Aug. 4, 2026
Two Unprecedented Cyclospora Deaths Reported, As Case Numbers Continue To Rise
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RSS Feed We are now learning about the country's first recorded deaths linked to the growing cyclospora outbreak. Both occurred in Michigan, and officials say both victims had significant underlying health conditions that were impacted by the parasite and dehydration. Still, with confusing numbers that may be as high as 22 thousand, and Michigan alone reporting more than 11 thousand cases, there is growing concern about how to keep ourselves and our families safe.
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00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hey, the folks, it is Tuesday, August fourth, and an illness that we have been told for weeks and even months now is not usually fatal. It's just claimed to lives. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ Worlds. We said this set from the beginning, right, if you just get enough of these cases, they keep going up. Eventually we're going to get to this point. And here we are. The cyclospora outbreak is now a deadly one, and that was.
00:00:31
Speaker 2: Not what anyone had been anticipating or even warning of, at least in this case. And these are the first two the only I say only deaths. But when you look at the number of people who have been affected and infected with this parasite, perhaps it shouldn't be too shocking, but it is still alarming to hear. Oh my god, these are the first two deaths known to be caused by psych spora.
00:01:00
Speaker 1: And it's something they keep uh and it is true, Robes. This is well, they don't even say usually non fatal. It's not considered fatal because they don't. You can't even find a mortality rate necessarily because they just don't keep up. There aren't cyclospora deaths. But here we are robes. The numbers are all over the place in terms of the cases, and we'll get into that, but it was important to get on ropes because people see the headlines now that were initially I mean, frankly, you can say a lot of people having fun with it, this idea of explosive diarrhea and tackle bell put all this together, ropes. Your dad used this line, he said, was it you're you won't You might feel like you want to die, but you're not going to correct which one.
00:01:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's something to that effect, basically, like you may want to die or you feel like you're gonna die, but you're probably not gonna.
00:01:45
Speaker 1: Yes, And that's the truth. And that's the case, and it has been the case overwhelmingly in all of these cases. We've seen thousands and thousands now the first two deaths, so we want to hop on and give them and put them in context, at least robes, because this will alarm people that wait a minute, I thought it was this, and you're telling me this thing could kill me now, so you want to put it in context. And we do need to start robes first of all, with where these two deaths are being recorded.
00:02:09
Speaker 2: In the state of Michigan where the I mean clearly it's the EPPI center of this outbreak where we have, yes, an alarming seven figure number of cases coming out of that state, and those numbers continue to increase. And look, it is a little confusing because it does take it can take up to two weeks for symptoms to occur, so we don't know if we're past the worst of it, if we have a lull in it. It's tough to know, just given how far apart when you eat something that's contaminated with cyclist bora too, when you actually feel like you want to die and.
00:02:47
Speaker 1: Then robes, then the reporting there's a lag as well, So it's I don't robes. I'm not seeing anything that was a day or two last week where they thought they had peaked. I haven't seen anything consistently saying that they're going down now under control now, I haven't seen it.
00:03:03
Speaker 3: I haven't seen that either yet.
00:03:05
Speaker 2: And in fact, the the alarming part, yes, alongside getting news that two people have died, just that they don't necessarily know this source in the majority of these cases. So yes, every time we and any of us are going to the grocery store or buying food or looking to see what we can eat. We want to pick the healthy option for our family, and oftentimes that is fresh produce. But right now, thinking about well, hell, they can't figure out where this parasite is coming from. We might know one source, but that only explains a fraction of the cases that have been reported.
00:03:43
Speaker 1: One source and the source. We keep talking about Taylor Farms and their Mexican plant, but Robes, they came back and they confirmed that they haven't They don't have a positive lab test from that farm. Now there are other reasons and they can put together and have a great degree of confidence that this is where it came from by tracing barrobes. That's still pretty stunning to think there has not been a definitive positive lab test to confirm any piece of food at any plant anywhere it's responsible.
00:04:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look, we've been eating some romaine lettuce. I've been taking great care in cleaning it. I saw Annalise had bought some raspberries and I have eaten them because I know they're on the.
00:04:28
Speaker 3: List of possible cyclosporas sources. So I washed the heck out of those. But as I'm eating them. I'm concerned.
00:04:36
Speaker 2: I'm worried about what I'm eating, but I also know that's the food that's.
00:04:39
Speaker 1: Good for me as you're eating them. I'm concerned too, sweetheart.
00:04:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't really do berries.
00:04:47
Speaker 1: No, I'm concerned. I don't want anybody in this house since.
00:04:49
Speaker 2: Cilantrobes basil, like, we have been eating some things that are on the potential list.
00:04:54
Speaker 1: And they do tell you just wash the hell out of anything you got right now, wash it really well, wash it better than you normally would cook the stuff if you can. But roges, that is the best guidance right now because they don't exactly know. You talk about slantro and parsley ands, what snow peas?
00:05:12
Speaker 2: Is it?
00:05:12
Speaker 3: Prasberries, basil?
00:05:14
Speaker 1: All that stuff potentially is where we greens.
00:05:17
Speaker 2: How about that leafy greens. That's a broad category and it's what we eat pretty much at every single meal.
00:05:24
Speaker 1: We do we actually do, so at this point the guidance is be aware and to wash. They claim rooms at all the recalled lettuce that they believe is from Taylor Farms, and then Mexican plant is off the market. At this point, Taco Bell changed its menu and change things immediately, so they think the danger is off the shelves and not in restaurants right now. But they don't know.
00:05:50
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, how can they even think that? They know they've removed a potentially known source, but there is still potentially a lot of other sources, or at least one other source.
00:06:01
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we haven't even mentioned. We'll mention in a second there is another cyclo spora outbreak that they're investigating right now. By the way, folks, there is a second one separate from the one we're talking about. We'll explain that in a secon. But Michigan, they've been giving update. They've been good on it and been on top of it. They give these updates every day of the week. And their latest update we don't actually have one as of this recording for this Monday, but the one they put out yesterday Robes was the one that confirmed that, in fact, we have seen two deaths.
00:06:27
Speaker 2: Now, that's right, so they put this announcement out. Two deaths have been identified as part of the cyclosporus outbreak affecting Michigan. According to medical records, both individuals had significant underlying health conditions that may have been impacted by cyclosporus and dehydration. The two Michigan cases became ill prior to the voluntary recall of iceberg led us announced by the US Food and Drug Administration on July seventeenth. And then they went on to say that cyclist forus is generally not a life threatening illness. Death resulting from cyclist for us is uncommon in the United States. And I told you in the New York Times they had a microbiologist saying this is unprecedented, a microbiologist who worked on outbreaks at the FDA from ninety seven to twenty eleven, so that he was not aware of any other instance in the United States where the CDC reported deaths linked to cyclist forus. That is significant. I haven't seen anywhere else anyone coming out with that strong of a language, but that stood out to me for sure.
00:07:37
Speaker 1: Well it stood out because I've been scouring the internet and health departments around the world trying to find some count of cyclospora deaths on an annual basis. They don't keep up ro because they don't exist, have it, because we don't have We talked about Michigan. Here robes with sitting at eleven thousand plus cases. They get forty or fifty on average. So we're trying to put this in some kind of context of just how a phenomenal of a year and an outbreak that we're going through right now. If we were dealing with a more serious or life threatening illness, this would be in this Folks would be calling for people to be hauled in to jail.
00:08:19
Speaker 3: You know, we'd be in a tail spin right now.
00:08:21
Speaker 2: We'd be in a full state of panic if these numbers existed for any other illness that had a higher fatality rate.
00:08:28
Speaker 3: But I'm curious we didn't get to know.
00:08:30
Speaker 2: We haven't learned anything about these two deaths other than to be told that they had significant underlying health conditions. We don't know the age, we don't know the gender, We don't know anything. The only thing we can deduce is that when you've got when they say dehydration, and we obviously know that cyclospora causes explosive or extreme diarrhea, we know that that can be dangerous.
00:08:53
Speaker 3: Just as a parent, you know this. As a child, your main risk is dehydration. So yes, if you have a vulnerable group of folks.
00:08:59
Speaker 2: Like infants, older adults, anyone who's pregnant, anyone who has a weakened immune system who might be more susceptible to dehydration.
00:09:07
Speaker 3: But I feel like in this case, especially.
00:09:09
Speaker 2: Just because there's such a big level of fear and the unknown, I feel like it would just be so helpful. I understand they want to protect the privacy of patients and folks, but just to give us a little bit more information about who died would be appreciated.
00:09:23
Speaker 1: Maybe they're getting the clearances to do such a thing, because you're right, and they get that, I'm sure as well, but they have to give maybe the famili's permission or something else. But that would be helpful to understand, to.
00:09:34
Speaker 3: Know I would like to know what.
00:09:36
Speaker 2: Was going on with them very much, like to know what the underlying conditions were and just the ages and just I would like to know that specific so I could just feel better about my choices. Our choices is a family, what we're eating, what we're providing that's scary.
00:09:52
Speaker 1: We might get those. Hopefully we get those answers, so we just remember that from COVID. I think a lot of people are familiar when we looked at who was dying, who was dying early on, and who was the concern early on were folks who were older and folks who were very young at the time. That was something else what happened around COVID.
00:10:08
Speaker 3: That was immunocompromise too as well.
00:10:11
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm not gonna be able coming it right now. I just had a moment. Wasn't there something about how young people were better at combating COVID and they wanted to keep them in school? Actually that was something.
00:10:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, the healthy immune system that yes, they could pop. They just had the ability to fight it off. They had better natural immunity than older folks. I mean, look, all of the headlines out of COVID initially were older folks, senior citizen homes, senior care facilities. That was all the nursing homes. That was the big concern because that was the most vulnerable population.
00:10:42
Speaker 1: What was the thing about healthy individuals? Sometimes you have such a good immune system that it over compensates it. Does that sound familiarly? Why?
00:10:49
Speaker 3: What that you're referring to?
00:10:51
Speaker 2: From what I recalled the Great influenza at the beginning the beginning of the century that killed so many people around the world. It eventually started to as as certain viruses start to what's the word not morph, but they mutate, thank you, they will eventually. The real concern is when it starts to hit the healthy population and your own immune system is so robust that it overreacts to a virus and it ends up killing the host. And that's when you have a big concern when you start having influenza or viruses kill your strongest and healthiest, and that has happened historically. It doesn't happen often, but when it does, that's a great concern.
00:11:33
Speaker 1: So that came to mind as you to your point, we need to know who these folks were exactly and what was going on with them. That would be very useful, very helpful information. And we talked about Michigan being the epicenter from the very beginning. Their case counts still going out there officially sitting in eleven and thirty four. We don't have the out update, like I said, from today yet, but that was the latest and they have about two hundred hospitalizations there the messed up part ropes. We get these numbers kind of coming out of Michigan. Michigan has eleven thousand cases. The CDC, which is keeping an eye on things nationally, right, is barely reporting about half of that.
00:12:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's just that's for the entire country. So obviously those numbers are wildly off. And again to point out, anyone who's been listening to us will say it again, whatever the numbers are, whatever the official numbers are, even from these state reports, go ahead and double that because most people, or at least a majority or a certain large chunk of these folks are not necessarily going to their doctors and being tested and having a confirmed illness diagnosed. They just take pepto bismol and suck it up at home. So that is the truth. These numbers are much greater than we're actually seeing.
00:12:43
Speaker 1: So yes, when you see that, it's going to be confusing. When you see the CDC telling you they only have sixty seven hundred confirmed cases and you go, wait a minute, Michigan's got eleven thousand. That's why the states do their reporting. Then they have to report it to the CDC that has to check it all out, and then they post it to their web. So the CDC is weeks.
00:13:00
Speaker 2: Which most people will point to that they're wildly understaffed on top of it all, so it's adding to the very confusing dissemination of actual numbers in terms of what we're dealing with and the.
00:13:13
Speaker 3: Scope of it.
00:13:13
Speaker 2: But you looked at the scope of it, and this is significant, not to like, not to underplay what's happening because we've only had two deaths. It's significant that two people have died. But these numbers are astronomical.
00:13:27
Speaker 1: There, and they believe that there are at least twenty two thousand confirmed and suspected cases in the country. Like you say, like your dad says, like microbiologists say, double or triple that, and Robes this, we're knocking on the door of one of the largest food borne illness outbreaks. This is going to rank up there if we keep going along this pattern. But like I mentioned, it's not the only one out there. The FDA officially lists all the outbreaks they're keeping an eye on from all kinds of illnesses. And there is a second one that was reported on July twenty second. It's up to ninety three cases. Now don't exactly know where it is. Robes they didn't specify, but they categorize it as an ongoing event and it says product linked to illnesses quote not yet identified.
00:14:16
Speaker 3: And maybe never will be. That's the thing about cyclospora.
00:14:19
Speaker 2: They don't always figure out what the source was, and that is what is so unnervouing.
00:14:27
Speaker 1: We always I mean, we're washing letters with Paul Molov in this mother right now. Nobody knows what to do. The worst states, though we talked about Michigan, Ohio, Robes is really really ticking up. They got four thousand plus cases in Ohio right now here in New York we're still under a thousand cases officially. Some of these are a few days behind in reporting. Seven hundred and fifty three cases in New York now there's seven hundred so in North Carolina and Illinois has five hundred cases as well. But Robes, all this is behind, and where's the reporting and what are the updates? And who ate something a couple of weeks ago that just is about to get sick tomorrow. And we're up to.
00:15:06
Speaker 3: Forty five states right now? Correct? Who are reporting an uptick? Let's make it fifty?
00:15:10
Speaker 1: Why do we keep doing this?
00:15:12
Speaker 2: Maybe Alaska and Hawaii have survived just because of their logistics.
00:15:15
Speaker 3: I don't know the truth.
00:15:17
Speaker 1: They tell us forty five states, but the CDC is still telling us it's confirmed in nine what that's the It's everywhere, folks, if you live in the US, if you see a piece of lettice, just assume it's a suspect. Just to assume it's a suspect. But this had us thinking. That's got us looking to the other outbreaks, other major food born outbreaks in the country. This one ain't even close to being one of the deadliest, but the numbers are trickling up robes and it could challenge as far as the number of sick. This could become one of the biggest outbreaks we have seen in US history.
00:16:03
Speaker 2: Welcome back everyone to Amy and TJ, where yes, we are getting word that there are now two people who have officially died from this latest outbreak of cyclospora, an outbreak we were told is not typically deadly, and we were struggling to find any other report officially linking anyone to dying from cyclospora. And so that in and of itself is significant, but also the numbers they are in terms of perspective, in terms of looking at other outbreaks in this country's history, this is going to go down in history.
00:16:41
Speaker 1: In romes. We see some of the numbers and I compare, and once I started looking, nineteen eighty five nineteen ninety four, there were two outbreaks. One was milk salmonella in milk ropes. I believe there was out of a plant in Illinois, but two hundred thousand people got sick d two hundred thousand and there were twelve deaths involved. Pot that in some kind of context we're not there, certainly not that type of deadly, but also salmonella robes.
00:17:07
Speaker 3: Which can be deadly. Absolutely that one.
00:17:09
Speaker 1: Has a different type of risk. So that when we be taking a different type of serious salmonella as well. In nineteen ninety four robes ice cream, two hundred and twenty four thousand people got sick.
00:17:18
Speaker 3: That's scary.
00:17:18
Speaker 2: And I'm looking at both of the nineteen eighty five nineteen ninety four, before the Internet, before social media, before folks were able to communicate in the way we can now, where we can get the information out quickly to a lot of people. No matter where you live, no matter how remote, you're going to hear the news, you're going to see it all over your phone, and you're going to know what to look out for. I have to think that has to help in terms of people avoiding certain foods, or at least learning what to do if you have or you want to consume fresh produce.
00:17:48
Speaker 1: Seeing the other that makes sense. My head went to looking at eighty five and ninety four, is that those numbers might have been doubled. We didn't have the same ability to commute to send information from Washington State down to Florida to informed, right, they couldn't communicate like that. I wonder how much went unreported ropes in these cases. So that's a very good point. We remember the Boors had lsteria outbreaking. I remember talking to your dad extensively about this. He wasn't he was.
00:18:17
Speaker 2: We did because and when you're talking salmonella and then this one was lysteria. Those are known bacteria that absolutely can lead to death and have led to death. So, yes, the Bores had listeria outbreak ten deaths in nineteen states, and that was horrific.
00:18:32
Speaker 1: I didn't put the number of sick in that. It wasn't that many, like it was like a thousand sick and then ten deaths. I think it might have been under one hundred sick.
00:18:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's the reason why you learn when you're pregnant, Do not eat lunch meat, do not eat anything that could potentially have listeria, which is a naturally born bacteria. So yeah, you learn when you're pregnant what U ken of can I eat because that can be deadly. Pregnant women and unborn children are at great risk for that of outbreak.
00:19:01
Speaker 1: I had another listeria outbreak in twenty eleven, thirty three dead and ten states. Has had to do with a company, Jensen Farms. These were contaminated cantalopes. Wow, of all things. That was a company also that produced peanut butter and peanut butter paste. Responds before salmonella outbreak in two thousand and eight two thousand and nine, seven hundred people got sick in forty six states and robes nine died in that one. I don't remember the Jack in the box E Coli outbreaking ninety three. Oh wow, I was.
00:19:27
Speaker 3: But I know this because I was.
00:19:29
Speaker 2: I'm the daughter of a microbiologist who is in charge of food safety and E Coli, listeria, and salmonella. I heard all about growing up because my dad was literally in charge of food safety at several different companies. So yes, he was dealing with a lot of these outbreaks. So this was this was dinner room topic of conversation. Like when we're sitting around the table at dinner, literally we would be talking about this kind of stuff.
00:19:54
Speaker 1: I'm laughing. I'm like, wow, what a childhood. And now I think every single time I'm around your day and we have a meal, we're talking about it.
00:20:02
Speaker 3: Yes, because when you got somebody, it's no surprise.
00:20:04
Speaker 2: My brother grew up to become a doctor trying to fix all the problems that.
00:20:09
Speaker 3: My dad was talking about around the dinner table.
00:20:12
Speaker 1: And you decided to go report about all.
00:20:14
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly. It's amazing what that led to.
00:20:17
Speaker 1: But that one was big. You remember that one. This had to do with undercooked patties robes e Coli. Seven hundred people got sick, four kids died in this one. Robes. There was another Listeria outbreaking eighty five fifty deaths. Half of those were attributed robe to wimp to fetuses.
00:20:34
Speaker 3: Yes, Lasteria asteria.
00:20:37
Speaker 2: My dad pound, I have chills. My dad pounded that in my head when I was pregnant. He was like, do not And I remember I was. I was actually at a funeral and I was starving and I was. We were in the middle of Appalachia in Kentucky. There was nowhere to get food and the only thing they had out were cold cuts, And my dad said, don't care how hungry you are, you are not going to have a bite of any of that. That's what it just is ingrained in me to avoid it at all costs, because yes, those types of stories and headlines and outbreaks should scare folks.
00:21:08
Speaker 1: That one was from unpasteurized cheese that came out of Mexico. Another outbreak Mexican cucumbers. This was salmonella in twenty fifteen, nine hundred people got sick. Six deaths were attributed to that one. Then you had another salmonella outbreak Foster Farms that was in twenty thirteen. Six hundred and thirty four people got sick in twenty nine stakes. And then Taco Bell had a salmonella outbreak in two thousand and six as well, which seventy one got sick. Now I would listed those with my purpose here that the big ones, the two salmonella ones, the ice cream and the milk, eighty five and ninety four, two hundred plus thousand people got sick. But ROAs when you start listing some of the worst food born illness outbreaks in the country. Yes, there were deaths attached to some of them, but seven hundred sick, seven hundred sick, nine hundred six, six hundred.
00:21:51
Speaker 3: Sick, we're talking about twenty two thousand.
00:21:53
Speaker 1: That, just to put it in some kind of context, this is no small thing, and I think it might be being treated the way that because we just haven't seen deaths after death after death. What do we see if this thing keeps going?
00:22:05
Speaker 2: Yes, I just think look at the very least, people should be aware. They should have the knowledge, the information, and to know that even though we haven't seen many deaths, if any, up until now, it's certainly worth noting that there have been to and this is something to definitely take seriously, to wash that produce, and to make choices that make you feel most comfortable with all of this very important information. It may be confusing, but the numbers don't lie. And with that everyone, we always appreciate you listening to us. I maybe Roebuck alongside TJ.
00:22:37
Speaker 3: Holmes. We'll talk soon.
Speaker 1: Hey, the folks, it is Tuesday, August fourth, and an illness that we have been told for weeks and even months now is not usually fatal. It's just claimed to lives. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ Worlds. We said this set from the beginning, right, if you just get enough of these cases, they keep going up. Eventually we're going to get to this point. And here we are. The cyclospora outbreak is now a deadly one, and that was.
00:00:31
Speaker 2: Not what anyone had been anticipating or even warning of, at least in this case. And these are the first two the only I say only deaths. But when you look at the number of people who have been affected and infected with this parasite, perhaps it shouldn't be too shocking, but it is still alarming to hear. Oh my god, these are the first two deaths known to be caused by psych spora.
00:01:00
Speaker 1: And it's something they keep uh and it is true, Robes. This is well, they don't even say usually non fatal. It's not considered fatal because they don't. You can't even find a mortality rate necessarily because they just don't keep up. There aren't cyclospora deaths. But here we are robes. The numbers are all over the place in terms of the cases, and we'll get into that, but it was important to get on ropes because people see the headlines now that were initially I mean, frankly, you can say a lot of people having fun with it, this idea of explosive diarrhea and tackle bell put all this together, ropes. Your dad used this line, he said, was it you're you won't You might feel like you want to die, but you're not going to correct which one.
00:01:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's something to that effect, basically, like you may want to die or you feel like you're gonna die, but you're probably not gonna.
00:01:45
Speaker 1: Yes, And that's the truth. And that's the case, and it has been the case overwhelmingly in all of these cases. We've seen thousands and thousands now the first two deaths, so we want to hop on and give them and put them in context, at least robes, because this will alarm people that wait a minute, I thought it was this, and you're telling me this thing could kill me now, so you want to put it in context. And we do need to start robes first of all, with where these two deaths are being recorded.
00:02:09
Speaker 2: In the state of Michigan where the I mean clearly it's the EPPI center of this outbreak where we have, yes, an alarming seven figure number of cases coming out of that state, and those numbers continue to increase. And look, it is a little confusing because it does take it can take up to two weeks for symptoms to occur, so we don't know if we're past the worst of it, if we have a lull in it. It's tough to know, just given how far apart when you eat something that's contaminated with cyclist bora too, when you actually feel like you want to die and.
00:02:47
Speaker 1: Then robes, then the reporting there's a lag as well, So it's I don't robes. I'm not seeing anything that was a day or two last week where they thought they had peaked. I haven't seen anything consistently saying that they're going down now under control now, I haven't seen it.
00:03:03
Speaker 3: I haven't seen that either yet.
00:03:05
Speaker 2: And in fact, the the alarming part, yes, alongside getting news that two people have died, just that they don't necessarily know this source in the majority of these cases. So yes, every time we and any of us are going to the grocery store or buying food or looking to see what we can eat. We want to pick the healthy option for our family, and oftentimes that is fresh produce. But right now, thinking about well, hell, they can't figure out where this parasite is coming from. We might know one source, but that only explains a fraction of the cases that have been reported.
00:03:43
Speaker 1: One source and the source. We keep talking about Taylor Farms and their Mexican plant, but Robes, they came back and they confirmed that they haven't They don't have a positive lab test from that farm. Now there are other reasons and they can put together and have a great degree of confidence that this is where it came from by tracing barrobes. That's still pretty stunning to think there has not been a definitive positive lab test to confirm any piece of food at any plant anywhere it's responsible.
00:04:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look, we've been eating some romaine lettuce. I've been taking great care in cleaning it. I saw Annalise had bought some raspberries and I have eaten them because I know they're on the.
00:04:28
Speaker 3: List of possible cyclosporas sources. So I washed the heck out of those. But as I'm eating them. I'm concerned.
00:04:36
Speaker 2: I'm worried about what I'm eating, but I also know that's the food that's.
00:04:39
Speaker 1: Good for me as you're eating them. I'm concerned too, sweetheart.
00:04:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't really do berries.
00:04:47
Speaker 1: No, I'm concerned. I don't want anybody in this house since.
00:04:49
Speaker 2: Cilantrobes basil, like, we have been eating some things that are on the potential list.
00:04:54
Speaker 1: And they do tell you just wash the hell out of anything you got right now, wash it really well, wash it better than you normally would cook the stuff if you can. But roges, that is the best guidance right now because they don't exactly know. You talk about slantro and parsley ands, what snow peas?
00:05:12
Speaker 2: Is it?
00:05:12
Speaker 3: Prasberries, basil?
00:05:14
Speaker 1: All that stuff potentially is where we greens.
00:05:17
Speaker 2: How about that leafy greens. That's a broad category and it's what we eat pretty much at every single meal.
00:05:24
Speaker 1: We do we actually do, so at this point the guidance is be aware and to wash. They claim rooms at all the recalled lettuce that they believe is from Taylor Farms, and then Mexican plant is off the market. At this point, Taco Bell changed its menu and change things immediately, so they think the danger is off the shelves and not in restaurants right now. But they don't know.
00:05:50
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, how can they even think that? They know they've removed a potentially known source, but there is still potentially a lot of other sources, or at least one other source.
00:06:01
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we haven't even mentioned. We'll mention in a second there is another cyclo spora outbreak that they're investigating right now. By the way, folks, there is a second one separate from the one we're talking about. We'll explain that in a secon. But Michigan, they've been giving update. They've been good on it and been on top of it. They give these updates every day of the week. And their latest update we don't actually have one as of this recording for this Monday, but the one they put out yesterday Robes was the one that confirmed that, in fact, we have seen two deaths.
00:06:27
Speaker 2: Now, that's right, so they put this announcement out. Two deaths have been identified as part of the cyclosporus outbreak affecting Michigan. According to medical records, both individuals had significant underlying health conditions that may have been impacted by cyclosporus and dehydration. The two Michigan cases became ill prior to the voluntary recall of iceberg led us announced by the US Food and Drug Administration on July seventeenth. And then they went on to say that cyclist forus is generally not a life threatening illness. Death resulting from cyclist for us is uncommon in the United States. And I told you in the New York Times they had a microbiologist saying this is unprecedented, a microbiologist who worked on outbreaks at the FDA from ninety seven to twenty eleven, so that he was not aware of any other instance in the United States where the CDC reported deaths linked to cyclist forus. That is significant. I haven't seen anywhere else anyone coming out with that strong of a language, but that stood out to me for sure.
00:07:37
Speaker 1: Well it stood out because I've been scouring the internet and health departments around the world trying to find some count of cyclospora deaths on an annual basis. They don't keep up ro because they don't exist, have it, because we don't have We talked about Michigan. Here robes with sitting at eleven thousand plus cases. They get forty or fifty on average. So we're trying to put this in some kind of context of just how a phenomenal of a year and an outbreak that we're going through right now. If we were dealing with a more serious or life threatening illness, this would be in this Folks would be calling for people to be hauled in to jail.
00:08:19
Speaker 3: You know, we'd be in a tail spin right now.
00:08:21
Speaker 2: We'd be in a full state of panic if these numbers existed for any other illness that had a higher fatality rate.
00:08:28
Speaker 3: But I'm curious we didn't get to know.
00:08:30
Speaker 2: We haven't learned anything about these two deaths other than to be told that they had significant underlying health conditions. We don't know the age, we don't know the gender, We don't know anything. The only thing we can deduce is that when you've got when they say dehydration, and we obviously know that cyclospora causes explosive or extreme diarrhea, we know that that can be dangerous.
00:08:53
Speaker 3: Just as a parent, you know this. As a child, your main risk is dehydration. So yes, if you have a vulnerable group of folks.
00:08:59
Speaker 2: Like infants, older adults, anyone who's pregnant, anyone who has a weakened immune system who might be more susceptible to dehydration.
00:09:07
Speaker 3: But I feel like in this case, especially.
00:09:09
Speaker 2: Just because there's such a big level of fear and the unknown, I feel like it would just be so helpful. I understand they want to protect the privacy of patients and folks, but just to give us a little bit more information about who died would be appreciated.
00:09:23
Speaker 1: Maybe they're getting the clearances to do such a thing, because you're right, and they get that, I'm sure as well, but they have to give maybe the famili's permission or something else. But that would be helpful to understand, to.
00:09:34
Speaker 3: Know I would like to know what.
00:09:36
Speaker 2: Was going on with them very much, like to know what the underlying conditions were and just the ages and just I would like to know that specific so I could just feel better about my choices. Our choices is a family, what we're eating, what we're providing that's scary.
00:09:52
Speaker 1: We might get those. Hopefully we get those answers, so we just remember that from COVID. I think a lot of people are familiar when we looked at who was dying, who was dying early on, and who was the concern early on were folks who were older and folks who were very young at the time. That was something else what happened around COVID.
00:10:08
Speaker 3: That was immunocompromise too as well.
00:10:11
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm not gonna be able coming it right now. I just had a moment. Wasn't there something about how young people were better at combating COVID and they wanted to keep them in school? Actually that was something.
00:10:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, the healthy immune system that yes, they could pop. They just had the ability to fight it off. They had better natural immunity than older folks. I mean, look, all of the headlines out of COVID initially were older folks, senior citizen homes, senior care facilities. That was all the nursing homes. That was the big concern because that was the most vulnerable population.
00:10:42
Speaker 1: What was the thing about healthy individuals? Sometimes you have such a good immune system that it over compensates it. Does that sound familiarly? Why?
00:10:49
Speaker 3: What that you're referring to?
00:10:51
Speaker 2: From what I recalled the Great influenza at the beginning the beginning of the century that killed so many people around the world. It eventually started to as as certain viruses start to what's the word not morph, but they mutate, thank you, they will eventually. The real concern is when it starts to hit the healthy population and your own immune system is so robust that it overreacts to a virus and it ends up killing the host. And that's when you have a big concern when you start having influenza or viruses kill your strongest and healthiest, and that has happened historically. It doesn't happen often, but when it does, that's a great concern.
00:11:33
Speaker 1: So that came to mind as you to your point, we need to know who these folks were exactly and what was going on with them. That would be very useful, very helpful information. And we talked about Michigan being the epicenter from the very beginning. Their case counts still going out there officially sitting in eleven and thirty four. We don't have the out update, like I said, from today yet, but that was the latest and they have about two hundred hospitalizations there the messed up part ropes. We get these numbers kind of coming out of Michigan. Michigan has eleven thousand cases. The CDC, which is keeping an eye on things nationally, right, is barely reporting about half of that.
00:12:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's just that's for the entire country. So obviously those numbers are wildly off. And again to point out, anyone who's been listening to us will say it again, whatever the numbers are, whatever the official numbers are, even from these state reports, go ahead and double that because most people, or at least a majority or a certain large chunk of these folks are not necessarily going to their doctors and being tested and having a confirmed illness diagnosed. They just take pepto bismol and suck it up at home. So that is the truth. These numbers are much greater than we're actually seeing.
00:12:43
Speaker 1: So yes, when you see that, it's going to be confusing. When you see the CDC telling you they only have sixty seven hundred confirmed cases and you go, wait a minute, Michigan's got eleven thousand. That's why the states do their reporting. Then they have to report it to the CDC that has to check it all out, and then they post it to their web. So the CDC is weeks.
00:13:00
Speaker 2: Which most people will point to that they're wildly understaffed on top of it all, so it's adding to the very confusing dissemination of actual numbers in terms of what we're dealing with and the.
00:13:13
Speaker 3: Scope of it.
00:13:13
Speaker 2: But you looked at the scope of it, and this is significant, not to like, not to underplay what's happening because we've only had two deaths. It's significant that two people have died. But these numbers are astronomical.
00:13:27
Speaker 1: There, and they believe that there are at least twenty two thousand confirmed and suspected cases in the country. Like you say, like your dad says, like microbiologists say, double or triple that, and Robes this, we're knocking on the door of one of the largest food borne illness outbreaks. This is going to rank up there if we keep going along this pattern. But like I mentioned, it's not the only one out there. The FDA officially lists all the outbreaks they're keeping an eye on from all kinds of illnesses. And there is a second one that was reported on July twenty second. It's up to ninety three cases. Now don't exactly know where it is. Robes they didn't specify, but they categorize it as an ongoing event and it says product linked to illnesses quote not yet identified.
00:14:16
Speaker 3: And maybe never will be. That's the thing about cyclospora.
00:14:19
Speaker 2: They don't always figure out what the source was, and that is what is so unnervouing.
00:14:27
Speaker 1: We always I mean, we're washing letters with Paul Molov in this mother right now. Nobody knows what to do. The worst states, though we talked about Michigan, Ohio, Robes is really really ticking up. They got four thousand plus cases in Ohio right now here in New York we're still under a thousand cases officially. Some of these are a few days behind in reporting. Seven hundred and fifty three cases in New York now there's seven hundred so in North Carolina and Illinois has five hundred cases as well. But Robes, all this is behind, and where's the reporting and what are the updates? And who ate something a couple of weeks ago that just is about to get sick tomorrow. And we're up to.
00:15:06
Speaker 3: Forty five states right now? Correct? Who are reporting an uptick? Let's make it fifty?
00:15:10
Speaker 1: Why do we keep doing this?
00:15:12
Speaker 2: Maybe Alaska and Hawaii have survived just because of their logistics.
00:15:15
Speaker 3: I don't know the truth.
00:15:17
Speaker 1: They tell us forty five states, but the CDC is still telling us it's confirmed in nine what that's the It's everywhere, folks, if you live in the US, if you see a piece of lettice, just assume it's a suspect. Just to assume it's a suspect. But this had us thinking. That's got us looking to the other outbreaks, other major food born outbreaks in the country. This one ain't even close to being one of the deadliest, but the numbers are trickling up robes and it could challenge as far as the number of sick. This could become one of the biggest outbreaks we have seen in US history.
00:16:03
Speaker 2: Welcome back everyone to Amy and TJ, where yes, we are getting word that there are now two people who have officially died from this latest outbreak of cyclospora, an outbreak we were told is not typically deadly, and we were struggling to find any other report officially linking anyone to dying from cyclospora. And so that in and of itself is significant, but also the numbers they are in terms of perspective, in terms of looking at other outbreaks in this country's history, this is going to go down in history.
00:16:41
Speaker 1: In romes. We see some of the numbers and I compare, and once I started looking, nineteen eighty five nineteen ninety four, there were two outbreaks. One was milk salmonella in milk ropes. I believe there was out of a plant in Illinois, but two hundred thousand people got sick d two hundred thousand and there were twelve deaths involved. Pot that in some kind of context we're not there, certainly not that type of deadly, but also salmonella robes.
00:17:07
Speaker 3: Which can be deadly. Absolutely that one.
00:17:09
Speaker 1: Has a different type of risk. So that when we be taking a different type of serious salmonella as well. In nineteen ninety four robes ice cream, two hundred and twenty four thousand people got sick.
00:17:18
Speaker 3: That's scary.
00:17:18
Speaker 2: And I'm looking at both of the nineteen eighty five nineteen ninety four, before the Internet, before social media, before folks were able to communicate in the way we can now, where we can get the information out quickly to a lot of people. No matter where you live, no matter how remote, you're going to hear the news, you're going to see it all over your phone, and you're going to know what to look out for. I have to think that has to help in terms of people avoiding certain foods, or at least learning what to do if you have or you want to consume fresh produce.
00:17:48
Speaker 1: Seeing the other that makes sense. My head went to looking at eighty five and ninety four, is that those numbers might have been doubled. We didn't have the same ability to commute to send information from Washington State down to Florida to informed, right, they couldn't communicate like that. I wonder how much went unreported ropes in these cases. So that's a very good point. We remember the Boors had lsteria outbreaking. I remember talking to your dad extensively about this. He wasn't he was.
00:18:17
Speaker 2: We did because and when you're talking salmonella and then this one was lysteria. Those are known bacteria that absolutely can lead to death and have led to death. So, yes, the Bores had listeria outbreak ten deaths in nineteen states, and that was horrific.
00:18:32
Speaker 1: I didn't put the number of sick in that. It wasn't that many, like it was like a thousand sick and then ten deaths. I think it might have been under one hundred sick.
00:18:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's the reason why you learn when you're pregnant, Do not eat lunch meat, do not eat anything that could potentially have listeria, which is a naturally born bacteria. So yeah, you learn when you're pregnant what U ken of can I eat because that can be deadly. Pregnant women and unborn children are at great risk for that of outbreak.
00:19:01
Speaker 1: I had another listeria outbreak in twenty eleven, thirty three dead and ten states. Has had to do with a company, Jensen Farms. These were contaminated cantalopes. Wow, of all things. That was a company also that produced peanut butter and peanut butter paste. Responds before salmonella outbreak in two thousand and eight two thousand and nine, seven hundred people got sick in forty six states and robes nine died in that one. I don't remember the Jack in the box E Coli outbreaking ninety three. Oh wow, I was.
00:19:27
Speaker 3: But I know this because I was.
00:19:29
Speaker 2: I'm the daughter of a microbiologist who is in charge of food safety and E Coli, listeria, and salmonella. I heard all about growing up because my dad was literally in charge of food safety at several different companies. So yes, he was dealing with a lot of these outbreaks. So this was this was dinner room topic of conversation. Like when we're sitting around the table at dinner, literally we would be talking about this kind of stuff.
00:19:54
Speaker 1: I'm laughing. I'm like, wow, what a childhood. And now I think every single time I'm around your day and we have a meal, we're talking about it.
00:20:02
Speaker 3: Yes, because when you got somebody, it's no surprise.
00:20:04
Speaker 2: My brother grew up to become a doctor trying to fix all the problems that.
00:20:09
Speaker 3: My dad was talking about around the dinner table.
00:20:12
Speaker 1: And you decided to go report about all.
00:20:14
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly. It's amazing what that led to.
00:20:17
Speaker 1: But that one was big. You remember that one. This had to do with undercooked patties robes e Coli. Seven hundred people got sick, four kids died in this one. Robes. There was another Listeria outbreaking eighty five fifty deaths. Half of those were attributed robe to wimp to fetuses.
00:20:34
Speaker 3: Yes, Lasteria asteria.
00:20:37
Speaker 2: My dad pound, I have chills. My dad pounded that in my head when I was pregnant. He was like, do not And I remember I was. I was actually at a funeral and I was starving and I was. We were in the middle of Appalachia in Kentucky. There was nowhere to get food and the only thing they had out were cold cuts, And my dad said, don't care how hungry you are, you are not going to have a bite of any of that. That's what it just is ingrained in me to avoid it at all costs, because yes, those types of stories and headlines and outbreaks should scare folks.
00:21:08
Speaker 1: That one was from unpasteurized cheese that came out of Mexico. Another outbreak Mexican cucumbers. This was salmonella in twenty fifteen, nine hundred people got sick. Six deaths were attributed to that one. Then you had another salmonella outbreak Foster Farms that was in twenty thirteen. Six hundred and thirty four people got sick in twenty nine stakes. And then Taco Bell had a salmonella outbreak in two thousand and six as well, which seventy one got sick. Now I would listed those with my purpose here that the big ones, the two salmonella ones, the ice cream and the milk, eighty five and ninety four, two hundred plus thousand people got sick. But ROAs when you start listing some of the worst food born illness outbreaks in the country. Yes, there were deaths attached to some of them, but seven hundred sick, seven hundred sick, nine hundred six, six hundred.
00:21:51
Speaker 3: Sick, we're talking about twenty two thousand.
00:21:53
Speaker 1: That, just to put it in some kind of context, this is no small thing, and I think it might be being treated the way that because we just haven't seen deaths after death after death. What do we see if this thing keeps going?
00:22:05
Speaker 2: Yes, I just think look at the very least, people should be aware. They should have the knowledge, the information, and to know that even though we haven't seen many deaths, if any, up until now, it's certainly worth noting that there have been to and this is something to definitely take seriously, to wash that produce, and to make choices that make you feel most comfortable with all of this very important information. It may be confusing, but the numbers don't lie. And with that everyone, we always appreciate you listening to us. I maybe Roebuck alongside TJ.
00:22:37
Speaker 3: Holmes. We'll talk soon.