Nov. 22, 2025
2-Time Oscar Winner Now Homeless and “Singing For His Supper” Despite Being Cleared Of Wrongdoing
Apple Podcasts 
Spotify 
Castro 
RSS Feed Former Hollywood superstar and two time academy award winning actor, Kevin Spacey is apparently now a nightclub singer in Cyprus. In a fascinating interview, Spacey talks about his dramatic fall from fame amid the #metoo movement, why he thinks it happened and why he believes his redemption will happen.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
00:00:02
Speaker 1: He is living out of suitcases, lost his home to foreclosure in Baltimore, and yet he's a two time Oscar winner, and he is speaking out for one of the very first times since he lost everything to the Me Too movement. We are talking about actor Kevin Spacey, and man, did he have some pretty remarkable things to say TJ. This has been a seven year saga for him right now, and to go from being where he was in Hollywood to being a lounge singer in Cyprus. What an incredible fall from grace, But what an incredible story to tell with so many lessons to learn.
00:00:49
Speaker 2: Not done yet. This story isn't done yet and lessons to be learned. He speaks, I guess in a way we haven't heard him speak in this extended interview that he did. We're getting into but you hear out lessons learned for him, that there are lessons for all of us to learn in this story about jumping to conclusions, about throwing people out, about not waiting to hear both sides, about not you know this is there are a lot of lessons in this but this is a this is a tough one to hear. And you know what I was impressed. He sounded better than I thought same he would, I'd said, wow, he sounds like he's yeah, you know what, he sounds pretty good.
00:01:29
Speaker 1: Yes, Kevin Spacey sat down with the Telegraph. And if you have not read this article, regardless of how you feel about him now as a person with the scandal that has certainly plagued his life in every way possible, but this is really one of those interesting interviews where you actually get a different perspective. And I would argue when you read this article, you might walk away feeling differently about Heaven Spacey.
00:02:01
Speaker 2: I mean this that we don't know anything about him. I don't realize I don't know anything about his personal life other than his scandal or his trials. I really don't. And so that, I guess is part of you start filling in blanks to where I guess that Robes I contributed to his undoing.
00:02:23
Speaker 1: Yes, and he speaks about that in this article, which is so fascinating. But I actually think it's really important to start this conversation with this fact. No criminal or civil court has ever found Kevin Spacey guilty or liable of any sexual crimes or misdeeds. I bet you a lot of people would be surprised to hear that, because he has been put in a category maybe not as awful as someone like Harvey Weinstein, but certainly in that genre of the Matt Lowers and the Charlie Roses and all of that. But the truth is he has actually had several days in court and he has come out on top every time.
00:03:07
Speaker 2: But the stain is there. It doesn't matter. Does it matter if you're acquitted? Do you He's walking around an innocent man in the eyes of the law. But I mean, what else do you want to do? Who else knows something more than that? And just the idea that you have been accused of something. And again, I guess Robes, it's different if you're accused of stealing money, it's versus accused of the things we're talking about when we talk about sexual assault, we talk about some any kind of a sexual crime. I guess he's going to be viewed differently.
00:03:39
Speaker 1: Yes, And so I actually I was taken aback by one of the first lines of this article. I actually wrote the quote down because it rang true for me, and it certainly it resonated with me. The cloud of scandal can blow up in a single day and take years to disperse, and that you and I have lived that, so many people have lived that in different iterations, and it just it spoke to me. Here's a man who was a two time Oscar winner. You remember him in American Beauty and the Usual Suspects. That movie was phenomenal, and I was obsessed with House of Cards, Frank Underwood playing the President.
00:04:20
Speaker 3: He was in the middle of the height of his career.
00:04:23
Speaker 1: Truly, twenty seventeen, he's playing Frank Underwood. Obviously, he's been in plenty of other movies. Seven La Confidential, The Social Network Captain Phillips.
00:04:34
Speaker 3: I looked it up.
00:04:34
Speaker 1: He has ninety seven acting credits and forty producing credits to.
00:04:38
Speaker 3: His name in IMBD.
00:04:39
Speaker 1: This is a serious actor who has been awarded the highest award you can possibly be given as an actor. And right now he's homeless and has lost everything.
00:04:55
Speaker 2: And when I started looking more into what he actually went through in terms of the legal his legal situation, there was a lot and this was over years. I couldn't imagine what that cost him to keep his freedom, right, that's what you have to do. You have to defend yourself. That was first and foremost, and he has no way. He is an actor. This is his job and somebody, I don't care what you're doing out there right now, if somebody told you you can't do that job anymore for.
00:05:25
Speaker 1: Anybody, the thing you do better than almost anyone else on the planet.
00:05:29
Speaker 2: Yes, and you were awarded, you were employee of the month every month and you you just you.
00:05:33
Speaker 3: That's devastating to.
00:05:37
Speaker 2: What happened to him. So I guess, yeah, it started making more sense why he would be homeless.
00:05:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, he actually speaks to So the reporter in this asked him specifically, you know, how are you doing, and he said, let's just say my financial situation is not great. And he specifically said the costs, the legal costs over these last seven years have been astronomical. I mean, if you think about it, he was at the top of his game, bringing in gobsmacks millions upon millions of dollars, and then you all of that goes out to pay to your point, to defend yourself to actually you're purchasing in a way, you're trying.
00:06:17
Speaker 3: To make sure you stay free. You don't want to be imprisoned.
00:06:20
Speaker 1: He was facing criminal and civil charges in multiple cases, so yeah, he said, I'm in hotels, I'm in airbnbs. I literally am living out of suitcases. I'm going where the work is, and apparently that's in Cyprus. He is actually putting on acts as a nightclub singer.
00:06:40
Speaker 2: I didn't know he did. You know that about him that I didn't.
00:06:43
Speaker 1: He said he started singing when he was eight. His mother put on Frank Sinatra and he used to sing in the shower. And I believe there were a couple of roles where he said he he dabbled and.
00:06:53
Speaker 3: Singing, But now he has gone full tilt.
00:06:56
Speaker 1: And he's telling stories while he's singing, playing the piano. So it's kind of a night with Kevin Spacey and people are heading Diciple to see.
00:07:06
Speaker 3: It was a packed house.
00:07:08
Speaker 1: I believe the reporters that he had two standing ovations, so it's kind of becoming a thing. But he said, this is a place where you don't have the scrutiny of the media the way you do in the UK or in America, And so he's living a certain way of life in Cyprus right now.
00:07:25
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't mind that necessarily. We know where he would like to be and what he'd liked to be doing. This is guy's a stellar actor, and his talents are being wasted obviously where he is. I don't know what you do, Robes to get that stain off, to get that thing off of you that somebody believes about you, that didn't follow your trial every day that didn't make as many headlines as a scandal and a retweet and comments, and everybody pounding at the time, does what do we do with folks who are exonerated? What do we do with folks?
00:08:09
Speaker 1: Well, you know this is heartbreaking to read this article, but yet also so enlightening. It's a constant reminder to me to not rush to judgment, to not believe everything you read, to not believe everything you even see, but to give space for the fact that you might not know everything, that you might not have all the answers. And I just know how much I appreciated and regarded him as an actor. And of course none of us would want to applaud or cheer on or watch somebody who was a convicted pedophile or somebody who had done true sexual harm to someone else, say, but this is somebody who has been put to the test and has been exonerated. And I actually wanted to go through what he has been through. So it was in twenty seventeen. Do you remember this act after Anthony Rapp said that Kevin Spacey made a sexual advance on him. That's how it was put in nineteen eighty six, So at that time, Kevin Spacey would have been twenty six and Anthony rap would have been fourteen. And once Anthony rap made these accusations, it was like it was in the middle. It was the height of the meta movement, so you didn't have to prove anything, just say somebody made an inappropriate sexual advance towards you in twenty seventeen and you were done.
00:09:34
Speaker 3: So he was fired from House of Cards and.
00:09:38
Speaker 1: He literally has not found work since he was Also, he had just shot All the Money in the World in twenty seventeen. They actually decided, once these allegations were made, to reshoot everything. They replaced him by Christopher Plummer. And at that point, you've been kicked off House of Cards, you've been replaced in a movie you already performed your ask how do you come back from that?
00:10:02
Speaker 2: Didn't Plumber end up getting an Oscar nomination for that role For some reason, I feel like I'm remembering that. But yeah, they had to. They brought him in. That movie was done, so.
00:10:14
Speaker 1: He's done, right. But guess what the jury sided with Spacey. It took them little more than one hour to decide that he did not sexually abuse rep. It didn't matter though, because once that case came out, then there were others to come out and accuse Spacey of what they said was improper behavior.
00:10:36
Speaker 3: But guess what. They took him to criminal.
00:10:39
Speaker 1: Court in London and in twenty twenty three the jury found Spacey not guilty of assaulting. It was four men while he was the artistic director of the old Vic Theater there in London. They said he made inappropriate sexual advances. All we can say is that a criminal court, a jury in London said he was not criminally found guilty. He was not guilty, and then here in the US, a civil court found him not liable. So then what do you do.
00:11:12
Speaker 2: Nobody wants to work with him because they're worried about what the public might say. The first person that puts him in a movie, somebody in the public, somebody is going to who didn't realize it's not going to do Take a moment to go Google and find out that he's been not guilty and not liable. They're not going to take that moment. What they're going to do is they go immediately jump on They just got to react with outrage, and they're going to say, we should boycott this movie, we should boycott this studio for putting him in. That's what they're afraid of.
00:11:42
Speaker 1: And so I think it's fascinating everybody wants to write somebody off who is one of the most talented actors on the planet, who loved what he did and spent his life doing it since he was eight years old.
00:11:53
Speaker 3: He's been performing. This was his love.
00:11:55
Speaker 1: So that's all taken away from him by allegations and a movement where, by the way.
00:12:02
Speaker 3: I don't know.
00:12:03
Speaker 1: No one knows what's happened behind closed doors and what Kevin Spacey did or didn't do. I just all we can base this off of is evidence that was presented and a jury deciding in two separate occasions that there was nothing improper done by Kevin Spacey. I just like, I don't know, you think about going through your life and flirting with someone, could someone take that the wrong way? Who knows he admitted he said I have been too handsy. He did say that, and he said, and touching someone sexually in a way that I.
00:12:35
Speaker 3: Didn't know at the time they didn't want.
00:12:37
Speaker 1: So he said, yes, maybe I was touchy, maybe I was flirty, but at the time I didn't know they weren't reciprocating or they didn't want me to.
00:12:47
Speaker 3: So he has said.
00:12:48
Speaker 1: That, but no one, no criminal court, no civil court, has found him guilty of doing something inappropriate.
00:12:56
Speaker 2: But can you ever get past that to be embraced? Can you? Can you ever get away from that thing? You remember that awful allegation against jay Z and that went away, But I mean still I think that was such an outrage, and I guess they were able to prove for whatever reason, that was brought to a higher level where we.
00:13:16
Speaker 3: Think they were actually approved.
00:13:18
Speaker 1: He wasn't where she said he was or what he where he would have had to been.
00:13:22
Speaker 3: To do what she said he did.
00:13:24
Speaker 2: That's another it's just but still allegations. You just so, it's one thing, Fine, he's found not guilty, but it will The thing is, who in Hollywood was going to put their arm around you and have their picture taken with me?
00:13:37
Speaker 1: Is the thing he talks about this. So I told you that this was so fascinating why he thinks this happened? And you and I have had these conversations and this resonated with me. He he said this, He said, why was I such a good villain? Why did I fit so well into a narrative that was out there? And some of those were important questions for me to ask and to take accountable accountability where I made mistakes. Here's the interesting part. He said, I was secretive. No one knew about me. I protected my privacy. It was Fort Knox. People didn't really know me, so it was very easy for people to stick a lot of labels on me that were just not true. You and I have talked about our biggest mistake was not being transparent. In fact, if you try to keep your private life private.
00:14:24
Speaker 3: People will fill in the blanks.
00:14:26
Speaker 1: And if there is nothing to fill in, when someone says the first bad thing about you, that's what people will believe.
00:14:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you got nothing to compare it to. You've got nobody can fight for you or defend you or speak up for you because they don't know. Nobody can. We talked about a say fill in the blank that this was. And I talked about this with you plenty, and going through all we went through had a lot to do with me at times being labeled as something that a lot of people were comfortable with, viewing a black man dating a white woman to be And so you talk that you pointed out with this, you read this article about Spacey, you were screaming through the house. You are you are going to just not gonna believe this because it's this is going to resonate with you everything he.
00:15:23
Speaker 1: Said, Yeah, and it's fascinating. When we come back, we're going to talk about what Kevin Spacey said he wish he had done and man, did this hit us very close to home, and what he's hoping and what he believes will happen going forward. Continuing our conversation now about this fascinating article, we're finally hearing from two time Oscar winning actor Kevin Spacey, who is now in Cyprus putting on a lounge singing act, literally trying to pay the bills, as he says, Hey, I'm homeless, I have no career. I have lost everything from accusations, all of which I have been exonerated of criminally and civilly. He's been sued, he's been charged, and juries have all found him not guilty, not liable, and yet his life, his career have been taken from him. And he talked about how because he was so private. So before this I didn't realize this.
00:16:42
Speaker 3: Did you know if he was gay? Straight?
00:16:44
Speaker 1: He had never officially come out for these initial accusations one.
00:16:49
Speaker 2: Hundred, specifically remembering being shocked, like, wait, what, No, I had no idea.
00:16:54
Speaker 1: I had heard rumors, but he was never He was so private, and part of that reason was because he was gay. He did look he played Frank Underwood, the President of the United States, married to the character of Robin Wright. So yes, he played heterosexual leading men. A lot of actors will tell you, as a gay man privately, you might not want to advertise that you're gay if you're playing playing.
00:17:20
Speaker 3: Heterosexual leading men. So he kept it private.
00:17:24
Speaker 1: When these accusations came out, he actually had to admit he was gay for the first time. He was outed in a way, but also being labeled the worst of the worst as sexual predator. So this was so interesting, he said, Do I think the media was interested in not the truth but in creating a villain. Yes, I suppose when I look back, I wish I had spoken out sooner and allowed my voice to be heard more. I have recognized that I did certain things. I made certain decisions that I thought was protecting my work as an actor, but in fact it was also protecting the issues that I had about myself. That I was not kind to myself about his sexual preference, his sexual identity. That makes sense, and it makes the story even sadder to me.
00:18:18
Speaker 2: That is sad. He was holding on to something he was and it's the thing that cost him not being honest with everybody about who he was. But at the same time, what does he owe us? What does he owe any of us? He can live his life however the hell he chooses to do so, but he sounds like he gets it and he's been able to reflect. But that is a tough tough pill to swallow because we strike that balance all the time. How much do you let somebody into your life and then once you do a little bit, then they say, well, we have a right to all of it. What can you protect anymore? That's tough to hear.
00:19:01
Speaker 3: Man, it really was.
00:19:03
Speaker 1: It struck a chord with me, but it's so interesting. You actually went there with exactly what you said, because in the article he talks about how.
00:19:13
Speaker 3: He used to get annoyed, you know.
00:19:15
Speaker 1: He said, Yeah, people would constantly come up to you and constantly want a piece of you. It's like you owed people some of yourself. And he said he had a bad attitude about it. He said, I'll be honest, but he said that he was always impressed with it was Jack Lemon correct. He said that he was there with him and watching him handle people coming up to him, and he said, does that bother you? You must have been stopped so many times. He said, this is before I was famous. And he said, listen, it might be my sixty five to fifth time, but it's there first. And so he said he's now remembering that lesson from Jack Lemon, and he said the thing that used to bug him the most about Fai, about people wanting to come up to him wanting a piece of him. He reminds himself, Yeah, this may be the tenth time today somebody did this to me or the hunt, but.
00:20:09
Speaker 3: It's there first.
00:20:10
Speaker 1: And he realized that part of his success as an actor in connecting with people is understanding that part of fame that he kind of through a blind eye to and almost kind of was flippant about. But actually, the relationship he says he now has with Fame has completely changed, and now he's more grateful and just understanding that other people this is very exciting to them, and that's part of the relationship you need to have a healthy relationship you can have with fame. It was just he's saying it's something he's come around to after everything he's been to throw over these past seven years.
00:20:50
Speaker 2: I mean, I can't imagine. I just I that compare. It made me think of something that folks on Broadway talk about all the time, Right, how many shows a week do they do? Eight seven eight? Wait? Is that it? Yes? And you have to repeat that over and over again. And people have traveled thousands of miles for this one moment with you, and you have to treat it every moment like it is the opening night and biggest deal in the world. And yeah, that idea, I mean, just the I I get it that we dealt with nothing on the level of him. No, but you have to be grateful and you appreciate anybody who would take the time to scream out your name or bother you in public, or come over to you or anything else somebody cares enough to do. So it is there's something that comes with it.
00:21:37
Speaker 1: Yes, and there is a happy ending to all of this, just to see where he is, with where he is in his life and I love. He's like, I have to go like I did early in my career. I have to go where the work is, and right now, the works in Cyprus, and that's where I am. But he did say this, and this made me hugh. He said, my feeling is if Martin Scorse or Quentin Tarantino call his manager tomorrow, it'll be over. He's like, I just need one person to stand up and bring him back to life. He's like, I need one person. It has to be the right person. It has to be a big fish. But one person has to believe in me to say I'll give you another chance, and everyone will forget. And he said he believes it's going to happen. I hope it does for I do too, because he is talented, like beyond talented.
00:22:33
Speaker 2: Beyond that, I mean, doesn't he deserve to be able to work? And he's right, it just somebody needs to give the rest of Hollywood permission to work with this guy, and it does. It has to be a big fish.
00:22:49
Speaker 3: It's fascinating to think about it that way.
00:22:51
Speaker 1: But I wanted to end this on a really positive note because I think you and I again can absolutely understand where Kevin's face he is coming from. Despite everything he's been through and everything he's lost, he is literally living in and out of suitcases. And this is what he told this reporter. I am so much happier and more comfortable. I'm not putting a hat on and ducking out of buildings. I am walking with my head high, no glasses on my face, no hat, nothing to hide.
00:23:27
Speaker 2: Good for him, Good for him. Yeah, we'll see him back on screen. Don't know whether that first role, how big it's going to be, but I'll watch it.
00:23:39
Speaker 3: And it was good to hear from him. It really was love to him sounding good.
00:23:43
Speaker 2: He sounds good.
00:23:45
Speaker 1: And by the way, the reporter who sat through his show said it was amazing for standing ovations.
00:23:51
Speaker 3: He did a meet and greet afterwards.
00:23:52
Speaker 1: And people he he was being celebrated by this small crowd in Cyprus, And you know what, sometimes it's good to be a big fish in a small ocean, especially when you've been in a lot of other environments and you've seen what the cost can be. I'm happy to hear he's doing well, and with that everyone, we thank you for listening to us. We appreciate you as always. I'm Amy Roboc alongside TJ.
00:24:19
Speaker 3: Holmes. We will talk to you soon.
Speaker 1: He is living out of suitcases, lost his home to foreclosure in Baltimore, and yet he's a two time Oscar winner, and he is speaking out for one of the very first times since he lost everything to the Me Too movement. We are talking about actor Kevin Spacey, and man, did he have some pretty remarkable things to say TJ. This has been a seven year saga for him right now, and to go from being where he was in Hollywood to being a lounge singer in Cyprus. What an incredible fall from grace, But what an incredible story to tell with so many lessons to learn.
00:00:49
Speaker 2: Not done yet. This story isn't done yet and lessons to be learned. He speaks, I guess in a way we haven't heard him speak in this extended interview that he did. We're getting into but you hear out lessons learned for him, that there are lessons for all of us to learn in this story about jumping to conclusions, about throwing people out, about not waiting to hear both sides, about not you know this is there are a lot of lessons in this but this is a this is a tough one to hear. And you know what I was impressed. He sounded better than I thought same he would, I'd said, wow, he sounds like he's yeah, you know what, he sounds pretty good.
00:01:29
Speaker 1: Yes, Kevin Spacey sat down with the Telegraph. And if you have not read this article, regardless of how you feel about him now as a person with the scandal that has certainly plagued his life in every way possible, but this is really one of those interesting interviews where you actually get a different perspective. And I would argue when you read this article, you might walk away feeling differently about Heaven Spacey.
00:02:01
Speaker 2: I mean this that we don't know anything about him. I don't realize I don't know anything about his personal life other than his scandal or his trials. I really don't. And so that, I guess is part of you start filling in blanks to where I guess that Robes I contributed to his undoing.
00:02:23
Speaker 1: Yes, and he speaks about that in this article, which is so fascinating. But I actually think it's really important to start this conversation with this fact. No criminal or civil court has ever found Kevin Spacey guilty or liable of any sexual crimes or misdeeds. I bet you a lot of people would be surprised to hear that, because he has been put in a category maybe not as awful as someone like Harvey Weinstein, but certainly in that genre of the Matt Lowers and the Charlie Roses and all of that. But the truth is he has actually had several days in court and he has come out on top every time.
00:03:07
Speaker 2: But the stain is there. It doesn't matter. Does it matter if you're acquitted? Do you He's walking around an innocent man in the eyes of the law. But I mean, what else do you want to do? Who else knows something more than that? And just the idea that you have been accused of something. And again, I guess Robes, it's different if you're accused of stealing money, it's versus accused of the things we're talking about when we talk about sexual assault, we talk about some any kind of a sexual crime. I guess he's going to be viewed differently.
00:03:39
Speaker 1: Yes, And so I actually I was taken aback by one of the first lines of this article. I actually wrote the quote down because it rang true for me, and it certainly it resonated with me. The cloud of scandal can blow up in a single day and take years to disperse, and that you and I have lived that, so many people have lived that in different iterations, and it just it spoke to me. Here's a man who was a two time Oscar winner. You remember him in American Beauty and the Usual Suspects. That movie was phenomenal, and I was obsessed with House of Cards, Frank Underwood playing the President.
00:04:20
Speaker 3: He was in the middle of the height of his career.
00:04:23
Speaker 1: Truly, twenty seventeen, he's playing Frank Underwood. Obviously, he's been in plenty of other movies. Seven La Confidential, The Social Network Captain Phillips.
00:04:34
Speaker 3: I looked it up.
00:04:34
Speaker 1: He has ninety seven acting credits and forty producing credits to.
00:04:38
Speaker 3: His name in IMBD.
00:04:39
Speaker 1: This is a serious actor who has been awarded the highest award you can possibly be given as an actor. And right now he's homeless and has lost everything.
00:04:55
Speaker 2: And when I started looking more into what he actually went through in terms of the legal his legal situation, there was a lot and this was over years. I couldn't imagine what that cost him to keep his freedom, right, that's what you have to do. You have to defend yourself. That was first and foremost, and he has no way. He is an actor. This is his job and somebody, I don't care what you're doing out there right now, if somebody told you you can't do that job anymore for.
00:05:25
Speaker 1: Anybody, the thing you do better than almost anyone else on the planet.
00:05:29
Speaker 2: Yes, and you were awarded, you were employee of the month every month and you you just you.
00:05:33
Speaker 3: That's devastating to.
00:05:37
Speaker 2: What happened to him. So I guess, yeah, it started making more sense why he would be homeless.
00:05:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, he actually speaks to So the reporter in this asked him specifically, you know, how are you doing, and he said, let's just say my financial situation is not great. And he specifically said the costs, the legal costs over these last seven years have been astronomical. I mean, if you think about it, he was at the top of his game, bringing in gobsmacks millions upon millions of dollars, and then you all of that goes out to pay to your point, to defend yourself to actually you're purchasing in a way, you're trying.
00:06:17
Speaker 3: To make sure you stay free. You don't want to be imprisoned.
00:06:20
Speaker 1: He was facing criminal and civil charges in multiple cases, so yeah, he said, I'm in hotels, I'm in airbnbs. I literally am living out of suitcases. I'm going where the work is, and apparently that's in Cyprus. He is actually putting on acts as a nightclub singer.
00:06:40
Speaker 2: I didn't know he did. You know that about him that I didn't.
00:06:43
Speaker 1: He said he started singing when he was eight. His mother put on Frank Sinatra and he used to sing in the shower. And I believe there were a couple of roles where he said he he dabbled and.
00:06:53
Speaker 3: Singing, But now he has gone full tilt.
00:06:56
Speaker 1: And he's telling stories while he's singing, playing the piano. So it's kind of a night with Kevin Spacey and people are heading Diciple to see.
00:07:06
Speaker 3: It was a packed house.
00:07:08
Speaker 1: I believe the reporters that he had two standing ovations, so it's kind of becoming a thing. But he said, this is a place where you don't have the scrutiny of the media the way you do in the UK or in America, And so he's living a certain way of life in Cyprus right now.
00:07:25
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't mind that necessarily. We know where he would like to be and what he'd liked to be doing. This is guy's a stellar actor, and his talents are being wasted obviously where he is. I don't know what you do, Robes to get that stain off, to get that thing off of you that somebody believes about you, that didn't follow your trial every day that didn't make as many headlines as a scandal and a retweet and comments, and everybody pounding at the time, does what do we do with folks who are exonerated? What do we do with folks?
00:08:09
Speaker 1: Well, you know this is heartbreaking to read this article, but yet also so enlightening. It's a constant reminder to me to not rush to judgment, to not believe everything you read, to not believe everything you even see, but to give space for the fact that you might not know everything, that you might not have all the answers. And I just know how much I appreciated and regarded him as an actor. And of course none of us would want to applaud or cheer on or watch somebody who was a convicted pedophile or somebody who had done true sexual harm to someone else, say, but this is somebody who has been put to the test and has been exonerated. And I actually wanted to go through what he has been through. So it was in twenty seventeen. Do you remember this act after Anthony Rapp said that Kevin Spacey made a sexual advance on him. That's how it was put in nineteen eighty six, So at that time, Kevin Spacey would have been twenty six and Anthony rap would have been fourteen. And once Anthony rap made these accusations, it was like it was in the middle. It was the height of the meta movement, so you didn't have to prove anything, just say somebody made an inappropriate sexual advance towards you in twenty seventeen and you were done.
00:09:34
Speaker 3: So he was fired from House of Cards and.
00:09:38
Speaker 1: He literally has not found work since he was Also, he had just shot All the Money in the World in twenty seventeen. They actually decided, once these allegations were made, to reshoot everything. They replaced him by Christopher Plummer. And at that point, you've been kicked off House of Cards, you've been replaced in a movie you already performed your ask how do you come back from that?
00:10:02
Speaker 2: Didn't Plumber end up getting an Oscar nomination for that role For some reason, I feel like I'm remembering that. But yeah, they had to. They brought him in. That movie was done, so.
00:10:14
Speaker 1: He's done, right. But guess what the jury sided with Spacey. It took them little more than one hour to decide that he did not sexually abuse rep. It didn't matter though, because once that case came out, then there were others to come out and accuse Spacey of what they said was improper behavior.
00:10:36
Speaker 3: But guess what. They took him to criminal.
00:10:39
Speaker 1: Court in London and in twenty twenty three the jury found Spacey not guilty of assaulting. It was four men while he was the artistic director of the old Vic Theater there in London. They said he made inappropriate sexual advances. All we can say is that a criminal court, a jury in London said he was not criminally found guilty. He was not guilty, and then here in the US, a civil court found him not liable. So then what do you do.
00:11:12
Speaker 2: Nobody wants to work with him because they're worried about what the public might say. The first person that puts him in a movie, somebody in the public, somebody is going to who didn't realize it's not going to do Take a moment to go Google and find out that he's been not guilty and not liable. They're not going to take that moment. What they're going to do is they go immediately jump on They just got to react with outrage, and they're going to say, we should boycott this movie, we should boycott this studio for putting him in. That's what they're afraid of.
00:11:42
Speaker 1: And so I think it's fascinating everybody wants to write somebody off who is one of the most talented actors on the planet, who loved what he did and spent his life doing it since he was eight years old.
00:11:53
Speaker 3: He's been performing. This was his love.
00:11:55
Speaker 1: So that's all taken away from him by allegations and a movement where, by the way.
00:12:02
Speaker 3: I don't know.
00:12:03
Speaker 1: No one knows what's happened behind closed doors and what Kevin Spacey did or didn't do. I just all we can base this off of is evidence that was presented and a jury deciding in two separate occasions that there was nothing improper done by Kevin Spacey. I just like, I don't know, you think about going through your life and flirting with someone, could someone take that the wrong way? Who knows he admitted he said I have been too handsy. He did say that, and he said, and touching someone sexually in a way that I.
00:12:35
Speaker 3: Didn't know at the time they didn't want.
00:12:37
Speaker 1: So he said, yes, maybe I was touchy, maybe I was flirty, but at the time I didn't know they weren't reciprocating or they didn't want me to.
00:12:47
Speaker 3: So he has said.
00:12:48
Speaker 1: That, but no one, no criminal court, no civil court, has found him guilty of doing something inappropriate.
00:12:56
Speaker 2: But can you ever get past that to be embraced? Can you? Can you ever get away from that thing? You remember that awful allegation against jay Z and that went away, But I mean still I think that was such an outrage, and I guess they were able to prove for whatever reason, that was brought to a higher level where we.
00:13:16
Speaker 3: Think they were actually approved.
00:13:18
Speaker 1: He wasn't where she said he was or what he where he would have had to been.
00:13:22
Speaker 3: To do what she said he did.
00:13:24
Speaker 2: That's another it's just but still allegations. You just so, it's one thing, Fine, he's found not guilty, but it will The thing is, who in Hollywood was going to put their arm around you and have their picture taken with me?
00:13:37
Speaker 1: Is the thing he talks about this. So I told you that this was so fascinating why he thinks this happened? And you and I have had these conversations and this resonated with me. He he said this, He said, why was I such a good villain? Why did I fit so well into a narrative that was out there? And some of those were important questions for me to ask and to take accountable accountability where I made mistakes. Here's the interesting part. He said, I was secretive. No one knew about me. I protected my privacy. It was Fort Knox. People didn't really know me, so it was very easy for people to stick a lot of labels on me that were just not true. You and I have talked about our biggest mistake was not being transparent. In fact, if you try to keep your private life private.
00:14:24
Speaker 3: People will fill in the blanks.
00:14:26
Speaker 1: And if there is nothing to fill in, when someone says the first bad thing about you, that's what people will believe.
00:14:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you got nothing to compare it to. You've got nobody can fight for you or defend you or speak up for you because they don't know. Nobody can. We talked about a say fill in the blank that this was. And I talked about this with you plenty, and going through all we went through had a lot to do with me at times being labeled as something that a lot of people were comfortable with, viewing a black man dating a white woman to be And so you talk that you pointed out with this, you read this article about Spacey, you were screaming through the house. You are you are going to just not gonna believe this because it's this is going to resonate with you everything he.
00:15:23
Speaker 1: Said, Yeah, and it's fascinating. When we come back, we're going to talk about what Kevin Spacey said he wish he had done and man, did this hit us very close to home, and what he's hoping and what he believes will happen going forward. Continuing our conversation now about this fascinating article, we're finally hearing from two time Oscar winning actor Kevin Spacey, who is now in Cyprus putting on a lounge singing act, literally trying to pay the bills, as he says, Hey, I'm homeless, I have no career. I have lost everything from accusations, all of which I have been exonerated of criminally and civilly. He's been sued, he's been charged, and juries have all found him not guilty, not liable, and yet his life, his career have been taken from him. And he talked about how because he was so private. So before this I didn't realize this.
00:16:42
Speaker 3: Did you know if he was gay? Straight?
00:16:44
Speaker 1: He had never officially come out for these initial accusations one.
00:16:49
Speaker 2: Hundred, specifically remembering being shocked, like, wait, what, No, I had no idea.
00:16:54
Speaker 1: I had heard rumors, but he was never He was so private, and part of that reason was because he was gay. He did look he played Frank Underwood, the President of the United States, married to the character of Robin Wright. So yes, he played heterosexual leading men. A lot of actors will tell you, as a gay man privately, you might not want to advertise that you're gay if you're playing playing.
00:17:20
Speaker 3: Heterosexual leading men. So he kept it private.
00:17:24
Speaker 1: When these accusations came out, he actually had to admit he was gay for the first time. He was outed in a way, but also being labeled the worst of the worst as sexual predator. So this was so interesting, he said, Do I think the media was interested in not the truth but in creating a villain. Yes, I suppose when I look back, I wish I had spoken out sooner and allowed my voice to be heard more. I have recognized that I did certain things. I made certain decisions that I thought was protecting my work as an actor, but in fact it was also protecting the issues that I had about myself. That I was not kind to myself about his sexual preference, his sexual identity. That makes sense, and it makes the story even sadder to me.
00:18:18
Speaker 2: That is sad. He was holding on to something he was and it's the thing that cost him not being honest with everybody about who he was. But at the same time, what does he owe us? What does he owe any of us? He can live his life however the hell he chooses to do so, but he sounds like he gets it and he's been able to reflect. But that is a tough tough pill to swallow because we strike that balance all the time. How much do you let somebody into your life and then once you do a little bit, then they say, well, we have a right to all of it. What can you protect anymore? That's tough to hear.
00:19:01
Speaker 3: Man, it really was.
00:19:03
Speaker 1: It struck a chord with me, but it's so interesting. You actually went there with exactly what you said, because in the article he talks about how.
00:19:13
Speaker 3: He used to get annoyed, you know.
00:19:15
Speaker 1: He said, Yeah, people would constantly come up to you and constantly want a piece of you. It's like you owed people some of yourself. And he said he had a bad attitude about it. He said, I'll be honest, but he said that he was always impressed with it was Jack Lemon correct. He said that he was there with him and watching him handle people coming up to him, and he said, does that bother you? You must have been stopped so many times. He said, this is before I was famous. And he said, listen, it might be my sixty five to fifth time, but it's there first. And so he said he's now remembering that lesson from Jack Lemon, and he said the thing that used to bug him the most about Fai, about people wanting to come up to him wanting a piece of him. He reminds himself, Yeah, this may be the tenth time today somebody did this to me or the hunt, but.
00:20:09
Speaker 3: It's there first.
00:20:10
Speaker 1: And he realized that part of his success as an actor in connecting with people is understanding that part of fame that he kind of through a blind eye to and almost kind of was flippant about. But actually, the relationship he says he now has with Fame has completely changed, and now he's more grateful and just understanding that other people this is very exciting to them, and that's part of the relationship you need to have a healthy relationship you can have with fame. It was just he's saying it's something he's come around to after everything he's been to throw over these past seven years.
00:20:50
Speaker 2: I mean, I can't imagine. I just I that compare. It made me think of something that folks on Broadway talk about all the time, Right, how many shows a week do they do? Eight seven eight? Wait? Is that it? Yes? And you have to repeat that over and over again. And people have traveled thousands of miles for this one moment with you, and you have to treat it every moment like it is the opening night and biggest deal in the world. And yeah, that idea, I mean, just the I I get it that we dealt with nothing on the level of him. No, but you have to be grateful and you appreciate anybody who would take the time to scream out your name or bother you in public, or come over to you or anything else somebody cares enough to do. So it is there's something that comes with it.
00:21:37
Speaker 1: Yes, and there is a happy ending to all of this, just to see where he is, with where he is in his life and I love. He's like, I have to go like I did early in my career. I have to go where the work is, and right now, the works in Cyprus, and that's where I am. But he did say this, and this made me hugh. He said, my feeling is if Martin Scorse or Quentin Tarantino call his manager tomorrow, it'll be over. He's like, I just need one person to stand up and bring him back to life. He's like, I need one person. It has to be the right person. It has to be a big fish. But one person has to believe in me to say I'll give you another chance, and everyone will forget. And he said he believes it's going to happen. I hope it does for I do too, because he is talented, like beyond talented.
00:22:33
Speaker 2: Beyond that, I mean, doesn't he deserve to be able to work? And he's right, it just somebody needs to give the rest of Hollywood permission to work with this guy, and it does. It has to be a big fish.
00:22:49
Speaker 3: It's fascinating to think about it that way.
00:22:51
Speaker 1: But I wanted to end this on a really positive note because I think you and I again can absolutely understand where Kevin's face he is coming from. Despite everything he's been through and everything he's lost, he is literally living in and out of suitcases. And this is what he told this reporter. I am so much happier and more comfortable. I'm not putting a hat on and ducking out of buildings. I am walking with my head high, no glasses on my face, no hat, nothing to hide.
00:23:27
Speaker 2: Good for him, Good for him. Yeah, we'll see him back on screen. Don't know whether that first role, how big it's going to be, but I'll watch it.
00:23:39
Speaker 3: And it was good to hear from him. It really was love to him sounding good.
00:23:43
Speaker 2: He sounds good.
00:23:45
Speaker 1: And by the way, the reporter who sat through his show said it was amazing for standing ovations.
00:23:51
Speaker 3: He did a meet and greet afterwards.
00:23:52
Speaker 1: And people he he was being celebrated by this small crowd in Cyprus, And you know what, sometimes it's good to be a big fish in a small ocean, especially when you've been in a lot of other environments and you've seen what the cost can be. I'm happy to hear he's doing well, and with that everyone, we thank you for listening to us. We appreciate you as always. I'm Amy Roboc alongside TJ.
00:24:19
Speaker 3: Holmes. We will talk to you soon.