Sept. 21, 2026
The Date That Went Very, Very Wrong with Wallace Langham... (S6 E1 "To Market, To Market")
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RSS Feed Season 6 is officially here! Wallace Langham joins Kristin Davis to revisit his unforgettable Sex and the City date with Carrie, complete with real pigeons, a dozen attempts, and a very creative solution involving his hair.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
00:00:01
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? Hi, hi everyone. Welcome back to Are You a Charlotte? Today we have a lovely, lovely guest. His name is Wallace Langham, and you're going to remember him because he goes on a date with Gary and a pigeon lands on his head. And we're going to hear all about what he had to do to film that. And the episode is called To Market, To Market, and the air date was June 22nd, 2003. Please enjoy. It's fun, fun talking to him about all actor-ly stuff. I remember you originally, myself, because I guest starred on Larry Sanders.
00:00:40
Speaker 2: Okay, tell me what you did. I don't think we worked together.
00:00:42
Speaker 1: No, we did not. I was on a date with Gary. It was a double date with Hank and another girl who I don't remember.
00:00:49
Speaker 2: Did you go to the Look Around Cafe? Hank's Cafe, do you remember?
00:00:52
Speaker 1: It was something, yeah, I think it was. But it was pretend, right?
00:00:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:00:56
Speaker 1: It was on a soundstage.
00:00:57
Speaker 2: He had this revolving restaurant. Yes, it was that.
00:00:59
Speaker 1: It revolved.
00:01:00
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. Yes!
00:01:01
Speaker 1: It was so trippy. But I was a massive fan of the show. You know, of course, because I mean, it was so, so unbelievably brilliant.
00:01:08
Speaker 2: And HBO. And HBO.
00:01:11
Speaker 1: And it was like the only show that I really knew from HBO. Right. So because it was like you guys and Dream On.
00:01:17
Speaker 2: That's correct. Right. Yeah. We were like the first two. Yeah. And then you guys came along. Yeah.
00:01:22
Speaker 1: And Sopranos kind of at the same time.
00:01:24
Speaker 2: That's right.
00:01:24
Speaker 1: So what do you remember of like the early days of HBO? What was it like over there?
00:01:29
Speaker 2: Well, gosh, I mean, Sanders was its own kind of island.
00:01:34
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:01:35
Speaker 2: So, um, and I say that in the best way because it was Gary, it was Brillstein gray. It was the genius of, uh, like Peter Tolan and Paul Sims and John and, and, uh, Steve Levitan and all these, like everybody who went on to do amazing television. Right. So, um, I'm, I'm sure I'm leaving out hundreds of people.
00:01:57
Speaker 1: Um, Right, but Paul wrote my episode, and Paul, you know, works, I mean, everyone there. Like, everyone there literally just fanned out into the industry.
00:02:07
Speaker 2: No, it's like, it's like, Larry, Gary, Gary. I know, it's hard. I think Danny Carvey called him Galary, just to get it all into one. But Gary, like, basically Galary. had this kind of farm team where he just made great writers and they all came from comedy. And, uh, and so at any rate, um, so when I say that, it's like, we were kind of like our own little thing. Uh, we'd have a table read on Monday and which was like Christmas to me. Cause I'm like, Oh boy, what, what's going to happen. And then, um, You know, maybe someone from HBO was there, maybe one or two people. And then everybody would leave and the writers would rewrite. And then we'd just shoot it. And then within that, it's like you're encouraged improv and let's make this better. Got it. Gary was such a genius that he could gut and rework a scene in half an hour.
00:03:05
Speaker 1: Wow.
00:03:05
Speaker 2: So it was, you know, a remarkable experience for somebody like me, because I didn't, I loved comedy, but I didn't come from, wasn't a comic or anything like that. And to be encouraged to do that. So in answer to your question, the early days of HBO were, were very hands-off, I thought.
00:03:27
Speaker 1: Right, us too, us too, very hands-off.
00:03:29
Speaker 2: Just let you do your thing.
00:03:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it was unlike any other place.
00:03:34
Speaker 2: That I've been. Yeah, and I did a Showtime movie with Brian Benben. Oh, wow, yeah. And Diane Keaton. Ooh. And Jennifer Tilly and Laura San Giacomo.
00:03:44
Speaker 1: Wow.
00:03:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was great. And I'm like, why am I here? But Brian said he had the same kind of thing with Dream On.
00:03:53
Speaker 1: Right, oh, yeah, yeah.
00:03:54
Speaker 2: You know, we're doing what we do.
00:03:57
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:03:57
Speaker 2: And I think they were just happy to have it.
00:03:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely you felt that way. You did feel that way. And it's so interesting because, like, you never know over time what's going to kind of last and have, like, for me, Larry Sanders at the time, industry-wise, everyone was obsessed with it, right?
00:04:14
Speaker 2: Right, right.
00:04:15
Speaker 1: Whether people were watching or not, you didn't, it wasn't about that.
00:04:18
Speaker 2: No, it wasn't. But the funny thing was, and I don't know whether you experienced this or not, but it really had that kind of bracket of East Coast, West Coast.
00:04:25
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:04:25
Speaker 2: People who, you know, like the first time I went to New York was in 95 and I saw a production. Yeah, like my first Broadway show.
00:04:35
Speaker 1: Right.
00:04:36
Speaker 2: And I went backstage and Megan Mullally was in it and I went backstage and somebody recognized me from Sanders and I was like, no, I'm here to see her. No, I want to say hi to you.
00:04:48
Speaker 1: It was really weird. You know, that was unusual. That was different.
00:04:52
Speaker 2: It was unusual. I like that because I was just, you know, I always felt like I was doing things that were the one hit wonder, the guest star, what have you. And then it's like, um, that I'm on a series that is on cable.
00:05:05
Speaker 1: Right.
00:05:05
Speaker 2: That you had to pay for. You can either afford or steal. Right, right.
00:05:08
Speaker 1: Totally, totally. People forget that part of it all. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:05:12
Speaker 2: Like taking the coax and just kind of jacking it in the back of the TV. Right. And so it wasn't getting like the audience that you can get today with streaming and the internet and, you know.
00:05:25
Speaker 1: Is Larry Sanders on HBO Max? It must be. It is. And do people still talk to you about it? Like what's the.
00:05:32
Speaker 2: Well, here's... A crazy thing, which I didn't know because, well, a couple of crazy things, I'll tell you. We used to live in Studio City, and I was walking home one day, and this woman came out with her dog from the veterinarian and said, hi, my husband is obsessed with you. And this is right after my wife and I, she turned to me and goes, look at this thing. And it was a license plate holder about the Larry Sanders show. And I was like, okay, that's bizarre. That is bizarre. This is like five years ago, four or five years ago, something like that.
00:06:08
Speaker 1: Wow.
00:06:08
Speaker 2: And so we got put in touch with this guy. And he was just a super great guy. He was a TV writer and a fan. And so I had an old... Letterman's jacket and old Larry Sanders Letterman's jacket. And so I ended up giving it to him. Cause I'm like, it's sitting in moth balls collecting dust. And I thought this guy.
00:06:28
Speaker 1: Could, uh, you know, he might like it. So sweet.
00:06:30
Speaker 2: So that's the first interesting thing that people still, well, that he was an old fan. Now here's the really interesting thing that I didn't know about when I got to do, um, Harry Mason, I did a few of those in the second season. Again, HBO.
00:06:44
Speaker 1: So good.
00:06:44
Speaker 2: So great. And, um, The showrunner, who I'm blinking on at the moment, said his son in college said there is a huge Sanders resurgence among young people.
00:07:02
Speaker 1: Love it.
00:07:03
Speaker 2: And so there's like this thing he said, yeah, if you walked onto a college campus, you would be mauled because people are really into the show. So it still has legs.
00:07:12
Speaker 1: I love that so much.
00:07:13
Speaker 2: And that must be the same for you in Sex and the City, I would imagine.
00:07:16
Speaker 1: For sure, for sure. I mean, at one point, HBO decided to license us out, which was interesting because, you know, for a long time, In the original thing, you know, we were held because they wanted people to pay, you know, the price to subscribe, right?
00:07:30
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:07:31
Speaker 1: Then when we ended, they were like, oh, yeah, we're going to put you on the WB or whatever. So we were like, okay. So they cut about half of it out, right? Right. To put it on the networks. We were like, this is very, very strange, right?
00:07:43
Speaker 2: But did you feel kind of a groundswell of people watching at that point?
00:07:46
Speaker 1: I mean, the groundswell, I think, was so big at that point from... the original show, right? Because it was like a cultural thing. Didn't notice a change with the WB. Then somehow it gets on to E, where it lived for quite some time.
00:08:01
Speaker 2: Oh, for sure. That's a perfect.
00:08:03
Speaker 1: Audience for the show, yeah. But also a little weird for us, right? It's not really what we made it for, but whatever. And that went on for a while, but I also think largely edited, right? Yes, you had to. Right. Then Netflix comes along, the world changes, streaming, etc., HBO was like, well, let's make some money and let's license our stuff out, which has also been just not, whatever. Streaming has changed everything, of course, as you know. And so then we were on Netflix, which that was a huge shift in terms of who the audience was, right? So the younger ladies are now, you know, on board, which is fantastic. Totally. And because of social media, you can collect and discuss, you know, which is really nice.
00:08:43
Speaker 2: As people who want to do.
00:08:44
Speaker 1: Absolutely. And it's so nice to have. I mean, that's part of the reason I did the podcast was because kind of obvious that like it has legs in a way that you wouldn't have expected and that people are still discussing the actual substance of, you know. the show, like the central questions that Carrie asks, you know, they're still relevant.
00:09:04
Speaker 2: It's crazy. I agree. And the funny thing was when I watched, rewatched the episode was, um, uh, Kim Cattrall's, is it Amanda?
00:09:13
Speaker 1: Samantha.
00:09:14
Speaker 2: Oh my God. Uh-oh. Fired.
00:09:18
Speaker 1: No, it's okay.
00:09:19
Speaker 2: It's okay. Samantha. Yes. Is complaining about a pottery barn going into Hell's Kitchen where she lives.
00:09:27
Speaker 1: Oh, my God, yes.
00:09:28
Speaker 2: Which is funny, and you're like, okay, boy, that's terrible because it's old New York. But, you know, I was there recently, and it's even worse now. Oh, it's beyond. So it's like it's the same thing. Same kind of themes happening.
00:09:40
Speaker 1: Absolutely. And it's also, isn't this where we're in the meatpacking district and she's talking about the designers shouldn't be in the meatpacking district? I mean, have you been to the meatpacking district lately? It's bonkers. But it's also like I can see the positive and I can see the negative. Like when I first started rewatching, we filmed the pilot in 97.
00:10:00
Speaker 2: 97.
00:10:00
Speaker 1: And we're downtown and it's dark. You know what I'm saying? Like it's just dark, right? And like warehouse-y looking, you know what I mean?
00:10:08
Speaker 2: You're glad to be on a film crew because at least you're protected at two in the morning as opposed to trying to get home.
00:10:14
Speaker 1: Totally, but it's like so different than now that you have to think like, wait, where are we physically? Because it doesn't look the same, you know? Like it's very noticeably different. And as we all know, like I lived on the Upper West Side for the longest time and I kept my apartment for a long time. And every time I went back, I mean, things would be closed and things would be open and you'd just be like, I just can't keep up.
00:10:35
Speaker 2: Much like Los Angeles.
00:10:37
Speaker 1: That's true, too.
00:10:38
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:10:38
Speaker 1: That is true, too.
00:10:39
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:10:39
Speaker 1: That is true, too, now that I think about it. Yeah.
00:10:42
Speaker 2: I mean, I grew up here and it's like I've watched the city change.
00:10:46
Speaker 1: And the neighborhood fads. Oh, yeah. So take us back. We talked about Larry Sanders, which is really fun, but you've been on like 20 million things. So back in... I don't even know which things to ask you about. So back in 2002, which is probably when we filmed it.
00:11:02
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:11:03
Speaker 1: No, we could have filmed it.
00:11:04
Speaker 2: It could have been 03.
00:11:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, it could have been three because probably this is the season where we've started. This is 601. Oh yeah, it was definitely, it was like February.
00:11:13
Speaker 2: It was cold. Okay, got it. It was probably cold. It was funny because it was unseasonably not cold. And we were outside, so it wasn't terrible.
00:11:21
Speaker 1: Oh, good.
00:11:22
Speaker 2: I'm glad. I remember that.
00:11:22
Speaker 1: I'm glad.
00:11:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
00:11:23
Speaker 1: Because you were outside for a really specific reason. Dude. Your part is so funny and sad, and you do it so brilliantly. Like, tell us about, first of all, did you know about us? Did you want the part? Did you know? What was your deal?
00:11:38
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, yes, I was definitely a watcher. And so, yeah, I thought the show was great. I knew Sarah Jessica a little bit. Um, when I was 21, I, uh, I was the understudy in a play she was doing here in LA. Yeah. And I, a couple of years before I had done weird science with Robert. Oh my God. And so they were dating. And so I knew her, I'd met her. And so I got to, um, uh, understudy all the male parts, which were about three or four of them. And then, and then she was the lead female. Um, and thank God they didn't use me because I could not have covered four different guys.
00:12:20
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a lot.
00:12:21
Speaker 2: There's no way. No, I was just helping a director out that I worked with when I was a kid at any rate. So, uh, Sarah and I had that experience. And then so sweet, you know, to come on to set in 2003. And, you know, I walk in the trailer and she's there in makeup. They never send me the good ones. They never send me the good ones. Come on.
00:12:41
Speaker 1: And I was just like, oh, you're killing me.
00:12:46
Speaker 2: So great to see her. But it was funny because that audition, so I've been a fan. Yes, to answer your question. Secondly, that audition was the first time time I had ever done any kind of self tape. Oh, which is now ubiquitous. This is what we're doing. This is how the industry works.
00:13:06
Speaker 1: Wow.
00:13:07
Speaker 2: But I went to my manager's office and they put in a video cassette and I read with one of his assistants and got the job.
00:13:15
Speaker 1: That's insane. Yeah.
00:13:16
Speaker 2: It was insane.
00:13:17
Speaker 1: You did all this physical comedy on a, like in your manager's office. Yeah.
00:13:22
Speaker 2: I mean, it was like, I'm sitting in a chair, he's over there and I'm like flopping around like, like, like a bad Jerry Lewis. Um, and so got the job, which was great. And then went to New York, had never worked in New York, uh, before. And, um, Sarah was so sweet. I knew Pat Fields a little bit, uh, through mutual friends.
00:13:44
Speaker 1: Wow. Okay.
00:13:45
Speaker 2: Yep. And then, um, so it was fun to see her. And then Michael couldn't have been great to her. You know, he was fantastic.
00:13:53
Speaker 1: He directed this one too.
00:13:54
Speaker 2: He wrote it and directed it. And John, John was there too. Melfi was there too. And Sarah had brought James.
00:14:01
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:14:02
Speaker 2: That was her son? Yeah, the baby. Yeah, as a baby.
00:14:05
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:14:05
Speaker 2: Exactly.
00:14:05
Speaker 1: He's not anymore.
00:14:06
Speaker 2: No, I know.
00:14:07
Speaker 1: At that point, he was.
00:14:08
Speaker 2: I was telling my wife. Yeah, he's probably close to 30 now.
00:14:12
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm in denial. I'm in denial. We'd have to do the math, but probably. Yeah, that's really upsetting to think about.
00:14:18
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:14:18
Speaker 1: Very, very upsetting to think about.
00:14:20
Speaker 2: Well, let's not dwell on it.
00:14:22
Speaker 1: You're right. You're right.
00:14:23
Speaker 2: Let's, let's, let's, yes.
00:14:24
Speaker 1: We're back. He's a baby. He's adorable.
00:14:26
Speaker 2: We're babies.
00:14:27
Speaker 1: He's a baby. We're babies.
00:14:28
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I have more hair.
00:14:30
Speaker 1: It's great. Your hair looks great.
00:14:32
Speaker 2: Oh, thanks.
00:14:33
Speaker 1: You're welcome. So wait, you come and you knew, did you, what was the plan with the pigeon?
00:14:49
Speaker 2: Uh, okay. Do we remember? I don't know if there was a plan, but I'll tell you what happened.
00:14:56
Speaker 1: Tell me.
00:14:57
Speaker 2: Um, uh, the, uh, so I, I get to set, I think it was written into the script that that was all going to happen. Right. So, um, when I get there, um, you know, we're setting up outside and I don't know whether I had a stunt coordinator or they're just letting me do my bits, which I'm fine with. Cause I love, I love a good physical bit.
00:15:18
Speaker 1: Nice.
00:15:19
Speaker 2: Um, and I'm talking to a lady who is the pigeon wrangler.
00:15:24
Speaker 1: Wow. So we had real pigeons.
00:15:26
Speaker 2: Oh, there were real pigeons.
00:15:27
Speaker 1: Impressive.
00:15:28
Speaker 2: Okay. And a, um, quite a few, I think maybe up to five, six.
00:15:33
Speaker 1: Wow.
00:15:33
Speaker 2: Something like that.
00:15:34
Speaker 1: Okay. Okay.
00:15:35
Speaker 2: And so, um, she was in charge of making sure the gag worked. She placed the background pigeons. If you remember the episode, they pan off of this, these two very quiet pigeons going, you know, and then down to us. So they had the background pigeons and then, um, then they had the hero pigeon, which is supposed to land on my head. So, uh, now getting a pigeon to land on your head apparently is a lot harder than one would think. Um, I don't think they use treats or anything in my hair. No. Okay. But maybe they should have because the, the thing that ended up happening is that the Wrangler who's off screen is very gingerly tossing the pigeon. towards my head.
00:16:26
Speaker 1: That's scary.
00:16:26
Speaker 2: And, which is fine. Okay. You know, I'm like, okay, I'm committed. So, uh, you know, it would hit me in the ear or it would flop on my shoulder and fall off or it would hit my head and slide off.
00:16:40
Speaker 1: Oh my God.
00:16:41
Speaker 2: You know, I mean, it didn't know what to do. I'm sure it was happier just like, can I be a background pigeon and just sit and be chill for a while? Cause I'm, I'm hung over.
00:16:52
Speaker 1: The city is crazy.
00:16:53
Speaker 2: Um, But, no, what they ended up having to do was they took a bunch of bobby pins.
00:17:03
Speaker 1: Oh.
00:17:04
Speaker 2: And built a platform in my hair. Oh, my God. For the pigeon to kind of grab onto.
00:17:10
Speaker 1: Okay. Yeah.
00:17:13
Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah. Like a perch. It was a little platform. Oh, my God. Yeah, a little perch. Adorable. Yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah.
00:17:19
Speaker 1: And that worked? Yeah.
00:17:20
Speaker 2: It worked once because they got the shot.
00:17:23
Speaker 1: Got it, got it, got it, got it.
00:17:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:17:24
Speaker 1: And then did they get the thing out.
00:17:26
Speaker 2: Of your hair? No. Well, they left it in for the day until I was done, just in case they wanted to have more. So the initial one, the one that went well, was when there was the little toss, gently, gingerly. She was very lovely with the pigeons. And then the pigeon would land. And it like kind of stood there for a little bit. And I noticed. And then I kind of flip out and it goes away. So we got that once. It took about 10 to 12 tries maybe. Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. Yep. And then the second one, the second lob was sort of on my shoulder and flopped around and, you know. Uh, uh, but that was fine.
00:18:09
Speaker 1: Pigeon acting. Oh my gosh.
00:18:11
Speaker 2: Pigeon acting. Now the humans in the scene, we did about three or four takes. Very professional. You know, Sarah Jessica is a pro.
00:18:19
Speaker 1: Of course.
00:18:20
Speaker 2: Of course. Of course. I'm flopping around like a bad dog.
00:18:22
Speaker 1: I mean, you had a lot to do.
00:18:24
Speaker 2: Yes, I do. Wow. Yes.
00:18:26
Speaker 1: It was so good.
00:18:27
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you. And the funny thing was whenever I would watch sex in the city, I was like watching these guys who had guest star. And I was thinking, That would never happen.
00:18:37
Speaker 1: No, there's no way that would ever happen.
00:18:41
Speaker 2: You know, like, like they would be put in these ridiculous fun situations.
00:18:44
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:18:45
Speaker 2: And then here I am with a.
00:18:47
Speaker 1: A very extreme, really extreme situation. At least you weren't like funky spunk or something. Right.
00:18:54
Speaker 2: No, I would save that. Yeah, you really were.
00:18:56
Speaker 1: You really were.
00:18:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was sweet and kind of sad. Yeah.
00:19:00
Speaker 1: And I love the whole point of it, which is that at this point, she hasn't gone on her first date with Berger and she's building it up and she's buying outfits and stressing about it or whatever. And we're all like, you know, Samantha's like, don't worry about it. You know, everyone's got their point of view about it. And then she decides, she takes Samantha's, I guess, advice to go out with you as like a breaking the ice.
00:19:22
Speaker 2: I think you even corroborate. I think Charlotte even gets on board too.
00:19:25
Speaker 1: Which is interesting.
00:19:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I was like, yeah, you gotta do this.
00:19:28
Speaker 1: Right, she's spinning out so much that I'm like, yeah, yeah, take the pressure off.
00:19:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, shake the nerves out. Right. Get the yips out.
00:19:33
Speaker 1: Which I think is so great. And then like at the end, because it's such a mess and you're so nervous, you're so adorable. And then she's like, She has some line about like one person's first date is another person's bad date. You know what I'm saying? It's some sweet, like, you know, it puts things in perspective for her. And then at the end, she ends up calling burger, like kind of, um, she runs into him in the neighborhood of the movie theater and.
00:19:55
Speaker 2: She calls him on a pay phone.
00:19:56
Speaker 1: Exactly. With the quarters and everything.
00:19:58
Speaker 2: Uh, back in the day you could use a telephone.
00:20:01
Speaker 1: I know, I know.
00:20:03
Speaker 2: A public telephone and you put a dime and then later a quarter, uh, Yes. Into the slot, dial your number, and have a conversation on the phone.
00:20:11
Speaker 1: And she knew the number, which also cracked me up, right?
00:20:15
Speaker 2: And I guess he had a cell phone. Sure.
00:20:17
Speaker 1: Because we do have the cell phones already in the show, right? That is true, yeah. But it's that weird, awkward time where there's both.
00:20:23
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:20:23
Speaker 1: But she doesn't have hers because it takes Carrie a long time to get a cell phone for some reason.
00:20:28
Speaker 2: That's right. That's right, yeah. She was old school. And then she got that flip phone. The fact she had the memory to... She had the number, man. She got his number.
00:20:34
Speaker 1: I mean, I had so many thoughts when she went to that pay phone. Like, I remembered how they used to smell. I was a little concerned about germs.
00:20:41
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:20:41
Speaker 1: Like I had a very 2026 viewpoint. I was like, oh God, don't touch it. And then I was like, no, she has to make the call. Totally. But you know how there are some still, like you can find them, but they don't have the receiver.
00:20:53
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:20:54
Speaker 1: And they just stink like to high heaven.
00:20:57
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, they haven't been cleaned since 78.
00:20:59
Speaker 1: And why are they still there?
00:21:00
Speaker 2: You know, but my whole thing is just always checking the slot for a dime or a quarter.
00:21:05
Speaker 1: Smart.
00:21:06
Speaker 2: Always.
00:21:06
Speaker 1: Smart.
00:21:07
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:21:07
Speaker 1: Yeah. smart Wally smart I mean it is so funny to watch like the details change over time you know but I do I do love it like I miss those those things.
00:21:19
Speaker 2: I know it's so analog and we don't have that anymore.
00:21:22
Speaker 1: But maybe we'll go back maybe we'll just like be like you know what we don't want to be killed by AI maybe we should just chuck the whole idea.
00:21:32
Speaker 2: Well we can only hope I I love a simpler time I'm definitely someone who likes to be able to almost like a carpenter likes to be able to make that cut and look at that angle and see that work. And great. I did that. Look what I did, you know, as opposed to being theoretical and, and, and trying to, figure out something that I just don't have the math for because I'm not that bright.
00:21:59
Speaker 1: I agree with you. I mean, I also think in a weird way, that's, what's fun about acting. Right. And you know, like, because you go, you, it's a certain challenge of the day. Like you're talking about the pigeon, like you're seen, of course, with Sarah is the most important part, but that part's easy.
00:22:13
Speaker 2: Right.
00:22:14
Speaker 1: Cause you're a great actor. You know, you're, you're, you're.
00:22:16
Speaker 2: I have a great partner too. So it's easy.
00:22:18
Speaker 1: All the things are there. All the things that you need are there. Dialogue's great. And Michael's great, great director, blah, blah, blah. Yep. but yet you have to have a pigeon land on your head. So you're like, okay, you have to be a part of the team. How do we solve this problem? And then you guys get, everyone gets together on the set. That's what I love about it. Like it's very hands on in a weird way, though. It's also a kind of magical thing.
00:22:39
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I think that the luxury of it is that you, you know, you bring in the, the crew and the lights and the thing and the sound and everything. And you set up this place to, to exist. Yeah. And then, Yeah, then it's boots on the ground. How do we solve any problem that comes up?
00:22:58
Speaker 1: Right, right. Which is fun.
00:22:59
Speaker 2: It's great.
00:23:00
Speaker 1: It's really fun.
00:23:00
Speaker 2: It's great.
00:23:01
Speaker 1: And the other thing that I thought about when I was watching your scene, number one, it's just such a sweet scene. And number two, the crazy pigeon, which I wanted to hear about. Number three, just the physical comedy. Like, had you had a lot of opportunity before to do that?
00:23:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, I... Uh, let's see. Physical comedy, comedy per se. No, but.
00:23:22
Speaker 1: Cause it's kind of rare. I feel like.
00:23:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is actually to be able to be that physical with all of it. Um, but, uh, no physical comedy. It was more stunt work. I'd actually done a lot of, um, uh, like at that time I was, I'm sorry. When in my younger years, like 19 and in my twenties, um, doing, like, independent films and stuff where you had to do your own stunts.
00:23:46
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:23:47
Speaker 2: And I loved doing that. I loved, you know, taking a punch or falling down or whatever.
00:23:51
Speaker 1: That stuff's fun, but it's hard.
00:23:52
Speaker 2: It is. It is. Yeah, yeah, it is. But better than getting punched. Because I walked into a stuntman demonstrating a punch to someone.
00:24:01
Speaker 1: Oh, no, oh, no.
00:24:01
Speaker 2: And I'm like, I thought my jaw was broken. And he wasn't even going full bore. But, yeah. No, that was, I love physical comedy. I got to do, yeah. So that was like a playground for me because it was the chair. And Michael, we all talked about like, how do you want this? Do you want it big and this and that? And he was great. He was like, just, do it.
00:24:31
Speaker 1: It was great.
00:24:32
Speaker 2: Surprise me.
00:24:32
Speaker 1: It was so good.
00:24:33
Speaker 2: And so it, it evolved, it evolved from falling backwards. And then, and then it came, you know, then I came up and pushed the table over and it was like, so like all this stuff that kind of expanded as, you know, like you said, you have this kind of contained environment where you can, you know, just, uh, uh, make stuff up.
00:24:52
Speaker 1: Also, I think with physical comedy, if they do give you some room, um, Like you have the thing that you're trying to do, right? And the effect that you want it to have in the scene and the other character. But if you're not too locked in, then you can really just play and have fun.
00:25:06
Speaker 2: Oh, for sure.
00:25:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that so much.
00:25:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, me too.
00:25:08
Speaker 1: But it's hard and not everyone can do it. So I think it's just so great that you're so good at things that- Well, thank you. You wouldn't necessarily, because you also are like the straight man. Yes. So it's interesting that you can- Well, to.
00:25:18
Speaker 2: Try to keep, it was funny because the Simudate, it was- a very, it's, it seems like a departure of a date that wouldn't really happen in reality, but the fact that it is happening was so, um, just remarkable and so great for Carrie to go like, Oh, I don't have anything to worry about this guys. This is a disaster. I'm just going to go see a movie with burger. Great. Um, so, uh, no, it was, it was a blast.
00:26:03
Speaker 1: Tell me again. So you're here in LA, you self tape to get our job, which is also kind of crazy.
00:26:08
Speaker 2: Yep. Right.
00:26:09
Speaker 1: Like I don't even know how people do this nowadays because you're just by yourself.
00:26:12
Speaker 2: I can tell you how they do it. I'm doing it every week. You are? Oh yeah.
00:26:17
Speaker 1: No way. Oh yeah. At home. Yeah.
00:26:19
Speaker 2: At home.
00:26:19
Speaker 1: What, tell me your process.
00:26:21
Speaker 2: It's a, it's a, an iPhone and a ring light. And I have a plug in microphone that I can attach to my shirt and, And you catch me here to here and, you know.
00:26:33
Speaker 1: Do you learn your lines or do you hold the script?
00:26:35
Speaker 2: I learn my lines. Got it.
00:26:36
Speaker 1: Because I feel like that works better.
00:26:38
Speaker 2: I think so. It puts a lot of pressure or it did initially put a lot of pressure on me.
00:26:43
Speaker 1: Right.
00:26:44
Speaker 2: And my lovely wife is behind the camera doing. Uh, hair, makeup, uh, wardrobe, uh, directing and camera work. Um, yes. And, and, and also reading.
00:26:57
Speaker 1: Amazing.
00:26:59
Speaker 2: Um, so I'm lucky.
00:27:01
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:27:01
Speaker 2: Um, but before I would go into like a self tape place and work with somebody, you know, that's, that's fine. But, uh, I prefer this. I don't have to leave my house.
00:27:09
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:27:10
Speaker 2: Um, and sometimes I wear shorts. And you wouldn't even know it.
00:27:15
Speaker 1: Amazing. So let's say you self-tape, because I don't do this that much, right? I've done it like twice.
00:27:20
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what to do.
00:27:21
Speaker 1: Tell me what to do, but also this is what I'm curious about.
00:27:23
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:27:24
Speaker 1: Then afterwards, like let's say they're like, yeah, Wally's right for this part. Do you meet people? Or they just phone you up and say like, show up here.
00:27:32
Speaker 2: 99% of the jobs that I get is you've got the job and then you show up. Wow.
00:27:42
Speaker 1: That's crazy.
00:27:42
Speaker 2: But having said that, Um, there are, I've heard of, I haven't had, I haven't dealt with this, but sometimes you'll get a redirect. Like we loved the read, but could he or she do blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So then you take some direction. Then you do it again.
00:27:58
Speaker 1: Crazy.
00:27:59
Speaker 2: I know. Oh my God.
00:28:00
Speaker 1: Like in the olden days, it was all in the room in person and they direct you and you show that you could take direction.
00:28:05
Speaker 2: Oh, I know. And I, I went on my first, uh, in-person audition, uh, earlier this year and just, it was just a hoot. It was just so much fun.
00:28:13
Speaker 1: I know.
00:28:14
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I like walked in and I was like, I'm oddly not nervous.
00:28:18
Speaker 1: Because it takes the onus off in person. Whereas back in the olden days, it was scary to be in person because also sometimes there'd be like so many people there and the vibe would be weird. Right.
00:28:29
Speaker 2: It was the worst.
00:28:30
Speaker 1: Right. It was the worst.
00:28:31
Speaker 2: I remember when I was reading for Larry Sanders and I was in, I was in a room. Gary and his producer were across the hall. Oh. And there was other actors in the room with me waiting.
00:28:46
Speaker 1: Okay, okay.
00:28:47
Speaker 2: And so we were waiting to go into that room.
00:28:49
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, okay.
00:28:50
Speaker 2: Across the hall.
00:28:50
Speaker 1: Got it.
00:28:51
Speaker 2: Right? And, you know, we're waiting, and I'm sitting there with my sides, and Gary pokes his head in as he's walking to the hallway. He goes, yeah, I don't think I want to be in this room. And then he keeps walking. Okay.
00:29:06
Speaker 1: He's so silly.
00:29:07
Speaker 2: He's so funny. But yeah, just the nerves. It was crazy.
00:29:12
Speaker 1: Right, but now you just want human beings in front of you.
00:29:16
Speaker 2: I know. I thought I didn't.
00:29:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting.
00:29:18
Speaker 2: For the first couple of years, because this all happened during 2020, COVID. For the first few years, I'm like, are you kidding me? This is a jackpot. I don't have to drive an hour to Santa Monica to sit in traffic, to sit for another half an hour driving to do my thing for 10 minutes and then drive two hours home.
00:29:36
Speaker 1: Good point.
00:29:37
Speaker 2: That's great. Right. You know, and I thought it was going to be a lot easier. It was fun, but the novelty wore off very quickly.
00:29:43
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
00:29:45
Speaker 2: And so, um, I'm, I'm, I'm glad that casting is open to having a in-person and you know, this, the, the, the, the lesser version of that is having the live zooms.
00:29:59
Speaker 1: Well, that's where I was going to get to next. Cause when we were doing the casting for, and just like that, it was like 2021, I want to say, and it was so fascinating. So especially for the younger people who are playing our kids, right. Who, I mean, probably didn't know about real regular casting, right? Because they were young during COVID, right? And their self-tapes were incredible. I can only imagine how hard they worked on it at home with their parents, sure to be. They were like so good. And then we had to do this group Zoom with like so many people. We were trying to talk because like our producers and casting and them and it was not conducive. I was like, you can't. judge anyone's personality or whatever from.
00:30:44
Speaker 2: That it's tough right yeah i would think it would be tough because when you get in the room you know you see the human being and uh you know listen i've had auditions in the room where i think that i have just completely ruined it And I walk out, and actually it went well, and I just couldn't tell. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. So it's like you never know. You never know what they're looking for, what quality it is that they want that you just happen to have.
00:31:13
Speaker 1: Definitely.
00:31:14
Speaker 2: And so, yeah, I do miss going back in the room.
00:31:18
Speaker 1: Me too. I mean, I also just like to talk to people. It's nice to talk to people.
00:31:23
Speaker 2: I agree.
00:31:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's hard on Zoom to really talk to people.
00:31:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. It does feel a little bit like, uh, uh, the, you know, the, the hamburger mill where it's like, right. Put in the grinder. Let's go. Okay. Next.
00:31:36
Speaker 1: Yep.
00:31:36
Speaker 2: Um, so yeah, I, I agree with you, you know, and I try to bring that to, uh, any of the zoom sessions or what have you, because it's like, Hey, I'm, we're talking and like, how's it going? I'm great. How are you? You know? Yeah. And so, Interestingly enough, I've gotten feedback from certain auditions where it's like, he was so nice to me. I didn't expect that from an actor. It's like, they're so nice.
00:32:00
Speaker 1: I think because usually they're just scared.
00:32:02
Speaker 2: Yeah. Do you know what I mean?
00:32:03
Speaker 1: You're like, I don't know even who's, who's all in the waiting room of this room or whatever. It's so weird.
00:32:08
Speaker 2: Well, the cast, it was just on the casting end. The casting end were like, wow, he was so nice to, like, they don't, they don't expect it anymore. They're like, okay, we got to do this. And like, yeah. So it's like, yeah.
00:32:19
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:32:19
Speaker 2: It's a whole different.
00:32:20
Speaker 1: It's a whole different. I mean, you've been acting for so long. You must've just seen so many changes. Like, what do you think of the current situation?
00:32:27
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. It's, um.
00:32:30
Speaker 1: It's crazy, right?
00:32:30
Speaker 2: Wow, it is. Yeah, I mean, when you put it like that, I'm very old. No, that's not what I meant. No, it's, yes, it has changed drastically and dramatically. And the interesting thing that I can say about it is that the creativity, getting to the creativity can happen much faster than it used to. Interesting. As far as people getting things made, people getting them on air and things like that. It's almost instantaneous now, which is fascinating to me because this was always my complaint first. um, you know, back when I started and we were shooting on.
00:33:14
Speaker 1: Film, it's like, you know, first it's very different.
00:33:17
Speaker 2: You go in, you have, you meet the casting director, then you come back and meet the casting director again. Then you meet the producer and then you meet the studio people. And then you go to the network and then you wait and you wait and you wait. And then maybe you get it. And then if you get it, then you have to shoot it. And then it's not going to be out for another six months. Yes. So it's, that's, you know, interesting to me because I, I guess, look, if I can make a stupid analogy and not sound so pretentious, it almost feels like you're doing sculpture. It's like if I took clay and I could mold it and put it into the thing, it's like I see what I've done. And with the technology now, it's so easy. We're shooting on a couple of phones and there's a couple of lights and it's bingo. It's right there. You can stop, rewind it, look at it and go, Yeah, I didn't like that. Maybe I'll change this and I could do that. So that to me is a little more fascinating. That's a good point.
00:34:17
Speaker 1: I hadn't thought about it that way. It's true. And I also think I've been meeting people lately out in the world because I left the house. And sometimes I get to meet people here who are young and started by putting videos on Instagram and now have shows. It's so important.
00:34:34
Speaker 2: That's the part that I feel like such a dinosaur about because that's not my path.
00:34:38
Speaker 1: No, you know, and it's not, we didn't have that opportunity.
00:34:41
Speaker 2: No.
00:34:42
Speaker 1: And it's so impressive to me that they can do that. Like the self generated element is amazing.
00:34:49
Speaker 2: Anybody can do it. And that's, what's interesting is that, um, the, uh, the, the, that everybody I've seen this to my wife the other day is like, everyone's a cameraman. Everyone's talking to themselves or they're talking about their food or they're, you know, they're just documenting their life. And so there's an ease to it that I certainly had to, and I'm not great at it still. It's like, you know, I'll get on set and be like, hi, everybody. I'm nervous, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they've grown up in front of, you know, just being out there. It's so true.
00:35:29
Speaker 1: And for us dinosaurs, it's a whole adjustment thing. And it's so interesting. Like sometimes Cynthia and I went out to these Emmy parties because she didn't bring her wife trip. And so she was like, come out with me. I was like, okay. So the first night we go out, we have a great time. We see so many people. It's a big thing. And we take no pictures, right? Because we forget. Yeah.
00:35:48
Speaker 2: Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah.
00:35:49
Speaker 1: We just don't think about it. We were enjoying other people, you know?
00:35:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
00:35:53
Speaker 1: And then she texts me like, did you take any pictures?
00:35:55
Speaker 2: I was like, shit.
00:35:56
Speaker 1: Did you take any pictures?
00:35:58
Speaker 2: She's like, I didn't.
00:35:59
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh my God, I have to ask my manager. Did he take any pictures?
00:36:02
Speaker 2: No. Cause he's our age.
00:36:03
Speaker 1: Right.
00:36:03
Speaker 2: Right.
00:36:04
Speaker 1: So then the next night we were like, we're going to do better. We're going to do better. We completely forgot. We took no pictures. We were having so much fun. You know what?
00:36:12
Speaker 2: I celebrate that. And I'm glad you didn't.
00:36:14
Speaker 1: Thank you. I agree.
00:36:15
Speaker 2: It's really interesting. When the goal is to take pictures, um, I think it takes me out of the moment.
00:36:22
Speaker 1: It takes you out of the moment, absolutely.
00:36:23
Speaker 2: I'm not going to talk about anybody else, but it takes me out of the moment. Even to such a degree, like even when my wife and I are out, it's like, can I get a picture? No, we're just having a nice time. You're right. We're having a nice time.
00:36:35
Speaker 1: Right, right, right. New pictures for me.
00:36:36
Speaker 2: I'm not, I don't post. I'm not on any social media. I don't do any of that. But it's, it's. It's more from my memory, but I'm like, no, I have the memory. I have the experience.
00:36:45
Speaker 1: It's so true. It's so true. The good news for us was that there were professional photographers at both of these events.
00:36:51
Speaker 2: Congratulations.
00:36:52
Speaker 1: So there are pictures.
00:36:53
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:36:53
Speaker 1: We just had to find them.
00:36:55
Speaker 2: By the way, there will always be pictures.
00:36:57
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, sometimes not, though.
00:36:58
Speaker 2: Somebody will take it. Oh, come on.
00:37:00
Speaker 1: No, honestly. You can't step out.
00:37:02
Speaker 2: Of your door and go to an event and not expect somebody to have a picture of you. I mean, that's a good point. Or even a video.
00:37:08
Speaker 1: That's a good point. But like, I guess because- I guess because we didn't have them to do with as we chose. You know what I'm trying to say? Because both she and I are on social media. We have young ladies who help us. I call them the digital girlies.
00:37:23
Speaker 2: Great.
00:37:23
Speaker 1: We have the digital girlies. And they were kind of sad that we had not done better.
00:37:27
Speaker 2: And that's an obligation that you want to have. Right. Yeah, I totally get it.
00:37:32
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:37:33
Speaker 2: And so, but the thing that you really put your finger on is the fact that you're from an age where You just are enjoying your friend. Absolutely. And it's not about that. No, it's not.
00:37:46
Speaker 1: It's not. It's not presentational or whatever or performative, I guess, would be the worst case scenario.
00:37:53
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:37:53
Speaker 1: But also it's interesting because like it's so powerful also to connect online, right? So like digitally you can make connections online. In good ways.
00:38:03
Speaker 2: Instantaneously.
00:38:04
Speaker 1: Instantaneously, like we were talking about. So there's positives and negatives. It's so interesting. Anyway, you guys, this is so much fun that we are going to have to have a part two. So join us later in the week on RUS Charlotte.
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? Hi, hi everyone. Welcome back to Are You a Charlotte? Today we have a lovely, lovely guest. His name is Wallace Langham, and you're going to remember him because he goes on a date with Gary and a pigeon lands on his head. And we're going to hear all about what he had to do to film that. And the episode is called To Market, To Market, and the air date was June 22nd, 2003. Please enjoy. It's fun, fun talking to him about all actor-ly stuff. I remember you originally, myself, because I guest starred on Larry Sanders.
00:00:40
Speaker 2: Okay, tell me what you did. I don't think we worked together.
00:00:42
Speaker 1: No, we did not. I was on a date with Gary. It was a double date with Hank and another girl who I don't remember.
00:00:49
Speaker 2: Did you go to the Look Around Cafe? Hank's Cafe, do you remember?
00:00:52
Speaker 1: It was something, yeah, I think it was. But it was pretend, right?
00:00:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:00:56
Speaker 1: It was on a soundstage.
00:00:57
Speaker 2: He had this revolving restaurant. Yes, it was that.
00:00:59
Speaker 1: It revolved.
00:01:00
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. Yes!
00:01:01
Speaker 1: It was so trippy. But I was a massive fan of the show. You know, of course, because I mean, it was so, so unbelievably brilliant.
00:01:08
Speaker 2: And HBO. And HBO.
00:01:11
Speaker 1: And it was like the only show that I really knew from HBO. Right. So because it was like you guys and Dream On.
00:01:17
Speaker 2: That's correct. Right. Yeah. We were like the first two. Yeah. And then you guys came along. Yeah.
00:01:22
Speaker 1: And Sopranos kind of at the same time.
00:01:24
Speaker 2: That's right.
00:01:24
Speaker 1: So what do you remember of like the early days of HBO? What was it like over there?
00:01:29
Speaker 2: Well, gosh, I mean, Sanders was its own kind of island.
00:01:34
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:01:35
Speaker 2: So, um, and I say that in the best way because it was Gary, it was Brillstein gray. It was the genius of, uh, like Peter Tolan and Paul Sims and John and, and, uh, Steve Levitan and all these, like everybody who went on to do amazing television. Right. So, um, I'm, I'm sure I'm leaving out hundreds of people.
00:01:57
Speaker 1: Um, Right, but Paul wrote my episode, and Paul, you know, works, I mean, everyone there. Like, everyone there literally just fanned out into the industry.
00:02:07
Speaker 2: No, it's like, it's like, Larry, Gary, Gary. I know, it's hard. I think Danny Carvey called him Galary, just to get it all into one. But Gary, like, basically Galary. had this kind of farm team where he just made great writers and they all came from comedy. And, uh, and so at any rate, um, so when I say that, it's like, we were kind of like our own little thing. Uh, we'd have a table read on Monday and which was like Christmas to me. Cause I'm like, Oh boy, what, what's going to happen. And then, um, You know, maybe someone from HBO was there, maybe one or two people. And then everybody would leave and the writers would rewrite. And then we'd just shoot it. And then within that, it's like you're encouraged improv and let's make this better. Got it. Gary was such a genius that he could gut and rework a scene in half an hour.
00:03:05
Speaker 1: Wow.
00:03:05
Speaker 2: So it was, you know, a remarkable experience for somebody like me, because I didn't, I loved comedy, but I didn't come from, wasn't a comic or anything like that. And to be encouraged to do that. So in answer to your question, the early days of HBO were, were very hands-off, I thought.
00:03:27
Speaker 1: Right, us too, us too, very hands-off.
00:03:29
Speaker 2: Just let you do your thing.
00:03:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it was unlike any other place.
00:03:34
Speaker 2: That I've been. Yeah, and I did a Showtime movie with Brian Benben. Oh, wow, yeah. And Diane Keaton. Ooh. And Jennifer Tilly and Laura San Giacomo.
00:03:44
Speaker 1: Wow.
00:03:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was great. And I'm like, why am I here? But Brian said he had the same kind of thing with Dream On.
00:03:53
Speaker 1: Right, oh, yeah, yeah.
00:03:54
Speaker 2: You know, we're doing what we do.
00:03:57
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:03:57
Speaker 2: And I think they were just happy to have it.
00:03:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely you felt that way. You did feel that way. And it's so interesting because, like, you never know over time what's going to kind of last and have, like, for me, Larry Sanders at the time, industry-wise, everyone was obsessed with it, right?
00:04:14
Speaker 2: Right, right.
00:04:15
Speaker 1: Whether people were watching or not, you didn't, it wasn't about that.
00:04:18
Speaker 2: No, it wasn't. But the funny thing was, and I don't know whether you experienced this or not, but it really had that kind of bracket of East Coast, West Coast.
00:04:25
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:04:25
Speaker 2: People who, you know, like the first time I went to New York was in 95 and I saw a production. Yeah, like my first Broadway show.
00:04:35
Speaker 1: Right.
00:04:36
Speaker 2: And I went backstage and Megan Mullally was in it and I went backstage and somebody recognized me from Sanders and I was like, no, I'm here to see her. No, I want to say hi to you.
00:04:48
Speaker 1: It was really weird. You know, that was unusual. That was different.
00:04:52
Speaker 2: It was unusual. I like that because I was just, you know, I always felt like I was doing things that were the one hit wonder, the guest star, what have you. And then it's like, um, that I'm on a series that is on cable.
00:05:05
Speaker 1: Right.
00:05:05
Speaker 2: That you had to pay for. You can either afford or steal. Right, right.
00:05:08
Speaker 1: Totally, totally. People forget that part of it all. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:05:12
Speaker 2: Like taking the coax and just kind of jacking it in the back of the TV. Right. And so it wasn't getting like the audience that you can get today with streaming and the internet and, you know.
00:05:25
Speaker 1: Is Larry Sanders on HBO Max? It must be. It is. And do people still talk to you about it? Like what's the.
00:05:32
Speaker 2: Well, here's... A crazy thing, which I didn't know because, well, a couple of crazy things, I'll tell you. We used to live in Studio City, and I was walking home one day, and this woman came out with her dog from the veterinarian and said, hi, my husband is obsessed with you. And this is right after my wife and I, she turned to me and goes, look at this thing. And it was a license plate holder about the Larry Sanders show. And I was like, okay, that's bizarre. That is bizarre. This is like five years ago, four or five years ago, something like that.
00:06:08
Speaker 1: Wow.
00:06:08
Speaker 2: And so we got put in touch with this guy. And he was just a super great guy. He was a TV writer and a fan. And so I had an old... Letterman's jacket and old Larry Sanders Letterman's jacket. And so I ended up giving it to him. Cause I'm like, it's sitting in moth balls collecting dust. And I thought this guy.
00:06:28
Speaker 1: Could, uh, you know, he might like it. So sweet.
00:06:30
Speaker 2: So that's the first interesting thing that people still, well, that he was an old fan. Now here's the really interesting thing that I didn't know about when I got to do, um, Harry Mason, I did a few of those in the second season. Again, HBO.
00:06:44
Speaker 1: So good.
00:06:44
Speaker 2: So great. And, um, The showrunner, who I'm blinking on at the moment, said his son in college said there is a huge Sanders resurgence among young people.
00:07:02
Speaker 1: Love it.
00:07:03
Speaker 2: And so there's like this thing he said, yeah, if you walked onto a college campus, you would be mauled because people are really into the show. So it still has legs.
00:07:12
Speaker 1: I love that so much.
00:07:13
Speaker 2: And that must be the same for you in Sex and the City, I would imagine.
00:07:16
Speaker 1: For sure, for sure. I mean, at one point, HBO decided to license us out, which was interesting because, you know, for a long time, In the original thing, you know, we were held because they wanted people to pay, you know, the price to subscribe, right?
00:07:30
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:07:31
Speaker 1: Then when we ended, they were like, oh, yeah, we're going to put you on the WB or whatever. So we were like, okay. So they cut about half of it out, right? Right. To put it on the networks. We were like, this is very, very strange, right?
00:07:43
Speaker 2: But did you feel kind of a groundswell of people watching at that point?
00:07:46
Speaker 1: I mean, the groundswell, I think, was so big at that point from... the original show, right? Because it was like a cultural thing. Didn't notice a change with the WB. Then somehow it gets on to E, where it lived for quite some time.
00:08:01
Speaker 2: Oh, for sure. That's a perfect.
00:08:03
Speaker 1: Audience for the show, yeah. But also a little weird for us, right? It's not really what we made it for, but whatever. And that went on for a while, but I also think largely edited, right? Yes, you had to. Right. Then Netflix comes along, the world changes, streaming, etc., HBO was like, well, let's make some money and let's license our stuff out, which has also been just not, whatever. Streaming has changed everything, of course, as you know. And so then we were on Netflix, which that was a huge shift in terms of who the audience was, right? So the younger ladies are now, you know, on board, which is fantastic. Totally. And because of social media, you can collect and discuss, you know, which is really nice.
00:08:43
Speaker 2: As people who want to do.
00:08:44
Speaker 1: Absolutely. And it's so nice to have. I mean, that's part of the reason I did the podcast was because kind of obvious that like it has legs in a way that you wouldn't have expected and that people are still discussing the actual substance of, you know. the show, like the central questions that Carrie asks, you know, they're still relevant.
00:09:04
Speaker 2: It's crazy. I agree. And the funny thing was when I watched, rewatched the episode was, um, uh, Kim Cattrall's, is it Amanda?
00:09:13
Speaker 1: Samantha.
00:09:14
Speaker 2: Oh my God. Uh-oh. Fired.
00:09:18
Speaker 1: No, it's okay.
00:09:19
Speaker 2: It's okay. Samantha. Yes. Is complaining about a pottery barn going into Hell's Kitchen where she lives.
00:09:27
Speaker 1: Oh, my God, yes.
00:09:28
Speaker 2: Which is funny, and you're like, okay, boy, that's terrible because it's old New York. But, you know, I was there recently, and it's even worse now. Oh, it's beyond. So it's like it's the same thing. Same kind of themes happening.
00:09:40
Speaker 1: Absolutely. And it's also, isn't this where we're in the meatpacking district and she's talking about the designers shouldn't be in the meatpacking district? I mean, have you been to the meatpacking district lately? It's bonkers. But it's also like I can see the positive and I can see the negative. Like when I first started rewatching, we filmed the pilot in 97.
00:10:00
Speaker 2: 97.
00:10:00
Speaker 1: And we're downtown and it's dark. You know what I'm saying? Like it's just dark, right? And like warehouse-y looking, you know what I mean?
00:10:08
Speaker 2: You're glad to be on a film crew because at least you're protected at two in the morning as opposed to trying to get home.
00:10:14
Speaker 1: Totally, but it's like so different than now that you have to think like, wait, where are we physically? Because it doesn't look the same, you know? Like it's very noticeably different. And as we all know, like I lived on the Upper West Side for the longest time and I kept my apartment for a long time. And every time I went back, I mean, things would be closed and things would be open and you'd just be like, I just can't keep up.
00:10:35
Speaker 2: Much like Los Angeles.
00:10:37
Speaker 1: That's true, too.
00:10:38
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:10:38
Speaker 1: That is true, too.
00:10:39
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:10:39
Speaker 1: That is true, too, now that I think about it. Yeah.
00:10:42
Speaker 2: I mean, I grew up here and it's like I've watched the city change.
00:10:46
Speaker 1: And the neighborhood fads. Oh, yeah. So take us back. We talked about Larry Sanders, which is really fun, but you've been on like 20 million things. So back in... I don't even know which things to ask you about. So back in 2002, which is probably when we filmed it.
00:11:02
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:11:03
Speaker 1: No, we could have filmed it.
00:11:04
Speaker 2: It could have been 03.
00:11:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, it could have been three because probably this is the season where we've started. This is 601. Oh yeah, it was definitely, it was like February.
00:11:13
Speaker 2: It was cold. Okay, got it. It was probably cold. It was funny because it was unseasonably not cold. And we were outside, so it wasn't terrible.
00:11:21
Speaker 1: Oh, good.
00:11:22
Speaker 2: I'm glad. I remember that.
00:11:22
Speaker 1: I'm glad.
00:11:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
00:11:23
Speaker 1: Because you were outside for a really specific reason. Dude. Your part is so funny and sad, and you do it so brilliantly. Like, tell us about, first of all, did you know about us? Did you want the part? Did you know? What was your deal?
00:11:38
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, yes, I was definitely a watcher. And so, yeah, I thought the show was great. I knew Sarah Jessica a little bit. Um, when I was 21, I, uh, I was the understudy in a play she was doing here in LA. Yeah. And I, a couple of years before I had done weird science with Robert. Oh my God. And so they were dating. And so I knew her, I'd met her. And so I got to, um, uh, understudy all the male parts, which were about three or four of them. And then, and then she was the lead female. Um, and thank God they didn't use me because I could not have covered four different guys.
00:12:20
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a lot.
00:12:21
Speaker 2: There's no way. No, I was just helping a director out that I worked with when I was a kid at any rate. So, uh, Sarah and I had that experience. And then so sweet, you know, to come on to set in 2003. And, you know, I walk in the trailer and she's there in makeup. They never send me the good ones. They never send me the good ones. Come on.
00:12:41
Speaker 1: And I was just like, oh, you're killing me.
00:12:46
Speaker 2: So great to see her. But it was funny because that audition, so I've been a fan. Yes, to answer your question. Secondly, that audition was the first time time I had ever done any kind of self tape. Oh, which is now ubiquitous. This is what we're doing. This is how the industry works.
00:13:06
Speaker 1: Wow.
00:13:07
Speaker 2: But I went to my manager's office and they put in a video cassette and I read with one of his assistants and got the job.
00:13:15
Speaker 1: That's insane. Yeah.
00:13:16
Speaker 2: It was insane.
00:13:17
Speaker 1: You did all this physical comedy on a, like in your manager's office. Yeah.
00:13:22
Speaker 2: I mean, it was like, I'm sitting in a chair, he's over there and I'm like flopping around like, like, like a bad Jerry Lewis. Um, and so got the job, which was great. And then went to New York, had never worked in New York, uh, before. And, um, Sarah was so sweet. I knew Pat Fields a little bit, uh, through mutual friends.
00:13:44
Speaker 1: Wow. Okay.
00:13:45
Speaker 2: Yep. And then, um, so it was fun to see her. And then Michael couldn't have been great to her. You know, he was fantastic.
00:13:53
Speaker 1: He directed this one too.
00:13:54
Speaker 2: He wrote it and directed it. And John, John was there too. Melfi was there too. And Sarah had brought James.
00:14:01
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:14:02
Speaker 2: That was her son? Yeah, the baby. Yeah, as a baby.
00:14:05
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:14:05
Speaker 2: Exactly.
00:14:05
Speaker 1: He's not anymore.
00:14:06
Speaker 2: No, I know.
00:14:07
Speaker 1: At that point, he was.
00:14:08
Speaker 2: I was telling my wife. Yeah, he's probably close to 30 now.
00:14:12
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm in denial. I'm in denial. We'd have to do the math, but probably. Yeah, that's really upsetting to think about.
00:14:18
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:14:18
Speaker 1: Very, very upsetting to think about.
00:14:20
Speaker 2: Well, let's not dwell on it.
00:14:22
Speaker 1: You're right. You're right.
00:14:23
Speaker 2: Let's, let's, let's, yes.
00:14:24
Speaker 1: We're back. He's a baby. He's adorable.
00:14:26
Speaker 2: We're babies.
00:14:27
Speaker 1: He's a baby. We're babies.
00:14:28
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I have more hair.
00:14:30
Speaker 1: It's great. Your hair looks great.
00:14:32
Speaker 2: Oh, thanks.
00:14:33
Speaker 1: You're welcome. So wait, you come and you knew, did you, what was the plan with the pigeon?
00:14:49
Speaker 2: Uh, okay. Do we remember? I don't know if there was a plan, but I'll tell you what happened.
00:14:56
Speaker 1: Tell me.
00:14:57
Speaker 2: Um, uh, the, uh, so I, I get to set, I think it was written into the script that that was all going to happen. Right. So, um, when I get there, um, you know, we're setting up outside and I don't know whether I had a stunt coordinator or they're just letting me do my bits, which I'm fine with. Cause I love, I love a good physical bit.
00:15:18
Speaker 1: Nice.
00:15:19
Speaker 2: Um, and I'm talking to a lady who is the pigeon wrangler.
00:15:24
Speaker 1: Wow. So we had real pigeons.
00:15:26
Speaker 2: Oh, there were real pigeons.
00:15:27
Speaker 1: Impressive.
00:15:28
Speaker 2: Okay. And a, um, quite a few, I think maybe up to five, six.
00:15:33
Speaker 1: Wow.
00:15:33
Speaker 2: Something like that.
00:15:34
Speaker 1: Okay. Okay.
00:15:35
Speaker 2: And so, um, she was in charge of making sure the gag worked. She placed the background pigeons. If you remember the episode, they pan off of this, these two very quiet pigeons going, you know, and then down to us. So they had the background pigeons and then, um, then they had the hero pigeon, which is supposed to land on my head. So, uh, now getting a pigeon to land on your head apparently is a lot harder than one would think. Um, I don't think they use treats or anything in my hair. No. Okay. But maybe they should have because the, the thing that ended up happening is that the Wrangler who's off screen is very gingerly tossing the pigeon. towards my head.
00:16:26
Speaker 1: That's scary.
00:16:26
Speaker 2: And, which is fine. Okay. You know, I'm like, okay, I'm committed. So, uh, you know, it would hit me in the ear or it would flop on my shoulder and fall off or it would hit my head and slide off.
00:16:40
Speaker 1: Oh my God.
00:16:41
Speaker 2: You know, I mean, it didn't know what to do. I'm sure it was happier just like, can I be a background pigeon and just sit and be chill for a while? Cause I'm, I'm hung over.
00:16:52
Speaker 1: The city is crazy.
00:16:53
Speaker 2: Um, But, no, what they ended up having to do was they took a bunch of bobby pins.
00:17:03
Speaker 1: Oh.
00:17:04
Speaker 2: And built a platform in my hair. Oh, my God. For the pigeon to kind of grab onto.
00:17:10
Speaker 1: Okay. Yeah.
00:17:13
Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah. Like a perch. It was a little platform. Oh, my God. Yeah, a little perch. Adorable. Yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah.
00:17:19
Speaker 1: And that worked? Yeah.
00:17:20
Speaker 2: It worked once because they got the shot.
00:17:23
Speaker 1: Got it, got it, got it, got it.
00:17:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:17:24
Speaker 1: And then did they get the thing out.
00:17:26
Speaker 2: Of your hair? No. Well, they left it in for the day until I was done, just in case they wanted to have more. So the initial one, the one that went well, was when there was the little toss, gently, gingerly. She was very lovely with the pigeons. And then the pigeon would land. And it like kind of stood there for a little bit. And I noticed. And then I kind of flip out and it goes away. So we got that once. It took about 10 to 12 tries maybe. Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. Yep. And then the second one, the second lob was sort of on my shoulder and flopped around and, you know. Uh, uh, but that was fine.
00:18:09
Speaker 1: Pigeon acting. Oh my gosh.
00:18:11
Speaker 2: Pigeon acting. Now the humans in the scene, we did about three or four takes. Very professional. You know, Sarah Jessica is a pro.
00:18:19
Speaker 1: Of course.
00:18:20
Speaker 2: Of course. Of course. I'm flopping around like a bad dog.
00:18:22
Speaker 1: I mean, you had a lot to do.
00:18:24
Speaker 2: Yes, I do. Wow. Yes.
00:18:26
Speaker 1: It was so good.
00:18:27
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you. And the funny thing was whenever I would watch sex in the city, I was like watching these guys who had guest star. And I was thinking, That would never happen.
00:18:37
Speaker 1: No, there's no way that would ever happen.
00:18:41
Speaker 2: You know, like, like they would be put in these ridiculous fun situations.
00:18:44
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:18:45
Speaker 2: And then here I am with a.
00:18:47
Speaker 1: A very extreme, really extreme situation. At least you weren't like funky spunk or something. Right.
00:18:54
Speaker 2: No, I would save that. Yeah, you really were.
00:18:56
Speaker 1: You really were.
00:18:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was sweet and kind of sad. Yeah.
00:19:00
Speaker 1: And I love the whole point of it, which is that at this point, she hasn't gone on her first date with Berger and she's building it up and she's buying outfits and stressing about it or whatever. And we're all like, you know, Samantha's like, don't worry about it. You know, everyone's got their point of view about it. And then she decides, she takes Samantha's, I guess, advice to go out with you as like a breaking the ice.
00:19:22
Speaker 2: I think you even corroborate. I think Charlotte even gets on board too.
00:19:25
Speaker 1: Which is interesting.
00:19:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I was like, yeah, you gotta do this.
00:19:28
Speaker 1: Right, she's spinning out so much that I'm like, yeah, yeah, take the pressure off.
00:19:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, shake the nerves out. Right. Get the yips out.
00:19:33
Speaker 1: Which I think is so great. And then like at the end, because it's such a mess and you're so nervous, you're so adorable. And then she's like, She has some line about like one person's first date is another person's bad date. You know what I'm saying? It's some sweet, like, you know, it puts things in perspective for her. And then at the end, she ends up calling burger, like kind of, um, she runs into him in the neighborhood of the movie theater and.
00:19:55
Speaker 2: She calls him on a pay phone.
00:19:56
Speaker 1: Exactly. With the quarters and everything.
00:19:58
Speaker 2: Uh, back in the day you could use a telephone.
00:20:01
Speaker 1: I know, I know.
00:20:03
Speaker 2: A public telephone and you put a dime and then later a quarter, uh, Yes. Into the slot, dial your number, and have a conversation on the phone.
00:20:11
Speaker 1: And she knew the number, which also cracked me up, right?
00:20:15
Speaker 2: And I guess he had a cell phone. Sure.
00:20:17
Speaker 1: Because we do have the cell phones already in the show, right? That is true, yeah. But it's that weird, awkward time where there's both.
00:20:23
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:20:23
Speaker 1: But she doesn't have hers because it takes Carrie a long time to get a cell phone for some reason.
00:20:28
Speaker 2: That's right. That's right, yeah. She was old school. And then she got that flip phone. The fact she had the memory to... She had the number, man. She got his number.
00:20:34
Speaker 1: I mean, I had so many thoughts when she went to that pay phone. Like, I remembered how they used to smell. I was a little concerned about germs.
00:20:41
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:20:41
Speaker 1: Like I had a very 2026 viewpoint. I was like, oh God, don't touch it. And then I was like, no, she has to make the call. Totally. But you know how there are some still, like you can find them, but they don't have the receiver.
00:20:53
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:20:54
Speaker 1: And they just stink like to high heaven.
00:20:57
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, they haven't been cleaned since 78.
00:20:59
Speaker 1: And why are they still there?
00:21:00
Speaker 2: You know, but my whole thing is just always checking the slot for a dime or a quarter.
00:21:05
Speaker 1: Smart.
00:21:06
Speaker 2: Always.
00:21:06
Speaker 1: Smart.
00:21:07
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:21:07
Speaker 1: Yeah. smart Wally smart I mean it is so funny to watch like the details change over time you know but I do I do love it like I miss those those things.
00:21:19
Speaker 2: I know it's so analog and we don't have that anymore.
00:21:22
Speaker 1: But maybe we'll go back maybe we'll just like be like you know what we don't want to be killed by AI maybe we should just chuck the whole idea.
00:21:32
Speaker 2: Well we can only hope I I love a simpler time I'm definitely someone who likes to be able to almost like a carpenter likes to be able to make that cut and look at that angle and see that work. And great. I did that. Look what I did, you know, as opposed to being theoretical and, and, and trying to, figure out something that I just don't have the math for because I'm not that bright.
00:21:59
Speaker 1: I agree with you. I mean, I also think in a weird way, that's, what's fun about acting. Right. And you know, like, because you go, you, it's a certain challenge of the day. Like you're talking about the pigeon, like you're seen, of course, with Sarah is the most important part, but that part's easy.
00:22:13
Speaker 2: Right.
00:22:14
Speaker 1: Cause you're a great actor. You know, you're, you're, you're.
00:22:16
Speaker 2: I have a great partner too. So it's easy.
00:22:18
Speaker 1: All the things are there. All the things that you need are there. Dialogue's great. And Michael's great, great director, blah, blah, blah. Yep. but yet you have to have a pigeon land on your head. So you're like, okay, you have to be a part of the team. How do we solve this problem? And then you guys get, everyone gets together on the set. That's what I love about it. Like it's very hands on in a weird way, though. It's also a kind of magical thing.
00:22:39
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I think that the luxury of it is that you, you know, you bring in the, the crew and the lights and the thing and the sound and everything. And you set up this place to, to exist. Yeah. And then, Yeah, then it's boots on the ground. How do we solve any problem that comes up?
00:22:58
Speaker 1: Right, right. Which is fun.
00:22:59
Speaker 2: It's great.
00:23:00
Speaker 1: It's really fun.
00:23:00
Speaker 2: It's great.
00:23:01
Speaker 1: And the other thing that I thought about when I was watching your scene, number one, it's just such a sweet scene. And number two, the crazy pigeon, which I wanted to hear about. Number three, just the physical comedy. Like, had you had a lot of opportunity before to do that?
00:23:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, I... Uh, let's see. Physical comedy, comedy per se. No, but.
00:23:22
Speaker 1: Cause it's kind of rare. I feel like.
00:23:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is actually to be able to be that physical with all of it. Um, but, uh, no physical comedy. It was more stunt work. I'd actually done a lot of, um, uh, like at that time I was, I'm sorry. When in my younger years, like 19 and in my twenties, um, doing, like, independent films and stuff where you had to do your own stunts.
00:23:46
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:23:47
Speaker 2: And I loved doing that. I loved, you know, taking a punch or falling down or whatever.
00:23:51
Speaker 1: That stuff's fun, but it's hard.
00:23:52
Speaker 2: It is. It is. Yeah, yeah, it is. But better than getting punched. Because I walked into a stuntman demonstrating a punch to someone.
00:24:01
Speaker 1: Oh, no, oh, no.
00:24:01
Speaker 2: And I'm like, I thought my jaw was broken. And he wasn't even going full bore. But, yeah. No, that was, I love physical comedy. I got to do, yeah. So that was like a playground for me because it was the chair. And Michael, we all talked about like, how do you want this? Do you want it big and this and that? And he was great. He was like, just, do it.
00:24:31
Speaker 1: It was great.
00:24:32
Speaker 2: Surprise me.
00:24:32
Speaker 1: It was so good.
00:24:33
Speaker 2: And so it, it evolved, it evolved from falling backwards. And then, and then it came, you know, then I came up and pushed the table over and it was like, so like all this stuff that kind of expanded as, you know, like you said, you have this kind of contained environment where you can, you know, just, uh, uh, make stuff up.
00:24:52
Speaker 1: Also, I think with physical comedy, if they do give you some room, um, Like you have the thing that you're trying to do, right? And the effect that you want it to have in the scene and the other character. But if you're not too locked in, then you can really just play and have fun.
00:25:06
Speaker 2: Oh, for sure.
00:25:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that so much.
00:25:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, me too.
00:25:08
Speaker 1: But it's hard and not everyone can do it. So I think it's just so great that you're so good at things that- Well, thank you. You wouldn't necessarily, because you also are like the straight man. Yes. So it's interesting that you can- Well, to.
00:25:18
Speaker 2: Try to keep, it was funny because the Simudate, it was- a very, it's, it seems like a departure of a date that wouldn't really happen in reality, but the fact that it is happening was so, um, just remarkable and so great for Carrie to go like, Oh, I don't have anything to worry about this guys. This is a disaster. I'm just going to go see a movie with burger. Great. Um, so, uh, no, it was, it was a blast.
00:26:03
Speaker 1: Tell me again. So you're here in LA, you self tape to get our job, which is also kind of crazy.
00:26:08
Speaker 2: Yep. Right.
00:26:09
Speaker 1: Like I don't even know how people do this nowadays because you're just by yourself.
00:26:12
Speaker 2: I can tell you how they do it. I'm doing it every week. You are? Oh yeah.
00:26:17
Speaker 1: No way. Oh yeah. At home. Yeah.
00:26:19
Speaker 2: At home.
00:26:19
Speaker 1: What, tell me your process.
00:26:21
Speaker 2: It's a, it's a, an iPhone and a ring light. And I have a plug in microphone that I can attach to my shirt and, And you catch me here to here and, you know.
00:26:33
Speaker 1: Do you learn your lines or do you hold the script?
00:26:35
Speaker 2: I learn my lines. Got it.
00:26:36
Speaker 1: Because I feel like that works better.
00:26:38
Speaker 2: I think so. It puts a lot of pressure or it did initially put a lot of pressure on me.
00:26:43
Speaker 1: Right.
00:26:44
Speaker 2: And my lovely wife is behind the camera doing. Uh, hair, makeup, uh, wardrobe, uh, directing and camera work. Um, yes. And, and, and also reading.
00:26:57
Speaker 1: Amazing.
00:26:59
Speaker 2: Um, so I'm lucky.
00:27:01
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:27:01
Speaker 2: Um, but before I would go into like a self tape place and work with somebody, you know, that's, that's fine. But, uh, I prefer this. I don't have to leave my house.
00:27:09
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:27:10
Speaker 2: Um, and sometimes I wear shorts. And you wouldn't even know it.
00:27:15
Speaker 1: Amazing. So let's say you self-tape, because I don't do this that much, right? I've done it like twice.
00:27:20
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what to do.
00:27:21
Speaker 1: Tell me what to do, but also this is what I'm curious about.
00:27:23
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:27:24
Speaker 1: Then afterwards, like let's say they're like, yeah, Wally's right for this part. Do you meet people? Or they just phone you up and say like, show up here.
00:27:32
Speaker 2: 99% of the jobs that I get is you've got the job and then you show up. Wow.
00:27:42
Speaker 1: That's crazy.
00:27:42
Speaker 2: But having said that, Um, there are, I've heard of, I haven't had, I haven't dealt with this, but sometimes you'll get a redirect. Like we loved the read, but could he or she do blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So then you take some direction. Then you do it again.
00:27:58
Speaker 1: Crazy.
00:27:59
Speaker 2: I know. Oh my God.
00:28:00
Speaker 1: Like in the olden days, it was all in the room in person and they direct you and you show that you could take direction.
00:28:05
Speaker 2: Oh, I know. And I, I went on my first, uh, in-person audition, uh, earlier this year and just, it was just a hoot. It was just so much fun.
00:28:13
Speaker 1: I know.
00:28:14
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I like walked in and I was like, I'm oddly not nervous.
00:28:18
Speaker 1: Because it takes the onus off in person. Whereas back in the olden days, it was scary to be in person because also sometimes there'd be like so many people there and the vibe would be weird. Right.
00:28:29
Speaker 2: It was the worst.
00:28:30
Speaker 1: Right. It was the worst.
00:28:31
Speaker 2: I remember when I was reading for Larry Sanders and I was in, I was in a room. Gary and his producer were across the hall. Oh. And there was other actors in the room with me waiting.
00:28:46
Speaker 1: Okay, okay.
00:28:47
Speaker 2: And so we were waiting to go into that room.
00:28:49
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, okay.
00:28:50
Speaker 2: Across the hall.
00:28:50
Speaker 1: Got it.
00:28:51
Speaker 2: Right? And, you know, we're waiting, and I'm sitting there with my sides, and Gary pokes his head in as he's walking to the hallway. He goes, yeah, I don't think I want to be in this room. And then he keeps walking. Okay.
00:29:06
Speaker 1: He's so silly.
00:29:07
Speaker 2: He's so funny. But yeah, just the nerves. It was crazy.
00:29:12
Speaker 1: Right, but now you just want human beings in front of you.
00:29:16
Speaker 2: I know. I thought I didn't.
00:29:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting.
00:29:18
Speaker 2: For the first couple of years, because this all happened during 2020, COVID. For the first few years, I'm like, are you kidding me? This is a jackpot. I don't have to drive an hour to Santa Monica to sit in traffic, to sit for another half an hour driving to do my thing for 10 minutes and then drive two hours home.
00:29:36
Speaker 1: Good point.
00:29:37
Speaker 2: That's great. Right. You know, and I thought it was going to be a lot easier. It was fun, but the novelty wore off very quickly.
00:29:43
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
00:29:45
Speaker 2: And so, um, I'm, I'm, I'm glad that casting is open to having a in-person and you know, this, the, the, the, the lesser version of that is having the live zooms.
00:29:59
Speaker 1: Well, that's where I was going to get to next. Cause when we were doing the casting for, and just like that, it was like 2021, I want to say, and it was so fascinating. So especially for the younger people who are playing our kids, right. Who, I mean, probably didn't know about real regular casting, right? Because they were young during COVID, right? And their self-tapes were incredible. I can only imagine how hard they worked on it at home with their parents, sure to be. They were like so good. And then we had to do this group Zoom with like so many people. We were trying to talk because like our producers and casting and them and it was not conducive. I was like, you can't. judge anyone's personality or whatever from.
00:30:44
Speaker 2: That it's tough right yeah i would think it would be tough because when you get in the room you know you see the human being and uh you know listen i've had auditions in the room where i think that i have just completely ruined it And I walk out, and actually it went well, and I just couldn't tell. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. So it's like you never know. You never know what they're looking for, what quality it is that they want that you just happen to have.
00:31:13
Speaker 1: Definitely.
00:31:14
Speaker 2: And so, yeah, I do miss going back in the room.
00:31:18
Speaker 1: Me too. I mean, I also just like to talk to people. It's nice to talk to people.
00:31:23
Speaker 2: I agree.
00:31:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's hard on Zoom to really talk to people.
00:31:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. It does feel a little bit like, uh, uh, the, you know, the, the hamburger mill where it's like, right. Put in the grinder. Let's go. Okay. Next.
00:31:36
Speaker 1: Yep.
00:31:36
Speaker 2: Um, so yeah, I, I agree with you, you know, and I try to bring that to, uh, any of the zoom sessions or what have you, because it's like, Hey, I'm, we're talking and like, how's it going? I'm great. How are you? You know? Yeah. And so, Interestingly enough, I've gotten feedback from certain auditions where it's like, he was so nice to me. I didn't expect that from an actor. It's like, they're so nice.
00:32:00
Speaker 1: I think because usually they're just scared.
00:32:02
Speaker 2: Yeah. Do you know what I mean?
00:32:03
Speaker 1: You're like, I don't know even who's, who's all in the waiting room of this room or whatever. It's so weird.
00:32:08
Speaker 2: Well, the cast, it was just on the casting end. The casting end were like, wow, he was so nice to, like, they don't, they don't expect it anymore. They're like, okay, we got to do this. And like, yeah. So it's like, yeah.
00:32:19
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:32:19
Speaker 2: It's a whole different.
00:32:20
Speaker 1: It's a whole different. I mean, you've been acting for so long. You must've just seen so many changes. Like, what do you think of the current situation?
00:32:27
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. It's, um.
00:32:30
Speaker 1: It's crazy, right?
00:32:30
Speaker 2: Wow, it is. Yeah, I mean, when you put it like that, I'm very old. No, that's not what I meant. No, it's, yes, it has changed drastically and dramatically. And the interesting thing that I can say about it is that the creativity, getting to the creativity can happen much faster than it used to. Interesting. As far as people getting things made, people getting them on air and things like that. It's almost instantaneous now, which is fascinating to me because this was always my complaint first. um, you know, back when I started and we were shooting on.
00:33:14
Speaker 1: Film, it's like, you know, first it's very different.
00:33:17
Speaker 2: You go in, you have, you meet the casting director, then you come back and meet the casting director again. Then you meet the producer and then you meet the studio people. And then you go to the network and then you wait and you wait and you wait. And then maybe you get it. And then if you get it, then you have to shoot it. And then it's not going to be out for another six months. Yes. So it's, that's, you know, interesting to me because I, I guess, look, if I can make a stupid analogy and not sound so pretentious, it almost feels like you're doing sculpture. It's like if I took clay and I could mold it and put it into the thing, it's like I see what I've done. And with the technology now, it's so easy. We're shooting on a couple of phones and there's a couple of lights and it's bingo. It's right there. You can stop, rewind it, look at it and go, Yeah, I didn't like that. Maybe I'll change this and I could do that. So that to me is a little more fascinating. That's a good point.
00:34:17
Speaker 1: I hadn't thought about it that way. It's true. And I also think I've been meeting people lately out in the world because I left the house. And sometimes I get to meet people here who are young and started by putting videos on Instagram and now have shows. It's so important.
00:34:34
Speaker 2: That's the part that I feel like such a dinosaur about because that's not my path.
00:34:38
Speaker 1: No, you know, and it's not, we didn't have that opportunity.
00:34:41
Speaker 2: No.
00:34:42
Speaker 1: And it's so impressive to me that they can do that. Like the self generated element is amazing.
00:34:49
Speaker 2: Anybody can do it. And that's, what's interesting is that, um, the, uh, the, the, that everybody I've seen this to my wife the other day is like, everyone's a cameraman. Everyone's talking to themselves or they're talking about their food or they're, you know, they're just documenting their life. And so there's an ease to it that I certainly had to, and I'm not great at it still. It's like, you know, I'll get on set and be like, hi, everybody. I'm nervous, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they've grown up in front of, you know, just being out there. It's so true.
00:35:29
Speaker 1: And for us dinosaurs, it's a whole adjustment thing. And it's so interesting. Like sometimes Cynthia and I went out to these Emmy parties because she didn't bring her wife trip. And so she was like, come out with me. I was like, okay. So the first night we go out, we have a great time. We see so many people. It's a big thing. And we take no pictures, right? Because we forget. Yeah.
00:35:48
Speaker 2: Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah.
00:35:49
Speaker 1: We just don't think about it. We were enjoying other people, you know?
00:35:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
00:35:53
Speaker 1: And then she texts me like, did you take any pictures?
00:35:55
Speaker 2: I was like, shit.
00:35:56
Speaker 1: Did you take any pictures?
00:35:58
Speaker 2: She's like, I didn't.
00:35:59
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh my God, I have to ask my manager. Did he take any pictures?
00:36:02
Speaker 2: No. Cause he's our age.
00:36:03
Speaker 1: Right.
00:36:03
Speaker 2: Right.
00:36:04
Speaker 1: So then the next night we were like, we're going to do better. We're going to do better. We completely forgot. We took no pictures. We were having so much fun. You know what?
00:36:12
Speaker 2: I celebrate that. And I'm glad you didn't.
00:36:14
Speaker 1: Thank you. I agree.
00:36:15
Speaker 2: It's really interesting. When the goal is to take pictures, um, I think it takes me out of the moment.
00:36:22
Speaker 1: It takes you out of the moment, absolutely.
00:36:23
Speaker 2: I'm not going to talk about anybody else, but it takes me out of the moment. Even to such a degree, like even when my wife and I are out, it's like, can I get a picture? No, we're just having a nice time. You're right. We're having a nice time.
00:36:35
Speaker 1: Right, right, right. New pictures for me.
00:36:36
Speaker 2: I'm not, I don't post. I'm not on any social media. I don't do any of that. But it's, it's. It's more from my memory, but I'm like, no, I have the memory. I have the experience.
00:36:45
Speaker 1: It's so true. It's so true. The good news for us was that there were professional photographers at both of these events.
00:36:51
Speaker 2: Congratulations.
00:36:52
Speaker 1: So there are pictures.
00:36:53
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:36:53
Speaker 1: We just had to find them.
00:36:55
Speaker 2: By the way, there will always be pictures.
00:36:57
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, sometimes not, though.
00:36:58
Speaker 2: Somebody will take it. Oh, come on.
00:37:00
Speaker 1: No, honestly. You can't step out.
00:37:02
Speaker 2: Of your door and go to an event and not expect somebody to have a picture of you. I mean, that's a good point. Or even a video.
00:37:08
Speaker 1: That's a good point. But like, I guess because- I guess because we didn't have them to do with as we chose. You know what I'm trying to say? Because both she and I are on social media. We have young ladies who help us. I call them the digital girlies.
00:37:23
Speaker 2: Great.
00:37:23
Speaker 1: We have the digital girlies. And they were kind of sad that we had not done better.
00:37:27
Speaker 2: And that's an obligation that you want to have. Right. Yeah, I totally get it.
00:37:32
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:37:33
Speaker 2: And so, but the thing that you really put your finger on is the fact that you're from an age where You just are enjoying your friend. Absolutely. And it's not about that. No, it's not.
00:37:46
Speaker 1: It's not. It's not presentational or whatever or performative, I guess, would be the worst case scenario.
00:37:53
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:37:53
Speaker 1: But also it's interesting because like it's so powerful also to connect online, right? So like digitally you can make connections online. In good ways.
00:38:03
Speaker 2: Instantaneously.
00:38:04
Speaker 1: Instantaneously, like we were talking about. So there's positives and negatives. It's so interesting. Anyway, you guys, this is so much fun that we are going to have to have a part two. So join us later in the week on RUS Charlotte.