The Hunk Is Back. Jason Lewis is here!

00:00:01
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are you a Charlotte? Okay, so we have the fantastic Jason Lewis here with us. Listen. You have so much weird and interesting stuff going on that I don't even really know where to begin. Normally, where I would begin was going back in time, but I want to do that in a minute, because right now, First of all, have you moved to Costa Rica one hundred percent more or less.

00:00:27
Speaker 2: I'm not like a citizen there, but it's definitely where I'm hanging my hat.

00:00:32
Speaker 1: Do you have a place here?

00:00:33
Speaker 2: No? Wow? Yes?

00:00:35
Speaker 1: Amazing? And when did that happen?

00:00:38
Speaker 2: About three years ago?

00:00:39
Speaker 1: Wow? So what was that COVID or just after COVID.

00:00:42
Speaker 2: No, it was after COVID. I just I sat down at one point and I wanted did a life by design? I started listing what did I want life to look like? Top of list is I used to be able to speak a pretty decent French and Italian, but nobody uses that in the States. And so I just started learning Spanish, and I want to learn Spanish. And I wanted to be where the water is warm, I could be healthy. Food's amazing. And I want to write a book.

00:01:15
Speaker 1: So so you already had the desire to write a book before you moved there.

00:01:19
Speaker 2: I started outlining the series of novels in September before COVID. So for me, COVID was an obsessive figuring out the arc of nine different books, like I had posted notes.

00:01:35
Speaker 1: On the ceiling and okay, so so back up a bit, back up a bit. Had you ever written before?

00:01:41
Speaker 2: Yes, I've written for years.

00:01:43
Speaker 1: Okay, like just for yourself or for well.

00:01:47
Speaker 2: My inner critic never really let me share. There's an irograph glass. He talked about the idea of you know, we get into creative pursuits because of our taste, but it's a long journey and every artist should know that from where you enter through your taste and being able to execute on them.

00:02:06
Speaker 1: That makes sense.

00:02:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so I never really wrote anything that I felt, you know, I could tell the difference between reading something that was excellent in my story.

00:02:16
Speaker 1: But you were like creatively internally drawn to writing for a long long time.

00:02:21
Speaker 2: I'd probably written seven scripts before I wrote that, And actually at first I thought, you know, I'll write this as because you know, I'm just coming from being Intellivision and film. I was like, I'll write it as a series, right, And the more I explored it, the idea of writing a novel was outside because I kind of didn't have the permission of self to do it. But the more I looked at it, I was like, look, I have to be economical if I write this as a screenplay, right, as a series. If I want to create the world that's in my head, write it as a novel.

00:03:00
Speaker 1: Okay, So let's talk about the world that's in your head. Because so you're saying that this is going to be a series of nine books.

00:03:06
Speaker 2: That's what I've plotted.

00:03:07
Speaker 1: That's crazy.

00:03:09
Speaker 2: To be clear, I'm only on the first one.

00:03:10
Speaker 1: Cool, that's cool, But you have posted for nine. Yeah, I can't say it's all digital now, okay, got it? Whatever. In my mind, it's a room full of post its. But you did you previously like fantasy and sci fi? Is that? Are we in the Sciphi or the fantasy everything?

00:03:27
Speaker 2: I'm a I've always been a story lover. I mean I worked in libraries as a kid. Oh, I'd go to the movies by myself. So I'm an old style geek adorable So I've loved every genre. I mean, like you know, I love like you know, you get somebody like Hemingway in the Economy or you know, grim dark fantasy like Joe Abercomy is my favorites today. Okay, Tolkien I've probably read three times and similarly and and you know.

00:03:57
Speaker 1: So we're like that, like that's our our mode, like like a rich world that you've created.

00:04:04
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, so it's not Earth, it's human like people, it's a it's a different universe.

00:04:11
Speaker 1: Okay, so so so so you're you're here, but you're not you're here right when this happens, like you're living in la Yeah.

00:04:21
Speaker 2: I was in lost Ales when I started penning it.

00:04:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, but then you're thinking to yourself like I want to change, I want to live somewhere where I can be healthier or yeah.

00:04:29
Speaker 2: You know, you step into any pursuit with a general idea of what you're getting into. I had no idea what I was really diving into. And as it kept expanding and it became central focus, I realized that I meant it and to do I'm on the fourth draft of Number seven, which I started with book the Ending Sagas, so I'm going to write the ending of the story and then work my way back to the origin. And it's an eight hundred page book right now, so I needed that focus and dedication to like, hopefully it'll be Wow.

00:05:13
Speaker 1: Did you study writing or did you get some help or did you did you?

00:05:20
Speaker 2: I've always written, Like again, I always love story, and so I've always like expressed it, you know, through short stories or poems or whatever, just growing up. No, I think that it's important to study. I think there's no one answer. You have to find your own path. You know, there's you know, a common idea of plotzers and panthers. You know, do you write by the sea? I think it's a combination of both. I tend to integrate a lot of different structure, things like I'm a big fan of the heroine's journey. You know, we classically think of story as the hero's journey, but Haroin's journey is more found family and growth instead of I go into the world alone and I can never return because I've seen too much. Yeah, and I think those stories are still great, but I also don't think they serve as well for learning a growth or today's world. Interesting.

00:06:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, but did you like did you just kind of self study those types of ideas.

00:06:17
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean I read a lot of books. There's a lot of material out there. I went to writing ceremoniars to.

00:06:23
Speaker 1: Oh cool cool. So you were doing that like.

00:06:25
Speaker 2: Back, I've been doing that forever.

00:06:27
Speaker 1: That's so amazing, And so in your mind you kind of thought, oh, maybe a script. Then you're like, no, I don't want to be economical. I want to just write like I just want to go.

00:06:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's look the thing I'm making. I was like, nobody's going to hand me HBO money and they'll get you know, just chopped into the little bad pieces of the vision.

00:06:47
Speaker 1: I was very realistic. Yeah.

00:06:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, purely speaking, it also means control because not the talk business, but let's talk business. Yeah, you write a screenplay, somebody options that they hold that property, and you know they can hold it for just the loss on their books and you never get to do a damn thing with it. That's right. But if I write a novel, I can lease that and continue to develop my idea for as far as I want. Yeah, So it just made sense for pure freedom of expression.

00:07:19
Speaker 1: Wow. So then you're thinking, okay, so I want to live somewhere different where I can be healthy and have warm water. And you so you had you gone to Costa Rica and you just loved it.

00:07:31
Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh yeah, I've been a water baby forever, so I've probably been to Coast Streak. Matter of fact, I just got back from Coast Strica two days before I for the first time book Sex and the City.

00:07:43
Speaker 1: You're kidding.

00:07:44
Speaker 2: No, Well that's.

00:07:45
Speaker 1: A good segue. Let's discuss that. So so you know, it's funny because part of the joy of rewatching the show because I haven't watched it, you know, since the beginning, since we were doing it, right, I don't remember hardly anything of this whole phase that we're in. I remembered a lot of the beginning, and I remember when you came. I have memories of you coming. I have memories of the stress of finding the guy, right, like you remember I didn't have to deal with that, right, but I mean it was a big deal. Like they were very into your part, and you know, then you showed up and they were like, thank God, we found the guy. But I don't know what that experience was like for you because I never asked you because we were in the middle of film, like, I don't remember asking you questions like this back then.

00:08:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean right, yeah. I think actually having been in Kostriaca helped a lot because I had that kind of just zen thing going.

00:08:37
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

00:08:39
Speaker 2: And ultimately, if you look at like Sex and the City's good writing, Michael Patrick, King and the whole team, Cindy and all them, they were good writers because he didn't just make it about the superfluous the sex and say it was about you four girls, your friendships and your growth. And the guys were articulations of that. Yes, you know, you were the hub and we were spokes.

00:09:02
Speaker 1: Yes, And sometimes you were obstacles and sometimes you were conduits, right, and you're a conduit, which is so exciting to get that mess.

00:09:10
Speaker 2: So that's what I think. You know, I'm being serious with the zen Coastreakan thing because when you look at Samantha's character, her issues were vulnerability, you know, rebellion, pushing back, feeling safe to let herself be seen. And you know Richard did her note well, you know the first time she shows herself as being vulnerables, she paid the price. So Smith's character was somebody who could offer acceptance and so I think I was just like, hey, everything is great.

00:09:42
Speaker 1: You know, that was your general vibe when you were around, which was kind of amazing because it was not the vibe of the set right like we were. We ran like intense.

00:09:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was an intense production. You guys are I used to call it privately Michael Patrick King Batman because that dude was Auditi. You're running two crews. He was on both sets. He was leading the writing.

00:10:10
Speaker 1: And directing sometimes and editing, doing post production, casting, all of it, all of it. He's super intense and impressive. I agree. But also Cindy and Jenny, everybody, everybody so good. John John absolutely John is the like the magician behind the curtain.

00:10:26
Speaker 2: Basically made sure all the fires got put out or where they needed to be.

00:10:30
Speaker 1: Absolutely all of the things anything that anyone needed Johnny.

00:10:34
Speaker 2: Things do not get done by there was a camera.

00:10:39
Speaker 1: So when you so you've been to Costa, Rica and then you were in New York or you were here.

00:10:43
Speaker 2: I was living in New York. So that was if you remember, that was an incredibly heavy blizzard period.

00:10:50
Speaker 1: I forgot about the blizzard.

00:10:51
Speaker 2: It was so like we had had such an uber, uber hard winner and one night I was out at dinner with a friend and I was like, I've had enough, I'm done, I'm going. And so we got.

00:11:04
Speaker 1: Back from second modeling acting.

00:11:07
Speaker 2: I was acting, got it? Got it.

00:11:08
Speaker 1: So you'd been modeling in the past.

00:11:11
Speaker 2: I had modeled in the past. I walked away from that because I tripped into my first acting gig and again, like you know, sometimes you don't give yourself permission to do stuff, and I got offered a part because of you know, notoriety, and I was like, oh, this is the storytelling I've always wanted to do. Why wouldn't I pursue this? And I tried to do both things. But you have to be available to be an actor, definitely, and I was never available.

00:11:40
Speaker 1: So I got it.

00:11:41
Speaker 2: I walked away from a lucrative career. I was young enough and idealistic enough to do it.

00:11:46
Speaker 1: Totally. Let me ask you this question, just because I'm always curious. When you were modeling and you were jet setting, you were doing all the things, the shows and the all the cool things. Were you happy or were you like this is just for right now?

00:12:01
Speaker 2: Honestly, it was such a wonderful opportunity. It it transformed as I did it. You know, at first, I had a much smaller worldview because I hadn't seen the world. And you know, when I first got to Paris, I had no real intention. I was just a young punk kid FROMO I was twenty one. I turned twenty one, like right before I got there.

00:12:24
Speaker 1: A baby.

00:12:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it was you know, it was a different world then too, like we didn't have this monoculture we have now. Like I was in a different country. There was no phoning home, and it was there was a point of awareness because I had a three month ticket. I had saved up some money and this agency, like you know, they had in front of me the ticket and I didn't I really didn't take it serious. But as I was coming to the end of that ticket, and this was back in the day of paper tickets, there was no rebooking, it was like, you know, I realized that if I returned to what I knew, I would do what I had done mm hmm, that I had an opportunity to invent myself in a way. I had no clue as to what the outcome could be, but the seilings were higher, Yeah, And so I ripped up the ticket, forced myself to stay and luckily one of my first hobbies was photography at a dark room and amazing. So I just started creating my own book and started taking it seriously and got a little lucky.

00:13:29
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, you were also extremely gorgeous.

00:13:34
Speaker 2: Than that was also a good thing. I didn't really have that sense of self. You never had that, I agree. I mean I was more focused on doing it as business, and I think.

00:13:44
Speaker 1: That served me definitely.

00:13:45
Speaker 2: Once I saw it as an opportunity, I treated like business most definitely.

00:13:49
Speaker 1: Super smart, super smart. So you're there, you tear up the ticket, it goes well.

00:13:54
Speaker 2: No, no, okay, what I starved for a while?

00:13:58
Speaker 1: What I used to uh in Paris? Yes, oh my gosh, I well, statueations are done on this, yeah, tell us anything.

00:14:08
Speaker 2: I would case of bakery and still a big get, and then I would run.

00:14:15
Speaker 1: I think, no one's going to go and get you.

00:14:18
Speaker 2: And then I would go to like an outdoor cafe and take a pot I opened it up before I got there, and take a pot of their mustard and dump it on, and then I'd have mustard bad a lot of my mind.

00:14:31
Speaker 1: It's so crazy, slept on floors. Wow, that's fascinating. And then what what changed there?

00:14:39
Speaker 2: I got a booking, Like I said, I managed to put together a pretty good book. I still had the agency that I was working with at the time, and uh, got a booking and started making money.

00:14:48
Speaker 1: And then so it took kind of that one first booking and then it moved along since then. Interesting and you're still super young and you're just rolling.

00:14:57
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I think my first like decent money started coming in about a year and a half later. Wow, so there was like a six month starvation period. Wow, like I could buy this one cucumber. Gosh, geez what And yeah, it was easy to stay skinny, though, I'll tell you what.

00:15:20
Speaker 1: That's amazing. It's so interesting to me because like you know, you look at you. I mean, I wasn't thinking objectively about all this at the time, right, Like you just showed up and everybody was so excited, you know, and there was I'm just gonna say this now because it's really on my mind from watching the shows again. And I do have some memories. Like the thing that I remember the most, I remember the stress about your partner. I remember everyone discussing, like, who are we going to get? It's got to be this and it's got to be that. And like they had built it up, you know, so much so that you were going to be you were going to be vulnerable, but you're going to be beautiful, and you were going to be so hot you know whatever that means, right, which is so subjective, right, But it had to be someone where all the women in your restaurant that you, your character was a waiter in, would be trying to go home with you, right, And then Samantha would also think you were like the prize, right set, and obviously she can have and do whatever she wants theoretically, right, So, but you also had to be vulnerable, and you also had to match her energy and like have like some power in the you know, presence with her, and she had very strong, strong energy. So it was so many things. And I remember a lot of stress of them talking and I remember that and then be so excited that they found you. Everyone be like, oh, they found him, you know whatever. And then you show up and you were just so calm and likable and sweet, you know, and like I was just like, oh my god, I want to take care of him. But then I couldn't really take care of you because I was over here doing the right thing, and you know what I mean. But remember when we had that scene and I can't remember, are you doing a play and we come to see the play and they're naked?

00:16:55
Speaker 2: Jesus? I was.

00:16:58
Speaker 1: I know, I was dying for you. I mean, was that the first thing you filmed or is that just my first memory?

00:17:05
Speaker 2: It's probably just first. It's a standout. It was a lot man, I mean, fearful of people.

00:17:12
Speaker 1: I mean a big theater and you're completely naked and then they make you bow, and I was like, you, guys, give this poor guy a Oh. They were fine. Believe me, they've seen a lot by then, they've seen a lot. But I just was like stressed for you because I felt like, first of all, you've been built up to this thing right second, and you were doing so great, Like your way that you were with everyone was so relaxed and put everybody at ease, which was so nice, especially if someone so gorgeous you don't expect it. And for men who are so gorgeous, I feel like the objectification element must be odd.

00:17:53
Speaker 2: I think it's equal for men and women in different ways. There's a a term for it. It's called the Cinderella effect psychological term, and this idea that people see you other than what you are, and the Cinderella effects is the negative aspect of it, you know, you know, the mean stepsisters hating Cinderella for being Cinderella. Yes, yeah, I mean I'd had some practice with it before then, and like I said, I never really had that as my worldview for me. I was lucky enough to have spent a lot of time in books and reading and having other opinions. But you know, in that time, I think there was also a gift in it, because the best thing that we can do is develop our empathy for others, to try and understand what other people go through. And we live in a different conversation now. You girls are from a different time than what these girls had to put up with to be a strong woman at that time, to hold your power like your your bitch and you know, sorry you.

00:19:11
Speaker 1: Can say okay.

00:19:14
Speaker 2: So you either had to be like this strong arm bitch or you had to be super accommodating. And boy were the judgment And not that it's you know, completely gone, but the equanimity is more present than it used to be, and so I got, you know, in some ways to experience and see what you ladies went through. A matter of fact, I mean that's I remember when the show first got announced, long before I ever had anything to do with it, I was like, I wonder if this will work because the world is the world going to let for young women be leading ladies. That's not television. You could do it on The Golden Girls, but but you were that was a different class show.

00:20:02
Speaker 1: You know, it was totally totally different, so exciting, so excited to be a part of. But there was a lot of negative in the beginning, and then you know, it slowly eroded. And I think a lot of that had to do with the writing right, and it being so relatable and people you know, finding themselves in it and women embracing it obviously, but like eventually the men the It was really I think driven by the male critics who were like older white guys at the time, right, different times for sure, but I also think that over time, you know, it served a purpose and the writing filled so much Like when I because you were coming and I was like, well, I could watch this first episode because obviously that's when you show up. But it's just a tiny, tiny taste of what was coming, and I just fell down the rabbit hole and I just couldn't stop watching, right, So I stayed up too late last night watching because it's really really fun to watch, Like, I totally can see what we created in a much more objective way now in terms.

00:20:57
Speaker 2: Of absolutely Plus you don't have the pressure of doing your character. The characters were human. Yeah, I mean, I think Sex and the City, you know, unlike some of the spin off things. Of course, the sensational fun stories are meant to entertain, but a good story entertains with allegory, and we have space through the change and the challenges that the characters go through to assess their own experience, you know, And that's why it has everything in that show had that. So yeah, you'd have the moments where, like, you know, somebody like something super sensational, like breaking up with somebody over a post it note.

00:21:49
Speaker 1: Also like your crazy sex scenes you had with SMITHA. I don't know, I was what I.

00:21:55
Speaker 2: Was like, Oh, I really did get thrown into it right away.

00:21:58
Speaker 1: I mean, what did you think, Like, what were your thoughts at the time?

00:22:03
Speaker 2: Hold on for sure, Look, I think part of it. Of course, it was overwhelming. I'd done enough at the point to have a different, you know, sense of self than the kid who had first gone to Europe. But you could see, like you could see it in the writing, you know. I you know, I hadn't seen much of the show beforehand, and when I got hired, I had a huge binge watch and watched from start to finish, and so I could see clearly the level of commitment of the writers and the actors that this show meant something. Yeah, and so you know, there's more safety to do something like that, because it wasn't just the bullshit. Yeah you know, oh yeah, here, let's get naked. You know, there was a real and looking back on that character, the art, there was a real story purpose to this character.

00:23:04
Speaker 1: Major?

00:23:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, major.

00:23:06
Speaker 1: Did you know that when they hired you? What did they say?

00:23:09
Speaker 2: No? I just knew that, Like there was this amazing opportunity for a wildly successful show and oh yeah, sure I'll show off. Of course it was a great audition.

00:23:17
Speaker 1: Did Michael talk to you about the plan a little?

00:23:21
Speaker 2: You know? He was kind of Michael did, But I had to do the the naked placinge uh in the audition?

00:23:36
Speaker 1: Yes, but wait, you didn't have to take your clothes. No, he wasn't. That would be really bad. Okay, Okay, he was a sad heart. Of course he was a sweetheart. But you you had to do that in the in the.

00:23:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so at first, and this is you know where I'm glad, I, you know, did the research and knew enough about the show before or I did the audition. So I did my take on the play and it was a little too comical, tongue in cheek. I think he gave me a direction, and I remember saying to him, I was like, oh, so you want this more like a Pitner play. Yeah, And he's like, it.

00:24:17
Speaker 1: Was super s exactly, oh wow, And.

00:24:19
Speaker 2: I went, oh, so, even with the comedy of this moment, you are putting the depth underneath it, and you always want it there definitely. So I think, you know, knowing that you're more willing to do the weird, vulnerable shit.

00:24:34
Speaker 1: That was being really yeah, because you knew that, you knew that the depth was more important and that they would be going to that place at some point.

00:24:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, you were just taking your clothes off for the sake of taking the clothes, right, which.

00:24:45
Speaker 1: Is I think a huge difference, huge difference That's the thing that people talk about too with sex scenes, like is it serving the plot? Is it somehow forwarding this story?

00:24:53
Speaker 2: Yeah? Because ultimately everything should be in service of the story. The actor is the director of the writer's Absolutely story comes first. When you know that's happening. As an actor, you're like, how lucky am I?

00:25:04
Speaker 1: Definitely?

00:25:05
Speaker 2: I get to tell a story that matters.

00:25:06
Speaker 1: So when you first came on the show, how many what was the contractual commitment in terms of number of episodes or what.

00:25:13
Speaker 2: I don't know if I remember that. I mean I think it was like six, That's what I thought.

00:25:20
Speaker 1: It wasn't It wasn't like, you.

00:25:21
Speaker 2: Know, it was like, we'll see if this works out, got it?

00:25:25
Speaker 1: And did they ever talk to you about the cancer or where it was going with Samantha's character?

00:25:29
Speaker 2: Not until we got close to it.

00:25:31
Speaker 1: Wow. So you were just along for the ride, yeah, and just trusting Michael and I remember you talking like you were around, like you weren't like some guys when they come on our show were like, well this is their show. I'm just visiting. I'm just going to come and go. I remember you would hang out, you'd be at Valley Village, video village, you know what I mean.

00:25:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I also felt very super invited. I mean I remember my very first day, which was that restaurant scene. Yeah, a moose boosh.

00:26:02
Speaker 1: That was hard to say for some reason. I remember that. I remember like some because we were all like, what is this? Like, we didn't really know vegan terms, right.

00:26:12
Speaker 2: I was nervous as hell because you know, like, sure is first day on set. You guys were a established production. Everybody knows each other. It's like going to a new school and everybody knows everyone and you're the new guy. And then ironically, lunch was at a school cafeteria across the street, and I remember when I went into line, and there's rules for lunch, and it's not an elitist thing, it's a production thing. People above the line get first DIBs on the food because then they have to get back in hair and makeup while everybody's setting stuff up. So it's you know, get these people fed and then get them turned around. And so I had walked in to the line and.

00:27:03
Speaker 1: I got pulled out by a PA because.

00:27:05
Speaker 2: He didn't know who I was. And at first I was like, what did I Oh, he doesn't realize it, and so I got back in line and I grabbed my lunch and i looked out over the sea of people and I'm like, I'm all alone, no, no, And I wasn't because Sarah came right up to me. You guys were sitting together and just took me and sat me down. And immediately you were there, and Cynthia was there, and I think Kim wasn't. I don't remember, but I remember Sarah grabbing me from the lunchline and seeing the lost puppy. You brought me in right away. You were very like warm and engendering good.

00:27:46
Speaker 1: I think by then we really realized, for especially guys who had an ARC right, which we knew you at that point, that you were not just like a couple right, that you were an ARC. I think we realized that it's hard, it's hard to come in. We've obviously been established for a while. By that point, we were successful. And in the beginning, we'd had like these kind of one off guys, right, you know, like I would have a date a week basically in the beginning, But then we started having the longer storylines and we knew that this was going to be a longer storyline and that it helped everybody for us to include and also like we don't want anyone feeling sad, No.

00:28:22
Speaker 2: You know, wonderful.

00:28:23
Speaker 1: So glad.

00:28:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, I may have been showing up, but it was easy to show up to like people made space.

00:28:29
Speaker 1: I'm glad. I'm so glad. I just remember you being I just remember the hoopla before you got there, and then I remember you coming in all this going like whoa, Like good lord did they find the guy? Oh my god? And then you're just being the sweetest, sweetest, like so nice to everyone, Like all the writers loved you. Everybody always was like, oh, maybe Jason won't come to X, Y or Z. Like you know what I'm saying, Like you were you were like the new kid, but we were super excited. You know that's right. I remember, And I felt like you had such a hard job in terms of like you had to walk this line of being this hunk you know, who she really wants. But then also you're an actor, but then that can be such a cliche, right, which is kind of in the writing, which I loved.

00:29:11
Speaker 2: Well. Again, like I think that speaks to how good the writing was because they played into the tropes instead of like avoiding them. But like your character, I think, you know, and you did an amazing job with thank you, because it would have been so easy for you to let that character be naive and annoying, and instead, you know, there was sincerity and hope. Like all the characters served a purpose. They weren't just these character types. You know, you had that heart and it can work out and let's you know where you know, maybe you know, Carrie was the analyst and Miranda was the critic, and you know, certainly Samantha was the world.

00:30:02
Speaker 1: Totally, totally totally, and I think that's why, like, and this is what I love, like to me when we watch Samantha with you, it's the culmination of all of these years of seasons that she's been I'm doing what i want. I'm doing what i want, I'm untouchable, I'm going to take what i want. Like such a kind of traditionally male power character. Yeah, absolutely, and so incredibly powerful as a result. Right, Like, you just don't see this character, you know what I'm saying.

00:30:32
Speaker 2: But that's also the thing about all the characters, Like there was something for all the characters to learn. Yeah, right, because if there is no change. If there is nothing to learn, it's not.

00:30:43
Speaker 1: Interesting, absolutely, And that's what was so great for that character, because you are like all the things at once, right, Like you're a hot hunk whatever, right, Like she would theoretically want like her impulse of like I want that, I want that, and you're so much more and you see her struggling against it, like the episode where you guys are role playing you know, different things. That's so good and it has such a great conversation because I've forgotten all this, right, I'm like, what is going on? I'm sorry, my shoes are stuck together. I'm like, what is going on with this?

00:31:16
Speaker 2: You know?

00:31:16
Speaker 1: Because you're she has like a not rape fantasy, but like close right, and you know you're just playing along. It's so so likable. And then she comes and she tells us the whole This is the scene where Burger is going to tell us that he's just not that into you. It's such an amazing scene because it starts with her reliving this rape fantasy she had with you, and I'm like, Samantha, you know, rape in any form, no.

00:31:38
Speaker 2: No, no.

00:31:39
Speaker 1: And it shows each character's perception of that, right, And then you she's she leaves because you call her and she's like gotta go, you know. And then Miranda's telling us the whole, you know, blow by blow of her date the night before and how this guy she really likes but he couldn't come up and he's going to call her, and Burger's like sitting there and I've forgotten. I knew that that part was coming at some point, but you know, you forget how seamlessly they would write it in.

00:32:07
Speaker 2: It's in that again mark of a good writing they you know, I actually was, you know, when you asked me to do this. I started reflecting a little and watching a couple of episodes and just it's been resurfacing it. Yeah, that's I think, like when you have really good character development like they had, it seems as if they've planned it from the very very go, because there's truth connective tissue all the way through. Yeah, and so I guarantee you they had no idea there was going to be a Smith character when they started, but they understood the character that they made of Samantha. Yeah, just like you know you ending up with Harry Harry Adan's character, like well you were the you know, life's got to be in the perfect package. And so your lesson as a character was to learn that some times things go different than you expected.

00:33:04
Speaker 1: Yes, and she has that lesson over and over and over, which is so great.

00:33:08
Speaker 2: I doubt they knew that they were going to write now character, but they understood the characters so well, and so the writings came from them naturally.

00:33:15
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, the character. I think that comes and I'm sure that you're facing this with your own writing. It takes such confidence to trust that it does it.

00:33:27
Speaker 2: It's also a gift when you start doing because it kind of leads you to the answer. You know, it's almost letting it come in instead of pushing.

00:33:37
Speaker 1: It out nice. You know that's amazing, Like you're like, the character really do this?

00:33:43
Speaker 2: No, this is dishonest. And one of the things I've worked the most on is that understanding the motivations of why, and then you get these wonderful plot points or new characters.

00:34:05
Speaker 1: Let's go back to the writing for a second. So you're in Costa Rica. What does a day look like?

00:34:13
Speaker 2: Kind of boring? But you just wake up and you write, I get up like around four why because I god like eight thirty? I like to see down to see don I live on like a ten mile long beach.

00:34:28
Speaker 1: What the video that you made on Instagram your beach? Yeah, oh, Jason.

00:34:34
Speaker 2: So I'll either walk it, or I'll run it, or I'll surf it. I surf with the tide. So sometimes it's in the morning, sometimes it's midday. Then I you know, I have my little routines. I get going, extra little exercise, wake myself up, coffee, and I put about. It depends on the day and other demands. But I write almost every day and I put good five hours in most days.

00:34:59
Speaker 1: Amazing. Did you have to develop that discipline or did it you go, Okay, that's kind of hard.

00:35:05
Speaker 2: I think it is. It is, And it's also like anything, you get a sort of kinetic momentum. Going through the last draft. There are things that I've had to figure out, you know, when you decide that you're going to write across thousands of years, and there's still a lot that I have to figure out. But I've figured out lineages, and I know the ending of six, I know the ending of five, I know the ending of four to one, two and three. I have all those paint and these different characters now there's going to be a lot to discover along the way. But I look back at some of those earlier notes, I had no idea. Now you've got this concrete development of a thousand million choices that you've made and cobbled together into a substance. And so that led to that sort of kinetic feeling like it's so easy. Like at first it was a forced discipline, and now it's I really want to get to the chair, and most other things are in the way.

00:36:07
Speaker 1: Wow. When you so you said you were looking at the fourth draft, do you share it with someone or get advice?

00:36:16
Speaker 2: I did on the third is the third draft that I did it the second Sorry okay, no, it was the second draft. So on the second draft of it, I gave it to a development editor. Wonderful girl. Oh got it, got it, got she really knows. She used to work for HarperCollins fantasy and stuff. And it was great, And it was really encouraging because I've spent an enormous amount of time alone because you know, it's like, it's really hard to bother people with this, honestly telling people the So what's Tolkien about elves? There's some elves in it? I don't have else. It was really encouraging because her notes weren't very far off from what I already understood, and I've in between all the drafts. What I do is I re outline and I redeveloped the you know, the core structure as it's refined. Matter of fact, I just did a whole two week thing on because I really reached a point in the draft where there's this prophecy thing. I have my own magic system in history, and so I wanted to make sure it was really clear before. Because this is the draft that I will put out people and start getting like finished polish notes, I'd like to try and publish it on one more draft.

00:37:55
Speaker 1: Let's get back to you. So you're in Costa Rica. You're you're getting up your exercise at four in the morning.

00:38:01
Speaker 2: So I usually I'll get up, you know, I have my coffee or some tea. I do a little like warm up exercise. I like to start the day learning a little. Then I go for my walk. Then when I've gotten the ants out of my pants, I'll usually have a writing session in the morning and then go have breakfast, and then I'll have another writing session. If I don't have a other demand, I'll do like a yoga eater or something.

00:38:31
Speaker 1: Just to step away nice, nice, poor, a nap amazing.

00:38:38
Speaker 2: And so basically my days are sort of rinse and repeat. I eat, I sleep, I write.

00:38:43
Speaker 1: Do you miss being here at all? Yes?

00:38:47
Speaker 2: And no. There are things here that I can access, and you know, I travel a good amount, like you know, go to New York. I was just there, and when I do, like I just went to a comedy show night with a buddy, which was great. It was really good to good good. Yeah. Yeah, so there's that kind of stuff, but there is sort of a fundamental flaw that I do enjoy, Like there's a simple way I live in a small town and yeah, maybe the ambitions are smaller, but nobody's invisible.

00:39:22
Speaker 1: That's nice.

00:39:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really lovely, Like we're kind of forgetting community, especially with the way social media and news and everything has been broadcast at people for all these years, about creating this sense of us and them and each other and you know, the cohesiveness, like you know, one time we were talking about your skunking issue. Earlier, when I got skunked, I was on a I was on a four month camping trip and I camped across the US with my dogs, and you know what I saw, and same thing I see everywhere I've traveled in the world. There's more that binds us as people than separate Persinitely, when we just are stuck in these anonymous, big system structures, we sometimes forget that.

00:40:07
Speaker 1: Of course, I think that's really really important, really important to remember. It's great. So you're more, you feel more part of a community, you're less.

00:40:16
Speaker 2: And I'm a bit of a hermit. I mean, like I said, I eat, I sleep, I surve I right, like, I spend a lot of time alone, sort of a quiet life.

00:40:26
Speaker 1: So when it suits you, you're saying it suits.

00:40:30
Speaker 2: It suits the path I'm on, right.

00:40:32
Speaker 1: Right, right, So it might not be forever.

00:40:35
Speaker 2: No dream of dreams. I write this book in the next book in a different country.

00:40:39
Speaker 1: Oh wow, that's cool.

00:40:42
Speaker 2: I kind of want to, Like, I figured, it'll take me about those massagnoses.

00:40:48
Speaker 1: Mum, fluid you need to speak Spanish fluently.

00:40:52
Speaker 2: I need about two more years.

00:40:53
Speaker 1: Okay, I've missed the years the rest of way. Cool cool, two years to learn Spanish fluently or to finish the book.

00:41:00
Speaker 2: You know, to learn Spanish. But probably that's about like the time where I would be, you know, publishing and stuff with this book. Uh so, I don't know. I want to, but maybe I'll learn Portuguese next.

00:41:15
Speaker 1: Very cool.

00:41:16
Speaker 2: I've never been there.

00:41:19
Speaker 1: It looks amazing me too. So do you miss acting at all?

00:41:23
Speaker 2: I do. I do because of the storytelling aspect of it. I love storytelling. I love being a part of the story. And sets are so damn fun.

00:41:33
Speaker 1: They are fun. They they're interesting. Yea, very interesting.

00:41:36
Speaker 2: I've started putting more focus back towards returning.

00:41:39
Speaker 1: To that great Oh I thought it was I thought you were.

00:41:43
Speaker 2: No. I think it's something that I always want to embrace. But there's you know, as an actor, oftentimes you have very little participation in the creative direction of something. You're an interpreter. There's a joy I get from playing that puzzle all by myself.

00:42:05
Speaker 1: I get it. I mean, that's one of the things that I realize now in retrospect. We had even though we didn't have the titles in the beginning of the show, we were so included. And because you're creating this character with the writers over time, over time, over time, you do get to have so much more input. Like it's satisfying in a different way.

00:42:26
Speaker 2: Well, I think there was also a testament to the vision and confidence.

00:42:30
Speaker 1: Of yeah, the team, Michael and everybody.

00:42:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, like he knew what he knew, like a good leader, Yeah, listens to everything and then makes a decision. Yep, you know, a week leader refuses to let the ideas in.

00:42:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's true, that's true. No, he was always a porous Like I didn't realize this. I had him on maybe a couple of weeks ago, and yeah, yeah, he's it's so much fun how the writer's on. It's really exciting. I mean, it's also absolutely well, well, my whole point in doing this was too really too thing one is that I felt like everyone else was rewatching it and talking about it and putting their thoughts on it and whatnot, and I felt like, well, why aren't we part of that conversation, you know, like we made it right, Like, let's talk about it. And I also wanted to kind of make a tapestry of the different voices of the different people that were part of making the show right, because it takes so many people, as you know, like over all this time, you know, the writers, the producers, you know, I haven't had as many crew members on the Yeah, exactly. I would love to have more, but but it takes a lot lot a lot of people. And also I love to hear because it has turned into it it's it's held its place so well, you know, which we never really could have ever dreamt of.

00:43:40
Speaker 2: You know, it's amazing particular that kind of stuff. Definitely, Definitely, I do think it comes to what we keep bringing up, like the characters are as relatable now as that's why books last hundreds of years, you know, the time periods have changed, but the humanity hasn't.

00:43:57
Speaker 1: Absolutely and the questions like you know how Carrie always has question every every episode about your relationship. I'm always like, oh, that's such a good question. I have to ask that question about X, Y or Z right, like it really it's incredible. And again that's the writing, but it's also the execution of the writing.

00:44:12
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely.

00:44:12
Speaker 1: You know, as you mentioned earlier, you know, we were an intense it was an intense world, which I think has been you know, somewhat misinterpreted or whatever misconstrued I guess out there in the world. But I think that to me, part of the reason that the show is so good is because every single person took their job very seriously.

00:44:33
Speaker 2: Absolutely right, yeah, and did damn good jobs like powerhouse acting. Absolutely but a.

00:44:42
Speaker 1: Costume set deck, everybody was like very committed. Yes, you can say costume, right, tell us what do you remember?

00:44:51
Speaker 2: Oh god, she was like one of the most amazing people every Yeah that field.

00:44:59
Speaker 1: Sorry, yeah, it's okay, they know, but you know, I just got to say it.

00:45:03
Speaker 2: She like it was just a force of nature she was before she ever got in. It's like she was the known icon in New York.

00:45:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah before she like were you tapped in that kind of stuff before?

00:45:16
Speaker 2: Yeah? Because of the model, she knew who she was and you know, like for me in New York, especially at that time, like it's more hegemonized now. Ye. At that time, New York was this vibrant, be who you are location. Like I landed in my first like days in New York and I was like, you can be whoever you want to be here and it's okay. Definitely, Like I used to love that about New York because the different echelons of people that would intermingle.

00:45:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so she.

00:45:50
Speaker 2: Would be Yeah, I mean I've seen pat out like you know, things like CBGB's she was. Yeah, she was a wild child.

00:45:57
Speaker 1: She was a you were out there too.

00:46:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I was supposed to be. I was in my early twenties.

00:46:02
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I never think of you that way. I mean I was so like fuddy Duddy by that point because I was sober, so I wasn't necessarily always.

00:46:11
Speaker 2: Yeah right time I was. You know, I was like thirty something when I got hired on. Oh yeah I was.

00:46:17
Speaker 1: I was a dealer, so young, I mean, didn't we all let's discuss again, let's discuss. So you come, You're like, whoa, this is a lot, right, and you're thrown in And then what was it like when your first episode aired?

00:46:36
Speaker 2: It was interesting because you know, I was still young enough that I think I definitely got a little carried away with self. You did, Yeah, not like arrogant and weird, but like was going out and like, let's do all the things that I mean, Yeah, I was one of my best lessons. I over played my hand and burned the candle at both ends and came a little unprepared to say, oh yeah, let me knowes I.

00:47:07
Speaker 1: Was rought it And what did he say?

00:47:10
Speaker 2: He let me know? That I should never do that again. It was great. It was really good because it uh, you know, it was like, yeah, you're here to do a job. Yeah, you're not here to ground and play. Yeah, and so the ground and the play is great. But and so, you know, the first when it first came out, like I definitely I think it's got a little excited, well really so yeah, but then very much, you know, I realized what a wonderful opportunity and this is something I love doing, and you know, that was far more important than some party.

00:47:54
Speaker 1: So okay, so you're in New York it comes out, is the response positive? Like oh yeah, okay, got it.

00:48:00
Speaker 2: It was really also, you know, I mean, look at me. I looked like sort of an atypical male figure from the high school bully or whatever. I mean, I had a certain reaction to how to say this, Lesbians liked me a lot more after Sex and the City came out.

00:48:21
Speaker 1: Lesbians specifically, Okay, well I never had a problem with the gay community, but I looked like that guy. Oh you mean, people like projected onto you got.

00:48:31
Speaker 2: Rejected an idea of who I was supposed to be all of a sudden, you know.

00:48:36
Speaker 1: Like it looked like the bully. Is that what you're trying to tell me.

00:48:39
Speaker 2: The bully or the guy who put himself like in the cool pocket.

00:48:43
Speaker 1: Yes, you did look very cool, very.

00:48:45
Speaker 2: Cool, and that wasn't my you know how I heard myself And I remember there was a tangible shift because I was still going out and you know there's the art scene in the music scene in New York at that time was so vibrant, and I was like, oh wow, like I'm one known now, right, there's nothing anonymous about me in New York because this is New York show, right. But also it shifted that perception that.

00:49:11
Speaker 1: I was that guy cool.

00:49:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's good. I was super positive.

00:49:15
Speaker 1: That's really really nice. I like that. I mean because I feel like what I really loved and hadn't really remembered about your very very first episode, the way that you are within what they wrote, right, like they wrote it's cool how they kind of you're like a woman, like a desirable woman. Yes, in a way, right, definitely, Like all those girls are there and they all want to go home with you, and it's like a showdown between Samantha and this other girl and they'reing their tops and whatever. It's kind of crazy. I'd forgotten all of that.

00:49:48
Speaker 2: And then they're doing that swing dick energy.

00:49:52
Speaker 1: Big time, big time, big time, but with some like you had a twinkle in your eye from the get go right like that you were in on the game, or that you you were gonna kind of undercut it, or that you know, like there was something counter counter to what you know, like underneath it from immediately, which I hadn't remembered and was impressive, and then you I can't remember the first one because then, like I said, I fell down the hole and I had to watch a lot. But you you go home and you say you oh, and you go like you know, you didn't have to come back and do all this. I was ready to go home. We did, like they were just very cut, cut the nonsense to the fun and then like to watch how it went after that, like you do this crazy thing with the role playing in the crazy sex acrobatics insanity that I had also fully forgotten about. And then you try to kept you start trying to get to the real thing with her, like you tell her your name and then you're like, you don't know my name because she's calling you mister, mister Hansom or something. What's she calling you, mister something like mister sexy And you're like, yeah, you don't know my name, do you? Like you're just cutting away from nonsense with her, but in such a likable way. Yeah.

00:51:03
Speaker 2: Again, when you hand a good writing, it's easy to act. I mean not easy, no, no, but you have but you don't have to invent it. You find it's I mean, they never played hard on it, but that's what his whole sober thing is. So the way I saw the characters, or see the characters in retrospective is here is this woman who, in some respects I'm going to borrow a term from Brene is foreboding joy like, rather than allow herself to fill anything for people, I'm just going to have the fun. I'm going to keep it detached and that. But there's a certain lack of full experience for doing that. Yeah. And then you have this guy who comes in who can be completely comfortable and accepting it. And I think that that was, you know, like with the alcoholism, what it was somebody who had found comfort and self But like any good, really good writing, I think that's also you know, what she offered him is like ambition. You're great. It's good to be comfortable, right and accepting, but it's also okay to want more. And on her side of it, it's like, you know, it's okay to let the world touch you.

00:52:23
Speaker 1: Oh interesting, So I don't think what good writing? Oh my god, he was really god really good, I know. But also like you got the really good stuff, you know what I mean, like some of the other guys didn't get the really good stuff.

00:52:39
Speaker 2: Have no offense, no, I mean every character in the story is absolutely yes.

00:52:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's nothing against the actor, no, no, no, no, it's so joy if you grab it. Yes, And did you know at the time, like, what were your thoughts at the time, did you just think, like, wow, I'm so lucky and thankful that I happened to be.

00:52:59
Speaker 2: In this super well, I think, you know, that's one thing. I've always been fortunate. I've had a very developed sense of gratitude, and so yeah, I knew from the go that it was a gift, even if it was for you know, you asked earlier. If it had just been the short run, it would have been a gift. I had no idea that it would continue and expand like that.

00:53:21
Speaker 1: Okay, can we just talk for a second too, because you're in both movies. That's so funny somehow not remember that though. When I think about Morocco, I remember you there.

00:53:31
Speaker 2: I remember being in Morocco because I got sick.

00:53:34
Speaker 1: And I got sick. Did you know that I got sick? I got we got the crazy thing, you guys, it's well documented. I don't need to go into detail. What can I also tell you? I believe that we got it from the sand. And I talked to Dwayne Johnson about this because Dwyne Johnson, when he played The Mummy, got it and told crazy stories that I totally related to about getting the thing that you can get in Morocco, which is like montaz was revenge.

00:54:00
Speaker 2: Oh it's worse, It's insane. Yeah, it knocked me antibiotics.

00:54:05
Speaker 1: And I remember you me too. I remember you in the car when we had to go from I.

00:54:10
Speaker 2: Guess drive was I got lucky because we went out to the golden dunes like on the border.

00:54:17
Speaker 1: Of Algeria, the edge of the Sahara.

00:54:19
Speaker 2: Flown on a plane and then had to drive forever.

00:54:23
Speaker 1: Right, and we were in the same car. You remember you were in the front.

00:54:26
Speaker 2: I was starting to melt down, and I got really lucky because I didn't have to shoot the first couple of days.

00:54:32
Speaker 1: And you disappeared.

00:54:32
Speaker 2: You didn't know where you were.

00:54:33
Speaker 1: I couldn't move right, we didn't know where you were.

00:54:35
Speaker 2: You were, I could move, but I had understand.

00:54:40
Speaker 1: I totally understand this crazy thing happened with you guys. It didn't happen to everybody, but it happened no Jason. How so wait we flew. We were in Marrakesh before we drew drove right, Like, where do you think you got? Do you have any plant idea in your mind? Like? How did you get it? Were you in the sand at all before we drove.

00:54:58
Speaker 2: I'm an adventurous eaters, so I thought, oh, maybe I got it because I'm not because I went to the markets and I spoke, Yeah, I spoke to the souk. Yeah, well I went to the I didn't go to the tourist one.

00:55:12
Speaker 1: You didn't go to the tourist one. Okay.

00:55:15
Speaker 2: At the time, like I said, I had pretty good French, and so I went to the concierge and I asked, like, you know, where should I go? And I could hear in the discussion, so I went out to the taxi line and I heard them talking, and I basically because I didn't let them in on the fact that I understood them right, but basically, since I already had a destination in mind, I wasn't going to go to the place where they'd get their kick back.

00:55:40
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's a whole thing.

00:55:41
Speaker 2: So I got tossed to the low man on the totem pole and when I got in his car, I was like, hey, look man, I understood everything you guys were just talking about. So I'll tell you what how much you want for a day rate? And he's like and at the time they exchanged it was something like one hundred dollars, and I was like, I'll give you that for the next four hours if you stop and me. I don't want to go where you take all the tourists and you go. I want to go where your family shops. Wow, I want to go where you have lunch.

00:56:20
Speaker 1: Big time, big time. I mean, okay, So then we drive off to the Timbuctoo area right where we filmed.

00:56:27
Speaker 2: This is incredible.

00:56:28
Speaker 1: It was incredible. Do you remember that place we stayed. It was like an old fortress, so it was really.

00:56:34
Speaker 2: Neat so beautiful gold dunes really were why.

00:56:39
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know.

00:56:40
Speaker 2: I never sleep that well anyway, stays the most incredible stars I've ever.

00:56:45
Speaker 1: Seen, Right, I was up on the top of that building looking at the stars, like not sleeping at all. Had a full meltdown the next day in the in the scene which Michael and I discussed, I yelled at Michael one of the few times in my life that I've yelled at Michael. After this so I don't remember. I have to fall off the camel and everything. It was really hard, and I hadn't slept, and I was just like my mind. Yeah, I was losing my mind, and I think I was fighting the thing that I ended up getting, but I didn't know it yet, right, So I was like off and I got mad at him because he never said anything positive when I was falling off the camel. I had to fall off over and over and over. And he was walking talking because he couldn't walk across the sandus tacos, and he kept telling Cynthia, who was just sitting there on the camel right like we were sharing the camel, she didn't have to do anything. And he kept telling her what a great job she was doing. And I was like, is he ever gonna tell me that I ever ever, never did? And yes I did, he said, stomped down the thing. And I yelled at him and he said, I don't know what he said. He said something that I thought was lame. And then I yelled somewhere and then I started crying, which I always do or if I get that mad. And then I cried all my makeup off, and then it was a drama because I made everybody wait really bad. It was like the only time I know. I mean, also, we're like in the dunes, right, so it's a day, you know what I'm saying, It's a day, not a day for me to cry my makeup on.

00:58:09
Speaker 2: It happens.

00:58:09
Speaker 1: It was definitely a human say was he I don't know what the heck he said? I think she's like, what is wrong with you?

00:58:16
Speaker 2: Was he doing? Like? No? Not at the time. Yeah, did he have an answer for.

00:58:21
Speaker 1: He never had an answer. I'm sure he was doing something. He always had a way.

00:58:25
Speaker 2: You were supposed to be in distress, so maybe maybe Skillet.

00:58:31
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, I have never gotten to the bottom of it. You know what I mean like I brought it, brought it up. He brought it up actually, and he was like, you know, and you come stopping down, big man, big man. I was like, I was big man. I really was big man.

00:58:49
Speaker 2: Big man.

00:58:49
Speaker 1: You know, it was it was how I was feeling, which is rare, very very rare, and very rare that I would as stressful.

00:58:58
Speaker 2: I mean for me it was easy pie because I had so little responsibility on that. But you know that was I think a stressful thing for him though, too, and for you because you know the first one, less of the burden was upon him. That one. It was all on it, all on him.

00:59:18
Speaker 1: He wrote it, he directed it. It was a big budget, the first one, too big deal. No one thought we were going to succeed.

00:59:25
Speaker 2: And like you said, practically speaking, that was an exhausting journey because it was like two days of travel, different time zone, hard conditions. I people think that acting is such.

00:59:40
Speaker 1: A glorious I know, I know, but in some ways it really was so incredibly It's.

00:59:47
Speaker 2: An incredible adventure. Yeah, but it can be.

00:59:49
Speaker 1: Like you don't expect, you know what I mean, you don't expect, like because you have to when you're acting. You know, between action and cut you have to be a hundred and ten percent one hundred and fifty percent. So if your body isn't with you one hundred percent, it's really really hard. It's really really hard, and I don't think any of us were. You know, it was hard to be one hundred percent, but it was also like incredible.

01:00:15
Speaker 2: You mean, in the middle of a desert in the seat.

01:00:21
Speaker 1: It's hard. I exhausted, totally, totally, but it was like, I'm just so thank you.

01:00:28
Speaker 2: How many times had you written a camel before?

01:00:31
Speaker 1: I had never written a camel, but I had traveled a lot, you know what I mean. I was into the travel part with the camel, but we had a really sweet camel. But I had to fall off the camel and no one spoke English. So I was falling off onto this mattress, but no one holding the mattress spoke English. They spoke Arabic and French. So remember how they would have to give all the directions in all the different languages. It was a lot. What did you do in the first film, because I can't the films are like in a different mind compartment.

01:01:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was easy because that was in Malibu.

01:01:12
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, of course you were in Malibu. Of course, that's great. What did you think of the films? Were you like this is incredible or were you like, oh, I'm tired of doing this.

01:01:23
Speaker 2: No, not at all. I mean, you know, look again, like I said, I'm fortunate that I've always had a sense of gratitude, and I think life is richer with one. Yes, certainly your joy follows gratitude. I didn't make that up, absolutely, and so I've always just been very very appreciative that I was included at all, because you didn't have to be right. Yeah, again, I truly believe the men were spokes to the hub. Like that show was not about the relateationships ultimately, it was about the at least the romantic relationships. It was about the friendships and the growth of the four girls, I think, and so yeah, of course, but the but they were, like the outside relationships were the crucible through which the development of the individual friendships and the women's their characters. Yeah yeah, yeah, And so it's not that I'm not saying they were superfluous or useless in any way. Yeah, but they were the catalyzers for the chemistry.

01:02:30
Speaker 1: Definitely, definitely, And I think you know, I think it's at the end of the show where Carrie's voiceover says something about how you know, everything is just really about your relationship with yourself and learning to love yourself. Absolutely, that would have been all like our friendship, but also all these other.

01:02:47
Speaker 2: Relationships, and certainly that was her character's challenge, like the inability to make that healthy samee choice, you know, like let's keep going for mister big exciting, going to burn your hand on the stove guy.

01:03:00
Speaker 1: Oh, I know, it's so funny to rewatch mister big Wow. Have a lot of strong feelings, but I'm somewhat feeling better now because he's now moved to NAPA. When you cut you know this group that I watched last night, he's in Napa and they have this weird phone sex situation, right, did you do you remember this? Because she's dating Burger but they so he calls her and he's all like, mister smooth, you know how he is, and do you remember when we did this? And do you remember when we did that? And she's just like, I don't know what to do, she says to the girls, and then she calls back and she says, hey, you know we need to just be friends and not do that because I'm seeing someone know, and it just got serious, and she's very mature in that moment, I'm like, oh, thank god, Carrie, thank god. And then he you can see that he's hurt, like he he's developed. Also, we don't get to see his development, right, we just see how all.

01:03:54
Speaker 2: The characters written with a sense of that it's true.

01:03:58
Speaker 1: And I also think, like when I look at the writing and then I look at what Chris was doing, he was bringing depth to it. Also. I mean I'm sure Michael Patrick wanted that right or wouldn't be there, you know, but like he's bringing it and you're like, oh, thank god, mister Big is like a little bit better now, yes, you know, because we have a future that we need to, you know whatever, invest in you know, with them. But it's it's it's interesting because it was a different time, as you've said a few different different times, and like in terms of being a man back then, right, a man who's out and about, you're traveling the world, you're in New York. Do you remember how different dating was?

01:04:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, our generation grew up with some of the just stupidest stereotypical ideas of how we are supposed to behave. You know, boys don't cry there. You know, these white knights shanning armor and they go in to save women. Like what an insult to women? I agree, But then you'd find a lot of that. I always struggled with dating because you know, I never really was a player because of these weird stereotypes. Abstainly, look, I'm certainly not going to pretend that Jason Young, Jason, I.

01:05:19
Speaker 1: Remember this funny, funny moment where I saw you at a party. Do you remember this. I don't know, it's funny, it's good. I saw you at a party, probably like an Oscar party type of a thing, one of those big ones, right, and I was so happy to see it wasn't I don't think it was that long. I think the show was over. I don't think it was a long time. Maybe the movies were happening, I don't know. And we were just chatting high, you know whatever. I hadn't seen you in a bit, and we were like walking somewhere and you were like, oh no, And I said what you were like.

01:05:49
Speaker 2: Just keep walking with me, And I was like okay.

01:05:51
Speaker 1: You were like to the right to the right, and I was like, what what's going on? You were like avoiding fording xes, avoiding excess to the left. I was like, we're just in a minefield of exus. Now, I'm just gonna be with Jason. I'm just going to be here for Jason. So, I mean, there.

01:06:07
Speaker 2: Seem to be aist history.

01:06:11
Speaker 1: Maybe possibly just a little And I was like, whoa, he's busy. And there were some lovely ladies I might add, yes, oh yes, I'm sure you know who I'm talking about.

01:06:21
Speaker 2: We're not going to bring that.

01:06:23
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say any names, of course, I don't do that on this podcast. But I was like, wow, I'm behind on what's going on, but I want to protect Jason. Thank you. I'm there for you, you know, Yeah, yeah, yeah, appreciate it.

01:06:38
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, look, I think that if anything, that's one of the things I really like seeing what's happening with the younger generations now, is there's more resources. Again, you look at the writing of Sex and the City. These things were being brought up in the public conversation for the first time. Yeah, you know, people didn't talk is freely and openly about emotions or relationship dynamics or have the research. Yes, sex, yeah, I mean what do we have. We had doctor Ruth.

01:07:08
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yeah, I mean bless her heart. Yeah, but she's yeah, so adorableable.

01:07:21
Speaker 2: But you know, it was like there wasn't a lot of comfort for growth and conversation. And you know, again something that that show gave gave a lot of conversation at a lot of conversations. And also I think for men, you know, that's one of the things that I've definitely been surprised over the years. And it's funny because oftentimes it'll be couch with my girlfriend made me watch it, or my wife made me watch it. Yes, but a lot of men resonated with that's nice.

01:07:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it. Thank you, Jason. Than being with us, that was fun, fun, fun,