July 23, 2026
You’re Divorced, You Need $, and Now You’re Going Back To Work!
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RSS Feed The “Elite Recruiter” Deepali Vyas is here to help YOU land a job or get a promotion after your divorce!
Deepali is telling you what to put on (and keep off) your resume, how to negotiate the pay you deserve, and what to keep in mind when looking for a job post-divorce.
Email us at: IDOPOD@iheartradio.com or call us at 844-4-I Do Pod (844-443-6763)
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00:00:17
Speaker 1: Hey, I do part two. It's your host, Jenny Garth. Okay, do you remember that show from a few years ago? It was called Younger. Hillary Duff was in it and I just love her. Sutton Foster was in it as well, and it's all about a divorced woman who put her career on hold to raise her child and be a wife, and then in her forties, she found herself divorced and having to enter back into the workforce, only no one would hire her because of her age. That story, I know, is so true to many people listening to this podcast. Working post divorce can be daunting, but it doesn't have to be. My guest today is depoly Vias, an executive recruiter and career strategist known as the Elite Recruiter. She has spent more than twenty five years advising Fortune five hundred companies, hedge funds, private equity firms, and I cannot wait to talk to her. Hello de Polly, Hi, nice to meet you. Nice to meet you as well. How are you today?
00:01:26
Speaker 2: I'm good. I'm having a moment because it's just full circle and you know you're going to get this all the time, I'm sure. But Kelly Martin or Kelly and Donna Martin. I'm Kelly, and I just like, oh my god, my sister and I would like die for each episode when they came out. So it's really nice to meet you. And yeah, I've been a fan and.
00:01:54
Speaker 1: With all of your stuff beyond that, you well, I'm so excited to talk to you today because you used to have some very valuable information that we have got to get out there. Okay, so let's say I'm a divorce woman listening to this podcast right now. I've been married for the last eighteen years, and maybe I did a little part time work here and there, or I put my career on hold to focus on my kids. Now boom, I'm divorced, single and on a single income. Where do I start? First? Do I make a resume? Do I go on LinkedIn? What do I do?
00:02:31
Speaker 2: Yeah? So I would say the first things that I would advise is sort of a what I call a five step reset. One. I would know your economics, right, what do you need to earn? And what are you worth? You mentioned that you know you're working part time or this person you know had experience, they took time off, So what are your economics? What do you need to earn? And what are you worth? The second thing is you're right audit your career assets, right, skills do you have? What accomplishments do you have and where do you need to put them on a resume? And LinkedIn right, so what is your digital footprint out there? Both of them? Then I would say the third thing is define your constraints, because you might have constraints on geography, flexibility, travel, benefits, schedule, all of those things are going to factor in if your divorce plus.
00:03:26
Speaker 1: Mom right right, right right?
00:03:27
Speaker 2: And then the fourth and fifth thing. Fourth is rebuild your narrative. Right, you don't have to tell the market what happened to you. You need to tell it exactly right. You need to tell it what you're capable of next, yes, right and fact. The fifth is creating optionality right, building relationships and potential income streams before you desperately need.
00:03:53
Speaker 1: Them, right, okay, getting ahead of it exactly optionality. Yeah, that leverage, That is leverage because then you it's not all your eggs aren't in one basket.
00:04:06
Speaker 2: Well like, look take you for example, right, you've actually lived something I talk about all the time. Your identity didn't stop at one version of your career or one chapter of your personal life. Right right? Actress, mother, author, entrepreneur, podcaster. You continued adding lanes, and that's what I mean about optionality.
00:04:31
Speaker 1: So get multi hyphen it.
00:04:33
Speaker 2: Multi hyphen it is that, especially because I think what women forget sometimes is that they have this experience and then they kind of just push it down, you know, when they.
00:04:44
Speaker 1: Go like downplay it or right, totally a big deal. I was, you know, just ran the whatever at the bank. But yeah, list all your accomplishments, like a.
00:04:54
Speaker 2: Bad ass before. I was a badass mom, and now I'm coming back.
00:04:59
Speaker 1: Get ready for me. I love that. Wait, what are your top three things that every woman should be prepared for when she is going into that drop interview?
00:05:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say know your narrative and like really get in front of it. I think where people make a lot of mistakes are so you may have this anxiety about, oh my god, I have this huge gap on my resume, I've been out of the market, whatever. When you're in front of an interviewer, the last thing you want to do is have them address it before you can tell your story. Right. So, if I'm sitting in front of you. I'm like, oh, Kelly, you know you had a five year gap. Can you tell me about it? You know what Kelly's thinking. I keep saying, Kelly, Oh my god, I'm so sorry. I don't know why I keep saying that. I'm so sorry.
00:05:43
Speaker 1: Okay, generic Kelly Kelly, So everybody Kelly named Kelly.
00:05:47
Speaker 2: Yes, they are thinking. They just asked me this question, and now I have to dig myself out of this hole and get to neutral just to feel like I'm on an even playing field. So what I tell my clients is get in front of that story. As soon as you sit down, and the first question is naturally going to be tell me about yourself. You address that before they even get there. He tell me, tell you I have been you know, uh, previously I was the VP of MX and Strategic Partnerships. I took some time to do family planning. But these are the skills that I've kept, you know, up to snuff with, and I've learned all about AI. And this is why this role is great for me at this time. Now, since you've already addressed the elephant in the room, like they can't say, well, wait, why did you take five years off? I already got ahead of it. I already told you I took time for family planning.
00:06:41
Speaker 3: Mm hmmmm hmmm.
00:06:42
Speaker 1: That's so smart. Okay, so that's like number one, right, what's the what's a couple of other ones?
00:06:49
Speaker 2: So the second thing I would say is have stories ready, Like what are your I'm going to call them the star stories, right, So what challenging situations have you been in? What tasks did you do, what action did you take, and what was the result. That's star and you should have three or four of those. And whether or not you've been in and out of the market, you can go back into your stories and say, this is how I dealt with conflict. Then I know times have changed, Here's how my you know, here's how I've matured over this amount of time, and this is how I would approach it now. Logical thinking. Right, So even if you have sort of quote unquote outdated experience, doesn't mean that you haven't been living life and interacting with people.
00:07:32
Speaker 3: Right.
00:07:32
Speaker 2: You could have been you know, heading up the PTA, or you could have been on a nonprofit or whatever you were doing in between that time, keeping yourself busy, and so you can interject those things. But you should have a bag of stories so you don't feel like you're reaching or you or someone just kind of stops you in your tracks and you have nothing to say.
00:07:52
Speaker 1: What if you? What if you? Or your story is that I have taken I have just taken time off to be a mom and raise my kids.
00:07:59
Speaker 2: And that's fine, and say, the lessons that I've learned as a mother has been, patients has been you know, so you you completely narrate what you've built with experience in whatever you were doing. So that's what I would.
00:08:15
Speaker 1: Say, yes, even as a mom, like, look at all the things if you sat and wrote them down and thought it through.
00:08:21
Speaker 2: You're you're like the CFO of the house. You are the chief Procurement Officer of the house. Right, you're the chief operations officer of the house. Like, those are.
00:08:30
Speaker 1: All little skills, they truly are.
00:08:33
Speaker 2: Right. You can multitask, right, you can delegate you like, you can operate, you know, in a in a high functioning way with multiple tasks, which, by the way, isn't that a job?
00:08:44
Speaker 1: Yeah? It is, right, hardest job ever.
00:08:48
Speaker 2: Yeah. And the third thing I would say is that I would I would be really really in front of like your sort of brand like spoon feeding them what you want them to know about you, right, Like, this is what I'm really good at. Because the thing about interviewers, right this, this sort of state secret, is that that interviewer in front of you just wants to get some of those headlines and pass them over to the next interviewer. So as long as your story stays consistent, they kind of give them the highlight reel of your experience, so you move on to the next interview.
00:09:24
Speaker 1: M oh Keauz. They're a rounds.
00:09:29
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, sometimes, oh there are rounds like, yeah, what do you say, what do you see as the biggest mistake women are making out there when they're searching for a job post divorce?
00:09:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, you know, a couple of things are especially when you're in this sort of like fragile moment of you've now gone through something so personal and you start bleeding your identity and your narrative between personal and professional. It really does come through. And you know, I think it is hard, and I don't you know, take it lightly. Where you're going through something emotional, it's obviously going to seep into like your energy and all of that. But if there's any like way. For that half an hour or forty five minutes that you can completely compartmentalize your personal from your professional, it will be a very good thing. And all you have to tell yourself is, like, listen, it's forty five minutes that I do not have to think about that, Right. And then it depends on like who you're in front of. Right, if you're in a creative profession, and if that is something that is kind of fueling you or driving you, you can certainly talk about it. But if you're going into a banking environment, right, or private equity or whatever it is, and you know they're buttoned up, you probably don't want to lead with that or have that seek through in your conversations.
00:10:55
Speaker 1: You don't want to give them like your mom stories.
00:11:00
Speaker 2: Only after they've fall in love with you.
00:11:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, you gotta wait, so true?
00:11:05
Speaker 3: What?
00:11:05
Speaker 1: Okay? So I know looking for a job can be really overwhelming. I see how hard it is for my friends, and I even see how hard it is for my young adult daughters as a single mom. What things should you be mindful of when you're looking and what should be things that you should be a little more flexible on during your search?
00:11:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think the biggest thing is sort of a mindset. I would say you have to think about it as if you are not starting over, you're starting with receipts. So whether you're forty five or fifty or fifty five, right, you have receipts. And that what I mean by that is you have judgment, you have pattern recognition, you have relationships, you have scar tissue, you know what you're good at, you know what you're terrible at too, by the way, yes, and so I think you you what you should start by is what environments bring out your best work? Right? And that and that means like what can I still do? And then it's also what do I want to do with everything that I know now? Right? And sometimes it could be you know, I actually tell this and and you know, yes this this is great for your audience in that segment, But if you actually think about the analogy of like what do you tell your kids? Right? I have a son and you know, look, coming from an Indian background, it's always about like math and science. My son is not a math and science guy, right, and so like for me to push that and his father to push that, it's like I don't I don't want him resenting us for it, right.
00:12:41
Speaker 1: Right, Right?
00:12:41
Speaker 2: And so I tell you know a lot of parents of kids like tell them to lean into their strengths. That same advice goes for women. What are your strengths? Like, don't force yourself into I'm going to take this project management job when you're not really till oriented.
00:13:01
Speaker 3: That's not for you.
00:13:02
Speaker 2: Then you know, like you need to go somewhere where there's more vision or there's more you know, unstructure or whatever it is, right Like, you get to think on your feet and you get to do all of these things, and it's a little bit more in that vein. So that's what I say about, you know, what can you do and what are you really good at? And lean into that?
00:13:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, because this is you're making a big decision as you move into this next huge phase of your life.
00:13:26
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think it's also scarcity thinking, right, Like, Yeah, a lot of people are just kind of like, man, I just need someone to give me a chance, right, And that scarcity changes your behavior, right like you apply to everything, you accept less money, you overlook red flags, you don't negotiate, you tolerate bad managers, right like you take the first offer, right, And we've learned that in business and in real estate and all these things. Never take the first offer, right, Like you have to negotiate, and so like, don't sell yourself short just because you've had this life event and that you think that you don't have enough to offer.
00:14:05
Speaker 1: Don't sell yourself short. It take some time, right, sit down with yourself and a notepad and a pen, and like talk yourself up to yourself, like make a list of all of your accomplishments so far, Like yep, all the things that you've done. I mean, when you really do that and you go back and you look at that list, you'll probably be impressed.
00:14:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And I think that you know what, it's also give yourself permission to reinvent.
00:14:33
Speaker 3: Oh right, yes, right?
00:14:35
Speaker 1: Why not?
00:14:37
Speaker 3: Yeah?
00:14:37
Speaker 2: Yeah? You know, sometimes a marriage isn't the only identity someone has outgrown, right, Maybe it's you know, you became the flexible parent or the person who didn't travel or whatever. And you might say, like, you know, I don't actually have to keep making the same professional choices, right, Sometimes you maybe were just optimized seeing your career for things that don't exist anymore, Like and I know it's terrifying, but like, hey, you know, if if you know Walmart was founded by a forty four year old, why not you?
00:15:12
Speaker 1: Why not you? You know, there's so many inspirational stories like that, Like I think women should just seek those out too, like pump it up, pump us up, pump yourself and then just dream.
00:15:24
Speaker 2: I would also join, like, you know, professional communities because like women do love helping other women absolutely, you know, And like I'm having a I'm part of this change the Board Game initiative and we are bringing in women that are that want to be aspiring board members with current board members and it's like if you don't know what it's like, like you need to be in the room.
00:15:48
Speaker 1: You need to Yes, you need to be asking the questions and curious and having people around you that are smarter than you.
00:15:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is honestly, Jenny. That is like number one. If I if I gave any advice to your audience, I would say, Okay, you shed this thing with whatever was happening with your divorce, look around your neighborhood, your associations, whatever, and level it up because proximity brings opportunity.
00:16:16
Speaker 1: I love that proximity proximity brings opportunity. You guys, did you hear that little nugget? Okay, what about a resume? Which should people hire a resume writer? Is that even a good investment or should they just be using AI?
00:16:31
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna say, I'm going to give you that answer in two parts. Okay, I think AI is amazing. I use every AI tool on the planet. So your first draft thinking, you should definitely put into AI and say, hey, this is all my stuff, you know, put something together for me. Again, it's your first draft. It may not capture the essence there are. And then the second part of that is if you were just not used to, you know, putting together a docum that is going to pass the ATS or it's going to pass a recruiter or the hiring manager test, then investing in someone that can write your resume really well will serve you well. Because the modern resume right now, and look, I've read a million resumes right in my recruiter role. I know exactly how I read them. Up top. I read it like an f like up top and then down, and then I might go back up and read your first lines of experience. Right, That's how I read it and now if you didn't know that, you wouldn't know how to write it right, And a lot of people end up putting their whole life story on there. There's a lot of word salad. I'm trying to parse through the noise. And the one thing that I will say is that oftentimes you have to think about it like this. If you are not clear about your experience, right, you are now putting the burden on someone like me that is reading your resume and trying to figure you out. But guess what I have, Jenny, I have a day job, right, and so it takes time for me to figure you out. So if you don't have clarity and that document is not clear, then it you know, you stop short of what you really can.
00:18:10
Speaker 1: Be right, and too many words is just too many words?
00:18:13
Speaker 2: Sometimes word salad sandwich is like to resume?
00:18:17
Speaker 1: Do you think that is? Do you think AI is doing the first scan of most resumes that are submitted now?
00:18:23
Speaker 2: They it is, so a lot of companies use AI scanners to just pick up some of the keywords. So, yes, that is happening. It does reach a human. So I don't want to have a you know, misconception out there it does reach a human. I think some of the larger tech companies rely a little bit more on AI just because they're getting an insane amount of applicants. But I would say, you know, for the you know, look for the hidden jebs, look for the mid sized companies or the smaller companies that are going to take a look at you because they're going to need someone like you know. I'll give you a perfect example. There is a company here in Long Island and the guy was like, I actually just like hiring moms. And you know the reason for that is because they multitask, and they know that they have to drop their kids off in the morning and they have to go pick their kids back up, so that nine to two time slot is like optimal work zone for them, and they have to get it done. They don't have a choice. And he's like, that's why I hire them, right, And he's like, my entire workforce are moms and we get everything done. So my point is like, there are employers like that out there that actually prefer that skill set, like prefer that that type of person.
00:19:42
Speaker 1: You never know because you kind of think, oh, they're not going to want to hire me, or because I'm a mom, or because I'm this age, maybe that's exactly what they're looking for exactly.
00:19:51
Speaker 2: So but you have to ask, and you have to you know, honestly, Like I will say, you know, finding a job is a full time job. It takes a lot of work. It's going to be a lot of calls, going to be a lot of networking, it's going to be a lot of you know, resume sends, and it's a volume game and you and the one thing is you can't take it personally. And the reason why I say that is because after this type of event, you have fragility in your ego, you have fragility in your emotions and all of that. So I am really conscious of that. And the last thing you want is another rejection, right yeah, And so I will say that treat your job like a business and that it's just a numbers game. And then until you find the right sort of you know, chemistry and and you know job that's right for you and the culture that fits you, you can then kind of invest your whole heart in it. But like, don't worry about the rejections.
00:20:46
Speaker 1: Honestly, m yeah, you know, those just aren't meant to be yeah, and you're absolutely better off for it.
00:20:54
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:20:55
Speaker 1: I feel like every time.
00:20:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a sign I'm.
00:21:00
Speaker 1: Don't believe that this is okay. Do you think that women out there re entering the workforce are experiencing agism?
00:21:09
Speaker 2: Yes? Yes, I talk about this all the time in my content, and I think that you know, it's there's something about I'll say this agism is real, and I don't want to give women like a motivational answer that pretends that it doesn't exist. And I've been in recruiting for twenty five years. You don't combat agism by trying to convince somebody you're younger, right, You combat it by making your experience incredibly relevant. So every time you experience this, I always tell people, whatever you're thinking, flip it on its head. Right. If you're thinking I'm not young enough or I'm not this enough, right, you need to flip the narrative of like, I have this amount of experience that I can do this job in half the time. When if you hire a younger person, and that's the other thing women, when you're out there interviewing and you're interviewing for a full time job, you know, and if they start if you start feeling this red flag on agism or like you know, don't you know? I would say slip it in there and give that potential hiring manager optionality, like, Hey, what do you need to have done in the next three months? What is your biggest challenge? I could do that on a consulting basis for you. How does that sound. Here's my retainer? Right?
00:22:38
Speaker 3: Why are you.
00:22:39
Speaker 2: Constrained just because you hire? You were interviewing for a full time role and they start thinking, I don't know if I can afford her, she's too experienced. Right, but you know you can do that job, and you can do it in three months. Give them a consult and they can more than likely get that consulting gig approved faster than they can give you a full time offer.
00:23:05
Speaker 1: Interesting, that is a you know what? That felt like a shark tank hack moment.
00:23:11
Speaker 2: That is my super hack. That is my super hack, and it happens all the time.
00:23:15
Speaker 1: You are a shark tank of hiring. Wow. Okay, I hope people really understood that because that's a good one because you can feel in the in the I almost said audition, you can feel in the interview what's the undercurrent?
00:23:32
Speaker 2: Well, and then and they'll say things like, wow, you have a lot of experience. What that's agism, right, that's ages undercover agism, so and so. And it might be unconscious to it. It might just be an unconscious bias as soon as they see you or they read that resume. And that's when I tell people that, like, listen, you got to turn it around. You got to say, listen, what about my experience can lend itself really well in the next six to eight weeks of something that you need to complete, I can do that for you. And here's what I would charge.
00:24:05
Speaker 1: That is good. Know what you're gonna charge too?
00:24:08
Speaker 2: Definitely, no way you're going to charge because.
00:24:10
Speaker 1: That's hard being on the spot like that, like coming up with a number.
00:24:14
Speaker 2: But remember when I talked about, like, know you're earning potential noise your worth, right, so like you can reverse engineer talk to AI. Hey, AI, I used to make you know, two hundred thousand dollars full time. This is the amount of experience that I've had, This is the break that I've had. Give me five comparisons of this type of role in the market between mid size and large sized companies. All right, So then it'll spit something back to you and say, yeah, you're probably in the two to two fifty range. All right, So let me break that down into if I were to be a consultant for three months, what would be my monthly retainer wealthy poly, it would be ten thousand dollars a month. That's what I would propose.
00:24:53
Speaker 1: That's how you use AI too people right to even getting a job.
00:24:57
Speaker 2: It's like exactly sir, for you, and now you have thirty thousand dollars in your pocket while you keep looking.
00:25:02
Speaker 1: Well, you keep looking smart. You're smart cooking. Okay, are there things that you should leave off your resume until you land that interview, like your college graduation year, so you're not you know, compared, So.
00:25:28
Speaker 2: Another sort of one of my hacks. Right, So, look, I've been in industry for now twenty six years, right, almost twenty seven. My resume is probably a page and a half. I do not have graduation years on my resume, not need it. You know what I'm good at, and this is what I know. And I would say after the first or after your last sort of ten years, everything else should be kind of folded into like smaller points. And I will say this to you right now. No one, I don't care how much experience you have needs more than a two page resume period full stop.
00:26:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, nobody's going to read it if it's longer than two pages, right, Like recruiters read resumes for about six seconds oof literally in an f formation. That's like, you've got to get it in the top.
00:26:22
Speaker 2: Yeah. I want to know your summary, and that summary, Jenny, is like the killer thing. I want to know what you do, how you do it, and what were your accomplishments in the first couple of lines. That is what's going to travel to the next person. Yes, then I'm going to see, all right, well, how many jobs have they kind of had, like what's their kind of experience set? And then I'm going to look at that last job, like your most recent job, right, I'm going to look at that and I'm going to say, hmm, all right, there's some metrics there. This is what they impacted. Here are some numbers. They increased revenue by twenty percent, or they saved us, you know, some costs by thirty percent. I'm looking for numbers, and if you don't have numbers on your resume, you're doing it wrong. And I would say that. Look, why do companies hire anybody at all? What are they? What's the what's the goal of the.
00:27:11
Speaker 1: Company to fulfill a job, to get something done?
00:27:16
Speaker 2: To get something done? But why are they in business?
00:27:19
Speaker 1: To make money?
00:27:21
Speaker 2: Boom every company. I don't care how mission driven they are or whatever. They want to make money. So whatever is on your resume, you need to follow the dollar right, Have I helped the company save money? What are those numbers? Or have I helped the company make money? Put those dollars in. That's it. That's the resume.
00:27:46
Speaker 1: And what if you don't know, Like if you're coming off of a job and you're like, I don't know, how did I raise money for them? Or did I did I move the needle?
00:27:55
Speaker 3: Oh?
00:27:55
Speaker 2: You know? And I'll tell you how you know? And this is a this is my other I have a lot of hacks.
00:28:01
Speaker 1: You got a lot of hacks.
00:28:02
Speaker 2: So my other filter that I use is what I call the so what filter? Three times? Okay, okay. So what I mean by that is when you look at your bullet point and you're like, okay, I created reports for the finance function, so what Well my reports informed them on what decisions to make from a cost cutting perspective. So what well, those decisions led to forty percent cost savings. So what well, forty percent cost savings increased our you know, spend for next year's budget. That, right, there is the impact you had by your little report. Right. That's how you follow the.
00:28:46
Speaker 1: Doll, You find it, sniff it out, That's how you get there. The whole divorce process, I'm not sure if you've ever been divorced, but the whole process can really break down our confidence sometimes. Yeah, how do women regain that when getting back into the workforce or even when they're you know, on a job and they're advocating for themselves or maybe they're trying to get a promotion or raise at work. How do they get that confidence back?
00:29:18
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, look, I think that first I would separate confidence and competence. Good idea, because divorce can absolutely shake your confidence. I realize that it doesn't erase your confidence. I remember when I was talking about compartmentalizing, That's what I was talking about, And I think that, you know, I wouldn't. You know, it's there's not enough platitudes in the world to say believe in yourself. There's you know, if you're gonna always get that. I think kind of going back and doing a really reflective audit on what have you accomplished, what have you survived? What are you exceptionally good at? Right, and like all of these things should rebuild your confidence in a way of like, man, if I look back, these are things that I did and you said that, right, Like just to really kind of sit down. Remember you know, when you're younger, everyone always used to say, before you make a decision, like do a pro and calm list, right, Like it was always like that, And so it's it's a little bit of that, right and you and again you stop letting that one relationship become the referendum of your work. So I would say, even like these small wins, I would I would literally have sort of a page on my refrigerator, and any small win I would just start, you know, writing it down. It starts rebuilding your confidence because you're now kind of seeing it on the page of like, should I mind it a lot?
00:30:49
Speaker 1: Yeah? You know, Oh I love this. I can't wait for women to do these things and get proactive. We got to talk about something very important, which is okay, getting the pay we deserve, negotiating salary during the hiring process is not easy. It's not easy for anyone. It's I am not a good negotiator. What advice would you give to a woman on how to effectively negotiate for the pay rate she deserves?
00:31:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is probably my number one question of all time. First of all, you don't have to be a great negotiator. You just have to be really prepared, okay. And so what I mean by that is you need three numbers. You need to know what the market pays right for that role that you're going for. So go to flap store, go to levels Dot fy I, do all of that research. What is the number you want right and the number below you are prepared to walk away? Okay? So those are the three numbers in your head floating around when you are in front of that you know, recruiter or hiring manager or whatever. The biggest mistake you can is negotiating against yourself. So I always say the first person that to throw out a number loses. Okay. So what you want to do is like, you have those three numbers in your head and you're like, you need to ask them, well, what is the range for someone of my skill level? And experience that you That is, you know that this role will allow to operate for me to operate at the top of my license, right, And so when you say that, you're now saying like, hey, look, I know I can operate at this level. You tell me what I'm worth, and then as soon as they give you that number, you can then say, well, actually, X, Y and Z firms at this pay pay level is at this level. So you now come with data in facts versus emotion. The second thing I would say is that you know I hate the open ended questions like what are you looking to make? Right? You need to counter that again, not with numbers, but like, I'd love to understand the scope of the position, the overall compensation structure. When you say overall compensation structure, you now have inserted into their heads. There's more than just base salary. I want to know about bonus. I want to know about RSUs. I want to know all about signons. I want to know about relocation assistance. I want to know about equity. I want to know about all of it. Right, I want to know how much flexibility I have that will determine whether or not I will accept a lower base salary, but a higher bonus if I could work remotely, right, Like, so you're playing with all of these numbers, right, And so I think women sometimes negotiate and then negotiate against themselves because they are really uncomfortable in that silence, right, Like they just want to be like let me just let me just get it done, you know, versus like it's okay to go back. They expect you to go back, and if you don't go back, they're kind of like, oh, you know, we kind of pulled one over her.
00:34:04
Speaker 1: So they expect you to negotiate.
00:34:07
Speaker 2: Oh, one hundred percent.
00:34:08
Speaker 1: Okay, that's good to know.
00:34:09
Speaker 2: There's definitely gonna be some some recruiters that are hard asses of like this is all we can do, right, lead and he loves you, Right, if the company has fallen in love with you and you are the lead candidate, you have a lot of sway and you can go back and say, well what do you think about a sign on? Well what do you and all the things that like those guys put you in a box for of like base and bonus, like there's all these other things that they can play with.
00:34:37
Speaker 1: That is very good to remember because it gets it can get emotional and then you just you lose your cool, like you lose.
00:34:45
Speaker 2: And that's the thing. Plan it does get emotional because for whatever reason, you start tying your personal worth to your professional worth. And then it's like you almost make it adversarial, right, and negotiating, And that's the thing. There's like almost like a negative connotation to negotiating. It's like, negotiating isn't fighting, right, You're not trying to beat the company, right, You're trying to structure an agreement where both sides feel good about saying yes.
00:35:15
Speaker 1: I like that. That's a better way to look at it. Yeah, much more positive.
00:35:19
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:35:31
Speaker 1: Okay, we've talked about rebuilding your career or reigniting your career post divorce, and yes, it can all be a little bit scary, but there's also a lot of beautiful things that can come out of it. Yeah, what are some of the positive things that you've seen come with careers? In chapter two?
00:35:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know, I've actually, you know, had at our age, we do know quite a few people that are in that situation, and we've had some very close friends go through divorce. And I think one of the sort of beautiful things that I think about if it because I'm you know, eternally optimistic, right, is that the second chapter for women is, you know, I to stop building a career around who they were supposed to be and start building one around who they actually are. And I think that you know, women that come out of this with clarity and agency, by the way, like agency, right, Like probably in that relationship, there was probably a lot of moments where they felt like they couldn't make their own decisions, right, So you look at the positive of this, right, like you're gonna have agency to make your own decisions and support you.
00:37:00
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, right, this isn't your said that is like the but I love that word so much agency because we lose it, we lose sight of it, we let it slip slip away. Yeah, and this is an opportunity you guys absolutely reclaim it and you.
00:37:19
Speaker 2: Get to set new boundaries, right and big.
00:37:22
Speaker 1: Ones whatever you want.
00:37:25
Speaker 2: Right, Once you survived your life blowing up a bit right, right, like saying no to a bad meeting or negotiating salary, it doesn't feel as terrifying, like you have to look at it that way, right, And so I think you discover that you can rebuild and I feel like that's sort of the the positives out of this. I mean, I knew a woman, a good friend of mine, who really kind of didn't find herself in the marriage. Like she was just kind of going through job after job and she wasn't like he was making good money and so, but you know, their chemistry had fallen apart or whatever, and so when they ultimately did get divorced, you know, it took her. You know, she was one of those people She's like depa I couldn't even move the cup from here to hear. I was just kind of depressed and lost. And then when she finally came out of it, you know, this woman like went on this sort of I'm going to meet everyone and network everywhere and whatever. And now she has like she started building these like you know, wellness clinics and things like that because she networked with some of these doctors that she knew and whatever. It was complete departure from like those odds and ends jobs that she had during her marriage. So it's like it's honestly, and I don't say this with like the motive, you know, the sappy motivational quotes, but like literally it's limitless. It's literally limitless for you when you're kind of broken free from.
00:39:05
Speaker 1: Those school Yes, Oh my gosh, such important messaging. I've talked about that before too, Like, don't look at it as I'm aging or I'm aging out of things, or I you know, think of it as I'm becoming whatever the f I want to become. Yeah, because the only person that is holding you back is you.
00:39:25
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I talk about that all the time. Like, you know, I talk about sort of like a what's the difference between a B plus life and an A life? Right? B plus is good enough?
00:39:37
Speaker 3: Right?
00:39:38
Speaker 1: Intent I like a B plus right.
00:39:40
Speaker 2: B plus is fine? But if you have the opportunity for a how would you do it differently? Right? I mean like, look, I'm going to be forty eight this week, my birthdays in two, thank you. I have never and again I don't have you know, I'm married and all of that, so I don't have, you know, the situation that others do. But in the last eighteen months, I've completely reinvented myself, even though I had something like normal. Right, So I have my day job of being an executive search consultant and running a global practice and all of that, and then I started doing all the social media stuff and now I have a media company and I have ten employees and like I'm running around town and I'm writing a book and all the like. I've never done more at the age of forty eight, which is why I say, like, combating agism is not a thing, right, Like, you can do so much, you just don't know what you're capable of until you try.
00:40:49
Speaker 1: You can laughing for that one. Oh, it's so good. You are so wonderful. If people want to work with you, Depoly, how do they do that? What do they need to do?
00:40:58
Speaker 2: So I'm known as the Elite Recruiter online on Instagram and TikTok and then depolyviias dot com and we do help people rewrite their resumes and get career coaching and all of that stuff. And I have a fabulous team handpicked industry experts. We do not I pick top level people that have been in hiring decisions in order to help people in a very real way because I don't believe in like theory.
00:41:28
Speaker 1: Gorgeous. Thank you guys, look her.
00:41:30
Speaker 2: Up, Jenny, Thank you so much, and thank you for letting me have my little fangirl moment.
00:41:36
Speaker 1: Oh my god, no problem. I was happy that it was. I was here for it. Thank you so much for being on this pod. Everybody's going to love it.
00:41:45
Speaker 2: Thank you, appreciate you.
00:41:47
Speaker 1: Nice to meet you.
00:41:48
Speaker 2: Nice to meet you too.
00:41:49
Speaker 1: Are you newly divorced and getting your career back on track? Are you having huge success with your career in chapter two and you want to share your experience, Send us an email or leave us a voicemail. All the info is in the show notes. Follow us on Socials I Do Part two, an iHeartRadio podcast where falling in love is the main objective.
Speaker 1: Hey, I do part two. It's your host, Jenny Garth. Okay, do you remember that show from a few years ago? It was called Younger. Hillary Duff was in it and I just love her. Sutton Foster was in it as well, and it's all about a divorced woman who put her career on hold to raise her child and be a wife, and then in her forties, she found herself divorced and having to enter back into the workforce, only no one would hire her because of her age. That story, I know, is so true to many people listening to this podcast. Working post divorce can be daunting, but it doesn't have to be. My guest today is depoly Vias, an executive recruiter and career strategist known as the Elite Recruiter. She has spent more than twenty five years advising Fortune five hundred companies, hedge funds, private equity firms, and I cannot wait to talk to her. Hello de Polly, Hi, nice to meet you. Nice to meet you as well. How are you today?
00:01:26
Speaker 2: I'm good. I'm having a moment because it's just full circle and you know you're going to get this all the time, I'm sure. But Kelly Martin or Kelly and Donna Martin. I'm Kelly, and I just like, oh my god, my sister and I would like die for each episode when they came out. So it's really nice to meet you. And yeah, I've been a fan and.
00:01:54
Speaker 1: With all of your stuff beyond that, you well, I'm so excited to talk to you today because you used to have some very valuable information that we have got to get out there. Okay, so let's say I'm a divorce woman listening to this podcast right now. I've been married for the last eighteen years, and maybe I did a little part time work here and there, or I put my career on hold to focus on my kids. Now boom, I'm divorced, single and on a single income. Where do I start? First? Do I make a resume? Do I go on LinkedIn? What do I do?
00:02:31
Speaker 2: Yeah? So I would say the first things that I would advise is sort of a what I call a five step reset. One. I would know your economics, right, what do you need to earn? And what are you worth? You mentioned that you know you're working part time or this person you know had experience, they took time off, So what are your economics? What do you need to earn? And what are you worth? The second thing is you're right audit your career assets, right, skills do you have? What accomplishments do you have and where do you need to put them on a resume? And LinkedIn right, so what is your digital footprint out there? Both of them? Then I would say the third thing is define your constraints, because you might have constraints on geography, flexibility, travel, benefits, schedule, all of those things are going to factor in if your divorce plus.
00:03:26
Speaker 1: Mom right right, right right?
00:03:27
Speaker 2: And then the fourth and fifth thing. Fourth is rebuild your narrative. Right, you don't have to tell the market what happened to you. You need to tell it exactly right. You need to tell it what you're capable of next, yes, right and fact. The fifth is creating optionality right, building relationships and potential income streams before you desperately need.
00:03:53
Speaker 1: Them, right, okay, getting ahead of it exactly optionality. Yeah, that leverage, That is leverage because then you it's not all your eggs aren't in one basket.
00:04:06
Speaker 2: Well like, look take you for example, right, you've actually lived something I talk about all the time. Your identity didn't stop at one version of your career or one chapter of your personal life. Right right? Actress, mother, author, entrepreneur, podcaster. You continued adding lanes, and that's what I mean about optionality.
00:04:31
Speaker 1: So get multi hyphen it.
00:04:33
Speaker 2: Multi hyphen it is that, especially because I think what women forget sometimes is that they have this experience and then they kind of just push it down, you know, when they.
00:04:44
Speaker 1: Go like downplay it or right, totally a big deal. I was, you know, just ran the whatever at the bank. But yeah, list all your accomplishments, like a.
00:04:54
Speaker 2: Bad ass before. I was a badass mom, and now I'm coming back.
00:04:59
Speaker 1: Get ready for me. I love that. Wait, what are your top three things that every woman should be prepared for when she is going into that drop interview?
00:05:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say know your narrative and like really get in front of it. I think where people make a lot of mistakes are so you may have this anxiety about, oh my god, I have this huge gap on my resume, I've been out of the market, whatever. When you're in front of an interviewer, the last thing you want to do is have them address it before you can tell your story. Right. So, if I'm sitting in front of you. I'm like, oh, Kelly, you know you had a five year gap. Can you tell me about it? You know what Kelly's thinking. I keep saying, Kelly, Oh my god, I'm so sorry. I don't know why I keep saying that. I'm so sorry.
00:05:43
Speaker 1: Okay, generic Kelly Kelly, So everybody Kelly named Kelly.
00:05:47
Speaker 2: Yes, they are thinking. They just asked me this question, and now I have to dig myself out of this hole and get to neutral just to feel like I'm on an even playing field. So what I tell my clients is get in front of that story. As soon as you sit down, and the first question is naturally going to be tell me about yourself. You address that before they even get there. He tell me, tell you I have been you know, uh, previously I was the VP of MX and Strategic Partnerships. I took some time to do family planning. But these are the skills that I've kept, you know, up to snuff with, and I've learned all about AI. And this is why this role is great for me at this time. Now, since you've already addressed the elephant in the room, like they can't say, well, wait, why did you take five years off? I already got ahead of it. I already told you I took time for family planning.
00:06:41
Speaker 3: Mm hmmmm hmmm.
00:06:42
Speaker 1: That's so smart. Okay, so that's like number one, right, what's the what's a couple of other ones?
00:06:49
Speaker 2: So the second thing I would say is have stories ready, Like what are your I'm going to call them the star stories, right, So what challenging situations have you been in? What tasks did you do, what action did you take, and what was the result. That's star and you should have three or four of those. And whether or not you've been in and out of the market, you can go back into your stories and say, this is how I dealt with conflict. Then I know times have changed, Here's how my you know, here's how I've matured over this amount of time, and this is how I would approach it now. Logical thinking. Right, So even if you have sort of quote unquote outdated experience, doesn't mean that you haven't been living life and interacting with people.
00:07:32
Speaker 3: Right.
00:07:32
Speaker 2: You could have been you know, heading up the PTA, or you could have been on a nonprofit or whatever you were doing in between that time, keeping yourself busy, and so you can interject those things. But you should have a bag of stories so you don't feel like you're reaching or you or someone just kind of stops you in your tracks and you have nothing to say.
00:07:52
Speaker 1: What if you? What if you? Or your story is that I have taken I have just taken time off to be a mom and raise my kids.
00:07:59
Speaker 2: And that's fine, and say, the lessons that I've learned as a mother has been, patients has been you know, so you you completely narrate what you've built with experience in whatever you were doing. So that's what I would.
00:08:15
Speaker 1: Say, yes, even as a mom, like, look at all the things if you sat and wrote them down and thought it through.
00:08:21
Speaker 2: You're you're like the CFO of the house. You are the chief Procurement Officer of the house. Right, you're the chief operations officer of the house. Like, those are.
00:08:30
Speaker 1: All little skills, they truly are.
00:08:33
Speaker 2: Right. You can multitask, right, you can delegate you like, you can operate, you know, in a in a high functioning way with multiple tasks, which, by the way, isn't that a job?
00:08:44
Speaker 1: Yeah? It is, right, hardest job ever.
00:08:48
Speaker 2: Yeah. And the third thing I would say is that I would I would be really really in front of like your sort of brand like spoon feeding them what you want them to know about you, right, Like, this is what I'm really good at. Because the thing about interviewers, right this, this sort of state secret, is that that interviewer in front of you just wants to get some of those headlines and pass them over to the next interviewer. So as long as your story stays consistent, they kind of give them the highlight reel of your experience, so you move on to the next interview.
00:09:24
Speaker 1: M oh Keauz. They're a rounds.
00:09:29
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, sometimes, oh there are rounds like, yeah, what do you say, what do you see as the biggest mistake women are making out there when they're searching for a job post divorce?
00:09:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, you know, a couple of things are especially when you're in this sort of like fragile moment of you've now gone through something so personal and you start bleeding your identity and your narrative between personal and professional. It really does come through. And you know, I think it is hard, and I don't you know, take it lightly. Where you're going through something emotional, it's obviously going to seep into like your energy and all of that. But if there's any like way. For that half an hour or forty five minutes that you can completely compartmentalize your personal from your professional, it will be a very good thing. And all you have to tell yourself is, like, listen, it's forty five minutes that I do not have to think about that, Right. And then it depends on like who you're in front of. Right, if you're in a creative profession, and if that is something that is kind of fueling you or driving you, you can certainly talk about it. But if you're going into a banking environment, right, or private equity or whatever it is, and you know they're buttoned up, you probably don't want to lead with that or have that seek through in your conversations.
00:10:55
Speaker 1: You don't want to give them like your mom stories.
00:11:00
Speaker 2: Only after they've fall in love with you.
00:11:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, you gotta wait, so true?
00:11:05
Speaker 3: What?
00:11:05
Speaker 1: Okay? So I know looking for a job can be really overwhelming. I see how hard it is for my friends, and I even see how hard it is for my young adult daughters as a single mom. What things should you be mindful of when you're looking and what should be things that you should be a little more flexible on during your search?
00:11:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think the biggest thing is sort of a mindset. I would say you have to think about it as if you are not starting over, you're starting with receipts. So whether you're forty five or fifty or fifty five, right, you have receipts. And that what I mean by that is you have judgment, you have pattern recognition, you have relationships, you have scar tissue, you know what you're good at, you know what you're terrible at too, by the way, yes, and so I think you you what you should start by is what environments bring out your best work? Right? And that and that means like what can I still do? And then it's also what do I want to do with everything that I know now? Right? And sometimes it could be you know, I actually tell this and and you know, yes this this is great for your audience in that segment, But if you actually think about the analogy of like what do you tell your kids? Right? I have a son and you know, look, coming from an Indian background, it's always about like math and science. My son is not a math and science guy, right, and so like for me to push that and his father to push that, it's like I don't I don't want him resenting us for it, right.
00:12:41
Speaker 1: Right, Right?
00:12:41
Speaker 2: And so I tell you know a lot of parents of kids like tell them to lean into their strengths. That same advice goes for women. What are your strengths? Like, don't force yourself into I'm going to take this project management job when you're not really till oriented.
00:13:01
Speaker 3: That's not for you.
00:13:02
Speaker 2: Then you know, like you need to go somewhere where there's more vision or there's more you know, unstructure or whatever it is, right Like, you get to think on your feet and you get to do all of these things, and it's a little bit more in that vein. So that's what I say about, you know, what can you do and what are you really good at? And lean into that?
00:13:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, because this is you're making a big decision as you move into this next huge phase of your life.
00:13:26
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think it's also scarcity thinking, right, Like, Yeah, a lot of people are just kind of like, man, I just need someone to give me a chance, right, And that scarcity changes your behavior, right like you apply to everything, you accept less money, you overlook red flags, you don't negotiate, you tolerate bad managers, right like you take the first offer, right, And we've learned that in business and in real estate and all these things. Never take the first offer, right, Like you have to negotiate, and so like, don't sell yourself short just because you've had this life event and that you think that you don't have enough to offer.
00:14:05
Speaker 1: Don't sell yourself short. It take some time, right, sit down with yourself and a notepad and a pen, and like talk yourself up to yourself, like make a list of all of your accomplishments so far, Like yep, all the things that you've done. I mean, when you really do that and you go back and you look at that list, you'll probably be impressed.
00:14:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And I think that you know what, it's also give yourself permission to reinvent.
00:14:33
Speaker 3: Oh right, yes, right?
00:14:35
Speaker 1: Why not?
00:14:37
Speaker 3: Yeah?
00:14:37
Speaker 2: Yeah? You know, sometimes a marriage isn't the only identity someone has outgrown, right, Maybe it's you know, you became the flexible parent or the person who didn't travel or whatever. And you might say, like, you know, I don't actually have to keep making the same professional choices, right, Sometimes you maybe were just optimized seeing your career for things that don't exist anymore, Like and I know it's terrifying, but like, hey, you know, if if you know Walmart was founded by a forty four year old, why not you?
00:15:12
Speaker 1: Why not you? You know, there's so many inspirational stories like that, Like I think women should just seek those out too, like pump it up, pump us up, pump yourself and then just dream.
00:15:24
Speaker 2: I would also join, like, you know, professional communities because like women do love helping other women absolutely, you know, And like I'm having a I'm part of this change the Board Game initiative and we are bringing in women that are that want to be aspiring board members with current board members and it's like if you don't know what it's like, like you need to be in the room.
00:15:48
Speaker 1: You need to Yes, you need to be asking the questions and curious and having people around you that are smarter than you.
00:15:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is honestly, Jenny. That is like number one. If I if I gave any advice to your audience, I would say, Okay, you shed this thing with whatever was happening with your divorce, look around your neighborhood, your associations, whatever, and level it up because proximity brings opportunity.
00:16:16
Speaker 1: I love that proximity proximity brings opportunity. You guys, did you hear that little nugget? Okay, what about a resume? Which should people hire a resume writer? Is that even a good investment or should they just be using AI?
00:16:31
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna say, I'm going to give you that answer in two parts. Okay, I think AI is amazing. I use every AI tool on the planet. So your first draft thinking, you should definitely put into AI and say, hey, this is all my stuff, you know, put something together for me. Again, it's your first draft. It may not capture the essence there are. And then the second part of that is if you were just not used to, you know, putting together a docum that is going to pass the ATS or it's going to pass a recruiter or the hiring manager test, then investing in someone that can write your resume really well will serve you well. Because the modern resume right now, and look, I've read a million resumes right in my recruiter role. I know exactly how I read them. Up top. I read it like an f like up top and then down, and then I might go back up and read your first lines of experience. Right, That's how I read it and now if you didn't know that, you wouldn't know how to write it right, And a lot of people end up putting their whole life story on there. There's a lot of word salad. I'm trying to parse through the noise. And the one thing that I will say is that oftentimes you have to think about it like this. If you are not clear about your experience, right, you are now putting the burden on someone like me that is reading your resume and trying to figure you out. But guess what I have, Jenny, I have a day job, right, and so it takes time for me to figure you out. So if you don't have clarity and that document is not clear, then it you know, you stop short of what you really can.
00:18:10
Speaker 1: Be right, and too many words is just too many words?
00:18:13
Speaker 2: Sometimes word salad sandwich is like to resume?
00:18:17
Speaker 1: Do you think that is? Do you think AI is doing the first scan of most resumes that are submitted now?
00:18:23
Speaker 2: They it is, so a lot of companies use AI scanners to just pick up some of the keywords. So, yes, that is happening. It does reach a human. So I don't want to have a you know, misconception out there it does reach a human. I think some of the larger tech companies rely a little bit more on AI just because they're getting an insane amount of applicants. But I would say, you know, for the you know, look for the hidden jebs, look for the mid sized companies or the smaller companies that are going to take a look at you because they're going to need someone like you know. I'll give you a perfect example. There is a company here in Long Island and the guy was like, I actually just like hiring moms. And you know the reason for that is because they multitask, and they know that they have to drop their kids off in the morning and they have to go pick their kids back up, so that nine to two time slot is like optimal work zone for them, and they have to get it done. They don't have a choice. And he's like, that's why I hire them, right, And he's like, my entire workforce are moms and we get everything done. So my point is like, there are employers like that out there that actually prefer that skill set, like prefer that that type of person.
00:19:42
Speaker 1: You never know because you kind of think, oh, they're not going to want to hire me, or because I'm a mom, or because I'm this age, maybe that's exactly what they're looking for exactly.
00:19:51
Speaker 2: So but you have to ask, and you have to you know, honestly, Like I will say, you know, finding a job is a full time job. It takes a lot of work. It's going to be a lot of calls, going to be a lot of networking, it's going to be a lot of you know, resume sends, and it's a volume game and you and the one thing is you can't take it personally. And the reason why I say that is because after this type of event, you have fragility in your ego, you have fragility in your emotions and all of that. So I am really conscious of that. And the last thing you want is another rejection, right yeah, And so I will say that treat your job like a business and that it's just a numbers game. And then until you find the right sort of you know, chemistry and and you know job that's right for you and the culture that fits you, you can then kind of invest your whole heart in it. But like, don't worry about the rejections.
00:20:46
Speaker 1: Honestly, m yeah, you know, those just aren't meant to be yeah, and you're absolutely better off for it.
00:20:54
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:20:55
Speaker 1: I feel like every time.
00:20:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a sign I'm.
00:21:00
Speaker 1: Don't believe that this is okay. Do you think that women out there re entering the workforce are experiencing agism?
00:21:09
Speaker 2: Yes? Yes, I talk about this all the time in my content, and I think that you know, it's there's something about I'll say this agism is real, and I don't want to give women like a motivational answer that pretends that it doesn't exist. And I've been in recruiting for twenty five years. You don't combat agism by trying to convince somebody you're younger, right, You combat it by making your experience incredibly relevant. So every time you experience this, I always tell people, whatever you're thinking, flip it on its head. Right. If you're thinking I'm not young enough or I'm not this enough, right, you need to flip the narrative of like, I have this amount of experience that I can do this job in half the time. When if you hire a younger person, and that's the other thing women, when you're out there interviewing and you're interviewing for a full time job, you know, and if they start if you start feeling this red flag on agism or like you know, don't you know? I would say slip it in there and give that potential hiring manager optionality, like, Hey, what do you need to have done in the next three months? What is your biggest challenge? I could do that on a consulting basis for you. How does that sound. Here's my retainer? Right?
00:22:38
Speaker 3: Why are you.
00:22:39
Speaker 2: Constrained just because you hire? You were interviewing for a full time role and they start thinking, I don't know if I can afford her, she's too experienced. Right, but you know you can do that job, and you can do it in three months. Give them a consult and they can more than likely get that consulting gig approved faster than they can give you a full time offer.
00:23:05
Speaker 1: Interesting, that is a you know what? That felt like a shark tank hack moment.
00:23:11
Speaker 2: That is my super hack. That is my super hack, and it happens all the time.
00:23:15
Speaker 1: You are a shark tank of hiring. Wow. Okay, I hope people really understood that because that's a good one because you can feel in the in the I almost said audition, you can feel in the interview what's the undercurrent?
00:23:32
Speaker 2: Well, and then and they'll say things like, wow, you have a lot of experience. What that's agism, right, that's ages undercover agism, so and so. And it might be unconscious to it. It might just be an unconscious bias as soon as they see you or they read that resume. And that's when I tell people that, like, listen, you got to turn it around. You got to say, listen, what about my experience can lend itself really well in the next six to eight weeks of something that you need to complete, I can do that for you. And here's what I would charge.
00:24:05
Speaker 1: That is good. Know what you're gonna charge too?
00:24:08
Speaker 2: Definitely, no way you're going to charge because.
00:24:10
Speaker 1: That's hard being on the spot like that, like coming up with a number.
00:24:14
Speaker 2: But remember when I talked about, like, know you're earning potential noise your worth, right, so like you can reverse engineer talk to AI. Hey, AI, I used to make you know, two hundred thousand dollars full time. This is the amount of experience that I've had, This is the break that I've had. Give me five comparisons of this type of role in the market between mid size and large sized companies. All right, So then it'll spit something back to you and say, yeah, you're probably in the two to two fifty range. All right, So let me break that down into if I were to be a consultant for three months, what would be my monthly retainer wealthy poly, it would be ten thousand dollars a month. That's what I would propose.
00:24:53
Speaker 1: That's how you use AI too people right to even getting a job.
00:24:57
Speaker 2: It's like exactly sir, for you, and now you have thirty thousand dollars in your pocket while you keep looking.
00:25:02
Speaker 1: Well, you keep looking smart. You're smart cooking. Okay, are there things that you should leave off your resume until you land that interview, like your college graduation year, so you're not you know, compared, So.
00:25:28
Speaker 2: Another sort of one of my hacks. Right, So, look, I've been in industry for now twenty six years, right, almost twenty seven. My resume is probably a page and a half. I do not have graduation years on my resume, not need it. You know what I'm good at, and this is what I know. And I would say after the first or after your last sort of ten years, everything else should be kind of folded into like smaller points. And I will say this to you right now. No one, I don't care how much experience you have needs more than a two page resume period full stop.
00:26:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, nobody's going to read it if it's longer than two pages, right, Like recruiters read resumes for about six seconds oof literally in an f formation. That's like, you've got to get it in the top.
00:26:22
Speaker 2: Yeah. I want to know your summary, and that summary, Jenny, is like the killer thing. I want to know what you do, how you do it, and what were your accomplishments in the first couple of lines. That is what's going to travel to the next person. Yes, then I'm going to see, all right, well, how many jobs have they kind of had, like what's their kind of experience set? And then I'm going to look at that last job, like your most recent job, right, I'm going to look at that and I'm going to say, hmm, all right, there's some metrics there. This is what they impacted. Here are some numbers. They increased revenue by twenty percent, or they saved us, you know, some costs by thirty percent. I'm looking for numbers, and if you don't have numbers on your resume, you're doing it wrong. And I would say that. Look, why do companies hire anybody at all? What are they? What's the what's the goal of the.
00:27:11
Speaker 1: Company to fulfill a job, to get something done?
00:27:16
Speaker 2: To get something done? But why are they in business?
00:27:19
Speaker 1: To make money?
00:27:21
Speaker 2: Boom every company. I don't care how mission driven they are or whatever. They want to make money. So whatever is on your resume, you need to follow the dollar right, Have I helped the company save money? What are those numbers? Or have I helped the company make money? Put those dollars in. That's it. That's the resume.
00:27:46
Speaker 1: And what if you don't know, Like if you're coming off of a job and you're like, I don't know, how did I raise money for them? Or did I did I move the needle?
00:27:55
Speaker 3: Oh?
00:27:55
Speaker 2: You know? And I'll tell you how you know? And this is a this is my other I have a lot of hacks.
00:28:01
Speaker 1: You got a lot of hacks.
00:28:02
Speaker 2: So my other filter that I use is what I call the so what filter? Three times? Okay, okay. So what I mean by that is when you look at your bullet point and you're like, okay, I created reports for the finance function, so what Well my reports informed them on what decisions to make from a cost cutting perspective. So what well, those decisions led to forty percent cost savings. So what well, forty percent cost savings increased our you know, spend for next year's budget. That, right, there is the impact you had by your little report. Right. That's how you follow the.
00:28:46
Speaker 1: Doll, You find it, sniff it out, That's how you get there. The whole divorce process, I'm not sure if you've ever been divorced, but the whole process can really break down our confidence sometimes. Yeah, how do women regain that when getting back into the workforce or even when they're you know, on a job and they're advocating for themselves or maybe they're trying to get a promotion or raise at work. How do they get that confidence back?
00:29:18
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, look, I think that first I would separate confidence and competence. Good idea, because divorce can absolutely shake your confidence. I realize that it doesn't erase your confidence. I remember when I was talking about compartmentalizing, That's what I was talking about, And I think that, you know, I wouldn't. You know, it's there's not enough platitudes in the world to say believe in yourself. There's you know, if you're gonna always get that. I think kind of going back and doing a really reflective audit on what have you accomplished, what have you survived? What are you exceptionally good at? Right, and like all of these things should rebuild your confidence in a way of like, man, if I look back, these are things that I did and you said that, right, Like just to really kind of sit down. Remember you know, when you're younger, everyone always used to say, before you make a decision, like do a pro and calm list, right, Like it was always like that, And so it's it's a little bit of that, right and you and again you stop letting that one relationship become the referendum of your work. So I would say, even like these small wins, I would I would literally have sort of a page on my refrigerator, and any small win I would just start, you know, writing it down. It starts rebuilding your confidence because you're now kind of seeing it on the page of like, should I mind it a lot?
00:30:49
Speaker 1: Yeah? You know, Oh I love this. I can't wait for women to do these things and get proactive. We got to talk about something very important, which is okay, getting the pay we deserve, negotiating salary during the hiring process is not easy. It's not easy for anyone. It's I am not a good negotiator. What advice would you give to a woman on how to effectively negotiate for the pay rate she deserves?
00:31:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is probably my number one question of all time. First of all, you don't have to be a great negotiator. You just have to be really prepared, okay. And so what I mean by that is you need three numbers. You need to know what the market pays right for that role that you're going for. So go to flap store, go to levels Dot fy I, do all of that research. What is the number you want right and the number below you are prepared to walk away? Okay? So those are the three numbers in your head floating around when you are in front of that you know, recruiter or hiring manager or whatever. The biggest mistake you can is negotiating against yourself. So I always say the first person that to throw out a number loses. Okay. So what you want to do is like, you have those three numbers in your head and you're like, you need to ask them, well, what is the range for someone of my skill level? And experience that you That is, you know that this role will allow to operate for me to operate at the top of my license, right, And so when you say that, you're now saying like, hey, look, I know I can operate at this level. You tell me what I'm worth, and then as soon as they give you that number, you can then say, well, actually, X, Y and Z firms at this pay pay level is at this level. So you now come with data in facts versus emotion. The second thing I would say is that you know I hate the open ended questions like what are you looking to make? Right? You need to counter that again, not with numbers, but like, I'd love to understand the scope of the position, the overall compensation structure. When you say overall compensation structure, you now have inserted into their heads. There's more than just base salary. I want to know about bonus. I want to know about RSUs. I want to know all about signons. I want to know about relocation assistance. I want to know about equity. I want to know about all of it. Right, I want to know how much flexibility I have that will determine whether or not I will accept a lower base salary, but a higher bonus if I could work remotely, right, Like, so you're playing with all of these numbers, right, And so I think women sometimes negotiate and then negotiate against themselves because they are really uncomfortable in that silence, right, Like they just want to be like let me just let me just get it done, you know, versus like it's okay to go back. They expect you to go back, and if you don't go back, they're kind of like, oh, you know, we kind of pulled one over her.
00:34:04
Speaker 1: So they expect you to negotiate.
00:34:07
Speaker 2: Oh, one hundred percent.
00:34:08
Speaker 1: Okay, that's good to know.
00:34:09
Speaker 2: There's definitely gonna be some some recruiters that are hard asses of like this is all we can do, right, lead and he loves you, Right, if the company has fallen in love with you and you are the lead candidate, you have a lot of sway and you can go back and say, well what do you think about a sign on? Well what do you and all the things that like those guys put you in a box for of like base and bonus, like there's all these other things that they can play with.
00:34:37
Speaker 1: That is very good to remember because it gets it can get emotional and then you just you lose your cool, like you lose.
00:34:45
Speaker 2: And that's the thing. Plan it does get emotional because for whatever reason, you start tying your personal worth to your professional worth. And then it's like you almost make it adversarial, right, and negotiating, And that's the thing. There's like almost like a negative connotation to negotiating. It's like, negotiating isn't fighting, right, You're not trying to beat the company, right, You're trying to structure an agreement where both sides feel good about saying yes.
00:35:15
Speaker 1: I like that. That's a better way to look at it. Yeah, much more positive.
00:35:19
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:35:31
Speaker 1: Okay, we've talked about rebuilding your career or reigniting your career post divorce, and yes, it can all be a little bit scary, but there's also a lot of beautiful things that can come out of it. Yeah, what are some of the positive things that you've seen come with careers? In chapter two?
00:35:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know, I've actually, you know, had at our age, we do know quite a few people that are in that situation, and we've had some very close friends go through divorce. And I think one of the sort of beautiful things that I think about if it because I'm you know, eternally optimistic, right, is that the second chapter for women is, you know, I to stop building a career around who they were supposed to be and start building one around who they actually are. And I think that you know, women that come out of this with clarity and agency, by the way, like agency, right, Like probably in that relationship, there was probably a lot of moments where they felt like they couldn't make their own decisions, right, So you look at the positive of this, right, like you're gonna have agency to make your own decisions and support you.
00:37:00
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, right, this isn't your said that is like the but I love that word so much agency because we lose it, we lose sight of it, we let it slip slip away. Yeah, and this is an opportunity you guys absolutely reclaim it and you.
00:37:19
Speaker 2: Get to set new boundaries, right and big.
00:37:22
Speaker 1: Ones whatever you want.
00:37:25
Speaker 2: Right, Once you survived your life blowing up a bit right, right, like saying no to a bad meeting or negotiating salary, it doesn't feel as terrifying, like you have to look at it that way, right, And so I think you discover that you can rebuild and I feel like that's sort of the the positives out of this. I mean, I knew a woman, a good friend of mine, who really kind of didn't find herself in the marriage. Like she was just kind of going through job after job and she wasn't like he was making good money and so, but you know, their chemistry had fallen apart or whatever, and so when they ultimately did get divorced, you know, it took her. You know, she was one of those people She's like depa I couldn't even move the cup from here to hear. I was just kind of depressed and lost. And then when she finally came out of it, you know, this woman like went on this sort of I'm going to meet everyone and network everywhere and whatever. And now she has like she started building these like you know, wellness clinics and things like that because she networked with some of these doctors that she knew and whatever. It was complete departure from like those odds and ends jobs that she had during her marriage. So it's like it's honestly, and I don't say this with like the motive, you know, the sappy motivational quotes, but like literally it's limitless. It's literally limitless for you when you're kind of broken free from.
00:39:05
Speaker 1: Those school Yes, Oh my gosh, such important messaging. I've talked about that before too, Like, don't look at it as I'm aging or I'm aging out of things, or I you know, think of it as I'm becoming whatever the f I want to become. Yeah, because the only person that is holding you back is you.
00:39:25
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I talk about that all the time. Like, you know, I talk about sort of like a what's the difference between a B plus life and an A life? Right? B plus is good enough?
00:39:37
Speaker 3: Right?
00:39:38
Speaker 1: Intent I like a B plus right.
00:39:40
Speaker 2: B plus is fine? But if you have the opportunity for a how would you do it differently? Right? I mean like, look, I'm going to be forty eight this week, my birthdays in two, thank you. I have never and again I don't have you know, I'm married and all of that, so I don't have, you know, the situation that others do. But in the last eighteen months, I've completely reinvented myself, even though I had something like normal. Right, So I have my day job of being an executive search consultant and running a global practice and all of that, and then I started doing all the social media stuff and now I have a media company and I have ten employees and like I'm running around town and I'm writing a book and all the like. I've never done more at the age of forty eight, which is why I say, like, combating agism is not a thing, right, Like, you can do so much, you just don't know what you're capable of until you try.
00:40:49
Speaker 1: You can laughing for that one. Oh, it's so good. You are so wonderful. If people want to work with you, Depoly, how do they do that? What do they need to do?
00:40:58
Speaker 2: So I'm known as the Elite Recruiter online on Instagram and TikTok and then depolyviias dot com and we do help people rewrite their resumes and get career coaching and all of that stuff. And I have a fabulous team handpicked industry experts. We do not I pick top level people that have been in hiring decisions in order to help people in a very real way because I don't believe in like theory.
00:41:28
Speaker 1: Gorgeous. Thank you guys, look her.
00:41:30
Speaker 2: Up, Jenny, Thank you so much, and thank you for letting me have my little fangirl moment.
00:41:36
Speaker 1: Oh my god, no problem. I was happy that it was. I was here for it. Thank you so much for being on this pod. Everybody's going to love it.
00:41:45
Speaker 2: Thank you, appreciate you.
00:41:47
Speaker 1: Nice to meet you.
00:41:48
Speaker 2: Nice to meet you too.
00:41:49
Speaker 1: Are you newly divorced and getting your career back on track? Are you having huge success with your career in chapter two and you want to share your experience, Send us an email or leave us a voicemail. All the info is in the show notes. Follow us on Socials I Do Part two, an iHeartRadio podcast where falling in love is the main objective.