March 30, 2026
The Music man with Craig Bierko... (S4 E3 "Defining Moments")
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RSS Feed Tony nominee Craig Bierko is ready to share his experience on Sex and the City.
His character met Carrie while she was out with her “friend” Big.
Craig recalls what it was like to appear as a guest star and if he was similar to Ray.
He opens up to Kristin about his career, his celebrity friends and so much more.
That cat can play.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
00:00:01
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are you a Charlotte?
00:00:08
Speaker 2: Hi? Everyone, welcome to Are You a Charlotte Today. It's exciting.
00:00:14
Speaker 1: We have Craig Bierco, who plays Raking, the jazz guy.
00:00:19
Speaker 2: Very very very exciting to talk to him.
00:00:22
Speaker 1: His first episode with us aired in two thousand and one June tenth, two thousand and one, and it's called Defining Moments, and it was really really fun to catch up. He's had a really fascinating career and we hear about some very interesting things that he has done in the past. He's really really fun and he's so great as Ray King, as I'm sure you'll all remember. So please enjoy talking with Craig Bierk. Let me just say I'm so, so so excited that you're joining us because I.
00:00:52
Speaker 2: Often think about you.
00:00:53
Speaker 1: I'm like, Craig Vierico came on our show at the weirdest time. You play the most like we were in. We were already in. We had big, we had aiden, there were these long storylines and then we just walked in the middle of it, you know, to play your fantastic jazz man as we call you, who's technically your name is Ray King, Ray k It's a good name. So take us back. What was it like, what do you remember? How did it happen?
00:01:24
Speaker 3: Oh? Well, at the time, I was I think I was on the last part of my year doing The Music Man. Susan Stroman had done a revival of The Music Man and I had been doing that for the year, so I was sort of in that zone, just kind of robotically not doing the show. But you know what it's.
00:01:46
Speaker 2: Like, Yeah, it shows a week full, it shows a week.
00:01:48
Speaker 3: It's it's really something. And so I was I had been doing that for close to a year, and the call came. And as you know, when you're if you're doing a show that's you know, eight a week, you're you're never not completely exhausted, and the the nobody tells you that after you get over the thrill of being on a Broadway show, the single greatest thing about it is that you have license to say no to everything. Everything. You don't have to go anywhere, you don't have to talk to anybody, you can be late, you can not And and this came along in my and a couple of things had come along and I I was really just too tired. It wasn't that it was that some of the things I didn't want to do, but some of the things I just thought, there's no way I could do this. And and this came along and I read it, and I of course, I you know, I wanted to do it, and when I read it, I thought, I can't not do it. I mean, it's I've never read a part like this. I don't know that I've seen a part like that since actually, which is crazy, but I had. I had such a great time. There were a couple of things that you know, I remember, I remember you guys were all unfailingly nice and welcome. Well thanks not It's not always the case, you know, And I've done a couple of shows where I was in your position, and you know, it was it. I remember, you know, I wanted to, you know, pay attention to that example. It's important, I think, I think it is not only just because it's what decent human beings do, but also you're going to get the best performance from a guest the sooner they feel like they're part of the cast, and the more a cast can make them feel like a regular part of the caste Literally, little things like developing inside jokes and stuff like that. It matters. I think I had one scene with the rest of you guys where she introduces me.
00:03:52
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, we didn't have enough stuff with you. We definitely didn't nothing.
00:03:56
Speaker 3: I got no experience with the rest of the gals, which was too bad. But I didn't I enjoyed the storyline.
00:04:04
Speaker 1: You're so good in this character. It's so perfect for you, Like it's a perfect union, don't you think, Well, is that what you mean when you said you haven't gotten that many scripts like this?
00:04:13
Speaker 3: Is?
00:04:13
Speaker 2: Like, what exactly do you mean by that?
00:04:15
Speaker 3: Oh? It is? Yeah, I mean I if I love a script, it can be for any number of reasons it's but for this one, it was what I recognized. I thought, you know, listen, it's a common affliction. I'm not ashamed of it, but I grew up with ADHD and I'd never seen it represented as anything but a comic conceit, and it is used as a bit of a comic conceit. But I do feel also like it's I wouldn't want something like that treated with reverence. I want it. I'd want to look at and if I was going to inhabit it, I would want it to be as close to my own experience as possible, you know, yeah, this case was particularly tents.
00:05:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I.
00:05:03
Speaker 3: Can say there's nothing in that script that I don't recognize.
00:05:06
Speaker 2: Amazing.
00:05:07
Speaker 1: I love that. That's really interesting. I didn't realize that. I didn't realize that, but I guess so perfect.
00:05:13
Speaker 3: That's your writers. And also the in performance too. It was it was immediately comfortable and I and I and it was that old joke like I had lived the trope of the very first job I got, they said, can you ride a horse? I was like, can I ride a horse? And then I went and like had to take course back writing lessons and it was a I almost got killed. But everybody's got stories like that. And there's something about getting on, you know. And another joke that I've always heard but I hadn't experienced until then was you meet somebody and you jump right into bed the most intimate scene. And we had some pretty intimate I mean, you guys got kind of body on the show, which is which is great, yes, but to jump inside.
00:05:57
Speaker 2: Of that, yeah, I mean yeah, yeah, it's a lot was and.
00:06:03
Speaker 3: I remember thinking this is sort of I wonder if this is they throw you into the deep end of the pool. So because there's so much because once that was out of the way and it wasn't any I actually didn't feel uncomfortable because she was so much fun, yeah, and made it so light and not about what it was, and it was technical and she really knows what she's doing obviously, yes, and I felt I just remember walking onto the set and I certain I'm not an arrogant person, So I didn't feel like, all right, line up. I just felt like I felt very at home and comfortable and creative, and that's the most important thing, Like, oh, whatever they've hired me to do, I feel like all my pistons are firing and ready to go.
00:06:43
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:06:44
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what I see when I watch you, and that that's also, I think, such an interesting thing to think about because one of the things that we've talked about amongst ourselves on the podcast, it was when we started the show and the guys would come in and you you were I think, like you were. I mean, but this is just about you as a person too, Like you were on Broadway. You're doing the music man, You're coming in for this part that you already knew it was.
00:07:11
Speaker 2: However, many episodes, right, like was it?
00:07:12
Speaker 3: I can't remember there was two episodes, But I love that. This is one of those shows where people were like that was I loved you on that season?
00:07:19
Speaker 1: Well good, I mean, because that's how I feel about it too. I felt like it was longer, right because like you came on and were immediately able to be fully present, and that's why I think the character stands out like there wasn't like a ramp of learning, like you were just there.
00:07:38
Speaker 3: Yeah. I felt it was very wise. The whole thing was handled very well. And you'd have to tell me if that if that existed before and after in the series and the movies and stuff. But it was very wise to bring me in. And I met with Sarah Jeska. I we just met, We talked, right, and I think we both learned much more more doing that than if it was just a conventional audition.
00:08:03
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and that wasn't always the case on our show. Sometimes, like when we Kyle, they just hired and of course I was like, oh my god, come booklets here. And then with Evan who came on later as Harry, he had to read with me, So it was maybe like his third callback or something, and I remember, you're just dying for those actors, because of course we's all we've all been there. You're just like, it's so nerve.
00:08:26
Speaker 3: Wracking, difficult situation.
00:08:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would have so, I mean, definitely, it's very very clear Jewish get out.
00:08:35
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, don't don't do you need to see it again, none of that stuff. That was the first thing I learned. You just do it and get out, even if you lay a big stink bomber the hell out. That's what I thought. Genius. You don't want that, you're crazy.
00:08:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I agree, and that that was definitely how Evan was, you know, in terms of like he didn't he wasn't asking for a lot. He just was like, this is what I'm going to do. And it was, of course brilliant. But I would have loved to talk to him too. Write We didn't really get that, Like I think I went out into the to the where they were waiting and tried to chat.
00:09:05
Speaker 3: It's fascinating human being sensitive.
00:09:09
Speaker 2: It's so true. It's so true, but so are you.
00:09:11
Speaker 1: And I think at this point in time, to come on our show and be able to just be present with Sarah, you know, and she's she's been going through these long storylines with you know, John and Chris, right, and like you must have been such a breath of fresh air. I don't mean that in a negative way, but like, you know what I'm saying, Like it was so different and when you're rewatching it or watching it the first time, because I don't really remember this part of the show that well, which is interesting.
00:09:38
Speaker 2: Some I remember a lot and some I don't. You're you're, I'm it's so exciting, right, you're watching the show. You're not thinking that she's going to do anything.
00:09:47
Speaker 1: She's literally on a date with Big but not a date, like a non date date, and you're on stage and you're flirting with her, which I also thought was very bold right of your character.
00:09:57
Speaker 2: And then she's she's into it, and you're just.
00:09:59
Speaker 1: So leaved as a viewer that she's into someone new, you know, thank god, thank god. I thought it was so so good, And I really really.
00:10:08
Speaker 3: Didn't have any sense. I didn't have any sense that you didn't know. Something that worked for me was I don't know if it would have made a difference ultimately, but so meeting you guys, I was really meeting you guys. I had seen the show, and my girlfriend at the time, of course, was completely obsessed and loved the show. I didn't have any time, but I also just was it didn't feel like my show. But anytime I had seen it or I watched it with her, I enjoyed it, but not enough to have so much familiarity that when I walked in, I was like, that's.
00:10:41
Speaker 2: The lamp, right, That's a good thing.
00:10:45
Speaker 3: There wasn't any of that. Like I was familiar with the apartment and all that kind of stuff, and I knew who mister Big was. I knew all you guys were. I basically knew the idea of it, and the tone I got was the most important thing, right, especially when you're coming in yeah, and you're you know, your character hasn't met any of the other people, so you're sort of like you haven't landed in this nest. And in each nest, they have their own way of communicating. Like any group of friends, you have your own secret language, your own you know, and and I think that even translates in a in a show or a play that where you're just representing a group of friends. There was very much that it was a very complete organism. Yes, yes, I actually felt like, oh, this is a great I mean, it's definitely a job. I'm not crazy. I know I'm playing the part, but there is this experience of actually meeting these people who I only sort of know, but there wasn't enough familiarity to go.
00:11:46
Speaker 1: Great, right, that's great, that's great to have the kind of balance.
00:11:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, a balance, right.
00:11:51
Speaker 3: I like to a lot of people don't work like that. But whatever's right in front of me, that's what I that's what feels the most alive to me.
00:11:58
Speaker 1: I think, yes, and not all men were good at that, and that's what I wanted to say earlier, but I got off my own track. It was hard in the beginning because in a lot of ways, the men are cast as the girlfriend parts, like what had traditionally been the girlfriend parts that we were very used to doing, right, but it seemed it seems strange for men to be in that position.
00:12:20
Speaker 3: It was great.
00:12:21
Speaker 2: I know, you did just the best job at.
00:12:23
Speaker 3: It, and it was great. It was great for me in a way that like vitamins are great for you. Yes, here's what it's like to you know, to come in and you're basically. I mean, it's a very well written show, but coming in as a guest on shows that are not as well put together, you knows, it's very disoriented.
00:12:44
Speaker 2: It can be yeah, and you and.
00:12:46
Speaker 3: At some point at least this has been my experience. You're like, I just fake it, pretend.
00:12:52
Speaker 2: I'm absolutely, oh absolutely.
00:12:55
Speaker 1: I mean also, I think I don't know how many like half hours you've done or whatever. But there was a time where I decided that I wanted to kind of even after the show was on, I wanted to go and be in different situations. So I went on Will and Grace as a guest star. I went on Friends as a guest star. You know, I had been on Seinfeld already before the show is.
00:13:12
Speaker 2: A gues star.
00:13:13
Speaker 1: You know, each totally totally different experiences because each you know, environment, eco cause them, whatever you want to call it, are They're different, right, and the vibe is different, and the part is different.
00:13:25
Speaker 2: But the thing that would really.
00:13:27
Speaker 1: Frustrate me is that sometimes, especially in the multi camera, they would rewrite your part as the week went on, and You're just like, I don't.
00:13:36
Speaker 2: Know what I'm doing here at all?
00:13:39
Speaker 3: Really hard are There's so many things that like, nobody's going to ask an actor, Hey, if you're going to restructure the network, how would you do it? But hey, some actor. But I really did think after i'd been around the you know, around for a little while, and I had auditioned and tested and even done things that I just thought. I remember reading a book and I read that the Marx Brothers. I'm a huge Marx Brothers fan, and the and they their best movies, Uh, they kind of they they went downhill a little bit towards the end, but their best movies they toured as shows. There's a different world, but they were broad with you know, they toured them, not just some Broadway but in the boonies. And I always thought, why, if you've got a pilot and you're investing millions of dollars into it, and you're taking a risk with all the casting and all that kind of stuff, why don't you have your don't say anything, don't promote the show, just have the writers say we're gonna pick it up, write four episodes. We're gonna go to Eugene or wherever, and we're gonna run it for a month. We're gonna find out worth and we're gonna run four episodes together, cool and just have an evening. I mean they do it now when they bring shows back and they do them live. I mean sort of as a joke and it's campy.
00:14:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, but.
00:15:00
Speaker 3: Sometimes they're not campy. Sometimes they get the original cast and they do them live and they tour. It used to be big, but it's not that big anymore. But I was like, why wouldn't you want to? I mean, it's so great that there's a sex in the city, but you're really just spinning that you're rolling the dice every time you that you're definitely all the elements could have been there. But what if you didn't have the right director, what if the casting wasn't right with one part? What if I mean anything could have happened. Wouldn't you want to iron out all those problems? It always and also you've tested for stuff. Obviously, why are we testing in Eric's office? Why did you build this I'm going off now, Oh, I know, build a fact simile of a sound stage so you can see what we do.
00:15:42
Speaker 1: It's true, it's it's hard to really even imagine that anything ever works.
00:15:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is amazing. Well, it's it's an explanation for why so Little.
00:15:51
Speaker 2: Does That's true too, That's true too.
00:15:53
Speaker 1: But yeah, we were very lucky and that HBO really just trusted us, which was the one that.
00:15:59
Speaker 3: Was a I'm Drew barrymore all of a sudden, but that was a that was It really was a unique time.
00:16:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, it really was. We were so lucky to be there.
00:16:11
Speaker 3: Yeah, HBO was. It was closer to almost what theater was.
00:16:15
Speaker 2: Yep, yep, yep, yep.
00:16:16
Speaker 1: They were like, just go, just go do it. Let's see, let's see what happens. So this episode, I don't even think I said what it was called. It's called Defining Moments. It aired June tenth, two thousand and one. Let me just ask you a brief question about two thousand and one. This is how I remember the summer of two thousand and one, because we would have gone back to filming in like February, and then the episodes would have aired, you know, kind of as we went, and I remember this summer is just being this incredible, kind of like intense time of everything was amazing in New York and the summer of two thousand and right, summer, do you remember that the weather was beautiful, things were just exciting.
00:17:07
Speaker 3: It was right before the world what.
00:17:08
Speaker 2: Nuts exactly exactly. It was like, yeah, that's how I felt as well.
00:17:13
Speaker 1: And I just feel like it was everything was like brighter, you know, it was it was like a almost.
00:17:18
Speaker 2: Like a technicolor summer, you.
00:17:21
Speaker 3: Know, yes, yes, beautiful.
00:17:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, before things change. So I'm glad that you were a part of our world in that, in that glorious summer.
00:17:28
Speaker 2: Yeah. What was the response after you were on the show and it aired.
00:17:32
Speaker 3: It's immediate. It's the close I mean, I'm not not in terms of quality, but it was the closest experience I ever had to like maybe being on a soap or something, because of the level of familiarity and the sense of propriety that.
00:17:50
Speaker 2: People have with the definitely yes.
00:17:52
Speaker 3: They're actually they're the They're people walking around thinking you're their actual friends. And and so when I went out that night that point when the show aired, I was living up on eighty sixth Street, and I went out for a walk right afterwards, just to get something to eat, and a woman walked right up to me and said, are you going to hurt her? Yeah, it's not a great question to ask of large man in New York city. But yeah, it was, and I realized, oh, she's she meant carry and I went, oh, And she wasn't crazy. She just said, please tell me what's going to happen. I said, I really have no idea, but I wouldn't count. And that was when I realized, I think any guys that aren't mister Big or essentially different grades of the guys on Star Trek with the Red Shirts, we're going back down to the planet. But we're not coming back. We're not coming back.
00:18:47
Speaker 2: No, I mean, you never know, right, you never know. I guess you were right. I guess you were right. So was it? Were people ever mad at you? Like about what?
00:18:57
Speaker 3: Oh?
00:18:58
Speaker 2: No?
00:18:58
Speaker 3: They love the show. And to this day, if if I get I can usually tell now I've got, I've accumulated a body of work. I can usually tell here comes the sex and the city person. I can usually tell for sure. And I'm the thing as I get older, the thing that pleases me most of course, is that it's like I must be within the weight range.
00:19:21
Speaker 1: So I mean, we're recognizing, we feel this, okay, we all feel the.
00:19:27
Speaker 2: Pressure of that.
00:19:28
Speaker 3: Terrific. Actually, thank you so much.
00:19:32
Speaker 2: Thank you, so do you so do you the hair.
00:19:34
Speaker 1: I just' you've got great, great hair, great great hair. Okay, so let's talk about the episode for a little bit. The thing that's funny to me about this episode is the incredible cast. We've got yourself, We've got Kyle of course, We've got Sonia Braga comes on, which.
00:19:48
Speaker 2: Is like, how on earth did this even really happen?
00:19:51
Speaker 3: Right?
00:19:51
Speaker 1: And then we've got Jim Gavigan, who's playing this kind of like slightly horrible man.
00:19:58
Speaker 2: At least that's my whatever.
00:19:59
Speaker 1: But I I remember I knew of him and his stand up, but like he's done so incredibly well, Like it's so wonderful to see.
00:20:07
Speaker 2: And he's a sweet See.
00:20:08
Speaker 3: I auditioned with him all the time. I don't know why they always put us together, but a couple of times we auditioned for things to get interesting. Such a good actor, very actor.
00:20:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a very nice guy.
00:20:19
Speaker 3: And I'm happy for him too, me too. It was an incredible cast. I couldn't believe who was there.
00:20:24
Speaker 2: I know, I mean, like, it's it's pretty exciting, and.
00:20:26
Speaker 3: I got to work with none of you. I know.
00:20:29
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. I'm sorry you were siloed into the carry world.
00:20:32
Speaker 3: That's all right. I was a happy camper.
00:20:34
Speaker 1: Definitely, definitely, and it's so great. So you guys, so basically Big we started the show, Big and Carrie are friends because she has called him on her birthday because she feels bad that no man cares about her on her birthday, which is very relatable, of course. But Big is back, but they're friends, which is weird to watch, I think, And they go to the Monkey Bar.
00:20:55
Speaker 3: Why did you think it was weird to watch?
00:20:57
Speaker 1: I think it's weird to watch, I think because we have invested so much into the Big and Carrie relationship.
00:21:05
Speaker 2: They've been through so much, so to see.
00:21:08
Speaker 1: Kind of like a light version, you know, because the chemistry is still there, obviously, but also she's trying to protect herself and he's being his charming self.
00:21:18
Speaker 2: You know, there's many aside.
00:21:20
Speaker 3: It's obviously. I mean I watched that scene again and in the car and I just thought, oh, he's hurting.
00:21:27
Speaker 2: Definitely, I mean, definitely, I love that scene in the car so much. I didn't remember it at all. I remember you being there, and I remember you wearing that hat. I remember your presence. I know, I know.
00:21:39
Speaker 1: I don't know why you wear that why.
00:21:43
Speaker 3: I kept asking if I could take it off, and they were like, they call you you know.
00:21:47
Speaker 1: I was like, thank god, you take it off when you do, Okay.
00:21:50
Speaker 3: I kept taking it off.
00:21:52
Speaker 1: I get it, man, we have a whole hat situation in our world where the costume people love the hat.
00:21:58
Speaker 2: Sarah loves your hat.
00:21:59
Speaker 3: I get it. And it's a fashion forward show.
00:22:01
Speaker 2: It is it is.
00:22:02
Speaker 3: I also don't know. I can't tell you how many times I've got a friend who's got a much better sense of fashion than I do. And if I go, if I need a suit, I just take him and I buy what he says because I can't tell.
00:22:13
Speaker 1: So I'm kind of with you. Yeah, I'm not the best. I try to pretend like I am, but I'm not. The thing about you is that you're so tall, right, So you're so tall, so to put a hat on you does really make you specific Like from that perspective as a character, it very much makes sense.
00:22:29
Speaker 2: So I love that you're up there. Then they go.
00:22:30
Speaker 1: Then he takes her for some reason downtown below fourteenth Street. He says, to a jazz bar, and she doesn't know anything about jazz, which is also kind of funny. I mean, okay, Carrie, and there you are right in front of her playing the bass.
00:22:44
Speaker 2: Did you know how to play the bass?
00:22:45
Speaker 3: No? They came in and I still have it. Oh I should have found it and dug it up. But they gave me a tape to listen to the song that was going to be playing cool. And then I think somebody I think I seem to remember there was a bass player may have showed up the first day who told me because there is a shot where you see I'm playing right, and it was they wanted like two or three notes, so I learned those.
00:23:08
Speaker 2: God it okay.
00:23:09
Speaker 3: We had to learn trombone from music man, so I wasn't afraid of that. And also in the character he and this is this goes for me too. He can play a lot of instruments a little, which is me.
00:23:23
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:23:24
Speaker 1: It's a cool character, right, and you make jokes about it like, oh, I own the bar, which is why they let me play.
00:23:29
Speaker 3: And he's I think he's kind of not beating himself up. I think he kind of accepts who.
00:23:35
Speaker 2: He is, right. I think is very endearing.
00:23:38
Speaker 3: It would have been sad if he was like, oh this always happens. He's just on the next thing, you know, definitely, And so he's a he's detached. There was something sad about him. But I thought, if I, if I even recognize the fact that there's something sad about him, that will have to be that's something that exists for the viewer or anyone else. But I think in his mind he's just like, oh, that channel's on, which the experience, if you have add it's like there are five TVs on and you have to pick the TV that you're actually having a conversation with, right, and just you learn to drown out the other TVs.
00:24:16
Speaker 2: Right.
00:24:18
Speaker 3: But it's that's the fun part is that when there's nothing going on or something goes sideways, you're like, am I gonna watch?
00:24:26
Speaker 2: I think that's great.
00:24:27
Speaker 3: You get all the channels.
00:24:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that. I love that so much. I love it.
00:24:32
Speaker 1: So when you're so you're there and you're playing the bass, and they're sitting right in front of you, Big and Carrie, and you flirt with her and she flirts back, and then Big Big turns around and you send her a note. I was like, Wow, he's so bold. He's so bold. I don't remember any of this, right, It's like I was watching it for the first time, and she is like all giggly and adorable, like very clearly you guys have chemistry, which again is as viewer, I was so relieved that she likes someone new, thank god, right, because they're in this weird like friendly thing. But yet there's so much undertow happening, right, you want her to have something fresh, at least I did. That's how I felt, so then I was really glad. But I also thought that was kind of bold. Like, if a guy and a girl are sitting right in front of you while you're on the stage, would you just.
00:25:16
Speaker 2: Hand the girl a note? I don't know, but it's cool.
00:25:21
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think he's the kind of guy like an idea crosses his mind and if he didn't do it, he'd forget about it.
00:25:26
Speaker 2: Got it? Got it?
00:25:27
Speaker 3: Yeah? I don't know that. But it's also yeah, I'm not that kind of guy. I'm me NEI there, but uh, but I have done that. I'm not setting notes, but I have. I have gone up to women and just asked them out. It's a really terrifying part of being the man.
00:25:41
Speaker 2: It's oh my god, I did it one time. As you know, honestly, I'm aware admired. Oh it was terrifying. I was like, how do they do this? How do they do this?
00:25:51
Speaker 1: And it was it was a terrible, terrible idea that I had. I was on location in Canada working and there was this one guy crew. This is so big of a no no, right, like really bad no no.
00:26:05
Speaker 2: There's this guy on the crew. But he just was that kind of.
00:26:08
Speaker 1: Guy where like he was always watching. He was kind of quiet, but he was always watching and like really good at his job. But not one of the ones where like they're loud and you know, like talking to you, they're just like he was just like kind of you know, confident in in his quiet self, which is always interesting.
00:26:25
Speaker 2: And I just really liked him. And I was so bored.
00:26:29
Speaker 1: At this particular job, Like I didn't have a co star to hang with really, so I was like, I'm just gonna ask that guy out because I would just love to have a conversation with him outside of the set because he was so quiet on the set. Right, Oh my god, horrible idea, horrible idea, just because of this the work situation. Right, I think it's a great idea for women to try doing this because it's not that easy. I mean, maybe the world is different now, but like, also, you don't know their situation.
00:26:55
Speaker 2: You're just walking in like you could. I couldn't research him.
00:26:58
Speaker 1: It was before social media, right, I couldn't ask anybody like what's his deal?
00:27:02
Speaker 3: Right?
00:27:03
Speaker 1: And I never heard him mention a significant other or anything like that. So I asked him and he just stared at his feet and then he was like, I'm really sorry, I can't And I was like, oh, no problem, no problem, because he had a girlfriend, right, which I wouldn't have known.
00:27:16
Speaker 2: And then the whole rest of the job is so awkward. But I was like, I've been there.
00:27:21
Speaker 3: I've been there. Everybody. You got to learn that lesson, Oh nobody can.
00:27:25
Speaker 2: It's so you've.
00:27:27
Speaker 3: Got to live that pain and realize I'm never putting myself this again.
00:27:30
Speaker 1: I know, I know, but I thought to myself at the time, like men do this all the time, Like that is not easy.
00:27:39
Speaker 3: It's not easy. No, No, I think you just gotta yeah, yes, it's not easy.
00:27:46
Speaker 2: No. No. I mean now they're the apps, so I guess you could just go on the apps. Though I me neither okay, me, neither.
00:27:53
Speaker 3: Me neither I'm going to die alone with cats.
00:27:56
Speaker 2: I'm going to die alone with dogs. Apparently that's it.
00:28:00
Speaker 3: That's the way to go.
00:28:01
Speaker 2: Well, that's good. We're in it.
00:28:02
Speaker 1: We're in it together. But not, okay, let's talk about the show. Let's talk about the show.
00:28:06
Speaker 2: So I love when you.
00:28:08
Speaker 1: So we're at your bar, which we find out is your bar because you walk by carry him Big, and.
00:28:13
Speaker 2: They both chat with you. And the thing that I also thought.
00:28:16
Speaker 1: Was interesting because you're like a very cool character, right, and BIG's wearing his beige shuit, which is like the worst side of Big. I think the beigeus brown suit. I'm like, no, So he's wearing his beige suit, and she's obviously, you know, so much more kind of hip and cool and interesting. So you just talked to her and then he's like, oh man, you know, he's nice whatever, And then you guys all end up in this cab, right is that is that?
00:28:43
Speaker 2: Is that night that you end up in the cab?
00:28:45
Speaker 3: He keeps inviting himself along. Basically he's like, yeah, let's get a cab.
00:28:48
Speaker 2: I know it's horrible, it's horrible.
00:28:50
Speaker 3: It was hilarious, and I had forgotten that he she gets out of the car and then drives away and she's looking after him and he starts talking. He got out with her.
00:28:58
Speaker 2: I know it was a really good review. I had totally forgotten it as well.
00:29:02
Speaker 3: I actually thought, oh, that's an uncomfortable ride home. I don't remember shooting that, you know, I don't.
00:29:06
Speaker 2: Remember watching it.
00:29:07
Speaker 1: It's so great, though, Like to see you guys sitting there in the back of a real cab and he's like, cabs suck or whatever. He says, cabs are bad or whatever. I'm like, oh, be quiet, cabs are great, the old, big, big thing. But you're in like a decent sized cab.
00:29:22
Speaker 2: I love that. Yeah, yeah, I know. You are guys, big guys.
00:29:26
Speaker 1: So then she gets out and they're close on her, and you don't realize he's also gotten out, and.
00:29:33
Speaker 2: It's so good.
00:29:34
Speaker 3: Oh.
00:29:34
Speaker 2: I forgot to say. This is directed by Ellen Colter, who we love so much.
00:29:37
Speaker 3: He's the best. He's the best. I did a couple of things with him and he's it's there's always something like that, and you don't normally see that on TV. It's true, you know, it wasn't TV, it was HBO. You no normally see that something like that was that was a really well timed visual joke that you could see in a movie.
00:29:55
Speaker 2: So true, yeah, so true. It was really really good.
00:29:58
Speaker 1: And then you're also like, Big, what are you doing? Like, you know, I was very much with Carrie, like what are you doing? But then luckily she goes upstairs and you call her right away, good one on you, good, good, good one, and you play her jazz, which is adorable, like I like all of the the ray you know, seduction. I think it's really likable. But then of course Big calls while she's on the phone with you, which is like, ah, like you need to just shake him off at this point, right, But then luckily, you know, you guys have great, great, like initial chemistry, and you go out to the opening of Tao, which is kind of funny, and I think we filmed there also later, like maybe Big in Carrie's engagement party, I want to say, because that place was huge, right, so like, and you could do that aerial shot, you know, that's a cool, cool shot.
00:30:51
Speaker 2: I know it was a great shot.
00:30:52
Speaker 1: And I remember when too open, like it was a whole thing, you know what I mean, Like it still is obviously, but it was a whole thing, and you guys are there, but of course Big is there also with a model named Shay or Shaw or something bizarre.
00:31:07
Speaker 2: And she's in the bathroom doing cocaine.
00:31:09
Speaker 1: And you're just like, oh, Big, just go away, and then you very smartly DeCamp to the bar. I thought that was a good move because you don't make a big fuss about it either, right, you just.
00:31:21
Speaker 2: Go over there and she finds you, and you're like, yeah.
00:31:23
Speaker 1: I'm not going back to that table. And I just have to love the lack of drama, you know what I mean, Like, you're just like, this is where I'm at. Obviously there's something weird going on. You don't even really ask her a ton of questions, which I also love.
00:31:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very likable.
00:31:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, the lack of questions. That can mean a couple of things, and I don't it's actually now that I think of a kind of intelligent, because if he's it's sort of your first clue if you watch it again, if you go back and look at I don't think you can tell. But it's very subtle of going he doesn't live in that world, Yes, information is just like he's not going to just you know, I think he says things as he thinks of it, and he is his his bassline is kind of cool, you know, I agree, I agree, And it avoids he I don't think I played this, but he avoids over stimula. You know, he likes jazz, but he doesn't play anything fernetic. It was nice and easy and in a restaurant like that that it's that kind of environment. It's a lot of noise, it's a lot of stimuli. It's really hard to focus and and part of that made sense to me too, that he he sort of has to deal with you know, this is a this is a step deeper. Maybe it's something just for the actor to carry around. It's nothing, it's nothing, that's I mean that the story tells itself. The script is going to tell you everything. But but but I think for me, it was like that made sense to get away from all the noise. And also there's a bit of a situation here. I keep everything, just keep it as simple as possible.
00:32:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, simple. I love that. I love that so much.
00:33:01
Speaker 1: It's really interesting and it's just so nice because it's just so different.
00:33:05
Speaker 2: Right.
00:33:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a nice scene too.
00:33:07
Speaker 2: Was a really good scene. It was excellent.
00:33:10
Speaker 3: Really is the first time they talked.
00:33:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was really really good. And you guys have such easy chemistry. It's just easy.
00:33:18
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well she's wonderful to work with it, I know, very very easy, and she's very present, very.
00:33:25
Speaker 2: Yes, she really really really is.
00:33:27
Speaker 1: And when I look back to I mean, she's so present and so her instincts are so good. Yeah, you know all the time, like so dependable, you know what I mean. Yeah, obviously we know this, but it's fun to talk about it. So let's just talk about try and Charlotte. Oh they're trippy little selves. Oh my gosh. I don't even clearly remember this part at all. I remember Kyle in general obviously, but at this point we're having this bizarre thing where we're having sex and all these weally uh unusual places like a bedroom at a cocktail party with all of the doctors that he works with, like not, it's not like Charlotte. There's times when I look at Charlotte and I'm like, Charlotte's just she's not that mature in certain ways to understand why that would be something he would want to do. Like she's like, I don't understand what's going on. She keeps saying to her friends, Well, because obviously he's he's he's got baggage about relationships, right and like marriage and all the things that are expected of him. So it's much more fun to have sex in a cab. Yeah, you know, that's not like real or whatever. Yeah, but Charlotte's kind of like, I don't.
00:34:38
Speaker 2: Know what's happening, and I'm just so happy that he wants to do anything. It's very interesting.
00:34:43
Speaker 1: It's interesting to watch, but it's also such a kind of like topsy turvy, like turning things upside down, right, Like she wanted this wedding, she wanted this wedding, she got the wedding, then of course there's gonna have to be problems. But now there's like confusion, which I think is also really interesting to see her in. But I think that I had totally forgotten about We're all shopping somewhere, some vintage place, and Charlotte has a hickey, totally forgot about all of this what on her right, And then also Samantha comes over and she's like, oh, look, you're having a good, healthy relationship, and Charlotte's like, oh no.
00:35:17
Speaker 2: If Samantha things is healthy that's a terrible sign.
00:35:21
Speaker 1: Like really funny, really funny, and I didn't remember it at all. So then Charlotte goes to him when he's trying to have sex with her in a very interesting like Indian decorated cab, and she's like, oh, we have to you know, wait five more blocks so we get home, Like why can't we do that? And then he calls her later and apologizes, which is very sweet. But also the thing that I think about watching it back is that the main problem is not the sex. It's that he cannot seem to talk about anything.
00:35:51
Speaker 3: That's a tough one, isn't it. You know, I was rewatching this episode and I've gone through each one of those experiences like they're very relatable, which is part of obviously the soup of the show. It's why it connects so much is that there's so much to connect too. There really is anything that was just it didn't seem like anyway for me, certainly in that episode that there was stuff that was really funny, but it all came out of character and stuff that was really it seemed researched. Like I told you, I really appreciated that. And also the fact that you know. Yeah, I've been. I've been there. It's you know, it's it's but I've been on both sides of the why aren't you talking? What? You know? I want to talk about this, and but it didn't hit but not when I saw the show. But when I did it, I was what thirty six, I guess And now I'm one hundred and eleven. It's different. It's different. It's different. You know, you know, when you're mature and you've you've had some experiences or maybe even been humbled a little bit and say, and then you can see something like that episode and go, yeah, I was I was noncommunicative or oh, it's very It's like a validation to see something on a show that you're familiar with and you love. That tells you it's okay, yeah this happens. Yeah, you know, here's a way to deal with it like it is. It can be kind of instructive.
00:37:29
Speaker 2: Oh I agree, it's super interesting.
00:37:32
Speaker 3: But on that perspective I had that, I thought, oh, this will be nostalgic. But I looked at it and thought, I'm glad I saw that because you know, I had a well, no, I had a research. I was the one who there was somebody else who just wasn't a talker. They just weren't right, you know. And I like to get in there and understand things me too, But it just wasn't that person's style, right, And I saw that it was instructive. I saw that. I said, it's frustrating, But it's okay that it's frustrating, right, I wish I didn't kill them, that was wrong.
00:38:05
Speaker 2: That's true.
00:38:06
Speaker 1: I also think and I hear this from fans a lot too, Like if you watch it, you know, for instance, we were all in our thirties when we were filming this originally, right, and so you're at a certain place in your life then, and you have those experiences that you're thinking of. Then if you might watch it a decade later, you're going to have a whole different set of things that are going to come into your mind when you're watching it. And certainly that's true for me now, eight hundred million years later watching it.
00:38:29
Speaker 2: But yet it holds up and it's relatable.
00:38:32
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, well that's why. I mean, if you look at the really great shows, like some of my favorites anyway, or Dick Van Dyk, Oh, yeah, I actually liked the old Andy Griffith Show, and I noticed, god years ago, I was watching it as an older person, and I just thought, there are no jokes in this. There's not one joke good point, you know, like there's three to the page. You know. Yeah, we were doing sitcoms, but this was they were. It was all on character, was exceptional writing. And you realize most of the people who ran shows back then came directly out of the theater first generation. Yeah, and then and then years later it would be their kids. Yeah. Now it's just people who only know TV. Yeah, it's and it gets softer and softer.
00:39:20
Speaker 2: That's true. That's true. That is true.
00:39:22
Speaker 1: I mean now we also have people where they're kind of creating themselves online somehow.
00:39:29
Speaker 3: It's a whole new thing, and I'm sure good stuff will come out of that. Yeah.
00:39:33
Speaker 1: I mean, if you look at Quinta Brunson, who created Abbot.
00:39:36
Speaker 2: We talked to one of that cast.
00:39:39
Speaker 1: You know, she created her own self online first, but then also created Abbot and learned how to write in that format so brilliantly.
00:39:49
Speaker 2: And then also, I don't know if you.
00:39:50
Speaker 1: Know Benito Skinner, who does Overcompensating on Amazon.
00:39:55
Speaker 2: He is a great. He's young.
00:39:56
Speaker 1: He's young, he's amazing. He created himself online doing like spoof spoofs of the Kardashians basically on Instagram during COVID. But he's super talented, super smart, and he's written.
00:40:10
Speaker 2: He has a podcast, he does it. I don't know if he actually does stand up or just does spoofs.
00:40:15
Speaker 1: He has a whole show that he's written, like an actual single camera basically his life in college, trying to pretend he was straight, trying to make sense of it all overcompensating in every way, and you just think about, you know, good for them that they're finding their way in this new, crazy world that we live in. But yet they still are really like they're studying everything. Like Benito's watched our season. He watches each season like as a you know, technician, trying to take it apart, you know, and learning from what we did, and then also bringing in people to help him. Who are you know, more more schooled or whatever you know in the profession.
00:40:51
Speaker 2: But I love that.
00:40:52
Speaker 1: I love the freshness of it and trying to find your way because it really is no set way too, yeah, no.
00:41:00
Speaker 3: And all it is is, you know, everybody keeps saying, well, the world is changing so much. It's radio, and then it's TV, and now it's the Internet, and now it's vertical. It's like, it's all they are is tubes that information's coming through. The people haven't changed, haven't changed. It's kind of depressing how little we've changed. So the stories, it's still about story and it's just the format that's uh. And I actually find that interesting me too.
00:41:30
Speaker 2: I agree.
00:41:31
Speaker 3: I love as soon as the Internet started coming in and you know, there was this there's gonna be webisodes, I was like, well that was exciting. I want to find out what that is. And I got in my hands dirty and I think it's a very exciting time. And it's all it is is just it's a new plot of land that you have to learn how to work.
00:41:49
Speaker 2: I agree.
00:41:50
Speaker 3: And if you don't, you're going to starve. So don't don't keep returning to the old field thinking that's because that's what gets me depressed, is we're like I just I don't think it's going to go back to what it was.
00:42:01
Speaker 2: I know that is. It is depressing.
00:42:04
Speaker 3: It's a it's a little a little bit, but it's also exciting to be straddling to I mean, not everybody has a life where they're straddling two eras.
00:42:14
Speaker 2: That's true.
00:42:15
Speaker 3: We have the whole sort of like TV, and.
00:42:20
Speaker 2: We did it.
00:42:21
Speaker 3: Yes, it was exciting to grow up. You watch Welcome Back Cotter and then you're go and do a sitcom that's a big Yeah, I love I never did love that.
00:42:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree.
00:42:31
Speaker 3: And you're like, there'll never be another Welcome Back Hotter again, will probably never be the stuff that I did or that we did. It's going to be the same way, so you'll be made a different way because people need stories, definitely.
00:42:43
Speaker 1: But then also Broadway still doing great, right I hope.
00:42:47
Speaker 3: So I don't know, I don't follow that as closed.
00:42:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe they're not doing great great, but they're still there. Let's put it that way.
00:42:53
Speaker 3: You know. I think it's driven by celebrity, which is that it's not always a bad thing, right, and it always has been. It's not like it hasn't been, but it's that's what's preceding, like you can't get a show done.
00:43:06
Speaker 2: That's a good point. Yeah, that's a real life.
00:43:08
Speaker 3: I wouldn't have been cast I wouldn't have been casting music man today. Oh I don't think so. I don't know, I don't think so. It's it's it's possible. And I know even then she was taking a big chance wow, you know, but she felt very strongly about it, and you know she has my allegiance for the rest of my life.
00:43:25
Speaker 2: Absolutely, absolutely, you guys, this is so much fun that we're going to have to have a part two, so join us later in the week on are You a Charlotte
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are you a Charlotte?
00:00:08
Speaker 2: Hi? Everyone, welcome to Are You a Charlotte Today. It's exciting.
00:00:14
Speaker 1: We have Craig Bierco, who plays Raking, the jazz guy.
00:00:19
Speaker 2: Very very very exciting to talk to him.
00:00:22
Speaker 1: His first episode with us aired in two thousand and one June tenth, two thousand and one, and it's called Defining Moments, and it was really really fun to catch up. He's had a really fascinating career and we hear about some very interesting things that he has done in the past. He's really really fun and he's so great as Ray King, as I'm sure you'll all remember. So please enjoy talking with Craig Bierk. Let me just say I'm so, so so excited that you're joining us because I.
00:00:52
Speaker 2: Often think about you.
00:00:53
Speaker 1: I'm like, Craig Vierico came on our show at the weirdest time. You play the most like we were in. We were already in. We had big, we had aiden, there were these long storylines and then we just walked in the middle of it, you know, to play your fantastic jazz man as we call you, who's technically your name is Ray King, Ray k It's a good name. So take us back. What was it like, what do you remember? How did it happen?
00:01:24
Speaker 3: Oh? Well, at the time, I was I think I was on the last part of my year doing The Music Man. Susan Stroman had done a revival of The Music Man and I had been doing that for the year, so I was sort of in that zone, just kind of robotically not doing the show. But you know what it's.
00:01:46
Speaker 2: Like, Yeah, it shows a week full, it shows a week.
00:01:48
Speaker 3: It's it's really something. And so I was I had been doing that for close to a year, and the call came. And as you know, when you're if you're doing a show that's you know, eight a week, you're you're never not completely exhausted, and the the nobody tells you that after you get over the thrill of being on a Broadway show, the single greatest thing about it is that you have license to say no to everything. Everything. You don't have to go anywhere, you don't have to talk to anybody, you can be late, you can not And and this came along in my and a couple of things had come along and I I was really just too tired. It wasn't that it was that some of the things I didn't want to do, but some of the things I just thought, there's no way I could do this. And and this came along and I read it, and I of course, I you know, I wanted to do it, and when I read it, I thought, I can't not do it. I mean, it's I've never read a part like this. I don't know that I've seen a part like that since actually, which is crazy, but I had. I had such a great time. There were a couple of things that you know, I remember, I remember you guys were all unfailingly nice and welcome. Well thanks not It's not always the case, you know, And I've done a couple of shows where I was in your position, and you know, it was it. I remember, you know, I wanted to, you know, pay attention to that example. It's important, I think, I think it is not only just because it's what decent human beings do, but also you're going to get the best performance from a guest the sooner they feel like they're part of the cast, and the more a cast can make them feel like a regular part of the caste Literally, little things like developing inside jokes and stuff like that. It matters. I think I had one scene with the rest of you guys where she introduces me.
00:03:52
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, we didn't have enough stuff with you. We definitely didn't nothing.
00:03:56
Speaker 3: I got no experience with the rest of the gals, which was too bad. But I didn't I enjoyed the storyline.
00:04:04
Speaker 1: You're so good in this character. It's so perfect for you, Like it's a perfect union, don't you think, Well, is that what you mean when you said you haven't gotten that many scripts like this?
00:04:13
Speaker 3: Is?
00:04:13
Speaker 2: Like, what exactly do you mean by that?
00:04:15
Speaker 3: Oh? It is? Yeah, I mean I if I love a script, it can be for any number of reasons it's but for this one, it was what I recognized. I thought, you know, listen, it's a common affliction. I'm not ashamed of it, but I grew up with ADHD and I'd never seen it represented as anything but a comic conceit, and it is used as a bit of a comic conceit. But I do feel also like it's I wouldn't want something like that treated with reverence. I want it. I'd want to look at and if I was going to inhabit it, I would want it to be as close to my own experience as possible, you know, yeah, this case was particularly tents.
00:05:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I.
00:05:03
Speaker 3: Can say there's nothing in that script that I don't recognize.
00:05:06
Speaker 2: Amazing.
00:05:07
Speaker 1: I love that. That's really interesting. I didn't realize that. I didn't realize that, but I guess so perfect.
00:05:13
Speaker 3: That's your writers. And also the in performance too. It was it was immediately comfortable and I and I and it was that old joke like I had lived the trope of the very first job I got, they said, can you ride a horse? I was like, can I ride a horse? And then I went and like had to take course back writing lessons and it was a I almost got killed. But everybody's got stories like that. And there's something about getting on, you know. And another joke that I've always heard but I hadn't experienced until then was you meet somebody and you jump right into bed the most intimate scene. And we had some pretty intimate I mean, you guys got kind of body on the show, which is which is great, yes, but to jump inside.
00:05:57
Speaker 2: Of that, yeah, I mean yeah, yeah, it's a lot was and.
00:06:03
Speaker 3: I remember thinking this is sort of I wonder if this is they throw you into the deep end of the pool. So because there's so much because once that was out of the way and it wasn't any I actually didn't feel uncomfortable because she was so much fun, yeah, and made it so light and not about what it was, and it was technical and she really knows what she's doing obviously, yes, and I felt I just remember walking onto the set and I certain I'm not an arrogant person, So I didn't feel like, all right, line up. I just felt like I felt very at home and comfortable and creative, and that's the most important thing, Like, oh, whatever they've hired me to do, I feel like all my pistons are firing and ready to go.
00:06:43
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:06:44
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what I see when I watch you, and that that's also, I think, such an interesting thing to think about because one of the things that we've talked about amongst ourselves on the podcast, it was when we started the show and the guys would come in and you you were I think, like you were. I mean, but this is just about you as a person too, Like you were on Broadway. You're doing the music man, You're coming in for this part that you already knew it was.
00:07:11
Speaker 2: However, many episodes, right, like was it?
00:07:12
Speaker 3: I can't remember there was two episodes, But I love that. This is one of those shows where people were like that was I loved you on that season?
00:07:19
Speaker 1: Well good, I mean, because that's how I feel about it too. I felt like it was longer, right because like you came on and were immediately able to be fully present, and that's why I think the character stands out like there wasn't like a ramp of learning, like you were just there.
00:07:38
Speaker 3: Yeah. I felt it was very wise. The whole thing was handled very well. And you'd have to tell me if that if that existed before and after in the series and the movies and stuff. But it was very wise to bring me in. And I met with Sarah Jeska. I we just met, We talked, right, and I think we both learned much more more doing that than if it was just a conventional audition.
00:08:03
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and that wasn't always the case on our show. Sometimes, like when we Kyle, they just hired and of course I was like, oh my god, come booklets here. And then with Evan who came on later as Harry, he had to read with me, So it was maybe like his third callback or something, and I remember, you're just dying for those actors, because of course we's all we've all been there. You're just like, it's so nerve.
00:08:26
Speaker 3: Wracking, difficult situation.
00:08:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would have so, I mean, definitely, it's very very clear Jewish get out.
00:08:35
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, don't don't do you need to see it again, none of that stuff. That was the first thing I learned. You just do it and get out, even if you lay a big stink bomber the hell out. That's what I thought. Genius. You don't want that, you're crazy.
00:08:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I agree, and that that was definitely how Evan was, you know, in terms of like he didn't he wasn't asking for a lot. He just was like, this is what I'm going to do. And it was, of course brilliant. But I would have loved to talk to him too. Write We didn't really get that, Like I think I went out into the to the where they were waiting and tried to chat.
00:09:05
Speaker 3: It's fascinating human being sensitive.
00:09:09
Speaker 2: It's so true. It's so true, but so are you.
00:09:11
Speaker 1: And I think at this point in time, to come on our show and be able to just be present with Sarah, you know, and she's she's been going through these long storylines with you know, John and Chris, right, and like you must have been such a breath of fresh air. I don't mean that in a negative way, but like, you know what I'm saying, Like it was so different and when you're rewatching it or watching it the first time, because I don't really remember this part of the show that well, which is interesting.
00:09:38
Speaker 2: Some I remember a lot and some I don't. You're you're, I'm it's so exciting, right, you're watching the show. You're not thinking that she's going to do anything.
00:09:47
Speaker 1: She's literally on a date with Big but not a date, like a non date date, and you're on stage and you're flirting with her, which I also thought was very bold right of your character.
00:09:57
Speaker 2: And then she's she's into it, and you're just.
00:09:59
Speaker 1: So leaved as a viewer that she's into someone new, you know, thank god, thank god. I thought it was so so good, And I really really.
00:10:08
Speaker 3: Didn't have any sense. I didn't have any sense that you didn't know. Something that worked for me was I don't know if it would have made a difference ultimately, but so meeting you guys, I was really meeting you guys. I had seen the show, and my girlfriend at the time, of course, was completely obsessed and loved the show. I didn't have any time, but I also just was it didn't feel like my show. But anytime I had seen it or I watched it with her, I enjoyed it, but not enough to have so much familiarity that when I walked in, I was like, that's.
00:10:41
Speaker 2: The lamp, right, That's a good thing.
00:10:45
Speaker 3: There wasn't any of that. Like I was familiar with the apartment and all that kind of stuff, and I knew who mister Big was. I knew all you guys were. I basically knew the idea of it, and the tone I got was the most important thing, right, especially when you're coming in yeah, and you're you know, your character hasn't met any of the other people, so you're sort of like you haven't landed in this nest. And in each nest, they have their own way of communicating. Like any group of friends, you have your own secret language, your own you know, and and I think that even translates in a in a show or a play that where you're just representing a group of friends. There was very much that it was a very complete organism. Yes, yes, I actually felt like, oh, this is a great I mean, it's definitely a job. I'm not crazy. I know I'm playing the part, but there is this experience of actually meeting these people who I only sort of know, but there wasn't enough familiarity to go.
00:11:46
Speaker 1: Great, right, that's great, that's great to have the kind of balance.
00:11:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, a balance, right.
00:11:51
Speaker 3: I like to a lot of people don't work like that. But whatever's right in front of me, that's what I that's what feels the most alive to me.
00:11:58
Speaker 1: I think, yes, and not all men were good at that, and that's what I wanted to say earlier, but I got off my own track. It was hard in the beginning because in a lot of ways, the men are cast as the girlfriend parts, like what had traditionally been the girlfriend parts that we were very used to doing, right, but it seemed it seems strange for men to be in that position.
00:12:20
Speaker 3: It was great.
00:12:21
Speaker 2: I know, you did just the best job at.
00:12:23
Speaker 3: It, and it was great. It was great for me in a way that like vitamins are great for you. Yes, here's what it's like to you know, to come in and you're basically. I mean, it's a very well written show, but coming in as a guest on shows that are not as well put together, you knows, it's very disoriented.
00:12:44
Speaker 2: It can be yeah, and you and.
00:12:46
Speaker 3: At some point at least this has been my experience. You're like, I just fake it, pretend.
00:12:52
Speaker 2: I'm absolutely, oh absolutely.
00:12:55
Speaker 1: I mean also, I think I don't know how many like half hours you've done or whatever. But there was a time where I decided that I wanted to kind of even after the show was on, I wanted to go and be in different situations. So I went on Will and Grace as a guest star. I went on Friends as a guest star. You know, I had been on Seinfeld already before the show is.
00:13:12
Speaker 2: A gues star.
00:13:13
Speaker 1: You know, each totally totally different experiences because each you know, environment, eco cause them, whatever you want to call it, are They're different, right, and the vibe is different, and the part is different.
00:13:25
Speaker 2: But the thing that would really.
00:13:27
Speaker 1: Frustrate me is that sometimes, especially in the multi camera, they would rewrite your part as the week went on, and You're just like, I don't.
00:13:36
Speaker 2: Know what I'm doing here at all?
00:13:39
Speaker 3: Really hard are There's so many things that like, nobody's going to ask an actor, Hey, if you're going to restructure the network, how would you do it? But hey, some actor. But I really did think after i'd been around the you know, around for a little while, and I had auditioned and tested and even done things that I just thought. I remember reading a book and I read that the Marx Brothers. I'm a huge Marx Brothers fan, and the and they their best movies, Uh, they kind of they they went downhill a little bit towards the end, but their best movies they toured as shows. There's a different world, but they were broad with you know, they toured them, not just some Broadway but in the boonies. And I always thought, why, if you've got a pilot and you're investing millions of dollars into it, and you're taking a risk with all the casting and all that kind of stuff, why don't you have your don't say anything, don't promote the show, just have the writers say we're gonna pick it up, write four episodes. We're gonna go to Eugene or wherever, and we're gonna run it for a month. We're gonna find out worth and we're gonna run four episodes together, cool and just have an evening. I mean they do it now when they bring shows back and they do them live. I mean sort of as a joke and it's campy.
00:14:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, but.
00:15:00
Speaker 3: Sometimes they're not campy. Sometimes they get the original cast and they do them live and they tour. It used to be big, but it's not that big anymore. But I was like, why wouldn't you want to? I mean, it's so great that there's a sex in the city, but you're really just spinning that you're rolling the dice every time you that you're definitely all the elements could have been there. But what if you didn't have the right director, what if the casting wasn't right with one part? What if I mean anything could have happened. Wouldn't you want to iron out all those problems? It always and also you've tested for stuff. Obviously, why are we testing in Eric's office? Why did you build this I'm going off now, Oh, I know, build a fact simile of a sound stage so you can see what we do.
00:15:42
Speaker 1: It's true, it's it's hard to really even imagine that anything ever works.
00:15:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is amazing. Well, it's it's an explanation for why so Little.
00:15:51
Speaker 2: Does That's true too, That's true too.
00:15:53
Speaker 1: But yeah, we were very lucky and that HBO really just trusted us, which was the one that.
00:15:59
Speaker 3: Was a I'm Drew barrymore all of a sudden, but that was a that was It really was a unique time.
00:16:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, it really was. We were so lucky to be there.
00:16:11
Speaker 3: Yeah, HBO was. It was closer to almost what theater was.
00:16:15
Speaker 2: Yep, yep, yep, yep.
00:16:16
Speaker 1: They were like, just go, just go do it. Let's see, let's see what happens. So this episode, I don't even think I said what it was called. It's called Defining Moments. It aired June tenth, two thousand and one. Let me just ask you a brief question about two thousand and one. This is how I remember the summer of two thousand and one, because we would have gone back to filming in like February, and then the episodes would have aired, you know, kind of as we went, and I remember this summer is just being this incredible, kind of like intense time of everything was amazing in New York and the summer of two thousand and right, summer, do you remember that the weather was beautiful, things were just exciting.
00:17:07
Speaker 3: It was right before the world what.
00:17:08
Speaker 2: Nuts exactly exactly. It was like, yeah, that's how I felt as well.
00:17:13
Speaker 1: And I just feel like it was everything was like brighter, you know, it was it was like a almost.
00:17:18
Speaker 2: Like a technicolor summer, you.
00:17:21
Speaker 3: Know, yes, yes, beautiful.
00:17:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, before things change. So I'm glad that you were a part of our world in that, in that glorious summer.
00:17:28
Speaker 2: Yeah. What was the response after you were on the show and it aired.
00:17:32
Speaker 3: It's immediate. It's the close I mean, I'm not not in terms of quality, but it was the closest experience I ever had to like maybe being on a soap or something, because of the level of familiarity and the sense of propriety that.
00:17:50
Speaker 2: People have with the definitely yes.
00:17:52
Speaker 3: They're actually they're the They're people walking around thinking you're their actual friends. And and so when I went out that night that point when the show aired, I was living up on eighty sixth Street, and I went out for a walk right afterwards, just to get something to eat, and a woman walked right up to me and said, are you going to hurt her? Yeah, it's not a great question to ask of large man in New York city. But yeah, it was, and I realized, oh, she's she meant carry and I went, oh, And she wasn't crazy. She just said, please tell me what's going to happen. I said, I really have no idea, but I wouldn't count. And that was when I realized, I think any guys that aren't mister Big or essentially different grades of the guys on Star Trek with the Red Shirts, we're going back down to the planet. But we're not coming back. We're not coming back.
00:18:47
Speaker 2: No, I mean, you never know, right, you never know. I guess you were right. I guess you were right. So was it? Were people ever mad at you? Like about what?
00:18:57
Speaker 3: Oh?
00:18:58
Speaker 2: No?
00:18:58
Speaker 3: They love the show. And to this day, if if I get I can usually tell now I've got, I've accumulated a body of work. I can usually tell here comes the sex and the city person. I can usually tell for sure. And I'm the thing as I get older, the thing that pleases me most of course, is that it's like I must be within the weight range.
00:19:21
Speaker 1: So I mean, we're recognizing, we feel this, okay, we all feel the.
00:19:27
Speaker 2: Pressure of that.
00:19:28
Speaker 3: Terrific. Actually, thank you so much.
00:19:32
Speaker 2: Thank you, so do you so do you the hair.
00:19:34
Speaker 1: I just' you've got great, great hair, great great hair. Okay, so let's talk about the episode for a little bit. The thing that's funny to me about this episode is the incredible cast. We've got yourself, We've got Kyle of course, We've got Sonia Braga comes on, which.
00:19:48
Speaker 2: Is like, how on earth did this even really happen?
00:19:51
Speaker 3: Right?
00:19:51
Speaker 1: And then we've got Jim Gavigan, who's playing this kind of like slightly horrible man.
00:19:58
Speaker 2: At least that's my whatever.
00:19:59
Speaker 1: But I I remember I knew of him and his stand up, but like he's done so incredibly well, Like it's so wonderful to see.
00:20:07
Speaker 2: And he's a sweet See.
00:20:08
Speaker 3: I auditioned with him all the time. I don't know why they always put us together, but a couple of times we auditioned for things to get interesting. Such a good actor, very actor.
00:20:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a very nice guy.
00:20:19
Speaker 3: And I'm happy for him too, me too. It was an incredible cast. I couldn't believe who was there.
00:20:24
Speaker 2: I know, I mean, like, it's it's pretty exciting, and.
00:20:26
Speaker 3: I got to work with none of you. I know.
00:20:29
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. I'm sorry you were siloed into the carry world.
00:20:32
Speaker 3: That's all right. I was a happy camper.
00:20:34
Speaker 1: Definitely, definitely, and it's so great. So you guys, so basically Big we started the show, Big and Carrie are friends because she has called him on her birthday because she feels bad that no man cares about her on her birthday, which is very relatable, of course. But Big is back, but they're friends, which is weird to watch, I think, And they go to the Monkey Bar.
00:20:55
Speaker 3: Why did you think it was weird to watch?
00:20:57
Speaker 1: I think it's weird to watch, I think because we have invested so much into the Big and Carrie relationship.
00:21:05
Speaker 2: They've been through so much, so to see.
00:21:08
Speaker 1: Kind of like a light version, you know, because the chemistry is still there, obviously, but also she's trying to protect herself and he's being his charming self.
00:21:18
Speaker 2: You know, there's many aside.
00:21:20
Speaker 3: It's obviously. I mean I watched that scene again and in the car and I just thought, oh, he's hurting.
00:21:27
Speaker 2: Definitely, I mean, definitely, I love that scene in the car so much. I didn't remember it at all. I remember you being there, and I remember you wearing that hat. I remember your presence. I know, I know.
00:21:39
Speaker 1: I don't know why you wear that why.
00:21:43
Speaker 3: I kept asking if I could take it off, and they were like, they call you you know.
00:21:47
Speaker 1: I was like, thank god, you take it off when you do, Okay.
00:21:50
Speaker 3: I kept taking it off.
00:21:52
Speaker 1: I get it, man, we have a whole hat situation in our world where the costume people love the hat.
00:21:58
Speaker 2: Sarah loves your hat.
00:21:59
Speaker 3: I get it. And it's a fashion forward show.
00:22:01
Speaker 2: It is it is.
00:22:02
Speaker 3: I also don't know. I can't tell you how many times I've got a friend who's got a much better sense of fashion than I do. And if I go, if I need a suit, I just take him and I buy what he says because I can't tell.
00:22:13
Speaker 1: So I'm kind of with you. Yeah, I'm not the best. I try to pretend like I am, but I'm not. The thing about you is that you're so tall, right, So you're so tall, so to put a hat on you does really make you specific Like from that perspective as a character, it very much makes sense.
00:22:29
Speaker 2: So I love that you're up there. Then they go.
00:22:30
Speaker 1: Then he takes her for some reason downtown below fourteenth Street. He says, to a jazz bar, and she doesn't know anything about jazz, which is also kind of funny. I mean, okay, Carrie, and there you are right in front of her playing the bass.
00:22:44
Speaker 2: Did you know how to play the bass?
00:22:45
Speaker 3: No? They came in and I still have it. Oh I should have found it and dug it up. But they gave me a tape to listen to the song that was going to be playing cool. And then I think somebody I think I seem to remember there was a bass player may have showed up the first day who told me because there is a shot where you see I'm playing right, and it was they wanted like two or three notes, so I learned those.
00:23:08
Speaker 2: God it okay.
00:23:09
Speaker 3: We had to learn trombone from music man, so I wasn't afraid of that. And also in the character he and this is this goes for me too. He can play a lot of instruments a little, which is me.
00:23:23
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:23:24
Speaker 1: It's a cool character, right, and you make jokes about it like, oh, I own the bar, which is why they let me play.
00:23:29
Speaker 3: And he's I think he's kind of not beating himself up. I think he kind of accepts who.
00:23:35
Speaker 2: He is, right. I think is very endearing.
00:23:38
Speaker 3: It would have been sad if he was like, oh this always happens. He's just on the next thing, you know, definitely, And so he's a he's detached. There was something sad about him. But I thought, if I, if I even recognize the fact that there's something sad about him, that will have to be that's something that exists for the viewer or anyone else. But I think in his mind he's just like, oh, that channel's on, which the experience, if you have add it's like there are five TVs on and you have to pick the TV that you're actually having a conversation with, right, and just you learn to drown out the other TVs.
00:24:16
Speaker 2: Right.
00:24:18
Speaker 3: But it's that's the fun part is that when there's nothing going on or something goes sideways, you're like, am I gonna watch?
00:24:26
Speaker 2: I think that's great.
00:24:27
Speaker 3: You get all the channels.
00:24:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that. I love that so much. I love it.
00:24:32
Speaker 1: So when you're so you're there and you're playing the bass, and they're sitting right in front of you, Big and Carrie, and you flirt with her and she flirts back, and then Big Big turns around and you send her a note. I was like, Wow, he's so bold. He's so bold. I don't remember any of this, right, It's like I was watching it for the first time, and she is like all giggly and adorable, like very clearly you guys have chemistry, which again is as viewer, I was so relieved that she likes someone new, thank god, right, because they're in this weird like friendly thing. But yet there's so much undertow happening, right, you want her to have something fresh, at least I did. That's how I felt, so then I was really glad. But I also thought that was kind of bold. Like, if a guy and a girl are sitting right in front of you while you're on the stage, would you just.
00:25:16
Speaker 2: Hand the girl a note? I don't know, but it's cool.
00:25:21
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think he's the kind of guy like an idea crosses his mind and if he didn't do it, he'd forget about it.
00:25:26
Speaker 2: Got it? Got it?
00:25:27
Speaker 3: Yeah? I don't know that. But it's also yeah, I'm not that kind of guy. I'm me NEI there, but uh, but I have done that. I'm not setting notes, but I have. I have gone up to women and just asked them out. It's a really terrifying part of being the man.
00:25:41
Speaker 2: It's oh my god, I did it one time. As you know, honestly, I'm aware admired. Oh it was terrifying. I was like, how do they do this? How do they do this?
00:25:51
Speaker 1: And it was it was a terrible, terrible idea that I had. I was on location in Canada working and there was this one guy crew. This is so big of a no no, right, like really bad no no.
00:26:05
Speaker 2: There's this guy on the crew. But he just was that kind of.
00:26:08
Speaker 1: Guy where like he was always watching. He was kind of quiet, but he was always watching and like really good at his job. But not one of the ones where like they're loud and you know, like talking to you, they're just like he was just like kind of you know, confident in in his quiet self, which is always interesting.
00:26:25
Speaker 2: And I just really liked him. And I was so bored.
00:26:29
Speaker 1: At this particular job, Like I didn't have a co star to hang with really, so I was like, I'm just gonna ask that guy out because I would just love to have a conversation with him outside of the set because he was so quiet on the set. Right, Oh my god, horrible idea, horrible idea, just because of this the work situation. Right, I think it's a great idea for women to try doing this because it's not that easy. I mean, maybe the world is different now, but like, also, you don't know their situation.
00:26:55
Speaker 2: You're just walking in like you could. I couldn't research him.
00:26:58
Speaker 1: It was before social media, right, I couldn't ask anybody like what's his deal?
00:27:02
Speaker 3: Right?
00:27:03
Speaker 1: And I never heard him mention a significant other or anything like that. So I asked him and he just stared at his feet and then he was like, I'm really sorry, I can't And I was like, oh, no problem, no problem, because he had a girlfriend, right, which I wouldn't have known.
00:27:16
Speaker 2: And then the whole rest of the job is so awkward. But I was like, I've been there.
00:27:21
Speaker 3: I've been there. Everybody. You got to learn that lesson, Oh nobody can.
00:27:25
Speaker 2: It's so you've.
00:27:27
Speaker 3: Got to live that pain and realize I'm never putting myself this again.
00:27:30
Speaker 1: I know, I know, but I thought to myself at the time, like men do this all the time, Like that is not easy.
00:27:39
Speaker 3: It's not easy. No, No, I think you just gotta yeah, yes, it's not easy.
00:27:46
Speaker 2: No. No. I mean now they're the apps, so I guess you could just go on the apps. Though I me neither okay, me, neither.
00:27:53
Speaker 3: Me neither I'm going to die alone with cats.
00:27:56
Speaker 2: I'm going to die alone with dogs. Apparently that's it.
00:28:00
Speaker 3: That's the way to go.
00:28:01
Speaker 2: Well, that's good. We're in it.
00:28:02
Speaker 1: We're in it together. But not, okay, let's talk about the show. Let's talk about the show.
00:28:06
Speaker 2: So I love when you.
00:28:08
Speaker 1: So we're at your bar, which we find out is your bar because you walk by carry him Big, and.
00:28:13
Speaker 2: They both chat with you. And the thing that I also thought.
00:28:16
Speaker 1: Was interesting because you're like a very cool character, right, and BIG's wearing his beige shuit, which is like the worst side of Big. I think the beigeus brown suit. I'm like, no, So he's wearing his beige suit, and she's obviously, you know, so much more kind of hip and cool and interesting. So you just talked to her and then he's like, oh man, you know, he's nice whatever, And then you guys all end up in this cab, right is that is that?
00:28:43
Speaker 2: Is that night that you end up in the cab?
00:28:45
Speaker 3: He keeps inviting himself along. Basically he's like, yeah, let's get a cab.
00:28:48
Speaker 2: I know it's horrible, it's horrible.
00:28:50
Speaker 3: It was hilarious, and I had forgotten that he she gets out of the car and then drives away and she's looking after him and he starts talking. He got out with her.
00:28:58
Speaker 2: I know it was a really good review. I had totally forgotten it as well.
00:29:02
Speaker 3: I actually thought, oh, that's an uncomfortable ride home. I don't remember shooting that, you know, I don't.
00:29:06
Speaker 2: Remember watching it.
00:29:07
Speaker 1: It's so great, though, Like to see you guys sitting there in the back of a real cab and he's like, cabs suck or whatever. He says, cabs are bad or whatever. I'm like, oh, be quiet, cabs are great, the old, big, big thing. But you're in like a decent sized cab.
00:29:22
Speaker 2: I love that. Yeah, yeah, I know. You are guys, big guys.
00:29:26
Speaker 1: So then she gets out and they're close on her, and you don't realize he's also gotten out, and.
00:29:33
Speaker 2: It's so good.
00:29:34
Speaker 3: Oh.
00:29:34
Speaker 2: I forgot to say. This is directed by Ellen Colter, who we love so much.
00:29:37
Speaker 3: He's the best. He's the best. I did a couple of things with him and he's it's there's always something like that, and you don't normally see that on TV. It's true, you know, it wasn't TV, it was HBO. You no normally see that something like that was that was a really well timed visual joke that you could see in a movie.
00:29:55
Speaker 2: So true, yeah, so true. It was really really good.
00:29:58
Speaker 1: And then you're also like, Big, what are you doing? Like, you know, I was very much with Carrie, like what are you doing? But then luckily she goes upstairs and you call her right away, good one on you, good, good, good one, and you play her jazz, which is adorable, like I like all of the the ray you know, seduction. I think it's really likable. But then of course Big calls while she's on the phone with you, which is like, ah, like you need to just shake him off at this point, right, But then luckily, you know, you guys have great, great, like initial chemistry, and you go out to the opening of Tao, which is kind of funny, and I think we filmed there also later, like maybe Big in Carrie's engagement party, I want to say, because that place was huge, right, so like, and you could do that aerial shot, you know, that's a cool, cool shot.
00:30:51
Speaker 2: I know it was a great shot.
00:30:52
Speaker 1: And I remember when too open, like it was a whole thing, you know what I mean, Like it still is obviously, but it was a whole thing, and you guys are there, but of course Big is there also with a model named Shay or Shaw or something bizarre.
00:31:07
Speaker 2: And she's in the bathroom doing cocaine.
00:31:09
Speaker 1: And you're just like, oh, Big, just go away, and then you very smartly DeCamp to the bar. I thought that was a good move because you don't make a big fuss about it either, right, you just.
00:31:21
Speaker 2: Go over there and she finds you, and you're like, yeah.
00:31:23
Speaker 1: I'm not going back to that table. And I just have to love the lack of drama, you know what I mean, Like, you're just like, this is where I'm at. Obviously there's something weird going on. You don't even really ask her a ton of questions, which I also love.
00:31:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very likable.
00:31:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, the lack of questions. That can mean a couple of things, and I don't it's actually now that I think of a kind of intelligent, because if he's it's sort of your first clue if you watch it again, if you go back and look at I don't think you can tell. But it's very subtle of going he doesn't live in that world, Yes, information is just like he's not going to just you know, I think he says things as he thinks of it, and he is his his bassline is kind of cool, you know, I agree, I agree, And it avoids he I don't think I played this, but he avoids over stimula. You know, he likes jazz, but he doesn't play anything fernetic. It was nice and easy and in a restaurant like that that it's that kind of environment. It's a lot of noise, it's a lot of stimuli. It's really hard to focus and and part of that made sense to me too, that he he sort of has to deal with you know, this is a this is a step deeper. Maybe it's something just for the actor to carry around. It's nothing, it's nothing, that's I mean that the story tells itself. The script is going to tell you everything. But but but I think for me, it was like that made sense to get away from all the noise. And also there's a bit of a situation here. I keep everything, just keep it as simple as possible.
00:32:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, simple. I love that. I love that so much.
00:33:01
Speaker 1: It's really interesting and it's just so nice because it's just so different.
00:33:05
Speaker 2: Right.
00:33:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a nice scene too.
00:33:07
Speaker 2: Was a really good scene. It was excellent.
00:33:10
Speaker 3: Really is the first time they talked.
00:33:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was really really good. And you guys have such easy chemistry. It's just easy.
00:33:18
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well she's wonderful to work with it, I know, very very easy, and she's very present, very.
00:33:25
Speaker 2: Yes, she really really really is.
00:33:27
Speaker 1: And when I look back to I mean, she's so present and so her instincts are so good. Yeah, you know all the time, like so dependable, you know what I mean. Yeah, obviously we know this, but it's fun to talk about it. So let's just talk about try and Charlotte. Oh they're trippy little selves. Oh my gosh. I don't even clearly remember this part at all. I remember Kyle in general obviously, but at this point we're having this bizarre thing where we're having sex and all these weally uh unusual places like a bedroom at a cocktail party with all of the doctors that he works with, like not, it's not like Charlotte. There's times when I look at Charlotte and I'm like, Charlotte's just she's not that mature in certain ways to understand why that would be something he would want to do. Like she's like, I don't understand what's going on. She keeps saying to her friends, Well, because obviously he's he's he's got baggage about relationships, right and like marriage and all the things that are expected of him. So it's much more fun to have sex in a cab. Yeah, you know, that's not like real or whatever. Yeah, but Charlotte's kind of like, I don't.
00:34:38
Speaker 2: Know what's happening, and I'm just so happy that he wants to do anything. It's very interesting.
00:34:43
Speaker 1: It's interesting to watch, but it's also such a kind of like topsy turvy, like turning things upside down, right, Like she wanted this wedding, she wanted this wedding, she got the wedding, then of course there's gonna have to be problems. But now there's like confusion, which I think is also really interesting to see her in. But I think that I had totally forgotten about We're all shopping somewhere, some vintage place, and Charlotte has a hickey, totally forgot about all of this what on her right, And then also Samantha comes over and she's like, oh, look, you're having a good, healthy relationship, and Charlotte's like, oh no.
00:35:17
Speaker 2: If Samantha things is healthy that's a terrible sign.
00:35:21
Speaker 1: Like really funny, really funny, and I didn't remember it at all. So then Charlotte goes to him when he's trying to have sex with her in a very interesting like Indian decorated cab, and she's like, oh, we have to you know, wait five more blocks so we get home, Like why can't we do that? And then he calls her later and apologizes, which is very sweet. But also the thing that I think about watching it back is that the main problem is not the sex. It's that he cannot seem to talk about anything.
00:35:51
Speaker 3: That's a tough one, isn't it. You know, I was rewatching this episode and I've gone through each one of those experiences like they're very relatable, which is part of obviously the soup of the show. It's why it connects so much is that there's so much to connect too. There really is anything that was just it didn't seem like anyway for me, certainly in that episode that there was stuff that was really funny, but it all came out of character and stuff that was really it seemed researched. Like I told you, I really appreciated that. And also the fact that you know. Yeah, I've been. I've been there. It's you know, it's it's but I've been on both sides of the why aren't you talking? What? You know? I want to talk about this, and but it didn't hit but not when I saw the show. But when I did it, I was what thirty six, I guess And now I'm one hundred and eleven. It's different. It's different. It's different. You know, you know, when you're mature and you've you've had some experiences or maybe even been humbled a little bit and say, and then you can see something like that episode and go, yeah, I was I was noncommunicative or oh, it's very It's like a validation to see something on a show that you're familiar with and you love. That tells you it's okay, yeah this happens. Yeah, you know, here's a way to deal with it like it is. It can be kind of instructive.
00:37:29
Speaker 2: Oh I agree, it's super interesting.
00:37:32
Speaker 3: But on that perspective I had that, I thought, oh, this will be nostalgic. But I looked at it and thought, I'm glad I saw that because you know, I had a well, no, I had a research. I was the one who there was somebody else who just wasn't a talker. They just weren't right, you know. And I like to get in there and understand things me too, But it just wasn't that person's style, right, And I saw that it was instructive. I saw that. I said, it's frustrating, But it's okay that it's frustrating, right, I wish I didn't kill them, that was wrong.
00:38:05
Speaker 2: That's true.
00:38:06
Speaker 1: I also think and I hear this from fans a lot too, Like if you watch it, you know, for instance, we were all in our thirties when we were filming this originally, right, and so you're at a certain place in your life then, and you have those experiences that you're thinking of. Then if you might watch it a decade later, you're going to have a whole different set of things that are going to come into your mind when you're watching it. And certainly that's true for me now, eight hundred million years later watching it.
00:38:29
Speaker 2: But yet it holds up and it's relatable.
00:38:32
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, well that's why. I mean, if you look at the really great shows, like some of my favorites anyway, or Dick Van Dyk, Oh, yeah, I actually liked the old Andy Griffith Show, and I noticed, god years ago, I was watching it as an older person, and I just thought, there are no jokes in this. There's not one joke good point, you know, like there's three to the page. You know. Yeah, we were doing sitcoms, but this was they were. It was all on character, was exceptional writing. And you realize most of the people who ran shows back then came directly out of the theater first generation. Yeah, and then and then years later it would be their kids. Yeah. Now it's just people who only know TV. Yeah, it's and it gets softer and softer.
00:39:20
Speaker 2: That's true. That's true. That is true.
00:39:22
Speaker 1: I mean now we also have people where they're kind of creating themselves online somehow.
00:39:29
Speaker 3: It's a whole new thing, and I'm sure good stuff will come out of that. Yeah.
00:39:33
Speaker 1: I mean, if you look at Quinta Brunson, who created Abbot.
00:39:36
Speaker 2: We talked to one of that cast.
00:39:39
Speaker 1: You know, she created her own self online first, but then also created Abbot and learned how to write in that format so brilliantly.
00:39:49
Speaker 2: And then also, I don't know if you.
00:39:50
Speaker 1: Know Benito Skinner, who does Overcompensating on Amazon.
00:39:55
Speaker 2: He is a great. He's young.
00:39:56
Speaker 1: He's young, he's amazing. He created himself online doing like spoof spoofs of the Kardashians basically on Instagram during COVID. But he's super talented, super smart, and he's written.
00:40:10
Speaker 2: He has a podcast, he does it. I don't know if he actually does stand up or just does spoofs.
00:40:15
Speaker 1: He has a whole show that he's written, like an actual single camera basically his life in college, trying to pretend he was straight, trying to make sense of it all overcompensating in every way, and you just think about, you know, good for them that they're finding their way in this new, crazy world that we live in. But yet they still are really like they're studying everything. Like Benito's watched our season. He watches each season like as a you know, technician, trying to take it apart, you know, and learning from what we did, and then also bringing in people to help him. Who are you know, more more schooled or whatever you know in the profession.
00:40:51
Speaker 2: But I love that.
00:40:52
Speaker 1: I love the freshness of it and trying to find your way because it really is no set way too, yeah, no.
00:41:00
Speaker 3: And all it is is, you know, everybody keeps saying, well, the world is changing so much. It's radio, and then it's TV, and now it's the Internet, and now it's vertical. It's like, it's all they are is tubes that information's coming through. The people haven't changed, haven't changed. It's kind of depressing how little we've changed. So the stories, it's still about story and it's just the format that's uh. And I actually find that interesting me too.
00:41:30
Speaker 2: I agree.
00:41:31
Speaker 3: I love as soon as the Internet started coming in and you know, there was this there's gonna be webisodes, I was like, well that was exciting. I want to find out what that is. And I got in my hands dirty and I think it's a very exciting time. And it's all it is is just it's a new plot of land that you have to learn how to work.
00:41:49
Speaker 2: I agree.
00:41:50
Speaker 3: And if you don't, you're going to starve. So don't don't keep returning to the old field thinking that's because that's what gets me depressed, is we're like I just I don't think it's going to go back to what it was.
00:42:01
Speaker 2: I know that is. It is depressing.
00:42:04
Speaker 3: It's a it's a little a little bit, but it's also exciting to be straddling to I mean, not everybody has a life where they're straddling two eras.
00:42:14
Speaker 2: That's true.
00:42:15
Speaker 3: We have the whole sort of like TV, and.
00:42:20
Speaker 2: We did it.
00:42:21
Speaker 3: Yes, it was exciting to grow up. You watch Welcome Back Cotter and then you're go and do a sitcom that's a big Yeah, I love I never did love that.
00:42:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree.
00:42:31
Speaker 3: And you're like, there'll never be another Welcome Back Hotter again, will probably never be the stuff that I did or that we did. It's going to be the same way, so you'll be made a different way because people need stories, definitely.
00:42:43
Speaker 1: But then also Broadway still doing great, right I hope.
00:42:47
Speaker 3: So I don't know, I don't follow that as closed.
00:42:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe they're not doing great great, but they're still there. Let's put it that way.
00:42:53
Speaker 3: You know. I think it's driven by celebrity, which is that it's not always a bad thing, right, and it always has been. It's not like it hasn't been, but it's that's what's preceding, like you can't get a show done.
00:43:06
Speaker 2: That's a good point. Yeah, that's a real life.
00:43:08
Speaker 3: I wouldn't have been cast I wouldn't have been casting music man today. Oh I don't think so. I don't know, I don't think so. It's it's it's possible. And I know even then she was taking a big chance wow, you know, but she felt very strongly about it, and you know she has my allegiance for the rest of my life.
00:43:25
Speaker 2: Absolutely, absolutely, you guys, this is so much fun that we're going to have to have a part two, so join us later in the week on are You a Charlotte