is so important to me just because i i

Speaker 3 00:33:49

really am am um i'm such a champion of uh the idea being being the first and most important thing

Speaker 3 00:34:00

and then using your data and all of your risk management tools to then improve upon the idea

Speaker 3 00:34:07

rather than starting with like, what does the system say is popular?

Speaker 3 00:34:10

Yeah, I don't see them as opposite though.

Speaker 3 00:34:15

I see them kind of hand in hand.

Speaker 3 00:34:20

Yeah, to have real consistent inspiration, I think you have to have discipline.

Speaker 3 00:34:24

So discipline would be the key in that equation.

With regards to discipline, we talked about this earlier.

With the things you have to do to quote unquote make it, right?

There's three reasons why people, basically three reasons why people don't do what they're

supposed to do, right?

And to be blunt, it's either cowardice, ignorance, or laziness.

They're either don't know what to do, don't feel like doing it, or scared to do it, right?

Which of those do you think is the most prevalent obstacle for artists, either the ones that

you know that are good but don't make it, or just in general, people that have general

talent, genuine talent, but just can't break through?

is it ignorance cowardice or laziness and i know that's a blunt way to put it but

Speaker 3 00:35:12

no it's it's good because it makes it it makes it simple enough for everybody to know where they

Speaker 3 00:35:17

stand um i will tell you right now i think most most of the people that were that we have in our

Speaker 3 00:35:24

mind when we're asking these questions the artists that we know like the people that we've met at

Speaker 3 00:35:28

shows and everything like that i don't think any of these people are lazy man i think people are

Speaker 3 00:35:33

burnt out. I think people are burnt out

Speaker 3 00:35:35

as hell trying to keep up with all of the

Speaker 3 00:35:37

impossible standards. I think it's hard enough

just to create the art itself.

Speaker 3 00:35:41

I know that artists have always

Speaker 3 00:35:44

had to promote

Speaker 3 00:35:45

themselves. There's always extra work

Speaker 3 00:35:47

that you have to do in order to

Speaker 3 00:35:49

make your art seen to people.

Speaker 3 00:35:51

That's not new.

Speaker 3 00:35:53

But to just kind of keep up with

Speaker 3 00:35:55

the pace of everything, I

Speaker 3 00:35:57

think people are super burnt out, man. I think

Speaker 3 00:35:59

the people that get accused of being lazy

Speaker 3 00:36:01

are probably just really freaking tired man you said it was uh lazy ignorant or fear i think fear

Speaker 3 00:36:11

um is is is it for me yeah uh you you personally i think fear is the answer uh to the question

bring me into this question no no what what do you think is your biggest hurdle and i'll answer

mind too so you don't feel like you're on a limb by yourself yeah i have fear i mean i i'm i would

Speaker 3 00:36:35

i would say that that's my that that is my answer what are you afraid of um exposure um like the

Speaker 3 00:36:42

very the very things that come with the life that i want and like being accountable for you know the

Speaker 3 00:36:50

darker aspects of my life and and um you know there's something that comes along with uh being

Speaker 3 00:36:57

vulnerable and and and being honest and real is that people people know you um and um i think

Speaker 3 00:37:04

there's a fear that we all deal with as artists um of being too heavily judged especially now

Speaker 3 00:37:12

right when it's like there's there's a definitive right and wrong way to do everything according to

Speaker 3 00:37:16

some statistic or some expert or whatever based on data and it's like you can't really refute that

Speaker 3 00:37:22

And so it's like, if I don't do it right, I'm wasting my time.

Speaker 3 00:37:26

And I'm, you know, there's all of these metrics that you have to keep in your mind.

Speaker 3 00:37:31

And I understand that's just part of the way things are now.

Speaker 3 00:37:34

But I'll speak specifically to, I guess, the blight of artists in my generation, especially who are just kind of getting started.

Speaker 3 00:37:43

I personally, I feel like I have all this time left to, like, take a couple real big swings at this thing that I want to do with my life, you know.

Speaker 3 00:37:51

but there's also there are voices in me that say you know like yo like you better get it right

Speaker 3 00:37:56

yeah you better get it right with this next project because like you have no business at your age

Speaker 3 00:38:02

you know trying to to put the necessary amount of effort and energy and resources and time

Speaker 3 00:38:09

into something that's going to lead you what down the path that you're going to

Speaker 3 00:38:13

tour regularly how are you going to ever have a family how are you going to do this it's all of

Speaker 3 00:38:17

these expectations that I still carry around, even if I'm not governed by them all the time.

Speaker 3 00:38:22

I have fear of disappointing people. I have fear of what it might cost me to be my authentic self.

Speaker 3 00:38:34

Sacrifice? Yeah.

Speaker 3 00:38:35

Yeah. It's not always

We have to give up.

Speaker 3 00:38:38

The loss isn't always loud. It's not always like, well, I put out this song and now my dad won't

Speaker 3 00:38:44

talk to me kind of it's not always that it's it's sometimes it's like you just feel a shift

Speaker 3 00:38:49

in the atmosphere of your yeah like your world it's like wow like it's just different now yeah

Speaker 3 00:38:55

yeah and i think the difference for me is that the fear was always there but now i value it

Speaker 3 00:39:04

right well the stakes are higher yeah yeah you're not on like it does motivate me and i'm even

Speaker 3 00:39:10

inspired by it you know i mean i write about the fear you know what i mean it's like yeah

Speaker 3 00:39:14

Everything can be a song.

You don't have a luxury of youth.

You go broke at 25, you can win it back by 28.

You go broke at 40, you're like, dude, this might just be it.

Speaker 3 00:39:26

Well, that is what I do love about social media.

Speaker 3 00:39:30

And just the idea that there aren't record labels gatekeeping every aspect of getting your music into the ears of the people that want to hear it.

Speaker 3 00:39:40

And if you have something to say, you can pick up your phone and you can say it.

Speaker 3 00:39:44

If you have a song to sing, you can pick up your phone and you can do it.

Speaker 3 00:39:47

And if you do it right, it'll find a lot of people.

Speaker 3 00:39:51

And I think that's great.

Speaker 3 00:39:51

I think that extends the shelf life of us artists because we will always be able to find our people via whatever the current popular app is.

I'm not even trying to treat people like assets, but you can make a living with your tribe.

You know, if you're creative, if you're loyal, consistent.

Speaker 3 00:40:15

I think that's success to me.

Speaker 3 00:40:16

Yeah.

Speaker 3 00:40:17

Being able to make a living with your tribe and that the tribe will grow as the tribe grows at its own pace.

Speaker 3 00:40:22

You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 00:40:23

It's not necessarily about making the highest number of dollar bills.

Speaker 3 00:40:28

You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 00:40:30

This would be a great time for me to plug a song called High Life that is on the Mets Love Y'all EP.

speaks to this same theme.

Seth is going to tune his guitar and start playing.

That's funny, man. All right. So if you're going to be successful and you're going to create art,

and especially on a commercial level, you have to have a healthy relationship with honesty.

What are some harsh truths that you've either learned or had to accept in the last two, three years recently?

Speaker 3 00:41:08

Some pretty simple, very practical ones that made a huge difference, honestly.

Speaker 3 00:41:14

One was that what I think of as my songs for this record are very, very good demos.

Speaker 3 00:41:30

and that that's a very practical note that kind of opened up my whole mindset in regard to

Speaker 3 00:41:40

something being ready something that I've created being ready and how do I take something from being

Speaker 3 00:41:48

a really good demo to being a song to being a singular entity not just like a stack of

Speaker 3 00:41:55

individual parts um is like at the forefront of my mind right now as i approach you know

Speaker 3 00:42:03

arranging this album or these two albums um into something that's really going to resonate with

Speaker 3 00:42:09

people at the level that that the songwriting demands because i think the songwriting is

Speaker 3 00:42:13

always really strong and i always want the record to do do it justice and we've been able to do some

Speaker 3 00:42:18

really cool stuff in the studio um with christian with mikey um making the songs feel um very alive

Speaker 3 00:42:26

using mainly like a few live instruments played by me and mikey but mostly like loops and samples

Speaker 3 00:42:31

right um so now polishing off the record by bringing in live musicians to to fill out that

Speaker 3 00:42:41

sound and give a little bit more of that live energy came from this idea that like yo these

Speaker 3 00:42:45

songs sound great they sound great these are these are these are releasable um they are very very good

Speaker 3 00:42:53

demos though um and there there's there's some life that still needs to be pumped in um to some

Speaker 3 00:42:59

of them um and that was that wasn't like super easy for me to hear because i spent so much time

Speaker 3 00:43:05

trying to get them just right with you know the um the method yeah and and and the resources at

Speaker 3 00:43:11

our disposal um and man the way mikey has been so generous uh with his time and his talent um to

Speaker 3 00:43:19

help us flesh out these ideas has been just so awesome i'm looking forward for that to continue

Speaker 3 00:43:25

once the studio is back open they're doing an a uh an addition on their house right now so we

really shut up mike bouchard man yeah man what a guy that's a name i haven't heard in a while

Speaker 3 00:43:35

okay the other one one other one was simply um that like my numbers ain't shit and and and with

Speaker 3 00:43:48

that all i mean uh by that uh is simply like hey i know you're proud i know you're proud of getting

Speaker 3 00:43:56

like a thousand streams on your song.

Speaker 3 00:44:00

But it's like, yo, you got to post, man.

Speaker 3 00:44:03

Like you, you, you gotta like make content.

Speaker 3 00:44:06

I know, I know you don't want to, but it's like somebody, some like a thousand people

Speaker 3 00:44:11

listening to your song.

Speaker 3 00:44:12

That's like, most of that's your mom.

Speaker 3 00:44:14

Wait, wait, wait.

So, so the hundred views I'm going to get on this episode isn't a lot.

It's all mom.

I'm not, it's mom.

Like repeat.

Speaker 3 00:44:22

it was like tough to hear but there's also a lot of um relief in it because i think of

Speaker 3 00:44:29

what that what that tells me is that all of my music is still new to most of the world

Speaker 3 00:44:34

right it's brand new yeah they've never heard it you know there's way more than a thousand people

Speaker 3 00:44:40

you know what i mean and most of those streams i'm sure were the same people

turns out 7 billion 999 million still haven't heard your uh yeah all that means is is i have

Speaker 3 00:44:51

all of this art, all of these stories, all of this potential, all of these pieces of music,

Speaker 3 00:44:57

pieces of my life, pieces of my soul that still have the opportunity, so much opportunity to land

Speaker 3 00:45:02

with so many people. I'm so excited about that, man. And because I write the way I write and

Speaker 3 00:45:10

because what's important to me about writing songs is important to me, I don't think I have

Speaker 3 00:45:16

any old songs that wouldn't work now.

Speaker 3 00:45:19

Right. True.

Speaker 3 00:45:20

Not a single one.

Speaker 3 00:45:22

I think you could go back to Dangerous

Speaker 3 00:45:25

and there's still a bunch of songs

Speaker 3 00:45:27

that you could turn around

Speaker 3 00:45:27

and sell to BTS.

For those of you who are just tuning in,

for a brief moment,

we experimented with a boy band project.

And how about this?

Turns out songs were actually pretty good.

They were good.

I don't know.

I think it could probably be some Life in Those Old Dangerous songs, man.

I'm just saying boy bands are back anyway.

Speaker 3 00:45:47

They always come back every like 10, 15 years.

You know what I mean?

Like people that are still boys.

Yeah.

Speaker 3 00:45:54

I wouldn't do them.

I'm just saying.

Yeah.

We'll start a middle-aged man band.

Speaker 3 00:46:00

I just mean that the music itself is relevant.

Speaker 3 00:46:03

Yeah.

Speaker 3 00:46:04

I know.

Speaker 3 00:46:05

I know there's some,

Speaker 3 00:46:06

some,

Speaker 3 00:46:07

some Abington citizens that would,

Speaker 3 00:46:09

that would show up if we said.

Oh yeah.

I'll pack the casuit.

the bar not the theater

i heard you were headlining at the peswick

Speaker 3 00:46:24

where do we get tickets i'd be like oh no it's just like a

it's actually a one drink minimal yeah eight dollars city-wide it's gonna be tight

yeah that's funny that's funny if you could look over your whole all right this is actually a fun

one, right? You can look over your whole music career and implant yourself at a point and then

do something over. Where would you choose to implant yourself and what would you do different?

Speaker 3 00:46:52

I'm trying to figure out a way to say this that doesn't make it feel like a layup, but honestly,

Speaker 3 00:46:57

I would go right back to the beginning or before the beginning, honestly, and just start sooner.

I hate that answer, but elaborate.

Speaker 3 00:47:13

um i just i feel like i spent a lot of my life trying to work my own music

Speaker 3 00:47:21

into this kind of life structure that was kind of set up for me already

Speaker 3 00:47:25

um and try to figure out how i could compromise certain aspects of you know my job my education

Speaker 3 00:47:30

my career so that i could do my music a little bit instead of being like this is what i want to do

Speaker 3 00:47:36

this is what I want to do with my life I knew it was what I wanted to do with my life go all in

Speaker 3 00:47:40

earlier he's very very very young I knew I wanted to be a singer very very young and then it was

Speaker 3 00:47:46

like decades of like doing everything else um almost almost as if like that pursuit wasn't

Speaker 3 00:47:56

really like a viable career pursuit and I needed to be focused on other things before I even took

Speaker 3 00:48:01

that even remotely seriously and so it's like I'm allowed to do the school play I'm allowed to do

Speaker 3 00:48:05

the talent show you know these these kind of pre-approved contexts where you can like scratch

Speaker 3 00:48:11

the itch of wanting to be a singer but like i was writing songs right 12 years old you know what i

Speaker 3 00:48:17

mean 13 years old like incredible songs for those you guys don't know seth actually is i actually

have to grade his songwriting compared to like industry x i think seth is one of the best songwriters

I've ever heard and not being biased. I think he's actually in my top 20, you know, like when I compare him to industry X.

So anybody, I'm not being hyperbolic. His songwriting is incredible.

You were, you, you wrote when you were 13 or 14, you wrote a song about mom and you had a line that was like,

I know your lips don't always say the things your heart wants to reveal.

I wish they made a word bigger than love so I can tell you how I feel.

You wrote that when you were like 13 years old.

I'm like, I was like, that's like the best.

I was like, I'm stealing that to the next journal.

I like signed a Valentine's Day card.

I know your heart don't always say that.

Speaker 3 00:49:15

Yeah.

Speaker 3 00:49:15

You sold it to Hallmark and you got like 10 grand.

I'm still getting world peace from it.

You're a CVS with a card.

Like, did you see?

I'm like, yeah, I don't know where it came from.

i don't know yeah man i i'm not gonna say you were so good then then you were good yeah i don't

Speaker 3 00:49:41

regret doing like community theater or going on tour with the continentals or like any of those

Speaker 3 00:49:45

things those were great experiences for me i i just i think about going to like an art school

Speaker 3 00:49:52

or something like that that that i might have been able to do in like high school or something

Speaker 3 00:49:55

like that and like just sending myself

Speaker 3 00:49:58

in the trajectory to

Speaker 3 00:50:00

to know the aspects of

Speaker 3 00:50:01

this industry and what it means

Speaker 3 00:50:03

to even be a professional artist before I

Speaker 3 00:50:05

even knew that I needed to know these things

Speaker 3 00:50:08

because it's not like that information

Speaker 3 00:50:09

is not available to me now

Speaker 3 00:50:12

but if I could go back

Speaker 3 00:50:13

and do anything differently I just would have

Speaker 3 00:50:15

I would have bet on myself sooner

Speaker 3 00:50:17

so if I could go back and like tell little me

Speaker 3 00:50:19

something be like yo like not everybody's gonna get

Speaker 3 00:50:21

it not everybody's gonna agree

Speaker 3 00:50:23

you know what I mean but like

Speaker 3 00:50:24

you're going to get a completely different future

Speaker 3 00:50:30

than the one you're being prepared for.

Speaker 3 00:50:33

As far as just the landscape of the world,

Speaker 3 00:50:35

the landscape of society,

Speaker 3 00:50:37

and how art is even made and shared.

Speaker 3 00:50:39

You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 00:50:40

If I could talk to pre-streaming,

Speaker 3 00:50:45

pre-AI, pre-social media Seth,

Speaker 3 00:50:48

I'd be like, yo,

Speaker 3 00:50:51

everybody who's doing their part

Speaker 3 00:50:53

to prepare you for the future

Speaker 3 00:50:54

no idea that a completely different future is on the way. Thank you. In your defense,

you're free to extend yourself a little bit of grace because not only does nobody teach you what

it's like to go all in on something, we had nobody showing us what it's like to go all in.

Not only that, society doesn't really celebrate going all in on creative endeavors either.

So even if you did, even if you were this wild 12, 13-year-old with a train ticket and a guitar

strapped to your back everyone would be telling you hey man hey man you gotta keep the grades up

because you gotta make sure you get the real this is cool for now but you gotta make sure you like

society doesn't celebrate going all in on creative endeavors you know so for you to have done that i

mean it's very unrealistic to like we didn't even know what going all in looks like on anything

Speaker 3 00:51:42

you know i thought it was just auditioning for everything i mean when the voice came around and

Speaker 3 00:51:46

idol and america's got talent i did all that stuff yeah just play talent this must be how i do it

Right. I'll play the talent show and there'll be the sketchy guy in the back that gives me my first bad record deal, like in all the movies.

Right. Hey, kids, you really got something. We're going to fly it in New York to teach you.

You got any more songs?

Yeah. Right. And then and the next thing you know, you're a star.

And then, you know, that's that's like the first act of the movie, you know, like in every, you know.

So, so what is, what do we need to know in terms of like getting in touch with you,

connecting with you?

Where can we go find your stuff?

How do we stay plugged in?

Speaker 3 00:52:25

I am going through a little bit of a, not, not really a rebrand, just like a little bit

Speaker 3 00:52:29

of a glow up in my socials.

Speaker 3 00:52:31

I'm going by literally at, I go by Seth Aaron.

Speaker 3 00:52:35

That's how you can find me on Insta.

Speaker 3 00:52:38

There'll be links to everything else on there.

Allow myself to introduce myself.

i go by i go by there yeah i go by there and you gotta write out the whole thing like a tribe

called cliffs that's fantastic yeah yeah that's the best way to find it it's just seth aaron

Speaker 3 00:52:59

um on spotify all the uh all the streaming platforms um seth aaron on youtube um i'm not

Speaker 3 00:53:07

hard to find, but

Speaker 3 00:53:10

there will be a lot more

Speaker 3 00:53:11

to see in the next

Speaker 3 00:53:14

coming months. And if you are in the

Philadelphia area, definitely

make sure you check in. Definitely

play shows at Foster Club.

What's the other

spot? Oh, Dawson's.

Dawson's my spot, man.

Yeah, he plays Dawson's fairly often. So

if you are in the area, make sure you

send him a message. That way we can keep you plugged in when

he's actually playing live shows. You don't want to miss these.

And while they're still inexpensive,

make sure you come out

before your tickets are super expensive.

You're always going to be on the list, my guy.

All right.

Well, seriously, thank you so much

for making time for me, man.

I love you, brother.

I hope all your dreams come true.

Speaker 3 00:53:51

I love you too, man.

Speaker 3 00:53:52

This is so great, man.

I'm honored and tickled to be on this show, man.

I'm in very good company.

The rest of you, thank you so much for tuning in.

Make sure you check out Seth,

Seth Aaron everywhere.

If you like what you heard here today

like any of his music, tell somebody who loves music.