Sept. 5, 2026
We Were Supposed To Meet In Mexico, Instead We Met At His Husband’s Funeral
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RSS Feed Our dear, late friend and guardian angel, PR guru Howard Bragman had just invited us to meet the new man in his life on a trip to Puerto Vallarta, Mexico. Howard was offering us a safe space, away from the paparazzi and nosy tabloid reporters, after a particularly tough day negotiating our exit from ABC. Howard wanted us to meet the man he said he was going to marry one day, Mike Maimone, but God had other plans. Just days after accepting his offer, Howard suddenly passed from an acute and deadly form of leukemia, but the day before he passed, Mike proposed and the two married at Howard’s hospital bedside. We eventually did meet Mike, a few weeks later at Howard’s memorial service, and now he’s become a forever friend to us. Mike has penned a book detailing his beautiful love story with Howard, honoring the man we all miss each and everyday. Our conversation with Mike Maimone on his book, “Guess What? I Love You."
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00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hey there, folks.
00:00:02
Speaker 2: It is Saturday, September 5th, and we don't get to say this a whole lot, but we're very excited for you to hear from our guest who we met at a funeral. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. We met him at a funeral in robes who were actually supposed to meet him at his engagement. This is a hell of a story, a hell of a guy that we only know because of another hell of a guy. That blessed our lives.
00:00:30
Speaker 3: That's right.
00:00:30
Speaker 4: Many of you have heard us talk about who we've described as our guardian angel, the late and great Howard Bragman. Professionally, he was a public relations guru, but personally, I think it's fair to say he was our personal lifesaver at a time we needed him the most.
00:00:50
Speaker 2: He was a guardian angel to us, as we say, and just weeks before that, Ish kind of hit the fan for us over at ABC and Good Morning America and some very nasty headlines about us. We bumped into him and Howard reentered our lives of all places at a wedding, at a wedding of a mutual friend. And we reconnected. But then a few weeks later, of course, things happened. He reaches out to us and this started happening. really rose for the next couple of months, a back and forth and a reacquaintance and really a beautiful growth of a relationship that we had been missing for quite some time. And then as soon as we got it, it was gone.
00:01:32
Speaker 4: Yeah, he entered our lives at a time we didn't even know we were about to need him more than ever before. We were leaning on him, his wisdom, his comfort, his care. And then he invites us to come and share this story exciting place, Puerto Vallarta, that we had never been to with a man who he had been in love with for the past year. He was excited to introduce us to what he called his forever guy, the guy who he just knew he was going to marry one day. So yeah, we thought we were going to get to meet Mike Momoni in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico. What we didn't know is Mike Momoni had plans of his own to propose to Howard during that trip.
00:02:18
Speaker 2: That trip never happened for all of us because Howard Bragman died in February of 2023. Just about 11 days, I believe it was, after we last saw him and visited him at his home in Los Angeles. And it came on suddenly, something that he thought was initially just an issue or an irritation in his mouth that he was actually going to a dentist for. But turns out they found that he had leukemia. And in only a very short time after we saw him, he ended up in the hospital and he never left the hospital. But while in the hospital the day before he died, he married the love of his life, Mike Mamone. And Mike Mamone later rose. We got a chance to talk to him via text there for a little while when everything was going on with Howard. But the first time It's odd, Robes, the first time you meet somebody who's at a funeral service.
00:03:10
Speaker 4: Yeah, especially when you thought that you were going to meet him at a beautiful location, come to find out he was going to propose. And yeah, we would have possibly gone from reuniting with Howard at a wedding to then being there with him at his very own wedding. Instead, we met Mike Mamone at Howard's funeral in Los Angeles. And Mike wrote a book called honoring the man that we will always regard as our guardian angel.
00:03:40
Speaker 3: The name of his book is guess what? I love you.
00:03:43
Speaker 4: And here now is our powerful and beautiful conversation with Howard's forever guy, Mike Mamone.
00:03:51
Speaker 3: And Mike, it is such a pleasure to see you again.
00:03:55
Speaker 4: It's been, it's been a couple of years and we know where we saw you last.
00:04:01
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
00:04:02
Speaker 5: Um, I wish we would have met for the first time in a little happier circumstances, but I was really grateful that you all have been remembering my late husband Howard with me, and so thanks for having me.
00:04:14
Speaker 2: You know, it's crazy to think we met you at a funeral. The time we spent with you was at a memorial service. That's weird. I haven't really put it in those terms and to say out loud, but we know him through that.
00:04:27
Speaker 4: Yes, and Mike, I also realized we were supposed to meet you. Oof.
00:04:33
Speaker 3: In Puerto Vallarta. We were supposed to meet.
00:04:35
Speaker 4: You at what now, after reading your book, I realize was going to be your proposal to Howard Bragman. You were going to be proposing to him on that trip that we were lucky enough to be invited to, and we had all of these plans that we were going to be hanging out with you and Howard and all of your friends, and it was just a surreal experience to unfortunately instead meet you at his funeral. It's hard to get our heads around still even after these few years to realize things unfolded so quickly and so tragically.
00:05:12
Speaker 3: It took all of our breaths away.
00:05:13
Speaker 4: And I don't think we've caught our breaths when it comes to thinking about how that all happened and how quickly it all happened.
00:05:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a difficult thing to process.
00:05:23
Speaker 5: It's like we were supposed to be there celebrating life with Howard.
00:05:28
Speaker 1: And then you all went.
00:05:29
Speaker 5: There graciously because that's what he wanted. he really, he was in the hospital, on the phone, taking care of his loved ones, his friends and family, and just making sure everyone was as okay as possible while he was in the darkest time of his life, so he wanted that for his friends to go down there and to celebrate life in his name, you know, just live it up, because that's what he did, and yeah, so I'm glad you all did that, and Unfortunately, then, yeah, we ended up meeting at his memorial service.
00:06:04
Speaker 2: Mike, can you tell us, what was that time like? We were only on the phone with him when he was in the hospital. What were those? And I believe you actually sent us a message that said you had to take his phone from him. But we've never actually had a chance to have this conversation those days in the hospital. What were those like?
00:06:25
Speaker 5: Well, I think the biggest takeaway for me is that the way that Howard lived his life is the way he left it. And that was inspiring for me when I finally had time to process it because he went in determined to fight cancer. I will never know what transpired that made him flip fairly quickly from I'm fighting this, we need the rest of our lives together to after we get married, I'm ready to say goodbye. I think he just realized that I think he had some really difficult nights and then realized, uh, for the small amount of life he would be given and the, the, the, the way he would be living those months, he just didn't, he didn't want to go through it. He just wanted to get married and then say goodbye. Uh, so for me, it was excruciating to go from those two things from Howard is.
00:07:25
Speaker 1: In this and we're going to.
00:07:27
Speaker 5: Have a happily ever after to, I had to come around to support his decision.
00:07:34
Speaker 1: So that, and not being in his head, I'll never know.
00:07:37
Speaker 5: What that was like, but the end of it was a lesson to live our lives fully and completely and give more than we take so that when you're ready to face down that moment, you can go with.
00:07:53
Speaker 1: Grace and confidence and courage.
00:07:56
Speaker 5: And he ended up just tending to us, tending to his loved ones more than he was.
00:08:01
Speaker 1: Thinking about himself.
00:08:03
Speaker 4: Mike, you write about that moment when he had this tough night that you didn't realize how tough it was. And when he said no, no to more treatment, no to more chemo, one of the reasons he gave was, I've known true love. I've lived my life. I've done everything I set out to do. And he, in a way, attributed part of his decision to having met you, to having known you, to having loved you, and to feel that peace at being able to say, I don't need to suffer for another day because I've already experienced what we're here on earth to do, to love another person truly.
00:08:52
Speaker 3: What was that moment like?
00:08:55
Speaker 5: I think it took me months to process the gravity of that situation and the meaning of that situation. Um, and just the gratitude that he felt was so inspiring to me. Um, I maybe still haven't fully processed what I meant to Howard because I tend to focus on how much he meant to me. And I mean, he changed my life completely in so many ways. Uh, just the, the thing I write in the book is my year of yes. I mean, he turned it into a lifetime of yes, just opening up a possibility mindset and just keeping my, my heart and mind open to things that come my way. And, uh, so yeah, I just, I, I guess I have gratitude in return. Just, I, I feel lucky that we had that time. And yeah, being special to a man who accomplished so much and meant so much to so many, that just, yeah, it means a lot to me.
00:09:47
Speaker 2: But Mike, did you have any anger? Were you pissed at him a little bit that you were looking forward to, yeah, we're going to fight this thing. And then to have him going, I'm at peace.
00:09:56
Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
00:09:57
Speaker 5: It was, you know, it was one of those, those mixes of emotion. There was some anger in there, some frustration, a lot of sadness. Uh, but yeah, I wanted him, I wanted him to keep, to keep fighting. And I think I just, I, I knew it, it wasn't about me, you know, this was his decision.
00:10:14
Speaker 1: And so, I think for a few days I really hoped that he.
00:10:19
Speaker 5: Would come around, that some test or some treatment would give us hope. So I kept thinking in my mind, this is going to change and we're going to get married and he's going to beat cancer. So, yeah, I'd say there's a lot of anger, but there's also just a lot of hope that he would change his mind.
00:10:47
Speaker 4: And I know, Mike, you ended up, he was talking about it, but you technically officially proposed to him there in the hospital. You write about going to get the marriage license, about it being expedited because Howard knew some people.
00:11:03
Speaker 2: That's all Howard.
00:11:04
Speaker 3: He knew a lot of people.
00:11:06
Speaker 1: He knew some people.
00:11:06
Speaker 4: He was able to expedite the marriage license. You get married there in the hospital. And you all had only been together at that point for one year, correct? And I say only, but that is a pretty quick period of time to feel as intensely as the two of you did. But that whirlwind romance and getting engaged and married in the hospital.
00:11:31
Speaker 3: I cannot imagine....
00:11:33
Speaker 4: How that must've felt, what you had in your mind, what it was going to be like, what it was going to look like.
00:11:38
Speaker 3: And then what it actually was.
00:11:40
Speaker 4: Can you, from the moment he was diagnosed with leukemia until the moment he passed, how long was that stretch?
00:11:48
Speaker 1: It was 10 days.
00:11:50
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:11:51
Speaker 5: He had been sort of feeling under the weather for a few weeks, but even then it was just, it was like a lightning strike. And, uh, The thing I referenced in the book that I did not want to hear one more time was that it was like a med school final exam case because like everything that they did on one system was affecting the other systems of his body.
00:12:11
Speaker 1: So it was like there.
00:12:13
Speaker 5: Just wasn't a path forward, even though the oncologist kept insisting there was. There wasn't an acceptable path forward for Howard.
00:12:22
Speaker 2: Howard, I mean, Mike, I don't know if we ever told you this, but Howard called me from the hospital, the first thing he said to me, and I was confused. How did I look to you when you saw me last? I mean, he didn't even say hi on the phone. I picked up. He said, how did I look to you when you saw me last? Because he couldn't believe that his health had turned so quickly. Did you see a path forward? He said he didn't see one. The oncologist might have. But did you see in reality that there was still some option you could Try.
00:12:58
Speaker 5: Yeah, because I hadn't had that experience yet, I think that he had seen loved ones go through this and battle cancer and saw how tough the last few months of their lives were, and he just didn't want that. And I hadn't had that experience. So, yes, I was definitely thinking, like, what are you talking about? Like, we can do this. But he knew in his heart that he wanted to go out. Like he said, I'm going out a star.
00:13:24
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:13:25
Speaker 5: You know, like he wanted to go out feeling good. And at the end of the day, I have to admire that and just remember to live every day so that when I'm staring down that moment that I can do the same thing.
00:13:36
Speaker 4: You know, that is like I could get choked up because that is such a gift to be able to know that you lived your life so fully. so freely, that you're able to say, I'm good, I've.
00:13:49
Speaker 3: Done it all.
00:13:50
Speaker 4: And like, leave it to Howard to put it like that, because we had been with him, what, a few days before this all unraveled, and I remember he didn't seem he didn't seem unlike himself. He took a nap, I remember that, but I thought, yeah, you know, who knows. He took a nap while we hung out, and then he came back, and he begged us to spend the night that night, and he was protecting us in this moment. I know you know the story, but we were literally being chased by paparazzi. He was putting in phone calls to Harvey Levin with TMZ to figure out who was chasing us. He was there trying to protect us, and I look back now, and I was like, why didn't we spend the night He wanted us to, he wanted to continue to protect us.
00:14:34
Speaker 3: That was who he was. He was like a papa bear.
00:14:36
Speaker 4: Uh-huh.
00:14:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely.
00:14:39
Speaker 5: I've heard so many testaments to him being this like protector figure. And it's interesting because to me, it was just, he's just my big bear, you know.
00:14:50
Speaker 1: Like I didn't really need that.
00:14:52
Speaker 5: And I actually wanted to be that for him because it felt like you know, stories that I knew from some of his past relationships, it felt like he just never had that protector in his life, because.
00:15:02
Speaker 1: He was always playing that role.
00:15:04
Speaker 5: So I was in the right phase of my life after a couple frogs, to be like, you know what, I want to be I want to be that guy for for Howard.
00:15:14
Speaker 2: Okay, can you I don't know if it's what was the entire proposal planned? What did you plan to do in Puerto Vallarta? And I guess we would have all been there witnessing it.
00:15:28
Speaker 1: You would have been there, yeah. Yes. Well, so his birthday was coming up.
00:15:33
Speaker 5: So I was going to wait till his birthday, wait till everyone was gathered around the dinner table and just like stand up and say, I have something to say. And in front of all of his friends, just tell him that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with him.
00:15:49
Speaker 1: So, yeah, that was the plan at least. What do they say? Man makes plans.
00:15:55
Speaker 3: God laughs. Yes. I'm curious.
00:15:58
Speaker 4: You all referred to each other and I know you dedicated your book to my forever guy.
00:16:03
Speaker 3: You were 41 when you met. He was 66. So there was a 25 year age gap. Did I get that right?
00:16:10
Speaker 4: What made Howard? What was it about Howard that made him almost immediately? I know you all played around a little bit. You have a bunch of your text messages in the book, but pretty quickly you all realized this wasn't just a fling. This wasn't just an infatuation. What was it about Howard that made you ready and aware that he was your forever guy?
00:16:35
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, there's I definitely learned the word beshert from him. you know, like soulmate. And I hadn't believed in that, but, uh, now I do think that there's some version of that. That's true because we just, it just clicked and there was a 25 year age gap, but I almost feel like it was in the other direction because I was definitely the more mature one in the relationship. He's like a teenager at heart, uh, very mischievous, uh, dirty sense of humor. Like, so I was always just like mortified by some of the things he would say.
00:17:08
Speaker 3: He was cracking jokes in the hospital bed.
00:17:11
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. Yeah.
00:17:12
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:17:12
Speaker 1: He, he kept a sense of humor until the last minute. Um, so yeah, it's, uh, I don't know.
00:17:18
Speaker 5: It's just, we ostensibly, there were so many differences, our age, we were long distance because I was living in Nashville when we met, uh, you know, our pace of life, because I think he was kind of cutting back on client on his client list and kind of trying to just.
00:17:34
Speaker 1: Work with the people he wanted to work with.
00:17:37
Speaker 5: And, you know, I'm just all systems go still, because I'm in my 40s. And I'm just still, you know, hungry and trying to make things happen. And so those things on paper don't look good. But once we really dug in, and we started talking, we just had so many of the same core values, so many similar experiences and taste and music and pop culture. And it's just, We didn't even think about the differences after my initial walls came down. Then we really just, you know, we were inseparable.
00:18:08
Speaker 2: When you find your forever person, and maybe you can speak to people who lose the love of their life in a breakup, that can happen. You lost it, obviously, in a much different way. But how do you get, when you finally find the person you believe is your person, what steps do you even begin to take to get past that? that to try to move on from losing somebody you waited your whole life for?
00:18:35
Speaker 5: But I think the, the subtle vocabulary change I've learned is, is not moving on, but moving forward because we take them with us. Um, so it's, uh, I, for me, I feel blessed because I'm able to create and I didn't even, I mean, I've always liked writing, but I didn't fancy myself an author. Um, But musically, I just immediately went to learning the songs that were really important to us, learning songs that were special for him, and just recording my feelings and putting them into the piano and making this tribute album for him. And it was a devastating process. I've never cried that much while recording anything. And luckily, I can record myself because that would have been super awkward to be in a recording studio with an engineer around. I'm just like, hold on, I need another break. I'm going to crawl under this piano and cry.
00:19:32
Speaker 1: For a little bit.
00:19:33
Speaker 5: So I was able to just, you know, sit in my own studio and do that and work through it. So I guess my message to other people would be to find what that is for you.
00:19:45
Speaker 1: You know what is.
00:19:46
Speaker 5: Your outlet because we have to address the grief before we can start to heal and so it's you know if it's gardening or painting or writing or whatever it is it's just whatever way you can feel like you're connecting to that person you've lost I think it's best to just dive in and and really really put yourself into that rather than trying to just keep yourself busy.
00:20:11
Speaker 4: Yeah, because speaking of the grieving process, I know this, forgive me, this will sound like a dramatic question, but it was a dramatic experience.
00:20:19
Speaker 3: You go from in your head and in your.
00:20:22
Speaker 4: Heart planning a proposal, thinking you're going to be planning a wedding, to literally within days planning a funeral.
00:20:32
Speaker 3: Mentally, how do you get through that?
00:20:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. I was in such shock. But I will say.
00:20:45
Speaker 5: Howard's network of friends and family and chosen family is immense and strong. I mean, it just felt like I had this community.
00:20:55
Speaker 1: To catch me.
00:20:56
Speaker 5: And, you know, Scott Morrow, who did the majority of the planning for his celebration of life, you know, he took care of all of it. And I was just sort of sitting in those meetings in a daze, like, I could not believe this was happening to me.
00:21:10
Speaker 1: It was so surreal.
00:21:12
Speaker 5: But everybody stepped up and I was told a couple of close friends said, you know, be careful because right now everybody's checking in on you and that's going to go away really soon. And you're going to be left by yourself in that house. And the thing about Howard is that wasn't true. People still check in on me and it's been three years.
00:21:31
Speaker 1: He meant so much.
00:21:33
Speaker 5: To so many people that the lasting legacy is that the family's still out there. And so people will text me randomly, just like, I had a thought about Howard. I just wanted to reach out and say.
00:21:46
Speaker 1: Hi. His memory really, really continues.
00:21:50
Speaker 2: There is no question. It's kind of amazing to us how often we talk about Howard.
00:21:55
Speaker 3: Constantly.
00:21:56
Speaker 2: It is kind of amazing to think. And Mike, we have your your book here in front of us, Guess What?
00:22:02
Speaker 1: I Love You.
00:22:03
Speaker 2: Was this a part of your, I guess, catharsis, just like your music was? Or did you find that there is a community for you and maybe there are folks out there who need to hear what you went through because they're dealing with something similar?
00:22:20
Speaker 5: I think I came to that second point during the process and especially now that I'm on tour, like doing release shows and talking to people, I'm realizing that There are just so many people that we don't even realize are carrying grief with them every day.
00:22:35
Speaker 1: And it's hard.
00:22:36
Speaker 5: It's definitely a conversation ender if you're just like, yeah, I'm going through something and I lost whoever. And people don't want to talk about it. So I think that this process has become a way to put it right out front and talk to people. And one person at a show in San Francisco said he lost his husband because And he didn't have the words to grieve properly, but that my book and the record was helping give him a framework to put his emotions into. And that's, to me, that makes it worth the two and a half years of crying on the page, you know, just knowing that it's out there helping some other people.
00:23:27
Speaker 3: Oh, and it certainly does.
00:23:28
Speaker 4: I mean, people, the biggest thing is to know they're not alone, to know that other people have walked that walk and have managed to survive and eventually thrive. You were referencing this, how often we genuinely, Mike, say, God, I wish we could call Howard. I wish we could call him about, yes, professional things and what should we do, what shouldn't we do, but even about relationship issues.
00:23:53
Speaker 3: He was just this person who you trusted.
00:23:56
Speaker 4: He had walked the walk. He had lived so much life. He had seen so much and counseled so many. I can't think of anyone who the two of us would have trusted more with literally relationship problems, with helping us see common ground when we don't understand each other. That's what he did for so many people. I'm curious how... I can only imagine how many times during the day that you wish you could say something to him, that you wish you could ask him a question. Is there something you miss most about Howard that you think about daily?
00:24:33
Speaker 1: It's the hugs.
00:24:35
Speaker 5: He's a great hugger. Yeah, he's a big guy. It's just a big bear hug. Yeah, just being close. Those are the things that I don't think anyone... makes a movie or writes a book about it. It's those day-to-day simple things, just like the casual touch, just being near each other that I think stand out the most when that person isn't there anymore. So yeah, it's pretty, it's not like a very grand answer.
00:25:03
Speaker 3: But it's just those simple things.
00:25:06
Speaker 2: What is the, when do you, after going through that heartbreak, how do you ever begin to even think about it? or consider opening yourself up to love again.
00:25:18
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:25:20
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:25:20
Speaker 5: I definitely had a few people tell me like they're, you know, people like to tell you what's the right timeline. I'm sure you've all, you've had a lot of people tell you what's right and what's not right. But yeah, so I didn't know, I didn't know what to expect. I didn't know how people would react.
00:25:41
Speaker 1: It's, it's really awkward.
00:25:42
Speaker 5: You know, it's like how, How is Howard's family going to react if I meet somebody?
00:25:48
Speaker 1: What's the right thing to do? So it just, yeah, I just.
00:25:56
Speaker 5: Think that through like approaching the healing journey of writing and recording, I was just sort of like, I didn't even realize it, but just sort of opening my heart.
00:26:09
Speaker 1: To new love. And knowing that Howard told me at.
00:26:13
Speaker 5: The end, to find love again, even though I didn't want to hear it, I think helped me realize that there was another love in the future.
00:26:22
Speaker 3: And that's true love.
00:26:24
Speaker 4: Literally on his deathbed, he was worried about you, TJ. He was worried about his friends. He was worried about taking care of everyone else. And he made sure to let you know that he wanted you to find love again.
00:26:37
Speaker 3: That is true love.
00:26:38
Speaker 4: Do you remember? it's hard for me to even speak because that makes, I think, anyone who's loved someone so emotional to know that is the most beautiful gift you can give someone is to say, I love you so much.
00:26:52
Speaker 3: Even without me, I want you to be happy.
00:26:54
Speaker 4: And you're a young man.
00:26:55
Speaker 3: You're in your 40s. You have a lot of life to live.
00:26:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. You're right.
00:26:59
Speaker 5: I think that he just knew all the right things to say. And I think that's why so many people sought his advice. And probably from from living so much, like you said, from advising people.
00:27:12
Speaker 1: Um, but yeah, I, I think, I.
00:27:16
Speaker 5: Think there's just so many like kismet moments, so many God winks as I've come to say.
00:27:21
Speaker 1: And I think that like your experience when you.
00:27:23
Speaker 5: Shared, um, on your podcast about Howard, about having just sat right in front of him, I think at a wedding so you could reconnect. I mean, it's just, it's unbelievable how many things just kind of have to happen for, for, for things to fall into place.
00:27:38
Speaker 4: Yeah, we had known him for years and years and years, you at CNN, me at MSNBC, and then to have him, yes, just sit right behind us in that moment when we didn't know we were about to need him more than ever before in our lives.
00:27:52
Speaker 3: We actually reconnected, I.
00:27:55
Speaker 4: Believe it was about two weeks before our world blew up. And that is not coincidence.
00:27:59
Speaker 2: And by the way, Mike, we didn't reach out to him for help. When shit hit the van for us, our phone was blowing up, him offering that help. And that's just, that's Howard.
00:28:10
Speaker 1: That's how he was, yeah.
00:28:12
Speaker 4: And not for a paycheck, not because he wanted us to sign a retainer and employ him.
00:28:17
Speaker 3: He wouldn't accept a dime from us. It was just his heart.
00:28:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, he saw that love, I think.
00:28:23
Speaker 5: I think, like you said, when you're in a good place in your own life and you feel that love, I think that you can see it in others and be happy for them. Cause I've definitely been in the moments like after a breakup where I don't want to see that. I'm like, if I see a happy couple and I just had a bad breakup, I'm like, get that out of my face. Uh, but when you're in a good spot in your own life, I think that you're, you're able to recognize it in others and, and, and you just want to help, help support that.
00:28:49
Speaker 2: Mike, can I ask, what did you say to him when he told you to go find love again?
00:28:52
Speaker 5: I wonder what exactly I said. I think I just said, stop it. You know, like, I don't want to hear it, you know? Like, cause I didn't, I wasn't, I wasn't anywhere near that headspace. I still wanted him to, to turn it around, you know, but he was already thinking 10 steps ahead.
00:29:11
Speaker 1: As he usually did.
00:29:12
Speaker 4: Mike, at what point did you accept that he, he was going to die? I mean, it was so quick, but do you remember the point when you actually realized, holy hell, he's not going to make it?
00:29:26
Speaker 5: I think it was the day it happened. I think even through our wedding, I was, I was hoping. some miracle would happen. Um, so we, we had one night together as husbands, and then the next morning was when it started to take a real turn so I think that when he finally like shut his eyes I think and just the breathing slowed down I just realized like this is it and I just tried to get every moment I could you know next to him singing to him talking to him.
00:30:01
Speaker 4: Wow.
00:30:03
Speaker 2: Mike, man, it's hard to talk about Howard. How does he play in your world every day now, right? I mean, from the time you get up.
00:30:15
Speaker 1: In the morning. It's a funny thing you should ask that.
00:30:19
Speaker 5: So I have his picture by my bedside, and I wake up every morning and I say, good morning, Howard, I love you, and thank you. Because one of the things I've learned is just daily gratitudes are very important. Actually, a vocal coach told me that. So in the morning, one of my routines is this voice training thing. And one of the things is you hit the highest falsetto note you can, and then you say something you're grateful for, and you go for one note higher. And every morning, it's I thank Howard for the love and for trusting me with his story and his legacy and, and giving me the, the, the means to share it. Um, so yeah, I think it's just a daily gratitude and reflection on the love that we had and that continues to be around me.
00:31:08
Speaker 1: And, uh, and yeah, if you're wondering when.
00:31:11
Speaker 5: You said about new love, I actually did find somebody and it was a crazy story.
00:31:17
Speaker 1: He's also a widower and they knew Howard.
00:31:21
Speaker 5: Um, but Being a widower himself, he has his late husband on his side of the bed. So we both, you know, say good morning to our forever guys and thank them for introducing us.
00:31:34
Speaker 2: What the hell?
00:31:36
Speaker 3: That is so beautiful.
00:31:38
Speaker 4: There are four people in your relationship and you wouldn't have it any other way.
00:31:42
Speaker 1: And they respect it.
00:31:44
Speaker 2: And they respect it. Wow.
00:31:46
Speaker 1: Oh, Mike.
00:31:48
Speaker 2: Mike, when are you getting over to New York? We need to sit down and spend some time with you, man.
00:31:52
Speaker 5: Yeah, I would love that. Hopefully soon. I've got a new booking agent. We're doing some work on 2027, so I'm hoping I'll be out.
00:32:01
Speaker 1: There a bunch.
00:32:02
Speaker 4: Well, we would love to see you. We listened to your music today. We read your book. It is such a beautiful tribute, all of it, to honor someone who deserves to be remembered. And I love that every day starts with that gratitude.
00:32:21
Speaker 3: And I love you, Howard. I mean, that is as beautiful as it gets.
00:32:25
Speaker 4: And I think, look, a lot of people have experienced a loss, maybe not quite as... I mean, your story is... almost like a, tells like a movie. It's like a movie script. It doesn't even seem possible because it was, it was so quick, but it was so dramatic and it was so real. And I love how you have honored him and still been able to move forward with someone who understands.
00:32:49
Speaker 3: I think that gives people hope who might be in.
00:32:51
Speaker 4: A place where they don't see any, when they've lost someone that they truly loved and considered their forever person.
00:32:58
Speaker 5: Yeah, I hope so. Thank you for saying that. I think that that's, I honestly started the book just trying to.
00:33:04
Speaker 1: Tell Howard's story because he lived so much.
00:33:07
Speaker 5: I wanted to share that with the world. And then it sort of morphed into telling his story through the lens of our love story. So I really hope that that that's the lasting impression will be to, to give people, uh, some perspective.
00:33:20
Speaker 1: That there, there is a possibility out there for healing.
00:33:24
Speaker 4: Yep.
00:33:24
Speaker 3: What would Howard say about your new guy?
00:33:26
Speaker 1: Uh, Can I share that on the podcast? Okay. The second thing Howard would say about my new guy is just that he's really happy for us.
00:33:41
Speaker 3: I love that. I love that, Mike. Mike, thank you.
00:33:44
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for being so vulnerable and so real. Like your book, your music, and just this interview, I know will mean the world to so many people who are going through it right now.
00:33:57
Speaker 1: Thank you. Thanks, Amy. Thanks, TJ. I'm really, really grateful that you had me on the show. Good to see you, my brother.
00:34:02
Speaker 2: We'll see you in New York soon, all right?
00:34:03
Speaker 1: All right. Sounds good.
Speaker 1: Hey there, folks.
00:00:02
Speaker 2: It is Saturday, September 5th, and we don't get to say this a whole lot, but we're very excited for you to hear from our guest who we met at a funeral. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. We met him at a funeral in robes who were actually supposed to meet him at his engagement. This is a hell of a story, a hell of a guy that we only know because of another hell of a guy. That blessed our lives.
00:00:30
Speaker 3: That's right.
00:00:30
Speaker 4: Many of you have heard us talk about who we've described as our guardian angel, the late and great Howard Bragman. Professionally, he was a public relations guru, but personally, I think it's fair to say he was our personal lifesaver at a time we needed him the most.
00:00:50
Speaker 2: He was a guardian angel to us, as we say, and just weeks before that, Ish kind of hit the fan for us over at ABC and Good Morning America and some very nasty headlines about us. We bumped into him and Howard reentered our lives of all places at a wedding, at a wedding of a mutual friend. And we reconnected. But then a few weeks later, of course, things happened. He reaches out to us and this started happening. really rose for the next couple of months, a back and forth and a reacquaintance and really a beautiful growth of a relationship that we had been missing for quite some time. And then as soon as we got it, it was gone.
00:01:32
Speaker 4: Yeah, he entered our lives at a time we didn't even know we were about to need him more than ever before. We were leaning on him, his wisdom, his comfort, his care. And then he invites us to come and share this story exciting place, Puerto Vallarta, that we had never been to with a man who he had been in love with for the past year. He was excited to introduce us to what he called his forever guy, the guy who he just knew he was going to marry one day. So yeah, we thought we were going to get to meet Mike Momoni in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico. What we didn't know is Mike Momoni had plans of his own to propose to Howard during that trip.
00:02:18
Speaker 2: That trip never happened for all of us because Howard Bragman died in February of 2023. Just about 11 days, I believe it was, after we last saw him and visited him at his home in Los Angeles. And it came on suddenly, something that he thought was initially just an issue or an irritation in his mouth that he was actually going to a dentist for. But turns out they found that he had leukemia. And in only a very short time after we saw him, he ended up in the hospital and he never left the hospital. But while in the hospital the day before he died, he married the love of his life, Mike Mamone. And Mike Mamone later rose. We got a chance to talk to him via text there for a little while when everything was going on with Howard. But the first time It's odd, Robes, the first time you meet somebody who's at a funeral service.
00:03:10
Speaker 4: Yeah, especially when you thought that you were going to meet him at a beautiful location, come to find out he was going to propose. And yeah, we would have possibly gone from reuniting with Howard at a wedding to then being there with him at his very own wedding. Instead, we met Mike Mamone at Howard's funeral in Los Angeles. And Mike wrote a book called honoring the man that we will always regard as our guardian angel.
00:03:40
Speaker 3: The name of his book is guess what? I love you.
00:03:43
Speaker 4: And here now is our powerful and beautiful conversation with Howard's forever guy, Mike Mamone.
00:03:51
Speaker 3: And Mike, it is such a pleasure to see you again.
00:03:55
Speaker 4: It's been, it's been a couple of years and we know where we saw you last.
00:04:01
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
00:04:02
Speaker 5: Um, I wish we would have met for the first time in a little happier circumstances, but I was really grateful that you all have been remembering my late husband Howard with me, and so thanks for having me.
00:04:14
Speaker 2: You know, it's crazy to think we met you at a funeral. The time we spent with you was at a memorial service. That's weird. I haven't really put it in those terms and to say out loud, but we know him through that.
00:04:27
Speaker 4: Yes, and Mike, I also realized we were supposed to meet you. Oof.
00:04:33
Speaker 3: In Puerto Vallarta. We were supposed to meet.
00:04:35
Speaker 4: You at what now, after reading your book, I realize was going to be your proposal to Howard Bragman. You were going to be proposing to him on that trip that we were lucky enough to be invited to, and we had all of these plans that we were going to be hanging out with you and Howard and all of your friends, and it was just a surreal experience to unfortunately instead meet you at his funeral. It's hard to get our heads around still even after these few years to realize things unfolded so quickly and so tragically.
00:05:12
Speaker 3: It took all of our breaths away.
00:05:13
Speaker 4: And I don't think we've caught our breaths when it comes to thinking about how that all happened and how quickly it all happened.
00:05:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a difficult thing to process.
00:05:23
Speaker 5: It's like we were supposed to be there celebrating life with Howard.
00:05:28
Speaker 1: And then you all went.
00:05:29
Speaker 5: There graciously because that's what he wanted. he really, he was in the hospital, on the phone, taking care of his loved ones, his friends and family, and just making sure everyone was as okay as possible while he was in the darkest time of his life, so he wanted that for his friends to go down there and to celebrate life in his name, you know, just live it up, because that's what he did, and yeah, so I'm glad you all did that, and Unfortunately, then, yeah, we ended up meeting at his memorial service.
00:06:04
Speaker 2: Mike, can you tell us, what was that time like? We were only on the phone with him when he was in the hospital. What were those? And I believe you actually sent us a message that said you had to take his phone from him. But we've never actually had a chance to have this conversation those days in the hospital. What were those like?
00:06:25
Speaker 5: Well, I think the biggest takeaway for me is that the way that Howard lived his life is the way he left it. And that was inspiring for me when I finally had time to process it because he went in determined to fight cancer. I will never know what transpired that made him flip fairly quickly from I'm fighting this, we need the rest of our lives together to after we get married, I'm ready to say goodbye. I think he just realized that I think he had some really difficult nights and then realized, uh, for the small amount of life he would be given and the, the, the, the way he would be living those months, he just didn't, he didn't want to go through it. He just wanted to get married and then say goodbye. Uh, so for me, it was excruciating to go from those two things from Howard is.
00:07:25
Speaker 1: In this and we're going to.
00:07:27
Speaker 5: Have a happily ever after to, I had to come around to support his decision.
00:07:34
Speaker 1: So that, and not being in his head, I'll never know.
00:07:37
Speaker 5: What that was like, but the end of it was a lesson to live our lives fully and completely and give more than we take so that when you're ready to face down that moment, you can go with.
00:07:53
Speaker 1: Grace and confidence and courage.
00:07:56
Speaker 5: And he ended up just tending to us, tending to his loved ones more than he was.
00:08:01
Speaker 1: Thinking about himself.
00:08:03
Speaker 4: Mike, you write about that moment when he had this tough night that you didn't realize how tough it was. And when he said no, no to more treatment, no to more chemo, one of the reasons he gave was, I've known true love. I've lived my life. I've done everything I set out to do. And he, in a way, attributed part of his decision to having met you, to having known you, to having loved you, and to feel that peace at being able to say, I don't need to suffer for another day because I've already experienced what we're here on earth to do, to love another person truly.
00:08:52
Speaker 3: What was that moment like?
00:08:55
Speaker 5: I think it took me months to process the gravity of that situation and the meaning of that situation. Um, and just the gratitude that he felt was so inspiring to me. Um, I maybe still haven't fully processed what I meant to Howard because I tend to focus on how much he meant to me. And I mean, he changed my life completely in so many ways. Uh, just the, the thing I write in the book is my year of yes. I mean, he turned it into a lifetime of yes, just opening up a possibility mindset and just keeping my, my heart and mind open to things that come my way. And, uh, so yeah, I just, I, I guess I have gratitude in return. Just, I, I feel lucky that we had that time. And yeah, being special to a man who accomplished so much and meant so much to so many, that just, yeah, it means a lot to me.
00:09:47
Speaker 2: But Mike, did you have any anger? Were you pissed at him a little bit that you were looking forward to, yeah, we're going to fight this thing. And then to have him going, I'm at peace.
00:09:56
Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
00:09:57
Speaker 5: It was, you know, it was one of those, those mixes of emotion. There was some anger in there, some frustration, a lot of sadness. Uh, but yeah, I wanted him, I wanted him to keep, to keep fighting. And I think I just, I, I knew it, it wasn't about me, you know, this was his decision.
00:10:14
Speaker 1: And so, I think for a few days I really hoped that he.
00:10:19
Speaker 5: Would come around, that some test or some treatment would give us hope. So I kept thinking in my mind, this is going to change and we're going to get married and he's going to beat cancer. So, yeah, I'd say there's a lot of anger, but there's also just a lot of hope that he would change his mind.
00:10:47
Speaker 4: And I know, Mike, you ended up, he was talking about it, but you technically officially proposed to him there in the hospital. You write about going to get the marriage license, about it being expedited because Howard knew some people.
00:11:03
Speaker 2: That's all Howard.
00:11:04
Speaker 3: He knew a lot of people.
00:11:06
Speaker 1: He knew some people.
00:11:06
Speaker 4: He was able to expedite the marriage license. You get married there in the hospital. And you all had only been together at that point for one year, correct? And I say only, but that is a pretty quick period of time to feel as intensely as the two of you did. But that whirlwind romance and getting engaged and married in the hospital.
00:11:31
Speaker 3: I cannot imagine....
00:11:33
Speaker 4: How that must've felt, what you had in your mind, what it was going to be like, what it was going to look like.
00:11:38
Speaker 3: And then what it actually was.
00:11:40
Speaker 4: Can you, from the moment he was diagnosed with leukemia until the moment he passed, how long was that stretch?
00:11:48
Speaker 1: It was 10 days.
00:11:50
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:11:51
Speaker 5: He had been sort of feeling under the weather for a few weeks, but even then it was just, it was like a lightning strike. And, uh, The thing I referenced in the book that I did not want to hear one more time was that it was like a med school final exam case because like everything that they did on one system was affecting the other systems of his body.
00:12:11
Speaker 1: So it was like there.
00:12:13
Speaker 5: Just wasn't a path forward, even though the oncologist kept insisting there was. There wasn't an acceptable path forward for Howard.
00:12:22
Speaker 2: Howard, I mean, Mike, I don't know if we ever told you this, but Howard called me from the hospital, the first thing he said to me, and I was confused. How did I look to you when you saw me last? I mean, he didn't even say hi on the phone. I picked up. He said, how did I look to you when you saw me last? Because he couldn't believe that his health had turned so quickly. Did you see a path forward? He said he didn't see one. The oncologist might have. But did you see in reality that there was still some option you could Try.
00:12:58
Speaker 5: Yeah, because I hadn't had that experience yet, I think that he had seen loved ones go through this and battle cancer and saw how tough the last few months of their lives were, and he just didn't want that. And I hadn't had that experience. So, yes, I was definitely thinking, like, what are you talking about? Like, we can do this. But he knew in his heart that he wanted to go out. Like he said, I'm going out a star.
00:13:24
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:13:25
Speaker 5: You know, like he wanted to go out feeling good. And at the end of the day, I have to admire that and just remember to live every day so that when I'm staring down that moment that I can do the same thing.
00:13:36
Speaker 4: You know, that is like I could get choked up because that is such a gift to be able to know that you lived your life so fully. so freely, that you're able to say, I'm good, I've.
00:13:49
Speaker 3: Done it all.
00:13:50
Speaker 4: And like, leave it to Howard to put it like that, because we had been with him, what, a few days before this all unraveled, and I remember he didn't seem he didn't seem unlike himself. He took a nap, I remember that, but I thought, yeah, you know, who knows. He took a nap while we hung out, and then he came back, and he begged us to spend the night that night, and he was protecting us in this moment. I know you know the story, but we were literally being chased by paparazzi. He was putting in phone calls to Harvey Levin with TMZ to figure out who was chasing us. He was there trying to protect us, and I look back now, and I was like, why didn't we spend the night He wanted us to, he wanted to continue to protect us.
00:14:34
Speaker 3: That was who he was. He was like a papa bear.
00:14:36
Speaker 4: Uh-huh.
00:14:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely.
00:14:39
Speaker 5: I've heard so many testaments to him being this like protector figure. And it's interesting because to me, it was just, he's just my big bear, you know.
00:14:50
Speaker 1: Like I didn't really need that.
00:14:52
Speaker 5: And I actually wanted to be that for him because it felt like you know, stories that I knew from some of his past relationships, it felt like he just never had that protector in his life, because.
00:15:02
Speaker 1: He was always playing that role.
00:15:04
Speaker 5: So I was in the right phase of my life after a couple frogs, to be like, you know what, I want to be I want to be that guy for for Howard.
00:15:14
Speaker 2: Okay, can you I don't know if it's what was the entire proposal planned? What did you plan to do in Puerto Vallarta? And I guess we would have all been there witnessing it.
00:15:28
Speaker 1: You would have been there, yeah. Yes. Well, so his birthday was coming up.
00:15:33
Speaker 5: So I was going to wait till his birthday, wait till everyone was gathered around the dinner table and just like stand up and say, I have something to say. And in front of all of his friends, just tell him that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with him.
00:15:49
Speaker 1: So, yeah, that was the plan at least. What do they say? Man makes plans.
00:15:55
Speaker 3: God laughs. Yes. I'm curious.
00:15:58
Speaker 4: You all referred to each other and I know you dedicated your book to my forever guy.
00:16:03
Speaker 3: You were 41 when you met. He was 66. So there was a 25 year age gap. Did I get that right?
00:16:10
Speaker 4: What made Howard? What was it about Howard that made him almost immediately? I know you all played around a little bit. You have a bunch of your text messages in the book, but pretty quickly you all realized this wasn't just a fling. This wasn't just an infatuation. What was it about Howard that made you ready and aware that he was your forever guy?
00:16:35
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, there's I definitely learned the word beshert from him. you know, like soulmate. And I hadn't believed in that, but, uh, now I do think that there's some version of that. That's true because we just, it just clicked and there was a 25 year age gap, but I almost feel like it was in the other direction because I was definitely the more mature one in the relationship. He's like a teenager at heart, uh, very mischievous, uh, dirty sense of humor. Like, so I was always just like mortified by some of the things he would say.
00:17:08
Speaker 3: He was cracking jokes in the hospital bed.
00:17:11
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. Yeah.
00:17:12
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:17:12
Speaker 1: He, he kept a sense of humor until the last minute. Um, so yeah, it's, uh, I don't know.
00:17:18
Speaker 5: It's just, we ostensibly, there were so many differences, our age, we were long distance because I was living in Nashville when we met, uh, you know, our pace of life, because I think he was kind of cutting back on client on his client list and kind of trying to just.
00:17:34
Speaker 1: Work with the people he wanted to work with.
00:17:37
Speaker 5: And, you know, I'm just all systems go still, because I'm in my 40s. And I'm just still, you know, hungry and trying to make things happen. And so those things on paper don't look good. But once we really dug in, and we started talking, we just had so many of the same core values, so many similar experiences and taste and music and pop culture. And it's just, We didn't even think about the differences after my initial walls came down. Then we really just, you know, we were inseparable.
00:18:08
Speaker 2: When you find your forever person, and maybe you can speak to people who lose the love of their life in a breakup, that can happen. You lost it, obviously, in a much different way. But how do you get, when you finally find the person you believe is your person, what steps do you even begin to take to get past that? that to try to move on from losing somebody you waited your whole life for?
00:18:35
Speaker 5: But I think the, the subtle vocabulary change I've learned is, is not moving on, but moving forward because we take them with us. Um, so it's, uh, I, for me, I feel blessed because I'm able to create and I didn't even, I mean, I've always liked writing, but I didn't fancy myself an author. Um, But musically, I just immediately went to learning the songs that were really important to us, learning songs that were special for him, and just recording my feelings and putting them into the piano and making this tribute album for him. And it was a devastating process. I've never cried that much while recording anything. And luckily, I can record myself because that would have been super awkward to be in a recording studio with an engineer around. I'm just like, hold on, I need another break. I'm going to crawl under this piano and cry.
00:19:32
Speaker 1: For a little bit.
00:19:33
Speaker 5: So I was able to just, you know, sit in my own studio and do that and work through it. So I guess my message to other people would be to find what that is for you.
00:19:45
Speaker 1: You know what is.
00:19:46
Speaker 5: Your outlet because we have to address the grief before we can start to heal and so it's you know if it's gardening or painting or writing or whatever it is it's just whatever way you can feel like you're connecting to that person you've lost I think it's best to just dive in and and really really put yourself into that rather than trying to just keep yourself busy.
00:20:11
Speaker 4: Yeah, because speaking of the grieving process, I know this, forgive me, this will sound like a dramatic question, but it was a dramatic experience.
00:20:19
Speaker 3: You go from in your head and in your.
00:20:22
Speaker 4: Heart planning a proposal, thinking you're going to be planning a wedding, to literally within days planning a funeral.
00:20:32
Speaker 3: Mentally, how do you get through that?
00:20:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. I was in such shock. But I will say.
00:20:45
Speaker 5: Howard's network of friends and family and chosen family is immense and strong. I mean, it just felt like I had this community.
00:20:55
Speaker 1: To catch me.
00:20:56
Speaker 5: And, you know, Scott Morrow, who did the majority of the planning for his celebration of life, you know, he took care of all of it. And I was just sort of sitting in those meetings in a daze, like, I could not believe this was happening to me.
00:21:10
Speaker 1: It was so surreal.
00:21:12
Speaker 5: But everybody stepped up and I was told a couple of close friends said, you know, be careful because right now everybody's checking in on you and that's going to go away really soon. And you're going to be left by yourself in that house. And the thing about Howard is that wasn't true. People still check in on me and it's been three years.
00:21:31
Speaker 1: He meant so much.
00:21:33
Speaker 5: To so many people that the lasting legacy is that the family's still out there. And so people will text me randomly, just like, I had a thought about Howard. I just wanted to reach out and say.
00:21:46
Speaker 1: Hi. His memory really, really continues.
00:21:50
Speaker 2: There is no question. It's kind of amazing to us how often we talk about Howard.
00:21:55
Speaker 3: Constantly.
00:21:56
Speaker 2: It is kind of amazing to think. And Mike, we have your your book here in front of us, Guess What?
00:22:02
Speaker 1: I Love You.
00:22:03
Speaker 2: Was this a part of your, I guess, catharsis, just like your music was? Or did you find that there is a community for you and maybe there are folks out there who need to hear what you went through because they're dealing with something similar?
00:22:20
Speaker 5: I think I came to that second point during the process and especially now that I'm on tour, like doing release shows and talking to people, I'm realizing that There are just so many people that we don't even realize are carrying grief with them every day.
00:22:35
Speaker 1: And it's hard.
00:22:36
Speaker 5: It's definitely a conversation ender if you're just like, yeah, I'm going through something and I lost whoever. And people don't want to talk about it. So I think that this process has become a way to put it right out front and talk to people. And one person at a show in San Francisco said he lost his husband because And he didn't have the words to grieve properly, but that my book and the record was helping give him a framework to put his emotions into. And that's, to me, that makes it worth the two and a half years of crying on the page, you know, just knowing that it's out there helping some other people.
00:23:27
Speaker 3: Oh, and it certainly does.
00:23:28
Speaker 4: I mean, people, the biggest thing is to know they're not alone, to know that other people have walked that walk and have managed to survive and eventually thrive. You were referencing this, how often we genuinely, Mike, say, God, I wish we could call Howard. I wish we could call him about, yes, professional things and what should we do, what shouldn't we do, but even about relationship issues.
00:23:53
Speaker 3: He was just this person who you trusted.
00:23:56
Speaker 4: He had walked the walk. He had lived so much life. He had seen so much and counseled so many. I can't think of anyone who the two of us would have trusted more with literally relationship problems, with helping us see common ground when we don't understand each other. That's what he did for so many people. I'm curious how... I can only imagine how many times during the day that you wish you could say something to him, that you wish you could ask him a question. Is there something you miss most about Howard that you think about daily?
00:24:33
Speaker 1: It's the hugs.
00:24:35
Speaker 5: He's a great hugger. Yeah, he's a big guy. It's just a big bear hug. Yeah, just being close. Those are the things that I don't think anyone... makes a movie or writes a book about it. It's those day-to-day simple things, just like the casual touch, just being near each other that I think stand out the most when that person isn't there anymore. So yeah, it's pretty, it's not like a very grand answer.
00:25:03
Speaker 3: But it's just those simple things.
00:25:06
Speaker 2: What is the, when do you, after going through that heartbreak, how do you ever begin to even think about it? or consider opening yourself up to love again.
00:25:18
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:25:20
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:25:20
Speaker 5: I definitely had a few people tell me like they're, you know, people like to tell you what's the right timeline. I'm sure you've all, you've had a lot of people tell you what's right and what's not right. But yeah, so I didn't know, I didn't know what to expect. I didn't know how people would react.
00:25:41
Speaker 1: It's, it's really awkward.
00:25:42
Speaker 5: You know, it's like how, How is Howard's family going to react if I meet somebody?
00:25:48
Speaker 1: What's the right thing to do? So it just, yeah, I just.
00:25:56
Speaker 5: Think that through like approaching the healing journey of writing and recording, I was just sort of like, I didn't even realize it, but just sort of opening my heart.
00:26:09
Speaker 1: To new love. And knowing that Howard told me at.
00:26:13
Speaker 5: The end, to find love again, even though I didn't want to hear it, I think helped me realize that there was another love in the future.
00:26:22
Speaker 3: And that's true love.
00:26:24
Speaker 4: Literally on his deathbed, he was worried about you, TJ. He was worried about his friends. He was worried about taking care of everyone else. And he made sure to let you know that he wanted you to find love again.
00:26:37
Speaker 3: That is true love.
00:26:38
Speaker 4: Do you remember? it's hard for me to even speak because that makes, I think, anyone who's loved someone so emotional to know that is the most beautiful gift you can give someone is to say, I love you so much.
00:26:52
Speaker 3: Even without me, I want you to be happy.
00:26:54
Speaker 4: And you're a young man.
00:26:55
Speaker 3: You're in your 40s. You have a lot of life to live.
00:26:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. You're right.
00:26:59
Speaker 5: I think that he just knew all the right things to say. And I think that's why so many people sought his advice. And probably from from living so much, like you said, from advising people.
00:27:12
Speaker 1: Um, but yeah, I, I think, I.
00:27:16
Speaker 5: Think there's just so many like kismet moments, so many God winks as I've come to say.
00:27:21
Speaker 1: And I think that like your experience when you.
00:27:23
Speaker 5: Shared, um, on your podcast about Howard, about having just sat right in front of him, I think at a wedding so you could reconnect. I mean, it's just, it's unbelievable how many things just kind of have to happen for, for, for things to fall into place.
00:27:38
Speaker 4: Yeah, we had known him for years and years and years, you at CNN, me at MSNBC, and then to have him, yes, just sit right behind us in that moment when we didn't know we were about to need him more than ever before in our lives.
00:27:52
Speaker 3: We actually reconnected, I.
00:27:55
Speaker 4: Believe it was about two weeks before our world blew up. And that is not coincidence.
00:27:59
Speaker 2: And by the way, Mike, we didn't reach out to him for help. When shit hit the van for us, our phone was blowing up, him offering that help. And that's just, that's Howard.
00:28:10
Speaker 1: That's how he was, yeah.
00:28:12
Speaker 4: And not for a paycheck, not because he wanted us to sign a retainer and employ him.
00:28:17
Speaker 3: He wouldn't accept a dime from us. It was just his heart.
00:28:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, he saw that love, I think.
00:28:23
Speaker 5: I think, like you said, when you're in a good place in your own life and you feel that love, I think that you can see it in others and be happy for them. Cause I've definitely been in the moments like after a breakup where I don't want to see that. I'm like, if I see a happy couple and I just had a bad breakup, I'm like, get that out of my face. Uh, but when you're in a good spot in your own life, I think that you're, you're able to recognize it in others and, and, and you just want to help, help support that.
00:28:49
Speaker 2: Mike, can I ask, what did you say to him when he told you to go find love again?
00:28:52
Speaker 5: I wonder what exactly I said. I think I just said, stop it. You know, like, I don't want to hear it, you know? Like, cause I didn't, I wasn't, I wasn't anywhere near that headspace. I still wanted him to, to turn it around, you know, but he was already thinking 10 steps ahead.
00:29:11
Speaker 1: As he usually did.
00:29:12
Speaker 4: Mike, at what point did you accept that he, he was going to die? I mean, it was so quick, but do you remember the point when you actually realized, holy hell, he's not going to make it?
00:29:26
Speaker 5: I think it was the day it happened. I think even through our wedding, I was, I was hoping. some miracle would happen. Um, so we, we had one night together as husbands, and then the next morning was when it started to take a real turn so I think that when he finally like shut his eyes I think and just the breathing slowed down I just realized like this is it and I just tried to get every moment I could you know next to him singing to him talking to him.
00:30:01
Speaker 4: Wow.
00:30:03
Speaker 2: Mike, man, it's hard to talk about Howard. How does he play in your world every day now, right? I mean, from the time you get up.
00:30:15
Speaker 1: In the morning. It's a funny thing you should ask that.
00:30:19
Speaker 5: So I have his picture by my bedside, and I wake up every morning and I say, good morning, Howard, I love you, and thank you. Because one of the things I've learned is just daily gratitudes are very important. Actually, a vocal coach told me that. So in the morning, one of my routines is this voice training thing. And one of the things is you hit the highest falsetto note you can, and then you say something you're grateful for, and you go for one note higher. And every morning, it's I thank Howard for the love and for trusting me with his story and his legacy and, and giving me the, the, the means to share it. Um, so yeah, I think it's just a daily gratitude and reflection on the love that we had and that continues to be around me.
00:31:08
Speaker 1: And, uh, and yeah, if you're wondering when.
00:31:11
Speaker 5: You said about new love, I actually did find somebody and it was a crazy story.
00:31:17
Speaker 1: He's also a widower and they knew Howard.
00:31:21
Speaker 5: Um, but Being a widower himself, he has his late husband on his side of the bed. So we both, you know, say good morning to our forever guys and thank them for introducing us.
00:31:34
Speaker 2: What the hell?
00:31:36
Speaker 3: That is so beautiful.
00:31:38
Speaker 4: There are four people in your relationship and you wouldn't have it any other way.
00:31:42
Speaker 1: And they respect it.
00:31:44
Speaker 2: And they respect it. Wow.
00:31:46
Speaker 1: Oh, Mike.
00:31:48
Speaker 2: Mike, when are you getting over to New York? We need to sit down and spend some time with you, man.
00:31:52
Speaker 5: Yeah, I would love that. Hopefully soon. I've got a new booking agent. We're doing some work on 2027, so I'm hoping I'll be out.
00:32:01
Speaker 1: There a bunch.
00:32:02
Speaker 4: Well, we would love to see you. We listened to your music today. We read your book. It is such a beautiful tribute, all of it, to honor someone who deserves to be remembered. And I love that every day starts with that gratitude.
00:32:21
Speaker 3: And I love you, Howard. I mean, that is as beautiful as it gets.
00:32:25
Speaker 4: And I think, look, a lot of people have experienced a loss, maybe not quite as... I mean, your story is... almost like a, tells like a movie. It's like a movie script. It doesn't even seem possible because it was, it was so quick, but it was so dramatic and it was so real. And I love how you have honored him and still been able to move forward with someone who understands.
00:32:49
Speaker 3: I think that gives people hope who might be in.
00:32:51
Speaker 4: A place where they don't see any, when they've lost someone that they truly loved and considered their forever person.
00:32:58
Speaker 5: Yeah, I hope so. Thank you for saying that. I think that that's, I honestly started the book just trying to.
00:33:04
Speaker 1: Tell Howard's story because he lived so much.
00:33:07
Speaker 5: I wanted to share that with the world. And then it sort of morphed into telling his story through the lens of our love story. So I really hope that that that's the lasting impression will be to, to give people, uh, some perspective.
00:33:20
Speaker 1: That there, there is a possibility out there for healing.
00:33:24
Speaker 4: Yep.
00:33:24
Speaker 3: What would Howard say about your new guy?
00:33:26
Speaker 1: Uh, Can I share that on the podcast? Okay. The second thing Howard would say about my new guy is just that he's really happy for us.
00:33:41
Speaker 3: I love that. I love that, Mike. Mike, thank you.
00:33:44
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for being so vulnerable and so real. Like your book, your music, and just this interview, I know will mean the world to so many people who are going through it right now.
00:33:57
Speaker 1: Thank you. Thanks, Amy. Thanks, TJ. I'm really, really grateful that you had me on the show. Good to see you, my brother.
00:34:02
Speaker 2: We'll see you in New York soon, all right?
00:34:03
Speaker 1: All right. Sounds good.