Sept. 28, 2026
The Sex Was Bad, But Jerry (Smith) Jerrod Was Great with Jason Lewis... (S6 E2 "Great Sexpectations")
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RSS Feed Jerry (Smith) Jerrod has entered the chat! Jason Lewis joins Kristin to revisit his Sex and the City debut in “Great Sexpectations,” where Carrie and Berger’s relationship is hitting some serious turbulence. Jason weighs in on the expectations, the disastrous sex, and what it was like stepping onto the SATC set for the very first time.
Plus, he shares some of his favorite behind-the-scenes memories from his time on the show!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
00:00:01
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? We have the fantastic Jason Lewis here with us, and he's going to rewatch, as much as we can stay on topic, he's going to rewatch episode 602, Great Sexpectations. And this is when we are introduced to Jared, Jared. Is that your actual Jerry, Jerry, Jerry, Jerry, which is insane.
00:00:25
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:00:27
Speaker 3: I had forgotten that part fully forgotten it.
00:00:29
Speaker 2: I think he wrote a name that he was like, they'll be happy. I changed. Definitely.
00:00:34
Speaker 3: Most definitely. That was so funny.
00:00:36
Speaker 1: What is a couple episodes later that you finally admit that to her because Samantha doesn't know your name for a while, which is also so hysterical and perfect, but that doesn't stop you from very, very fully showing up.
00:00:47
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:00:47
Speaker 1: Yeah. And this episode, directed by Michael Patrick, written by Cindy Shupak, a really, really good episode. We get to meet Jason, who comes into our world, and we'll stay in it through the second movie.
00:00:59
Speaker 2: Yeah. I got to be a part of y'all.
00:01:02
Speaker 3: Amazing. Amazing.
00:01:04
Speaker 2: And you were such a good part.
00:01:06
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you were such a gift to us, because, boy, you really, I mean, it was not easy. That was not an easy part you had coming in at that point in time, too.
00:01:15
Speaker 3: You know? Sorry.
00:01:17
Speaker 2: Thank you.
00:01:17
Speaker 3: Like the thing that we.
00:01:18
Speaker 1: Do, like the technical, you know, this podcast is supposed to be a rewatch podcast, right? And sometimes people come on and they're not really into the rewatch.
00:01:28
Speaker 3: And I have to kind of like, what.
00:01:29
Speaker 1: Do you think about this? What do you think about that? And sometimes people are super into the rewatch. And sometimes the thing that I love is getting another perspective of On these relationship stories, right?
00:01:40
Speaker 2: Sure, sure.
00:01:40
Speaker 1: Because as we said, the writing is a really interesting kind of a litmus test, right?
00:01:46
Speaker 3: Like, what does this make you think of? What did you think of this?
00:01:49
Speaker 1: Like, for instance, I don't know if this is the right episode or not, but I really, really want to hear about what you think about the burger.
00:01:55
Speaker 3: He's just not that into you. Do you remember this?
00:01:59
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:02:00
Speaker 3: What do you think of that?
00:02:02
Speaker 2: I think that that was, that's a really powerful.
00:02:06
Speaker 1: It is.
00:02:07
Speaker 2: Powerful lesson, right? So I, I have a shorthand for that in my own life. I call it alignment. Like, you know, I was just talking with a friend the other night who was bothered by somebody having done something. And I was like, you know, you're, you're so upset with this person for what they've done and how they've behaved. But have you consider maybe you guys just aren't meant to be in a conversation together. Cause I think you're, you're making them wrong for not meeting your expectations, but you know, you don't put a Chevy part in a Ford. And that is what that was saying. It's like, well, I don't think that's how Michael Patrick would have put it.
00:02:48
Speaker 3: But I don't think that's how Michael Patrick would have put it.
00:02:50
Speaker 1: But I do think that there is, and I think there's some story behind this that I need to get to the bottom of where we're There are two writers who both kind of somewhat were a part of this and then wrote this book, you know, turn into a book that then turned into a movie.
00:03:04
Speaker 3: Did you forget this part? It had a whole life of its own.
00:03:08
Speaker 1: But the thing that I love about it at the time that it happens, right? Because Berger is this very different type of guy for Carrie to be with and for us to have around. Like she brings him to meet all of us, you know, and we're all obviously like, you know.
00:03:22
Speaker 2: He was antithetical to her normal choices.
00:03:25
Speaker 3: He really was. He really was.
00:03:26
Speaker 2: And, and.
00:03:27
Speaker 1: In such an interesting way when i look back at like re-watching these i'm like wow i have forgotten.
00:03:32
Speaker 2: How different deconstructed and cerebral.
00:03:35
Speaker 1: Yes and not in any way exciting flashy but but they have the love of words together right so like when i'm watching it i'm thinking a lot about michael patrick lover of words you know god forbid you write like a a bad.
00:03:51
Speaker 3: Sentence to him in a text.
00:03:52
Speaker 2: He'll be like, blah, blah, blah.
00:03:53
Speaker 3: And don't send him an emoji. Does not like that.
00:03:56
Speaker 2: Wants words.
00:03:57
Speaker 3: You don't even think he loves words. Right.
00:04:00
Speaker 1: So they have that thing of like loving words and wanting to talk about what they do, which is, I get that. I totally get that. But then also he, like his apartment is so normal.
00:04:10
Speaker 2: Like, I was looking at an episode and I was like, she's like, I love the color on the walls. And I'm like, it's like, Institutional taupe. 100%.
00:04:23
Speaker 1: Like, how?
00:04:24
Speaker 3: Like, how did she even say that? That's what went through my head. Like, how did she say that?
00:04:30
Speaker 2: I mean, it's bizarre.
00:04:31
Speaker 3: But that's how much she's trying to be like a nice girlfriend. She's like, he's nice.
00:04:35
Speaker 1: He's normal, kind of. But he's intellectual and a writer. I'm going to make it work. And then they have bad sex.
00:04:42
Speaker 3: I was like, what? I don't remember this at all.
00:04:44
Speaker 2: But that was the whole, I think, that whole relationship was like, facing your expectations.
00:04:51
Speaker 1: Yes yes which is great yeah which is great especially because she was with big who was all unobtainable aloof keeping up yes and then.
00:05:01
Speaker 2: She's with self-worth and then definitely it was the guy who held her on a pedestal but she couldn't allow that.
00:05:08
Speaker 1: Definitely and also he was never trusted her right because i mean she did cheat but then he never could trust her but then also from the get-go and this is something i'm kind of struggling with in my listeners have a lot of feelings, which I totally appreciate. Um, they debate in the comments, you know, he, like when they first ate.
00:05:26
Speaker 3: And she first go out, she's smoking.
00:05:27
Speaker 1: Right.
00:05:28
Speaker 3: And he's like, well, I can't date a smoker. And she's like, Oh yeah, no, I quit.
00:05:31
Speaker 1: You know, like it's casual, but then of course it's harder for her to quit. It's like, he never fully wanted who she was.
00:05:40
Speaker 2: Right. And I think that that is again, such an important lesson for all of us. It's like, Don't make people wrong. Don't waste your energy on being right. Find where you fit. Find your people. There's, what, eight and a half billion of us?
00:05:59
Speaker 3: It's true, but sometimes it's hard.
00:06:01
Speaker 2: Oh, it's real hard. Because it starts with knowing yourself and self-acceptance. And if you don't have that, you're pretending you quit smoking cigarettes for some guy.
00:06:11
Speaker 1: That's so true that's so true that's so true but it's also i feel like self self-acceptance can come and go right like you can feel very grounded and then you meet someone and you know all the sparks are there and you want it to you want.
00:06:26
Speaker 2: To well and you know we're just not that linear like you you find some space of of competence and understanding. And then all of a sudden you're in a space that is complete upheaval. Like totally human beings. We don't have one path of understanding. Sometimes that's the growth.
00:06:44
Speaker 3: That's so true. That's so, so true.
00:06:46
Speaker 1: But it's so interesting to see her with Berger. And he's so charming on his own, like in his own world.
00:06:52
Speaker 2: His one-liners are fantastic.
00:06:54
Speaker 3: They're fantastic. They're so great.
00:06:56
Speaker 1: But it's also like, you're just like, oh, it doesn't, it doesn't gel exactly, but she's trying.
00:07:02
Speaker 3: And I love that she's trying.
00:07:03
Speaker 2: Just you even saying that, like, God, the casting was so well done.
00:07:07
Speaker 3: I mean, incredible. That's who we need to have. We need to have our casting.
00:07:12
Speaker 1: You.
00:07:12
Speaker 3: Jennifer Eustace I think at this point is casting right how many times did you have to audition sometimes I've heard some crazy stories.
00:07:21
Speaker 2: Um well I think that you'd said it they had gone through the process for a while yeah yeah yeah um I think three oh that's not bad yeah I auditioned initial audition I think it's gotten down to the wire to like it's like I need this yeah um So I think two auditions and then like, you know, read with her and Michael and John and everybody and Jennifer in the room.
00:07:51
Speaker 1: Right.
00:07:52
Speaker 3: Was it scary?
00:07:53
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:07:54
Speaker 3: Those things are so stressful. When I went to them, I was just like dying.
00:07:58
Speaker 2: I mean, you got a room full of people staring at you going. Are you going to satisfy our needs or disappoint us?
00:08:05
Speaker 3: Definitely, definitely, definitely.
00:08:07
Speaker 1: And they're always just so intense. Did you know the other guys there or did you see any other guys there?
00:08:12
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no.
00:08:14
Speaker 3: No, no other guys were there.
00:08:15
Speaker 2: No, I was pretty much on my own. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:08:20
Speaker 3: That's cool. That's cool. All right, let's talk about the other. So at this point, let's talk about Carrie.
00:08:24
Speaker 2: Carrie.
00:08:26
Speaker 3: So she's just trying to make this burger thing work.
00:08:29
Speaker 1: And I think she's just, there's something vulnerable and adorable about her doing that to me.
00:08:33
Speaker 2: I do too. I mean, I think she was, again, great writing because it's a character trying to figure out her space. And so she'd, you know, lean into excitement and visceral thrill, but maybe not. the healthiest choices. So she's trying to make healthy choices. She's trying to be a grownup with it all. Right. But you know, and that's where, you know, the girls are so great, uh, as characters to play off of each other. Cause you know, you have Samantha going in there, like I, what's the line? She says, screw me.
00:09:06
Speaker 3: Uh, Screw me once, shame on you. Screw me twice, shame on me.
00:09:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, like screw me bad once.
00:09:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, something like that. Yeah, it's really, really funny.
00:09:14
Speaker 4: Dump him. The sex is bad. And that's not the answer at all. But she's saying something true. Like, look, don't try and make. a square peg go into the round hole if this is not meant to be and you're forcing it.
00:09:29
Speaker 1: Right.
00:09:29
Speaker 3: But then, and Charlotte, on the other hand, it's like, no, it was.
00:09:32
Speaker 2: Just your first try.
00:09:33
Speaker 3: You've got to work at it, you know? And I'm like, no, don't work at it.
00:09:38
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
00:09:39
Speaker 3: And then Miranda's like, just seems to be in the middle of like, well, you know.
00:09:42
Speaker 2: I'm okay by myself. Well, Miranda's in that pure foreboding joy at that point. I would rather watch TiVo than feel my feelings.
00:09:52
Speaker 1: Well, because she just had a baby and she's by herself, right? And when I was watching, yeah, the Steve things not worked out. And then Steve's having sex. Steve-O and the T-Vo. I really, do you remember the T-Vo?
00:10:04
Speaker 2: Uh, was it Jim and something in Jules? Yeah. Oh, do I remember TiVo itself?
00:10:11
Speaker 3: It was so great. Wasn't it?
00:10:13
Speaker 2: It was our first ability to stream.
00:10:15
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:10:15
Speaker 2: That's where binge watching had its birth.
00:10:18
Speaker 5: Totally.
00:10:19
Speaker 1: Totally.
00:10:19
Speaker 3: But it's also just such a funny.
00:10:22
Speaker 2: Cause we, you know, being actors, we got those like, Early access to it. They sent it to us. I was like, ooh.
00:10:28
Speaker 1: I know, right?
00:10:29
Speaker 3: We were really, really into it. And then when I heard the little sound on the show, I was like, I remember the TiVo. We had such a positive relationship with the TiVo, you know? Like, it was real.
00:10:40
Speaker 2: There's generations watching this. It's like a VCR. I know.
00:10:43
Speaker 1: I know.
00:10:44
Speaker 3: That was so crazy.
00:10:45
Speaker 1: It's so crazy, the importance it had and then, like, how rapidly technology changed to the point where it's unrecognizable now.
00:10:53
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean? No, it's ubiquitous.
00:10:55
Speaker 3: Everyone's like, what?
00:10:55
Speaker 2: The what? Downloadstore.com.
00:10:57
Speaker 1: Right.
00:10:58
Speaker 2: On demand, whatever you want. Right. Like I'm disappointed when they only release an episode.
00:11:02
Speaker 3: What do you mean you only release one episode?
00:11:04
Speaker 1: I know.
00:11:04
Speaker 2: I got to wait? I don't wait.
00:11:07
Speaker 1: I know it's interesting because I was thinking about that when I fell down this hole because you were coming and I wanted to watch some and it just takes you over that you can watch them now.
00:11:16
Speaker 3: But back in the day, that wasn't possible.
00:11:18
Speaker 1: And I was thinking about how I do feel like if we had been able to have them all available to us back then, I feel like it would have shifted the writing in terms of, especially like Mr.
00:11:29
Speaker 5: Big, right?
00:11:31
Speaker 3: Because he's kind of unpalatable. If you have a bunch of him in the early days, like it's like, ew, ick, right?
00:11:37
Speaker 1: But because we had it spaced out, you kind of could like, in some ways digest what had happened, almost.
00:11:47
Speaker 2: Like the characters. I think there's good and bad to both. Because what you're saying, like it, It gave more room for discovery for the competent writers who were writing true and honest. Whereas I also think, God, I'm forgetting the name of the series, but it was this offshoot series from Game of Thrones that just.
00:12:11
Speaker 3: The one that's on now?
00:12:12
Speaker 2: Is it called- Not the House of Dragons. Oh, okay. It's something like The Good Knight.
00:12:17
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, he's great.
00:12:18
Speaker 2: That dude, yeah. And it was so well done start to finish. So it was written like a long form movie. Yeah. Where every scene in it. And so it's not, you don't have this arbitrary fluff that sometimes episodic.
00:12:33
Speaker 3: Television would get back in the day.
00:12:34
Speaker 5: Definitely, yes.
00:12:35
Speaker 3: Well put.
00:12:35
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:12:36
Speaker 1: But I feel like that's what's interesting about our show too. At the time, I felt like there was arbitrary fluff. But when I look back on it, I do not feel like there's arbitrary fluff.
00:12:47
Speaker 2: Again, good writing always stayed true to character and character arc. It's true. There's always sensational entertainment, which good writing should have.
00:12:56
Speaker 1: But....
00:12:59
Speaker 2: It never strayed just to do something for, no, that's true. May said the, something about special effects. And I think it applies to good storytelling that, you know, special effects while viscerally entertaining are soon forgotten.
00:13:13
Speaker 3: So true.
00:13:13
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:13:21
Speaker 1: I'm going to say that my Hyundai hot take for great expectations, episode 602, It's just going to have to be Jason Lewis showing up on our screens as Smith Jared, originally known as Jerry Jared, which is really funny. But he just had such a unique look. He's obviously so beautiful. He's playing a waiter, which is so funny. And he's just got this super special twinkle in his eye. And little did we know that he was going to stay with us in the world of Sex and the City all the way through both movies. And... so beautifully portrays Smith and everything that he goes through with Samantha. So I'm just going to have to say that he is my Hyundai hot take, celebrating iconic moments, bold moves, and unforgettable style, just like Hyundai. If you had to think, like, what are your most vivid memories from playing Smith Jarrett?
00:14:26
Speaker 2: You mean fantastic? Like as Jason being on a set.
00:14:30
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:14:31
Speaker 2: First one that pops to mind, getting to hang out and have coffee with Mikkel Baryshnikoff.
00:14:38
Speaker 3: Good one. In Paris? Wait, not in Paris. In New York.
00:14:41
Speaker 2: No, no, in New York. Got it. That's cool.
00:14:44
Speaker 3: Silver Cup?
00:14:45
Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:14:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, when he was like, what a lovely man.
00:14:49
Speaker 3: Definitely.
00:14:50
Speaker 2: And for me personally, I remember when I was a kid, And, you know, at that time we were so in the Cold War of it all. And media was more, you know, kind of linear and not 24-7. And all I thought of Russia as was this gray, gray place. And when he escaped the bus and stayed and defected, he changed my worldview because I remember seeing his performances and stuff and like seeing him in white nights. And I was like, as a young child's, uh, imagination going, but they're all great people. Here's this vibrant, colorful, alive man. And so it, it shifted. And I always like, like, Weirdly, because I wasn't that into Belay or anything, but he struck me, like culturally struck me as a kid.
00:15:58
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Huge.
00:15:58
Speaker 2: He's incredibly important. He was like a childhood hero. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so then getting to meet him, and he couldn't have been more lovely.
00:16:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
00:16:05
Speaker 2: He was lovely. He was such a nice man.
00:16:07
Speaker 3: Okay, so that stands out.
00:16:09
Speaker 2: What else?
00:16:09
Speaker 3: Anything else?
00:16:11
Speaker 2: Honestly, one of my favorite things about being in the show was New York.
00:16:19
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:16:19
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:16:20
Speaker 2: I have always, same thing since childhood, I've always had a love of New York from films and romanticized it. The unprecedented access to just be and take over blocks. Oh, filming in New York.
00:16:39
Speaker 3: Incredible.
00:16:40
Speaker 2: And so well loved.
00:16:42
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:16:43
Speaker 2: Because- It was a New York show. And, you know, like I remember I wasn't even in the episode, but you guys were shooting at the garden.
00:16:54
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:16:55
Speaker 2: And so I would just show up set to shoot because I was like, I mean, I'm just going to shoot some baskets in the garden, you know.
00:17:04
Speaker 3: Wow, I wonder if we have pictures of that.
00:17:05
Speaker 1: We haven't gotten to that part yet, but I mean, because the Knicks just went in, right?
00:17:09
Speaker 2: I doubt it, because you guys were off shooting.
00:17:11
Speaker 3: I was just there.
00:17:12
Speaker 2: I was taking.
00:17:12
Speaker 3: Advantage of the fact that you were using it as a location.
00:17:15
Speaker 1: Charlotte is so adorably trying to be a Jew. It's the cutest thing in the world. Of course, I remember this, but it's so fun to watch it. Like, I was surprised. I was so pleasantly surprised. And I think this episode is directed by David Frankel. Do you remember Frankel, who did Devil's Worst Product?
00:17:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. It was awesome. He is.
00:17:34
Speaker 3: He's such a great director. Such a great director and really thoughtful and interesting.
00:17:39
Speaker 2: Just cool energy.
00:17:40
Speaker 3: Cool energy.
00:17:41
Speaker 2: I agree.
00:17:41
Speaker 3: I agree.
00:17:42
Speaker 2: The one.
00:17:43
Speaker 1: The one thing I have to say, this is not the episode where I do the mikvah, but that's coming, right? Because at this point, I'm just trying to get the rabbis to talk to me.
00:17:51
Speaker 3: To open the door.
00:17:52
Speaker 1: Right.
00:17:53
Speaker 3: Which I fully enjoyed that. It was really fun.
00:17:55
Speaker 1: I remember filming that. I'm wearing, we were really stressed about what I was going to wear. So I'm wearing like very kind of like super ladylike. It was the Marc Jacobs at Louis Vuitton phase. And I had gone shopping and was like brought my things to Pat. So I'm wearing some of my own clothes because it was like, it was like when you're really loving the clothes that they're making.
00:18:17
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
00:18:18
Speaker 1: So I was like, I'm going to buy all these things. So I have a lot of those clothes at my house.
00:18:22
Speaker 2: Oh, nice.
00:18:22
Speaker 1: I know.
00:18:23
Speaker 3: It's good.
00:18:23
Speaker 2: It's good.
00:18:23
Speaker 3: I don't really wear them, but there they are. If, if I want them.
00:18:27
Speaker 1: And they're, they're perfect because they're very waspy looking, but also like, so put.
00:18:32
Speaker 2: Together, you know, sexy wasp, sexy librarian.
00:18:36
Speaker 3: Thank you, Jason. That's what Pat liked, the sexy librarian.
00:18:40
Speaker 2: Definitely. Definitely.
00:18:41
Speaker 1: But it's funny too, because like, I don't know if it's because of New York, but like there's that one scene. I don't know if it's this episode where I put the, um, the, um, what's it called when you put it on your door? Oh, the, uh, it's not a, it's not a mitzvah or a mikvah, but it's a, it's a, um, It's going.
00:18:59
Speaker 3: To come to me. I'm putting it on my door and my neighbor comes out and I'm like, I'm a Jew now.
00:19:04
Speaker 2: Mazuza.
00:19:05
Speaker 3: Mazuza. I knew it was an M. Thank you so much, Houston. Mazuza.
00:19:09
Speaker 1: I'm putting the Mazuza up and my neighbor comes out. But it's so funny because like, we're trying to portray waspy New York, but it's very not that different from Jewish New York.
00:19:18
Speaker 3: Do you know what I'm saying? Like, it's so interesting to me, you know?
00:19:21
Speaker 2: Again, I said earlier, I think there's more that binds us than separates us. I, I mean, I love Jewish New York, especially old Jewish New York.
00:19:33
Speaker 3: Right, like when I'm in Zabar's, do you remember that? When I'm in Zabar's, it's awesome. You can see why she.
00:19:39
Speaker 2: Wants to do it. I think it's wonderful. Again, not an arbitrary character decision because here's this person that, thinks life has to be super packaged right and i remember like even when you finally do like you show up but they're they're having their seder.
00:20:00
Speaker 3: Yes and i know.
00:20:03
Speaker 2: And he's like Quit trying so hard. Right. And so like even that became a backdrop to your character's growth because it was about acceptance and being a part of something instead of trying to make everything fit into your perfect vision of the world. Definitely.
00:20:21
Speaker 3: That's what she so desperately wants.
00:20:23
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:20:24
Speaker 3: She wants to be a part of things and she wants this family.
00:20:27
Speaker 1: Right.
00:20:27
Speaker 3: So she's seeing this, you know, three generations.
00:20:30
Speaker 2: That was a point where your character was really evolving too. Cause you, you were in like, that was where you were as kind of the voice of, of growth and maturity for Carrie's character with Berger going, you know, Hey, look, I didn't know that love was going to come the way it came, but it came.
00:20:53
Speaker 3: Right, right, right.
00:20:54
Speaker 2: And I am recognizing that. Right, that was really good. So that was a big step for your.
00:20:58
Speaker 3: Character at that point. Definitely, definitely really good. Definitely really good.
00:21:02
Speaker 1: I love the whole arc of Charlotte, obviously, over time, I love. But this particular time, I remember the part when I'm divorcing Trey and.
00:21:13
Speaker 3: I meet Harry and I'm just like, what? You know, and Evan is so great. Like, he's so... funny with very little writing in the beginning. You know what I mean?
00:21:22
Speaker 1: And coming up is the scene where I finally do Seder and he wants to watch the Mets.
00:21:28
Speaker 3: I don't know if you remember this.
00:21:29
Speaker 1: I remember that a lot because I was super nervous because I had to do the whole, I had to.
00:21:33
Speaker 3: You know, speak in Hebrew and it's really hard.
00:21:36
Speaker 1: And they had gotten all these advisors and the advisors disagreed on some pronunciation.
00:21:42
Speaker 3: Which really messed me up so badly. I was like, oh, I have two voices in my head telling me different pronunciation. Oh my God. Cause I don't, I don't know.
00:21:51
Speaker 1: I am very much, you know, a waspy person, but it was fun to try to do it and to try to do it in the way that Charlotte would do it, which is with a reverence, you know, like she's trying.
00:22:02
Speaker 2: To do her absolute best. Charlotte's a good girl. Yes.
00:22:06
Speaker 1: And she really wants to do it, you know, well, and then Harry wants to watch the Mets and she's like, you don't understand how much I've tried, you know, which is her whole personality right there.
00:22:18
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? Which is good writing again, right? But then of course, you know, and they break up, right? And then she has to go through that, which is great, but I'm not even there yet. But it was really fun for me.
00:22:29
Speaker 1: To watch because, you know, it's better than I remembered it, which is a really nice surprise.
00:22:37
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I think that's, also in the moment you're, you know, you're sitting there, there's a certain amount of survival going on, you know, you're fighting for identity and character identity and, you know, just living your life, like being able to take it in from a non-pressure place.
00:22:56
Speaker 1: Well, so like, there's a, for me always with my work, I have a level of panic about it at the time.
00:23:02
Speaker 3: Right.
00:23:03
Speaker 1: And a level of nerves and a level of, you know, like, having the kind of Charlotte ideal of, like, I have an idea of what I want to do, which I think is true for all of us, right? You have an idea of what you want to do, and did I reach that or did I not reach that?
00:23:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, the aspirational artist.
00:23:17
Speaker 3: Right, I'm so critical, you know, at the time, right?
00:23:19
Speaker 1: So, like, I would remember rushing home to watch it before it was on the air, but then I would just nitpick myself, but then I would love everyone else.
00:23:26
Speaker 3: And now I could just love all of it.
00:23:28
Speaker 1: Enjoy it.
00:23:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's great.
00:23:30
Speaker 2: It's so great. You're not looking at it through the lens of your criticisms, but just.
00:23:33
Speaker 3: Looking at it. Right, and there's nothing I can do now anyway, which is fantastic. It's so great.
00:23:39
Speaker 1: And it's great to think that we made that together and that everyone was participating and bringing their stuff or their experience. I feel like everyone is just so present.
00:23:54
Speaker 2: Yes. I think everyone understood the level of importance. And everyone, all the way down through the crew. Yeah, yeah.
00:24:03
Speaker 3: Amazing.
00:24:04
Speaker 2: Amazing.
00:24:05
Speaker 3: So amazing.
00:24:06
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:24:17
Speaker 1: That's what I think was also great about your presence showing up. Because again, I just don't think it was that easy.
00:24:24
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? But you brought so much like you're super present. Didn't you think?
00:24:32
Speaker 2: I mean, like you said.
00:24:33
Speaker 3: When you watch it, what do you think?
00:24:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually think I did a pretty damn good job.
00:24:39
Speaker 3: You really did. You really, really did. I'm glad you feel that way.
00:24:42
Speaker 1: Because you're, from the first time at the restaurant, you're fully there.
00:24:47
Speaker 2: But again, like, it's there. It was there to be discovered. Yeah, like, you know, he's in on the game.
00:24:54
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:24:55
Speaker 2: But that's also... I think it was in the writing. Yes, I performed it, but I think it was in the writing. He's in on the game, but that's inherent to... It's why it was such a good introduction.
00:25:09
Speaker 3: Yes.
00:25:09
Speaker 2: In the sense of if he's going to be this catalyst of acceptance for her, then he doesn't... He's in on it, but he's not judging it.
00:25:21
Speaker 1: No.
00:25:21
Speaker 2: He's not sitting there and going.
00:25:24
Speaker 5: jackasses he's like but but and i love that line you know it was like yeah you know you didn't have because he there's a certain humor and he's observing and like enjoying the like.
00:25:36
Speaker 2: I was ready to go sleep with you like last Tuesday. We're good lady. Definitely.
00:25:42
Speaker 1: Definitely. But that whole, the twinkle that you bring, that's just you, right? Like the writing's there and the writing is great, but there's a twinkle. There's a, like a, you're welcome. It's good.
00:25:52
Speaker 3: It's really good. It's really good. It's so nice.
00:25:54
Speaker 1: It's so nice to be able to, to look at our past work and revel in it, you know, and what we created and then it still lives.
00:26:00
Speaker 3: It's great to be part of that.
00:26:02
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't actually do that either. I'm, Me neither.
00:26:06
Speaker 3: Until I did this.
00:26:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm too self-critical.
00:26:08
Speaker 3: Me too. And I also feel like I don't want to live in the past. Yeah.
00:26:12
Speaker 1: And definitely at the time I was self-critical, but now after all this time.
00:26:16
Speaker 2: Space just to breathe it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:26:19
Speaker 1: And also I do feel like there's stuff to be learned from the past. not necessarily so much like I did. I learned a lot watching myself at the beginning of the show. I see a lot of things that were going on with me personally and trying to fit in and trying to be enough. And, you know, I feel, I feel for her, like, you know, I have so much compassion for her when I look at her, but by this point, because Michael and I have really found this partnership in terms of writing for Charlotte and what he wants me to do and, what he believes I can do.
00:26:48
Speaker 3: You know, sometimes you need that kind of mentorship.
00:26:51
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
00:26:51
Speaker 5: Yeah.
00:26:52
Speaker 3: And he really gave it to me.
00:26:53
Speaker 2: You're saying that he would put your life on the page?
00:26:55
Speaker 3: No, he didn't.
00:26:56
Speaker 2: No, he didn't. He didn't.
00:26:57
Speaker 1: I mean, really, I think he was putting other writers on the page more so than my life.
00:27:02
Speaker 3: But I think he.
00:27:03
Speaker 1: Because there wasn't a lot that matched. You know, I didn't want to get married.
00:27:07
Speaker 3: I'm not married. I didn't get married. I did adopt a child. I didn't convert to Judaism. There's so many differences.
00:27:13
Speaker 1: But I think that what Michael was so good at and still is so good at, energetically, emotionally.
00:27:20
Speaker 3: He gets you.
00:27:21
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:27:22
Speaker 3: And then he writes you. space that you can yeah.
00:27:26
Speaker 1: Do you know what i'm saying so all the specifics might be different yeah but he knows what you can fill it.
00:27:30
Speaker 2: With absolutely yes yeah he's very good at that.
00:27:34
Speaker 6: Super super good at that like i don't even know we should come up with the word for that but yeah it's it's a a mix of different talents all rolled into one i think right but some of the writers too like amy harris remember amy harris incredible and like i remember when she came she was darren's assistant But Michael Patrick, she said, both Darren definitely believed in her.
00:27:55
Speaker 1: And then Michael Patrick really said to her, like, I believe in you. You're going to write your own script. It's going to be amazing.
00:28:00
Speaker 3: And she was like, oh my God, oh my God.
00:28:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, ultimately is intense and critical of the work. Not critical in like tearing it down way, but you know, just very empowering man. Very empowering man.
00:28:15
Speaker 1: And the thing that's interesting is that sometimes people see him, and I think that the job of a showrunner is so hard right because you're having to do 20 different jobs you've got to have the vision yeah you know the vision alone is huge right and people see him as somehow like um too powerful somehow like sometimes i'll get comments from our listeners and stuff about like.
00:28:37
Speaker 3: Michael being too powerful but no show is good without that yeah i mean.
00:28:42
Speaker 2: I you could criticize any great leader and that again, the man in the arena, so easy, but the cohesiveness of that was because he put that much of himself into it. Definitely. And not an easy job at all. No. To make sure that all of these different elements are coming to a singularity because it's, you know, the fact that he even was writing episodes singularly, I know. Like, where do you find the time? Not just overseeing a writer's room, but taking the helm of certain episodes and then directing and producing. That's a lot of hats he was wearing.
00:29:22
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
00:29:22
Speaker 2: It's crazy. That's also, I think, why. And you see it. You see when he took over. that there is a greater cohesion for the show.
00:29:30
Speaker 1: And I think when you took over is when we really started leaning into the long story arcs and that's what I think we did so well, as well as being funny, which is very hard to do both.
00:29:42
Speaker 2: Super easy to do sensational, really hard to move an audience.
00:29:46
Speaker 3: Right, right, right, right, right. And that's why it was so great to be a part of it. You're going to have to come back and give us full progress report.
00:29:53
Speaker 1: I will.
00:29:55
Speaker 2: This is the first time I really ever talked about it.
00:29:57
Speaker 3: Oh, my God. Uh-oh, uh-oh. Jason.
00:30:00
Speaker 1: What?
00:30:00
Speaker 3: Are you a Charlotte?
00:30:02
Speaker 2: Am I a Charlotte? Interesting.
00:30:04
Speaker 3: Isn't it? I don't know what you're going to say.
00:30:07
Speaker 2: I would say probably now more than ever. Oh. And I'll tell you another thing. I think that my character and your character are actually very similar.
00:30:20
Speaker 3: Interesting.
00:30:21
Speaker 2: Because I think what makes Charlotte Charlotte is the sincerity and the hope.
00:30:29
Speaker 3: Yes.
00:30:30
Speaker 2: Yes, there's other things. There's character foibles, the perfectionism and stuff. But ultimately, the core of her is the hope and the sincere way that she approaches life. And I think I do that better than I've probably ever done. Nice. Yeah. That's so good.
00:30:50
Speaker 3: That's so good.
00:30:51
Speaker 2: I love it.
00:30:52
Speaker 3: Would you have said historically that you were someone else?
00:30:55
Speaker 2: Probably not. I, you know, played at the ideas that I better hold now. So, yeah, I think I was maybe more of a Carrie.
00:31:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would have said Carrie.
00:31:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I was more... The analyst. Yeah, you were.
00:31:14
Speaker 3: You always had a lot of, you were watching everybody.
00:31:16
Speaker 2: And I thought that, you know, like I used to think that you could reason your way into everything. And as I've gotten older, acceptance and understanding and compassion and empathy are just more developed. And so I hope they will be with anybody. Of course.
00:31:31
Speaker 3: Let's all try to do that.
00:31:32
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Let's all try and be a little nicer to each other. So yeah, I think I was probably more of a Carrie when I was younger. That's cool. And definitely more of a Charlotte now.
00:31:40
Speaker 3: I love it. I love it.
00:31:42
Speaker 1: I mean, Charlotte and Costa Rica, that would be a good growth for Charlotte.
00:31:47
Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean? It would be awesome.
00:31:48
Speaker 2: Just don't drink the water, baby. I love it.
00:31:52
Speaker 3: Thank you, Jason.
00:31:52
Speaker 2: Pleasure.
00:31:53
Speaker 1: Thank you.
00:31:53
Speaker 3: Thanks for being with us.
00:31:54
Speaker 2: That was fun, fun, fun.
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? We have the fantastic Jason Lewis here with us, and he's going to rewatch, as much as we can stay on topic, he's going to rewatch episode 602, Great Sexpectations. And this is when we are introduced to Jared, Jared. Is that your actual Jerry, Jerry, Jerry, Jerry, which is insane.
00:00:25
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:00:27
Speaker 3: I had forgotten that part fully forgotten it.
00:00:29
Speaker 2: I think he wrote a name that he was like, they'll be happy. I changed. Definitely.
00:00:34
Speaker 3: Most definitely. That was so funny.
00:00:36
Speaker 1: What is a couple episodes later that you finally admit that to her because Samantha doesn't know your name for a while, which is also so hysterical and perfect, but that doesn't stop you from very, very fully showing up.
00:00:47
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:00:47
Speaker 1: Yeah. And this episode, directed by Michael Patrick, written by Cindy Shupak, a really, really good episode. We get to meet Jason, who comes into our world, and we'll stay in it through the second movie.
00:00:59
Speaker 2: Yeah. I got to be a part of y'all.
00:01:02
Speaker 3: Amazing. Amazing.
00:01:04
Speaker 2: And you were such a good part.
00:01:06
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you were such a gift to us, because, boy, you really, I mean, it was not easy. That was not an easy part you had coming in at that point in time, too.
00:01:15
Speaker 3: You know? Sorry.
00:01:17
Speaker 2: Thank you.
00:01:17
Speaker 3: Like the thing that we.
00:01:18
Speaker 1: Do, like the technical, you know, this podcast is supposed to be a rewatch podcast, right? And sometimes people come on and they're not really into the rewatch.
00:01:28
Speaker 3: And I have to kind of like, what.
00:01:29
Speaker 1: Do you think about this? What do you think about that? And sometimes people are super into the rewatch. And sometimes the thing that I love is getting another perspective of On these relationship stories, right?
00:01:40
Speaker 2: Sure, sure.
00:01:40
Speaker 1: Because as we said, the writing is a really interesting kind of a litmus test, right?
00:01:46
Speaker 3: Like, what does this make you think of? What did you think of this?
00:01:49
Speaker 1: Like, for instance, I don't know if this is the right episode or not, but I really, really want to hear about what you think about the burger.
00:01:55
Speaker 3: He's just not that into you. Do you remember this?
00:01:59
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:02:00
Speaker 3: What do you think of that?
00:02:02
Speaker 2: I think that that was, that's a really powerful.
00:02:06
Speaker 1: It is.
00:02:07
Speaker 2: Powerful lesson, right? So I, I have a shorthand for that in my own life. I call it alignment. Like, you know, I was just talking with a friend the other night who was bothered by somebody having done something. And I was like, you know, you're, you're so upset with this person for what they've done and how they've behaved. But have you consider maybe you guys just aren't meant to be in a conversation together. Cause I think you're, you're making them wrong for not meeting your expectations, but you know, you don't put a Chevy part in a Ford. And that is what that was saying. It's like, well, I don't think that's how Michael Patrick would have put it.
00:02:48
Speaker 3: But I don't think that's how Michael Patrick would have put it.
00:02:50
Speaker 1: But I do think that there is, and I think there's some story behind this that I need to get to the bottom of where we're There are two writers who both kind of somewhat were a part of this and then wrote this book, you know, turn into a book that then turned into a movie.
00:03:04
Speaker 3: Did you forget this part? It had a whole life of its own.
00:03:08
Speaker 1: But the thing that I love about it at the time that it happens, right? Because Berger is this very different type of guy for Carrie to be with and for us to have around. Like she brings him to meet all of us, you know, and we're all obviously like, you know.
00:03:22
Speaker 2: He was antithetical to her normal choices.
00:03:25
Speaker 3: He really was. He really was.
00:03:26
Speaker 2: And, and.
00:03:27
Speaker 1: In such an interesting way when i look back at like re-watching these i'm like wow i have forgotten.
00:03:32
Speaker 2: How different deconstructed and cerebral.
00:03:35
Speaker 1: Yes and not in any way exciting flashy but but they have the love of words together right so like when i'm watching it i'm thinking a lot about michael patrick lover of words you know god forbid you write like a a bad.
00:03:51
Speaker 3: Sentence to him in a text.
00:03:52
Speaker 2: He'll be like, blah, blah, blah.
00:03:53
Speaker 3: And don't send him an emoji. Does not like that.
00:03:56
Speaker 2: Wants words.
00:03:57
Speaker 3: You don't even think he loves words. Right.
00:04:00
Speaker 1: So they have that thing of like loving words and wanting to talk about what they do, which is, I get that. I totally get that. But then also he, like his apartment is so normal.
00:04:10
Speaker 2: Like, I was looking at an episode and I was like, she's like, I love the color on the walls. And I'm like, it's like, Institutional taupe. 100%.
00:04:23
Speaker 1: Like, how?
00:04:24
Speaker 3: Like, how did she even say that? That's what went through my head. Like, how did she say that?
00:04:30
Speaker 2: I mean, it's bizarre.
00:04:31
Speaker 3: But that's how much she's trying to be like a nice girlfriend. She's like, he's nice.
00:04:35
Speaker 1: He's normal, kind of. But he's intellectual and a writer. I'm going to make it work. And then they have bad sex.
00:04:42
Speaker 3: I was like, what? I don't remember this at all.
00:04:44
Speaker 2: But that was the whole, I think, that whole relationship was like, facing your expectations.
00:04:51
Speaker 1: Yes yes which is great yeah which is great especially because she was with big who was all unobtainable aloof keeping up yes and then.
00:05:01
Speaker 2: She's with self-worth and then definitely it was the guy who held her on a pedestal but she couldn't allow that.
00:05:08
Speaker 1: Definitely and also he was never trusted her right because i mean she did cheat but then he never could trust her but then also from the get-go and this is something i'm kind of struggling with in my listeners have a lot of feelings, which I totally appreciate. Um, they debate in the comments, you know, he, like when they first ate.
00:05:26
Speaker 3: And she first go out, she's smoking.
00:05:27
Speaker 1: Right.
00:05:28
Speaker 3: And he's like, well, I can't date a smoker. And she's like, Oh yeah, no, I quit.
00:05:31
Speaker 1: You know, like it's casual, but then of course it's harder for her to quit. It's like, he never fully wanted who she was.
00:05:40
Speaker 2: Right. And I think that that is again, such an important lesson for all of us. It's like, Don't make people wrong. Don't waste your energy on being right. Find where you fit. Find your people. There's, what, eight and a half billion of us?
00:05:59
Speaker 3: It's true, but sometimes it's hard.
00:06:01
Speaker 2: Oh, it's real hard. Because it starts with knowing yourself and self-acceptance. And if you don't have that, you're pretending you quit smoking cigarettes for some guy.
00:06:11
Speaker 1: That's so true that's so true that's so true but it's also i feel like self self-acceptance can come and go right like you can feel very grounded and then you meet someone and you know all the sparks are there and you want it to you want.
00:06:26
Speaker 2: To well and you know we're just not that linear like you you find some space of of competence and understanding. And then all of a sudden you're in a space that is complete upheaval. Like totally human beings. We don't have one path of understanding. Sometimes that's the growth.
00:06:44
Speaker 3: That's so true. That's so, so true.
00:06:46
Speaker 1: But it's so interesting to see her with Berger. And he's so charming on his own, like in his own world.
00:06:52
Speaker 2: His one-liners are fantastic.
00:06:54
Speaker 3: They're fantastic. They're so great.
00:06:56
Speaker 1: But it's also like, you're just like, oh, it doesn't, it doesn't gel exactly, but she's trying.
00:07:02
Speaker 3: And I love that she's trying.
00:07:03
Speaker 2: Just you even saying that, like, God, the casting was so well done.
00:07:07
Speaker 3: I mean, incredible. That's who we need to have. We need to have our casting.
00:07:12
Speaker 1: You.
00:07:12
Speaker 3: Jennifer Eustace I think at this point is casting right how many times did you have to audition sometimes I've heard some crazy stories.
00:07:21
Speaker 2: Um well I think that you'd said it they had gone through the process for a while yeah yeah yeah um I think three oh that's not bad yeah I auditioned initial audition I think it's gotten down to the wire to like it's like I need this yeah um So I think two auditions and then like, you know, read with her and Michael and John and everybody and Jennifer in the room.
00:07:51
Speaker 1: Right.
00:07:52
Speaker 3: Was it scary?
00:07:53
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:07:54
Speaker 3: Those things are so stressful. When I went to them, I was just like dying.
00:07:58
Speaker 2: I mean, you got a room full of people staring at you going. Are you going to satisfy our needs or disappoint us?
00:08:05
Speaker 3: Definitely, definitely, definitely.
00:08:07
Speaker 1: And they're always just so intense. Did you know the other guys there or did you see any other guys there?
00:08:12
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no.
00:08:14
Speaker 3: No, no other guys were there.
00:08:15
Speaker 2: No, I was pretty much on my own. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:08:20
Speaker 3: That's cool. That's cool. All right, let's talk about the other. So at this point, let's talk about Carrie.
00:08:24
Speaker 2: Carrie.
00:08:26
Speaker 3: So she's just trying to make this burger thing work.
00:08:29
Speaker 1: And I think she's just, there's something vulnerable and adorable about her doing that to me.
00:08:33
Speaker 2: I do too. I mean, I think she was, again, great writing because it's a character trying to figure out her space. And so she'd, you know, lean into excitement and visceral thrill, but maybe not. the healthiest choices. So she's trying to make healthy choices. She's trying to be a grownup with it all. Right. But you know, and that's where, you know, the girls are so great, uh, as characters to play off of each other. Cause you know, you have Samantha going in there, like I, what's the line? She says, screw me.
00:09:06
Speaker 3: Uh, Screw me once, shame on you. Screw me twice, shame on me.
00:09:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, like screw me bad once.
00:09:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, something like that. Yeah, it's really, really funny.
00:09:14
Speaker 4: Dump him. The sex is bad. And that's not the answer at all. But she's saying something true. Like, look, don't try and make. a square peg go into the round hole if this is not meant to be and you're forcing it.
00:09:29
Speaker 1: Right.
00:09:29
Speaker 3: But then, and Charlotte, on the other hand, it's like, no, it was.
00:09:32
Speaker 2: Just your first try.
00:09:33
Speaker 3: You've got to work at it, you know? And I'm like, no, don't work at it.
00:09:38
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
00:09:39
Speaker 3: And then Miranda's like, just seems to be in the middle of like, well, you know.
00:09:42
Speaker 2: I'm okay by myself. Well, Miranda's in that pure foreboding joy at that point. I would rather watch TiVo than feel my feelings.
00:09:52
Speaker 1: Well, because she just had a baby and she's by herself, right? And when I was watching, yeah, the Steve things not worked out. And then Steve's having sex. Steve-O and the T-Vo. I really, do you remember the T-Vo?
00:10:04
Speaker 2: Uh, was it Jim and something in Jules? Yeah. Oh, do I remember TiVo itself?
00:10:11
Speaker 3: It was so great. Wasn't it?
00:10:13
Speaker 2: It was our first ability to stream.
00:10:15
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:10:15
Speaker 2: That's where binge watching had its birth.
00:10:18
Speaker 5: Totally.
00:10:19
Speaker 1: Totally.
00:10:19
Speaker 3: But it's also just such a funny.
00:10:22
Speaker 2: Cause we, you know, being actors, we got those like, Early access to it. They sent it to us. I was like, ooh.
00:10:28
Speaker 1: I know, right?
00:10:29
Speaker 3: We were really, really into it. And then when I heard the little sound on the show, I was like, I remember the TiVo. We had such a positive relationship with the TiVo, you know? Like, it was real.
00:10:40
Speaker 2: There's generations watching this. It's like a VCR. I know.
00:10:43
Speaker 1: I know.
00:10:44
Speaker 3: That was so crazy.
00:10:45
Speaker 1: It's so crazy, the importance it had and then, like, how rapidly technology changed to the point where it's unrecognizable now.
00:10:53
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean? No, it's ubiquitous.
00:10:55
Speaker 3: Everyone's like, what?
00:10:55
Speaker 2: The what? Downloadstore.com.
00:10:57
Speaker 1: Right.
00:10:58
Speaker 2: On demand, whatever you want. Right. Like I'm disappointed when they only release an episode.
00:11:02
Speaker 3: What do you mean you only release one episode?
00:11:04
Speaker 1: I know.
00:11:04
Speaker 2: I got to wait? I don't wait.
00:11:07
Speaker 1: I know it's interesting because I was thinking about that when I fell down this hole because you were coming and I wanted to watch some and it just takes you over that you can watch them now.
00:11:16
Speaker 3: But back in the day, that wasn't possible.
00:11:18
Speaker 1: And I was thinking about how I do feel like if we had been able to have them all available to us back then, I feel like it would have shifted the writing in terms of, especially like Mr.
00:11:29
Speaker 5: Big, right?
00:11:31
Speaker 3: Because he's kind of unpalatable. If you have a bunch of him in the early days, like it's like, ew, ick, right?
00:11:37
Speaker 1: But because we had it spaced out, you kind of could like, in some ways digest what had happened, almost.
00:11:47
Speaker 2: Like the characters. I think there's good and bad to both. Because what you're saying, like it, It gave more room for discovery for the competent writers who were writing true and honest. Whereas I also think, God, I'm forgetting the name of the series, but it was this offshoot series from Game of Thrones that just.
00:12:11
Speaker 3: The one that's on now?
00:12:12
Speaker 2: Is it called- Not the House of Dragons. Oh, okay. It's something like The Good Knight.
00:12:17
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, he's great.
00:12:18
Speaker 2: That dude, yeah. And it was so well done start to finish. So it was written like a long form movie. Yeah. Where every scene in it. And so it's not, you don't have this arbitrary fluff that sometimes episodic.
00:12:33
Speaker 3: Television would get back in the day.
00:12:34
Speaker 5: Definitely, yes.
00:12:35
Speaker 3: Well put.
00:12:35
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:12:36
Speaker 1: But I feel like that's what's interesting about our show too. At the time, I felt like there was arbitrary fluff. But when I look back on it, I do not feel like there's arbitrary fluff.
00:12:47
Speaker 2: Again, good writing always stayed true to character and character arc. It's true. There's always sensational entertainment, which good writing should have.
00:12:56
Speaker 1: But....
00:12:59
Speaker 2: It never strayed just to do something for, no, that's true. May said the, something about special effects. And I think it applies to good storytelling that, you know, special effects while viscerally entertaining are soon forgotten.
00:13:13
Speaker 3: So true.
00:13:13
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:13:21
Speaker 1: I'm going to say that my Hyundai hot take for great expectations, episode 602, It's just going to have to be Jason Lewis showing up on our screens as Smith Jared, originally known as Jerry Jared, which is really funny. But he just had such a unique look. He's obviously so beautiful. He's playing a waiter, which is so funny. And he's just got this super special twinkle in his eye. And little did we know that he was going to stay with us in the world of Sex and the City all the way through both movies. And... so beautifully portrays Smith and everything that he goes through with Samantha. So I'm just going to have to say that he is my Hyundai hot take, celebrating iconic moments, bold moves, and unforgettable style, just like Hyundai. If you had to think, like, what are your most vivid memories from playing Smith Jarrett?
00:14:26
Speaker 2: You mean fantastic? Like as Jason being on a set.
00:14:30
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:14:31
Speaker 2: First one that pops to mind, getting to hang out and have coffee with Mikkel Baryshnikoff.
00:14:38
Speaker 3: Good one. In Paris? Wait, not in Paris. In New York.
00:14:41
Speaker 2: No, no, in New York. Got it. That's cool.
00:14:44
Speaker 3: Silver Cup?
00:14:45
Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:14:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, when he was like, what a lovely man.
00:14:49
Speaker 3: Definitely.
00:14:50
Speaker 2: And for me personally, I remember when I was a kid, And, you know, at that time we were so in the Cold War of it all. And media was more, you know, kind of linear and not 24-7. And all I thought of Russia as was this gray, gray place. And when he escaped the bus and stayed and defected, he changed my worldview because I remember seeing his performances and stuff and like seeing him in white nights. And I was like, as a young child's, uh, imagination going, but they're all great people. Here's this vibrant, colorful, alive man. And so it, it shifted. And I always like, like, Weirdly, because I wasn't that into Belay or anything, but he struck me, like culturally struck me as a kid.
00:15:58
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Huge.
00:15:58
Speaker 2: He's incredibly important. He was like a childhood hero. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so then getting to meet him, and he couldn't have been more lovely.
00:16:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
00:16:05
Speaker 2: He was lovely. He was such a nice man.
00:16:07
Speaker 3: Okay, so that stands out.
00:16:09
Speaker 2: What else?
00:16:09
Speaker 3: Anything else?
00:16:11
Speaker 2: Honestly, one of my favorite things about being in the show was New York.
00:16:19
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:16:19
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:16:20
Speaker 2: I have always, same thing since childhood, I've always had a love of New York from films and romanticized it. The unprecedented access to just be and take over blocks. Oh, filming in New York.
00:16:39
Speaker 3: Incredible.
00:16:40
Speaker 2: And so well loved.
00:16:42
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:16:43
Speaker 2: Because- It was a New York show. And, you know, like I remember I wasn't even in the episode, but you guys were shooting at the garden.
00:16:54
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:16:55
Speaker 2: And so I would just show up set to shoot because I was like, I mean, I'm just going to shoot some baskets in the garden, you know.
00:17:04
Speaker 3: Wow, I wonder if we have pictures of that.
00:17:05
Speaker 1: We haven't gotten to that part yet, but I mean, because the Knicks just went in, right?
00:17:09
Speaker 2: I doubt it, because you guys were off shooting.
00:17:11
Speaker 3: I was just there.
00:17:12
Speaker 2: I was taking.
00:17:12
Speaker 3: Advantage of the fact that you were using it as a location.
00:17:15
Speaker 1: Charlotte is so adorably trying to be a Jew. It's the cutest thing in the world. Of course, I remember this, but it's so fun to watch it. Like, I was surprised. I was so pleasantly surprised. And I think this episode is directed by David Frankel. Do you remember Frankel, who did Devil's Worst Product?
00:17:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. It was awesome. He is.
00:17:34
Speaker 3: He's such a great director. Such a great director and really thoughtful and interesting.
00:17:39
Speaker 2: Just cool energy.
00:17:40
Speaker 3: Cool energy.
00:17:41
Speaker 2: I agree.
00:17:41
Speaker 3: I agree.
00:17:42
Speaker 2: The one.
00:17:43
Speaker 1: The one thing I have to say, this is not the episode where I do the mikvah, but that's coming, right? Because at this point, I'm just trying to get the rabbis to talk to me.
00:17:51
Speaker 3: To open the door.
00:17:52
Speaker 1: Right.
00:17:53
Speaker 3: Which I fully enjoyed that. It was really fun.
00:17:55
Speaker 1: I remember filming that. I'm wearing, we were really stressed about what I was going to wear. So I'm wearing like very kind of like super ladylike. It was the Marc Jacobs at Louis Vuitton phase. And I had gone shopping and was like brought my things to Pat. So I'm wearing some of my own clothes because it was like, it was like when you're really loving the clothes that they're making.
00:18:17
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
00:18:18
Speaker 1: So I was like, I'm going to buy all these things. So I have a lot of those clothes at my house.
00:18:22
Speaker 2: Oh, nice.
00:18:22
Speaker 1: I know.
00:18:23
Speaker 3: It's good.
00:18:23
Speaker 2: It's good.
00:18:23
Speaker 3: I don't really wear them, but there they are. If, if I want them.
00:18:27
Speaker 1: And they're, they're perfect because they're very waspy looking, but also like, so put.
00:18:32
Speaker 2: Together, you know, sexy wasp, sexy librarian.
00:18:36
Speaker 3: Thank you, Jason. That's what Pat liked, the sexy librarian.
00:18:40
Speaker 2: Definitely. Definitely.
00:18:41
Speaker 1: But it's funny too, because like, I don't know if it's because of New York, but like there's that one scene. I don't know if it's this episode where I put the, um, the, um, what's it called when you put it on your door? Oh, the, uh, it's not a, it's not a mitzvah or a mikvah, but it's a, it's a, um, It's going.
00:18:59
Speaker 3: To come to me. I'm putting it on my door and my neighbor comes out and I'm like, I'm a Jew now.
00:19:04
Speaker 2: Mazuza.
00:19:05
Speaker 3: Mazuza. I knew it was an M. Thank you so much, Houston. Mazuza.
00:19:09
Speaker 1: I'm putting the Mazuza up and my neighbor comes out. But it's so funny because like, we're trying to portray waspy New York, but it's very not that different from Jewish New York.
00:19:18
Speaker 3: Do you know what I'm saying? Like, it's so interesting to me, you know?
00:19:21
Speaker 2: Again, I said earlier, I think there's more that binds us than separates us. I, I mean, I love Jewish New York, especially old Jewish New York.
00:19:33
Speaker 3: Right, like when I'm in Zabar's, do you remember that? When I'm in Zabar's, it's awesome. You can see why she.
00:19:39
Speaker 2: Wants to do it. I think it's wonderful. Again, not an arbitrary character decision because here's this person that, thinks life has to be super packaged right and i remember like even when you finally do like you show up but they're they're having their seder.
00:20:00
Speaker 3: Yes and i know.
00:20:03
Speaker 2: And he's like Quit trying so hard. Right. And so like even that became a backdrop to your character's growth because it was about acceptance and being a part of something instead of trying to make everything fit into your perfect vision of the world. Definitely.
00:20:21
Speaker 3: That's what she so desperately wants.
00:20:23
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:20:24
Speaker 3: She wants to be a part of things and she wants this family.
00:20:27
Speaker 1: Right.
00:20:27
Speaker 3: So she's seeing this, you know, three generations.
00:20:30
Speaker 2: That was a point where your character was really evolving too. Cause you, you were in like, that was where you were as kind of the voice of, of growth and maturity for Carrie's character with Berger going, you know, Hey, look, I didn't know that love was going to come the way it came, but it came.
00:20:53
Speaker 3: Right, right, right.
00:20:54
Speaker 2: And I am recognizing that. Right, that was really good. So that was a big step for your.
00:20:58
Speaker 3: Character at that point. Definitely, definitely really good. Definitely really good.
00:21:02
Speaker 1: I love the whole arc of Charlotte, obviously, over time, I love. But this particular time, I remember the part when I'm divorcing Trey and.
00:21:13
Speaker 3: I meet Harry and I'm just like, what? You know, and Evan is so great. Like, he's so... funny with very little writing in the beginning. You know what I mean?
00:21:22
Speaker 1: And coming up is the scene where I finally do Seder and he wants to watch the Mets.
00:21:28
Speaker 3: I don't know if you remember this.
00:21:29
Speaker 1: I remember that a lot because I was super nervous because I had to do the whole, I had to.
00:21:33
Speaker 3: You know, speak in Hebrew and it's really hard.
00:21:36
Speaker 1: And they had gotten all these advisors and the advisors disagreed on some pronunciation.
00:21:42
Speaker 3: Which really messed me up so badly. I was like, oh, I have two voices in my head telling me different pronunciation. Oh my God. Cause I don't, I don't know.
00:21:51
Speaker 1: I am very much, you know, a waspy person, but it was fun to try to do it and to try to do it in the way that Charlotte would do it, which is with a reverence, you know, like she's trying.
00:22:02
Speaker 2: To do her absolute best. Charlotte's a good girl. Yes.
00:22:06
Speaker 1: And she really wants to do it, you know, well, and then Harry wants to watch the Mets and she's like, you don't understand how much I've tried, you know, which is her whole personality right there.
00:22:18
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? Which is good writing again, right? But then of course, you know, and they break up, right? And then she has to go through that, which is great, but I'm not even there yet. But it was really fun for me.
00:22:29
Speaker 1: To watch because, you know, it's better than I remembered it, which is a really nice surprise.
00:22:37
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I think that's, also in the moment you're, you know, you're sitting there, there's a certain amount of survival going on, you know, you're fighting for identity and character identity and, you know, just living your life, like being able to take it in from a non-pressure place.
00:22:56
Speaker 1: Well, so like, there's a, for me always with my work, I have a level of panic about it at the time.
00:23:02
Speaker 3: Right.
00:23:03
Speaker 1: And a level of nerves and a level of, you know, like, having the kind of Charlotte ideal of, like, I have an idea of what I want to do, which I think is true for all of us, right? You have an idea of what you want to do, and did I reach that or did I not reach that?
00:23:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, the aspirational artist.
00:23:17
Speaker 3: Right, I'm so critical, you know, at the time, right?
00:23:19
Speaker 1: So, like, I would remember rushing home to watch it before it was on the air, but then I would just nitpick myself, but then I would love everyone else.
00:23:26
Speaker 3: And now I could just love all of it.
00:23:28
Speaker 1: Enjoy it.
00:23:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's great.
00:23:30
Speaker 2: It's so great. You're not looking at it through the lens of your criticisms, but just.
00:23:33
Speaker 3: Looking at it. Right, and there's nothing I can do now anyway, which is fantastic. It's so great.
00:23:39
Speaker 1: And it's great to think that we made that together and that everyone was participating and bringing their stuff or their experience. I feel like everyone is just so present.
00:23:54
Speaker 2: Yes. I think everyone understood the level of importance. And everyone, all the way down through the crew. Yeah, yeah.
00:24:03
Speaker 3: Amazing.
00:24:04
Speaker 2: Amazing.
00:24:05
Speaker 3: So amazing.
00:24:06
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:24:17
Speaker 1: That's what I think was also great about your presence showing up. Because again, I just don't think it was that easy.
00:24:24
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? But you brought so much like you're super present. Didn't you think?
00:24:32
Speaker 2: I mean, like you said.
00:24:33
Speaker 3: When you watch it, what do you think?
00:24:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually think I did a pretty damn good job.
00:24:39
Speaker 3: You really did. You really, really did. I'm glad you feel that way.
00:24:42
Speaker 1: Because you're, from the first time at the restaurant, you're fully there.
00:24:47
Speaker 2: But again, like, it's there. It was there to be discovered. Yeah, like, you know, he's in on the game.
00:24:54
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:24:55
Speaker 2: But that's also... I think it was in the writing. Yes, I performed it, but I think it was in the writing. He's in on the game, but that's inherent to... It's why it was such a good introduction.
00:25:09
Speaker 3: Yes.
00:25:09
Speaker 2: In the sense of if he's going to be this catalyst of acceptance for her, then he doesn't... He's in on it, but he's not judging it.
00:25:21
Speaker 1: No.
00:25:21
Speaker 2: He's not sitting there and going.
00:25:24
Speaker 5: jackasses he's like but but and i love that line you know it was like yeah you know you didn't have because he there's a certain humor and he's observing and like enjoying the like.
00:25:36
Speaker 2: I was ready to go sleep with you like last Tuesday. We're good lady. Definitely.
00:25:42
Speaker 1: Definitely. But that whole, the twinkle that you bring, that's just you, right? Like the writing's there and the writing is great, but there's a twinkle. There's a, like a, you're welcome. It's good.
00:25:52
Speaker 3: It's really good. It's really good. It's so nice.
00:25:54
Speaker 1: It's so nice to be able to, to look at our past work and revel in it, you know, and what we created and then it still lives.
00:26:00
Speaker 3: It's great to be part of that.
00:26:02
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't actually do that either. I'm, Me neither.
00:26:06
Speaker 3: Until I did this.
00:26:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm too self-critical.
00:26:08
Speaker 3: Me too. And I also feel like I don't want to live in the past. Yeah.
00:26:12
Speaker 1: And definitely at the time I was self-critical, but now after all this time.
00:26:16
Speaker 2: Space just to breathe it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:26:19
Speaker 1: And also I do feel like there's stuff to be learned from the past. not necessarily so much like I did. I learned a lot watching myself at the beginning of the show. I see a lot of things that were going on with me personally and trying to fit in and trying to be enough. And, you know, I feel, I feel for her, like, you know, I have so much compassion for her when I look at her, but by this point, because Michael and I have really found this partnership in terms of writing for Charlotte and what he wants me to do and, what he believes I can do.
00:26:48
Speaker 3: You know, sometimes you need that kind of mentorship.
00:26:51
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
00:26:51
Speaker 5: Yeah.
00:26:52
Speaker 3: And he really gave it to me.
00:26:53
Speaker 2: You're saying that he would put your life on the page?
00:26:55
Speaker 3: No, he didn't.
00:26:56
Speaker 2: No, he didn't. He didn't.
00:26:57
Speaker 1: I mean, really, I think he was putting other writers on the page more so than my life.
00:27:02
Speaker 3: But I think he.
00:27:03
Speaker 1: Because there wasn't a lot that matched. You know, I didn't want to get married.
00:27:07
Speaker 3: I'm not married. I didn't get married. I did adopt a child. I didn't convert to Judaism. There's so many differences.
00:27:13
Speaker 1: But I think that what Michael was so good at and still is so good at, energetically, emotionally.
00:27:20
Speaker 3: He gets you.
00:27:21
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:27:22
Speaker 3: And then he writes you. space that you can yeah.
00:27:26
Speaker 1: Do you know what i'm saying so all the specifics might be different yeah but he knows what you can fill it.
00:27:30
Speaker 2: With absolutely yes yeah he's very good at that.
00:27:34
Speaker 6: Super super good at that like i don't even know we should come up with the word for that but yeah it's it's a a mix of different talents all rolled into one i think right but some of the writers too like amy harris remember amy harris incredible and like i remember when she came she was darren's assistant But Michael Patrick, she said, both Darren definitely believed in her.
00:27:55
Speaker 1: And then Michael Patrick really said to her, like, I believe in you. You're going to write your own script. It's going to be amazing.
00:28:00
Speaker 3: And she was like, oh my God, oh my God.
00:28:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, ultimately is intense and critical of the work. Not critical in like tearing it down way, but you know, just very empowering man. Very empowering man.
00:28:15
Speaker 1: And the thing that's interesting is that sometimes people see him, and I think that the job of a showrunner is so hard right because you're having to do 20 different jobs you've got to have the vision yeah you know the vision alone is huge right and people see him as somehow like um too powerful somehow like sometimes i'll get comments from our listeners and stuff about like.
00:28:37
Speaker 3: Michael being too powerful but no show is good without that yeah i mean.
00:28:42
Speaker 2: I you could criticize any great leader and that again, the man in the arena, so easy, but the cohesiveness of that was because he put that much of himself into it. Definitely. And not an easy job at all. No. To make sure that all of these different elements are coming to a singularity because it's, you know, the fact that he even was writing episodes singularly, I know. Like, where do you find the time? Not just overseeing a writer's room, but taking the helm of certain episodes and then directing and producing. That's a lot of hats he was wearing.
00:29:22
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
00:29:22
Speaker 2: It's crazy. That's also, I think, why. And you see it. You see when he took over. that there is a greater cohesion for the show.
00:29:30
Speaker 1: And I think when you took over is when we really started leaning into the long story arcs and that's what I think we did so well, as well as being funny, which is very hard to do both.
00:29:42
Speaker 2: Super easy to do sensational, really hard to move an audience.
00:29:46
Speaker 3: Right, right, right, right, right. And that's why it was so great to be a part of it. You're going to have to come back and give us full progress report.
00:29:53
Speaker 1: I will.
00:29:55
Speaker 2: This is the first time I really ever talked about it.
00:29:57
Speaker 3: Oh, my God. Uh-oh, uh-oh. Jason.
00:30:00
Speaker 1: What?
00:30:00
Speaker 3: Are you a Charlotte?
00:30:02
Speaker 2: Am I a Charlotte? Interesting.
00:30:04
Speaker 3: Isn't it? I don't know what you're going to say.
00:30:07
Speaker 2: I would say probably now more than ever. Oh. And I'll tell you another thing. I think that my character and your character are actually very similar.
00:30:20
Speaker 3: Interesting.
00:30:21
Speaker 2: Because I think what makes Charlotte Charlotte is the sincerity and the hope.
00:30:29
Speaker 3: Yes.
00:30:30
Speaker 2: Yes, there's other things. There's character foibles, the perfectionism and stuff. But ultimately, the core of her is the hope and the sincere way that she approaches life. And I think I do that better than I've probably ever done. Nice. Yeah. That's so good.
00:30:50
Speaker 3: That's so good.
00:30:51
Speaker 2: I love it.
00:30:52
Speaker 3: Would you have said historically that you were someone else?
00:30:55
Speaker 2: Probably not. I, you know, played at the ideas that I better hold now. So, yeah, I think I was maybe more of a Carrie.
00:31:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would have said Carrie.
00:31:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I was more... The analyst. Yeah, you were.
00:31:14
Speaker 3: You always had a lot of, you were watching everybody.
00:31:16
Speaker 2: And I thought that, you know, like I used to think that you could reason your way into everything. And as I've gotten older, acceptance and understanding and compassion and empathy are just more developed. And so I hope they will be with anybody. Of course.
00:31:31
Speaker 3: Let's all try to do that.
00:31:32
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Let's all try and be a little nicer to each other. So yeah, I think I was probably more of a Carrie when I was younger. That's cool. And definitely more of a Charlotte now.
00:31:40
Speaker 3: I love it. I love it.
00:31:42
Speaker 1: I mean, Charlotte and Costa Rica, that would be a good growth for Charlotte.
00:31:47
Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean? It would be awesome.
00:31:48
Speaker 2: Just don't drink the water, baby. I love it.
00:31:52
Speaker 3: Thank you, Jason.
00:31:52
Speaker 2: Pleasure.
00:31:53
Speaker 1: Thank you.
00:31:53
Speaker 3: Thanks for being with us.
00:31:54
Speaker 2: That was fun, fun, fun.