Oct. 8, 2026
Texas Carries Out First Execution Since Botched Lethal Injection Of Christa Pike
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RSS Feed A Texas man was executed after a nearly two hour delay on Wednesday using the exact same, single dose method of pentobarbital that Tennessee administered to Christa Pike. The outcome was very different for 46-year-old Jamaal Howard, who was pronounced dead within 15 minutes. Howard apologized to his victim’s family in his final words, after being convicted in the shooting death of convenience store worker Vickie Swartout back in 2000.
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00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hey there folks, it is Thursday, October 8th. Texas showed Tennessee last night how it's done. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. One week after that botched execution in Tennessee robes, Texas was using the same method last night to execute somebody. And it worked.
00:00:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, and everybody was holding their breath because this was, and yes, it is the first execution since the botched execution of Krista Pike. It happened to fall exactly on the one week anniversary. And yes, it just so happens that Texas uses the exact same technique. single dose method of pentobarbital that Tennessee used.
00:00:50
Speaker 1: So chances, right. I mean, it could have been in Alabama. This one could have been in Florida where they use different methods, but we happen to have one using the exact same method. We had reason to be holding our breath last night.
00:01:01
Speaker 2: And if we were holding our breaths, I can't imagine what Jamal Howard must've been feeling because, knowing, and we know that he was briefed.
00:01:09
Speaker 3: On what happened to Krista Pike.
00:01:10
Speaker 2: We heard from his spiritual advisor who made the decision to explain to him what happened to Krista. And I don't know, we've talked about whether or not that was the right call, because can you imagine if he didn't have knowledge of that before he was told of it?
00:01:25
Speaker 3: Now that's in your head.
00:01:26
Speaker 2: Now you're thinking that the entire time, not am I going to, or am I going to die, but it's whether or not I will.
00:01:34
Speaker 3: And how much will it hurt and how long will it take?
00:01:37
Speaker 1: Yeah. And am I going to be mutilated in some way in this? Well, he was his spiritual advisor. We talked about this yesterday, was the one who said that Jamal Howard said to him, well, it doesn't work. They just shoot me in the head. And they talk about this man, Jamal Howard, having mental disabilities and his IQ was around 70. And his spiritual advisor even mentioned that he didn't really fully even understand necessarily What the process was and how it worked. He thought maybe they could just pull out a gun and shoot him in the head. This was all just a mess in a lot of ways from a horrific crime from 26 years ago. But last night, Rogues, we went through another ceremony, if you will, in this country. And this one worked, but it did come with, I guess, drama because of a delay.
00:02:22
Speaker 2: Yes, we were, as many people were, keeping our eye on this, and he was expected or he was scheduled to die by lethal injection at 6 p.m. Central Time there in Texas. But that was 7 p.m. our time, and by 8 p.m. our time still, I saw you just constantly hitting refresh. On the computer screen trying to see if the execution had gone forward or if it had even begun at that point.
00:02:48
Speaker 1: There was no information for a while. And then stuff started trickling out and it was limited information. There was a local Dallas affiliate that finally got hold of some information and the attorney at least had said that there was. Supreme Court was still looking into it. And Robes, you can't go forward and execute a guy that the Supreme Court might then later you find out they ruled to stop the execution. So they had to sit and wait. And there were several issues they had before the Supreme Court. And so that was the delay.
00:03:19
Speaker 2: Yes, the first one was the aforementioned intellectual disability. And so with an IQ of 70, and certainly from the beginning, even beforehand, he was known to have a limited mental capacity.
00:03:33
Speaker 3: He was mentally childlike, the way he's been described.
00:03:38
Speaker 1: And look, that was the argument before the whole Krista Pike stuff. They were trying to make this argument in court for a long time that this is someone you cannot execute. The Supreme Court has made rulings on executing somebody with mental disability, and they have even toyed around with an exact IQ score, Rose, but folks can't agree on what it is. Which test?
00:03:59
Speaker 3: What's the score?
00:04:00
Speaker 1: Should you take the average of all the scores? All that stuff. Would they say he had a 70? So anyway, they made that argument. That one didn't work last night. It hadn't worked previously. Rose, they had a new argument. they can make after what happened to Krista Pike.
00:04:12
Speaker 2: Not surprising, yes. Concerns over the method, concerns over lethal injection. His attorneys were asking even just for a delay, a month-long delay for the state of Texas to be transparent about the drugs or the drug because it's just one, yes, the pentobarbital, but where it came from, what its expiration date was. All of those things, they wanted those questions answered or at least examined before they went through with the execution.
00:04:40
Speaker 1: And the governor could have done that. The law there doesn't allow him to just say, ah, I'm going to commute this guy's sentence. But it does allow him to give a 30-day reprieve. Governor Abbott did not.
00:04:50
Speaker 3: No, he did not. And so we did learn eventually, I.
00:04:55
Speaker 2: Guess about an hour delay or so, when the Supreme Court finally decided that his appeals were denied.
00:05:01
Speaker 3: And that was his last shot.
00:05:02
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
00:05:03
Speaker 3: Of avoiding execution or at least delaying execution.
00:05:06
Speaker 1: And they moved forward in robes. It cleared the way and they moved forward. It was as if they were standing by with a needle in hand almost waiting for word to move forward. And they sure did. Now, as always, there were witnesses in the room. There were family members of his in the room as well. In Rome, we get different reports. It's always fascinating to hear what's happening in that gallery. But these were the reports we were getting last night from folks who were witnessing this. said he did take a few breaths and gasped when they first administered the lethal injection. At some point, they started hearing snoring sounds that, as they continued, those kept getting quieter and quieter. In Rome, they said only 30 seconds, no more movement from him.
00:05:49
Speaker 2: And that, look, that is how it should happen. That is how we would hope it would happen today. And obviously that is the opposite of what happened in the Krista Pike scenario.
00:06:00
Speaker 3: So what did Texas do differently?
00:06:03
Speaker 1: Rose, who put the needle in his arm? That person should be hired.
00:06:07
Speaker 3: 30 seconds.
00:06:08
Speaker 1: Travel all over the country. If you got somebody who knows how to do this. And Rose, they said it was 16 or 19 minutes that he was declared dead. So from the start of the process to the end was 15 minutes or so. He's declared dead. I guess that is, you know what, that is what Americans can stomach. We executed somebody, how'd it go? We put a needle in his arm, he was dead in 15 minutes.
00:06:29
Speaker 2: I mean, this sounds awful, but if you've got a pet in distress and you have to take it to the vet to put it out of its misery, so to speak, yes, oftentimes you'll hold your pet and they will administer. I don't know if it's the same type of chemical, but that's what you want. You want to see someone peacefully... And if even if, yes, they're accused of a violent crime, we don't want to cause pain to anyone. I can't imagine that the government would want to ever sanction that. So to think that this actually was conducted in the way, I guess, the best way possible, the humanist way possible.
00:07:19
Speaker 1: What can you say? There are no reports of his discomfort or his yelling out or saying anything else. They put a needle in his arm, and in 30 seconds, he never moved again. That's remarkable. So we were working on the time here. We worked backwards then. He was declared dead at 8.03. So if you go back, so around 7.45, I guess, so it was about an hour and 45-minute delay. and getting this thing going.
00:07:43
Speaker 2: Waiting on the Supreme Court, that had to be, that was the excruciating part, I imagine, for him, for his family members, for anyone there who loved Jamal Howard, and his sister was in there. And this nugget from the death chamber.
00:08:01
Speaker 3: Was chilling. And it's just a reminder of.
00:08:03
Speaker 2: The cost and the price that people pay and the tragedy and how many people suffered because of the crime that was committed, but including his own family members.
00:08:12
Speaker 3: His sister had to be escorted out. She said, get me out of here.
00:08:16
Speaker 2: I don't think that I, I guess if my brother or if a family member asked me to be there, but I would never choose to be there.
00:08:26
Speaker 3: That would be too difficult to witness.
00:08:28
Speaker 1: I don't know, babe. As a family member, he doesn't have anybody else that cares about him, loves him. The last moment on earth that you want him to know that somebody gave a damn about him, it's that thing, baby. It's for that family member. And even though as difficult as it sounds, and I hear what you're saying, it's for that. I mean, your last moment.
00:08:46
Speaker 3: You can never unsee that.
00:08:48
Speaker 1: Oof. But how horrible would be to think you could have been there and you didn't. And then in the last moments, they thought, nobody's here for me and nobody cares. All this is just horrific stuff, baby. No matter if he did, yeah, he went to sleep peacefully. Still awful.
00:09:02
Speaker 3: It's still awful.
00:09:03
Speaker 2: And his final words, I thought, were, look, we don't always get final words. And I would say the majority of the time, we do not get an apology or even an admission.
00:09:13
Speaker 3: A lot of times.
00:09:15
Speaker 2: Death row inmates will go to their death swearing their innocence.
00:09:19
Speaker 3: And this was different.
00:09:21
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, we do hear that sometimes. I forgot about that. Sometimes they do say, got the wrong guy. You're messing up. That's pretty horrific. Hell, even Krista Pike last week had final words that didn't really sit well with a lot of folks and certainly couldn't have sat well with Colleen Slimmer, her victim's mom.
00:09:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to leave my life the way I lived most of it, with love. That's tough when you've brutalized someone. But we got a very different final moment from Jamal Howard. And I think this is important to remember. I do think the power of an apology is real. It doesn't bring back the victim. It doesn't bring back Vicki Swarthout.
00:09:58
Speaker 3: But certainly.
00:09:59
Speaker 2: I would imagine it provides some sort of peace to the people who loved her, and they certainly wanted to see this execution.
00:10:06
Speaker 3: Take place. Just a reminder. She was a convenience store clerk. This was back.
00:10:10
Speaker 2: In 2000 and Jamal Howard went in there and basically just, I think he tried to shoot her.
00:10:18
Speaker 3: The gun didn't go off.
00:10:19
Speaker 2: She screamed and then he got the gun to work and shot her in the chest. and he was able to get $ 114, reached over her body to grab cigarettes, and according to reports, he asked her as she lay there dying, is there any more money anywhere?
00:10:37
Speaker 3: And just, it's awful and brutal.
00:10:39
Speaker 2: They found him hiding in a closet in an abandoned home, I believe, pretty shortly afterwards. He was all caught on surveillance camera committing this crime, so there was no question about his guilt or innocence.
00:10:52
Speaker 3: But yes, he's been on death row longer than he had been alive.
00:10:55
Speaker 2: He was 20 years old at the time, spent 26 years on death row, and at the age of 46, he had his final words to offer to the family of Vicky Swartout.
00:11:05
Speaker 1: That dude's younger than I am. Man, that's a hell of a life, man, to spend the majority of a 46-year life behind bars. He was on death row longer than he was alive. A free man in this world.
00:11:22
Speaker 3: That's right.
00:11:22
Speaker 1: That is incredible. But he did apologize to the family here, Robes. This was, look, this was, this is, Robes, there's a, I don't know, if a sympathy or what you're supposed to feel after a monstrous act, after a murder. Robes, this is just, these words hit different.
00:11:45
Speaker 3: They do.
00:11:46
Speaker 1: They do.
00:11:47
Speaker 2: He said, I apologize to the Swartout family. And I wish you had closure and peace. I wish that you accept my apology. And I wish for your forgiveness. I'm sorry for what happened. I thank y'all. Hey, enjoy life and peace to y'all. Warden, that's it.
00:12:08
Speaker 3: I'm ready.
00:12:08
Speaker 1: That sucks. Well, that's just, that's what we do. It's what we do in this country. But it went forward and we have now executed the, what is this, 30th? 30th. 30th person in the United States this year. We are in October, and we are not done. Stay here. There are more executions upcoming, including three that are going to happen on the same day.
00:12:46
Speaker 2: Welcome back, everyone, to Amy and TJ. Texas carried out its seventh execution of the year, but more notably, this was the first execution in this country since the botched execution of Krista Pike. It landed on the exact one-week anniversary, and it happened using the exact same single dose of pentobarbital. This was a much different outcome than what we saw in Tennessee.
00:13:12
Speaker 1: Looking at this now, after what they did a.
00:13:14
Speaker 3: Week ago, They may say, well, he had better veins than Krista Pike.
00:13:17
Speaker 1: He had better veins. Okay.
00:13:20
Speaker 3: I don't know.
00:13:20
Speaker 2: Just trying to guess what people might say to try to cover up what happened. Not cover up, but explain what happened.
00:13:26
Speaker 1: No issues. Without a hitch last night. 15 minutes.
00:13:29
Speaker 3: 15 minutes.
00:13:31
Speaker 2: And seemingly, when the lethal dose of penobarbital went into his bloodstream, in about 30 seconds, he stopped breathing.
00:13:39
Speaker 3: That's how it should happen.
00:13:40
Speaker 1: 30 seconds. 30 seconds. Oh, my God.
00:13:43
Speaker 2: But we've got plenty of executions coming up to Alone this month, and they're both in Florida.
00:13:49
Speaker 1: Bro, this is Florida, Florida, Florida, Florida. So, yeah, we've got James Robertson coming up. These are actually going to be a week apart. I got that date wrong, but they are a week apart. So in about a week, we've got James Robertson, and then after that, it's going to be William Reeves Jr. Now, this is of note there in Florida, Robes, because they are ticking up to their record. So they got two this month and they got three more scheduled for the year in total. This would put them, the Robes, up to 19, which was their record from last year. So they got three on the books left this year would put them to 19. But we know DeSantis is not scared to sign as many as they put across his tables.
00:14:29
Speaker 2: We've seen Governor DeSantis just keep adding and adding and adding more scheduled executions.
00:14:35
Speaker 3: So I, what is this?
00:14:37
Speaker 2: It's October 8th right now. I can only imagine he's going to be signing some more death warrants.
00:14:42
Speaker 1: When we started the year, we looked at the schedule. They might have only had one schedule.
00:14:47
Speaker 3: Yes, these come up.
00:14:48
Speaker 2: And again, I want to get some more insight into how and why they determined who is up for execution dates, but I do know he has made a point to try and go and get some of the longest serving death row inmates.
00:15:03
Speaker 3: So Florida has executed folks who have been on.
00:15:06
Speaker 2: For, yes, literally the last string have all been in their seventies, late seventies. There was even an 80 year old. So he is absolutely folks who have been on death row for 40 years, one, even 50 years. So look, I understand this is, there's a point in which A victim's family has been waiting far, far too long for closure. And so he is trying to give closure to those families.
00:15:29
Speaker 1: And I think we would feel differently. Robes, a lot of these are, they literally are propping old men up on gurneys. Robes, these guys are in bad shape. A lot of them. And I do think what you were saying, if you support the death penalty, you should be able to watch it. I think, Robes, if there was video of what we're doing to Old men. Don't you remember? They hadn't paid for their crimes, but they should have paid for them maybe 30 years ago when they were in better health. We are lifting up nursing home patients and plopping them down. They can't walk into the damn death chamber. I didn't check the ages on these two, actually, the next two coming up in Florida. I'll try to take a quick look as we continue on here.
00:16:16
Speaker 2: Yes, but the big, you just kind of teased this ahead of time, but yes, on November 5th, so yes, less than a month from now, we're going to have another day where there are three executions in one day, not in the same state. But we've got one in Florida, one in Indiana, and one in Alabama. And they're all taking place again on November 5th.
00:16:40
Speaker 1: It's a hell of a day. We had another... Was there another day this year that we had.
00:16:46
Speaker 3: Yes.
00:16:47
Speaker 1: We had two in the same state. Was that.
00:16:48
Speaker 3: That was Florida.
00:16:49
Speaker 1: Two in the same state.
00:16:50
Speaker 3: They did it one in the morning, one in the afternoon.
00:16:52
Speaker 1: And then there was another day where there were three, I believe.
00:16:55
Speaker 3: Three in three different states. So, yes.
00:16:58
Speaker 1: This just happens to fall like this, Robes. But those are... that's going to be a hell of a day in this country.
00:17:06
Speaker 2: I mean, Robes, especially given, I think, especially given what happened with Krista Pike, I think now people are waiting to hear what went wrong or it just, it's such an awful feeling to think that we're extending people's pain. People are twisting in the wind. We don't know how to properly and peacefully kill someone. So, Yes, once we've seen that happen and the trauma that takes place when you just actually listen to the details and read the details, to think that that could happen to another human being regardless of what crime they committed, it creates a different level of anticipation when you hear about these executions.
00:17:47
Speaker 1: We need to look into Indiana and Alabama. I can't remember what. Alabama can't use the gas anymore, so they stopped that. So what method are they going to use on November 5th? Indiana, I'm not sure. They don't have a lot there either. But the two, you just mentioned in Florida, robes, those two guys, one of them 63 and.
00:18:03
Speaker 3: The other one is 77.
00:18:05
Speaker 1: William Reeves Jr. That they're going to execute 77. My word. But folks, we keep an eye on these. They are important robes. We need to know what's happening, why it's happening, and if we want it to keep happening in this country. But they are, these aren't, we talk about the statistics and the numbers a lot, but there are, Moms and daughters and sons and sisters, and yes, even the criminals themselves. There are human beings behind all these stories, Robes, that you have to get beyond the numbers to see. And your heart can hurt for all of them, frankly.
00:18:43
Speaker 3: Yes, there's tragedy all around.
00:18:47
Speaker 2: But something that I think our country is trying to figure out, and I don't know which direction we're headed in. It just depends on the state you live in, perhaps. And maybe your level of tolerance.
00:19:00
Speaker 1: Your influence. Tennessee is talking about getting rid of the death penalty. Texas is like, no problems here.
00:19:07
Speaker 3: Florida, no problems here.
00:19:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, we put a needle in his arm. He was dead in 15 minutes. We've got no issues here. So, right. Maybe moods around the country will be. unique to each.
00:19:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've certainly seen that before, but we will continue to keep our eye on it all. We always appreciate you listening to us, everyone. I'm Amy Robach alongside TJ Holmes.
00:19:27
Speaker 3: We'll talk soon.
Speaker 1: Hey there folks, it is Thursday, October 8th. Texas showed Tennessee last night how it's done. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. One week after that botched execution in Tennessee robes, Texas was using the same method last night to execute somebody. And it worked.
00:00:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, and everybody was holding their breath because this was, and yes, it is the first execution since the botched execution of Krista Pike. It happened to fall exactly on the one week anniversary. And yes, it just so happens that Texas uses the exact same technique. single dose method of pentobarbital that Tennessee used.
00:00:50
Speaker 1: So chances, right. I mean, it could have been in Alabama. This one could have been in Florida where they use different methods, but we happen to have one using the exact same method. We had reason to be holding our breath last night.
00:01:01
Speaker 2: And if we were holding our breaths, I can't imagine what Jamal Howard must've been feeling because, knowing, and we know that he was briefed.
00:01:09
Speaker 3: On what happened to Krista Pike.
00:01:10
Speaker 2: We heard from his spiritual advisor who made the decision to explain to him what happened to Krista. And I don't know, we've talked about whether or not that was the right call, because can you imagine if he didn't have knowledge of that before he was told of it?
00:01:25
Speaker 3: Now that's in your head.
00:01:26
Speaker 2: Now you're thinking that the entire time, not am I going to, or am I going to die, but it's whether or not I will.
00:01:34
Speaker 3: And how much will it hurt and how long will it take?
00:01:37
Speaker 1: Yeah. And am I going to be mutilated in some way in this? Well, he was his spiritual advisor. We talked about this yesterday, was the one who said that Jamal Howard said to him, well, it doesn't work. They just shoot me in the head. And they talk about this man, Jamal Howard, having mental disabilities and his IQ was around 70. And his spiritual advisor even mentioned that he didn't really fully even understand necessarily What the process was and how it worked. He thought maybe they could just pull out a gun and shoot him in the head. This was all just a mess in a lot of ways from a horrific crime from 26 years ago. But last night, Rogues, we went through another ceremony, if you will, in this country. And this one worked, but it did come with, I guess, drama because of a delay.
00:02:22
Speaker 2: Yes, we were, as many people were, keeping our eye on this, and he was expected or he was scheduled to die by lethal injection at 6 p.m. Central Time there in Texas. But that was 7 p.m. our time, and by 8 p.m. our time still, I saw you just constantly hitting refresh. On the computer screen trying to see if the execution had gone forward or if it had even begun at that point.
00:02:48
Speaker 1: There was no information for a while. And then stuff started trickling out and it was limited information. There was a local Dallas affiliate that finally got hold of some information and the attorney at least had said that there was. Supreme Court was still looking into it. And Robes, you can't go forward and execute a guy that the Supreme Court might then later you find out they ruled to stop the execution. So they had to sit and wait. And there were several issues they had before the Supreme Court. And so that was the delay.
00:03:19
Speaker 2: Yes, the first one was the aforementioned intellectual disability. And so with an IQ of 70, and certainly from the beginning, even beforehand, he was known to have a limited mental capacity.
00:03:33
Speaker 3: He was mentally childlike, the way he's been described.
00:03:38
Speaker 1: And look, that was the argument before the whole Krista Pike stuff. They were trying to make this argument in court for a long time that this is someone you cannot execute. The Supreme Court has made rulings on executing somebody with mental disability, and they have even toyed around with an exact IQ score, Rose, but folks can't agree on what it is. Which test?
00:03:59
Speaker 3: What's the score?
00:04:00
Speaker 1: Should you take the average of all the scores? All that stuff. Would they say he had a 70? So anyway, they made that argument. That one didn't work last night. It hadn't worked previously. Rose, they had a new argument. they can make after what happened to Krista Pike.
00:04:12
Speaker 2: Not surprising, yes. Concerns over the method, concerns over lethal injection. His attorneys were asking even just for a delay, a month-long delay for the state of Texas to be transparent about the drugs or the drug because it's just one, yes, the pentobarbital, but where it came from, what its expiration date was. All of those things, they wanted those questions answered or at least examined before they went through with the execution.
00:04:40
Speaker 1: And the governor could have done that. The law there doesn't allow him to just say, ah, I'm going to commute this guy's sentence. But it does allow him to give a 30-day reprieve. Governor Abbott did not.
00:04:50
Speaker 3: No, he did not. And so we did learn eventually, I.
00:04:55
Speaker 2: Guess about an hour delay or so, when the Supreme Court finally decided that his appeals were denied.
00:05:01
Speaker 3: And that was his last shot.
00:05:02
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
00:05:03
Speaker 3: Of avoiding execution or at least delaying execution.
00:05:06
Speaker 1: And they moved forward in robes. It cleared the way and they moved forward. It was as if they were standing by with a needle in hand almost waiting for word to move forward. And they sure did. Now, as always, there were witnesses in the room. There were family members of his in the room as well. In Rome, we get different reports. It's always fascinating to hear what's happening in that gallery. But these were the reports we were getting last night from folks who were witnessing this. said he did take a few breaths and gasped when they first administered the lethal injection. At some point, they started hearing snoring sounds that, as they continued, those kept getting quieter and quieter. In Rome, they said only 30 seconds, no more movement from him.
00:05:49
Speaker 2: And that, look, that is how it should happen. That is how we would hope it would happen today. And obviously that is the opposite of what happened in the Krista Pike scenario.
00:06:00
Speaker 3: So what did Texas do differently?
00:06:03
Speaker 1: Rose, who put the needle in his arm? That person should be hired.
00:06:07
Speaker 3: 30 seconds.
00:06:08
Speaker 1: Travel all over the country. If you got somebody who knows how to do this. And Rose, they said it was 16 or 19 minutes that he was declared dead. So from the start of the process to the end was 15 minutes or so. He's declared dead. I guess that is, you know what, that is what Americans can stomach. We executed somebody, how'd it go? We put a needle in his arm, he was dead in 15 minutes.
00:06:29
Speaker 2: I mean, this sounds awful, but if you've got a pet in distress and you have to take it to the vet to put it out of its misery, so to speak, yes, oftentimes you'll hold your pet and they will administer. I don't know if it's the same type of chemical, but that's what you want. You want to see someone peacefully... And if even if, yes, they're accused of a violent crime, we don't want to cause pain to anyone. I can't imagine that the government would want to ever sanction that. So to think that this actually was conducted in the way, I guess, the best way possible, the humanist way possible.
00:07:19
Speaker 1: What can you say? There are no reports of his discomfort or his yelling out or saying anything else. They put a needle in his arm, and in 30 seconds, he never moved again. That's remarkable. So we were working on the time here. We worked backwards then. He was declared dead at 8.03. So if you go back, so around 7.45, I guess, so it was about an hour and 45-minute delay. and getting this thing going.
00:07:43
Speaker 2: Waiting on the Supreme Court, that had to be, that was the excruciating part, I imagine, for him, for his family members, for anyone there who loved Jamal Howard, and his sister was in there. And this nugget from the death chamber.
00:08:01
Speaker 3: Was chilling. And it's just a reminder of.
00:08:03
Speaker 2: The cost and the price that people pay and the tragedy and how many people suffered because of the crime that was committed, but including his own family members.
00:08:12
Speaker 3: His sister had to be escorted out. She said, get me out of here.
00:08:16
Speaker 2: I don't think that I, I guess if my brother or if a family member asked me to be there, but I would never choose to be there.
00:08:26
Speaker 3: That would be too difficult to witness.
00:08:28
Speaker 1: I don't know, babe. As a family member, he doesn't have anybody else that cares about him, loves him. The last moment on earth that you want him to know that somebody gave a damn about him, it's that thing, baby. It's for that family member. And even though as difficult as it sounds, and I hear what you're saying, it's for that. I mean, your last moment.
00:08:46
Speaker 3: You can never unsee that.
00:08:48
Speaker 1: Oof. But how horrible would be to think you could have been there and you didn't. And then in the last moments, they thought, nobody's here for me and nobody cares. All this is just horrific stuff, baby. No matter if he did, yeah, he went to sleep peacefully. Still awful.
00:09:02
Speaker 3: It's still awful.
00:09:03
Speaker 2: And his final words, I thought, were, look, we don't always get final words. And I would say the majority of the time, we do not get an apology or even an admission.
00:09:13
Speaker 3: A lot of times.
00:09:15
Speaker 2: Death row inmates will go to their death swearing their innocence.
00:09:19
Speaker 3: And this was different.
00:09:21
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, we do hear that sometimes. I forgot about that. Sometimes they do say, got the wrong guy. You're messing up. That's pretty horrific. Hell, even Krista Pike last week had final words that didn't really sit well with a lot of folks and certainly couldn't have sat well with Colleen Slimmer, her victim's mom.
00:09:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to leave my life the way I lived most of it, with love. That's tough when you've brutalized someone. But we got a very different final moment from Jamal Howard. And I think this is important to remember. I do think the power of an apology is real. It doesn't bring back the victim. It doesn't bring back Vicki Swarthout.
00:09:58
Speaker 3: But certainly.
00:09:59
Speaker 2: I would imagine it provides some sort of peace to the people who loved her, and they certainly wanted to see this execution.
00:10:06
Speaker 3: Take place. Just a reminder. She was a convenience store clerk. This was back.
00:10:10
Speaker 2: In 2000 and Jamal Howard went in there and basically just, I think he tried to shoot her.
00:10:18
Speaker 3: The gun didn't go off.
00:10:19
Speaker 2: She screamed and then he got the gun to work and shot her in the chest. and he was able to get $ 114, reached over her body to grab cigarettes, and according to reports, he asked her as she lay there dying, is there any more money anywhere?
00:10:37
Speaker 3: And just, it's awful and brutal.
00:10:39
Speaker 2: They found him hiding in a closet in an abandoned home, I believe, pretty shortly afterwards. He was all caught on surveillance camera committing this crime, so there was no question about his guilt or innocence.
00:10:52
Speaker 3: But yes, he's been on death row longer than he had been alive.
00:10:55
Speaker 2: He was 20 years old at the time, spent 26 years on death row, and at the age of 46, he had his final words to offer to the family of Vicky Swartout.
00:11:05
Speaker 1: That dude's younger than I am. Man, that's a hell of a life, man, to spend the majority of a 46-year life behind bars. He was on death row longer than he was alive. A free man in this world.
00:11:22
Speaker 3: That's right.
00:11:22
Speaker 1: That is incredible. But he did apologize to the family here, Robes. This was, look, this was, this is, Robes, there's a, I don't know, if a sympathy or what you're supposed to feel after a monstrous act, after a murder. Robes, this is just, these words hit different.
00:11:45
Speaker 3: They do.
00:11:46
Speaker 1: They do.
00:11:47
Speaker 2: He said, I apologize to the Swartout family. And I wish you had closure and peace. I wish that you accept my apology. And I wish for your forgiveness. I'm sorry for what happened. I thank y'all. Hey, enjoy life and peace to y'all. Warden, that's it.
00:12:08
Speaker 3: I'm ready.
00:12:08
Speaker 1: That sucks. Well, that's just, that's what we do. It's what we do in this country. But it went forward and we have now executed the, what is this, 30th? 30th. 30th person in the United States this year. We are in October, and we are not done. Stay here. There are more executions upcoming, including three that are going to happen on the same day.
00:12:46
Speaker 2: Welcome back, everyone, to Amy and TJ. Texas carried out its seventh execution of the year, but more notably, this was the first execution in this country since the botched execution of Krista Pike. It landed on the exact one-week anniversary, and it happened using the exact same single dose of pentobarbital. This was a much different outcome than what we saw in Tennessee.
00:13:12
Speaker 1: Looking at this now, after what they did a.
00:13:14
Speaker 3: Week ago, They may say, well, he had better veins than Krista Pike.
00:13:17
Speaker 1: He had better veins. Okay.
00:13:20
Speaker 3: I don't know.
00:13:20
Speaker 2: Just trying to guess what people might say to try to cover up what happened. Not cover up, but explain what happened.
00:13:26
Speaker 1: No issues. Without a hitch last night. 15 minutes.
00:13:29
Speaker 3: 15 minutes.
00:13:31
Speaker 2: And seemingly, when the lethal dose of penobarbital went into his bloodstream, in about 30 seconds, he stopped breathing.
00:13:39
Speaker 3: That's how it should happen.
00:13:40
Speaker 1: 30 seconds. 30 seconds. Oh, my God.
00:13:43
Speaker 2: But we've got plenty of executions coming up to Alone this month, and they're both in Florida.
00:13:49
Speaker 1: Bro, this is Florida, Florida, Florida, Florida. So, yeah, we've got James Robertson coming up. These are actually going to be a week apart. I got that date wrong, but they are a week apart. So in about a week, we've got James Robertson, and then after that, it's going to be William Reeves Jr. Now, this is of note there in Florida, Robes, because they are ticking up to their record. So they got two this month and they got three more scheduled for the year in total. This would put them, the Robes, up to 19, which was their record from last year. So they got three on the books left this year would put them to 19. But we know DeSantis is not scared to sign as many as they put across his tables.
00:14:29
Speaker 2: We've seen Governor DeSantis just keep adding and adding and adding more scheduled executions.
00:14:35
Speaker 3: So I, what is this?
00:14:37
Speaker 2: It's October 8th right now. I can only imagine he's going to be signing some more death warrants.
00:14:42
Speaker 1: When we started the year, we looked at the schedule. They might have only had one schedule.
00:14:47
Speaker 3: Yes, these come up.
00:14:48
Speaker 2: And again, I want to get some more insight into how and why they determined who is up for execution dates, but I do know he has made a point to try and go and get some of the longest serving death row inmates.
00:15:03
Speaker 3: So Florida has executed folks who have been on.
00:15:06
Speaker 2: For, yes, literally the last string have all been in their seventies, late seventies. There was even an 80 year old. So he is absolutely folks who have been on death row for 40 years, one, even 50 years. So look, I understand this is, there's a point in which A victim's family has been waiting far, far too long for closure. And so he is trying to give closure to those families.
00:15:29
Speaker 1: And I think we would feel differently. Robes, a lot of these are, they literally are propping old men up on gurneys. Robes, these guys are in bad shape. A lot of them. And I do think what you were saying, if you support the death penalty, you should be able to watch it. I think, Robes, if there was video of what we're doing to Old men. Don't you remember? They hadn't paid for their crimes, but they should have paid for them maybe 30 years ago when they were in better health. We are lifting up nursing home patients and plopping them down. They can't walk into the damn death chamber. I didn't check the ages on these two, actually, the next two coming up in Florida. I'll try to take a quick look as we continue on here.
00:16:16
Speaker 2: Yes, but the big, you just kind of teased this ahead of time, but yes, on November 5th, so yes, less than a month from now, we're going to have another day where there are three executions in one day, not in the same state. But we've got one in Florida, one in Indiana, and one in Alabama. And they're all taking place again on November 5th.
00:16:40
Speaker 1: It's a hell of a day. We had another... Was there another day this year that we had.
00:16:46
Speaker 3: Yes.
00:16:47
Speaker 1: We had two in the same state. Was that.
00:16:48
Speaker 3: That was Florida.
00:16:49
Speaker 1: Two in the same state.
00:16:50
Speaker 3: They did it one in the morning, one in the afternoon.
00:16:52
Speaker 1: And then there was another day where there were three, I believe.
00:16:55
Speaker 3: Three in three different states. So, yes.
00:16:58
Speaker 1: This just happens to fall like this, Robes. But those are... that's going to be a hell of a day in this country.
00:17:06
Speaker 2: I mean, Robes, especially given, I think, especially given what happened with Krista Pike, I think now people are waiting to hear what went wrong or it just, it's such an awful feeling to think that we're extending people's pain. People are twisting in the wind. We don't know how to properly and peacefully kill someone. So, Yes, once we've seen that happen and the trauma that takes place when you just actually listen to the details and read the details, to think that that could happen to another human being regardless of what crime they committed, it creates a different level of anticipation when you hear about these executions.
00:17:47
Speaker 1: We need to look into Indiana and Alabama. I can't remember what. Alabama can't use the gas anymore, so they stopped that. So what method are they going to use on November 5th? Indiana, I'm not sure. They don't have a lot there either. But the two, you just mentioned in Florida, robes, those two guys, one of them 63 and.
00:18:03
Speaker 3: The other one is 77.
00:18:05
Speaker 1: William Reeves Jr. That they're going to execute 77. My word. But folks, we keep an eye on these. They are important robes. We need to know what's happening, why it's happening, and if we want it to keep happening in this country. But they are, these aren't, we talk about the statistics and the numbers a lot, but there are, Moms and daughters and sons and sisters, and yes, even the criminals themselves. There are human beings behind all these stories, Robes, that you have to get beyond the numbers to see. And your heart can hurt for all of them, frankly.
00:18:43
Speaker 3: Yes, there's tragedy all around.
00:18:47
Speaker 2: But something that I think our country is trying to figure out, and I don't know which direction we're headed in. It just depends on the state you live in, perhaps. And maybe your level of tolerance.
00:19:00
Speaker 1: Your influence. Tennessee is talking about getting rid of the death penalty. Texas is like, no problems here.
00:19:07
Speaker 3: Florida, no problems here.
00:19:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, we put a needle in his arm. He was dead in 15 minutes. We've got no issues here. So, right. Maybe moods around the country will be. unique to each.
00:19:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've certainly seen that before, but we will continue to keep our eye on it all. We always appreciate you listening to us, everyone. I'm Amy Robach alongside TJ Holmes.
00:19:27
Speaker 3: We'll talk soon.