59. “My Gut Has Never Led Me Astray” – KĪ on Trusting Yourself as an Artist

whenever I trusted my own gut,

it's never,

it's never led me wrong.

And I always feel good at the

end of the day.

And I just had to keep,

even like when you're in a room with songwriters or something

like that, and you really feel strongly about something, it's hard to be like the one person

be like,

but I don't,

you know, like that just doesn't feel like me and being that person to do

that. But it's like,

it's really been the one thing I think that's like consistently throughout

everything that has never led me astray and has always like taken me back on course to where like,

I can feel like everything I'm releasing is authentic and my actions and everything is just,

it's always like my little North Star that I can rely on.

Today on Love's Music, I speak with Kai.

Kai is a pop sensation from Seattle.

Totally caught me

off guard with her new single,

Respare.

I heard it, instantly fell in love,

had her on the show

to share her story with you all today.

I hope you enjoy.

If you like what you've heard so far,

make sure you like comment subscribe i certainly value your feedback all right so up next all the

way from seattle we have kai so you agreed to do the show i listened to your stuff for like

maybe like two minutes and then i had somebody else book that i had like a get another guest

coming on so i listened to your stuff for about 30 seconds started planning for the next guest

did the interview and then four or five days later i'm sitting there in the car and i'm like driving

i think i'm on my way to the gym in the morning okay and i'm sitting there humming i'm like

and i'm like i have this song stuck in my head i'm like what am i singing right now right

you don't even know it yeah it's fine it's five days after i listened to your stuff for only about

90 seconds like literally all the way through the song the song stuck in my head so now i'm

planning for your episode and i put the song on i was like oh my gosh i've been singing her song

for the last like two days didn't even know it was your song that's good when you get an earworm

That's a good sign.

That's hilarious.

I'm glad it sticks.

Yeah,

right?

Very singability, repeatability.

Yeah.

You can check with that song.

The song that I'm referring to for the audience out there,

it's called Respare.

It came out April of this year.

Kind of just like an indie pop tune.

No different than the stuff that's on the radio.

You're not doing the exact same thing,

but it's just a mainstream pop hit.

It's called Respare.

I'm hoping,

is that going to be a part of a bigger project?

All of my songs are a little bit linked together by kind of a common theme of not losing hope.

And it's never too late to start again.

And all these things that I'm sure we'll talk about later,

but our themes in my life where that's just like the stuff that interests me is singing about life and ups and downs of all of it and not losing hope,

despite all the challenges and things you've been through.

I've been through a lot in my life.

And I feel like I've had 10 lifetimes to this point.

So it's like,

it's kind of what I like to write about more than like relationship songs.

I feel like those stuff is there's so much out of it already.

And it's just not relatable to me as much.

So that's always what I like to write about.

So they all kind of link together in that way.

And I always tend to,

no matter what I start writing, I'm going to write this like super

upbeat pop song that end up like something like that.

So it's like my soul just kind of tells me what to do.

And I'm like, okay,

I like that.

um but yeah i i found the word respire i don't know when i had it in my list of song titles i

just keep on my phone and i was just kind of going through it and seeing what i liked and like oh what

is that so i forgot what the meaning of it was and it's basically an old 16th century i forget

what century it was um word that just means um return to hope after after a period of hopelessness

basically.

So it's kind of like this,

you're in this kind of in the trenches and you're returning

back to yourself and getting hopeful again and kind of seeing the light again.

That was kind of it.

And so I really just shaped the song around the title because I loved that word.

And I just thought

it was a really cool word that people don't really use anymore either.

So I'm like,

my mom's an English

major. So like, let's bring you some stuff.

She loved that.

Yeah.

But yeah,

yeah.

You definitely

do that, right? You have pop sensibilities because you produce your own stuff too.

So you make very

accessible music,

right?

Some of the productions,

I don't want to say it's sparse,

but you're very

deliberate,

not huge elaborate tracks,

but your songwriting is like gourmet indie songwriting.

One of my favorite lines you have is like, we're swimming further deep down a loveless sea.

Yeah, into a loveless sea.

We're all drowning because no one wants to save the enemy.

I'm like,

That's not a pop song.

That's like heart-wrenching

desperation.

But it's in

this beautiful, easily accessible

song.

I like that.

Those songs that have heart-wrenching lyrics

but the beat's kind of like, woo!

It's like that juxtaposition.

Mine isn't that much, but I like

having that juxtaposition too.

I don't love listening to

super sad songs unless I'm like

really need to cry

and have a release.

But otherwise,

It's like, that's not really what I listen to.

So all of my songs, I really want to have deep lyrics about those things,

but also usually

at the end, at least have some feeling of hopeless,

hopefulness that it's like, you

know, you go through all these things,

but there's still brighter days ahead and you

haven't had your best day yet and all that kind of stuff.

So I've always just,

yeah, I like to go deep,

but not like desperation deep,

you know?

Right.

So when you pen that lyric about drowning in like a loveless sea because no one wants

to save the enemy.

Was it like social commentary or was it coming from a place that was a little

bit more personal?

Because I read it both ways.

Yeah, it's funny. I hear a lot of people when they

talk about my music and when they,

you know, how they feel when they listen to it. And I'm like,

oh,

that's cool. I didn't even think of it that way. Like,

it's really interesting already that

I'm already here and like, oh, I don't think of this as being a sad song. Other people like it's

a very emotional, sad song. I'm like, oh, interesting.

I love that because that's kind of

that's what art is like you interpret it how you want to interpret it yeah for love with c i i

wrote that song probably gosh three or four years ago now three years ago it was one of my first

songs and um that one definitely at the time uh definitely was like social commentary and

everything happening in the world and just the rise of all this racism homophobia um you know

sexism everything it was just amplified like everything just felt like everybody hated each

other for whatever reason you don't think like I do you don't I'm not going to help you because

you feel this way it was just like a lot of divisiveness so it was really just from a place

of that of just feeling like the imagery I have in my head for that is like you know all these

people are in this water and they're all trying to stay above water and tread water and it's like

you just read your hand out to your left hand side you can help each other get out to the beach

like you're fine and everyone's like i don't want to touch i don't want to talk to you because you

think this i don't want to like it's just that individualistic mindset that you know we've and

now it's like that doesn't even scratch the surface of how i feel about things going on

right now um but it was like very simplistic lyrics compared to stuff that i've been writing

even before that other demos i had and i was kind of worried about that because i'm like

it's kind of like a basic song because it's so repetitive.

But I kind of then learned that that's what makes it so like pure and innocent

and like just how my feelings are of it.

Like it really is that simple too of like what's going on in the world.

And it's simply fixed by love and kindness and all that kind of stuff that

is just hard for people to attain to.

But yeah, that was kind of what it was about for me personally.

Yeah.

Well, sometimes less is more.

I feel like it didn't need like a ton of layers,

you know, like the message handed.

It resonated.

Knee jerk reaction.

I thought it was a commentary on loneliness and isolation.

So I was like semi,

right?

Yeah, totally.

It could absolutely be that.

Yeah.

Which is, yeah, exactly.

It goes hand in hand for sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it delivered.

Yeah.

Obviously you're saying,

are you producing your entire tracks yourself as well?

So I really started this backwards,

which is really funny.

so I've always been into music it was always my thing and um ever since I was a kid like I would

just go out in our yard listen to music dance sing top my lungs like with my portable cd player

dancing around and it's skipping and it's just like that like that was just my life my family's

always been super into music and so it's always been a really big part of me and um during that

time when I was younger um my family are domestic violence survivors so there was a period of time

for a pretty big chunk of my childhood that was dealing with that.

And that was extremely traumatic

and hard. And it'll take five hours to get through everything. So I'm just going to surface level

through it all. But it was very... Yeah. So that was a really hard time where after a while,

I just kind of lost my love for all of it. I just stopped singing. It was just a very traumatic time

for everybody.

But through it, we still... Music was always a thing that we would go for car rides,

listen to music, and have dance parties.

Yeah.

Anyway, my mom fought tirelessly against a system that really wanted to keep us seeing the abusive

person.

And she won the case.

And so we got our freedom and our safety after like many years of

her fighting this system.

And after that, it was kind of like, what do we do now?

Because everything

was just like, we're in this small bubble.

And now you're like, oh my gosh,

like there's people just

out here living their life normally.

Like, how do you adjust into that?

Once we got out of that,

It was kind of like,

yeah, readjusting to normalcy.

I developed a lot of anxiety and PTSD from that.

And so it was really just working on kind of rehealing ourselves through that.

And a couple of years after that,

me and my mom ended up being caretakers for my grandma.

And after a little while,

that situation also became a very emotionally abusive situation

that we were not fully able to get out of because we were the sole caretaker.

And so it was kind of like this thing of like,

as soon as we would start to heal and start,

then we'd get thrust back into something that wasn't our fault.

That wasn't like just these things that would happen.

So I,

because some of the things were a little bit similar and we were just trying to navigate

all that.

And then I just kept my anxiety was just getting worse and worse and worse.

Music is always going through all of this and has always been my passion.

But I just had all these different things.

But anyway,

just all of that to say that I just kept developing worse and worse anxiety and all that stuff.

So it was always my dream to be a singer,

be a musician.

And I,

you know, grew up on Cheetah Girls and High School Musical and like just like what you imagine being like a pop star.

And I'm just like, that's just the dream,

you know.

And then as my anxiety kept getting worse and worse, I'm like,

this is just something I just can't even imagine pursuing.

Like, I just I could barely go for walks without having a panic attack.

Like, it was so severe.

And then I we finally got out of like all those situations and we were good.

And so me and my mom were like trying to figure out like how to build our life again.

And so we were finally like healing and getting better and better each day.

And during COVID,

it was,

you know, everything shut down.

And I was like, I've done a lot of work. I feel a lot better

now.

Maybe I should try and pursue this music thing,

you know, now that everything's kind of

like quieted down and see what happens.

So I got a ukulele and I just started practicing that

I wanted to learn guitar,

but I was like,

that seems like a lot to try and start right off the

bat.

So let me start with something smaller.

So I started playing ukulele and then I started

posting covers.

And then this management team out of Nashville saw some of my covers and they were

like,

Hey,

we'd love to work with you. We love your sound. We'd love to like develop you as an

artist and i was like this is a scam like there's i know you get those things all the time on social

media like how much yeah exactly yeah so um we did like a thorough vetting process i waited like a

year to like fully agree we had like a lot of phone calls and i flew out to nashville to meet

with the manager and um finally we're like yeah like there's no other time i just i'm scared but

it.

Like, I don't want to have any regret of being like, what if, you know,

and this is like the right

time in my life to be able to do it and like actually be able to have an opportunity to follow

my dreams. Finally,

I signed with them.

I worked with them for like a year. I did vocal training,

songwriting,

worked on demos.

And at the end of about the year,

I was sent to a week of songwriting

in Nashville that I did with different songwriters every day.

And then after that had demos,

I sent demos of the songwriting trip songs that we created and also my own stuff to the team.

And then they blindly listened to it and chose which two songs they think I should produce to

be my first two singles.

So we did that. And so the first two songs on the list were actually both

ones that I had written. So the first one was Loveless Sea.

And the second one was another song

that I had written that kind of had the same vein

of that it was more of that like acoustic-y,

a little bit slower, more emotional vibe.

And I at the time was like,

I want to have a little bit of both

as my first two singles.

So it was Loveless Sea.

And I was like, let's do Symphony of Sadness

because it's kind of like the opposite.

And I wanted to do both.

And at the end of my songwriting sessions,

one of the songwriters was this guy named Kyle Reynolds.

And he was pulled in last minute

because someone had to leave the session.

Someone had to call out last minute.

And so they're like, well, he's a pop singer.

Like, let's have him do the songwriting session with you.

I didn't know who he was at the time.

And I was like,

sure,

sounds good.

Let's do it.

So we wrote Symphony of Sadness with Kyle Reynolds and Kaylian Lowe,

who is this other songwriter.

And as I started working with him, I'm like, you're a producer,

too.

They have some producers that they work with in the team,

but they also work with him, too.

And I'm like, I would he's in L.A. a lot closer to me than Nashville.

And I'm like, I would love to have him produce because he was kind of doing a raw production of Symphony of Sadness in the songwriting session.

I'm like, I really like your style, like the artist he works with.

I want him to produce these songs.

And so the team was like, yeah,

like whatever you want, that's fine.

Like, let's do that.

And so Kyle ended up being the one who produced Loveless Sea and Symphony of Sadness.

So I went to L.A.

to produce both of those with him.

So I wrote Lovelessy on my own and then Symphony Sadness was a co-write.

The rest of the stuff has been my own production and songwriting and everything like that.

But that's basically,

I started out working with a producer and now I've like gradually

gone to that I'm doing my own thing because,

I mean, when you're an independent artist,

it's really hard to afford that every time you want to make music.

So I'm like, I got to learn how to do this on my own.

First and foremost,

I'm so sorry for what you went through.

Thank you.

Abuse is,

I don't want to just like gloss over that.

Yeah,

yeah.

For anything that you've been through,

my heart goes out to you.

I appreciate that.

Thank you very much.

Yeah.

You kind of did do it backwards, like you said, right?

You went out, you did like the big,

you did like the Nashville pilgrimage.

Yep.

And then I recorded,

but now you're doing yourself.

Do you have a tendency or an affinity for one over the other?

Like, do you like writing by yourself versus the producer or vice versa?

What do you what do you prefer?

I've always done better solo writing.

I and I I'm really glad that I had that experience because it's like I think everybody should

have doesn't have to be at that level,

like just have an experience of writing with somebody

or creating with somebody else,

because it does help you like get other ideas because

we can still be in our own heads all the time.

So like it's it's very valuable.

But I think I've always just I'm a very introspective person.

I'm a very independent person.

And I just like I like I like to be quiet and just kind of like go inward and create in that way.

So like it was hard for me.

And especially being my first time, I hadn't sung in front of anyone before besides my vocal coach and going into a situation.

And you're in a room of at the time you think like, oh, my gosh,

you know, these people are so much better than me.

And these people are.

And like,

it's hard to put yourself in that equal position,

which is like you're an artist.

you are,

but it's just, it's just hard to do that when you're new to it all.

And,

um,

it was,

it was an amazing experience.

Everyone was so nice and we did create some,

some great stuff,

but I think overall,

yeah, I find it a lot easier to write on my own and I just,

I just prefer it.

I just,

I'm a lot faster when I do it on my own. And yeah,

me too.

Like, I mean, I like the

community of like hanging out with musicians,

but there's nothing to ever be just like me and my

engineered door locked buried in a project you know yeah i'm out like six hours later with a song

yeah i feel weird singing other people's words even if it's like them talking about something

that i want to talk about this personal to me it still feels like not as authentic as like this is

just raw from my soul 100 and like exactly how i'm feeling right now but i mean yeah well you

mentioned things like things being hard like i want to i wanted to ask you like what are because

there's two types of challenges, right?

There's our, there's our inner challenge,

like our intrinsic challenges,

the things that block us. Yeah.

And then there's just the stuff we have to deal with like outside,

just like external factors that have no control of. Yeah.

What's your biggest challenge internally?

And then also what's your biggest challenge that just the industry,

just the biggest headache you have to deal with.

Oh,

what do I choose?

There's so many options.

Goodness sakes.

Everything challenges.

Speaker 3 00:18:26

Yeah, I'd say everything.

i'm like i'm an artist yeah every day it's a little bit of suffering you gotta suffer for

your art um yeah i think internally it definitely is i'm a severe perfectionist like to a very bad

degree and i think it is good because it shows in the music hopefully that it's i take it very

seriously and i don't ever want it to be like oh well this sounds good for where you're at like you

know like i want it to sound like stuff that you hear on the radio or stuff that's out there already

and that is kind of my number one goal but it also comes with a lot of like i don't know what i'm

doing fully right now you know like every time i make a song i'm then i'm youtubing okay how do

you do this on this track how do you do this which is awesome it's a great feeling but it's also like

you just are listening to reference tracks by people that have like all these producers and

songwriters and all engineers and all and then you're like expecting yourself to do that in your

room with like one dot it's like yeah you're you're holding your yourself up to these like

industry giants yeah absolutely and if you're just gonna like turn on a keyboard and sound like that

yeah a hundred percent and my mind just can't really separate that still so it's like it's

always a battle of um meeting yourself where you're at and being okay with that and just working to

the best ability that you can in that moment.

And each time you make something new, it's going to

get better and better and better.

And just being patient with that process.

But I think I'm not

a patient person with myself.

I'm patient with everything else and the way things unfold.

But

I always just am like, well,

why can't you do that yet?

Why can't you do this faster? Why can't you

do it?

It just comes with the process. But I think that's definitely the biggest struggle is that.

and of course imposter syndrome that everybody has and um just like i want to just be able to

sit down and be like okay let's have a positive mindset going into this and just like do our best

that's kind of the thing that i'm trying to work on a lot i i'm starting to deal with a lot of

burnout um just from and we'll probably talk about too but like social media stuff and everything

that you have to do as an independent artist while also being creative and finding inspiration.

And it was just getting pretty severe where I was like starting to get very depressed about things

and feeling like I'm not doing as best as I want to be doing.

And I'm like,

a lot of people are

talking about this now.

And I think it's the right time is just like you and everybody says it,

but you need to enjoy the process.

That's number one thing. There's no success at the end of the

road that's going to make all the process and suffering worth it you're going to maybe be happy

for a couple days and then you're back at it and you're miserable again like i really am just trying

to get myself into the position of just being super happy and good with whatever happens during the

day and just enjoying the process and also enjoying my life and having it just be a positive experience

so that's what's most important to me right now yeah yeah um here's a frame that i thought was

really helpful. I was speaking to an artist. His name was AB.

And yeah, I actually knew him

personally.

And we were doing music together,

but he really kind of flicked a switch and started

getting a lot of streams, started getting some traction. He was torn out in LA a little bit.

And I asked him and I was 11 or 12 million streams now.

I mean, not nothing. Yeah,

that's amazing.

And I was like,

tell me about the shift you made from making maybe more

experimental music to making mainstream music. And he was like, there is no shift.

He was like,

all the music you're making is experimental

it's just that

one hits because it happened to be accessible

so the idea that you're going to make an industry

song it's like no no

you keep making experimental music

Speaker 3 00:22:18

oh that's so true

like viciously and like violently

authentic to yourself

and then one hits

like it's all experimental

there is no making that song

that's such a good perspective

it's so true yeah I think

it's really easy to get in that headspace

of like, okay, I'm going to make,

I'm going to look at the top 40 and I'm going to make a song that

sounds like that. Cause that's what's popular right now. And it's like,

everybody does that.

And I've always,

even if I've tried, which I really haven't,

even in like when I'm making

demos,

if I try, it's like, it just doesn't feel right. Like I, I do trust my gut with so many

things.

And that's like the number one guide of anything I'm doing. Even my mind's telling me

whatever I know what feels good when I'm listening to it or what doesn't and what feels authentic to

me.

And anytime I try to do something like if it doesn't feel authentic,

I cannot,

I can't promote

that.

It feels weird.

It doesn't feel like it's yourself,

you know?

So I,

yeah, I love that.

That's such a great perspective.

Yeah,

absolutely.

You also have, you also have incredible instincts

too.

Cause I mean,

needless to say, and I don't want to ruffle any feathers,

but I think by far

the best song on your catalog is the song you did by yourself.

You know, that was the one that I

kept singing that was the one that got stuck in my head that i was like oh my god like this is

like is she like is she like touring already like what is and and that was the one you did by

yourself and then and then it's all about that song right you hold that song up and then you put it

next to your profile and you're like oh yeah that face that song those photos this it all just kind

of went like this and i was like so it's so not only was it a good song but it's also a great

extent of you i love your instinct you're right what your gut is telling you is right that means

so much i that song was a headache and a half because it was that was my first absolutely solo

production i the chase was another song that i did produce like all the vocals and all that kind of

stuff but it was a track that i bought from another producer and um i just loved the track and i was

kind of like this is fun i just want to do something for fun and it was my way of like

like slowly getting into learning self-production where like if I was just gonna be like okay

produce something on your own now it just my mind would not do well with that so I'm like let's just

gradually step back from working with a producer and now okay I'm just gonna try doing vocal

production and then now I'm gonna try doing a whole track myself and um it had a totally different

way that it started and I just kind of kept molding it and um learning with it and it was

And the hardest part for me is like saying, okay, it's done.

That's the hardest thing for me.

I am so bad at that.

And not even like I want to add anything else to it, but just that feeling of being like,

I'm not going to touch it anymore.

It is what it is.

Maybe it's not absolutely 100% perfect, but I'm going to like suffer extremely if I keep

trying to be this dead horse.

And then you got to send your baby out into the water,

right?

You're like molding and protecting.

after you like all right now i'm like it's the world now yes it's such a vulnerable feeling

especially when it's just you like that's like you have nothing else to fall back on then and it

and it's you know you listen to it like 50 times when you're mixing and mastering it and by that

you're like i don't even know what it sounds like i i don't know how anyone's gonna like all you're

listening for is your own mistakes so you can make it sound good but then it's like that's all you

here um but i will say my my mom who has kind of become my manager now too because we are just like

best friends we work together so well and she's a part of any background thing that i do in my music

she's always been there so supportive and she is my other ear that i always have her listen like

okay what do you think about this then she'll say oh why don't you try doing this so like

anything that you think sounds good is probably 95 of her being like do that do this and i'm like

yeah you're right it's just really helpful to have another set of ears when you get to that point

Get her on the payroll.

Exactly.

As soon as I start having a payroll,

that would be great.

Speaker 3 00:26:18

You might have a payroll.

Speaker 3 00:26:22

That's priority one.

It all kind of makes sense now.

Like you talk about perfectionism,

you talk about producing yourself

and anybody who does music knows it's tedious,

it's hours,

a lot of loneliness,

a lot of long hours by yourself.

When you get in those quiet moments

and the self-doubt creeps in

and the perfectionism keeps in

and you're comparing yourself to people with billions of streams and artists that are on

world tours.

How do you address those darker thoughts?

Like, what are you telling yourself

in those dark times?

I'm still trying to figure that out. Honestly,

that's something that I'm

now within the last, honestly, probably like week,

I've just tried to like not have that day be the

end all be all.

Like I've had it happen so many times now where I'll be just at complete desperation.

Like I can't write anything.

I can't figure out what sound I want to make.

And you just start spiraling.

And usually when it gets to that point now,

I'm like,

you got to take a break because

you're not going to make anything good with this kind of mindset.

Like people can hear that through your music that you're like,

you know,

so that's really,

that's really accurate.

That's really smart.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's, it's,

and it's not,

then it's not fun.

Like then I'm not enjoying it and I'm just like trying to push myself through it.

And I think a lot of the way that life is presented now is that you push through everything and you got to grind and you got to like push through all this stuff.

And like that's the way to get art to come through.

And I'm like, I just not found that to be the case for me personally.

I think a lot of people aren't really finding that either.

And so,

like I said before, like my priority now is to enjoy it and have fun doing it because this is my biggest passion and job.

And I now I'm just like,

today,

it's kind of a wash.

And you found something that maybe,

okay, you found what you don't want to do.

So that's good.

That's still something.

And then start fresh the next day.

And usually then I'll have some epiphany.

I'm like, oh, this is the best thing I've ever written the next day.

Like,

it's just you can't put those like finite things on it of being like,

this is it.

And this is how it's going.

But I mean, I think it's something I definitely still struggle with.

And my poor mom is also my therapist.

Speaker 3 00:28:28

and just like i just like mom i can't do it this is so bad manager music critic

Speaker 3 00:28:35

she really needs a heavy salary like this is really bad but she's just she's the only person

who can really get me out of that and being like it's okay we'll just start fresh like you have it

you you got it it's just today's not the right day to do it and so right i'm practicing that

really recently i'm just being like okay i'm gonna go outside i'm gonna go for a walk i'm gonna go

do something else completely different and give my mind a break and then i'll probably come back to

it feeling a lot better you also talked about burnout which i think is super important i actually

had a guest on her name was uh ali uh shout out ali mac too if you're watching yay ali

she was um i mean she she'd been been to the mountaintop she was doing sound engineering

for uh post malone oh my gosh wow and she was like uh and she did the whole la thing went out

there trying to make it and had a decent amount of success.

And she was like the one thing that

people never really consider.

It's always like, make it at all costs.

Sacrifice everything to be

a star.

Get all the accolade.

And she was like,

nobody really ever considers,

well, how do you

want to get there?

And if you really stop to think, well, what environment do I want to be making

music in?

Who do I want to be making music with? Who do I want to be around while I'm creating?

Are the relations in my life,

are they stoking my creativity or are they like hindering it?

Am I being judged or am I being encouraged?

And you got to consider that it really is not a sprint.

It's a marathon.

And if you really consider the,

I guess, the environment,

like the totality of like the

people that you're on this journey with,

the world of difference.

Because a lot of people don't really consider that.

They'll be like, oh, I'll sacrifice sleep.

I'll sacrifice health.

I'll sacrifice my relationships for the Grammy.

yeah and it's like no like you gotta you gotta think about who do you want around you because

you're gonna get there exactly you know you don't want to be standing there alone yeah and that was

her antidote to burnout she's like the minute i start prioritizing my health yeah my environment

my relationships my you know intake of you know substances you know yeah complete complete game

changer it's so it's so true it's it's so sad how everything has kind of been ingrained into

everybody's minds that that is like the only way to be successful and i mean you don't also don't

know how much money people are putting into their music at that level that's like it's insane it's

like you can't judge that by anything realistic on like what you're doing in your own journey

is yeah it's there's a lot of smoke and mirrors to everything and and i just yeah that's the thing

that bothers me the most i think is is that mindset of like that grind grind grind and sacrifice

everything because you buy it i mean i didn't know anything when i started that's all i'm seeing

videos about you know everyone's just saying oh you're not doing i open my phone and i'm like i

just want to relax for a second scroll for a second you know and it's like you need to get out you need

to make a video you need to it's everywhere it's omnipresent and it really takes a lot to find that

like crack to go through and be like wait this does not feel good to me this is like

leading to burnout it's and then you're not going to create anything you're proud of

so it's um i completely agree with her on that that that is absolutely what you need to do like

enjoy your life and your health and make sure you're good and then you can create from that.

But otherwise,

yeah, nothing good comes from it.

With you being so kind of entrenched in your own

project,

can you still listen to music objectively,

like hear a new song? Like, oh, this is dope.

Are you are you too much of like an artist artist where you're like? I love that question.

No,

I can't.

This is one of the biggest things I've just been coming to realize.

I literally don't I

don't really like on the like if i'm like hanging out with people i'm like we have like the radio

on i were like listening to me that's fine but like i don't listen to music really unless it's

an artist that i really love and they came out with something new you know then i will but i

don't really listen to music like like passively yes exactly yeah yeah i can't anymore and anytime

i do now it's like usually more so it just opens up the floodgates to my own creativity where i'm

like oh that's a cool sound oh i like that or like oh this is a cool like you know just like it gives

me it makes my mind switch to artist mode and if i'm not in a place where i can like execute that

then it's like very overwhelming and stressful so i really have to like if i'm at my desk yeah

i really just started if it's like stuff i like to listen to like frank sinatra

knacking cole and all that like i like to listen to that and put that on in the background

um easy listening stuff but anything more that's like in my wheelhouse of what i make i just i can't

and i'm listening to like each like oh how'd they produce that or i wonder what they use i wonder

what plug-in that is i would have just like you can't it's so funny i did i didn't see that coming

but yeah yeah yeah so you can't so you can't like listen to like i it took me a while to be able to

listen to music passively and to the point where it's like i could hear a song and like cry or i

and hear a song you get like fired up again yeah yeah so and it's not yeah that part of it kind of

sucks you know yeah i mean it's it's cool on the one hand yeah exactly it depends i mean it depends

on the day too if i'm like doing really well in my own music and i feel like oh i'm on a good track

or something then i'll like i still listen to music a lot but it's like certain times where i feel like

i can otherwise there's i just know when it's good and when i when i'm like i'll get too lost in the

sauce and I can't I can't focus yeah so you don't have like so you don't have like music junk food

you know you just put it on for like a vibe I mean I do sometimes but I'd say not as much as I used

to I mean because before I was making music and all I did was that I would just put on music

constantly and listen to music constantly and like imagine that it's you singing it and you're making

these music videos not like all that kind of stuff but now that it's what I'm actually doing

it's a little bit like there definitely are time I listen to music all the time but it's more so

from the perspective of like educating myself

than like just passively listening.

You obviously do a lot of things very well.

If you were to choose one skill to refine

and try to get really good at,

what would that be?

I think production for sure.

I never thought of myself as doing it

because it was always a little bit overwhelming to me.

It was like, I love songwriting and I love singing

and that's already enough to work on.

And it just seemed like this whole other unattainable world to step into that was like,

how could I ever learn how to do that?

But really just came out of necessity that I'm like, I, you know, I can't afford to pay anybody,

but I have these songs I want to make and I don't want to wait for anybody.

And I don't want to just be like sitting,

you know, like,

OK,

I'll just like go work a ton and then make one song and then try and promote it.

And then like,

especially now, you know, like things do need to be pumped out,

not to the

degree that it's like severe,

but, you know, you still want to be consistent.

And it just wasn't realistic and it isn't realistic.

So I'm like, well,

I have no choice.

So I'm just going to try it.

And then I just kind of I fell in love with it.

I love it because I can just fully create from myself.

Like, I don't have to.

I have a people pleaser.

So when I'm like producing with someone, I'm like,

I like that.

But what do you think?

Like that's always a hard thing.

Like I can always,

my gut, like I said,

leaves me every way.

So I'm like, I don't like that, you know,

but it's always like, I have to like,

I feel like I have to kind of like sugarcoat it or whatever.

And I'm just like, it's just nice to just be my own boss

and be like, okay, change that.

And I can just do it right there

and do it at my pace and learn it.

So I think that's honestly one of my biggest passions now

is like being able to produce

and learning how to do that at a high degree.

And yeah, that's definitely what I'm focusing on.

So on this last run of music,

right, when you really started taking this seriously till now,

what's the most valuable lesson you've learned?

Oh,

I would say trusting your gut.

I think especially because I was working with so many people and my producers,

the guy Kyle,

who I was working with, amazing,

like somehow had this amazing experience with the producer

right off the bat, which is, I think,

really rare.

So it's,

but still there's like always creative decisions and things that like other people might,

like people on my team or something might say,

well, why don't you do like something like that

or whatever? But I'm like, that just doesn't feel like me as an artist.

And so it's always that like

back and forth.

And what I've just come to learn is that like,

whenever I trust in my own gut,

it's never led me wrong.

And I always feel good at the end of the day.

And I just had to keep,

even like when you're in a room with songwriters or something like that,

and you really feel strongly about something,

it's hard to be like the one person and be like,

but I don't,

you know,

like that just doesn't feel like me and being that person to do that.

But it's like,

it's really been the one thing I think that's like consistently throughout

everything that has never led me astray and has always like taken me back on

course to where like,

I can feel like everything I'm releasing is authentic and my actions and

everything is just,

it's always like my little North star that I can rely on.

What's one of the best compliments that someone's ever paid you?

Something that somebody said to you that like really stuck with you?

Probably you.

You were like,

give it a couple of years and you're not even going to need a day job anymore.

I think genuinely,

I think that anyone,

anytime anybody like talks about your music in that way where it feels professional, it feels like well done.

and people see that,

I think that's probably one of my biggest,

like,

it makes me take a deep breath

and be like, okay,

I know I am on the right track,

you know?

Like, I have so much to learn. I have so

much that I want to do,

but like,

that I am doing well and I'm, what I am putting out there is being

received the way I want it to be received and everything feels cohesive as an artist and all

that. That's always a struggle.

So hearing people say that is like,

yeah, that's one of the biggest

compliments i think for sure like being unexpected that it's at this level already or something like

that that's that's huge yeah yeah yeah it certainly is what is something that you're

proud of that maybe has nothing to do with music well me and my mom had an earth-friendly apparel

company um during the time that we were taking care of my grandma because we needed something

else we wanted to after we came out of the case and the dv situation like we wanted we didn't really

know how to adapt into normal life but we wanted to do something that made a difference

And we couldn't get like full time jobs because we were taking care of her.

So we're like, what can we kind of do in between?

And environmentalism has always been a huge part of our lives.

And what we built just again,

bootstraps.

We've always been a bootstrap family.

Like, let's just like no one.

We're not going to rely on anybody to make us successful.

We're not going to rely on anybody.

We're just going to like try it.

That's always the thing is like, let's just try and see what happens.

And so I think it was 2012 when we started.

We actually launched at Sundance Film Festival.

when they had like celebrity gifting suites um and there was a lady we knew there and she was like

yeah we'd love to have your stuff there and like kind of do some gifting little things that people

basically they like walk through during the um festival and then they can like choose something

they like or whatever it's really fun and so that was like where it started and having those

experiences was like crazy like how are we here at sundance film festival with our clothes that we

made and designed and talking about like all the positives of like environmentalism and the fast

fashion industry and ways you can give back and donate and all these kinds of things and um it was

really crazy there's been so many experiences like that we're like how how did that happen that's just

totally wild but i think all of what we've built through that we've done like so many trash cleanups

and and all the stuff that we've done to give back to the planet and give back to our communities

and stuff i think that's something that i am extremely proud of and um yeah that's and it

still is like a huge part of our lives and you know any we just recently were driving by this

area after new year's and it's right by the water and it was littered with confetti and we're like

we weren't that was not our plan for the day it was to go do a trash cleanup we didn't have any

of our stuff but we're like i can't drive away from this like it's all gonna just like end up

the water so we just it was like in the evening yeah we just end up spending like two hours with

our hands in the rain just like picking up the confetti and afterwards you just feel like good

that you had an actionable change that you just made like it's very rare that you can actually see

that like that quickly like oh that's a difference that i just made in an hour and it was just us too

so those kinds of things i'm i'm yeah i'm really proud about that stuff yeah yeah um i find that

and as I'm sure you experienced this too,

for every person that's making great music,

I know somebody with crazy talent

that's just not moving forward,

or I know somebody with crazy hustle

that just doesn't have the talent.

Yeah.

What do you think is more important,

talent or like the work ethic,

like the hustle part of it?

I think talent for sure.

I think the hustle gets you so far

and it definitely does.

But then what I've seen

just objectively from people that I don't know,

but like just kind of what I've seen

is like a lot of people will have that where they're like you know posting your day they're

doing all these stuff and they probably are extremely successful like in and how they want

to be but it's like it they're usually what i've seen is like they get to that point and then there's

like a stop and then it's like either it's not what they thought it was going to be or it's not

fulfilling them anymore or something like that where they then maybe will keep going and then

become even more successful or it's usually like oh my gosh i'm so burnt out or something like that

and I think personally for me I you know I've never been able to fully engage in that just

because I just don't have enough time in the day to devote to all of it and I just also it just

feels a little bit inauthentic for me to just be like every day posting five times a day and being

like check out my future just like that's I really struggle with that being like look at me look what

I made like it's just which is what you have to do but I think when you get to that point where like

the talent will just speak for itself you can post your song once and it just grabs somebody and

they're like oh my gosh this is amazing and you don't then it grows kind of more organically um

and it usually is more lasting because when you spend the time devoted to creating it you're just

much more involved in it and you're much more like precious about it where you just can have that

longevity where you're fine-tuning and getting better every day because you're just that's what's

keeping you motivated is trying to be better every single day instead of just like rushing to the

you want to get to and you're not really ready for it when you get there i want to be prepared

you know so yeah that makes sense yeah you always always go back and forth with the talent work

ethic debate you know it's like the people that really grab me they grab me without a whole bunch

of their stuff like i hear a song and i'm like i'm a fan you know what i mean yeah but then but then

but then to get to that point like how much hustle happened that's true that's true there is i never

No,

yeah.

I mean, it probably is like 50-50, to be honest,

because I mean, I can't be hypocritical and

say I don't spend every like hour of the day working on music,

you know, like that's all

I do is that I wake up and I do it and then I'm like basically doing it all day.

So, I mean, that that is true.

I never mind.

Why don't you just look at your life schedule?

You're just sitting at your computer all day.

Well, it can also be almost like your Achilles heel.

like ever have that friend that's just good at everything it's like i had like this buddy growing

up he was good at every sport every girl liked him and then we show up at karaoke one night and

he picked up a mic and killed it i'm like dude is there anything you can't do but he's just like a

regular guy now like everything just kind of came easy for him yeah so he never really had that like

sixth gear that we can just like turn on that's a really good yourself to the next level i definitely

i actually yeah i definitely see that that that is a really good point the way i think i'm looking

it a different way so i think in that in that term of like when you're just like you're talented and

good at everything yeah you don't have to like work toward it and like really engage in that

passion it's like oh this is easy i'm gonna just like record a great song and then put it out there

and like and it'll do its thing and it's like that's true that's not longevity really either

because then you don't have the passion behind it and like all the dedication and hours you spent

working at it and like finding what you love and what you don't and all that aspect of it so

yeah i mean gosh that i'm gonna say 50 50 it's an interesting debate right

i think you still need even if you're very talented you still need like that

programming for lack of a better term sure where it's like when when your talents when you're having

when you're talented but you're also having a bad day yes you have to be able to like flick that

go into like that next year absolutely we're gonna have to soldier through a bunch of you know what

yep yep we can absolutely yeah and if you're not really used to it i don't think that i think you're

if you're not really used to it i think you'll just kind of hold i think that's definitely true

yeah for sure i think or regress to where it's comfortable not fail but just yes yes yes yeah

comfortability is very much like uh that's a scary place sometimes you know like i'm rarely

comfortable anymore which is like you know it's like you gotta just you gotta yeah i always feel

embarrassed or something about what I'm putting out or what are like you know imposter syndrome

all that kind of stuff but it's like when you learn to just be like that's cool it's cool to

be uncomfortable because it means you're doing things and you're like doing what you're passionate

about and learning and all that kind of stuff so just a little bit of honesty for you like I've

always been like insecure or not insecure but like jealous about people that have been in like a

career for say like 20 years you know but now now at this age like I have people in my job that've

been doing it for at least in the field for like 20, 25 years.

And I always looked at, I'm like,

man, if I would have just picked one thing when I was 20 and just stayed with it,

I'd be so good

at it. I'd be so comfortable.

But I switched careers every like three or four years.

I'm

always comparing myself to people that have been doing it for 10 years.

I always feel like I'm like

the new guy,

even though I'm like, I just had my fourth anniversary of my job.

I was like,

how nice would it be to just pick something and just do it for a quarter century?

I'd be so good

right we would be just like masters of it yeah right it's so yeah i i think about that a lot

where you're like well maybe you know i think a lot of people a lot of artists like you know

maybe i should just go get a regular job and just like put all my then i'll have money and then we

can take trips here and there and like that'll be my life but then it's like that's just that

scares me a little like i don't i i can see like the end of that like i i kind of know how that

plays out where it's like I don't know what tomorrow looks like I don't know what's gonna happen a week

from now I don't know what's gonna happen a couple hours from now and a lot of it is in my own hands

like whatever I create or all these things and I think the uncertainty of it is what excites me

where like I think which is weird because I don't really see that as like something my personality

lends itself to like having anxiety and stuff like that like uncertainty is like one of the worst

things.

But it just,

it just,

I've always been a creative person.

Like I'm sure you,

and it's like,

I get bored so easily.

I can't,

I can't, I just feel my soul die when I'm like somewhere for,

you know,

more than a year or two.

And I'm like, I gotta,

I'm so bored. I gotta do something else.

Like, I just want to try as many things as I can.

There's a certain power in what you're doing,

right? I never had the luxury of being able to write music. So always had to engineer.

It was always like a collaborative effort,

but like what you're doing and I don't, I just don't

ever want you to take it lightly.

If you're,

if you take nothing away from this conversation,

like you literally walk into a room where there's nothing and you can sit down with like a computer

and your mind and give me art,

you know? Crazy.

I've never been able to do that. I've always

needed a musician.

I need somebody to come in and help me.

Like I've never been able to do that.

And you can,

and that in and of itself is like,

it's maybe I'm being hyperbolic,

but it's magic.

And the fact that you can do it and you can do it at the level you do it at is like never anything to be taken lightly,

you know?

So when you're like,

yeah, I get bored.

I just I feel weird when I'm not creating.

It's because that's the magic.

Like, that's the good part.

You know what I mean?

The money will come.

There's really checks in your account at some point,

you know?

That's like you're in the magic now,

you know?

Speaker 3 00:48:59

Yeah.

Like waking up tomorrow.

You can wake up tomorrow and by midnight have a song and it'll be good.

That's crazy.

I really appreciate that.

I really genuinely appreciate that.

It is really weird.

And I think when I get lost in all the negative aspects of self-talk and all that, you do forget

that like,

that's, that's amazing that you can literally just like out of nothing create

something.

And I think it's not that it's been like easy,

you know, it's been,

I've worked at it a lot

and it's,

you've had those periods of like, I don't know what to write about.

I don't know what to make.

I want to make,

you know, one day I want to make something like this.

The next day I want to make something like this.

I have a hard time landing on like a specific sound and,

um,

you know, just like,

I was not

good in the beginning.

I mean, like,

I definitely,

it's funny because,

um,

my,

my mom always talks

about because I was never like a writer. I hated writing things.

I hated,

I didn't like reading

because mostly because my mind's so active, I just can't like focus that long. So like

nothing against it i've just never been someone that like school was i was a really great student

but it was always hard for me like if it was something i'm specifically actively doing or

interested in i then like i can absorb all the information it's great but if it's not like it

just goes out the other ear i just can't focus on it and it's so funny because she's like for

someone who just like did not like to write or read you like just come up with lyrics so quickly

and you you are like you're writing every you're writing all the time and for some reason it feels

you know because it's something i care about and it's because it's something that i just personally

am just like writing from myself instead of there being guidelines of like write about the subject

you don't care about you know it's like it really makes that difference but it's yeah i mean it was

it's taken a lot i was it was not like great stuff in the beginning that nobody will see the light of

it just because it's like different spots parts of your mind is the difference between

reporting and recalling right yes like if you're calling it's something you learned so now i have

to be like all right i got to remember the equation yes and the chemical formula and then

as opposed to reporting you're like this is what's happening now this is how i feel now

that's you're reporting on it so i think it's two different sides of your mind that's exactly

you're rising that's yeah i don't know if i'm right no that's exactly what it is

Jeez,

I've been just like,

hmm,

Molly Street,

that's exactly what it is.

Thank you.

Yeah.

I want to paint a picture for you now.

Okay.

Right.

So with everything you've accomplished,

let's say we're having this conversation 15 years

from now and you're completely hypothetical.

Your 13-year-old daughter comes to you 15 years from now and is like,

hey, I want to

get into music.

What's the one piece of advice you would give that little girl?

It's so simple,

but like,

you can do it.

Like,

just do it.

Like you, you,

Nike,

I got to come up with a different slogan.

You have to just try,

like,

just try it.

I think start out from the aspect of just being curious and wanting to try.

And that's what I started doing.

I was like,

you know, I don't know how to play music.

I don't know how to sing.

I'm just going to pick up this ukulele and teach myself how to do it and try and try

posting a cover and try try doing those things and like that's where the magic come from that's how

you find your passion that's how you find like oh this is something that sticks I've always been

someone that's like I get um like there's something I really want to do I'll do it for like a couple

months and then I get bored of that and I need to do something else but music has never been like

that's how I knew this was right for me because I've never had that like okay I did it I had fun

with that now i'm gonna try something else it's like this is like everything to me it's it's i

can't turn it off it's always just like ingrained in me and so i think it's just like don't be scared

of what the hypothetical of what it all like what this might turn into what it might like just take

it every day at a time and enjoy yourself and try and learn and um i think that's just where the real

passion presents itself and the creativity more people would succeed if you could fail in private

like if you know that you could just mess up like in the comfort of your own home it'd be bad and

sound stupid and make bad songs but at some point you have to like put out this bad song

and get critiqued you're like oh i'll go back to my 95 it's exactly it's like i said being

uncomfortable it's not a comfortable position to be in and especially when you're like yeah at a

smaller level and you just don't get that much feedback at it for a year eventually you won't be

bad yes exactly and i think a lot of people who aren't in music or aren't in anything creative

it's hard for them obviously not any fault to their own it's just hard for them to like see

the progression so when they see that they're like okay well this person's bad they're always

gonna be bad it's like nobody knows like there is this growth that you you have to go through

And unfortunately for this,

usually you have to go through publicly and it's like a very

awful feeling.

You just have to eventually just be like,

I'm trusting the process and just wait, guys.

Like it just,

it'll all make sense.

And you don't have to believe me now,

but like,

I know my plan and I know what I'm doing.

So just trust me and everything will like, you know, keep getting better and it'll have

this upward trajectory.

But yeah,

it's just a lot of aspects that are very uncomfortable and you just have to

peace with that.

When somebody stumbles upon this interview and they decide,

I want to support this

young lady. I love what she's doing.

What is the single best way that your soon to be fans can

support you?

I think definitely,

you know, streaming the music that helps so much.

I think a lot more

than people even realize,

like it really helps,

especially now, like the algorithms and everything

like that. If there's like an active listening going on with an artist,

even if they're small,

It really helps the system know like, OK, this isn't just like a one off.

People are interested.

And then even when you release more music, it starts pumping it out to more people.

Like it's it's very weird,

but it just it helps a lot.

So like if there's activity,

follow follow my socials and stay up to date with that.

You know,

interacting with posts helps a ton.

I think that's one of the most listening to music and interacting with people's posts is like one of the best free ways you can support any artist.

because especially now with the algorithms

and the way they are,

like that's the one consistent thing that is,

if there's any kind of like interaction

with something that someone posts,

it really boosts a lot and it's free

and it takes no time.

And we appreciate it very much.

I got to tell you,

you're already a rock star.

The world just hasn't caught up yet.

So keep doing your thing.

Thank you so much for being here.

I had a ball talking to you today.

I did too.

This was, oh my gosh,

you're my first interview

and it was,

could not have been with anyone better.

Like genuinely your questions,

everything.

The conversation was just amazing.

I love what you're doing and I'm so grateful to be part of it.

Well, thank you so much.

Well, the rest of you, thank you so much for tuning in today.

Please go out, support Kai.

Check her out on her social.

She's everywhere.

Stream the song,

Respare,

and share it with everybody.

It's a huge song.

You're going to love it.

Let's run the numbers up on that tune and take care of yourselves.

We'll see you next Thursday.

Speaker 3 00:56:24

Bye.

Speaker 3 00:56:24

Thank you.

And have somebody who loves music.

Speaker 3 00:56:26

Bye.