March 3, 2026
VERDICT IN: “Gave My Son A Gun” Trial: Colin Gray Guilty On All Counts
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RSS Feed A history making verdict out of Georgia today: it’s the first time the state has held a parent criminally responsible for the actions of his child. A jury took less than 2 hours to decide the fate of 55-year-old Colin Gray, convicted of 4 counts of 2nd degree murder and manslaughter along with dozens of other charges. Gray has been held responsible for the shooting deaths of 2 high school students and 2 teachers after police say his 14-year-old son, Colt, opened fire on his classmates and teachers. Prosecutors say Gray gave Colt, who he knew was emotionally troubled, an assault rifle for hunting, on the Christmas before the mass shooting.
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00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hey, folks, it is Tuesday, March third, and guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty, twenty seven times over. A jury in Georgia has found a dad criminally responsible for his son shooting up a school with that Welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ Roapes. This is the case people were watching, not just because of this, but the implications down the road. And this jury did not take long to figure this out.
00:00:33
Speaker 2: I have to say I was frankly surprised, not just at all the guilty verdicts, because this is the first time we have seen a father charged with second degree murder. There is a previous case that we can talk about from a year ago where they were found guilty of manslaughter, but second degree murder four charges or four counts of that in addition to manslaughter and so many other charges as you mentioned in twenty seven to be.
00:01:02
Speaker 3: Specific.
00:01:04
Speaker 2: And yeah, less than two hours, less than two hours, after two weeks of testimony, there was a lot to digest. Colin Gray even took the stand in his own defense, his daughter took the stand, his I guess estranged wife took the stand.
00:01:17
Speaker 3: That's a lot to.
00:01:18
Speaker 2: Process and to go through and they were quick and decisive.
00:01:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, it might be a reason they were quick and decisive that we'll get into here in a second as well. But Colin Gray, of folks who remember this was the shooting, this is the dad we're talking about. The Sun is cult fourteen years old, accused of and he is still in jail. That's something else was wild. The dad has been held responsible for the shooting that the Sun hasn't even been found guilty of yet. But this is where we are. But yes, the shooting was in two thousand and four at a high school just north of Atlanta, in September of twenty twenty four, Appalachi High School there. And here's the thing, bro Again, we've seen so many school shootings. We have seen some parents at least held accountable, but unfortunately, Robes. This is important to keep an eye on because we're probably gonna have more school shootings and this is Is it possible this could help cut down on or prevent even one because parents now are going who whah, whoa, Let me pay attention to my own child and lock this gun up.
00:02:26
Speaker 2: Yes, I think that may be the hope. I've read a statistic based on this case and looking back at school shootings. They said three out of every four school shootings, the gun that was used was found in the family home. So yes, this is a serious issue. And look, this is in an area of the country. This is winder Georgia. This is right by Athens, Georgia. My brother lives in Winder. I am very familiar with this community. You've even seen the area. It's bucolic, You've got a lot of hunters, a lot of farmers. But guns are a big way of life in this part of the world. And this is about a lot where fathers will give their sons guns, they'll go hunting together. And that was the story that Colin Gray's attorney was trying to paint for this jury, that this is a father who was trying to connect with his troubled son. He found something that his son actually liked and was good at, and this was a way for them to bond. In no way did he think that this was going to lead to the tragedy it led to.
00:03:26
Speaker 3: But that was the defense's.
00:03:29
Speaker 2: Version of why and how Colt Gray had access to this gun that was not locked up, that was not and that isn't against Georgia law.
00:03:40
Speaker 3: By the way, and people have pointed that out.
00:03:42
Speaker 1: That's not the if. That wasn't the point that you said. The shortest and simplest and most common sense thing ever had a troubled son let me bond with him by putting a gun in his hand. That sounds insane, it does when you put it that simply, but they did. They went over story after story after story, and this kid's background brought people in who had whatever kind of experience with him. They showed his there was nothing robes about. Anyone who spent time with him was aware well the problems he had. This was not something he was hiding. This kid was even violent with his own with his own family, So the jury was not buying it. And then he gave him a gun for what Christmas? And then he wasn't supposed to use it to it he was late? What was that?
00:04:30
Speaker 2: So they were trying to split hairs, in my opinion, and the jury didn't buy it because the prosecution was saying, what does this dad do when he knows his son is in trouble and has gone back and forth between mom's home, who, by the way, is a drug addict, and she testified and that wasn't known fact, she was incredible.
00:04:49
Speaker 3: She was suffering from a.
00:04:50
Speaker 2: Meth addiction actually during this period of time. So we ended up going back and forth between his mom's home and his dad's home.
00:04:55
Speaker 3: So what does his dad do on Christmas morning? Last present?
00:04:59
Speaker 2: Wraps up a gun and then, according to the defense, he says, now, this isn't actually yours until you've earned the right to.
00:05:07
Speaker 3: Actually have it and you come of age.
00:05:10
Speaker 2: But come on, you give your fourteen year old son a gun at Christmas and say this isn't a gift that's yours.
00:05:16
Speaker 3: That was a tough pill to swallow.
00:05:19
Speaker 1: So, yes, the jury didn't buy it. But maybe the courtroom today, I guess we were a little surprised that the verdict. We got word that the verdict was coming because the jury just got instructions yesterday. They just got closing arguments yesterday, and we're supposed to come in and start fresh, and they started this morning and they were done in two hours. On what is or it feels like a complicated case, But they heard a lot of evidence and twenty seven counts that seemed like a lot of robes. They were not buying it at all. The color from the courtroom today I didn't see him bat nye.
00:05:51
Speaker 2: He did not react at all, you know, I noticed, So it doesn't. It always works a little bit differently in different courtrooms. But the judge had kind of set the saying, when the jury comes in, they're going to hand the verdict over to me.
00:06:04
Speaker 3: I'm going to read it.
00:06:05
Speaker 2: I'm going to call up counsel, the prosecution and the defense and let them read it, and then it's going to be announced. I saw after the prosecution or the prosecutor looked at the sheet, she looked back at her team and gave a nod, and I knew in that moment that he was going to be found guilty.
00:06:20
Speaker 1: How often do we see that? I am not used to that taking place. That Okay, the jury, Yeah, sure, the judge will see the verdict first, but to call them I'm trying to think of a single time I've seen that. What was that about.
00:06:33
Speaker 2: I've never seen that before, And it was weird because now it was as if I mean, I'm sure, if I'm Colin Gray, I'm staring, yes.
00:06:41
Speaker 1: Figured it out.
00:06:42
Speaker 2: I'm staring at the prosecution and the defense deceive if there's any reaction when they read it, and she clearly gave a reaction of we got this.
00:06:50
Speaker 1: You didn't give the I didn't hear him give the attorney's instructions to also not react. But how can you not as a human being. You're looking at two people who are in different sizes. You look at a sheet of paper. One of you got good news, one of you got bad news. I promise you I can tell yes.
00:07:05
Speaker 2: And so that is so I was saying, maybe that's why when they actually did the reading, he didn't react because he already knew what was happening. But yeah, he was stonefaced, he was stoic. He but after all the emotion of what he went through to watch your own thirteen year old daughter testify against you and say even she saw this coming, he has been through the ringer. I mean to me, as a parent, knowing that your child committed the horrific act that he did, knowing that he's going to prison for the rest of his life, knowing that your daughter just testified against you and your marriage is I mean, he has been through And I'm not comparing at all the suffering that these poor you know, families have gone through, who lost children, lost loved ones, two teachers, two students and so many others injured. But I would just imagine he's probably at this point vacant of emotion.
00:07:57
Speaker 3: You'd almost have to be to survive.
00:08:00
Speaker 1: And the thing about it robes and again, we always stare at the defendant to see if they're going to react. I never saw anything, and there was a lot of opportunity to see something because of how they had to read the jury verdicts. There were so many, so it was very repetitive. Count fifteen cruelty to children guilty, Count sixteen cruelty to a child guilty. So they really did go through twenty seven lines like that, and it took a while, and so we had a long time to stare at him on a camera and an opportunity for him to react at some point. But after you hear the first guilty, I guess you know what's coming. But it was a long list of stuff.
00:08:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think maybe he even had an I kind of I kind of even glazed over because you obviously knew what was coming. You weren't expecting there to be a not guilty sandwiched in there. I mean, maybe he thought but if the biggest charges which were read first second degree murder and then manslaughter.
00:09:05
Speaker 3: If he was guilty on those counts.
00:09:07
Speaker 2: It just seems almost certain that he would be guilty on all the other counts. And so yeah, there was a long, long period of time where he just had to sit there and listen, as you said, off the top.
00:09:19
Speaker 3: Guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty.
00:09:22
Speaker 1: One other thing that's on my mind remembering this, right, was he seated?
00:09:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they're usually standing. Everything was different in this in this courtroom for whatever reason.
00:09:33
Speaker 1: Georgia different down there, and Georgia they do.
00:09:37
Speaker 2: And a lot of eyes were on Georgia do because of what this case implies for other cases that are waiting in the wings and certainly going forward. You know, the silver lining would be if parents who are gun owners, who see their children struggling mentally, emotionally, actually look at this case and I know, no one thinks their child is capable of this. We even heard when the defense was giving the closing arguments. How could Colin have known what was going to happen? Even his own mother didn't think that he was capable of this, Although his own mother did call the school and give the school a heads up that she was concerned about her son. That day, and sadly they're just they didn't react in time to stop him. He was already in the bathroom, I believe when he called, assembling the gun and getting ready to come out, and they just didn't get him in time. But look, I thought this was a very compelling point that the prosecution made in their closing arguments. They said they compared Colin to a parent who gives their child alcohol, a beer or whatever, alcohol and keys to the car. You have to accept responsibility at that point. She compared what he did to that by giving his troubled son a gun.
00:10:43
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think because I remember what you're talking about, and I thought it was a good analogy as well, you're not. I think it was the car versus the alcohol. She was maybe you're not in trouble for giving your child a car. You're not in trouble for your child driving and maybe hitting and killing somebody. You're not in trouble because you gave him the car. But now you give him a six pack. That was the thing, so they said, And I thought it was that's funny that that thing stood out to both of us. The point she was making that no, it's not necessarily that you gave him a gun. It's who you gave the gun too. Knowing what was or possibly going to happen. You made this now a dangerous situation. She was effective in that one.
00:11:31
Speaker 2: I think every parent that is where it hits. And I don't know what the makeup of the jury was, how many of them were parents. I was thinking about this like, are you as a jury member looking at it as a parent, thinking oh no, if I find this man guilty, this parent guilty. Am I now saying all parents are responsible for all bad acts of their children if they're miners and under their care. But that isn't what this case was about. And I think the prosecution did a good job about making it very specific and saying basically, hey, you out there, who a parent would you give your children?
00:12:01
Speaker 3: Load them up with alcohol, and then give them the keys and say good luck.
00:12:04
Speaker 2: So I think everyone could look at it from that very specific scenario and think absolutely not and comparing it to that I think was very effective.
00:12:13
Speaker 1: And you know, and that might be the thing Robes. This could make a difference. This could be a big deal, and this was a big story, and if it causes more parents out there to Yes, keep a close eye on your kid and what they're up to, and take it seriously when you see something suspicious, and even not that just be shouldn't we all be damn sure if we got kids in the house, they do not have an opportunity at all to access a gun if we don't want them to.
00:12:43
Speaker 3: Yes.
00:12:43
Speaker 2: I think as a parent and someone who yes, who has gone through some of those difficult teen years, we are responsible for what our kids do and what we give them, and how we treat them and recognizing signs.
00:12:58
Speaker 3: That's part of our job as parents. For sure. I do hope that this does send a message.
00:13:04
Speaker 1: It could, This could actually make a difference. Again, this is happening now, but it's not the first. We have had other cases and another you are going to remember that set precedent for this type of thing. Yes, this is the first parent held responsible, and there are other cases out there pending. We'll get into those and what happens next in the case in Georgia, to the dad and to the son, stay here.
00:13:39
Speaker 3: Welcome back to this episode of Amy and TJ.
00:13:41
Speaker 2: We are talking about the guilty verdicts that just came down in the case out of winder Georgia. Colin Gray, fifty five year old parent to Colt Gray, held criminally responsible significantly so convicted four counts of second degree murder, four counts of manslaw, and dozens of other counts of cruelty to children, etc. Found guilty on all counts because his fourteen year old son at the time, the fourteen year old son shot and killed four people, two students, two teachers at that high school in winder Georgia, and injured dozens of others. And yes, he has now been held criminally responsible and right now, just on the second degree murder charges, he is facing thirty years behind bars.
00:14:28
Speaker 3: Some folks have done the math.
00:14:29
Speaker 2: And said he's actually looking at if you look at all the guilty counts that he was found guilty of he was convicted of, he could be facing up to one hundred and eighty years behind bars. His sentencing has been deferred. We don't have a sentencing date yet. Who knows what the judge is going to do, if they're going to actually throw the book at him and give him the maximum, which would basically be life in prison. But this is serious. This isn't a slap on the wrist. This isn't you should have known better. This is Colin Gray never getting out of prison.
00:15:00
Speaker 1: Get They are saying, those kids would be alive, those teachers would be alive had it not been for your actions. I mean, Robes, that's that's uh No, he didn't pull the trigger, but man, he sure teat that kid up. Is what they're saying with his message. And it is still remarkable to me that he could be convicted before the son.
00:15:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he already the son by the way, Colt, I guess he would be fifteen now or so, but he's still young, obviously being charged as an adult in this case. But he doesn't even have a trial date. He has a hearing, I believe next month, but that's.
00:15:39
Speaker 3: It, just a pre trial hearing. We don't have even a trial date, said Yees.
00:15:43
Speaker 2: So it's interesting prosecutors in Georgia chose to go after the father first before the son. I don't know the reasoning behind that, or the thinking behind that.
00:15:53
Speaker 1: I don't know the legalities behind that. It seems odd that he's been held responsible for a crime and the son hasn't been held responsible for that crime. How could the I don't know what's going to happen in the trial line of weird things happened, he would I, I don't get that. I need to ask lawyer about that.
00:16:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean because the only other case, and you reference this when we went to break there is one case out of Michigan where this was Oxford High School the shooting. The school shooting happened in twenty twenty one. It actually is eerily similar to this case. Four people died and the shooter was a fifteen year old student named Ethan Plumley. Both of his parents were held accountable. They were only charged and convicted with four counts of manslaughter, but they were and are at least the first parents ever convicted in a mass shooting and again bottom a gun ignored the warning signs.
00:16:48
Speaker 3: Very very similar case.
00:16:49
Speaker 2: But their son Ethan pleaded guilty, so he was already and is already in prison for the rest of his life. And that happened before they brought his par parents to court, so they did it in reverse, or at least he decided for whatever reason.
00:17:05
Speaker 3: To plead guilty and not go through a lengthy trial.
00:17:08
Speaker 1: But that was that was a big moment. That was a big deal for those parents. They were the first, I guess in this and you know what, A lot of times, a lot of I think a lot of parents you can't help. But some people actually say it on social media. But sometimes it's in the back of your mind when you see these school shootings, you see, well, how did the parents not know? Or you start to blame, like how do they not know? Or how could they not keep an eye on their kid? Or oh, I feel bad, what kind of kid did you raise? People do that kind of stuff ropes, and generally they haven't gone after parents. But these are a different kind of egregious cases, but cases, but they haven't generally done.
00:17:46
Speaker 2: So yes, and I've even heard people say that person should be held accountable. Look in some of these school shootings, I hate to be Ma Cob here, but we have seen the shooter go and kill the person who gave them the gun, the mother, the father, and then go and shoot this.
00:18:00
Speaker 3: So we've seen folks.
00:18:02
Speaker 2: Not held accountable criminally or legally, but certainly they pay the ultimate price with their life. That that was the case in Uvaldi, I remember that very clearly. But this is going to set precedent. Interestingly enough, the plumb leis James and Jennifer Plumley, the first couple convicted for their son's actions. They, I say, only, but they only got ten to fifteen years for their charges, So they'll be out of prison, you know, I don't know with credit for time served all of that probably in less than a decade. This guy, Colin Gray is almost certainly never getting out of prison.
00:18:37
Speaker 1: But they both I mean, that sends a message right to a parent, even saying ten years in prison if I'm not careful about guns in my home and keeping an eye on my kid robes, that is a significant I said, I know what you mean. Ten to fifteen compared to life is not my friends, but my goodness, that's going to send a message. I don't know about these other There is another case pending. I didn't even realize there was a Dad Abundant Life Christian school. Two were killed in that a teenage girl, I believe, and then she ended up taking her own life. I believe that was in Madison. But there's a Dad awaiting trial on that one. I think a lot of people remember the one the fourth of July parade or where he kind of was plucking people off at this parade that was in Chicago in twenty twenty two that dad did plead guilty to reckless conduct. I don't know if he got jail time or how much jail time there. And then Newport News the six year old had a gun and shot a teacher at school. Now this one wrote, somebody needs to be held responsible for that one. Yes, well as a six year old got a gun.
00:19:43
Speaker 2: Yes, there's only one way a six year old got a gun. And again this is one of the many cases. Again, seventy five percent of these school shootings happened and a gun is used from the home. And in that case the mom pleaded guilty to gun charges and got four years in prison. So it looks like from everything we've seen, and this is all fairly recent in terms of charging parents, this case, today's guilty verdict and the sentencing that is going to follow is certainly the most severe punishment we have seen to date, and it will be interesting to see what it does to just I don't know how parents assume responsibility. I still would think the problem with this being a deterrent is that no, I think most parents don't think their kids have this in them. They don't think their kids are capable of this kind of heinous violence. Yeah.
00:20:36
Speaker 1: And also most parents know their kids do not behave the way these kids have been described as behaving, this one in particular, cold great, some of the stuff that came out of this trial. No, that's a little beyond whoh not my baby.
00:20:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, And they were just like I believe, he had a psychiatric evaluation schedule for March fifth, the following day, the day after the school shooting, So they had been dragging their feet, and I understand in trying to get him outside help for his very obvious and documentable aggressions.
00:21:13
Speaker 3: And emotional problems.
00:21:15
Speaker 2: I mean, he didn't even go to school his eighth grade year, that's how bad it was. So certainly there were warning signs, there were red flags. Let's just hope that at some point, I know we asked the school, We ask students to pay attention to those red flags. If you see something, say something, and we have seen that prevent mass tragedies. But yeah, parents, parents need to do better, and this case maybe will make that very very evident to parents out there who have guns in their homes. And with that, we just wanted to jump on and let you know what that verdict was. And potentially what that may mean in cases going forward, but we will always keep you up to date on what's happening around the world.
00:21:57
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for listening to us. Everybody, I made Robot alongside t J. Holmes. We'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 1: Hey, folks, it is Tuesday, March third, and guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty, twenty seven times over. A jury in Georgia has found a dad criminally responsible for his son shooting up a school with that Welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ Roapes. This is the case people were watching, not just because of this, but the implications down the road. And this jury did not take long to figure this out.
00:00:33
Speaker 2: I have to say I was frankly surprised, not just at all the guilty verdicts, because this is the first time we have seen a father charged with second degree murder. There is a previous case that we can talk about from a year ago where they were found guilty of manslaughter, but second degree murder four charges or four counts of that in addition to manslaughter and so many other charges as you mentioned in twenty seven to be.
00:01:02
Speaker 3: Specific.
00:01:04
Speaker 2: And yeah, less than two hours, less than two hours, after two weeks of testimony, there was a lot to digest. Colin Gray even took the stand in his own defense, his daughter took the stand, his I guess estranged wife took the stand.
00:01:17
Speaker 3: That's a lot to.
00:01:18
Speaker 2: Process and to go through and they were quick and decisive.
00:01:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, it might be a reason they were quick and decisive that we'll get into here in a second as well. But Colin Gray, of folks who remember this was the shooting, this is the dad we're talking about. The Sun is cult fourteen years old, accused of and he is still in jail. That's something else was wild. The dad has been held responsible for the shooting that the Sun hasn't even been found guilty of yet. But this is where we are. But yes, the shooting was in two thousand and four at a high school just north of Atlanta, in September of twenty twenty four, Appalachi High School there. And here's the thing, bro Again, we've seen so many school shootings. We have seen some parents at least held accountable, but unfortunately, Robes. This is important to keep an eye on because we're probably gonna have more school shootings and this is Is it possible this could help cut down on or prevent even one because parents now are going who whah, whoa, Let me pay attention to my own child and lock this gun up.
00:02:26
Speaker 2: Yes, I think that may be the hope. I've read a statistic based on this case and looking back at school shootings. They said three out of every four school shootings, the gun that was used was found in the family home. So yes, this is a serious issue. And look, this is in an area of the country. This is winder Georgia. This is right by Athens, Georgia. My brother lives in Winder. I am very familiar with this community. You've even seen the area. It's bucolic, You've got a lot of hunters, a lot of farmers. But guns are a big way of life in this part of the world. And this is about a lot where fathers will give their sons guns, they'll go hunting together. And that was the story that Colin Gray's attorney was trying to paint for this jury, that this is a father who was trying to connect with his troubled son. He found something that his son actually liked and was good at, and this was a way for them to bond. In no way did he think that this was going to lead to the tragedy it led to.
00:03:26
Speaker 3: But that was the defense's.
00:03:29
Speaker 2: Version of why and how Colt Gray had access to this gun that was not locked up, that was not and that isn't against Georgia law.
00:03:40
Speaker 3: By the way, and people have pointed that out.
00:03:42
Speaker 1: That's not the if. That wasn't the point that you said. The shortest and simplest and most common sense thing ever had a troubled son let me bond with him by putting a gun in his hand. That sounds insane, it does when you put it that simply, but they did. They went over story after story after story, and this kid's background brought people in who had whatever kind of experience with him. They showed his there was nothing robes about. Anyone who spent time with him was aware well the problems he had. This was not something he was hiding. This kid was even violent with his own with his own family, So the jury was not buying it. And then he gave him a gun for what Christmas? And then he wasn't supposed to use it to it he was late? What was that?
00:04:30
Speaker 2: So they were trying to split hairs, in my opinion, and the jury didn't buy it because the prosecution was saying, what does this dad do when he knows his son is in trouble and has gone back and forth between mom's home, who, by the way, is a drug addict, and she testified and that wasn't known fact, she was incredible.
00:04:49
Speaker 3: She was suffering from a.
00:04:50
Speaker 2: Meth addiction actually during this period of time. So we ended up going back and forth between his mom's home and his dad's home.
00:04:55
Speaker 3: So what does his dad do on Christmas morning? Last present?
00:04:59
Speaker 2: Wraps up a gun and then, according to the defense, he says, now, this isn't actually yours until you've earned the right to.
00:05:07
Speaker 3: Actually have it and you come of age.
00:05:10
Speaker 2: But come on, you give your fourteen year old son a gun at Christmas and say this isn't a gift that's yours.
00:05:16
Speaker 3: That was a tough pill to swallow.
00:05:19
Speaker 1: So, yes, the jury didn't buy it. But maybe the courtroom today, I guess we were a little surprised that the verdict. We got word that the verdict was coming because the jury just got instructions yesterday. They just got closing arguments yesterday, and we're supposed to come in and start fresh, and they started this morning and they were done in two hours. On what is or it feels like a complicated case, But they heard a lot of evidence and twenty seven counts that seemed like a lot of robes. They were not buying it at all. The color from the courtroom today I didn't see him bat nye.
00:05:51
Speaker 2: He did not react at all, you know, I noticed, So it doesn't. It always works a little bit differently in different courtrooms. But the judge had kind of set the saying, when the jury comes in, they're going to hand the verdict over to me.
00:06:04
Speaker 3: I'm going to read it.
00:06:05
Speaker 2: I'm going to call up counsel, the prosecution and the defense and let them read it, and then it's going to be announced. I saw after the prosecution or the prosecutor looked at the sheet, she looked back at her team and gave a nod, and I knew in that moment that he was going to be found guilty.
00:06:20
Speaker 1: How often do we see that? I am not used to that taking place. That Okay, the jury, Yeah, sure, the judge will see the verdict first, but to call them I'm trying to think of a single time I've seen that. What was that about.
00:06:33
Speaker 2: I've never seen that before, And it was weird because now it was as if I mean, I'm sure, if I'm Colin Gray, I'm staring, yes.
00:06:41
Speaker 1: Figured it out.
00:06:42
Speaker 2: I'm staring at the prosecution and the defense deceive if there's any reaction when they read it, and she clearly gave a reaction of we got this.
00:06:50
Speaker 1: You didn't give the I didn't hear him give the attorney's instructions to also not react. But how can you not as a human being. You're looking at two people who are in different sizes. You look at a sheet of paper. One of you got good news, one of you got bad news. I promise you I can tell yes.
00:07:05
Speaker 2: And so that is so I was saying, maybe that's why when they actually did the reading, he didn't react because he already knew what was happening. But yeah, he was stonefaced, he was stoic. He but after all the emotion of what he went through to watch your own thirteen year old daughter testify against you and say even she saw this coming, he has been through the ringer. I mean to me, as a parent, knowing that your child committed the horrific act that he did, knowing that he's going to prison for the rest of his life, knowing that your daughter just testified against you and your marriage is I mean, he has been through And I'm not comparing at all the suffering that these poor you know, families have gone through, who lost children, lost loved ones, two teachers, two students and so many others injured. But I would just imagine he's probably at this point vacant of emotion.
00:07:57
Speaker 3: You'd almost have to be to survive.
00:08:00
Speaker 1: And the thing about it robes and again, we always stare at the defendant to see if they're going to react. I never saw anything, and there was a lot of opportunity to see something because of how they had to read the jury verdicts. There were so many, so it was very repetitive. Count fifteen cruelty to children guilty, Count sixteen cruelty to a child guilty. So they really did go through twenty seven lines like that, and it took a while, and so we had a long time to stare at him on a camera and an opportunity for him to react at some point. But after you hear the first guilty, I guess you know what's coming. But it was a long list of stuff.
00:08:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think maybe he even had an I kind of I kind of even glazed over because you obviously knew what was coming. You weren't expecting there to be a not guilty sandwiched in there. I mean, maybe he thought but if the biggest charges which were read first second degree murder and then manslaughter.
00:09:05
Speaker 3: If he was guilty on those counts.
00:09:07
Speaker 2: It just seems almost certain that he would be guilty on all the other counts. And so yeah, there was a long, long period of time where he just had to sit there and listen, as you said, off the top.
00:09:19
Speaker 3: Guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty.
00:09:22
Speaker 1: One other thing that's on my mind remembering this, right, was he seated?
00:09:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they're usually standing. Everything was different in this in this courtroom for whatever reason.
00:09:33
Speaker 1: Georgia different down there, and Georgia they do.
00:09:37
Speaker 2: And a lot of eyes were on Georgia do because of what this case implies for other cases that are waiting in the wings and certainly going forward. You know, the silver lining would be if parents who are gun owners, who see their children struggling mentally, emotionally, actually look at this case and I know, no one thinks their child is capable of this. We even heard when the defense was giving the closing arguments. How could Colin have known what was going to happen? Even his own mother didn't think that he was capable of this, Although his own mother did call the school and give the school a heads up that she was concerned about her son. That day, and sadly they're just they didn't react in time to stop him. He was already in the bathroom, I believe when he called, assembling the gun and getting ready to come out, and they just didn't get him in time. But look, I thought this was a very compelling point that the prosecution made in their closing arguments. They said they compared Colin to a parent who gives their child alcohol, a beer or whatever, alcohol and keys to the car. You have to accept responsibility at that point. She compared what he did to that by giving his troubled son a gun.
00:10:43
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think because I remember what you're talking about, and I thought it was a good analogy as well, you're not. I think it was the car versus the alcohol. She was maybe you're not in trouble for giving your child a car. You're not in trouble for your child driving and maybe hitting and killing somebody. You're not in trouble because you gave him the car. But now you give him a six pack. That was the thing, so they said, And I thought it was that's funny that that thing stood out to both of us. The point she was making that no, it's not necessarily that you gave him a gun. It's who you gave the gun too. Knowing what was or possibly going to happen. You made this now a dangerous situation. She was effective in that one.
00:11:31
Speaker 2: I think every parent that is where it hits. And I don't know what the makeup of the jury was, how many of them were parents. I was thinking about this like, are you as a jury member looking at it as a parent, thinking oh no, if I find this man guilty, this parent guilty. Am I now saying all parents are responsible for all bad acts of their children if they're miners and under their care. But that isn't what this case was about. And I think the prosecution did a good job about making it very specific and saying basically, hey, you out there, who a parent would you give your children?
00:12:01
Speaker 3: Load them up with alcohol, and then give them the keys and say good luck.
00:12:04
Speaker 2: So I think everyone could look at it from that very specific scenario and think absolutely not and comparing it to that I think was very effective.
00:12:13
Speaker 1: And you know, and that might be the thing Robes. This could make a difference. This could be a big deal, and this was a big story, and if it causes more parents out there to Yes, keep a close eye on your kid and what they're up to, and take it seriously when you see something suspicious, and even not that just be shouldn't we all be damn sure if we got kids in the house, they do not have an opportunity at all to access a gun if we don't want them to.
00:12:43
Speaker 3: Yes.
00:12:43
Speaker 2: I think as a parent and someone who yes, who has gone through some of those difficult teen years, we are responsible for what our kids do and what we give them, and how we treat them and recognizing signs.
00:12:58
Speaker 3: That's part of our job as parents. For sure. I do hope that this does send a message.
00:13:04
Speaker 1: It could, This could actually make a difference. Again, this is happening now, but it's not the first. We have had other cases and another you are going to remember that set precedent for this type of thing. Yes, this is the first parent held responsible, and there are other cases out there pending. We'll get into those and what happens next in the case in Georgia, to the dad and to the son, stay here.
00:13:39
Speaker 3: Welcome back to this episode of Amy and TJ.
00:13:41
Speaker 2: We are talking about the guilty verdicts that just came down in the case out of winder Georgia. Colin Gray, fifty five year old parent to Colt Gray, held criminally responsible significantly so convicted four counts of second degree murder, four counts of manslaw, and dozens of other counts of cruelty to children, etc. Found guilty on all counts because his fourteen year old son at the time, the fourteen year old son shot and killed four people, two students, two teachers at that high school in winder Georgia, and injured dozens of others. And yes, he has now been held criminally responsible and right now, just on the second degree murder charges, he is facing thirty years behind bars.
00:14:28
Speaker 3: Some folks have done the math.
00:14:29
Speaker 2: And said he's actually looking at if you look at all the guilty counts that he was found guilty of he was convicted of, he could be facing up to one hundred and eighty years behind bars. His sentencing has been deferred. We don't have a sentencing date yet. Who knows what the judge is going to do, if they're going to actually throw the book at him and give him the maximum, which would basically be life in prison. But this is serious. This isn't a slap on the wrist. This isn't you should have known better. This is Colin Gray never getting out of prison.
00:15:00
Speaker 1: Get They are saying, those kids would be alive, those teachers would be alive had it not been for your actions. I mean, Robes, that's that's uh No, he didn't pull the trigger, but man, he sure teat that kid up. Is what they're saying with his message. And it is still remarkable to me that he could be convicted before the son.
00:15:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he already the son by the way, Colt, I guess he would be fifteen now or so, but he's still young, obviously being charged as an adult in this case. But he doesn't even have a trial date. He has a hearing, I believe next month, but that's.
00:15:39
Speaker 3: It, just a pre trial hearing. We don't have even a trial date, said Yees.
00:15:43
Speaker 2: So it's interesting prosecutors in Georgia chose to go after the father first before the son. I don't know the reasoning behind that, or the thinking behind that.
00:15:53
Speaker 1: I don't know the legalities behind that. It seems odd that he's been held responsible for a crime and the son hasn't been held responsible for that crime. How could the I don't know what's going to happen in the trial line of weird things happened, he would I, I don't get that. I need to ask lawyer about that.
00:16:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean because the only other case, and you reference this when we went to break there is one case out of Michigan where this was Oxford High School the shooting. The school shooting happened in twenty twenty one. It actually is eerily similar to this case. Four people died and the shooter was a fifteen year old student named Ethan Plumley. Both of his parents were held accountable. They were only charged and convicted with four counts of manslaughter, but they were and are at least the first parents ever convicted in a mass shooting and again bottom a gun ignored the warning signs.
00:16:48
Speaker 3: Very very similar case.
00:16:49
Speaker 2: But their son Ethan pleaded guilty, so he was already and is already in prison for the rest of his life. And that happened before they brought his par parents to court, so they did it in reverse, or at least he decided for whatever reason.
00:17:05
Speaker 3: To plead guilty and not go through a lengthy trial.
00:17:08
Speaker 1: But that was that was a big moment. That was a big deal for those parents. They were the first, I guess in this and you know what, A lot of times, a lot of I think a lot of parents you can't help. But some people actually say it on social media. But sometimes it's in the back of your mind when you see these school shootings, you see, well, how did the parents not know? Or you start to blame, like how do they not know? Or how could they not keep an eye on their kid? Or oh, I feel bad, what kind of kid did you raise? People do that kind of stuff ropes, and generally they haven't gone after parents. But these are a different kind of egregious cases, but cases, but they haven't generally done.
00:17:46
Speaker 2: So yes, and I've even heard people say that person should be held accountable. Look in some of these school shootings, I hate to be Ma Cob here, but we have seen the shooter go and kill the person who gave them the gun, the mother, the father, and then go and shoot this.
00:18:00
Speaker 3: So we've seen folks.
00:18:02
Speaker 2: Not held accountable criminally or legally, but certainly they pay the ultimate price with their life. That that was the case in Uvaldi, I remember that very clearly. But this is going to set precedent. Interestingly enough, the plumb leis James and Jennifer Plumley, the first couple convicted for their son's actions. They, I say, only, but they only got ten to fifteen years for their charges, So they'll be out of prison, you know, I don't know with credit for time served all of that probably in less than a decade. This guy, Colin Gray is almost certainly never getting out of prison.
00:18:37
Speaker 1: But they both I mean, that sends a message right to a parent, even saying ten years in prison if I'm not careful about guns in my home and keeping an eye on my kid robes, that is a significant I said, I know what you mean. Ten to fifteen compared to life is not my friends, but my goodness, that's going to send a message. I don't know about these other There is another case pending. I didn't even realize there was a Dad Abundant Life Christian school. Two were killed in that a teenage girl, I believe, and then she ended up taking her own life. I believe that was in Madison. But there's a Dad awaiting trial on that one. I think a lot of people remember the one the fourth of July parade or where he kind of was plucking people off at this parade that was in Chicago in twenty twenty two that dad did plead guilty to reckless conduct. I don't know if he got jail time or how much jail time there. And then Newport News the six year old had a gun and shot a teacher at school. Now this one wrote, somebody needs to be held responsible for that one. Yes, well as a six year old got a gun.
00:19:43
Speaker 2: Yes, there's only one way a six year old got a gun. And again this is one of the many cases. Again, seventy five percent of these school shootings happened and a gun is used from the home. And in that case the mom pleaded guilty to gun charges and got four years in prison. So it looks like from everything we've seen, and this is all fairly recent in terms of charging parents, this case, today's guilty verdict and the sentencing that is going to follow is certainly the most severe punishment we have seen to date, and it will be interesting to see what it does to just I don't know how parents assume responsibility. I still would think the problem with this being a deterrent is that no, I think most parents don't think their kids have this in them. They don't think their kids are capable of this kind of heinous violence. Yeah.
00:20:36
Speaker 1: And also most parents know their kids do not behave the way these kids have been described as behaving, this one in particular, cold great, some of the stuff that came out of this trial. No, that's a little beyond whoh not my baby.
00:20:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, And they were just like I believe, he had a psychiatric evaluation schedule for March fifth, the following day, the day after the school shooting, So they had been dragging their feet, and I understand in trying to get him outside help for his very obvious and documentable aggressions.
00:21:13
Speaker 3: And emotional problems.
00:21:15
Speaker 2: I mean, he didn't even go to school his eighth grade year, that's how bad it was. So certainly there were warning signs, there were red flags. Let's just hope that at some point, I know we asked the school, We ask students to pay attention to those red flags. If you see something, say something, and we have seen that prevent mass tragedies. But yeah, parents, parents need to do better, and this case maybe will make that very very evident to parents out there who have guns in their homes. And with that, we just wanted to jump on and let you know what that verdict was. And potentially what that may mean in cases going forward, but we will always keep you up to date on what's happening around the world.
00:21:57
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for listening to us. Everybody, I made Robot alongside t J. Holmes. We'll talk to you soon.