June 10, 2026
TX Congresswoman Defends Karmelo Anthony, Says Victim’s Family Wouldn’t Understand Pain Of Black Mothers
Apple Podcasts 
Spotify 
Castro 
RSS Feed Within hours of Karmelo Anthony’s first degree murder verdict, Texas congresswoman Jasmine Crockett defended Anthony’s use of a deadly weapon, saying if she had someone on top of her, she wouldn’t be limited to fists either. The problem, Crockett was comparing a much different scenario than what happened at that Texas high school stadium. Earlier, Crockett explained the fear black mothers have for their black sons, but seemingly dismissed the pain of the Austin Metcalf’s mother, creating a wave of negative, racially charged comments online.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hey, folks, it is Wednesday, July tenth, and an outgoing member of Congress has set off an interesting conversation by suggesting that she too might have stabbed Austin Metcalf and also suggesting that Austin Metcalf's parents don't understand what it's like for a black mother in this country. She of course making all these comments after the verdict and sentencing in the murder trial of Carmelo Anthony. With that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ Rope. As we speak here is getting early evening here, But Jasmine Crockett, Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett's name has been one of the top trending topics all day, and holy hell.
00:00:54
Speaker 2: And look, it's unfortunate because some of what she say good point, understandable, and actually could move a conversation in the direction that it needs to. Unfortunately, while she's asking for understanding and asking folks to look through a different lens, she's also denying a lens that Austin Metcalf's parents and family clearly are living.
00:01:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is a fascinating conversation. In Robes, I heard some of her initial comments, the initial sound bites that were out and she made these comments on her podcast.
00:01:34
Speaker 2: Yes, on her.
00:01:35
Speaker 1: Part, she had a panel discussion going. So everybody at this point knows what's going on in Texas. Carmelo Anthony seventeen years old when he stabbed another seventeen year old in the chest, Austin Metcalf had a tract meet when the two of them were beefing. Austin Metcalf dies, and now the jury just convicted Carmelo of murder and he's getting thirty five years in prison. So a lot of comments and commentary out there about it. So that's what she's talking about, Robes. So the first part that got people going, and this was the first sound bite I saw, was the suggestion she was making as if Austin Metcalf's parents, his mother in particular, can't relate to a black.
00:02:10
Speaker 2: Mother, right, And there was no acknowledgment of the fact that Austin Metcalf's mother has lost her son tragically and is living through a pain that, yes, a lot of black mothers have lived through. So it was dismissive of her pain in trying to get people to understand a vantage point of a black mother that, yes, white mothers and other mothers of different races wouldn't possibly understand. But in order to try and get understanding, she dismissed the pain of someone else.
00:02:40
Speaker 1: And that's how it sounded. So we're gonna let you hear it now. This is the particular SoundBite that really got a conversation, and a lot of it was an ugly conversation going online. Take a listen here now is Congresswoman Jasmin Crockett.
00:02:54
Speaker 3: Black women, especially Black women who have black male children, live in fear in agony every single day, a fear in agony that I promise you the Metcalfs probably never spend a day live in that way. And we're gonna have to have just some real conversations about race in this country.
00:03:22
Speaker 1: We get what she was saying, and there's more converse context for fuller conversation that went on an hour, but rhase that a lot of people pluck that out, and when you hear that isolated, it seems a little dismissive and a little You could even go as far as offensive to suggest that a mother whose child is dead is in some way lacking and understanding of some other suffering, just comparative suffering.
00:03:51
Speaker 2: Never works, yes, and to act as though the Metcalf family doesn't know what it's like to fear or the pain of any sort of fear. Look, both families have been going through and actually experiencing death threats, and this has been a volatile situation there in Texas. Even though the actual murder itself wasn't because one person was white and the other person was black, people have taken sides, and so now both the Metcalfs and the Anthony's have actually both experienced real fear where people are upset from either side. So look, I just don't think I know what she was saying, but she alienated the people who she probably needed to bring into the conversation to actually create the understanding she was asking for in that moment.
00:04:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that really set off and ugly back and forth row ups that's been going on all day online.
00:04:52
Speaker 4: It really really did.
00:04:55
Speaker 1: And we'll get to the part where it was worth moving the conversation forward. And forwarded that email to you some notes, And I was trying to give people an idea. I know that the Internet, the comments section and Twitter, especially where these conversations happen, you hear some of the most extreme voices, But I was trying to set give some kind of context robes for the conversation and the things that are being lobbied back and forth.
00:05:21
Speaker 2: Now, yeah, So these are all online online comments.
00:05:26
Speaker 4: From from response to her comments on it.
00:05:28
Speaker 2: So here are just a few samples. You are a sad, little uneducated racist. You people, oh white people reparations for freeing you from slavery. Your own people sold you into six hundred and fifty thousand men died during the Civil War to free black people. The Freedom Act gave you reparations, and your beloved Democrats took it away. Obviously from a white person, I am sick and tired of the Democrats playing the race card for everything. Idolizing skin color has completely robbed you of common sense and decency. How dare you compare just being a black woman to the horror of losing a child? Jasmine Crockett believes the mere existence of black women in America is more painful than a white family watching their son murdered and living with that reality. It's impossible to have a conversation with people who live in this level of delusion and perpetual fake victim high.
00:06:30
Speaker 4: Okay, you get the idea.
00:06:32
Speaker 1: Yes, Robes, that's the thing that set people off, not to a certain degree. Obviously there was some yes, and if you think these are extreme, there are plenty of those, so there is a community of those types of commons. But Robes the idea of comparative suffering. Why do we have to compare one person suffering to another and compare who's suffering more than another? I would not obviously begin to suggest that a mother with a still breathing child on earth in any way a suffering more or compared in any way.
00:07:08
Speaker 4: Rope she's trying to make.
00:07:09
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what point she was making, but it gets lost because it gets offensive, right.
00:07:13
Speaker 2: Because look, this is the sad thing. Both sides of these types of debates typically get it wrong because they refuse to acknowledge the other person's pain. And she did exactly what she is upset about and fell right into the same narrative where, yes, you want people to focus on your unnoticed pain or your unseen pain or your unfelt pain. And in order for us to want to come over either side you're talking about, there needs to be an acknowledgment that, yes, I don't know how much more I'm suffering than you, or how much more you're suffering than me. I couldn't know, I wouldn't know, but acknowledging that that other side also is experiencing something in this case specifically where you do have a grievance, you do have a mother who's lost her son to violence, and to not even acknowledge that while trying to make your point, is going to make everyone never even hear your point and in fact solidify the sides even more. Like it did more damage than good.
00:08:21
Speaker 1: And I will give credit to it, and I'm not We're not suggesting at all that she does not have sympathy for the Metcalf family. It's an hour plus long podcast, but this is the thing that's been plucked out, and this is the thing that's making headlines, and this is the thing that people are commenting on, this one that we let you here in particular, and now this one we're going to let you hear now that really, I guess people came to their own conclusion, but you see what she's trying to suggest here, Take a listen here again, Congresswoman jasmccroppert, Democrat of Texas, talking about Austin Metcalf and Carmelo Anthony's right to respond if you will take a listen, if a.
00:09:05
Speaker 3: Three hundred pound man is beating me, like on top of me and beating me down, I'm not limited to fist.
00:09:16
Speaker 1: She was trying to suggest that you have the right if there was a bigger person, a more threatening person, more intimidating person, you have some right to use something other than your fists.
00:09:30
Speaker 2: But she's absolutely twisting what actually happened. There was no three hundred pound person man on top of a woman. First of all, no one was on top of anyone. She also, i think, went on to explain like pinned me down. None of that actually took place at that track meet. So it's not a fair comparison.
00:09:48
Speaker 1: And at all, it's not not a literal, full complete comparison.
00:09:55
Speaker 4: That she was trying to make roads, but the suggestion was still there. That was a direct comparison. She was trying to suggest that Carmelo Anthony.
00:10:03
Speaker 2: In some way had a right to have a knife met the response.
00:10:08
Speaker 1: He responded, he met the threat with and his response was in some way understandable, is what she was trying to explain. Again, that's being plucked out. If you want to take the time and listen to the whole hour, and maybe you feel differently about it. But I mean, she said what she said, and she stands by what she said. I don't know the comparative suffering robes and in some way suggesting that a stab to the chest. It's just complicated robes. These are complicated conversations. But it doesn't help when a member of Congress, in my opinion, says something just it sounds so painfully offensive. And use the word cruel earlier in something we.
00:10:54
Speaker 4: Were talking about.
00:10:54
Speaker 1: In this case, it seems cruel in some way to take away the pain in some way that the Metcalf family and the mom is having.
00:11:03
Speaker 2: In particular, I would just ask what Congressman Crockett wanted. What was her goal, and if her goal was to create a bridge, or to create understanding, or to shine a light on the fact that there should have been a black person on that jury. Yes, to shine a light on the fact that there is real fear in the black community when you're surrounded by white folks who might be bigger than you. I think all of those things are valid conversations to have, but you basically shut everyone down when you start and you make comments the way she made them, no one's going to hear anything she has to say after that, And in fact, I do think she did more damage than good. The whole point is, and I understand there are a lot of emotions attached to this with people who've had real experiences that I will never understand or experience. But if you want people to come together and listen, if you want real change, you can't make comments. I just don't think it's healthy or helpful to make the comments she made.
00:11:58
Speaker 1: So this is where I will I will give a little bit of the audience might not have been you. I'm saying she was having this conversation with her people. She had a panel of black folks on her podcast, and robes quite frankly, she whoever her listeners are, might not be your audience at all, might not be you at all, So she might be talking to folks in which this is a more receptive audience in a more receptive ear. There's plenty of what she heard, and I hear it and I understand it, but some of that doesn't help in a grander conversation for people who aren't used to hearing us talk in that way. Or in that intimate space. So no, it's a conversation worth having, sure, and let's discuss. But man, when a clip like that, when's one thing. And I'm sure she wasn't thinking about that robes. She was talking to her people and that came out. Now it's being used and she was already a firebrand.
00:13:03
Speaker 2: She was and she is, yes, but she did say in that same podcast that Americans need to have real conversations about race in this country. She's a leader, she's an elected official, so I think she's probably aware that anyway. I just think these types of conversations, Is this the direction that she's hoping it goes in? I guess that's why I asked what her goal was? What did she want to accomplish? Did she want to down did she want downloads? Did she want reaction? Did she want headlines? Or did she actually want to try and have real conversations.
00:13:33
Speaker 1: She might have been having it. I'm saying she might have wanted to get something off her chest.
00:13:38
Speaker 4: She's upset. This is emotional.
00:13:40
Speaker 1: We've been emotional about this case for all sides, and can understand a.
00:13:44
Speaker 4: Whole bunch of stuff.
00:13:45
Speaker 1: But Roe, do you talk about her in the conversation she did, in my opinion, really did help move the conversation for with something else she said today, and of all people, she said it to TMZ stay here.
00:14:01
Speaker 2: And hey there everybody, and welcome back to this episode of Amy and TJ. We're talking about Texas Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett. She has said a few things, a lot of things actually got her podcasts that are making quite a few headlines regarding black teenager Carmelo Anthony, who was just convicted yesterday a first degree murder is going to spend thirty five years or at least was sentenced to thirty five years behind bars, And she made some comments that have certainly made some waves and created some pretty ugly headlines. What do you think about the inference? Look, she said, Look, if I were pinned down, if I had a three hundred pound man on me, you know, it wouldn't just I wouldn't just need my fists. But the suggestion is, and all the headlines are saying that basically Congresswoman Crockett said she might have stabbed him to death. Do you think that's a fair jump. No, people are taking that liberty and treating that headline.
00:15:03
Speaker 4: I think that's a little soovar.
00:15:04
Speaker 1: She that's a little souvar And I know they're just trying to make the headline, but I think that's too far. But what she said is what she said, and the suggestion being no, not even suggestions. She said, if I am under that type of threat, then it is okay for me to use a weapon.
00:15:24
Speaker 2: The problem is Anthony. It's from what we heard from court and from what we the jury certainly decided Carmelo Anthony was not under that kind of threat.
00:15:32
Speaker 4: Oh no, no, no suggestion.
00:15:34
Speaker 2: Part of the other issue. If people don't know the trial that well, they hear her say that, all of a sudden, they think, oh my god, we've got a George Floyd incident here going on. Except it wasn't a police officer. It was another fellow, seventeen year old, and the reverse happened. He died.
00:15:48
Speaker 1: Oh no, So that part no. But again, in the greater context of this conversation, any suggestion in this case, and I know they tried to make it in court as well, but from every witness account, that just wasn't the case. But that was the other clip that got everybody going. But Robes the one that is worth listening to. The one that is worth a conversation is Who's caught in the Halls of Congress by TMZ that was asking her questions and this is what she said, and please please listen closely because she does make great points that I do believe, we do believe, or part of the race conversation that should be taking place.
00:16:29
Speaker 4: Take a listen.
00:16:29
Speaker 3: Thirty five years for a kid who had decided to go under a tent that was not his team's tent as it was raining, and simply didn't want to be put out in the rain by some random kid that he didn't know who was larger than him. Listen, a lot of people don't know what it is to live as a black person in this country. But just like you can give the benefit of the doubt to so many police officers when they go out and they shoot some black unarmed person even though they are trained, the fact that there was little to no mercy seeing or humanity scene. When this black boy say that I was scared.
00:17:06
Speaker 4: She got me there.
00:17:07
Speaker 1: She's right, she's right, she made a very good point, and maybe a lot of people don't think she's the right messenger, but that message has got to come through somewhere robes and that is why it's so upsetting that it was not a black juror at all.
00:17:25
Speaker 2: Yes, and you and I had this conversation about that same exact notion that if you don't have a black person on the jury, there's no one who could even imagine what it might have felt like at any point for Carmelo Anthony, and that perspective could have been helpful when the jury was deliberating. And unfortunately, when you talk about Jasmine Crockett being the messenger of that, if she had just kept that tone and I don't want to obviously it's her podcast, and you mentioned she had her people, and these are people she felt comfortable with having a very specific type of conversation, but how she spoke to TMC that message, that point is valid, but it gets lost. It gets lost because she said the other things that are so incendiary that upset people so much that when she actually has something valuable that could have been thought provoking or at least maybe open someone's heart or mind in a different way, it gets erased when you make other comments that become more headline grabbing.
00:18:24
Speaker 4: That's so it's difficult.
00:18:28
Speaker 1: I know, It's difficult to put yourself in somebody else's position and to understand somebody else's fear in those moments. But there are people who can relate being surrounded by someone outside of your race and being absolutely intimidated by that. Where he is, what the schools were, the fact that he's in Texas, incidents that have happened in Texas over the years, Ropes, there are things and reasons, and there are places in the South. I'm still scared to go at certain hours, Robes. I've been places with you. I have been to what was supposed to be an enjoyable concert atmosphere, and I told you, I am flat out fearful of one little thing going wrong, and I could get killed in here because I'm surrounded by nobody that looks like me. That is real to where you were, Like, what in God's name are you talking about? And you look around and go oh yeah, oh, yeah, oh, But it was a comfortable atmosphere for you. That is a real world example, Robes. If we could be sitting in the same place, surrounded by the same people and experience something different. I'm not excusing Carmelo Anthony at all for how he reacted. He should not have done what he did, but there is a fear that he might have had that only a black person and on that jury could have been able to explain to the others.
00:20:04
Speaker 2: And that makes sense for anyone to imagine you being the only person of one race and surrounded by a race that historically has had all the power, and to know that history in that moment. Like you said, it doesn't excuse these choices, and it doesn't mean he shouldn't have been punished and found guilty in all of the above. But I just wish the conversation could be that conversation instead of the one we're having now because of what Congressman Crockett said on her podcast. That's the frustrating thing for me, because there is such an opportunity to have this conversation about why it is important to have a jury of your peers truly in these moments, because there are perspectives that if we really are honest with ourselves, we can't imagine. Again, it doesn't maybe necessarily change guilt or innocence, but it might. It might change the sentencing. It might change the difference between first to be murder and manslaughter. The difference between thirty five years and fifteen years. It absolutely could have probably almost certainly would have had an impact on the outcome. Even if it was just slight, it still would have been a perspective that what it should have been welcomed In a conversation, I.
00:21:21
Speaker 1: Thought that was a perfect comparison to make because we've seen plenty of cases of police officers, yeah, seemingly guilty as hell based on what sometimes even we see on video, that often get acquitted, and oftentimes the reason of the logic they use robes is that this officer has the right to a reasonable fear of his life and he can respond with deadly force. We give the cop the benefit of the doubt. It's hard to give a black kid a benefit of the doubt that he was that scared a being surrounded by white people.
00:22:00
Speaker 2: I will tell you the first time I have ever well, I've had the experience with a girlfriend, just a friend of mine, walking into an all white establishment and kind of being a little taken about, like, oh wow, wait, you're concern She's like, everyone's staring at us. I'm like they are. We were in the Deep South, and all of a sudden I looked around and I for the first time of my life, I saw something from a different perspective. And then with you the concert, specifically you're talking about it is at fifty At the thing, I was fifty two. At fifty two years old, I was like, holy hell, I've never seen it through this lens before ever, And now I am because I'm with someone I love, and I can see things in a way that I couldn't have before. And look, if we could all have more of those experiences, we might be a little less judgmental. We would we all might be a little less quick to pick sides and just maybe just for one second, imagine walking in another person's shoes.
00:22:55
Speaker 1: You just hit it. We're not having conversations. We're having fights.
00:23:00
Speaker 4: That's what we do here.
00:23:00
Speaker 1: We're fighting about something. We're not having a conversation about it. And this once again same thing. So folks of you talk about it, please be open minded and open hearted to this conversation, which I do think. Jas mcrogory was absolutely right. It's worth having and worth talking about. And she did make a good point about seeing it from Carmelo's perspective or people being in his shoes, and she made a good it was worth talking about. But unfortunately rooms here we go again. We just what we do every time something happens. We come out of our corners, we go to the middle of the ring, we fight it out, then we take a break go back into our respective corners. That's how we have conversations in this country.
00:23:41
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, you are correct, but look, I do think it can open a conversation where you can actually have understanding and listening happening. Yeah, I mean maybe we just have to keep it on the micro level and hope, slowly but surely things do expand. And you know, you have your own personal experience and you lead by example, You lead by how you speak to one another and how you treat each other. So it's an interesting conversation that should be to happening more often with more people. And it's all about exposing yourself to other points of view. So we hope this helps. We hope you had at least a takeaway from this conversation. We always appreciate you listening to us. Everyone. I'm Amy Robach alongside TJ. Holmes. We'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 1: Hey, folks, it is Wednesday, July tenth, and an outgoing member of Congress has set off an interesting conversation by suggesting that she too might have stabbed Austin Metcalf and also suggesting that Austin Metcalf's parents don't understand what it's like for a black mother in this country. She of course making all these comments after the verdict and sentencing in the murder trial of Carmelo Anthony. With that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ Rope. As we speak here is getting early evening here, But Jasmine Crockett, Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett's name has been one of the top trending topics all day, and holy hell.
00:00:54
Speaker 2: And look, it's unfortunate because some of what she say good point, understandable, and actually could move a conversation in the direction that it needs to. Unfortunately, while she's asking for understanding and asking folks to look through a different lens, she's also denying a lens that Austin Metcalf's parents and family clearly are living.
00:01:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is a fascinating conversation. In Robes, I heard some of her initial comments, the initial sound bites that were out and she made these comments on her podcast.
00:01:34
Speaker 2: Yes, on her.
00:01:35
Speaker 1: Part, she had a panel discussion going. So everybody at this point knows what's going on in Texas. Carmelo Anthony seventeen years old when he stabbed another seventeen year old in the chest, Austin Metcalf had a tract meet when the two of them were beefing. Austin Metcalf dies, and now the jury just convicted Carmelo of murder and he's getting thirty five years in prison. So a lot of comments and commentary out there about it. So that's what she's talking about, Robes. So the first part that got people going, and this was the first sound bite I saw, was the suggestion she was making as if Austin Metcalf's parents, his mother in particular, can't relate to a black.
00:02:10
Speaker 2: Mother, right, And there was no acknowledgment of the fact that Austin Metcalf's mother has lost her son tragically and is living through a pain that, yes, a lot of black mothers have lived through. So it was dismissive of her pain in trying to get people to understand a vantage point of a black mother that, yes, white mothers and other mothers of different races wouldn't possibly understand. But in order to try and get understanding, she dismissed the pain of someone else.
00:02:40
Speaker 1: And that's how it sounded. So we're gonna let you hear it now. This is the particular SoundBite that really got a conversation, and a lot of it was an ugly conversation going online. Take a listen here now is Congresswoman Jasmin Crockett.
00:02:54
Speaker 3: Black women, especially Black women who have black male children, live in fear in agony every single day, a fear in agony that I promise you the Metcalfs probably never spend a day live in that way. And we're gonna have to have just some real conversations about race in this country.
00:03:22
Speaker 1: We get what she was saying, and there's more converse context for fuller conversation that went on an hour, but rhase that a lot of people pluck that out, and when you hear that isolated, it seems a little dismissive and a little You could even go as far as offensive to suggest that a mother whose child is dead is in some way lacking and understanding of some other suffering, just comparative suffering.
00:03:51
Speaker 2: Never works, yes, and to act as though the Metcalf family doesn't know what it's like to fear or the pain of any sort of fear. Look, both families have been going through and actually experiencing death threats, and this has been a volatile situation there in Texas. Even though the actual murder itself wasn't because one person was white and the other person was black, people have taken sides, and so now both the Metcalfs and the Anthony's have actually both experienced real fear where people are upset from either side. So look, I just don't think I know what she was saying, but she alienated the people who she probably needed to bring into the conversation to actually create the understanding she was asking for in that moment.
00:04:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that really set off and ugly back and forth row ups that's been going on all day online.
00:04:52
Speaker 4: It really really did.
00:04:55
Speaker 1: And we'll get to the part where it was worth moving the conversation forward. And forwarded that email to you some notes, And I was trying to give people an idea. I know that the Internet, the comments section and Twitter, especially where these conversations happen, you hear some of the most extreme voices, But I was trying to set give some kind of context robes for the conversation and the things that are being lobbied back and forth.
00:05:21
Speaker 2: Now, yeah, So these are all online online comments.
00:05:26
Speaker 4: From from response to her comments on it.
00:05:28
Speaker 2: So here are just a few samples. You are a sad, little uneducated racist. You people, oh white people reparations for freeing you from slavery. Your own people sold you into six hundred and fifty thousand men died during the Civil War to free black people. The Freedom Act gave you reparations, and your beloved Democrats took it away. Obviously from a white person, I am sick and tired of the Democrats playing the race card for everything. Idolizing skin color has completely robbed you of common sense and decency. How dare you compare just being a black woman to the horror of losing a child? Jasmine Crockett believes the mere existence of black women in America is more painful than a white family watching their son murdered and living with that reality. It's impossible to have a conversation with people who live in this level of delusion and perpetual fake victim high.
00:06:30
Speaker 4: Okay, you get the idea.
00:06:32
Speaker 1: Yes, Robes, that's the thing that set people off, not to a certain degree. Obviously there was some yes, and if you think these are extreme, there are plenty of those, so there is a community of those types of commons. But Robes the idea of comparative suffering. Why do we have to compare one person suffering to another and compare who's suffering more than another? I would not obviously begin to suggest that a mother with a still breathing child on earth in any way a suffering more or compared in any way.
00:07:08
Speaker 4: Rope she's trying to make.
00:07:09
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what point she was making, but it gets lost because it gets offensive, right.
00:07:13
Speaker 2: Because look, this is the sad thing. Both sides of these types of debates typically get it wrong because they refuse to acknowledge the other person's pain. And she did exactly what she is upset about and fell right into the same narrative where, yes, you want people to focus on your unnoticed pain or your unseen pain or your unfelt pain. And in order for us to want to come over either side you're talking about, there needs to be an acknowledgment that, yes, I don't know how much more I'm suffering than you, or how much more you're suffering than me. I couldn't know, I wouldn't know, but acknowledging that that other side also is experiencing something in this case specifically where you do have a grievance, you do have a mother who's lost her son to violence, and to not even acknowledge that while trying to make your point, is going to make everyone never even hear your point and in fact solidify the sides even more. Like it did more damage than good.
00:08:21
Speaker 1: And I will give credit to it, and I'm not We're not suggesting at all that she does not have sympathy for the Metcalf family. It's an hour plus long podcast, but this is the thing that's been plucked out, and this is the thing that's making headlines, and this is the thing that people are commenting on, this one that we let you here in particular, and now this one we're going to let you hear now that really, I guess people came to their own conclusion, but you see what she's trying to suggest here, Take a listen here again, Congresswoman jasmccroppert, Democrat of Texas, talking about Austin Metcalf and Carmelo Anthony's right to respond if you will take a listen, if a.
00:09:05
Speaker 3: Three hundred pound man is beating me, like on top of me and beating me down, I'm not limited to fist.
00:09:16
Speaker 1: She was trying to suggest that you have the right if there was a bigger person, a more threatening person, more intimidating person, you have some right to use something other than your fists.
00:09:30
Speaker 2: But she's absolutely twisting what actually happened. There was no three hundred pound person man on top of a woman. First of all, no one was on top of anyone. She also, i think, went on to explain like pinned me down. None of that actually took place at that track meet. So it's not a fair comparison.
00:09:48
Speaker 1: And at all, it's not not a literal, full complete comparison.
00:09:55
Speaker 4: That she was trying to make roads, but the suggestion was still there. That was a direct comparison. She was trying to suggest that Carmelo Anthony.
00:10:03
Speaker 2: In some way had a right to have a knife met the response.
00:10:08
Speaker 1: He responded, he met the threat with and his response was in some way understandable, is what she was trying to explain. Again, that's being plucked out. If you want to take the time and listen to the whole hour, and maybe you feel differently about it. But I mean, she said what she said, and she stands by what she said. I don't know the comparative suffering robes and in some way suggesting that a stab to the chest. It's just complicated robes. These are complicated conversations. But it doesn't help when a member of Congress, in my opinion, says something just it sounds so painfully offensive. And use the word cruel earlier in something we.
00:10:54
Speaker 4: Were talking about.
00:10:54
Speaker 1: In this case, it seems cruel in some way to take away the pain in some way that the Metcalf family and the mom is having.
00:11:03
Speaker 2: In particular, I would just ask what Congressman Crockett wanted. What was her goal, and if her goal was to create a bridge, or to create understanding, or to shine a light on the fact that there should have been a black person on that jury. Yes, to shine a light on the fact that there is real fear in the black community when you're surrounded by white folks who might be bigger than you. I think all of those things are valid conversations to have, but you basically shut everyone down when you start and you make comments the way she made them, no one's going to hear anything she has to say after that, And in fact, I do think she did more damage than good. The whole point is, and I understand there are a lot of emotions attached to this with people who've had real experiences that I will never understand or experience. But if you want people to come together and listen, if you want real change, you can't make comments. I just don't think it's healthy or helpful to make the comments she made.
00:11:58
Speaker 1: So this is where I will I will give a little bit of the audience might not have been you. I'm saying she was having this conversation with her people. She had a panel of black folks on her podcast, and robes quite frankly, she whoever her listeners are, might not be your audience at all, might not be you at all, So she might be talking to folks in which this is a more receptive audience in a more receptive ear. There's plenty of what she heard, and I hear it and I understand it, but some of that doesn't help in a grander conversation for people who aren't used to hearing us talk in that way. Or in that intimate space. So no, it's a conversation worth having, sure, and let's discuss. But man, when a clip like that, when's one thing. And I'm sure she wasn't thinking about that robes. She was talking to her people and that came out. Now it's being used and she was already a firebrand.
00:13:03
Speaker 2: She was and she is, yes, but she did say in that same podcast that Americans need to have real conversations about race in this country. She's a leader, she's an elected official, so I think she's probably aware that anyway. I just think these types of conversations, Is this the direction that she's hoping it goes in? I guess that's why I asked what her goal was? What did she want to accomplish? Did she want to down did she want downloads? Did she want reaction? Did she want headlines? Or did she actually want to try and have real conversations.
00:13:33
Speaker 1: She might have been having it. I'm saying she might have wanted to get something off her chest.
00:13:38
Speaker 4: She's upset. This is emotional.
00:13:40
Speaker 1: We've been emotional about this case for all sides, and can understand a.
00:13:44
Speaker 4: Whole bunch of stuff.
00:13:45
Speaker 1: But Roe, do you talk about her in the conversation she did, in my opinion, really did help move the conversation for with something else she said today, and of all people, she said it to TMZ stay here.
00:14:01
Speaker 2: And hey there everybody, and welcome back to this episode of Amy and TJ. We're talking about Texas Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett. She has said a few things, a lot of things actually got her podcasts that are making quite a few headlines regarding black teenager Carmelo Anthony, who was just convicted yesterday a first degree murder is going to spend thirty five years or at least was sentenced to thirty five years behind bars, And she made some comments that have certainly made some waves and created some pretty ugly headlines. What do you think about the inference? Look, she said, Look, if I were pinned down, if I had a three hundred pound man on me, you know, it wouldn't just I wouldn't just need my fists. But the suggestion is, and all the headlines are saying that basically Congresswoman Crockett said she might have stabbed him to death. Do you think that's a fair jump. No, people are taking that liberty and treating that headline.
00:15:03
Speaker 4: I think that's a little soovar.
00:15:04
Speaker 1: She that's a little souvar And I know they're just trying to make the headline, but I think that's too far. But what she said is what she said, and the suggestion being no, not even suggestions. She said, if I am under that type of threat, then it is okay for me to use a weapon.
00:15:24
Speaker 2: The problem is Anthony. It's from what we heard from court and from what we the jury certainly decided Carmelo Anthony was not under that kind of threat.
00:15:32
Speaker 4: Oh no, no, no suggestion.
00:15:34
Speaker 2: Part of the other issue. If people don't know the trial that well, they hear her say that, all of a sudden, they think, oh my god, we've got a George Floyd incident here going on. Except it wasn't a police officer. It was another fellow, seventeen year old, and the reverse happened. He died.
00:15:48
Speaker 1: Oh no, So that part no. But again, in the greater context of this conversation, any suggestion in this case, and I know they tried to make it in court as well, but from every witness account, that just wasn't the case. But that was the other clip that got everybody going. But Robes the one that is worth listening to. The one that is worth a conversation is Who's caught in the Halls of Congress by TMZ that was asking her questions and this is what she said, and please please listen closely because she does make great points that I do believe, we do believe, or part of the race conversation that should be taking place.
00:16:29
Speaker 4: Take a listen.
00:16:29
Speaker 3: Thirty five years for a kid who had decided to go under a tent that was not his team's tent as it was raining, and simply didn't want to be put out in the rain by some random kid that he didn't know who was larger than him. Listen, a lot of people don't know what it is to live as a black person in this country. But just like you can give the benefit of the doubt to so many police officers when they go out and they shoot some black unarmed person even though they are trained, the fact that there was little to no mercy seeing or humanity scene. When this black boy say that I was scared.
00:17:06
Speaker 4: She got me there.
00:17:07
Speaker 1: She's right, she's right, she made a very good point, and maybe a lot of people don't think she's the right messenger, but that message has got to come through somewhere robes and that is why it's so upsetting that it was not a black juror at all.
00:17:25
Speaker 2: Yes, and you and I had this conversation about that same exact notion that if you don't have a black person on the jury, there's no one who could even imagine what it might have felt like at any point for Carmelo Anthony, and that perspective could have been helpful when the jury was deliberating. And unfortunately, when you talk about Jasmine Crockett being the messenger of that, if she had just kept that tone and I don't want to obviously it's her podcast, and you mentioned she had her people, and these are people she felt comfortable with having a very specific type of conversation, but how she spoke to TMC that message, that point is valid, but it gets lost. It gets lost because she said the other things that are so incendiary that upset people so much that when she actually has something valuable that could have been thought provoking or at least maybe open someone's heart or mind in a different way, it gets erased when you make other comments that become more headline grabbing.
00:18:24
Speaker 4: That's so it's difficult.
00:18:28
Speaker 1: I know, It's difficult to put yourself in somebody else's position and to understand somebody else's fear in those moments. But there are people who can relate being surrounded by someone outside of your race and being absolutely intimidated by that. Where he is, what the schools were, the fact that he's in Texas, incidents that have happened in Texas over the years, Ropes, there are things and reasons, and there are places in the South. I'm still scared to go at certain hours, Robes. I've been places with you. I have been to what was supposed to be an enjoyable concert atmosphere, and I told you, I am flat out fearful of one little thing going wrong, and I could get killed in here because I'm surrounded by nobody that looks like me. That is real to where you were, Like, what in God's name are you talking about? And you look around and go oh yeah, oh, yeah, oh, But it was a comfortable atmosphere for you. That is a real world example, Robes. If we could be sitting in the same place, surrounded by the same people and experience something different. I'm not excusing Carmelo Anthony at all for how he reacted. He should not have done what he did, but there is a fear that he might have had that only a black person and on that jury could have been able to explain to the others.
00:20:04
Speaker 2: And that makes sense for anyone to imagine you being the only person of one race and surrounded by a race that historically has had all the power, and to know that history in that moment. Like you said, it doesn't excuse these choices, and it doesn't mean he shouldn't have been punished and found guilty in all of the above. But I just wish the conversation could be that conversation instead of the one we're having now because of what Congressman Crockett said on her podcast. That's the frustrating thing for me, because there is such an opportunity to have this conversation about why it is important to have a jury of your peers truly in these moments, because there are perspectives that if we really are honest with ourselves, we can't imagine. Again, it doesn't maybe necessarily change guilt or innocence, but it might. It might change the sentencing. It might change the difference between first to be murder and manslaughter. The difference between thirty five years and fifteen years. It absolutely could have probably almost certainly would have had an impact on the outcome. Even if it was just slight, it still would have been a perspective that what it should have been welcomed In a conversation, I.
00:21:21
Speaker 1: Thought that was a perfect comparison to make because we've seen plenty of cases of police officers, yeah, seemingly guilty as hell based on what sometimes even we see on video, that often get acquitted, and oftentimes the reason of the logic they use robes is that this officer has the right to a reasonable fear of his life and he can respond with deadly force. We give the cop the benefit of the doubt. It's hard to give a black kid a benefit of the doubt that he was that scared a being surrounded by white people.
00:22:00
Speaker 2: I will tell you the first time I have ever well, I've had the experience with a girlfriend, just a friend of mine, walking into an all white establishment and kind of being a little taken about, like, oh wow, wait, you're concern She's like, everyone's staring at us. I'm like they are. We were in the Deep South, and all of a sudden I looked around and I for the first time of my life, I saw something from a different perspective. And then with you the concert, specifically you're talking about it is at fifty At the thing, I was fifty two. At fifty two years old, I was like, holy hell, I've never seen it through this lens before ever, And now I am because I'm with someone I love, and I can see things in a way that I couldn't have before. And look, if we could all have more of those experiences, we might be a little less judgmental. We would we all might be a little less quick to pick sides and just maybe just for one second, imagine walking in another person's shoes.
00:22:55
Speaker 1: You just hit it. We're not having conversations. We're having fights.
00:23:00
Speaker 4: That's what we do here.
00:23:00
Speaker 1: We're fighting about something. We're not having a conversation about it. And this once again same thing. So folks of you talk about it, please be open minded and open hearted to this conversation, which I do think. Jas mcrogory was absolutely right. It's worth having and worth talking about. And she did make a good point about seeing it from Carmelo's perspective or people being in his shoes, and she made a good it was worth talking about. But unfortunately rooms here we go again. We just what we do every time something happens. We come out of our corners, we go to the middle of the ring, we fight it out, then we take a break go back into our respective corners. That's how we have conversations in this country.
00:23:41
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, you are correct, but look, I do think it can open a conversation where you can actually have understanding and listening happening. Yeah, I mean maybe we just have to keep it on the micro level and hope, slowly but surely things do expand. And you know, you have your own personal experience and you lead by example, You lead by how you speak to one another and how you treat each other. So it's an interesting conversation that should be to happening more often with more people. And it's all about exposing yourself to other points of view. So we hope this helps. We hope you had at least a takeaway from this conversation. We always appreciate you listening to us. Everyone. I'm Amy Robach alongside TJ. Holmes. We'll talk to you soon.