21-Year-Old Charged With Hate Crimes For Cross Burning, Denies Racially Motivated

00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hey, they're folks. It is Thursday, June eighteenth, and a man who set a cross on fire and placed it in a very public Chicago park has been charged with the hate crime. But here's the thing. He said he had no idea that what he was doing had anything to do with hate or racism. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Do you buy it?

00:00:29
Speaker 2: Well, it's so funny. I was just going to ask you the same question, and I actually do he sat down? Do I believe that he wanted to send a message, thought this would grab attention, But I don't think he realized just how deeply offended and how historically racially charged his choice of protest was. I do think he was just a stupid, basically ignorant kid who knew kind of that it was in centiary, but didn't realize just how much. So you didn't buy it.

00:01:09
Speaker 1: No swastika? Would you buy it? Right? Would you buy it? If someone says the same thing about that particular image? Now? But I just throughout history, you were raised, as far as I understand, in the US, this young man.

00:01:26
Speaker 2: Oh, he grew up in Naperville, Illinois, about as midwestern as you can get how a.

00:01:32
Speaker 1: Very difficult time believing that he made it through twenty one years of his life, growing up where he did, and being in college and educating and being a senior at the University of Illinois at Chicago. You can do all that and you had no idea. That's a stunning if.

00:01:49
Speaker 2: True that I do, I hear you, and I agree because yes, if you asked any of our kids, if they realized just how horrific the symbol of a burning cross is and who and what organization it represents, I actually think that they would all come up with the ku Klux Klan.

00:02:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, how do you can? I do believe that. I just I don't understand. You're in college. We let somebody, you know, we failed him. If we let him get through his senior year of college and not understand this, then there's somewhere we're failing in history and educating people in this country. Well, I have.

00:02:27
Speaker 2: A very I absolutely agree with that.

00:02:30
Speaker 1: I have a very, very difficult time. Now. I listened to his interview, and we will talk about his interview and the interview itself. Robes is done before police even catch up with him. He put his own face and name out there before police even came and arrested.

00:02:46
Speaker 2: His ass It's crazy. He first of all, he put out a video shortly after the burning cross was just about everywhere, and they had surveillance video of him and it's clearly him. I mean, they had great shots of him fleeing the scene. But he goes and takes the time to put up a video saying yeah, that was me, and then goes and does an interview.

00:03:08
Speaker 1: What was the point of that? Why would you do that?

00:03:10
Speaker 2: He wanted attention.

00:03:11
Speaker 1: Well, okay, you got it, but man, you got it. If you remember, we go back how far back was this June ninth.

00:03:19
Speaker 2: June ninth was when the burning cross actually was placed. He put it there. He talks about how he did it. I mean, he casually just sits with this local reporter and talks about how he put it all together and how he pulled it off.

00:03:31
Speaker 1: On a park bench of all things. So we go back robes when this first happened. This is a concerning incident. This is this is Chicago, a city that is not new to racial violence, to racial tension, so this was very concerning. In the middle of the day that this was put out there. Now you see this, Robes. It's automatic in this country. The first thing that comes to people's minds has to do with racism, clan a threat. Okay, what's happening, what's next? That's the first thought. But then Robes they put out the images and you immediately You and I didn't get fully into it on MIC's but behind the scenes we had some pretty intense conversations about who the suspect was.

00:04:13
Speaker 2: Right, We didn't want to make any prejudgments, but it looked pretty damn clear to both of us that it was an Asian man. Some people were saying other different ethnicities, but I think we made it pretty clear on the episode the day that we first heard about this, that it was fairly obvious he was not white, So that didn't make a whole lot of sense.

00:04:34
Speaker 1: He did not fit the bill of some white nationalists, right, No, he didn't. From the jump, you just what do you say, Robes, He just didn't. You're looking at somebody that's not a white man. This is someone who was not some white racist guy putting this thing up to intimidate black folks. Now we still have to wonder why he did it, and just because he's Asian doesn't mean, he didn't put this up to send a particular racial.

00:05:00
Speaker 2: Message, correct, It just would be highly unusual. The whole thing was strange to begin with, so yes, we started wondering why would this And he looked like a young college kid, which is exactly what he turned out to be. Why would this young Asian college kid put a burning cross in the middle of Chicago's Grant Park like a scene out of a racially motivated movie describing the Klan. I mean, that's exactly what it looked like. So none of the obvious answers were there, but.

00:05:33
Speaker 1: Now we have an answer. Yes we do robes. If it's not racism, if this wasn't to even so racial strife in the country to stir people up, why would he do this.

00:05:46
Speaker 2: He was trying to protest our federal government, according to him, and he wanted to get attention. He wanted to basically put this burning cross, he says, in the middle of Chicago's park to protest President Trump and his policies.

00:06:01
Speaker 1: Okay, why choose a burning cross?

00:06:07
Speaker 2: Unclear?

00:06:08
Speaker 1: Thank you? Okay, I don't know what mister Merlin Lou is doing, but that's his name. Twenty one year old Merlin lou like you said, he grew up in what part of Naperville, Illinois, Illinois? So local boy?

00:06:18
Speaker 2: Suburban Chicago?

00:06:20
Speaker 1: Yes boy? Uh kid? So all this happens on the ninth The video of him is They put it out pretty quickly, but again Rods before police catch up to him and are able to arrest him, he puts the video online and sits down for an interview with a local reporter. Now at this point we're talking to you as of this recording Robes and I think I confirmed with you you haven't seen yet. He was to be in court today for a detention hearing, So don't know if he's going to be hell, I think we're waiting on that answer. But we do know he has been charged.

00:06:52
Speaker 2: Yes, he has been charged. He has been arrested, and he has same serious charges against him. He has two felony hate crimes he's facing. He has an arson charged, damage to property, reckless conduct, disorderly conduct. I believe it was two felonies and four misdemeanors. But this is we're talking serious jail time. This is no joke. And to see him in that interview with that reporter sitting on a park bench nonchalantly, almost kind of laughing that the police hadn't arrested him yet. He said his parents were urging him to turn himself in, but he was like, eh, we'll see you know, when they show up at the door. I guess that's when I'll get arrested. But he really didn't seem too concerned about it.

00:07:35
Speaker 1: He was trying to make his point, get his message out, and some of it doesn't seem to be frankly, that well thought out based on the interview and the excerpts we were able to hear, and he did say this to the reporter in terms of why he did what he did. He said he'd failed in delivering my message. But I believe that. Right now, I'm trying my best to clarify the confusion, and yeah, I don't regret what I did. Robes, he's protesting, he's pushing back Trump administration. Okay, burn Across. Don't know why exactly you choose that method? Who uses that method to get any message across anywhere in the US. Yeah, what is he doing?

00:08:20
Speaker 2: I don't know? And he didn't really have a good answer, because look, the reporter did push him and say, you didn't know you're telling me that you had no idea that this was a racially charged symbol of hate. And what he said was, I didn't know about the historic relevance. I didn't know the severity, how racially motivated it may seem. From what I did, he said it had nothing and then he went on to say it had nothing to do with race, It had nothing to do with gender. Huh gender, Yes, that So I just felt like, look to my first point when you asked me directly, if I thought this kid just was maybe that ignorant. Just the way I heard him talk, I don't think he got it. And even though he's like, I'm sorry now that I realize that I may have offended folks, he still didn't really seem to get it.

00:09:14
Speaker 1: He seemed cluless.

00:09:15
Speaker 2: He really did.

00:09:16
Speaker 1: He wants to be a part of something. He wants to be a part of a movement, a protest, get a message out, to be relevant, to take a stand, to be seen. And you choose to burn a cross. And if you want to have a protest, stand out there with your cross, get a message out, put a sign up, put a anti put do something. I'm just gonna burn a cross here and then what.

00:09:39
Speaker 2: And then run for my life and get caught on surveillance camera.

00:09:43
Speaker 1: And here's the thing, bro, what are you running from? Because the reason robes You don't have to put a sign up or a message or stand next to the cross, because we all understand what it means when you see just a burning cross. How has he missed that he ran away for a reason? Then why come show your face on the load And that's the bizarre part of it.

00:10:07
Speaker 2: Then go put a video up like hey, look what I did, and then go do an interview saying, ha, the cops haven't arrested me yet. I really feel like he thought he was getting attention. His name is now out there. He thinks he's a hero, maybe for the little guy who is protesting the big man in the White House. And he felt like maybe he was making a name for himself. And the reporter at one point even pressed him because part of what he said in the video is that he wanted the Trump administration to end. He wanted the end or to the bring up the end of Trump. Yes, wanted him gone now. And so the reporter said, you know, was that a direct threat to the President's life? And he said, no, No, I just want, you know, the administration to be gone. So look, I think he thought it was cool. I think he wanted the attention. I do think he knew burning across would get him attention. Maybe he didn't realize just how offensive that would be. I leave space for that, but I really do think this kid is an idiot who was looking for attention.

00:11:15
Speaker 1: What happens with this? You talk about it in Germany when you go there so often, how they are, how their history and the ugliness of the history is in your face, it keep a reminder of it. Is Is this something we should applaud Robes that we are now raising kids who don't have that understanding, who don't know about it, who don't is not a part of their every day. Is that a sign of some progress?

00:11:41
Speaker 2: No? I think that's deeply concerning me, because I do. I know, because I think the Germans have done it correctly. When you go to Berlin, you cannot escape the atrocities that happened with the Nazis, and you see the Berlin Wall outline, and you see the Jewish memorials, and you see the statues, and they want people to remember you cannot fly the German flag unless you're at a sporting event, because nationalism got them to that ugly dark place, and they don't want the younger generations to forget. They don't want the younger generations to get lazy or to think it's okay. You can't say a lot of things in Berlin, in the streets of Germany that you can say in the United States, because they don't want history to repeat itself, and they're very strict about making sure people remember and making people honor what happened.

00:12:39
Speaker 1: And we have a twenty one hero, almost college graduate who doesn't know that burning across is bad.

00:12:46
Speaker 2: That's scary.

00:12:47
Speaker 1: That is scary. Oh, that is scary. But even though he did it, he also put one thing on that cross that could keep him out of prison. Yes, folks, it ain't exactly illegal to do what he did. Stay here, we'll explain and.

00:13:13
Speaker 2: Welcome back everyone to this episode of Amy and TJ. We are talking about twenty one year old Merlin Lou senior college student there in Chicago, grew up in Naperville, Illinois, of Asian descent, and he is now charged with a whole lot of crime.

00:13:34
Speaker 1: The Asian kid burning crosses in Chicago.

00:13:37
Speaker 2: I mean, what is next? But he's looking at two felony hate crimes, he's got arson charges, he's got four misdemeanors. This kid is looking at some significant prison time. But we already know what his defense is going to be because he's telling local news outlets. I didn't know that this was a racially motivated thing. I didn't mean to spew hate. That's not what my intention was.

00:14:02
Speaker 1: You think stupidity should work as a defense.

00:14:05
Speaker 2: I don't think it is a defense. Isn't that kind of what people say? Stupidity is not a defense.

00:14:10
Speaker 1: It might be in a court of law for this kid, because the Supreme Court has ruled on more than one occasion, a couple of landmark cases robes and what he did, in fact, is legal speech.

00:14:22
Speaker 2: Freedom of speech right.

00:14:24
Speaker 1: Only crosses the line into being a hate crime if burning that cross is meant as a threat or to intimidate.

00:14:33
Speaker 2: Okay, well, he admitted that he wanted to intimidate or he wanted.

00:14:37
Speaker 1: To protest protests.

00:14:39
Speaker 2: Yes, you're right, but the Trump administration and his big aha. See here's why. It had nothing to do with black people, and it had everything to do with Donald Trump. I put a red cap on top of that seven foot cross before I set it on fire.

00:14:59
Speaker 1: Which was meant to represent MAGA, and so Robes, that is a couple of ways you can look at it. Is he now? Is that clear? Now this was a political protest, this was a form of speech. Or by putting that hat there is that supposed to be representative of the MAGA movement that you're now making a threat towards.

00:15:20
Speaker 2: I don't know, and I think it'll be whatever prosecutors choose to I guess whatever path they choose to go down. But right now they are charging him with a hate crime, and they talk about intimidation in these charges. So look, it is an intimidating visual to have a burning cross. Now, if he's claiming it wasn't intended to intimidate black people, does that suddenly negate it from being a hate crime? That's the question.

00:15:49
Speaker 1: Now that well, intent has to be proven. I think that is key. Intent, Robes. Even though he's still terrorized by what he did, it was his intent to do so might save him from a hate crime conviction. Isn't that crazy?

00:16:05
Speaker 2: That is crazy?

00:16:06
Speaker 1: It's just wild. The thing, Oh I didn't know, I.

00:16:08
Speaker 2: Didn't know burning across would make people feel concerned for their safety.

00:16:13
Speaker 1: What no, the sims of hate of my missing the swastig. There was just some things, bro. You just you see it and immediately it's yeah.

00:16:19
Speaker 2: And he even admitted that it was. He brought up the movie when he was talking to the local reporter, Birth of a Nation, correct, the movie about the Klan. So he was aware enough, and he had to have known if he just put up a poster or he put up why didn't he put up a burning Donald Trump? Why? Like there were plenty of other things he could have done. He chose the burning cross because he probably knew. Look, he knew that would get attention.

00:16:49
Speaker 1: But what kind of attention? What is the because now that he has it, he has nothing to say. Babe, we listened to that interview.

00:16:56
Speaker 2: He had nothing to say.

00:16:57
Speaker 1: It wasn't earth shattering stuff. You have our attention. Okay. What he told us that he got a couple of boards, he put the thing together, he dragged it out. I put a hat on it, I put some toilet paper and some lighter fluid on it, and I lit it on fire because I want the president out of office.

00:17:16
Speaker 2: Okay, what do you think do you think he should face federal hate crime charges?

00:17:25
Speaker 1: I think he should face some kind of humiliation, yes, And I think he should face something in which he needs to serve to get back, maybe to get educated, to teach courses on African American history, something to get him up to speed. And if we can use his story robes to help get other people up to speed, then okay, we'll take this as a positive. But just officially as a PSA, burning crosses is bad.

00:17:54
Speaker 2: And it is intimidating, yes, and it has significant historical pain attached to it, and not even that historical. People have been burning crosses in people's lawns now more than you think. It's actually disturbing when you start looking up. We had an episode previously when this first came up, just I was appalled at how many and how recently this has continued to occur.

00:18:22
Speaker 1: So yeah, usually it's as intimidation, yes.

00:18:25
Speaker 2: And usually it's inter racial couples. They don't want, they don't want those kind in their neighborhood. And so that is the last several recently have been about a interracial couple.

00:18:37
Speaker 1: So yes, that's a big lawn outside of our place.

00:18:41
Speaker 2: Thank god, we don't have property that could. Yeah, we don't own land, so we're good.

00:18:46
Speaker 1: We just yeah, right, all right, Merlin, we're listening, all right, folks. We just want to get you up today and on the story we had been following. Always appreciate you spending some time with us for my dear Amy Robot, I am TJ. Holmes talks here the kitchen pas Ma Pat