Aug. 13, 2026
This Sucks! I’m Divorced…And Now, So Is My Child!
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RSS Feed Our favorite Golden Bachelor alum Susan Noles, Joan Vassos, Kathy Swarts, and Cindy Cullers are reflecting on how far they’ve come in their chapter two.
Things get emotional when Susan opens up about what’s going on in her family and how she’s trying to be supportive.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
00:00:19
Speaker 1: Hey, I do Part two.
00:00:21
Speaker 2: It's your celebrity mentor, Susan Oles, and I'm here in Tahoe with some of my favorite Bachelor Nation alum Joan, Kathy and Cindy. We are all in our chapter two. Let's dive into this world a bit because we all have a lot of advice and experience to share.
00:00:43
Speaker 3: We do, we do, we a lot of age, but we also experience it goes with it.
00:00:47
Speaker 2: Can I ask you guys, what has been the biggest change that you've seen in yourselves.
00:00:55
Speaker 1: In chapter two?
00:00:56
Speaker 4: No, that's a big question.
00:00:57
Speaker 5: The biggest change I think for me is the freedom to reimagine what my life can look like and to let go of what other people's expectations are, to what my kids expectations are, my friends, everyone, and just to find the.
00:01:11
Speaker 4: Life that I want to live.
00:01:14
Speaker 1: I love it.
00:01:14
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think for me, my chapter two looks a little differently because I'm not divorced. I'm widowed, and sudden widowhood changes your life in a different kind of way. But for me, I so appreciate nature and I allow myself now. What were Joan and I were just talking about this that we allow ourselves now to I sit on my back porch with a book, and I imagine my life that that's a complete life. Enjoin a book with a cup of coffee, looking out at the birds, looking out at my trees in my backyard, knowing that whatever I feel like doing that day, it's enough. I don't have to answer to my children or be a certain way for my kids. But I think the only other difference for me is my parents were divorced when I was very young, so I had the security ripped out from underneath me, and my whole life was feeling insecure. In time met my husband and then I had this very secure life. So when I became single suddenly, I never wanted my kids to feel that insecurity because their dad was gone, even though they were grown adults. So you know, my chapter two is looking a little different in that way. Yeah, what about you, John.
00:02:36
Speaker 3: I feel like, like like you said, when you become a widow, it's your the future that you had planned is all of a sudden, a blank slate and the like letting go of what you imagined your future would look like with the person that you were going to do it with that you you know, is your life partner, is really hard, and that takes like a lot of growth and a lot of reflection and like, how am I going to now create this life for myself? And I found like that I was stronger than I thought, and it took a while, it took several years, but like I embraced being a single parent that even though my kids aren't little anymore, they need me as much as they ever did, and the things that they need me for are way more important. So I had to be stronger than I ever was. I had to reimagine what my future was going to look like. And that's still like a work in progress. I'm still like figuring that out, but I don't have to have that like perfect, this is what I'm going to do for the next twenty years. I'm okay with not knowing when I'm moving for the next twenty years. And that used to make me very uncomfortable and now I'm very comfortable with it.
00:03:37
Speaker 6: Well, I was just going to say, Susan, the three of us, Sindy, you don't have grandchildren yet, but the three of us have grandchildren, and that's something also that how I imagine being a grandmother and the grandparenting, how that was going to be all the things who were going to do as a family.
00:03:54
Speaker 2: And I love the fact that you said you take the time to appreciate the moment, the saying the smell the roses, right, do the coffee, because we didn't have time. We didn't The biggest change that I saw in myself, I've always been a giver, a provider, take care of the kids, if I mean, now it's about me, and it feels amazing because it's time for me. I still would do for people, but taking that moment, like you said, and sitting there and just watching nature like today out on the lake. Yeah, we were on that boat and we were taking it all in and we all had a moment just by ourselves, just looking thinking how blessed are we?
00:04:38
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think Cindy, your kids when you got divorced. I'm not sure how old your kids were. But your chapter two again is you're you're not quite as far along as we are, only because you know.
00:04:52
Speaker 5: I'm seven years, seven years into that chapter two.
00:04:58
Speaker 1: The part of it is.
00:04:59
Speaker 5: COVID so erased a couple of them, because those don't account for anybody. But no, I knew that my marriage was over three years before I filed, So it's really been a decade for me.
00:05:10
Speaker 4: And I waited.
00:05:11
Speaker 5: I wanted to wait till all my kids were out of the house. They're they're really close in age. And my therapist actually said, why would you wait until your daughter goes to college where she knows nobody, she has no support system, and then make this change in her life. So he really encouraged me to do it earlier than I was thinking.
00:05:31
Speaker 2: Is there anything that you could say you appreciate more now than you did in your marriage.
00:05:37
Speaker 4: Oh, that's such a deep question.
00:05:43
Speaker 5: The relationship that I had with my girls was so different after I filed. There was a lot of blame that came back to me that you know, I was kind of surprised that they go through but I did. I did nothing except file.
00:05:59
Speaker 6: But but see, that's that's what I'm saying is when we were all married, yeah, our life, we had made our lives taking care of our children, our husbands. Even if you worked outside the home, it fell to us. And so so when you get divorced, you're right, or you lose a spouse. Our children look at us differently. They look at their.
00:06:26
Speaker 2: The blame game too, I'm sure. Yeah, for sure like, especially in your case, your kids probably had moments because they're trying to figure out the divorce, the blame game. Your husband was sick, so that's totally different.
00:06:40
Speaker 6: Right, But don't you think when when you're married and then all of a sudden, for most of us, our children didn't need us in the same way.
00:06:51
Speaker 1: So we were ripe for change, if you will.
00:06:56
Speaker 6: The things that we had done didn't need to We weren't girls scout lead anymore.
00:07:00
Speaker 1: We weren't room mothers.
00:07:02
Speaker 6: Our kids pretty much were finishing college, you know, they were getting ready to launch their own lives. And for I will be honest, for me, that was scary to start it so suddenly and realize that, for example, I could lie in bed and read a book, where before I love to read, but before I would seal minutes I would feel guilty because you know, I really should be doing this for my husband, running that era and doing this. And now all of a sudden, I can lay in bed and read for.
00:07:34
Speaker 1: Two because you're not raising kids anymore, they were done, and I also don't have a spouse.
00:07:39
Speaker 6: So for me, that the change of as you said, Susan, being able to focus on yourself I had a lot of guilt. I'm not supposed to be doing this initially, I'm not supposed to be lying in bed at ten in the morning and reading a book with a cup of coffee.
00:07:58
Speaker 1: It was hard for me. Maybe why did you feel that way?
00:08:01
Speaker 3: I feel the same way because I don't feel that way.
00:08:04
Speaker 1: I'm feel guilty. I don't know.
00:08:07
Speaker 3: I feel like I should be doing something. Like all my kids live close to me, and they know. Three of my four kids have a grand someone live with me. Three of my kids have, you know, children, So I feel like they're so busy and I should be helping them, like I. You know, there's this idea of as you get older, and like I think we are the first generation that's kind of bucking this idea because our parents brought into it, brought into it that we're supposed to be like the supporting role now as you get older and our careers are less important, that we should now be lending our time to our kids.
00:08:36
Speaker 4: I still have that mindset.
00:08:38
Speaker 3: Even though it's not true. I don't think that our generation is buying into that. We're working for longer financially, A lot of people have to we are living bigger lives because we are healthier. So I don't think that we have to buy into that mindset, but I think it's in my head already because it's what my parents did and we are. We are the generation is going to break that. Our kids probably won't feel like I do or like you do now, but.
00:09:02
Speaker 1: I know they're nothing like us. Yeah.
00:09:05
Speaker 5: I heard something you said recently that I was really impacted by.
00:09:08
Speaker 1: Joan.
00:09:09
Speaker 5: You said that as your kids get older, your role in their life diminishes, and so we almost have to step into our lives we do so that we are not you. I think you said burden, and I know that it means different things, but I loved what you said because it for my kids. Even if I go to visit one of my daughters who lives out of town and I'm there for a week, Yeah, I mean, they would never tell me, but it is kind of a burden I disrupt your schedule.
00:09:35
Speaker 4: Then you're right, I know.
00:09:37
Speaker 3: Well I did say and I said that statement when my kids were not thrilled that I was going on the Golden Bachelor, and they kind of bucked me a little bit. Two of them were okay, two of them are like, why are you doing this.
00:09:49
Speaker 1: This is stupid.
00:09:50
Speaker 3: And I said, you don't understand what's going to happen in the next like five or ten years. I said, your lives are going to become bigger. You're going to you know you my kids have all gotten married in the last life five years and there, I said, And you're gonna have kids, and you're gonna have a different friend group, and you're gonna be going on vacations with these other friends. You're gonna have neighbors, you're gonna have your You're a group of people is growing. Your world is getting bigger. I said, mine will diminish. I said, and you guys are going to think that I'm a burden on you. You're gonna be like, who's you know, We're gonna go on vacation, Who's taking mom?
00:10:21
Speaker 4: Who's going to see moms?
00:10:24
Speaker 3: Like did you have to last time you had mom over for dinner or whatever. I go, I'm doing you a favor. I am finding I'm making life for myself, so I'm not a burden on you. Now you don't get it yet, but I do.
00:10:34
Speaker 1: I know it's wrong.
00:10:35
Speaker 6: I think that's something all four of us have in common, even though some of you are divorced.
00:10:40
Speaker 1: Some of us are widows.
00:10:42
Speaker 6: If I have said it so many times, when when you have a sudden when one has a very sudden, dramatic change in their life, loss of the spouse, divorced, however it happens, you really have to reimagine your life. And we are lucky, I think, because I didn't realize at the time, you know, I when my husband died, I remember, I still do. I spent so much time walking. I was at peace when I was walking and looking, which sounds crazy, but it just.
00:11:14
Speaker 1: It wasn't having a long time. It was looking.
00:11:16
Speaker 6: Out and and and sort of talking to God and looking at trees and birds and things that I'd never done before. But you know, for me, the biggest, the biggest way that I've moved into this chapter two is going on the Golden Bachelor. And and we we they gave us that gift. Even though you know, it didn't work for all of us the way maybe we wanted it.
00:11:39
Speaker 1: To, there was so much more. We got so much more.
00:11:42
Speaker 6: And for us, I have friends now who are going through divorces and they are so lost, and I realized that in some ways do it.
00:11:51
Speaker 1: It's crazy to think of it, but doing.
00:11:53
Speaker 6: A show like The Bachelor helped anchor my life and helped me move forward.
00:11:58
Speaker 5: It's definitely a statement of avery, like to put yourself out there on the show the way that we did was I think, out of all of our comfort zones. But to be able to stand in our life and to say, listen, I'm proud of who I am, where I am, and I'm going to go give this a try. Why not, let's just go give this a try. It was a very brave thing for each and everyone.
00:12:17
Speaker 3: Has it evolved, and I know for us when we were when we started filming and we started meeting each other, I think we came to know that obviously all of us were not going to find love, but we found a community. And then we were the example to everybody else out there watching the show that if you create a community, you can find so much happiness in it. The biggest gift we got from this, I mean we all got, you know, a community like here we are, the four of us are here together, like.
00:12:42
Speaker 1: I have a lot of.
00:12:44
Speaker 6: Couples when you get divorced. I've heard so many of my friends say I've lost my friend group.
00:12:50
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, A couple. We know that, and we have gained That's what I'm saying. We have gained this great community.
00:12:57
Speaker 5: And people who are probably more like us than people who might be in relationship or maybe those couples. I know, for me, a lot of the friends that I had were proximity friends. You know, I might have collected them over time from sitting in the bleachers or being at the sideline of the soccer. Now I'm looking for alignment like we and fun. And I may not love every bit of I mean, I love every bit of everyone, but you know, you just kind of know what people are and there's no judgment. Let's just you know, but you can rebuild what that looks.
00:13:25
Speaker 1: Like all of you.
00:13:37
Speaker 2: Is there anything as you were going through heartbreak and divorces also have heartbreak, anything that you would tell somebody going through a divorce surprisingly that helped you. Is there any one thing you can think.
00:13:52
Speaker 3: Of, like I think all of us because we all had kids and you had this need to be strong and to not implode and not take a day off and just keep moving forward. I got a function. I got to make sure they're okay. I got to make sure I'm a good example to them that we can do this, and that we can't just like crawl into a hole, but every once in a while, let yourself call it in the hole, like to go upstairs. And this is what I did about maybe once a month, and it got less and less. I do it less and less. I still have every well, I have a moment that I need to go and hibernate. But allow yourself just to feel the grief, feel the gad, feel the greef, and you don't have to be strong. And I would kind of say that to them, they be like, Oh, Mom, isn't answering your phone? I could see the text messages A mom doesn't answer your phone?
00:14:38
Speaker 4: Mom, what are you doing?
00:14:38
Speaker 3: Why aren't chanswering your phone? We're trying to call you. Are you upstairs? Oh no, are you having one of your days? I'm like, yeah, maybe when my days leave me alone, but that I need it.
00:14:48
Speaker 5: Sometimes you're gonna either feel it now or feel it later, So go ahead and allow you feeling.
00:14:54
Speaker 6: If I said this, and you have to walk through the grief to get to the other side.
00:14:59
Speaker 4: And we couldn't have gotten here without going.
00:15:03
Speaker 6: Yeah, to get But I also think that I think sometimes we think about how do I get through it, like survive today when I've got some friends going through divorce right now, and I'm trying to encourage them to try things they've never done. Literally, I was one of my friends is going through divorce, and I said to her, why don't you take They were all physical activities. Why don't you take up golf? Why don't you take a wine class? Do we have this wine place in my neighbor? I said, they take a wine, learn about do something, you know, cry, feel, allow yourself to feel the feelings. But there's no time like the present to start building your future.
00:15:50
Speaker 1: And it's funny.
00:15:51
Speaker 2: I have you girls sitting with me, and it's very easy for me to help somebody going through a divorce.
00:15:56
Speaker 1: But when it's your daughter, you know, and I feel like I want to cry right now.
00:16:00
Speaker 2: My daughter calls us seven o'clock this morning. You can't say the same things to your daughter. What do you what do you say well for your daughter? So it's okay to feel bad, it's okay to be angry. You're going to go through different phases. And my biggest word is time. But nobody wants to hear that. And we're going through it. And as she lay there and said, Mom, even though I hate him right now, but she was my best friend. I no longer have somebody next to me in bed that I could share my day with, or something that pissed me off during the day and get it out like I get it.
00:16:39
Speaker 1: But what words do you have for them?
00:16:42
Speaker 4: I love you?
00:16:43
Speaker 6: Yeah, you are a time go through all you are, Cindy.
00:16:52
Speaker 1: What you just said, you're a whole person.
00:16:54
Speaker 5: Without someone else. We spent so much of our time looking for the other person to come alongside of us. And I'll be darned, they're going to be the luckiest person. They're gonna be the luckiest. We have such a fun full life.
00:17:07
Speaker 1: We are whole.
00:17:08
Speaker 2: But they look at it like it's but you know.
00:17:14
Speaker 6: What, Susan one thing that you can't say to her now, but but maybe it'll bring you some comfort as she goes into her chapter two and you know she has children to raise and all that sometimes for me anyway, these horrible experiences that we've all been through and our children go through, that's what gets us the character, the strength, the braver that that's when our real character shines and we become stronger women. For those things, we learn things about ourselves that we wouldn't learn if we didn't have these really hard experiences to go through. So in my way, in my belief, sometimes I really believe for me this chapter two is a gift. It's a horrible way for me to have gotten here. And I hope for your daughter that she will get there and realize that it was a gift, because she's going to come out of it stronger.
00:18:15
Speaker 3: I gave my son. He had a really really bad jet ski accident and he like almost chopped his leg off and it broke his hip and his knee and all this. Anyway, well, he was recovering. He was really struggling, and I found a sign and I just put in his room and it said, smooth waters never make a skilled sailor.
00:18:33
Speaker 1: There, you're so true.
00:18:35
Speaker 3: You do not get these life skills without going through some sh and that's what life is like, what we learned from So like this is her. Perhaps she's become she'll become a skilled tailor. It's going to take some time.
00:18:46
Speaker 2: And for me, when I was going through heartbreak, what I think surprised that helped me is when I got to help somebody else and forgot about my own I wasn't dwelling in my own sorrow who they were.
00:19:01
Speaker 1: Unless selfish chapter, Your.
00:19:04
Speaker 5: Daughter is going to see you differently. She will look back, well what I feel, give an example that you will give her, and you already gave her. She will see what you went through as you dissolved your marriage and how strong you were and how you've rebuilt your life.
00:19:20
Speaker 4: So it's just such a sure it will be a beautiful.
00:19:22
Speaker 5: Bonding moment for the two of you as well.
00:19:24
Speaker 3: I also think that you know, we live in a world of couples, and to uncouple is really hard for her because she probably loses and we all did, and I know we all did because I've talked to you all about it. You lose your couple of friends because now you're a single and they don't invite you to things. The holes don't invite singles to things, especially if you're attractive women.
00:19:43
Speaker 1: Or they invite one and not the other.
00:19:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so you're divided, and so I'm sure she's going to go through that. So, like my best advice to her would be find someone else going through a divorce and like laugh about it, cry about it.
00:19:55
Speaker 1: And talk to them about it and then have.
00:19:58
Speaker 3: A wingman, somebody that's going to go out with you as other couple of the other half of you.
00:20:01
Speaker 6: So so I have a question because this maybe is something that she could think about. What, even though our kids are older, what did we do well? I think about that, What did I do well even though my kids are grown? As I hate saying that I'm a single parent. What things have I taught my children since I've been a single parent.
00:20:28
Speaker 2: And it's funny, Kathy, because I was upset, but I thought you were tougher than this. I trained you to do this or this. My daughter, Yeah, she's not showing strength.
00:20:41
Speaker 1: She was weak.
00:20:42
Speaker 2: She was the victim. And I think that's just a phase that she had to go through, yeah, you know, and then get stronger. But what we've done for our kids, we raised them and we taught them values.
00:20:53
Speaker 6: Yeah, But as a single parent, I'm saying now, like I think I've taught my children some really important lessons since I've been single And the biggest one is there's nothing you can't overcome. There's nothing you can't overcome if you work at it. That I'm showing them that I don't need a man to live a happy, full life. Get the get the toilet repaired, you know, from from literally soup to nuts. And I think, I think that that is something that our children should all learn, whether they're single or married, now that they don't need a man in their life.
00:21:39
Speaker 1: That none of us need anybody.
00:21:41
Speaker 6: But I think, but I think our children when I was married, I was married very young, the thought of being on my own. I think now I've done a really good job of showing my kids, Hey, kids, I was married very young, and you know, you're dad took care of so much in this traditional family. And now my kids look at me and they've said, mom, you are so strong, grave and so strong, and that makes me What I didn't do well, I think was completely fell apart when their dad died as a single parent.
00:22:22
Speaker 1: What do you mean you didn't do that. I couldn't function show enough.
00:22:26
Speaker 6: I couldn't function because I didn't have time to prepare for anything. And so that I was I at that. I'm just saying, well, I'm not saying it's not understandable. I'm saying I wish that I could have. I needed to crawl in that hole. But you were talking about Joan. I wish I could have crawled in in frozen time. Just give me six months to you know, work with this, and then I can come back and be a really good parent. And now now I'm I've come back and I'm the I'm the good grandparent and I'm there for my kids. But I I didn't show my best side.
00:23:03
Speaker 1: We're gonna shift just the little bit. I don't want to know. Did anybody else do something.
00:23:08
Speaker 5: I still have struggles, and I think my kids are so excited about the life that I've rebuilt, but there are parts of me that still wish I had somebody to be with. And I've got three daughters and I would rather them not see how important another person in my life.
00:23:22
Speaker 4: Is to me.
00:23:23
Speaker 1: How were your children when you.
00:23:26
Speaker 5: My youngest was a senior in high school and the other two were in college older.
00:23:31
Speaker 2: They weren't babies and your children when your husband passed, right, they were adults?
00:23:35
Speaker 6: Yes, but it's still there. We wait, Candya, you just said something. You said that you don't want your girls to see that you need a man.
00:23:44
Speaker 1: Did I hear you correctly?
00:23:45
Speaker 4: Need a man?
00:23:46
Speaker 1: Of it?
00:23:46
Speaker 5: I really, my heart, my heart's desire is still to have to find my ads. It still is not like I feel incomplete, but you know, you talked to me a lot. I really would love to find my partner. And for my three daughters, two of them are married and I'm so glad they found someone, and my youngest one is still single. But I don't know that I've done a great job of showing them clearly, I'm standing on my own, but I still wish I had someone. I did it, okay, you you have.
00:24:25
Speaker 3: A lot of love to give and you want to give it, so that's a good thing.
00:24:29
Speaker 6: But I.
00:24:32
Speaker 4: Think though.
00:24:34
Speaker 3: That, like so, we all had the choice that we could kind of choose this, you know, kind of mediocre life and we could not be happy, but we chose happiness. And I think that is a really good example. And we didn't wait for it to happen to happen to us. We didn't expect somebody else to bring us happiness. We went out and found.
00:24:53
Speaker 1: It, and we were hard.
00:24:54
Speaker 3: Like you said, we put ourselves out there in a scary way. And like I think people listening to this podcast are going to say, well, I don't have that opportunity, but do something choose happiness.
00:25:05
Speaker 1: It's the only thing. It's when you.
00:25:08
Speaker 3: You're the only person that's responsible for your own happiness.
00:25:11
Speaker 6: Yes, but I don't even have to get up. We are right, Absolutely, You're right. People might say that, but you don't have to apply and go on the Bachelor or Love Island or anything else. You can get up, and you can. I've never taken a stand up paddle board lesson, you know I'm going to do that today. Or I've never learned to pay play bridge or magen. I mean, you know, if you can say I haven't been to the gym in thirty years, but you know what, I'm going to go and take one class. I think it's it's that's what I want to see women.
00:25:45
Speaker 1: We were lucky.
00:25:46
Speaker 6: But I think our lesson is empowering others feeling they can do it.
00:25:51
Speaker 1: We did it. You gave us.
00:25:53
Speaker 2: Is this ability to share that with people struggling out there right now that don't have that possibility and hearing us say things gives them motivation.
00:26:03
Speaker 5: The show did support us coming through this, and so it is absolutely for us to share with others.
00:26:08
Speaker 4: Dial yourself up.
00:26:09
Speaker 5: You know, we've dimmed our lights over time, and partly because we love our kids. We diminished our light to spread with them and you know, dial it back up.
00:26:18
Speaker 3: We are exactly. I said that when I came off with loldon Bachelor. I said, as you get older, you become more invisible. Don't accept that. And I had accepted it, and I was like, you know, I'll walk up to a host to stand and there'll be other people standing around, and the hostess will ask every other young person or you know, guy in a suit or whatever before they say, you know, do you want a table?
00:26:40
Speaker 1: You don't allow that to happen.
00:26:42
Speaker 3: You don't have to be in business.
00:26:43
Speaker 6: That's that's what I hope people hear it is. I don't care what your chapter two looks like. I don't care how you got there. I mean I care everybody gets there, but everybody has it up yourself, and I don't know you cheated.
00:26:59
Speaker 3: On, it'll be important.
00:27:00
Speaker 1: I think that's really hard.
00:27:01
Speaker 2: You just mentioned that because for anyone listening right now, and they keep attracting men that cheat on, oh gosh, what advice can we give them?
00:27:12
Speaker 1: What advice? And anybody here been cheated on before? Have you ever been cheated?
00:27:18
Speaker 5: Of course, not many, I can tell you that's not very many times, because you know I tend to have a nose for it.
00:27:26
Speaker 1: Yes, you're no, you should keep attracting the same kind of men. What advice would you give them?
00:27:32
Speaker 4: You should look at yourself.
00:27:34
Speaker 3: I agree with you.
00:27:34
Speaker 5: A relationship, and relationship is a mirror, no matter if it's a healthy one, and I love the idea of mirroring for my significant other some things that they do great and some things that they can do better. But it's also a mirror if that relationship falls apart. So it's not just that they're cheating.
00:27:50
Speaker 1: Sounds a little.
00:27:50
Speaker 2: Double standard to me because if they're not choosing that person.
00:27:54
Speaker 1: To cheat on them, but how were that will do it?
00:27:59
Speaker 5: So what is it about me that keeps tracking, that keeps attracting, that it keeps accepting it? Typically, in my opinion my friends who also have gone through a lot more than me, it's typically that you don't feel worthy, that's not having someone's entire attention and love.
00:28:15
Speaker 6: And you will create a narrative you will go to I mean, I've never been cheated on, it's subconscious, but you don't do worthy, so you create a narrative that supports your unworthiness. So this is all I deserve and then it just feeds on itself and so I you know, my thing I always say is you keep doing what you've been doing, You're going to keep getting what you've been getting. So you really, I think, have to look at who you are as a person. What do you do, what do you put up with when you go on a date? What what red flags do you see? And then you say, you.
00:28:54
Speaker 2: Know the old I can change of miss talking about me right now because I still haven't seen that flag.
00:28:59
Speaker 1: I got color blind.
00:29:04
Speaker 4: They I think they're there.
00:29:05
Speaker 3: There is and I'm thinking kind of a little bit of the younger generation, maybe not our generation, that you have to show them that you are valuable, that your that your love and that your.
00:29:16
Speaker 1: Respect, your work.
00:29:17
Speaker 3: They have to earn it and that it's valuable. And I think so much of a relationship a loted for the younger people's physical and they allow a physical relationship before they have the respect that they should demand.
00:29:30
Speaker 1: And there's so many options, so many. Did you feel that way when you were young?
00:29:36
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I felt like you need to show them that you have value that you just don't.
00:29:40
Speaker 6: I think that transcends age. I was very very young, but I happened to choose the guy that had so much integrity.
00:29:48
Speaker 1: It was ridiculous. I I lucked down. I did.
00:29:51
Speaker 6: But I do think cheaters are out there, and I think, by the way, not just men cheat women just and I think the damage that that does to the individual, that takes even more work, because now you don't trust, you don't believe.
00:30:11
Speaker 1: I must not have been good enough. He cheated on me? What's wrong with him?
00:30:18
Speaker 3: And when they should be now building themselves up, they're being torn down time and time again, and it becomes a there's aus circle.
00:30:25
Speaker 4: Do you think once a cheater, always a cheater.
00:30:28
Speaker 1: I don't.
00:30:28
Speaker 2: I don't think so think some people can learn from it. How about could you accept it from a spouse that they made a huge mistake and never do it again?
00:30:38
Speaker 1: You know the promise, that's how they caught up?
00:30:40
Speaker 6: And you can't I think that question people I saw all the time. It's it's not one size fits all. If I had been married for a year and my husband cheated on me, the door would hit.
00:30:54
Speaker 1: His ass so fast.
00:30:56
Speaker 6: But a fifty forty thirty year marriage where you have children, I don't know because I wasn't cheated on, But I'm going to do some real investigations, some really soul searching before I toss his.
00:31:09
Speaker 2: And I think this question is more for Cindy and I since we're a divorce. But did you ever fear your kids would be damaged or messed up because of it?
00:31:17
Speaker 5: I think of it all the time. I actually had a conversation with one of my daughters this last week because I still have feelings about my divorce and my ex husband. I have feelings, and my best friends are my kids, and if I can't openly share with them, then what do I do? And I still know that they are affected differently than me. Sure, So how do you you know? I couldn't imagine them and any feel your feelings.
00:31:40
Speaker 2: Not feeling that fear, you know, just checking in and making sure you're not screwing them up. But you also don't want to screw up the rest of your life. You know it's best for you.
00:31:50
Speaker 1: And also the example that.
00:31:51
Speaker 3: You're setting for them that like, if you accept a marriage that is not good and they see that, oh well, Mom stayed in the marriage, is that what they're going to think? And you don't want them to accept an unhoping marriage in their life. So you're being really hard on yourself. Yeah, and you should give yourself some grace because you actually showed them a really good example that they should not accept a bad marriage and that they should not do that to themselves.
00:32:16
Speaker 6: And I will say my parents were divorced when I was five, and I will tell you as I said, that created so much insecurity in my life.
00:32:26
Speaker 2: And that's what we're saying. So you you felt it as a while. Oh and I picked well. I picked well.
00:32:35
Speaker 4: I thought I did too.
00:32:36
Speaker 1: I picked I was.
00:32:37
Speaker 5: A child of divorce, and I thought I picked him well to avoid that.
00:32:41
Speaker 6: And I got very very young people change. I thought I did pick well and I was lucky.
00:32:47
Speaker 1: I don't. I can't give myself very much credit.
00:32:50
Speaker 6: However, I think as a child of divorce, and by the way, my parents' divorce was violent. It was a horrible divorce, and so I worked that much harder in my marriage to make it work. But I do think it caused insecurity in me. I think my kids. But I had that conversation with my children.
00:33:23
Speaker 2: When you were your parents were going through that divorce, and you're during your lowest moments, what did you do? How did you pour into yourself during that.
00:33:30
Speaker 1: Time when my parents got divorced.
00:33:32
Speaker 6: Yeah, Susan, I was so afraid I was going to get beaten by my mind.
00:33:36
Speaker 1: It was. It was a violent divorce. There was no security in my life.
00:33:41
Speaker 6: And that's why I got married too young. I just happened to you. I needed safety. I needed I needed somebody who I thought would take care of me and I and I did.
00:33:51
Speaker 1: I got that.
00:33:52
Speaker 6: But my children always said, oh, Mom, you got married when you were twenty years old. And I now they understand, they understand why I did, and I don't regret it. There are a lot of things I missed, like you guys experienced that I didn't. But I and our children, my son's divorced and remarried. You know, I think sometimes we blame ourselves too much. We give ourselves too much responsibility, Like we have to be perfect for our children so that they won't get divorced.
00:34:25
Speaker 1: Yeah that doesn't we have nothing to do with that. That's they make.
00:34:30
Speaker 2: But let me get another opinion from your ladies. What do you think about the rise in gray divorce? And I'm sorry, gray divorce much much more happening now than it ever did.
00:34:45
Speaker 3: Very interesting.
00:34:46
Speaker 1: I think, wait, there later later in life and they call it quits.
00:34:49
Speaker 3: I know, because I think we're living longer and people do see a second chapter and they're like, I don't have to be with this person that I'm not happy with them. Maybe I've done it for sixty years or however many years, but like I can stop this vicious circle. And I also think that people, as you get older, and maybe they didn't have this feeling when they were younger, that they are okay being alone. Because if you go into this gray chapter thinking that you're going to find somebody else, you're probably wrong. You're probably not.
00:35:17
Speaker 4: Going to find somebody else.
00:35:17
Speaker 3: Okay, we all know this, right, But if you go into this great chapter and saying, I don't want to be with this person I've been with for all these years and I'm not really happy with anymore, and I'm okay being alone. And I think people are starting to realize that there's a community out there and I can be alone with a lot of people other.
00:35:35
Speaker 1: People that are alone. I mean, it's okay, it's a good group.
00:35:37
Speaker 2: I just want to thank both all three of you for all of your opinions, and are you really going through it?
00:35:43
Speaker 1: And need some advice.
00:35:44
Speaker 2: Feeling lost in your divorce process, Send us an email or leave us a voicemail. All the info is in the show notes. Follow us on Socials. I Do Part two, an iHeartRadio podcast where falling in love is the main objective
Speaker 1: Hey, I do Part two.
00:00:21
Speaker 2: It's your celebrity mentor, Susan Oles, and I'm here in Tahoe with some of my favorite Bachelor Nation alum Joan, Kathy and Cindy. We are all in our chapter two. Let's dive into this world a bit because we all have a lot of advice and experience to share.
00:00:43
Speaker 3: We do, we do, we a lot of age, but we also experience it goes with it.
00:00:47
Speaker 2: Can I ask you guys, what has been the biggest change that you've seen in yourselves.
00:00:55
Speaker 1: In chapter two?
00:00:56
Speaker 4: No, that's a big question.
00:00:57
Speaker 5: The biggest change I think for me is the freedom to reimagine what my life can look like and to let go of what other people's expectations are, to what my kids expectations are, my friends, everyone, and just to find the.
00:01:11
Speaker 4: Life that I want to live.
00:01:14
Speaker 1: I love it.
00:01:14
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think for me, my chapter two looks a little differently because I'm not divorced. I'm widowed, and sudden widowhood changes your life in a different kind of way. But for me, I so appreciate nature and I allow myself now. What were Joan and I were just talking about this that we allow ourselves now to I sit on my back porch with a book, and I imagine my life that that's a complete life. Enjoin a book with a cup of coffee, looking out at the birds, looking out at my trees in my backyard, knowing that whatever I feel like doing that day, it's enough. I don't have to answer to my children or be a certain way for my kids. But I think the only other difference for me is my parents were divorced when I was very young, so I had the security ripped out from underneath me, and my whole life was feeling insecure. In time met my husband and then I had this very secure life. So when I became single suddenly, I never wanted my kids to feel that insecurity because their dad was gone, even though they were grown adults. So you know, my chapter two is looking a little different in that way. Yeah, what about you, John.
00:02:36
Speaker 3: I feel like, like like you said, when you become a widow, it's your the future that you had planned is all of a sudden, a blank slate and the like letting go of what you imagined your future would look like with the person that you were going to do it with that you you know, is your life partner, is really hard, and that takes like a lot of growth and a lot of reflection and like, how am I going to now create this life for myself? And I found like that I was stronger than I thought, and it took a while, it took several years, but like I embraced being a single parent that even though my kids aren't little anymore, they need me as much as they ever did, and the things that they need me for are way more important. So I had to be stronger than I ever was. I had to reimagine what my future was going to look like. And that's still like a work in progress. I'm still like figuring that out, but I don't have to have that like perfect, this is what I'm going to do for the next twenty years. I'm okay with not knowing when I'm moving for the next twenty years. And that used to make me very uncomfortable and now I'm very comfortable with it.
00:03:37
Speaker 6: Well, I was just going to say, Susan, the three of us, Sindy, you don't have grandchildren yet, but the three of us have grandchildren, and that's something also that how I imagine being a grandmother and the grandparenting, how that was going to be all the things who were going to do as a family.
00:03:54
Speaker 2: And I love the fact that you said you take the time to appreciate the moment, the saying the smell the roses, right, do the coffee, because we didn't have time. We didn't The biggest change that I saw in myself, I've always been a giver, a provider, take care of the kids, if I mean, now it's about me, and it feels amazing because it's time for me. I still would do for people, but taking that moment, like you said, and sitting there and just watching nature like today out on the lake. Yeah, we were on that boat and we were taking it all in and we all had a moment just by ourselves, just looking thinking how blessed are we?
00:04:38
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think Cindy, your kids when you got divorced. I'm not sure how old your kids were. But your chapter two again is you're you're not quite as far along as we are, only because you know.
00:04:52
Speaker 5: I'm seven years, seven years into that chapter two.
00:04:58
Speaker 1: The part of it is.
00:04:59
Speaker 5: COVID so erased a couple of them, because those don't account for anybody. But no, I knew that my marriage was over three years before I filed, So it's really been a decade for me.
00:05:10
Speaker 4: And I waited.
00:05:11
Speaker 5: I wanted to wait till all my kids were out of the house. They're they're really close in age. And my therapist actually said, why would you wait until your daughter goes to college where she knows nobody, she has no support system, and then make this change in her life. So he really encouraged me to do it earlier than I was thinking.
00:05:31
Speaker 2: Is there anything that you could say you appreciate more now than you did in your marriage.
00:05:37
Speaker 4: Oh, that's such a deep question.
00:05:43
Speaker 5: The relationship that I had with my girls was so different after I filed. There was a lot of blame that came back to me that you know, I was kind of surprised that they go through but I did. I did nothing except file.
00:05:59
Speaker 6: But but see, that's that's what I'm saying is when we were all married, yeah, our life, we had made our lives taking care of our children, our husbands. Even if you worked outside the home, it fell to us. And so so when you get divorced, you're right, or you lose a spouse. Our children look at us differently. They look at their.
00:06:26
Speaker 2: The blame game too, I'm sure. Yeah, for sure like, especially in your case, your kids probably had moments because they're trying to figure out the divorce, the blame game. Your husband was sick, so that's totally different.
00:06:40
Speaker 6: Right, But don't you think when when you're married and then all of a sudden, for most of us, our children didn't need us in the same way.
00:06:51
Speaker 1: So we were ripe for change, if you will.
00:06:56
Speaker 6: The things that we had done didn't need to We weren't girls scout lead anymore.
00:07:00
Speaker 1: We weren't room mothers.
00:07:02
Speaker 6: Our kids pretty much were finishing college, you know, they were getting ready to launch their own lives. And for I will be honest, for me, that was scary to start it so suddenly and realize that, for example, I could lie in bed and read a book, where before I love to read, but before I would seal minutes I would feel guilty because you know, I really should be doing this for my husband, running that era and doing this. And now all of a sudden, I can lay in bed and read for.
00:07:34
Speaker 1: Two because you're not raising kids anymore, they were done, and I also don't have a spouse.
00:07:39
Speaker 6: So for me, that the change of as you said, Susan, being able to focus on yourself I had a lot of guilt. I'm not supposed to be doing this initially, I'm not supposed to be lying in bed at ten in the morning and reading a book with a cup of coffee.
00:07:58
Speaker 1: It was hard for me. Maybe why did you feel that way?
00:08:01
Speaker 3: I feel the same way because I don't feel that way.
00:08:04
Speaker 1: I'm feel guilty. I don't know.
00:08:07
Speaker 3: I feel like I should be doing something. Like all my kids live close to me, and they know. Three of my four kids have a grand someone live with me. Three of my kids have, you know, children, So I feel like they're so busy and I should be helping them, like I. You know, there's this idea of as you get older, and like I think we are the first generation that's kind of bucking this idea because our parents brought into it, brought into it that we're supposed to be like the supporting role now as you get older and our careers are less important, that we should now be lending our time to our kids.
00:08:36
Speaker 4: I still have that mindset.
00:08:38
Speaker 3: Even though it's not true. I don't think that our generation is buying into that. We're working for longer financially, A lot of people have to we are living bigger lives because we are healthier. So I don't think that we have to buy into that mindset, but I think it's in my head already because it's what my parents did and we are. We are the generation is going to break that. Our kids probably won't feel like I do or like you do now, but.
00:09:02
Speaker 1: I know they're nothing like us. Yeah.
00:09:05
Speaker 5: I heard something you said recently that I was really impacted by.
00:09:08
Speaker 1: Joan.
00:09:09
Speaker 5: You said that as your kids get older, your role in their life diminishes, and so we almost have to step into our lives we do so that we are not you. I think you said burden, and I know that it means different things, but I loved what you said because it for my kids. Even if I go to visit one of my daughters who lives out of town and I'm there for a week, Yeah, I mean, they would never tell me, but it is kind of a burden I disrupt your schedule.
00:09:35
Speaker 4: Then you're right, I know.
00:09:37
Speaker 3: Well I did say and I said that statement when my kids were not thrilled that I was going on the Golden Bachelor, and they kind of bucked me a little bit. Two of them were okay, two of them are like, why are you doing this.
00:09:49
Speaker 1: This is stupid.
00:09:50
Speaker 3: And I said, you don't understand what's going to happen in the next like five or ten years. I said, your lives are going to become bigger. You're going to you know you my kids have all gotten married in the last life five years and there, I said, And you're gonna have kids, and you're gonna have a different friend group, and you're gonna be going on vacations with these other friends. You're gonna have neighbors, you're gonna have your You're a group of people is growing. Your world is getting bigger. I said, mine will diminish. I said, and you guys are going to think that I'm a burden on you. You're gonna be like, who's you know, We're gonna go on vacation, Who's taking mom?
00:10:21
Speaker 4: Who's going to see moms?
00:10:24
Speaker 3: Like did you have to last time you had mom over for dinner or whatever. I go, I'm doing you a favor. I am finding I'm making life for myself, so I'm not a burden on you. Now you don't get it yet, but I do.
00:10:34
Speaker 1: I know it's wrong.
00:10:35
Speaker 6: I think that's something all four of us have in common, even though some of you are divorced.
00:10:40
Speaker 1: Some of us are widows.
00:10:42
Speaker 6: If I have said it so many times, when when you have a sudden when one has a very sudden, dramatic change in their life, loss of the spouse, divorced, however it happens, you really have to reimagine your life. And we are lucky, I think, because I didn't realize at the time, you know, I when my husband died, I remember, I still do. I spent so much time walking. I was at peace when I was walking and looking, which sounds crazy, but it just.
00:11:14
Speaker 1: It wasn't having a long time. It was looking.
00:11:16
Speaker 6: Out and and and sort of talking to God and looking at trees and birds and things that I'd never done before. But you know, for me, the biggest, the biggest way that I've moved into this chapter two is going on the Golden Bachelor. And and we we they gave us that gift. Even though you know, it didn't work for all of us the way maybe we wanted it.
00:11:39
Speaker 1: To, there was so much more. We got so much more.
00:11:42
Speaker 6: And for us, I have friends now who are going through divorces and they are so lost, and I realized that in some ways do it.
00:11:51
Speaker 1: It's crazy to think of it, but doing.
00:11:53
Speaker 6: A show like The Bachelor helped anchor my life and helped me move forward.
00:11:58
Speaker 5: It's definitely a statement of avery, like to put yourself out there on the show the way that we did was I think, out of all of our comfort zones. But to be able to stand in our life and to say, listen, I'm proud of who I am, where I am, and I'm going to go give this a try. Why not, let's just go give this a try. It was a very brave thing for each and everyone.
00:12:17
Speaker 3: Has it evolved, and I know for us when we were when we started filming and we started meeting each other, I think we came to know that obviously all of us were not going to find love, but we found a community. And then we were the example to everybody else out there watching the show that if you create a community, you can find so much happiness in it. The biggest gift we got from this, I mean we all got, you know, a community like here we are, the four of us are here together, like.
00:12:42
Speaker 1: I have a lot of.
00:12:44
Speaker 6: Couples when you get divorced. I've heard so many of my friends say I've lost my friend group.
00:12:50
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, A couple. We know that, and we have gained That's what I'm saying. We have gained this great community.
00:12:57
Speaker 5: And people who are probably more like us than people who might be in relationship or maybe those couples. I know, for me, a lot of the friends that I had were proximity friends. You know, I might have collected them over time from sitting in the bleachers or being at the sideline of the soccer. Now I'm looking for alignment like we and fun. And I may not love every bit of I mean, I love every bit of everyone, but you know, you just kind of know what people are and there's no judgment. Let's just you know, but you can rebuild what that looks.
00:13:25
Speaker 1: Like all of you.
00:13:37
Speaker 2: Is there anything as you were going through heartbreak and divorces also have heartbreak, anything that you would tell somebody going through a divorce surprisingly that helped you. Is there any one thing you can think.
00:13:52
Speaker 3: Of, like I think all of us because we all had kids and you had this need to be strong and to not implode and not take a day off and just keep moving forward. I got a function. I got to make sure they're okay. I got to make sure I'm a good example to them that we can do this, and that we can't just like crawl into a hole, but every once in a while, let yourself call it in the hole, like to go upstairs. And this is what I did about maybe once a month, and it got less and less. I do it less and less. I still have every well, I have a moment that I need to go and hibernate. But allow yourself just to feel the grief, feel the gad, feel the greef, and you don't have to be strong. And I would kind of say that to them, they be like, Oh, Mom, isn't answering your phone? I could see the text messages A mom doesn't answer your phone?
00:14:38
Speaker 4: Mom, what are you doing?
00:14:38
Speaker 3: Why aren't chanswering your phone? We're trying to call you. Are you upstairs? Oh no, are you having one of your days? I'm like, yeah, maybe when my days leave me alone, but that I need it.
00:14:48
Speaker 5: Sometimes you're gonna either feel it now or feel it later, So go ahead and allow you feeling.
00:14:54
Speaker 6: If I said this, and you have to walk through the grief to get to the other side.
00:14:59
Speaker 4: And we couldn't have gotten here without going.
00:15:03
Speaker 6: Yeah, to get But I also think that I think sometimes we think about how do I get through it, like survive today when I've got some friends going through divorce right now, and I'm trying to encourage them to try things they've never done. Literally, I was one of my friends is going through divorce, and I said to her, why don't you take They were all physical activities. Why don't you take up golf? Why don't you take a wine class? Do we have this wine place in my neighbor? I said, they take a wine, learn about do something, you know, cry, feel, allow yourself to feel the feelings. But there's no time like the present to start building your future.
00:15:50
Speaker 1: And it's funny.
00:15:51
Speaker 2: I have you girls sitting with me, and it's very easy for me to help somebody going through a divorce.
00:15:56
Speaker 1: But when it's your daughter, you know, and I feel like I want to cry right now.
00:16:00
Speaker 2: My daughter calls us seven o'clock this morning. You can't say the same things to your daughter. What do you what do you say well for your daughter? So it's okay to feel bad, it's okay to be angry. You're going to go through different phases. And my biggest word is time. But nobody wants to hear that. And we're going through it. And as she lay there and said, Mom, even though I hate him right now, but she was my best friend. I no longer have somebody next to me in bed that I could share my day with, or something that pissed me off during the day and get it out like I get it.
00:16:39
Speaker 1: But what words do you have for them?
00:16:42
Speaker 4: I love you?
00:16:43
Speaker 6: Yeah, you are a time go through all you are, Cindy.
00:16:52
Speaker 1: What you just said, you're a whole person.
00:16:54
Speaker 5: Without someone else. We spent so much of our time looking for the other person to come alongside of us. And I'll be darned, they're going to be the luckiest person. They're gonna be the luckiest. We have such a fun full life.
00:17:07
Speaker 1: We are whole.
00:17:08
Speaker 2: But they look at it like it's but you know.
00:17:14
Speaker 6: What, Susan one thing that you can't say to her now, but but maybe it'll bring you some comfort as she goes into her chapter two and you know she has children to raise and all that sometimes for me anyway, these horrible experiences that we've all been through and our children go through, that's what gets us the character, the strength, the braver that that's when our real character shines and we become stronger women. For those things, we learn things about ourselves that we wouldn't learn if we didn't have these really hard experiences to go through. So in my way, in my belief, sometimes I really believe for me this chapter two is a gift. It's a horrible way for me to have gotten here. And I hope for your daughter that she will get there and realize that it was a gift, because she's going to come out of it stronger.
00:18:15
Speaker 3: I gave my son. He had a really really bad jet ski accident and he like almost chopped his leg off and it broke his hip and his knee and all this. Anyway, well, he was recovering. He was really struggling, and I found a sign and I just put in his room and it said, smooth waters never make a skilled sailor.
00:18:33
Speaker 1: There, you're so true.
00:18:35
Speaker 3: You do not get these life skills without going through some sh and that's what life is like, what we learned from So like this is her. Perhaps she's become she'll become a skilled tailor. It's going to take some time.
00:18:46
Speaker 2: And for me, when I was going through heartbreak, what I think surprised that helped me is when I got to help somebody else and forgot about my own I wasn't dwelling in my own sorrow who they were.
00:19:01
Speaker 1: Unless selfish chapter, Your.
00:19:04
Speaker 5: Daughter is going to see you differently. She will look back, well what I feel, give an example that you will give her, and you already gave her. She will see what you went through as you dissolved your marriage and how strong you were and how you've rebuilt your life.
00:19:20
Speaker 4: So it's just such a sure it will be a beautiful.
00:19:22
Speaker 5: Bonding moment for the two of you as well.
00:19:24
Speaker 3: I also think that you know, we live in a world of couples, and to uncouple is really hard for her because she probably loses and we all did, and I know we all did because I've talked to you all about it. You lose your couple of friends because now you're a single and they don't invite you to things. The holes don't invite singles to things, especially if you're attractive women.
00:19:43
Speaker 1: Or they invite one and not the other.
00:19:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so you're divided, and so I'm sure she's going to go through that. So, like my best advice to her would be find someone else going through a divorce and like laugh about it, cry about it.
00:19:55
Speaker 1: And talk to them about it and then have.
00:19:58
Speaker 3: A wingman, somebody that's going to go out with you as other couple of the other half of you.
00:20:01
Speaker 6: So so I have a question because this maybe is something that she could think about. What, even though our kids are older, what did we do well? I think about that, What did I do well even though my kids are grown? As I hate saying that I'm a single parent. What things have I taught my children since I've been a single parent.
00:20:28
Speaker 2: And it's funny, Kathy, because I was upset, but I thought you were tougher than this. I trained you to do this or this. My daughter, Yeah, she's not showing strength.
00:20:41
Speaker 1: She was weak.
00:20:42
Speaker 2: She was the victim. And I think that's just a phase that she had to go through, yeah, you know, and then get stronger. But what we've done for our kids, we raised them and we taught them values.
00:20:53
Speaker 6: Yeah, But as a single parent, I'm saying now, like I think I've taught my children some really important lessons since I've been single And the biggest one is there's nothing you can't overcome. There's nothing you can't overcome if you work at it. That I'm showing them that I don't need a man to live a happy, full life. Get the get the toilet repaired, you know, from from literally soup to nuts. And I think, I think that that is something that our children should all learn, whether they're single or married, now that they don't need a man in their life.
00:21:39
Speaker 1: That none of us need anybody.
00:21:41
Speaker 6: But I think, but I think our children when I was married, I was married very young, the thought of being on my own. I think now I've done a really good job of showing my kids, Hey, kids, I was married very young, and you know, you're dad took care of so much in this traditional family. And now my kids look at me and they've said, mom, you are so strong, grave and so strong, and that makes me What I didn't do well, I think was completely fell apart when their dad died as a single parent.
00:22:22
Speaker 1: What do you mean you didn't do that. I couldn't function show enough.
00:22:26
Speaker 6: I couldn't function because I didn't have time to prepare for anything. And so that I was I at that. I'm just saying, well, I'm not saying it's not understandable. I'm saying I wish that I could have. I needed to crawl in that hole. But you were talking about Joan. I wish I could have crawled in in frozen time. Just give me six months to you know, work with this, and then I can come back and be a really good parent. And now now I'm I've come back and I'm the I'm the good grandparent and I'm there for my kids. But I I didn't show my best side.
00:23:03
Speaker 1: We're gonna shift just the little bit. I don't want to know. Did anybody else do something.
00:23:08
Speaker 5: I still have struggles, and I think my kids are so excited about the life that I've rebuilt, but there are parts of me that still wish I had somebody to be with. And I've got three daughters and I would rather them not see how important another person in my life.
00:23:22
Speaker 4: Is to me.
00:23:23
Speaker 1: How were your children when you.
00:23:26
Speaker 5: My youngest was a senior in high school and the other two were in college older.
00:23:31
Speaker 2: They weren't babies and your children when your husband passed, right, they were adults?
00:23:35
Speaker 6: Yes, but it's still there. We wait, Candya, you just said something. You said that you don't want your girls to see that you need a man.
00:23:44
Speaker 1: Did I hear you correctly?
00:23:45
Speaker 4: Need a man?
00:23:46
Speaker 1: Of it?
00:23:46
Speaker 5: I really, my heart, my heart's desire is still to have to find my ads. It still is not like I feel incomplete, but you know, you talked to me a lot. I really would love to find my partner. And for my three daughters, two of them are married and I'm so glad they found someone, and my youngest one is still single. But I don't know that I've done a great job of showing them clearly, I'm standing on my own, but I still wish I had someone. I did it, okay, you you have.
00:24:25
Speaker 3: A lot of love to give and you want to give it, so that's a good thing.
00:24:29
Speaker 6: But I.
00:24:32
Speaker 4: Think though.
00:24:34
Speaker 3: That, like so, we all had the choice that we could kind of choose this, you know, kind of mediocre life and we could not be happy, but we chose happiness. And I think that is a really good example. And we didn't wait for it to happen to happen to us. We didn't expect somebody else to bring us happiness. We went out and found.
00:24:53
Speaker 1: It, and we were hard.
00:24:54
Speaker 3: Like you said, we put ourselves out there in a scary way. And like I think people listening to this podcast are going to say, well, I don't have that opportunity, but do something choose happiness.
00:25:05
Speaker 1: It's the only thing. It's when you.
00:25:08
Speaker 3: You're the only person that's responsible for your own happiness.
00:25:11
Speaker 6: Yes, but I don't even have to get up. We are right, Absolutely, You're right. People might say that, but you don't have to apply and go on the Bachelor or Love Island or anything else. You can get up, and you can. I've never taken a stand up paddle board lesson, you know I'm going to do that today. Or I've never learned to pay play bridge or magen. I mean, you know, if you can say I haven't been to the gym in thirty years, but you know what, I'm going to go and take one class. I think it's it's that's what I want to see women.
00:25:45
Speaker 1: We were lucky.
00:25:46
Speaker 6: But I think our lesson is empowering others feeling they can do it.
00:25:51
Speaker 1: We did it. You gave us.
00:25:53
Speaker 2: Is this ability to share that with people struggling out there right now that don't have that possibility and hearing us say things gives them motivation.
00:26:03
Speaker 5: The show did support us coming through this, and so it is absolutely for us to share with others.
00:26:08
Speaker 4: Dial yourself up.
00:26:09
Speaker 5: You know, we've dimmed our lights over time, and partly because we love our kids. We diminished our light to spread with them and you know, dial it back up.
00:26:18
Speaker 3: We are exactly. I said that when I came off with loldon Bachelor. I said, as you get older, you become more invisible. Don't accept that. And I had accepted it, and I was like, you know, I'll walk up to a host to stand and there'll be other people standing around, and the hostess will ask every other young person or you know, guy in a suit or whatever before they say, you know, do you want a table?
00:26:40
Speaker 1: You don't allow that to happen.
00:26:42
Speaker 3: You don't have to be in business.
00:26:43
Speaker 6: That's that's what I hope people hear it is. I don't care what your chapter two looks like. I don't care how you got there. I mean I care everybody gets there, but everybody has it up yourself, and I don't know you cheated.
00:26:59
Speaker 3: On, it'll be important.
00:27:00
Speaker 1: I think that's really hard.
00:27:01
Speaker 2: You just mentioned that because for anyone listening right now, and they keep attracting men that cheat on, oh gosh, what advice can we give them?
00:27:12
Speaker 1: What advice? And anybody here been cheated on before? Have you ever been cheated?
00:27:18
Speaker 5: Of course, not many, I can tell you that's not very many times, because you know I tend to have a nose for it.
00:27:26
Speaker 1: Yes, you're no, you should keep attracting the same kind of men. What advice would you give them?
00:27:32
Speaker 4: You should look at yourself.
00:27:34
Speaker 3: I agree with you.
00:27:34
Speaker 5: A relationship, and relationship is a mirror, no matter if it's a healthy one, and I love the idea of mirroring for my significant other some things that they do great and some things that they can do better. But it's also a mirror if that relationship falls apart. So it's not just that they're cheating.
00:27:50
Speaker 1: Sounds a little.
00:27:50
Speaker 2: Double standard to me because if they're not choosing that person.
00:27:54
Speaker 1: To cheat on them, but how were that will do it?
00:27:59
Speaker 5: So what is it about me that keeps tracking, that keeps attracting, that it keeps accepting it? Typically, in my opinion my friends who also have gone through a lot more than me, it's typically that you don't feel worthy, that's not having someone's entire attention and love.
00:28:15
Speaker 6: And you will create a narrative you will go to I mean, I've never been cheated on, it's subconscious, but you don't do worthy, so you create a narrative that supports your unworthiness. So this is all I deserve and then it just feeds on itself and so I you know, my thing I always say is you keep doing what you've been doing, You're going to keep getting what you've been getting. So you really, I think, have to look at who you are as a person. What do you do, what do you put up with when you go on a date? What what red flags do you see? And then you say, you.
00:28:54
Speaker 2: Know the old I can change of miss talking about me right now because I still haven't seen that flag.
00:28:59
Speaker 1: I got color blind.
00:29:04
Speaker 4: They I think they're there.
00:29:05
Speaker 3: There is and I'm thinking kind of a little bit of the younger generation, maybe not our generation, that you have to show them that you are valuable, that your that your love and that your.
00:29:16
Speaker 1: Respect, your work.
00:29:17
Speaker 3: They have to earn it and that it's valuable. And I think so much of a relationship a loted for the younger people's physical and they allow a physical relationship before they have the respect that they should demand.
00:29:30
Speaker 1: And there's so many options, so many. Did you feel that way when you were young?
00:29:36
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I felt like you need to show them that you have value that you just don't.
00:29:40
Speaker 6: I think that transcends age. I was very very young, but I happened to choose the guy that had so much integrity.
00:29:48
Speaker 1: It was ridiculous. I I lucked down. I did.
00:29:51
Speaker 6: But I do think cheaters are out there, and I think, by the way, not just men cheat women just and I think the damage that that does to the individual, that takes even more work, because now you don't trust, you don't believe.
00:30:11
Speaker 1: I must not have been good enough. He cheated on me? What's wrong with him?
00:30:18
Speaker 3: And when they should be now building themselves up, they're being torn down time and time again, and it becomes a there's aus circle.
00:30:25
Speaker 4: Do you think once a cheater, always a cheater.
00:30:28
Speaker 1: I don't.
00:30:28
Speaker 2: I don't think so think some people can learn from it. How about could you accept it from a spouse that they made a huge mistake and never do it again?
00:30:38
Speaker 1: You know the promise, that's how they caught up?
00:30:40
Speaker 6: And you can't I think that question people I saw all the time. It's it's not one size fits all. If I had been married for a year and my husband cheated on me, the door would hit.
00:30:54
Speaker 1: His ass so fast.
00:30:56
Speaker 6: But a fifty forty thirty year marriage where you have children, I don't know because I wasn't cheated on, But I'm going to do some real investigations, some really soul searching before I toss his.
00:31:09
Speaker 2: And I think this question is more for Cindy and I since we're a divorce. But did you ever fear your kids would be damaged or messed up because of it?
00:31:17
Speaker 5: I think of it all the time. I actually had a conversation with one of my daughters this last week because I still have feelings about my divorce and my ex husband. I have feelings, and my best friends are my kids, and if I can't openly share with them, then what do I do? And I still know that they are affected differently than me. Sure, So how do you you know? I couldn't imagine them and any feel your feelings.
00:31:40
Speaker 2: Not feeling that fear, you know, just checking in and making sure you're not screwing them up. But you also don't want to screw up the rest of your life. You know it's best for you.
00:31:50
Speaker 1: And also the example that.
00:31:51
Speaker 3: You're setting for them that like, if you accept a marriage that is not good and they see that, oh well, Mom stayed in the marriage, is that what they're going to think? And you don't want them to accept an unhoping marriage in their life. So you're being really hard on yourself. Yeah, and you should give yourself some grace because you actually showed them a really good example that they should not accept a bad marriage and that they should not do that to themselves.
00:32:16
Speaker 6: And I will say my parents were divorced when I was five, and I will tell you as I said, that created so much insecurity in my life.
00:32:26
Speaker 2: And that's what we're saying. So you you felt it as a while. Oh and I picked well. I picked well.
00:32:35
Speaker 4: I thought I did too.
00:32:36
Speaker 1: I picked I was.
00:32:37
Speaker 5: A child of divorce, and I thought I picked him well to avoid that.
00:32:41
Speaker 6: And I got very very young people change. I thought I did pick well and I was lucky.
00:32:47
Speaker 1: I don't. I can't give myself very much credit.
00:32:50
Speaker 6: However, I think as a child of divorce, and by the way, my parents' divorce was violent. It was a horrible divorce, and so I worked that much harder in my marriage to make it work. But I do think it caused insecurity in me. I think my kids. But I had that conversation with my children.
00:33:23
Speaker 2: When you were your parents were going through that divorce, and you're during your lowest moments, what did you do? How did you pour into yourself during that.
00:33:30
Speaker 1: Time when my parents got divorced.
00:33:32
Speaker 6: Yeah, Susan, I was so afraid I was going to get beaten by my mind.
00:33:36
Speaker 1: It was. It was a violent divorce. There was no security in my life.
00:33:41
Speaker 6: And that's why I got married too young. I just happened to you. I needed safety. I needed I needed somebody who I thought would take care of me and I and I did.
00:33:51
Speaker 1: I got that.
00:33:52
Speaker 6: But my children always said, oh, Mom, you got married when you were twenty years old. And I now they understand, they understand why I did, and I don't regret it. There are a lot of things I missed, like you guys experienced that I didn't. But I and our children, my son's divorced and remarried. You know, I think sometimes we blame ourselves too much. We give ourselves too much responsibility, Like we have to be perfect for our children so that they won't get divorced.
00:34:25
Speaker 1: Yeah that doesn't we have nothing to do with that. That's they make.
00:34:30
Speaker 2: But let me get another opinion from your ladies. What do you think about the rise in gray divorce? And I'm sorry, gray divorce much much more happening now than it ever did.
00:34:45
Speaker 3: Very interesting.
00:34:46
Speaker 1: I think, wait, there later later in life and they call it quits.
00:34:49
Speaker 3: I know, because I think we're living longer and people do see a second chapter and they're like, I don't have to be with this person that I'm not happy with them. Maybe I've done it for sixty years or however many years, but like I can stop this vicious circle. And I also think that people, as you get older, and maybe they didn't have this feeling when they were younger, that they are okay being alone. Because if you go into this gray chapter thinking that you're going to find somebody else, you're probably wrong. You're probably not.
00:35:17
Speaker 4: Going to find somebody else.
00:35:17
Speaker 3: Okay, we all know this, right, But if you go into this great chapter and saying, I don't want to be with this person I've been with for all these years and I'm not really happy with anymore, and I'm okay being alone. And I think people are starting to realize that there's a community out there and I can be alone with a lot of people other.
00:35:35
Speaker 1: People that are alone. I mean, it's okay, it's a good group.
00:35:37
Speaker 2: I just want to thank both all three of you for all of your opinions, and are you really going through it?
00:35:43
Speaker 1: And need some advice.
00:35:44
Speaker 2: Feeling lost in your divorce process, Send us an email or leave us a voicemail. All the info is in the show notes. Follow us on Socials. I Do Part two, an iHeartRadio podcast where falling in love is the main objective