“Voice Memo Guy”: Man Says He Wants Sex On Second Date, Or They “Should End It Here”

00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hey, folks, it is Saturday, July twenty fifth. I hated debate over a guy who asks for exactly what he wanted from a woman. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Problem is he was asked for sex. I guess that's the problem.

00:00:18
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, this was And this has become a.

00:00:23
Speaker 3: Furious debate on TikTok over whether or not this guy did the wrong thing, did the right thing?

00:00:29
Speaker 2: Was offensive? Was creepy, was straightforward?

00:00:32
Speaker 3: And the reaction is all over the place, and it has fallen along gender lines for the most part. I will say about what they think about a voice memo a guy left on a girl's phone.

00:00:47
Speaker 2: He sent it to her after their first date.

00:00:51
Speaker 1: Yes, it's gone crazy because this is a minute long voice memo. It's gone out because her friend apparently posted it online. It's gone crazy. Now the idea here, or at least the backs. He went on one date with this woman, allegedly and then sent this voice mail after a voice memo after the date. Okay, and this is where the problems start because in this and I'll let you describe, it goes about a minute, but robes in it. I don't know if you have words from it. Okay, He is being very direct in what he wants for a second date.

00:01:24
Speaker 2: Yes.

00:01:25
Speaker 3: He starts off by saying, this is just all too much to put in a text, So I'm just gonna make a voice memo. You always laugh, because my girls do this all the time to me. Instead of facetiming, instead of calling, instead of texting, they just put a voice memo on their phone and then send it to me.

00:01:41
Speaker 1: First of all, that I got a problem if anybody has a problem with him, that's where we start. Don't send a voice memo. You can't get what you need to say in a few words. Don't go crazy. You can't say something directly. That's stop.

00:01:52
Speaker 3: He does go around and about I don't know. He probably should have tried a couple of times before he saund with this one, but he sent up. He follows up after their first date with this voice memo, saying basically that if this woman who he had one date with isn't interested in having sex with him on the second date, they should end it here.

00:02:12
Speaker 2: He basically it sounds as if they had made.

00:02:14
Speaker 3: Plans for him to come over on Thursday night later that week, and so he said if I'm going to come over, I'm going to be hoping to hook up, to have sex, to have a good time. What would be the point of me coming over then? If we're not going to hook up? And he talked about how it's sexual compatibility is important to him and he needs to know if they're sexually compatible for him to continue seeing her, and he literally says, what's the point of me coming over if we're.

00:02:42
Speaker 2: Not going to have sex?

00:02:44
Speaker 1: Okay? Now is do we have the basics? Does everybody listen? A lot of people read this by now, Even if you haven't taken time to listen to the memo, you probably read a scene headlines about the story. So that fairly sums it up. Is that right? Yeah?

00:02:56
Speaker 3: And he's And the other thing that's notable is he sounds very business like. There's nothing there's nothing warm or friendly or in no way throughout the entire voice memo does he take her feelings into consideration. He even acknowledges it sounds as though they had a conversation about physical intimacy beforehand, and it sounds like she already told him she's moved slower than most and so he said, look, I know that this might not be something or you reference. This might not be something you'd be interested, but basically I am, and I'm only interested in going forward with sex on the table. And if sex is off the table right now, we should not see each other at all anymore. On one hand, I appreciate the fact that he showed her and told her exactly who he was. On the other hand, yes, it is offensive to think that he actually valued her that little. That he said, there's no point in me getting to know you anymore unless.

00:03:49
Speaker 1: We have sex. Valued her that little or valued sex that much. He does not know this woman that well yet. We just got done watching Island. Everybody wants to kiss and kiss and kiss and kiss and kiss to figure out some kind of compatibility where they think that's important to them, And that's fine. It is robes. I don't know if the roles and the genders were reversed, would this feel any different? Would you view it any different? If the woman was being very direct? I know we're supposed to get together again, and I know sometimes you said you're a slower mover, but I just want you to know that if I come over, I would have an expert. Would it be.

00:04:31
Speaker 3: Different possibly yes, just because of I think the traditional roles and the whole idea about sexual consent. Having a woman come out and tell a man by the way I think if she said, I'm totally ready and willing to have sex, but I understand if you're not, but I just want to put it out there that I am.

00:04:50
Speaker 2: If he had worded it even that way, I don't can It's.

00:04:53
Speaker 3: Hard to imagine a woman saying it the way he said it, like, if you're not willing to have sex with me in the next date, then we're done. I still think that would have been viewed a certain way, but not as harshly, perhaps as if a man had said it yes, and.

00:05:05
Speaker 1: Then that voice memo would have never gotten out because that date would have happened in the next thirty minutes.

00:05:12
Speaker 2: You don't have to wait too, Can you come over?

00:05:14
Speaker 3: Now? That is?

00:05:16
Speaker 2: That is the truth? But I think I guess is it? There are two things at play here.

00:05:22
Speaker 3: First of all, I think we can all acknowledge that I think it's a good thing that he was honest about where his head was, but how he said it, and is there is it fair to have an expectation that a man should believe that he should have sex with someone on the second date, or that person isn't worth getting to know. I mean the idea that he values and puts sex that high up. Do you believe that? Do you think if he was really into the squirrel, he wouldn't have been willing to wait?

00:05:50
Speaker 2: Is that a hymn flaw?

00:05:51
Speaker 3: Or is that this actually probably wasn't ever going to be anything and he made it very clear this was just a physical thing.

00:05:58
Speaker 1: Why does it have to be a flaw at all? These are human beings who are trying to navigate all we talk about all the times, how difficult it is to date these days, and dating in this new age, and this new error and expectations being upfront, what all these dating trends you keep telling me about every single week, that we never it's a what now and this kind of a rope, all that complication. So I might take issue with how he did it, wouldn't have done it that way? Maybe don't think he should have done it at all kinds of stuff, But I don't want to take him to task or her to task for trying to navigate whatever this wild dating issue is. Now. I do have issues. I just don't think we should always Robes. I hate to dismiss or throw somebody away for trying to navigate. We don't have all the details, obviously, but I do take issue and would have advised him differently. I don't shun him and throw him out with the garbage.

00:06:56
Speaker 3: Yes, I hear you, but obviously, if Sabine had come and give shown this voice memo, you'd be like, if you ever day put man again, I will lock you in your room.

00:07:06
Speaker 1: You know, I had family members used to tell me I'm raising the South. I'm making this comparison Robes, like I appreciate seeing the racist comments outside somebody's home or the imagery, because I had family members to tell me, you see that house right there, you stay away from that one when somebody shows it to you. Keep going on. The guy expressed, this ain't somebody I want to deal with. I don't want to ride with this guy. He's told you, let's move on. It's over. So I just I don't appreciate and wouldn't have advised him going the way he did it. And I do think it does send a negative message to men and to women, But and I do I just so I don't want to throw him out for doing something ropes a lot of this dating shit. I don't understand all these things. You go, this is just another part of it. I don't understand this either, but it might be normal these days.

00:08:04
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, And I do think it's interesting that there is value in having somebody be that open and telling you exactly. Look how many guys think that, babe, but don't ever say it out loud?

00:08:16
Speaker 2: Right?

00:08:17
Speaker 3: And so women are going into the second date not knowing that this guy has full expectations and is actually going to be pissed if you're not going to get physical with him.

00:08:26
Speaker 1: See that we that wording is important. Some guys have what'd you just say? Expectations? Other guys have hopes, right, hope we get to have sex night, But if we don't, maybe the third date will be the charm, maybe the fourth fifth. But I like her, So expectations is different from hope. Yes, every guy first date, right, they have hope, hell hope. This guy though, to take the other step of and look, if this is important to him, fine, why not roades? If sex is important to him and in his life, and that's the thing that drives him in terms of compatibility and relationship. I feel sorry for him, but if that's his thing, you go do it.

00:09:11
Speaker 3: And I would think for him to have put this voice memo out, it sounds as though it's worked before for him.

00:09:17
Speaker 2: It doesn't.

00:09:18
Speaker 3: It didn't seem like this was his first try at it, like he felt perfectly comfortable letting her know.

00:09:23
Speaker 1: You know, and I take and I wish I'll go on the record with saying I have. If I was a betting man, I might take the bet that this mill was fake.

00:09:31
Speaker 2: Oh you think it's fake.

00:09:32
Speaker 1: There's still some question out there about whether or not this was just performative and somebody put this out, and why would somebody want to embarrass the guy? Why the vemo get there? I am just saying it seems a little performative. It seemed like it was meant to rile us up. It feels that way. I'm holding out the possibility that it's real, but the conversation around it certainly is right now.

00:09:52
Speaker 3: Oh yes, And I do think that might be the value if it is real or not. Maybe is less important than the conversation we're about all of this.

00:10:01
Speaker 2: I have a couple comments which I thought were fun.

00:10:04
Speaker 3: Someone wrote Basically, what he was saying is, if you're not willing to set aside your boundaries and feelings to give me what I want, then I don't want to waste my time getting to know you. And I do believe that's exactly what he was saying, and I do believe that's exactly the reason why you should be thanking him for showing you and telling you exactly who he is if you don't want to date someone like that, And I imagine most people wouldn't thank you for letting me know, sir, I can now move on.

00:10:29
Speaker 1: Man, that's some of the best advice my mom ever gave me when I was going through something in a relationship. Better to find out in five months and in five years.

00:10:37
Speaker 3: Better to find out after the first date than after a full year of that very self indulgent man. Yes, someone else wrote I me I myself, I ME ME I because me, and then also I.

00:10:50
Speaker 2: It really was.

00:10:51
Speaker 3: The entire memo war was completely about what he wanted and what he needs.

00:10:54
Speaker 1: Isn't that what dating is now? And he just said it out loud. Everybody tells us that now, Rhodes, I'm not getting into a relationship to contribute to something. I'm getting into it because that relationship could get me something. Sometimes people even think it's good for status at work to be in a relationship, to be married or whatnot. People have all kinds of reasons, Robes, No, this mindset of selfishness in a relationship. Yeah, he's an outlier.

00:11:19
Speaker 3: He just was bold enough to put it out there for all the world to hear.

00:11:23
Speaker 2: Someone wrote, so manipulative. I'm so angry with this dude.

00:11:27
Speaker 3: Someone wrote, good grief, I've been married for eight years forgot how crappy dating was.

00:11:31
Speaker 2: I'm praying for all my single girls out there.

00:11:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I do think That's where my takeaway was, Wow, there are guys out there like that.

00:11:39
Speaker 2: I feel like that. You're laughing, you're rolling your eyes. Duh. Of course there are guys out there like that.

00:11:47
Speaker 1: I am the guy wants to have sex. Okay, he told her so in doing so, I don't think, Robes, is there anyone I you and I've been in a relationship all these years now, Robes, it's it's crash for me to ask you to have sex. He'll just request. Hey, it just it's just no, and it's fine. It works for other people that way in robes. I take complete issue. You should not do this. Even if you feel this, you shouldn't do it. Next step, even if you feel it and you want to express it, there's a better way to do it than he did it. Don't ever do it in a voice memo, first of all, because that's crass and rude and whatever. Have that conversation. Talk about that. Also, is this woman not worth a second conversation before you send this memo? Is she not a second good time somewhere? Didn't he said she was gonna be inviting he was coming over to the house.

00:12:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, she invited him over. So the first date went, well.

00:12:46
Speaker 1: You're doing well, bro, As Casey would say, come on, bro, you're doing good. You just messed up. You're in You're in the house and blew it.

00:12:58
Speaker 2: Yeah it was.

00:12:59
Speaker 3: It was so interesting and yes, and so look the guys who came to his defense. I wanted to hear what you thought about this. I thought these were two good ones, he said. Regardless of his delivery, he communicated his wants clearly, made his intentions clear. As for consent and set of boundary, the majority of you in the comments say you want clear communication until it's not what you want to hear.

00:13:20
Speaker 1: That is, that's true, Robes. We see this play out, and that's it's fair. And you and I go through this a lot where being open and honest and telling you and then you don't like how it's being told. Right, So it does. Guys do feel oftentimes like a goal post is being moved. I did this. Do you want clear communication? Okay? But I didn't say it right. Okay, Now I said it the way you told me to say it. But I said it in too many words. Okay, Now I said it in fewer words. But you don't like I put it in text and not in a voice memo. Okay, now I'll put it like every step of the way. And guys do, genuinely, as much as we screw up Robes, we do get confused, we do get annoyed sometimes, even as we saw it play out on Love Island on movie night, the double standard. Keep going back to Love Island. It's been fresh on our minds here.

00:14:08
Speaker 2: There's so many relationships lessons, but.

00:14:11
Speaker 1: Robes, that thing of he did exactly what you want. Thank you, sir for showing that you're not the type of person I want to date. Let's all move on. That's okay. Is there a woman out there who would have gotten that voice memo and appreciated it, liked it and said, yeah, come on over bro. I was hoping myself we were going to.

00:14:35
Speaker 3: Get it, you know what I think if he hadn't so, And when we come back, we're going to talk about what the experts say. But I think there could have been a way he could have worded it differently that yes, a woman might have been receptive to it. It was how he said it. We'll tell you what the expert said when they weighed in on this when we come back. Welcome back everyone, as we talk about voice memo guy. This video has gone viral on TikTok. I actually wanted to give some perspective. When it was originally posted, it got five and a half million views almost immediately. There are thousands of reaction videos, everyone reacting to the actual voice memo. Three hundred thousand likes, thirty thousand comments. This has gotten a lot of attention and reaction, so much so that even relationship experts are weighing in on the voice memo, whether it was right, whether it was wrong, and look, some of the experts say this guy did do things correctly. He disclosed his intentions in advance. That is a good sexual communication act that can help prevent assumptions and dangers.

00:15:47
Speaker 2: So that was one.

00:15:49
Speaker 3: Expert said that that was a good thing in general. However, and this is what you were referring to when we went to break He presented this as an ultimatum other than an open conversation. So he said, if you aren't willing to have sex with me on the second date, then we can end it here. So it was absolutely an ultimatum. It wasn't a conversation or a description of desire.

00:16:14
Speaker 1: Uh. It was an expression of his intentions, I guess. But it was awful because it does rogues. Is no other way to receive that from someone. There is nothing else about even watching a movie that I want to watch, sitting next to you, being around you in company, or there is nothing else for us to do if we're not going to have sex. That's that's insulting. That is awful. That was done poorly. But the only thing I will give and credit to give is that congratulations. She should thank him, thank you for.

00:16:49
Speaker 2: Not wasting her time.

00:16:50
Speaker 1: For showing me exactly what I don't want and that's you exactly.

00:16:55
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:16:56
Speaker 3: You know, it's so interesting because I actually thought if this dude people are saying he was manipulative, he wasn't manipulative at all.

00:17:03
Speaker 2: He had no game.

00:17:04
Speaker 3: If he had said, look, after our conversation, I just needed to put this out here. I know you mentioned you wanted to move slowly, but I really want to have sex with you.

00:17:12
Speaker 2: You are.

00:17:13
Speaker 3: I know this may be forward, but my god, you're smart, you're intelligent, you're gorgeous, and when I come over on Thursday night, I understand where you are and I respect where you are, but I just want to put it fully out there that I cannot wait to be with you physically. Like he could have said something a little bit more complimentary, he didn't have to put a there's no point in us even seeing each other again if you won't, and.

00:17:36
Speaker 2: I think he did. He used the F.

00:17:37
Speaker 3: He said f uc k At one point it was crasty. He said, yeah, I wanna, I wanta f and he said he kept calling it sexual intimacy for a while, but then he just dropped the F and it just seemed so obvious. And I do agree. I think this was an amazing voice memo because she knew exactly who he was and she knew exactly where things stood.

00:17:59
Speaker 2: Isn't that true.

00:18:00
Speaker 3: That we always ask for that and if we don't like what we hear, then it's a problem. But we should actually be grateful that someone was willing to be just fully himself and even at his own expense.

00:18:13
Speaker 1: And some people and some people are like that. And just because people are crash or rude or don't know how to go about it in the right way or whatever else, I just don't like to dismiss or throw away this guy that we don't know completely and without understanding the circumstances. If he felt this way roads you just said the experts the way he phrased it, I think you don't express that. My advice to him, if he wanted to express it is express that to her, but have the next date be in public. Express that to her that you wanna fuck, But let the next date be in public, somewhere where you're not in private and there is that pressure and that expectation. He could let that go and let that out, but she could still be in safety in a public place to where she doesn't feel like she she has the pressure to perform. She doesn't have to. Oh, he wants sex, so if I don't. That's the only way Robes I would recommend him doing this is that next date needs to be in a movie theater, it needs to be in a bar, have a nice restaurant of picnic or something else. You can't go in hot with that on both of their minds. And now you're coming into a private home.

00:19:24
Speaker 2: That's tough. I agree.

00:19:25
Speaker 1: I like that.

00:19:26
Speaker 2: I agree.

00:19:26
Speaker 3: And look, these experts, I was surprised, were very deferential. They weren't jumping on this bandwagon of hating on him, and I appreciated that. They even said, one person, here's a refreshing directness, another person, here's disrespect. Our reactions are shaped by our lived experiences like gender, access to power, past rejection, past coercion, and so they said. The act of sexual communication and the clarity it provides is absolutely the right thing to do, but the way it was delivered was very insensitive and perhaps entitled.

00:20:00
Speaker 1: And we refer to this so often in private and also here publicly as we do podcasts and YouTube shows. Robes, we talk about Gabby Bernstein. It was one of the coolest things. She ever said she and she was taking you to task at the time. Not in a mean way, I'm saying, but she said, why are you upset by how somebody said something? Something was in you already that was going to get you riled up. Don't blame them for the words they chose or what they said. You need to examine what it is about you that caused you to react that way. That is what you were I thought about. When you're talking about what the experts are saying, They said, your past history. What is your relationship history that makes you react to hearing a voicemail that way? Why are you jumping on and typing all this awful stuff about this guy in this situation? You don't know? Is it because of something that happened in your relationship or your current relationship? Those things are important roles, and people are reacting to this based on what their own dating history, their own experience. We have had tons of it, and we have seen people behave poorly who are really really good folks, and we have seen people who are not really good folks perform wonderful feats in a relationship rooms. It's just it's based on what you experience so I hear this, and I see this based on my experience and what I know, He's probably not the devil. He's probably a dumb dude. He's probably a dude that is navigating this dating scene. And they're all confused. They don't know what to do, how to talk. What am I supposed to say? Am I supposed to be direct?

00:21:42
Speaker 3: Or?

00:21:42
Speaker 1: I want sex? Am I supposed to do this? What's they don't know? First date? Second date?

00:21:47
Speaker 2: This is not they don't know.

00:21:50
Speaker 3: But I think there is tremendous value in the ability to let her know who he is. I think that's the only way to look at this. Thank God, he showed her who he was before that second date, and that's a good thing.

00:22:04
Speaker 2: Voice memo.

00:22:05
Speaker 3: Guy did the right thing because he just he let it all hang out there and he showed what was in his head. He didn't filter it. He didn't he didn't manipulate. It's so funny people are calling him manipulator. It wasn't manipulating at all.

00:22:18
Speaker 1: But what was the manipulation? I mean, I guess they're explaining.

00:22:21
Speaker 3: They're explaining, like I guess the fact that there was an ultimatum, like, hey, you know, I'd really like to go on a second date with you. But it was they felt like somehow he was dangling sex is like and I thought, he's just saying what he wants and it's offensive as hell the way he's saying it. And so to me, that wasn't manipulative because it didn't work, like, who is going to listen to that voice memo? What woman is going to listen to that voice memo and go ooh that sounds great, I'm in.

00:22:45
Speaker 2: So he just he shot himself in the foot by being himself.

00:22:49
Speaker 1: Maybe he's arriant robes. Maybe he rolled up to that to that first date in a Lamborghini Galardo. Maybe he came with some Harmani slippers. Maybe he is the man. Maybe he ain't got to maybe r what if it's that thing. Maybe it went really well. Maybe he knows that she's into him and she wants this. So yeah, we want to keep this thing going. This is what I expect.

00:23:16
Speaker 3: We just I'll take overt over covert any day of the week.

00:23:21
Speaker 1: Say it's face, but it's worth complish with that.

00:23:25
Speaker 2: Everyone.

00:23:25
Speaker 3: We always appreciate you listening to us. I made me Wrotebock alongside TJ. Holmes, we'll talk soon.