58. What 25 Years of Writing Songs Taught Him About Success, with Kyle Blankenship of Flip The Mule

expect nothing and accept everything. You know, I try to live by that because it's,

and when I say accept everything, I don't mean just like put up with anything and everything,

but you know, if you really have like no expectations, you know, expect nothing,

but then accept everything. Like whatever's happening right now is happening right now,

you know? And then it's just like, you, you can't control that. You can't control what

is happening necessarily, but you can't control how you react to it. And you can control how,

how you look at it in a way and how you put energy into the world from what is happening right now.

You know?

Today on Loves Music, I speak with veteran songwriter Kyle Blankenship.

Kyle Blankenship is working on a new project called Flip the Mule with fellow songwriter

Tyler Brandy. The sound could be categorized as indie folk. Think My Morning Jacket meets Band

of Horses, plus something completely different. It's beautiful songs, great songwriting. I can't

wait to share this interview with you all. If you like what you've been hearing so far,

make sure you check me out on all platforms. And please, like, share, tell somebody who loves music.

Up next, all the way from Nashville, Kyle Blankenship. Kyle, all the way from Nashville,

man, such a pleasure to connect with you. Yeah, you too, man. Thanks so much for having me.

No, man, I love the project. Flip the Mule. It looks like you guys are just getting out of park. You have two singles out, This Old House and Cool. Love both of them. I was trying to explain your sound. I was getting folk vibes, kind of band of horses, but you guys are doing something a little different. I would call it alternative folk, but I also don't want to misrepresent the sound. How would you describe your sound?

yeah i think we've been sort of in our marketing calling it indie folk rock um but you know i in

my mind we're a rock and roll band you know i always want to always sort of go back to that

that's sort of where my my roots are at you know so and i think we we sort of aspire to be that

especially live you know it's a rock and roll band but yeah there's definitely a lot of folk

elements in there americana kind of thing but yeah i think the alternative folk or indie folk rock

i think those are where it lies it's one of the things about getting older is in a few seconds or

a minute or so you kind of get a good idea who's in front of you you've been in the world long

enough and and so when i when i when i got a chance to speak with you i heard the music and

it had like youthful sound i was like oh this is a younger guy then i saw a picture and i'm like no

this guy's my age and then i start listening i was like maybe he's an older guy who's just getting

started. And I'm like, oh no, this is a seasoned musician. So now as I start going through the

catalog, I think I know what I'm going to hear. And I was surprised every step of the way. I was

like, do you have your two songs? You have your solo stuff. And so now I'm not sure who's sitting

in front of me because like the songwriting is so rich. I mean, you're like a veteran songwriter.

Is that correct?

It is.

Yeah.

I started writing in my early teenage years.

And once I discovered that, like once I figured out that that was a thing, there was really

no turning back.

I mean, that that has sort of been my that's really what's kept me going.

You know, I'm a multi-instrumentalist and I've played a lot of different instruments

and different bands over the years.

And, uh, but man, songwriting and that creative process, uh, is really sort of what scratches

my itch, if you will.

So flip the mule is you and Jameson Brandy.

You have the two songs, but yeah, it's Jay.

Yeah.

So it's funny.

It's everything online.

His name is Jameson, Tyler Bandy.

Right.

And so, uh, but he goes by Tyler.

So we can just call him Tyler on here, but yeah, man, Tyler Bandy.

Yeah.

Tyler Bandy.

And, uh, he's, we're lifelong friends.

we grew up together um we've probably known each other since we were like 12 13 years old we started

playing music together when we were about 15 uh so if we're doing the math on that um i mean we're

we're about 25 years here wow so yeah and it yeah and sort of off and on you know it's but for the

most part it's been consistent i mean we've uh we've always continued to write together uh regardless

of what other projects we had going on we've always been writing songs throughout this 25 years

and bouncing ideas off of one another.

And yeah, he really is just like a lifelong musical partner.

And I mean, he's my best friend in the world.

It's great.

I like that there's such a big disparity

between your solo stuff and the Flip the Mule stuff.

I mean, you take this old house.

The first thing I hear is singing chops.

I'm like, oh, this dude can sing.

It's giving me like Dan and Shay energy,

which in my opinion, they're the best voices in the genre,

not named Chris Stapleton.

So you have this like crisp,

like vocal with chops,

but then the storytelling is just like,

like,

I need a minute.

Like,

give me a minute with this song.

Like it's,

what was the inspiration between,

between this old house?

Because there's,

there's a hint of sadness,

but it's also hopeful as well.

Oddly enough.

And thank you also for the kind words,

man.

Thank you for the,

um,

that was a,

you know,

a conscious intentional choice that we made to start it out with the

acapella uh the three-part harmonies there and we're really happy with with the way that sounds

and how it turned out but yeah as far as the story of the song i mean it is very very much it's 100

true story which you know you you talk to songwriters all the time i mean we certainly

take creative liberties when we're telling stories sometimes a lot of sometimes and that's really the

cool thing about songwriting too, as opposed to writing books or writing, you know, for books,

you, if you go to a bookstore, there's a nonfiction section and a fiction section and a

same for like, you know, when you go to movie stores back in the day, they'd all be, but with

songs, it doesn't have to be that way. You can, some of it can be true. Some of it can be not so

true. And that's great. Um, but no, this one is 100% true. Every line of, of these verses,

are true and so yeah i i was driving one night and you know how it is when you're driving at night

and you're just focusing on the road and i live out in the country so um you're always making sure

not there's not deer jumping out in front of you that sort of thing you know but no man i'm just

driving watching the road and then i see a little something flickering out of the corner of my eye

and and i look over and it's obviously a fire and then i and then it just sort of dawns on me i'm

looking at my childhood home that I grew up in, like completely up in flames.

And it was a strange feeling, you know, because I'm very blessed and fortunate to have had

so many, I've grown up around so much family and I've always had so many people who cared

about me.

However, you know, there were certainly some difficult times in my childhood.

And in that particular time when I lived in that house, some difficult times.

And so I sort of had a difficult relationship with that house, if that makes sense.

And so it's funny, man, because you're like, oh, no, that's my house burning.

But then you're like, well, let it burn.

You know, and so.

So, yeah, man.

And I immediately came home and got to brewing on that as far as I knew immediately I was going to write about this.

And maybe not so directly as I did, but I knew I was going to write about it.

I knew I was going to, because that's just my way of addressing things, you know, and as it is with most writers.

And so, yeah, man.

And I was, it was one of those, and they're not all like this, but it was one of those that was just, I mean, I probably wrote this song in 10 minutes.

I believe.

it all just right, just flowed out immediately. And, uh, and that was,

and I've really been sitting on it for a few years. Um,

really trying to figure out the right, um,

just the right sound for it. You know,

it was one of those that I just wrote on acoustic guitar and, um, you know,

I, I tend to,

I like to write that way where it's just me and the acoustic or me and the

piano.

But then I really like to build stuff out and try to make it into like, what is really the best avenue of sound for this particular set of lyrics and emotion?

And so, yeah, I'm really, really happy with how it turned out.

And yeah, I definitely do not always write so direct like that.

But but man, when it happens, you just got to when when the magic happens, man, you just have to ride that wave, you know?

Yeah, it doesn't happen often.

but sometimes there are those moments you put your pen on the paper and then 10 minutes later

there's a song sitting there and be like i'm not exactly sure if i wrote this like the song just

happened you know yeah yeah and that is the it's i mean it's one of the best feelings in the world

really and it's it's hard to explain it and to other people who don't or not creative people

yeah yeah and so if you get it you get it you know but it's people who don't get it sometimes

it's hard to explain but but but that is also one of the great things about music and art in general

there it is there is this universal language kind of thing to it you know and so that's that's sort

of the beauty of it and i love that about songs in particular how you can listen to a song it can

mean something to you and then it can mean something totally different to the next person or from the

writer to the listener mean two totally different things and they're all correct it could mean

something different in a different context. Songs I heard, they're all correct. Don't even sound the

same when I'm 40, you know, like it's just, yeah. Same song. Absolutely. You know, it just means

something different. Um, and the thing is I heard our old house first and it set the bar so high.

I'm like, wow. Like I was like, all right, so we knocked it out of the park. I guess,

I guess it's downhill from here. And then I heard cool and cool is like three great songs in one.

You have the narrative about your daughter. If she grows up and she can think for herself and

Cool. Then you have the one, you know, if I, if me and my friends stop talking and I have to break my own rule, cool. And I'm like, man, I was like, first off, I say that all the time, you know, like when it's kind of like, it's kind of like my let it be. Oh, it's like that. Cool. Cool.

You nailed it. I mean, you absolutely nailed it. And you're right about the, that sort of became the idea of it too, with having the different verses and how they all sort of tie together in a way, but they are all their own separate thing also.

And it's funny because both of these songs,

Cool being the first Slipped the Mule single

and then followed up with Our Old House,

neither one of these songs have a chorus.

They're both just all verses.

Cool has the big psychedelic bridge.

Which is really cool, no pun intended.

Yeah.

I feel like they're both just straight to the point.

Again, probably not intentional,

but that's how it turned out. But yeah, cool was, you know,

that was one of those pro like processing what's happening in the world kind of

songs for me. Right. And so, uh, really just trying to try to,

you know, I mean,

there's so many things that we can't control that are just completely out of our

control. We can do nothing about. Um,

And I have really tried and a lot of the times I'm unsuccessful, but I've really tried to just let those things be and, you know, focus on what I can control and what's right in front of me.

And so cool was sort of my way of, I think, just sort of saying that out loud for myself.

Yeah.

You know, it's just like, hey, if this happens, you know, maybe it's like this, maybe it's like that.

But at the end of the day.

Cool.

Yeah.

know? And, uh, so yeah, man, I'm really proud of that one too. And I'm glad you listened to it,

man. Thank you. Yeah. I see it as almost like acceptance without complacency. Cause you could

be like, cool as an, I don't care. You can be like you said, cool with a level of sophistication

and more critical thinking like, okay, I'm accepting this reality as it is. I'm accepting

what I can't, I'm accepting what I can control as things I can control and things I can't,

I'll let it be. But it's not, it's not like I don't care. You know, it's not like, it's not

an apathetic pull. It's like, it is, I've accepted this with a level of sophistication,

you know, or at least that's it. That's yeah. Yeah. That's very much it. I even like, um,

I posted a thing, like a, a reel or something on Tik TOK. I can't remember, but it was basically

saying that it was like, cause I, I think a lot of, I got a little bit of feedback in the beginning.

It was like, oh man, it's so cool that you can just like not care about all of these things.

And I was like, well, no, it's actually that I care so much that I'm not going to participate in the, just the, the endless negative rat race that is, is online all day, every day, you know?

And so I think it was more so of that.

And it was also me really trying to, you know, I know I say the thing about like breaking my own rule and stuff like that.

I think it was a lot of trying to expect nothing and accept everything.

I try to live by that.

And when I say accept everything, I don't mean just put up with anything and everything.

But if you really have no expectations, expect nothing, but then accept everything.

Whatever's happening right now is happening right now.

You know, and then it's just like you, you can't control that. You can't control what is happening necessarily, but you can't control how you react to it. And you can control how, how you look at it in a way and how you put energy into the world from what is happening right now.

Absolutely. It reminds me of one of my favorite sayings. Life is hard and expecting it to be easy makes it harder. So it's managing these expectations that, yes, things are going to be difficult and we can prepare. We can manage our attitudes. We can manage our mindsets. And then we can control our reactions. And even if all we did was manage those handful of things, the quality of our life goes like this.

That's it, man. And I can't remember where I heard, I certainly didn't make that up that like, uh, you know, expect nothing and accept everything. But I heard that somewhere and that just really stuck with me, you know? And, uh, but yeah, cool was really the first, it, it was the first song that was like, once we, it was like, Hey, we're going to do this thing, flip the mule.

and um this was really the first one that was written for it and then we wrote a whole bunch

of other ones and and um went back and forth on kind of what we're which one we were going to

launch first like man this this was the first one let's just launch this one you know and so

and it was good because it's it's it's a pretty good representation i think of uh because there's

a lot you know sonically there's a lot of different stuff going on in there and uh so i think it's a

good representation of all the stuff to come of our, you know, different kind of vibes that we're

going to be about. It still functions as a single, even though it doesn't have a definitive course,

you know, it does sing ability and a repeatability to it kind of sticks in your head a little bit.

Like I, I don't think it's a bad idea to launch at all. Yeah. Thanks man. Yeah. And then, um,

you know, with these next few, um, cause right now that's sort of early on here, that's sort of our

plan is just you know we're just continue to roll out singles at first uh we've got some shows you

know coming up that we're going to be doing and um and just kind of keep rolling out singles and

but the next few like these two i feel like you know they go together right cool in our old house

nice one very much the same kind of vibe these next few um will be a little bit of a change of

pace it will be a little bit more on the on that folk rock kind of uh kind of side and uh something

excited man it's an interesting next step in the progression because i listen to your solo stuff too

and that's like um i mean that is an eclectic mix of music i mean it's you have songs that sound like

ray lamenting morning jacket you have um mama's mood kick that could have been if you would have

told me that was an Elton John cover, I believe you. That's the diversity and quality of your

songwriting. And that was your solo project or is that, um, with the, that there's a number in the

band, you in the 85 or something or. Yeah. The last 84. And so that's, um, to back up a little

bit, we, um, Tyler and I, which we talked about, which is my partner, flip the mule. Um, we had a

band um sort of coming out of high school uh and all the way through the um sort of like early 2010s

called the good side and we uh we put you know really just like we're weekend warriors kind of

thing we played all around the southeast region uh of the u.s and um yeah it was great man so we did

that for a long time and then we sort of pushed pause on that and i uh joined this i joined a band

And I was playing bass in and it was called lines for real.

And,

uh,

bad,

you know,

a little bit of moderate success with that band.

And,

um,

and then when that ended around like 2014,

I sort of took a big break,

um,

from music and at least from pursuing music.

And so,

um,

I got married in 2014.

Uh,

we had our daughter in 2015.

And so I was really just sort of starting my life, even though I was 30, I was sort of starting my adult life at that time.

Cause really my entire twenties was just rock and roll.

And, um, so yeah, man.

And I took a few years off, you know, to really reassess and just see like, what, how do I want to keep doing this moving forward?

Because it's not one of those, I can't like, this is who I am.

I can't stop doing this.

Right.

And so, but when you start a family, sometimes I think you do have to really push pause for

a second and say, okay, how, how do we make this work in a way that's healthy for everyone?

Right.

And so I took some time off.

Uh, and then in 2019, after about five years of, of not really pursuing anything, I really

sort of started writing again.

And I'd always been writing, but really sort of got serious again about writing.

I'd never released anything as a solo artist before.

And so I released the first single, which was a song that I wrote for my daughter.

It's called Lucy Baby.

And then from there, really got the itch again to get after it.

And so shortly after that, I had a ton of songs.

And so, man, let's go in and make a solo album.

uh and also released that in 2019 at the end of 2019 and so and that's the um nowhere to be found

the one with the pink and black and so uh so yeah man and from there um started playing shows as a

solo artist but uh had a had a band that was playing with me and it was all the same guys

pretty regularly and so live we started to bill it as kyle blankenship in the last 84 that makes

And then when we got around to making the second solo album, all of those guys were heavily involved in that process.

And so my live band from the first solo album played on the second solo album.

And so that's why we sort of build that second album as Kyle Blankett of the Glass 84 as well.

And then did some shows supporting that second album as well.

And then from there, again, I was sort of in a position to where I was like, man, let's, do we want to keep doing the solo thing?

Do we want to, because I'll tell you, being a solo artist is, at least for me, I don't want to, this is probably different for other folks.

But from my perspective, for me, being a solo artist is easier.

It's very much easier.

However, it's not near as fun.

It's way more fun to be in a band, you know?

You're like speaking to my soul right now, man.

I'm like, yeah, I'm like surrounded by all these musicians.

I want to collaborate, but there's nothing easier than just going in there with an engineer.

But it's also not as fun.

Yeah.

My like, and I'm pretty, I produce, you know, I produce as well.

And so like, as a solo artist, man, I mean, I can, for the most part, I can make a record

here at home, you know?

And so, um, but again, it's not, it's not as fun.

And so initially with Flip the Mule, the idea was it was really still going to be a solo project, but I was going to do it under a moniker.

I thought that would probably give me a little bit more freedom as well, because I do have, you know, as an adult, there's sometimes maybe, and maybe this is not, this may be right or wrong,

But there's sometimes things I might want to say that maybe I don't want to just have Kyle Blankenship across that.

Right.

Yeah.

And so I'm and maybe I should, you know, buck up and and just be ready to stand behind whatever I say.

But I don't know.

That was really the idea initially.

It's like, man, I want to present this as a band while still really just doing the solo thing.

OK.

And it quickly became, you know, collaborating with Tyler.

And I will say, too, Tyler is responsible for co-writing, you know, a handful of songs on both of those solo albums as well.

And so he and he played guitar on both of them.

He was heavily involved in both of those albums.

So we've in that and continuing with that collaboration, Flip the Mule became it became clear immediately that this was this was a duo thing.

Right.

like we were we were doing this uh together and so it's cool we have um we have a live band you

know with three other cats you know we got a drummer bass player and a guy that plays keys and

so um tyler plays guitar electric guitar i mostly just play acoustic guitar and sing and of course

you can tell from the first two singles a ton of vocals yeah you know but it's sharp like very crisp

vocals yeah a lot of harmonies there's yeah always going to be a ton of harmonies on there

and uh and maybe maybe we'll get into talking about influences and how i got to that but almost

like but yeah it's like almost like fleet fox energy you know what i mean like fleet foxes

have like that like oaky sound but like they have like beach boy level harmonies like yeah yeah and

that's i mean so much of my background and and and the stuff i sort of came up on initially just was

full of harmonies you know and let's talk about it like what kind of stuff were you coming from

first i mean i come from a very musical family and so and not and i say that not everyone

was musicians necessarily but both sides of my family um my mom's side and my dad's side both

sets of my grandparents even some great grandparents that i knew and aunts and uncles

everyone had like this deep love for music. Right.

And it was just a present thing everywhere I went as a kid.

I don't ever remember, you know, it was just,

there was music playing everywhere and it was just this joyful experience,

you know, and everyone loved music. And so, um,

that I think is a big part of, you know,

who I am and, and, and why I am who I am. My mom is the piano player, uh, a very good piano player.

And, um, my, my uncle, uh, my dad's side was a drummer. Uh, he, I mentioned our band,

the good side earlier that Tyler and I had, uh, my uncle, uh, Kevin was the drummer and the good

side. And so, um, yeah, man, just around music all the time. But early on I was really into,

and then I think a lot of this is because of my mom being a piano player,

but you, you mentioned,

you mentioned Elton on the mama's on a band kick Elton, Billy Joel,

uh, and then like Motown stuff. Like that was, that was all,

I didn't get into rock and roll until I was close to probably closer to my

teenage years. And so, but man, uh, Elton, which don't get me wrong,

Elton and Billy are very much rock and roll. Right. But, but, uh,

that piano stuff. I mean, and I'm a, I started out playing piano. Well, I started out singing.

I was just a singer and, and I was performing in shows with a mic in my hand when I was like four

or five years old. And so, uh, as a little kid, I was singing early on and then got into playing

piano. Cause I mean, we had, my mom was playing, we had an old upright in the house. I would,

I spent a lot of time in my grandmother's house. There was a piano in there. And so, um, just

completely self-taught you know i probably picked up a few things from you know just watching my mom

play and stuff but but yeah i never took any formal lessons or anything like that most of it was all

just me sitting down and hammering it out you know we had my mom had a ton of like chord books you

know that would have songs in them and of course i had no idea i had no idea what i was doing but

eventually i started putting some pieces together you know and uh and that's how i that's how music

was for me. When it came to playing and learning, it was like, okay, it was like a puzzle. It was

like, oh, well, this fits over here. And if I do this, well, then that fits really well with that.

And it was just all by ear and figuring that out and singing along to stuff. And like I said,

there was harmonies. My mom's family was very religious. And so I grew up in the Southern Baptist

church kind of thing. And so harmonies, man, all over that place, you know, and, uh,

mostly related to the Motown. I mean, a lot of that Motown stuff has roots in gospel,

you know? So it makes sense that it made sense in your ear, you know, as you're,

as you're taking on. Yeah. The temptations were like my, I mean, I loved the temptations as a kid.

Yeah. Yeah, man. Was there a time that you, you made a definitive switch from being like,

hey, I love music, listening to it, playing it, to being like, oh no, I'm a musician.

I can actually make a livelihood with this.

I don't know if that was like a switch thing because I really don't ever remember not doing this.

Like I've been doing this since I was so young.

And really, I feel like early on in my life,

knew that I was sort of headed for this one way or another, right?

And, um, there have been moments where it's like, um, I think becoming a teenager and

really getting my hands on the guitar, that was something, you know what I mean?

That was, that was something that was like, oh, this is, I was sitting at, sitting, just

playing piano and like singing softly.

And, uh, but once, once rock and roll got ahold of me, man, there was no turning back.

There was just no turning back.

There's something that you said earlier, and I don't even think you meant to say it as a point.

I think it was just within the context of what you were explaining.

But you said, I had to figure out a healthy way to do this.

And I think so many musicians go into it saying, I'm going to make it at all costs.

At the expense of their health, at the expense of their relationships, at the expense of their family, their sanity even.

How do you manage, right?

With music being such a big part of your role and identity, how do you manage stability,

health, and still chase this dream so fervently and enthusiastically?

It's definitely not always easy, you know?

And I think for me, I've tried to find a good balance that works for me and my family.

And, you know, I won't necessarily go into the specifics of that because it's just a

lot, you know?

It's a lot.

But I think dreaming big is important and I think everyone should do it.

I think it's important to also be where your feet are, you know, and I've tried to just

keep pushing, you know, and I think that's more than anything, that's where it's at,

right?

You have to just keep pushing towards it and not worry so much about the timeline of it

all.

I think the most important thing is, especially when you have other responsibilities, when

you have a family or when you have whatever it is, if you have a full-time job or whatever other

responsibilities you have, I think you, you have to take care of your business in those respects.

Uh, and, and pro and honestly, first and foremost, you know, you got to take care of your business.

Uh, however, you just have to keep moving forward with me, with the music thing where whatever your

art is, you know, if you're, if you're pursuing art in any kind of way, I think the most important

thing is just to keep moving. Right. And because if you hit the brakes for too long, if, and it's

okay to hit the brakes, it's okay. Even if you have to push pause completely, even if you have

to push reset completely, all that's totally fine. I've done both of those things multiple times.

But I think it's important to not stay there for too long, right? Don't stay in pause mode for too

long. Don't stay in reset for too long, you know, just keep moving forward. And usually it, at least

for me, you know, I, I never want to, you know, speak for a large, you know, group of artists or

everyone, but like for me, it is really just sort of always worked itself out as long as I've

sort of kept moving. Right. And so, uh, opportunities, opportunities sort of always

come if you're at the door, you know what I mean? But if you're not at the door, if you're not at

the door, you know, and, and again, I think it's totally okay to, if you have to reassess or

whatever that is, whatever that looks like. But yeah, for me, that's been, that's been a huge part

of it for me is really figuring out. And I wish I had a better answer to your question as far as

like specifically how I do that. I really don't know. I, you know, I don't, I think it's just a,

It's just life, man.

You see this gray in the beard, right?

It's all about, I think it's life.

And I think it.

I think to call it life would actually discount your agency in the matter.

I think it's values.

I think that you made a decision, maybe conscious or unconsciously,

to say, these are the things that are important to me.

And you still keep, and despite how much you love music, which you certainly do,

It's whatever your beliefs are, whatever your family is,

whatever your, how you've decided to raise your daughter,

just a daughter, one daughter.

Just one daughter.

However you decide to raise your daughter,

all these things are sitting here.

And it's like, yes, I'm going to pursue this music

as a professional, but not at the expense of this.

And it wasn't like this deep, intricate thing.

I think you just made a decision deep down inside.

And it's kind of, and that's what's kind of kept you balanced.

So when I'm trying to ask for specific answers,

you're like, I don't, this is just kind of who I am. And that's, that's what values are.

There is no compromise. Yeah. You know, I think you're right. Yeah. And maybe I have,

maybe I've never really even thought of it that way myself, but yeah, I think you nailed it. You

know, I think it is just, uh, and you know, man, I've done it. Like I've, I've worked jobs and,

you know, whatever, whatever it takes, you know, but like I said earlier, I mean, when you,

you can dedicate your life to music without, without, like you said earlier, how some folks

are just like at all costs, no, nothing else. This is just 100% pedal to the floor. That's cool.

If you, if you do that, honestly, I, my hat's off to you if you do that, but you can dedicate your

life to music without doing that also. Right. And I, and that's sort of where I'm at, you know?

So it's like, even this weekend I was out on the road, um, you know, playing, playing guitar for

another band, which I do, I do that too, you know? Uh, and so it's, uh, but man, I'm always,

I told like, we were talking before we started rolling, like I drove all night long to get back

this morning so I could wake my daughter up and take her to school, you know? So, whereas I could

have just stayed an extra night and came, you know, but it's, that stuff matters to me. And so

you, it's not sometimes, and the older we get, it, it hurts a little bit more. It takes a little

bit longer to recover, you know, but man, being home this morning and waking her up and taking

her to school after, after doing my thing for two nights, playing shows. Um, I mean, man,

that's living the dream. Like that's, that's living the dream.

Nobody is on their deathbed saying, I wish I slept more or I wish I spent less time with my kids,

you know like oh dude yeah and it's it's it's so cool uh my wife is is super super cool and

you know she she's super supportive of of everything that i've always and we've been

together for a long time we grew up together and so she's sort of been on this journey with me the

entire time and and um she's she's always been nothing but but supportive and i couldn't do it

without her. And, um, so yeah, man, it's good. It's good. Absolutely.

Give me an example of a, like a,

like a tough day for you or a challenge that you've had to overcome.

Cause I mean, you,

you seem like you do everything so prolifically and effortlessly.

I want to,

I want to hear what a tough day looks like in your world and how you come and

how you overcome it.

I wear a lot of hats and juggle a lot of different responsibilities day to day.

And so, um,

and this really ties into what we were just talking about about just keeping moving forward

as a musician or as an artist man it's real easy sometimes at the you know at the end of the day

to all right well i'm just gonna i'm gonna just chill and watch some tv or whatever i'm gonna

do this or do that and and i'm not gonna go pick up the guitar and write today i'll do it tomorrow

and I very much struggle with that. You know, that's, that's really,

and even though I, I mean, I, I love this, I love this, you know, but man,

when you're doing, when you're juggling a lot of different responsibilities,

doing a lot of different things, I think it's important to block that time.

You know, and that's sort of how I approach it now.

That's sort of how I overcome that. I really try to block out my day.

You know, I try to schedule everything in my day and, um, I don't always, um, I don't always nail it.

You know, sometimes I, sometimes I, I just either get behind or I just skip it all together or I skip something else.

I don't need to skip, but that, uh, that's how I overcome it.

But I start, that is one of my biggest challenges I think is, um, because, uh, and I will say, even though I'm juggling different things, they're all,

I'm usually at home. All of my work that I do is at home. And so, man, it's so easy sometimes to

just be like, I'll do that tomorrow, you know? And, uh, but that's not good, right? It's, uh,

then it gets easier to do that the more you do it. Oh yeah. Yeah. And so, uh, that is certainly

a struggle for me. You know, that is just staying, um, I don't know the word, but you know, really

just discipline probably i think you know just discipline it's all it's all under that umbrella

of discipline yeah yeah just staying disciplined and uh and i i feel comfortable saying that because

i know i'm not alone in that you know i know and it's not just musicians no it's all everybody

working remotely is like yep that's yeah and so um you know staying disciplined um when it comes

to music especially you know because yeah man it's it's it's just not always easy and and

but like i said i think blocking out the times that helps me so for anybody you know who might

be listening to this and looking for for ways to overcome that sort of thing you know i'm just like

okay this this hour or whatever i'm gonna i'm gonna try to write you know i'm gonna focus on writing

or this hour i'm gonna work on mixing some stuff we recorded or i'm gonna work on you know because

that we do now is i'm self-producing and so um you know whatever editing mixing content i mean

there's a lot that goes into it now yeah but however that it's also uh it's a it's a gift

that you that we have the uh ability to do it all on our own now because it wasn't always like that

right you know and so now man it's like you you can do it all on your own yeah and so but you

But you have to do it.

You have to do it.

Talk to me about your writing, right?

They say writing starts with, I'm going to butcher the quote.

Music comes from lyric, melody, story, or silence.

So when you're writing, of those four, which is informing your songwriting when you sit down to write?

It's not always the same, but probably more than anything, it's probably melody.

And so for instance, a lot of, a lot of our writing process is, uh, Tyler is a very, uh, creative guitar player. Right. And so, um, so he, he is like one of those like riff, just sort of riff king guitar players, right? He, he just, he just riffs off like original riffs all day, every day.

And he'll just record a clip of just this one little thing that he just came up with, and he'll send it to me.

And so a lot of the ideas really spark from that.

So he'll just send me guitar stuff all the time.

Like, here's a lick, here's a progression, here's a riff, whatever.

And then I will sort of turn that into a full-blown song.

And so, uh, but, so I say melody because it usually is, he's a melodic type of player,

you know, with the, with the riffs that he comes up with.

And so, uh, his, his guitar melodies usually spark something within me, um, or a chord

progression that I might know that I might've played, you know?

And so it's not always the same by any means, but yeah, I think melody.

And then as I've got an older story, a lot more stories become a lot, a bigger piece

of that.

I'll have, you know, I used to, I would never go into it. Like I'm going to write about this,

but now I feel like I do. I go into a little bit more, um, with, with some concrete ideas,

maybe not concrete lyrics, but I rarely ever go into it with lyrics first. You know, it's always,

it's always something else. Uh, and then I try to try to go with lyrics from there, but, but

sometimes man, sometimes you, even like mama's on a moon kick, you mentioned that from the solo

album uh that was that phrase existed before anything else and so we had yeah it was yours

originally that wasn't like from like an old no so it's funny that particular line is crazy too i

heard it i'm like yeah i wish i would i'll tell you i'll tell you about that one if you want it's uh

my wife is really into um like space and the and like the solar system and we're big like star wars

people you know and stuff like that but i'm not sure exactly i think i think my daughter had maybe

brought something home from school about the solar system and we were looking at it with her

and then that led to us googling stuff and talking about all these different moons and this kind of

stuff and at some point uh my wife was so into it and she was talking to my daughter about it

and it just popped out of my mouth mama's on a moon kick but the song has nothing to do with that

The song is about something totally different.

Yeah.

And so.

More adult themes than.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

For sure.

For sure.

And so and that the song is not about my wife at all either.

I should I should definitely say that.

But yeah, but Mama's on a Moon Kick.

This had such a ring to it.

It just rolled off the tongue so well.

And as soon as I said it, I immediately said, I've got to put that in a song, you know.

And so, but yeah, we rolled with it as a title and everything, but yeah, man.

So yeah, to answer the question, it's,

it's always a little different as far as the writing process,

but most of the time it's Tyler sending me some guitar idea that I go and roll

with from there or just something that I, some progression I pick out.

With you being in the game so long,

how would you say your perspective has changed from Kyle in 2000 to Kyle in

2010 to Kyle in the present day?

And the perspective is kind of a little bit too broad.

Just like your version of, say, success, right?

We all go in there as the blindly optimistic musician

who's going to change the world,

and then reality sets in,

and then our perspective changes,

and it kind of continues to change from year to year.

Early on in my 20s,

when we were playing a lot of shows

in front of a lot of people,

I mean, I really had this fabricated idea of myself, right?

You know, I was just...

And we all do, yeah.

Yeah, you know, I was...

I was your typical 20 something year old front man,

uh,

just acting a fool all the time,

talking crazy on stage the whole nine.

And,

um,

you know,

I thought I was bulletproof,

you know,

honestly,

I thought I was bulletproof.

And so I think from,

you know,

whatever,

I'm 41.

So,

you know,

we'll,

we'll say 15 years later,

you know,

um,

my idea of success now is,

um,

is just continuously writing songs that I feel good about that I like,

like songs that I like. Right. And, uh, and then,

and then seeing it through to release. Right.

I think that's the most important thing. I think a lot of people,

there's a lot of people writing songs. Yeah.

A lot of people writing songs and a lot of people even recording songs. Right.

And yes, I realized there's a lot of people releasing songs too,

But man, there's so many songs.

I don't even want to say song.

There's so many people, either writers or artists, however they identify, that really just never let their stuff see the light of day.

And I think the process is really not complete until you put it out there in the world.

And for me, that is success.

I think if I have created a piece of art and then I have put that out into the world for others to consume, however, consume is a tricky word, but you know what I mean.

And I think at that point, then it's like, it's your song.

And so for me, that's it, man.

And whatever happens from there, I can't control.

You know what I mean?

I can't control.

I can't control people like it.

I can't control people listen to it.

I can do work that,

that help the chances of people hearing it.

Right.

Sure.

But like,

I can't control really whether people hear it or not.

You know what I mean?

You can frame the narrative,

but after that it's,

it is,

it belongs,

it belongs to the world,

you know?

Yeah.

And so whatever happens from there for,

for me,

it would be impossible for me to track my success on that,

you know,

because,

because that's just a,

you're just throwing a,

you know, you're throwing a toothpick into the ocean. Yeah. You know, and there's an ownership

dynamic too, for the people that really latch onto your music. Like the bands that I love,

I refer to them as my bands. Like I was talking to an artist, I didn't even realize the way I said

it. Um, I actually said it in probably second to last interview. I was, I was going through the

set list and I was like, and, and something just clicked around the fifth song. And I said to the

artist, his name was Rob Tate. I said, um, he has a song called all my friends. And I was like,

this is when the album became mine.

And I said it.

And then when I played it back in my head

after the interview,

I was like, that's dope.

Because the albums I love,

there's about two-ish dozen albums

that are just my albums.

I just love them, front to back.

And I can point to where on the album

they became...

It's my album now.

Yeah, man.

And some of them are like...

That ownership...

It's crazy, right?

Yeah, absolutely, man.

And some of them are like...

Some albums for me, and I know most music lovers would probably say this, but I mean, life changing, you know?

And it's just when you latch on to something like that, especially when it happens with singles to just songs.

But man, when it's a full body of work like that and you just I mean, there's no it's just all killer, no filler.

Right. I mean, just every song is just and I've got a few like that.

I've got a few albums like that, man, that are just, that have really been important,

you know, milestones in my life, just from other artists.

And it's not many.

It's about, there's about two dozen, I would say.

I was like, don't ever run back out and listen to them.

It's not going to affect you the way it affected me.

They're just my albums.

Just let me have them.

I don't want to hear your, I don't want to hear your negative feedback.

I don't want to hear how this wasn't going to that one.

I was like, these are just my albums and they're mine, you know?

Yeah.

And that's cool, man.

I used to think success was playing in front of as many people as we could possibly play in front of or whatever,

or selling as many albums as we could possibly sell.

But now, man, I'm usually at peace with, if we've written a song, we've recorded a song,

we've gotten it to the point where we love it, you know?

And then it's like, we love it enough to just throw it out there into the world.

I mean, man, that is, that's it.

Like that's at the end of the day, that's what we're all trying to do.

It really is.

And so, so yeah, man, I'm usually happy at that point.

Right.

And it's like, sure, you know, we do the marketing and we try, try to get, you know, it in front

of eyes and ears and, you know, we do all that and that's, that's work that has to be

done, but you can't measure your success on that, you know?

And there's even a hierarchy on your album.

You know, like I'll put out an album with 10, 11 songs and I'm like, these songs are done.

These songs I'm like particularly proud of.

I can't wait to play these.

Like they're even even within your own body of work.

You know, when you got one, you know, it just it just it's different.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

And like I said, we sort of ended on that earlier.

I mean, there's just no better feeling than that.

And it can be a different processes, too.

You know, it can be when you first finish writing it.

It can be when you, you know, in the studio when that magic happens, man, that there's

really nothing matches that.

I mean, being in front of a big crowd, the people who are watching you that are, that

are into it, you know, who really care about what you're doing on stage.

That's sort of a different kind of awesome feeling too.

But man, when you're in that creative process and you're in the studio or in just even in

the writing room, whatever it is, man, when that magic hits.

Yeah.

Dude, there's nothing in the world better than that.

Now, because you're so close to the music, right?

Do you have a hard time listening to music objectively?

Can you turn your producer, engineer, musician ears off and just listen to music as a fan still?

I can.

Yeah.

I'm a big music fan, man.

And even still, I'm always sort of on the hunt for the next thing that I'm really going to dive off into.

and i do like you know i find myself i've done this with a lot of artists and bands where i

discover them later in their in their journey i did and and and i usually love that because then

they'll have this whole catalog that i can go and i'm very much like a um what's the term like a

completist right so like if i if i find something that i'm into dude yeah i'm like yeah i like give

me all of it you know like i'll allow myself to fall in love with an artist like as like a as like

a grown man i'll like obsess over like artists 100 yeah like 100 yeah yeah i don't know if you

know the band dolls are you familiar with the band dolls yeah okay so dude i don't know how

yeah yeah yeah yeah i don't know how i because their first album came out in 2009 and i didn't

catch on to Dawes, man, until

like COVID.

And of course, I knew a couple of the

songs, but I never latched on to

it, never had listened to their records.

And I don't know, I caught one song

in the thick of COVID when I was just sitting

around at home all the time, and I was

like, hold on a second.

What is this band?

And dude, I started going back

through the Dawes catalog,

and now I'm like the biggest

Dawes fan on planet

earth dude like i i mean we've gone to see him a bunch of times my daughter loves their music and

so that's this like cool thing that we have going on but dude like i when that happens i love that

like when i find something and i'm like oh they have 10 albums you know i'm about to just i'm

sorry i'll tell my family like hey you guys have to catch me in a couple weeks after i you know

No, I'm just kidding.

I have homework.

Yeah, man.

So, but that, nothing pumps me up.

And so that is sort of, that is sort of what I aspire to at this point.

You know, I want, I would love to see Flip build out a large catalog like that and for

it to just be there, man, for it to just be there.

And if, and maybe, you know, if, if, if at times some, you know, knucklehead like me stumbles upon it, you know, and something, something clicks with them on one of these songs and they go diving through the catalog and they have those types of feelings that I had, like when I discovered dogs or whatever, you know, so that, that's, I would love it.

That's really the goal with Flip, man.

For two, three, four years from now,

for when folks pull it up on the Spotify page

or whatever it is,

there's a stack of songs on there

that they can live with

and that they can just dive into

and see what's going on in there.

There's something about art for art's sake.

You gotta be careful with art

because some people will be like,

I'm just making art,

this avant-garde weird art just to make stuff.

And then there's an idea of

I'm making a qualitative body of work for myself.

Yes, I'm using objective standards

to create quality in this body of work.

So I'm grading myself and I'm being strict

and I'm being deliberate and I'm being diligent,

but I'm still creating this body of work for myself.

And it's something about leaving

that little stamp on the planet in perpetuity,

which is beautiful.

and unless you're creative you won't really quite get it you nailed it i mean you nailed exactly

what my mindset is when it comes to doing this i mean that's exactly what it is this is

this is what i know how to do it's what i love to do and it it is one way that i feel like

i'm contributing somehow to the universe right and even if it's not when i say the universe i

don't mean for everyone or for everything but i just mean like this is you said leaving your stamp

i think that's a good way to put it but you know i think that's what it is for me man it's just like

this is you know there's a do you know theo katzman are you familiar with theo katzman no he's a guy

you know the van the band of wolfpack yeah a lot of people know okay so so theo theo is in wolfpack

But he also has a solo career as well.

But man, Theo has a song.

It's called 100 Years From Now.

And the last line of the song is,

like, 100 years from now, remember all new people.

All new people, man.

And so it's just crazy.

We're just this little blip on the radar, man.

And it's a big, big universe out there.

And we're just a small, tiny little dot, you know, for just a little while.

And so if you make art of any kind and you can, like I said, complete that process of putting it out there into the world, man, that's rewarding.

It's rewarding even if you don't see monetary success from it, if you don't see whatever, fame, fortune, none of that, man.

Like you're, you're doing something that the world needs.

And even if it seems like the world doesn't need it right now, if some dumb kid stumbles

across it, you know what I mean?

And it just like blows their mind.

Or if it like speaks to them in a way that it's like something they need to hear, you

know, that helps them, even if it just helps them get through the day, man, it's just like,

dude, that's like, you're doing it.

Impact at the macro level.

Then like impact at the micro level.

like that one sad dude in in austin texas that opens up this track that opens it up like i'm like

it's the 90s but like listens to some track and they're like oh my god i had no idea somebody else

felt like this you know that's it man that's it and even even if they're interpreting it

interpreting it completely different you know that still matters you know it matters and and if it

matters at all it matters yeah you know what i'm saying and so i think do say that if it matters

at all it matters yeah that's it i've heard anybody say that love that line yeah and even

and honestly even if it only matters to you yeah it matters right and so but but if it matters at

all to anyone else even if it's just one person even if it's one of your songs it doesn't man if

it matters it matters you know and that's that i mean for me i mean i know we keep sort of circling

to that but like that's where it's at yeah for me and and and for my you know tyler's the same way

you know we're we could be more on the same page as far as you know what we are hoping to to do with

this or to get out of this right and it's just uh man we're just trying to write good songs make good

music and have a good time doing it you got a hell of a head start with those first two man so i can't

wait to see what comes out of that uh but out of the flip the mule camp thanks so uh thanks buddy

what's the best way that we can support you?

Can you give us addresses, sites?

Let us know real fast.

I can't believe how fast the time went, by the way.

Yeah, that's strong.

I did a good interview, right?

It's been a good talk, man.

But how do we support you?

Can you give us all your info real quick?

Yeah, Flip the Mule,

because it's so brand new, right?

Every little bit sort of helps us

keep that momentum going.

So, you know, following us on Spotify,

subscribing on YouTube,

and following us on Instagram.

Those are really sort of the three platforms

that we're living on right now.

But yeah, Spotify, YouTube, and Instagram.

Of course, we're everywhere else too.

You know, if you don't use Spotify,

if you use Apple or whatever,

that's totally fine too.

But yeah, man, if you're active on Spotify,

if you follow us, save those songs,

every little bit of that helps, right?

And it's hard to, it's a strange world.

All that world is a strange world.

especially for a geezer like me right and so but i'm yeah man and so like i've been really trying

to figure it out you know because again when you take you know i i took some time off from from

really doing this and when i got back in like streaming i'd taken over and i was like i don't

know anything about this right and so uh having to learn that man has been a wild thing and then

It's just every time you turn around, there's a new platform and you got to learn that.

Yeah, right.

What's, but we don't really, we're not trying to, we're going to get let by the young guys

indefinitely.

Yeah, man.

And I think, you know, don't try to trip the algorithm.

You know what I mean?

Don't try to, and I'm speaking to artists at this point, you know, but it's just like,

man, just, just be yourself, you know, just be yourself, just do your thing.

And it'll, you're, you're, but if you stay consistent, I think that, I think your crowd

will find you.

I believe in that.

Absolutely.

Follow us on Spotify, subscribe on YouTube.

You know, if you see something or hear something that you like, like it or save it, you know,

whatever that is that helps out a ton.

And we appreciate that.

Instagram, we're pretty active on Instagram.

And so if you want to, if you really want to keep up with us on a day-to-day basis,

I would say Instagram would be the place to do it.

All right.

Well, you guys heard it here first.

Make sure you check out Flip the Mule.

Check out Our Old House and Cool by Flip the Mule.

two incredible songs.

Make sure you check out Kyle.

Make sure you follow

all things Flip the Mule.

Thank you guys so much

for tuning in.

Kyle, thank you

from the bottom of my heart

for sharing your life

and your music with us.

And the rest of you,

see you next Thursday.