Teacher Shot By 6-Year-Old Student Testifies: “He Seemed To Be Off and in a Violent Mood”

00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hey, there are folks. It is Wednesday, May twentieth, and a historic trial is taking place a school administrator, the first known case of a school principle being held criminally responsible for a school shooting that a student did at her school. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. The case itself was obviously Robes stunning because this had to do with a six year old. But now the assistant principle is in court facing criminal charges. The trial is underway is historic and before we get into the details, it was kind of annoying. And what I mean by that we watch a lot of trials. Yeah, it was the interruptions and the starting and the stopping. It seemed like nobody knew what they were doing. And I'm not sure what they were doing.

00:00:49
Speaker 2: I can't even imagine being a juror on this trial because it was hard to follow the state. The prosecution started out with a bang. They brought their first witness to the stand, and yes it was the very teacher who was shot in the chest by that six year old. But as they started to do some direct questioning to her, the defense attorney for doctor Ebony Parker, the assistant principle, just kept constantly objecting, objecting, interrupting, objecting, and just seemed befuddled in general.

00:01:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, I couldn't tell if it was a brilliant legal strategy or he was incompetent. And that's because I'm not a lawyer. But as far as I thought, for a while, he was just trying to throw the other guy off, like making sure he couldn't even get into a flow of questions or even tell a story. It was something like I'd never seen. And the question or the objection was always the same. It had to do with hearsay, hearsay, hearsay, hearsay, you can't do that, that's hearsay. And then when he got up to cross example. We'll get it into that in a second. Anyway, I just wanted to say we had a tough time at the beginning of this, like this, this whole trial going to go this way.

00:01:57
Speaker 3: We kept looking at each other going this can't continue.

00:02:01
Speaker 1: Did it?

00:02:03
Speaker 3: It did? It did?

00:02:04
Speaker 2: In fact, the opening statements were pretty quick as far as opening statements go.

00:02:08
Speaker 1: We started this thing is flying by right.

00:02:11
Speaker 2: We have seen opening statements take almost the entire day, certainly the entire morning for the prosecution and for the defense to make their opening statements to the jury. But I thought this was effective. The prosecution said this about doctor Parker. She didn't even get up from her desk, she didn't leave her office.

00:02:30
Speaker 3: Warning after warning after warning, she did nothing.

00:02:35
Speaker 1: That all sounds awful, That all sounds terrible, But the defense was able to put on a bit of its case. You see the direction they're going, and they're trying to spread the blame here. We'll get into that, but let's start with I think people remember at least what we're talking about now. Newport News twenty twenty three, January sixth A six year old brings a gun to school and shoots his teacher, shoots her in the hand, shoots her in the chest, but she survives. She put her hand up to try to block it. But again this was wild headline making, because what in God's name a six year old is doing with a weapon. So she sued. Now the teacher is being assistant principle, being held criminally responsible, but she has one already. The teacher has a ten million dollars settlement in that civil lawsuit, and that brings us to now Robes the first such case that we've seen in assistant principle at administrator being held responsible. They said this was going to be a quick trial, supposed to end up in by the end of the week. The judge wants to keep on track. And from what we've seen so far, you said the opening statements, we're talking what was it ten minutes?

00:03:41
Speaker 3: Maybe by the differ, I couldn't believe how quick it was.

00:03:44
Speaker 1: And he wasn't talking that fast.

00:03:45
Speaker 3: No, we looked at each other. That's it.

00:03:46
Speaker 2: He's done, okay, and so yes, First up was Abby's Warner, the teacher shot by the six year old student, and I thought it was interesting just her talking about this student two days prior.

00:03:56
Speaker 3: Hadn't heard this before.

00:03:58
Speaker 2: He actually was so angry at her while she was doing something else, he went up to her phone and slammed it and threw it on the floor, literally broke his teacher's phone. And she wasn't sure with what any disciplinary action took place, if any at all.

00:04:12
Speaker 3: But he stayed home the next day.

00:04:14
Speaker 2: But he comes back on that Friday, and this is the day that he ended up bringing a gun with him and shooting her. And it was just interesting to hear her describe his temperament and why she was so concerned what she told Parker, what she told other teachers about her student.

00:04:33
Speaker 1: This is and they're describing. Look, we've seen troubled kids. We've seen kids who behave badly. We've seen kids who throw fits. We see kids who are spoiled, kids do all kinds of stuff. You call them little shits. This is not anything you would imagine a six year old is capable of the stuff they describe even before the shooting. But that violent incident ropes with the phone and how he talks to the teachers, threats the teachers, it's taken swings at teachers. This is a different type of child.

00:05:04
Speaker 2: Uh yes, And knowing that that was his disposition already, she said even still that day, the day of the shooting, she described it as this, he seemed off and in a violent mood. It's hard to imagine a six year old being in a violent mood, but that is exactly how she described that. He was being defiant, saying no back to my directions. And then we start hearing. And the reason why it got so complicated with the hearsay is because she was trying the teacher. You could tell was really frustrated, trying to explain why and what she said to doctor Parker and to other teachers. It was all because she was being told by other students, by other teachers who overheard other students saying that this young boy had a loaded gun and showed them this gun. How do you get that testimony in if it is in fact hearsay.

00:05:55
Speaker 1: But she was. The prosecutor tried carefully to handle all this, but it got to the point he was interrupted so much. I mean, he won on some of them, and he lost on something. So the judge was saying overruled to some of would sustained to the others, but robes. It got going to the point that you felt like the witness was scared to answer. She was questions like she was the one, and the prosecutor had to stop for a second and say, hey, let us let the lawyers worry about it. You just answer because he's trying to get testimony to convict the woman and his main witness is scared even speakinning.

00:06:35
Speaker 2: Right, and that literally happened. She didn't know how to explain how she knew what she knew without trying to explain what she overheard or what was told to her. So that made it very frustrating, but ultimately she was able to or the prosecute was able to basically tell the jury through Zwerner that she told Parker and other teachers that the boys seemed suspicious at least on three different occasions that day. And I do think the defense did a good job in cross examination by saying, did you call police? The defense yes, sorry. The defense during cross examination, my apologies.

00:07:13
Speaker 3: Was able to getz.

00:07:15
Speaker 2: Werner to admit that she could have, but she didn't. In hindsight, she said, yes, I could have, but she didn't call police. She didn't ask anyone else to call police. She didn't separate the six year old from other students. If she thought he was a threat, why didn't he Why didn't she isolate him? So he did at least he was able to show that she had to bear some responsibility for what happened that.

00:07:38
Speaker 1: So if that's the case, if she does bear some does that mean that the assistant principle is not guilty. I don't know the policy now, this is something I certainly don't. They're getting into it a little bit. What the policy is, what it dictates who's supposed to report what and whose responsibility it is to take action if you're the first line of defense. I mean, you got her to admit on the stand who's supposed to be protecting those kids in that classroom, she admitted me. So I don't know. I assume this all came up in the civil trial as well, and she still won. But I thought at least that was effectively.

00:08:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's a higher threshold obviously for a criminal case, so it'll be interesting how effective that was or is for the jury. Now. I did think there was an interesting moment when another teacher took the stand later in the day and he tried the same tactic with her, because she testified that another student had told her that the six year old had a gun with bullets, and she said that when the shooting happened, that student said to her, I told you, I tried to keep you safe. And under cross examination, the defense said, did you call police? And her answer was no, I called the office when she heard from the student that the six year old had a gun. That was an effective moment. She threw it right back in the defense attorney's face.

00:08:58
Speaker 1: Effectively, whose response ability is that? And this was what was her position.

00:09:02
Speaker 3: Again, she was another teacher.

00:09:04
Speaker 1: Okay, I reported it to the authority. The authority here at least is the principal.

00:09:11
Speaker 3: Now to that.

00:09:12
Speaker 1: Respect, most every teacher run his country knows they do not have the power. Can't suspend a kid.

00:09:18
Speaker 3: I had, No, you report him to the office, right from them to the office. So did you call police? No? I called the office.

00:09:25
Speaker 2: I thought, ooh, that was a very very effective response.

00:09:29
Speaker 1: I mean, it's affective. That's the jury is certainly gonna remember that. But wrong. I do wonder how much responsibility lies where and who's who has the authority to act. I guess they all do. If some what responsibility is that some other teachers? I heard a kid has a gun? Do I go look in his bag? If I do, I'll get in trouble. Let me let the administrators handle this. H Yes, that sounds reasonable.

00:09:51
Speaker 2: And they did have other teachers up there describing basically the chain of command what you do when you have a problem, or you suspect something it happened, or something could go wrong, you are supposed to report it to your next administrator. And that's exactly what it seems happened. And that administrator that day was doctor Ebany Parker. When we come back, we're going to tell you about the body cam footage that was introduced in court yesterday. It is chilling because this tragedy, a teacher with a bullet still lodged in her chest, by the way that she will die with it's in such a dangerous position, could have been far worse. And who is expected to take the stand today? Welcome back everyone to this episode of Amy and TJ. We are talking about a trial taking place in Newport News, Virginia, the first of its kind, a school administrator being held criminally responsible for a school shooting. A six year old first grader shot his teacher in January of twenty twenty three. Thankfully that teacher survived. She actually was the first person up on the witness stand yesterday testifying as to what happened that day. But we learned in court that this could have been significantly worse. This was terrifying to hear. We had a forensic officer who was on the scene that day right after the six year old shot his teacher, and you can see through the bodycam video. First of all, you can see another teacher who stepped in bear hugging the child, basically trying to keep the child in place after the shooting, asking him if it was okay he's spewing profanities at her, and the jurors saw this. In fact, this was what he said. I stole that from my mom. If you want a piece of me, come here. He said that to the police officer as this officer was approaching the little boy with his body cam.

00:11:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, this kidding't right? Or they using the initial JT JT court. So they are doing this, which is like you know, they have been doing it on a delay the stream at least, and they are trying to protect the identities here. But where is this kid? I wonder, and you do wonder what happened? Do you just have bad eggs sometime that go this kind of wrong? Or what has he been exposed to some of the things they say, that's that's not regular language. Year old, it's just not.

00:12:23
Speaker 3: That's hard to imagine. But here's the more chilling part.

00:12:26
Speaker 2: So the forensic specialist who he was saying this, who said, when they came up on the scene, they found a I don't know guns that well, but I guess a Taurus nine millimeter pistol. It was lying there on the floor with one shell casing under the student's desk.

00:12:41
Speaker 3: Right. But here's the deal, the gun.

00:12:44
Speaker 2: I didn't hear this before the gun had jammed, and the cartridge was stuck in the slide with six more bullets that were loaded if that gun hadn't jamped. First of all, I think it's unbelievable that a six year old knows how to operate a gun well enough to be able to pull the trigger. But thank god, the gun jammed.

00:13:05
Speaker 1: Have we I haven't seen or heard anywhere the height and weight of this kid. I know that sounds a little crazy because I've owned and handled guns before, and think about a nine millimeter pistol. The things you have to do ro You would struggle a little bit to cock it appropriately, to jam that cartridge in, to put one in the chamber, to undo the safety, to actually pull the trigger even takes a bit of forced and you have to know.

00:13:36
Speaker 3: How to do that.

00:13:37
Speaker 1: I can't imagine he took it to school and there was already one in the chamber. I can't imagine did he. I don't know how this particular I am yes, fascinating. That's why I ask about his size, not just in fighting other folks off. But his physical strength and ability to pull off what he did.

00:13:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I just know that a teacher was able to bear hug him and hold him and restrain him until police got there.

00:14:02
Speaker 3: So he's a little guy. He's six years old.

00:14:05
Speaker 2: I don't understand how much bigger he could have been, certainly, but it is unbelievable to imagine a six year old able to do that. And so today we are going to be hearing from some parents of students who were in that classroom the day's warner was shot. They're going to talk about just their fear and trepidition, trepidation, what their children said to them. And certainly this is a part of the criminal trial that these other children in this classroom were at risk obviously with this six year old with a loaded gun. And look, we also learned a few more details. I thought this was interesting. One of the teachers said she was able to finally convince doctor Parker to allow her to search this child's handbag after recess because there was so much chatter. But she said she didn't even verbally say yes. She barely gave a head nod. So when she went to go search the backpack. The gun was already gone, and then we heards Werner describe this young man. The six year old had changed into a big, oversized jacket and never took his hands out of his pockets, and she said she told several teachers. Obviously there was a concern something was in those pockets. So the teacher goes back to the assistant principle and says, hey, can we check the jacket?

00:15:17
Speaker 1: She said, no, bro, Still, the thing you just describe here is a kid who was smart enough, calculated enough to pull that off. That's premeditation almost. That's like I got a plan to not get caught. That's a criminal mind at six years old. The thing he couldn't avoid as a kid, I guess, is to tell other kids that he had it and he was cool. Yeah, but this is as disturbing of a kid I've ever heard it.

00:15:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, I cannot imagine. I don't know what they do with a six year old like that. And by the way, his mother is behind bars. She had some other issues, but she also was charged as a part of this incident as well, so she's I think, has a four year prison. So the child we've just been told is in protective care and obviously is too young to be charged in this case. So we will see as we continue to follow the Really, I mean, this is just a trial like I've never seen before, and certainly to have the assistant principle be held accountable will this could send ripple effects across this country. With unfortunately the amount of school shootings we have seen and unfortunately will likely to still see. This puts the onus on school administration, which we have not seen yet. We've seen parents, we've seen police, and now we'll see whether or not a jury believes an assistant principle should be held criminally responsible for the shooting of her teacher.

00:16:43
Speaker 1: I just you juxtapose it now with that video, right, the video we've all seen of that principle that got shot taking down a gunman at the school. Very different where you think about your first thought is to protect, and that guy I reacted and protect at the risk of his own life. And this teacher, who I'm this principle, I don't know what was on her mind and why and is she any word?

00:17:06
Speaker 3: Is she going to take the stand.

00:17:08
Speaker 2: She didn't take the stand in a civil trial, but that didn't work so well for her. So we don't know if she plans to take the stand in her own defense. But you know, if you've already lost one trial, you might consider a different tactic in your criminal trial.

00:17:22
Speaker 3: Like she had money at stake.

00:17:24
Speaker 2: Or at least there's an insurance company who's going to be paying for that, but now her freedom is at stake. Five years for each count. She's facing eight counts. If she is convicted of one, it's likely she would be convicted of them all, so she could be facing up to forty years behind bars. She is fighting for her life.

00:17:43
Speaker 1: Let's see. But I guess if she's acquitted, I remember, that's just a weird deal with the insurance. The insurance won't pay if she gets convicted. That's the question, at least with the legal question that's out there. The insurance companies that will go to pay the ten million to the teacher from the civil suit. If the principle is responsible because of criminal behavior, they can say, hey, we don't, we're not on the hook for it. She is. But then Romes, if she's acquitted, that means she's not held criminally responsible for what happened. But you might get to ten million.

00:18:20
Speaker 3: What do you do. Wow, there is money, what do you do? And freedom at stake?

00:18:23
Speaker 2: So yes, a lot of different and very invested parties here to see what happens.

00:18:29
Speaker 3: But we will continue to follow.

00:18:31
Speaker 2: Trial resumes today, expected to last through the rest of the week.

00:18:34
Speaker 3: We will keep you updated.

00:18:36
Speaker 2: On this one, but in the meantime, everyone, thank you so much for listening to us. I'm Amy Roebuck alongside TJ. Holmes.

00:18:41
Speaker 3: We'll talk to you soon.