What’s it like to date Carrie Bradshaw? Craig Bierko (Ray King) on his incredible scene partner Sarah Jessica Parker…

00:00:01
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte?

00:00:07
Speaker 2: Welcome back everybody to are you a Charlotte? We have Craig Vierco.

00:00:12
Speaker 1: Part two is so great as Ray King, as I'm sure you'll all remember. So when you you were doing the Music Man, you were at the tail end, so you were you simultaneously filming with us and still performing.

00:00:26
Speaker 3: I think so I may have. I may have taken the week off, but I don't. I didn't like to take too much time off because I always feel like it's, oh yeah.

00:00:35
Speaker 2: I feel horrible different. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:00:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, You're just like I'm on stay showing the show.

00:00:42
Speaker 2: I'm stay, you know, just yeah whatever, that's incredible.

00:00:45
Speaker 3: But I think I did take a week and then I think I don't know if if they bought me back or it was originally for two episodes, I don't remember.

00:00:53
Speaker 1: There was some kind of an extension situation. I feel like, yeah, because I think you were just so great and Sarah loved you so much, and I think everyone was so happy and it was just such a you really were a breath of fresh air at that point, you know, in terms of the storyline.

00:01:08
Speaker 2: But also your presence. And I do remember there.

00:01:11
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about the episode in a minute, but I do remember something, and I feel like this was something that you were doing in life, like it was kind of like a precursor to social media in a way, like you had a blog or a vlog or a something.

00:01:25
Speaker 2: Do you remember this was it?

00:01:28
Speaker 3: Well, I had a very crazy first episode of a talk show.

00:01:32
Speaker 2: Maybe that's what it was.

00:01:33
Speaker 1: You had something that we were like, Wow, he's so multifaceted.

00:01:38
Speaker 3: It might have been Was it bathing with Bierco? Yes, yeah, I'm so proud of that I did. I had this crazy idea of I love talk shows, but I also sometimes they really get lost with talk shows. And I remember I was joking around with a friend of mine and we were I think we were talking about Burt Reynolds used to have a talk show like in the eighties.

00:02:06
Speaker 2: Wow, he was trying.

00:02:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was. It was that sort of like he'd done that Stroker Race, post Stroker Race, the Lonnie What am I doing?

00:02:14
Speaker 2: Like, Okay, okay.

00:02:16
Speaker 3: I'm an aging guy. Sometimes I I don't know, I'm he was throwing all kinds of messages out to everybody. Wow about what he was and what he what his predilections were. Not that any of that matters, but it was a confusing Burt Reynolds period.

00:02:33
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, And I remember he.

00:02:34
Speaker 3: Had a talk show called Burt Reynolds Talking.

00:02:37
Speaker 2: With Something Okay, and it was and it.

00:02:41
Speaker 3: Was I remember watching it and going, oh my god, and no offense. But this was the feeling. I was like, every time I watched the show, I feel like, whenever it's over, I feel like I'm just getting off of a great gay cruise. It was so it was so like they shot him like they shot Barbara Walters and her specials or Dina, just this fuzz and he always had like a pastel sweater and flowers and that always made me laugh. And it was always like the same guests, Tom Delays, Jim Nighbors, and I was like a talk show or am I at you know what? Plato's retreat. It wasn't that bad, but it wasn't that I'm not that far off. It was. It was strange and it lasted like two episodes or something. This isn't right, this isn't right, this isn't right. But I remember that, and I remember joking around with a friend and thinking the only thing that would have been set me more ill at ease, I think was if if he was bathing his guests.

00:03:42
Speaker 2: Oh my god, where are we going?

00:03:44
Speaker 3: We actually started talking about like wouldn't that be funny? And maybe we were to shoot that. There was no This was pre internet, so I was like, where would I? I don't know, I would think I was just riffing. And the original idea was to sit on the side of a tub, like in a calf tan and just sort of like brush the person and asked the questions like you're asking me and I'm just and never reference it. And then I I had lunch with a friend of mine, this guy, Rob Cohen, comedy writer, came off The Simpsons, very funny guy, and I told him about the show. He said, just do it, just do it, and so he found some camera people for me. And I told my agent at the time, and she said, you think Malcolvich would do it? And I said, are you asking me why? I said, she goes, let me ask him and I said, my god, right, and so he said yes, and I had to go to the I had to coote is this too much? No?

00:04:43
Speaker 2: I love it? I love it? What on Earth?

00:04:46
Speaker 3: I went to the Beverly Hills Hotel where he was. He had a bungalow and I met with him and I'm sitting there and I explained the show to him. We'll be sitting in a tub that's too small for me and I'm going to be bathing you and I'm just gonna ask you. And at that point I wanted to just be straight, like, just you know, a ridiculous situation. I'm just going to ask you about Steppenwolf and you know, your fashion line and all that. And he said okay. I said, I want to tell you what it is again, just because I think I should have told you twice, but maybe you didn't hear it. So I told him again. He goes, yeah, that's okay, wow, and he showed up. It was shot a good friend of mine. May she rest in peace. The other carry in my life.

00:05:34
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, that's okay.

00:05:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, I get okay.

00:05:40
Speaker 1: Fisher, who was also on our show, Oh yeah, yeah, did you get at all?

00:05:47
Speaker 3: Not?

00:05:48
Speaker 2: No, No.

00:05:48
Speaker 1: We tried to leave her alone because I remember it was the LA episodes and everybody was so excited, but we didn't want to like overwhelm the situation.

00:05:57
Speaker 2: You know, she was unoverwhelmed, credible. We should we should have She lived in overwhelmed.

00:06:03
Speaker 3: That was that, that was that's her comfort.

00:06:05
Speaker 2: Zone, right right right?

00:06:06
Speaker 3: Wow?

00:06:07
Speaker 2: Wait, she was involved also, see, well.

00:06:11
Speaker 3: That's her tub because I was staying in her. I've been living on and off for a couple of years.

00:06:17
Speaker 2: Wow.

00:06:19
Speaker 3: And so uh I remember looking at that tub and it was hilarious because it was a bathroom, but it had room for three cameras and there was a piano in it because Carrie Fisher was a piano and so even if we wanted to have a band, whatever we wanted to do, but we had cameras. They're not big ones, but we had cameras. And it was crazy. It was almost like the room was crying out for it. I think Edith Edith Head built the house and then Betty Davis lived there.

00:06:46
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

00:06:48
Speaker 3: Wow, So we we did it. I think if you it's something you can show actors, because John Malcovich is so brilliant because it's a ridiculous situation, and the whole idea is, let's make something that's so awkward you almost don't want to look at it.

00:07:03
Speaker 2: Wow.

00:07:04
Speaker 3: And yeah, it was just it was just it was just seemed wrong, that's all. It was just wrong. And and and all he did was he wanted a cup of black co and some direction. And I said, I think it's Charlie Rose and instead of a wooden table. Just pretend this is the way these shows are done. You've done a million of these, Wow, and probably don't want to you know, whatever it is. Just treat it like a talk show. You went, okay, And that's exactly what we laughed once. But it was because I I it suddenly occurred to me that I'm I'm spooning John Malkovich.

00:07:40
Speaker 2: This is crazy. Oh my god, we have a picture my producer, he's so good.

00:07:49
Speaker 1: This is so crazy that we need a picture to fully understand what is happening.

00:07:54
Speaker 2: Wow, I have.

00:07:54
Speaker 3: Other pictures that are hilarious because oh, I'll give you a scoop. I'll give you a scoop. I can't believe I'm on the I'm on a show to talk about sex and the city. I'm talking about bathing with people.

00:08:03
Speaker 2: This is I need to know about this.

00:08:07
Speaker 3: We shot the thing, but I don't think we knew what we had. It took us a couple of weeks to edit it because we were we were like, is this an hour long thing? Because we had an hour of it? Wow, did we show the whole thing? Because a lot of the conversation was just interesting. He was talking about steppenwolfing. And the more we edited it, the more we realized, oh, because we were trying to figure out we know it's funny, but how do we sustain this. It's a weird idea, but how do we make it funny and comfort you know? And then we realized, oh, the guest is the straight man and I'm the idiot, and and we just came up with the questions start out normal and they get ridiculous. At one point, I'm just asking him to repeat words that sounds strange, you know, wow, whatever, and and he played along brilliantly. And then so for the and then we put it out and we didn't know what to expect, and it it was one of the early like viral videos.

00:09:01
Speaker 1: I know, okay, this is exactly because I remember Sir Jessica being like, you wouldn't believe what Craig Beerco.

00:09:06
Speaker 3: Was doing.

00:09:06
Speaker 2: We were like what, But yeah, it was.

00:09:09
Speaker 3: After but that was after the music man, So that would have come out at it.

00:09:12
Speaker 2: Got it. No, I think you guys were still chatting or whatever, right, yeah.

00:09:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think did we have our I think we had our blackberries at that point.

00:09:19
Speaker 2: I think this was the Jays of the black BlackBerry.

00:09:21
Speaker 3: I remember I would make fun of her all the time because I could never figure one out.

00:09:26
Speaker 2: No, she got me into it. We lived on those things. We lived on time.

00:09:31
Speaker 3: That feels like it feels like we're like in wagons or something. Blackberries, It's true.

00:09:36
Speaker 2: So wait, what happened with the bathtub show?

00:09:40
Speaker 3: Oh? It was. It was a big deal. And uh unfortunately I didn't see eyed eye with what Rob wanted to do because we shot a second one. And that was the thing is, for every one hundred letters we'd send out, we'd get maybe one response because who wants you.

00:09:58
Speaker 2: Know, Oh, I'd be scared to death.

00:10:00
Speaker 3: Yeah. So that's of course, that's why we was so good to have one episode in the can that we could show people anyway. Of all people, Richard Dreyfus saw it and said, I want to do it.

00:10:10
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I want to do it.

00:10:12
Speaker 3: And I almost drove off the road. I was like okay, great, you know, and he knew Carry, he knew Carrie, so this was all great. Wow, it all was falling into place. And he wouldn't take his shirt off, he wouldn't get undressed, so and so, you know, we we figured, well, we'll shoot it.

00:10:30
Speaker 1: If I can find it, I'll look while i'm here.

00:10:34
Speaker 3: But there is an episopere's a there's a second episode, which it's the first episode I'm very pleased with. It's so surreal and you don't it just sort of clobbers you over the head. And the second one was we thought, like, what do you do once the joke is? I mean, it's a very simple premise, right, I don't And I didn't know if it was a show. I thought, maybe it's a New Yorker cartoon, just one thing out. But we had Richard do it, and it's funnier. It's really funny. He was really funny. But he it looks like he's sitting in the tub with his clothes on. He must have been self conscious or something, right. But the most surreal thing, and probably my favorite part of the whole experience was his daughter and his wife had come up and they were standing in the bathroom, going take the shirt up, because I'm not going to take the shirt off. That might take it off. Wow. And I'm sitting in a tub going I thought being in a tub with John Malkovich was weird. But I'm in the middle of a family argument in a tub and I just loved my life. But it wasn't right, and I just thought, I'm glad he came. It was really nice to meet him. It was funny. I mean, we had the mashed potatoes.

00:11:46
Speaker 2: Crazy, super fascinating.

00:11:49
Speaker 3: He was doing Oh god, it was I had him repeat. I said the thing that line and Jaws. It made me want to be an actor. This was no accident. Can you do that? And he did it and I said, but do it like you did it? Oh, And he did it and I went, I don't know, I don't know what you're doing. And I just he played along with it. It was just a lot of awkward. It was just whatever was awkward.

00:12:13
Speaker 1: It sounds like a precursor to like so much of what is online at this point. And also it makes me think of the show that Zach galovan Akis did, like the Fern Show.

00:12:23
Speaker 2: Do you remember that?

00:12:24
Speaker 3: I was similar to that?

00:12:25
Speaker 2: Yeah? Wow, you were ahead of your time, Craig Well, I.

00:12:29
Speaker 3: Just loved you know what. I love Will Ferrell and Will Ferrell had sort of introduced this comedy of discomfort. You know, him walking into a room with tiny underwear arm he just doesn't notice it and he's just reaching past you and stuff like that. But it's safe because you know the underwear isn't going to come off, and you know, and true it was brilliant, but I thought what would be what's the next step? Wow? And I think it was to this day people were like, you're not naked in the tub, are you? And I'm like, it's John Malkovich, what do you what do you think? Which means nothing? And I just love that people were like you were then to this day they're just like, I love it, but that's weird, and I'm.

00:13:15
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, yeah, I mean it's super up.

00:13:18
Speaker 3: I want for you to feel weird.

00:13:20
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:13:20
Speaker 3: That was great. Wow, became this huge thing. It got away, you know, like the New York Times and then people writing saying they wanted to be on it. And I met with Laurene Michael Oh yeah, and I'm like this is crazy. Wow. And Lauren Michaels is saying I can't tell Andy Sandberg at the time was in the cask. He goes, I can't tell Andy Sandberg that he can't have the last sketch in the show because some guy in California. I said, yeah, I don't know why I'm here, and I just said, this is this can't I don't know where this would fit into your show. I love your show. And I said, can I just use my ten minutes to ask you questions? He said sure.

00:13:58
Speaker 2: Wow, Oh that's a great story.

00:14:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, I loved it.

00:14:02
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, super fascinating. You're very very interesting. I knew this, but.

00:14:09
Speaker 2: I'd love Yeah, I'd love to see. I'd love to see. I knew there was something.

00:14:13
Speaker 1: Where I was like, he did something really odd after and I couldn't remember what it was. So thank you so much. Let's talk about Samantha for a second. This would be the beginning of Samantha trying to have a relationship with a woman, which I don't even know. I know, like, well, I don't know what led to this decision to do this. We're gonna have to ask Michael Patrick when he comes back. But and then I don't know how we got Sonia Raga of all people like wow, wow, And it's interesting because she's you know. They meet at the art gallery and she wants to buy her work, and then she really is she's gay because the ladies around her.

00:15:02
Speaker 2: And then she goes to her.

00:15:04
Speaker 1: Studio and they do art together, which is interesting, and then there's kind of a vibe. But then Samantha doesn't say, oh I am not into women.

00:15:12
Speaker 2: She says I'm not a relationship person, right.

00:15:15
Speaker 1: Which is interesting, and Sonya Brugel looks so crestfallen and I for me, when I was watching it, I thought there was so much kind of subtext about what lesbians want, right, because Sonia Braga could have been like, well, I'm not a relationship person either, exactly right, right, But the thought was like, oh, no, relationships are like what this character was, right, And I guess it is because then there's there's some.

00:15:38
Speaker 3: That's ever been laid out or hinted to before that she might have an interest.

00:15:42
Speaker 1: In her, not that I'm aware of, I mean, except that she just kind of was interested in whatever, right, Like her thing is like I'm sexual and I'm free, you know what I mean. So from that perspective, it doesn't make sense. She says something like, you know, I've done the women thing, but it's mostly.

00:15:58
Speaker 2: Been with a man and a woman or whatever.

00:16:00
Speaker 1: So it's it is very interesting, and I still I'm basically watching this show as though I've never seen it.

00:16:06
Speaker 3: At this point.

00:16:07
Speaker 1: It is I don't remember any of this, this section of our show.

00:16:12
Speaker 2: I don't know.

00:16:12
Speaker 1: If I was just really tired, I don't know, I don't remember it, but it's super interesting to watch.

00:16:17
Speaker 2: I don't I don't know what's going to happen.

00:16:19
Speaker 1: I know they're going to try, but it's also interesting because Sonia Braga is just such an interesting actress and so so different.

00:16:28
Speaker 3: Beautiful, yeah, gorgeous. I used to just stand there. I had to like with you guys. I was always just putting my jaw back.

00:16:35
Speaker 2: Oh.

00:16:36
Speaker 3: I was sitting at the craft service table trying not to drool.

00:16:41
Speaker 1: That's so nice. I think we were just very excited that a new man had shown up finally, finally for Carrie, but also in general, you know what I mean, because for a while we used to have like revolving, revolving, revolving, and then we got into these kind of longer storylines, right, yeah, which on the one hand, as an actor is wonderful, right, like you're just digging in. But on the other hand, there's something fun about having new people.

00:17:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, there's it's it's it's both of those things. It's just fun to be on a show with a that it's like a carousel like that, people coming in and out, some staying longer than others.

00:17:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's.

00:17:16
Speaker 3: Worth it if it's worth it, Yes.

00:17:18
Speaker 2: Yes, definitely, definitely the rest.

00:17:20
Speaker 3: Of feed your core cast, they're the people were really watching.

00:17:25
Speaker 2: That's true.

00:17:25
Speaker 1: But I also think, like with you guys especially, I was just thinking about kind of the joys of being an actor and having chemistry with somebody.

00:17:34
Speaker 3: It's like it right, I couldn't have guessed. Well, you know, you're all very winning and like that's why you're on the show and like, but but sometimes you walk into a room with somebody who's you're like, in your mind they're your best friend, but it's you realize it's a part, it's a role. You're not that person. Yes, and I didn't find her necessary. She was very approachable. I don't know that she would have remembered. We did another movie. There was a movie called Til There Was You we were both in, but we didn't cross pads on it at all, and that was a few years ago. Wow beforehand, but pretty forgettable movie. Jean triple Horn.

00:18:15
Speaker 2: Wow. Dylan McDermott, No way, I don't even think I've seen this.

00:18:20
Speaker 3: They were the Tracy and hepburn of the of the movie. But Sarah Desta Parker had the you know, attention getting roll of the ex girlfriend. Oh got it, she got to be rich. I remember. I just remember a scene in a restaurant where she was being really funny, okay, and I think we stood next to each other for a second, but we didn't really you know, and so I didn't know what to expect, and maybe based on that experience, I thought, maybe she's going to be like a movie star and it's just going to be a gig. But it wasn't. The minute I came in, I was like, actually, during the meeting, I got it. She's very smart and so whatever whatever she needed to draw out of me let her dry out, which was this I think just sort of somebody who I think he just needed to be likable and he needed to have his interests and really like her. And I think it's a bit of a fake out, you know, until he opens the door and he's like, I don't know what shirt to put put on, and then it just all starts unraveling.

00:19:20
Speaker 2: I know, which is kind of sad, kind of sad.

00:19:23
Speaker 3: It is kind of sad, but I always appreciate it in a way that it didn't have to be. And also that is the fight. It is that ridiculous. That was a tough scene though, because he's his mind starts, it starts sparking, and it feeds on itself. You know, once you get going like the once, it's not like you can unscatter yourself if you got to like sit down or you know, there are ways to work through it. But to keep talking about whatever the obsession of the set, it's like you're leaping from obsession to obsession.

00:19:57
Speaker 2: Interesting.

00:19:58
Speaker 3: So he was talking about like why is there no skeet shooting in New York? Oh? You know what? I made fish like? And it was a bitch to memorize because nothing had any you know, memorizing lists is the worst. They have nothing to do. And it really was like, I like, Swordfish, have you been to the baseball game? And it all had to be and you couldn't just do it like a joke. It had to be you know, do you like sort of.

00:20:21
Speaker 2: Specific I wanted to ask about the git.

00:20:24
Speaker 3: Yeah. So there was all this sort of and it was really weird because, like I said, and this was another thing I got from Carrie Fish. It was lead with whatever your thing is, you know, like she she That's the way she always was. And it was so inspiring, you know that that you know, she used to say, I used to get awards for acting. Now I get them from being nuts. But she wasn't nuts. It was it was. It was something that she normalized for herself, but most importantly for other people. She really made a dent in this world. It was like Michael J. Fox is doing now and and that was important and it was important for me, Like I thought, I did think I want to do this, but I'm not going to let them make fun of it. And it never came up. Oh, I'm so glad it never came up. It was it was. It was funny in the way that life is funny, and it is funny, but it was it also was it was properly sad. At the end. I was glad that they didn't just make it a you know, yeah, showay joke like, oh he is, that's what that was his problem, I think it was. And the way she played it, they showed her walking home. Yeah, and it was a genuine disappointment. Gravity. I really thought that was It's one of the great things about the show is it just didn't go and next week's episode like it.

00:21:43
Speaker 2: Had resonance is a good word. Absolutely true, Absolutely true.

00:22:00
Speaker 1: I just want to say thank you, thank you for joining us, but also thank you for being part of our show that I love so much, and you're part so great.

00:22:10
Speaker 3: When you guys, I think I don't know which movie it was, And then when you guys did the sequel to the series one day, you were shooting literally across from my apartment down well, I was down on Horatio.

00:22:24
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I.

00:22:25
Speaker 3: Don't know if you were there, but there was something the show was shooting at the Whitney.

00:22:32
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I was there. I was there. We were all there. Oh my god.

00:22:36
Speaker 3: And I had had a thought when I think when you guys were doing that, maybe it was the third or I don't remember which movie was, but I just thought, I want to pitch this idea and I don't even want to be paid because it's nothing, and I just think it's a funny idea, which was Harry's walking between scenes. See literally wouldn't have change anything. But she's walking from one thing to another, looks in a storefront and there's Ray like looking at a cannon too, and their eyes meet and he goes like that and she goes in. She goes, Ray, how how are you? How have you been? I'm great. I think of you from time to time, and you actually think is he going to be? And then she goes, it's funny, you know. I don't know if you remember big mister big and starts and then looks up and I'm gone, and I literally across the street. I've seen somebody else that I know. Just a quick add cameo.

00:23:28
Speaker 2: Again, I'm gonna.

00:23:29
Speaker 3: I was gonna run over to the whitney, and I thought, I can't be the guy pitching a part.

00:23:35
Speaker 2: Oh, but it would have been so cute. You should have just come say hi.

00:23:38
Speaker 3: I should have said, you should have.

00:23:40
Speaker 2: We were there for a long time. We were there for a long time.

00:23:42
Speaker 3: That was a heavy time though too. I also I didn't. I think the reason I didn't was because, uh, there was there was some press about like we're not going it's not gonna you know, the world has changed, so it's not gonna be the happy, go lucky, let's get shoes.

00:23:59
Speaker 2: You know, say that that's true, that's not what.

00:24:02
Speaker 3: That's how what they said. That was clib but but but they they did say, it's not it's not going to be it's not going to be the same tone. It's not it's a it's they really wanted to find the gravity of where would these people be and time is going on, so there is that element And I thought, I don't know that I like even going into the room as a as a guy who would be associated with the last.

00:24:27
Speaker 1: True that we could have used your energy like.

00:24:32
Speaker 3: Hindsight. But of course this is going to be like oh, it's going to be shot like you know, handheld, and it's going to be very important like the O you know at that point, so I thought, the last thing they need is the you know you're speak. But I didn't. It was it was an impulse. It wasn't I get it.

00:24:51
Speaker 1: But we would have loved to see you. It's always fine time when you guys come back. I mean, I don't know if we'll ever come back but who knows what this jacks in space?

00:25:00
Speaker 2: Sex and space. I love it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you could do whatever we want.

00:25:04
Speaker 1: That'd be fun, that'd be fine. Okay, wait, I have one more question that I can't forget to ask you. It's a little weird, but would you describe yourself Craig as a Charlotte.

00:25:17
Speaker 3: I think I would because of all the you know, yours was the one everybody I know that it's a trope. Yeah, you're a carrier, right, I wouldn't know. I like to think of myself as a full, rich human being, right, you know. Contradictions, Sure, I contain multitudes, of course. I felt like I knew who you know. Yes, it's exceptionally well written, but I could identify. I could almost guess how every character was going to react to things, and that it was always a pleasant surprise because it was written smartly, and they wouldn't. But I knew the characters, and I don't feel like I was able to pigeonhole Charlotte that way. In that way, I like to think that I am a Charlotte. I love it because I don't, you know, I don't feel like I fit into any category. It used to frustrate the hell out of me, and now it just frustrates at of me. But no, I honestly, I know, I know it was I know that there were differences that that's that's that your character apart, and maybe it was just the situations that seemed a little bit more grounded sometimes.

00:26:26
Speaker 2: Oh thank you, that's so nice.

00:26:29
Speaker 3: And and the way that you played it too. It was always just a very I couldn't I couldn't figure. I wasn't ahead of the character, is what I'm saying.

00:26:38
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you.

00:26:39
Speaker 1: I mean I think some of that really I have to credit Michael Patrick with because I think he would envision her arc in such a way that it was really grounded, and then I would just trust him, you know, and it always would kind of veer around in ways that I wouldn't even see coming. But yet her self was always the same, meaning like ground grounded.

00:27:01
Speaker 3: You know.

00:27:02
Speaker 2: Well, you were a joy. Thank you so so much much.

00:27:05
Speaker 3: It's my pleasure. It really nice to get to talk to you.

00:27:09
Speaker 2: I know, thank you.

00:27:10
Speaker 3: I feel like I've been associated with you. But it's like that's my younger sister. By the time she was born, I was in college.

00:27:18
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, not at all, not at all, but also, yeah, it is that frustrating thing where like I didn't always get to connect with everybody, you know. Yeah, yeah, but it's nice to get to do so.

00:27:30
Speaker 3: Now I'm glad you're doing it.

00:27:32
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you. I'm glad that you joined us. You added so much, Thank you so much.