Aug. 31, 2026
Stanford's got a boyfriend! with Sean Palmer... (S5 E6 "Critical Condition")
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RSS Feed Stanford Blatch found love with Marcus and actor Sean Palmer portrayed him perfectly.
Sean talks about chatting and dancing with Baryshnikov…casual!
Plus, Sean reveals a storyline that was cut from the Sex and the City movie that frankly has us shook to our core.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
00:00:01
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? Hi, everybody.
00:00:07
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Are You a Charlotte? Today, a super special guest is zooming in from Ireland.
00:00:14
Speaker 1: It is Sean Palmer, who played.
00:00:17
Speaker 2: Marcus, who was Stanford's boyfriend. He is so amazing and has so many great memories and insights. And he and I are going to rewatch Critical Condition, which which is episode 506 aired August 25th, 2002.
00:00:35
Speaker 1: And hi, hi, Sean. You look exactly the same. How is it possible?
00:00:40
Speaker 2: You do. I don't, I don't. We both have glasses though.
00:00:44
Speaker 3: I love it.
00:00:45
Speaker 2: I love it so much.
00:00:46
Speaker 1: Wait, this is London. You're in London now.
00:00:48
Speaker 3: No, I'm in Dublin.
00:00:49
Speaker 1: What are you doing in Dublin?
00:00:51
Speaker 3: So my husband got a job here about eight years ago and we both had been sort of, he's from London, well from Scotland, but from London and, And I'd been traveling back and forth between New York and London. And so we both moved upstate New York for a little while. And then he got this job offer. And we're like, shall we? Should we? Amazing. We did. And we really liked it here. Moved like right before COVID. And it was just like a... It was such a graceful place to do that. Oh, nice. Do you know what I mean? Because obviously there was so much stuff going on all over the world. So it was really, I was like, wow, this place is different in that way. And it was obviously a big adjustment from New York and London, but it's mellowed me in the best way. It's been really, really good.
00:01:34
Speaker 1: And are you teaching meditation?
00:01:36
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:01:37
Speaker 2: Amazing. Wow. How did that start?
00:01:41
Speaker 3: Well, I started meditating in like, I think eight, seven or eight years ago. And I went to London to see a friend who was like the lead, like a designer for like Anya Hindmarch.
00:01:54
Speaker 2: Oh, wow.
00:01:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure.
00:01:55
Speaker 1: I own many of those.
00:01:57
Speaker 3: Yeah. So they got into like the fashion show scene and his work schedule was crazy. And he was like going off to cry in the bathroom like all the time because the pressure was getting so much. He loved the job, obviously, but he was like so stressed out. And I didn't see him for a while. And then I went back and saw him. It was a complete 180. I was like, who is this person? He's like in a great space. He's really like stable. And he said that he'd learned meditation. So I went straight out and took his advice and learned. Wow. It's been a game changer for me.
00:02:28
Speaker 2: That's wonderful. What style? What type?
00:02:31
Speaker 3: It's Vedic meditation. So if you do bring it up, it's just it's, it's, it's like TM, but we can't say it's TM for the sake, because it's all the people that sort of broke away from TM and there was a lawsuit and all that kind of stuff. So it's TM, essentially it's mantra based meditation. You know, 20 minutes twice a day, that whole thing.
00:02:47
Speaker 1: I've done it. I've done it. I've heard about it.
00:02:49
Speaker 2: Yes, I've definitely done it. I've definitely done it.
00:02:52
Speaker 1: Those are things I miss.
00:02:53
Speaker 2: And, and one day I would love to recommit, you know, to those types of practices.
00:02:58
Speaker 1: Cause I do think they're, they're really powerful and interesting.
00:03:01
Speaker 3: I think like you're a mother. So motherhood is also very, it's a practice like a Durga practice. You know, you have to destroy yesterday and come straight into today with the full.
00:03:10
Speaker 2: It's so true. And it takes a lot of work.
00:03:12
Speaker 3: They have a real life application.
00:03:14
Speaker 1: That's a good point.
00:03:15
Speaker 3: Yeah. Other rituals that happen in real life.
00:03:17
Speaker 2: It's so true. It's so true. And also they would be helpful with those other rituals. Do you know what I'm saying?
00:03:22
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, for sure. I'm not saying don't do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:03:24
Speaker 2: I mean, when the kids go back to school, I'm at the end of the summer. My kids are not in school yet. Everyone else's are. And I'm just like counting the days. Okay.
00:03:31
Speaker 1: Mostly, I have so many things to ask you about. So, so many.
00:03:35
Speaker 2: Because in my mind, we're getting to the part of the show where I don't have really... I have bits and pieces of memories, but like it got all kind of overwhelming at a certain point, which is right around the part where you come, which is season five. So please take me back and tell me your experience. How did you come to be on our show?
00:03:55
Speaker 3: Well, I came to be on the show strangely because one of Michael's best friends was my next door neighbor. And she's been on the show.
00:04:03
Speaker 2: Who?
00:04:03
Speaker 3: Who? Her name is Nancy Shane. She was in And Just Like That as two different characters. One is a funeral director. Yes.
00:04:10
Speaker 1: Oh, my gosh.
00:04:12
Speaker 2: That's crazy.
00:04:13
Speaker 3: So in 1993, I moved to a building in which she lived on the sixth floor and I lived on the third floor. And I kept moving up floors until I was literally like right across the hall from her. And there was. Basically, we lived for years like we had no front door. And so Nancy would always let me be her plus one to go to your premieres.
00:04:30
Speaker 2: Amazing. So we kind of knew you in that way.
00:04:34
Speaker 3: So I was around the whole thing, whatever. And I would go to like Michael's Christmas parties and like, you know, stuff like that in the village. It was Elizabeth Street, I think.
00:04:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:04:44
Speaker 3: So yeah, so I would go to those and I got familiar with everybody. And the way I got on the show, I am told, this came to me through Michael and others, is that one year I was at his Christmas party and I was a very shy person. Like even though I'd done Broadway and dancing and stuff, if it was not in the script, I didn't want to do it. So real life was very stressful. So I was at Michael's party and of course it's famous people at the time. It's like, you know, It's like Sandra Bernhardt and like Rosie, like all the people, right? I just named two lesbians, but it's not all lesbians.
00:05:19
Speaker 2: That's cool.
00:05:20
Speaker 3: And so I'm at the party apparently and I was talking to one person and then like all of a sudden it was just like a flock of men around me. And Michael just thought I was the strangest person because I didn't really come up with anything like prescient to say so much. And so he was like, how are you like getting all these people around you and whatever? And it was just a very strange thing. And he said, and I just thought that was so funny. You would say this awkward thing and they'd all laugh. And, you know, so he sort of brought me on to come and say one strange line in a scene like that, you know, the very first scene I was in where I'm like, it's not very modern or something. Yes.
00:05:52
Speaker 2: About Carrie's dress for the, yes, that was excellent.
00:05:56
Speaker 3: Yes. Go ahead. So it's sort of that, you know, the vibe was like this person who's, you know, maybe on the spectrum. Yeah.
00:06:03
Speaker 2: I love it.
00:06:03
Speaker 3: And comes on and says something strange. But anyway, that's how I got associated.
00:06:07
Speaker 2: And when you came, did you know that you would be Stanford's boyfriend?
00:06:13
Speaker 3: So I think I sort of remember Michael trying to get me to come in and audition for... I think there was a Berka bag one. And like there was maybe a shop keeps... Like there kept being opportunities. And then he was like, it's not right. And then he said, I'm going to write something specifically for you. So he wrote... Marcus based on me. Wow. And which was very flattering because he was like, a daunt is sort of like a nod to Adonis. And, you know, they must think I'm cute.
00:06:40
Speaker 2: You were way. I mean, you still are. But I mean, very cute. Very cute.
00:06:45
Speaker 3: You know, it was a huge compliment, but I did have to go in and audition to play this.
00:06:48
Speaker 2: No way.
00:06:48
Speaker 3: I had to go in and audition to get, to see if I was funny enough to play the character.
00:06:53
Speaker 2: Oh my good Lord. Was it scary?
00:06:55
Speaker 3: That, that, oh my gosh, it was terrifying, you know? And also, as you said, you, you sort of indicated that like at that point, it was such a big thing. There was so much momentum behind the show at the time. You guys were so famous. It was everywhere. You were in every magazine or everyone wanted to look like you or every, you know, and I can't imagine what it was like to be like in that situation. So to go into it, all of a sudden I felt like, well, you'll remember this. Like the Brady Bunch was such a big thing. And then like all of a sudden you're in the Brady Bunch and they're talking to you. And I was like, you know, now I'm in the big show and they're expecting me to respond to them. And that first day of like being on set with just, it was Sarah. Kim and Willie and myself in a very small set.
00:07:37
Speaker 2: The fitting room. The fitting room.
00:07:38
Speaker 3: The fitting room. Yeah. And they had already blocked out everything. And I'd never been on television before. So I was like, I don't know what happens. And I didn't know the words to listen for. Like, you know, obviously cut and things like that. Right. But nobody gives you a primer. Right. And you're walking over the dolly thing. Oh, my gosh. It was crazy. Wow. And also, I don't know if you remember this, but season five was crazy. the season that got broken.
00:08:03
Speaker 2: Yes. The pregnancy season.
00:08:05
Speaker 3: Yes. The pregnancy.
00:08:07
Speaker 2: How about Willie?
00:08:07
Speaker 1: Did you know Willie before? Had you met Willie at Michael's?
00:08:10
Speaker 3: No. And this is another great story, which is that Willie came, you were the first person I met because your costume fitting was either next after mine or just before mine. So you were the very first person I met. And then Willie came in or stayed especially because he almost was like, I got a prop. Like, I got a story. And so he stayed and he like wanted to talk to Pat about what costumes I was going to wear and how they would match with the like the bow tang. And he like, he was there. I mean, I'll probably cry, but like he was so supportive and so kind. And it was a big deal, you know, for me to get on the show, like the Broadway dancer and all that kind of stuff. And he just was very kind in terms of me saying that, like, I didn't know anything. Willie gave me that little bit of extra help.
00:08:56
Speaker 2: I'm so glad. Of course he did.
00:08:58
Speaker 3: And then of course the first, you know, the scene that we have to do is like the very first thing is the blowjob.
00:09:03
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
00:09:04
Speaker 3: And so like, I'm like... They're like, do you want a cushion for your knees? And I was like, oh, my God, what's a girl like me doing in a place like this? I work all this time to get an acting job. And like, I know I'm just like.
00:09:14
Speaker 2: Oh, my gosh, so embarrassing. So embarrassing. I mean, that was the hard part of the show, too. And it's funny because people always just I don't know. They think that it's not weird or whatever. And I always think it is weird.
00:09:25
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
00:09:26
Speaker 2: It's weird. Like, it's weird to simulate sex.
00:09:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't know Willie very well at all. And like, they were like, oh, no, Willie, you have to get your underwear out. So I'm sitting there with his crotch in my face, you know, and like, and they kept being like, Sean, can you bob your head more? But they were trying to say it in a way that was like, didn't offend me at all. And, you know, you're there with all these, like, grips.
00:09:45
Speaker 1: And, like, everybody back there.
00:09:47
Speaker 3: So many people. And it's, like, so many, like, tough, straight guys. And I'm, like, just sitting there, like, oh, my God. Oh, no.
00:09:52
Speaker 2: It's so embarrassing. It's so embarrassing and funny.
00:09:55
Speaker 3: I really had to, like, bring all of them to collect myself for that. Totally.
00:09:59
Speaker 2: Totally. So previous. to this, you had been, like, primarily theater, Broadway, dancing. All Broadway.
00:10:06
Speaker 3: So, my first Broadway show was a nightmare, but it was called Dream. And it was a Johnny Mercer review of five decades of music. And I had been... uh, swing in the show. So I covered, I think six men in the show. Wow. And it was an all singing, all dance show that Wayne Salento had directed. And he was the choreographer of wicked. So if you remember the choreography from wicked and how complicated it was, this was like 10 times that.
00:10:32
Speaker 1: Oh my God.
00:10:33
Speaker 3: And so that was my very first show. And it was a nightmare because, uh, The show was doing so poorly that we had to get paid from the box office or else our checks wouldn't go through. Oh, Lord. People don't think that kind of stuff happens on Broadway. Never. But it did at that time. Wow. So that was my first show. And then my second show was Fosse. Whoa. Which obviously went on to be a big thing and won the Tony Award and stuff. And I was a swing in that show. And then I went on and did Saturday Night Fever, where I was one of the friends. And then I took over the lead in that show. Oh, my God. And then I took some time off. And after that, that's when Sex and the City happened.
00:11:07
Speaker 1: Amazing.
00:11:08
Speaker 2: And when we get you to dance in the show, was that weird for you or fun for you?
00:11:13
Speaker 3: Do you know what's crazy? So I was in Chicago, the movie, doing that number.
00:11:18
Speaker 2: Oh!
00:11:20
Speaker 1: Did Michael know that?
00:11:21
Speaker 3: No. Wow. Like of all the things, you know.
00:11:24
Speaker 2: Wow.
00:11:25
Speaker 3: And Mary Testa, obviously, who's in that is like a big, huge Broadway star. Like it's like you wouldn't know just from watching that little scene. But like Mary's like the queen of Broadway. Right. Right. And so it was a big deal. That was a big deal because I'm like. in a way, like I should have been the extra in that scene, but I was like, you know, the focus of what was happening on stage. And yet I'm next to Mary Testa and I was like, this is so weird.
00:11:45
Speaker 2: It was amazing. And people say such mean things about, you know, like the, the commentary, but it was also, I was like, why didn't we change? the dialogue to suit what was happening because you guys were amazing don't you.
00:11:58
Speaker 3: Mean well it was i mean it was he said it was you know supposed to be kind of tragic a little bit right that was a choreography credit on my part i did the choreography wow the guy next to me is a guy called ret who i had done uh literally during september 11th i was working on a thing called the baby and johnny project which was a which was actually dirty dancing which is what came to be the broadway show got it west end show So we were doing a workshop of it, and that's right when September 11th happened. But when I went to, like, Michael was like, do you know someone that you'd like to do this with? And I was like, oh, I'll call my friend Rhett because it'll be a gas to do that with him. So all of that stuff. Love it. So it's such a formative time in my life. Do you know what I mean?
00:12:40
Speaker 1: I can only imagine.
00:12:41
Speaker 3: Well, for you, it was as well. I mean, it's just, like, it's such a big period of time, and so much happened, and so much happened to us. So much. Like, that was a really special time to be on the show because I think that's when, like, it turnedâ the character of New York City into the portraiture. you know, that little, the very sweet beginning of the season with the sailors. And then we were all trying to still adjust to what had happened. And the show had to sort of catch up with reality a little bit. We couldn't totally ignore it, but we also couldn't talk about it because it was so awful. So it was a, it was a strange time, but I really felt very happy because I thought Michael did magic with, with what he had. Do you know what I mean?
00:13:21
Speaker 1: Yes, I do.
00:13:22
Speaker 3: I do. I think that that show would have the kind of, uh, robustness to be able to handle that. But it really worked well for those two seasons, I thought anyway.
00:13:42
Speaker 2: The thing about Michael is that, you know, he came from regular kind of, you know, sitcom world, Murphy Brown. So like very elevated sitcom, but still sitcom world. But he had this ability to take our show and make it so much like broader in what it could handle, as you're saying, like it didn't have to stay surfacy. And HBO just.
00:14:05
Speaker 1: Allowed us to do that, which was so- Yeah, I mean, that was kind of a miracle.
00:14:09
Speaker 3: Right? Absolutely.
00:14:10
Speaker 2: Like we were in the right place at the right time. And because it was so important to have a kind of idea that New York was continuing and that we were fine- It was, it took on greater importance, it felt like, to be soldiering on. But I think then also because Sarah got pregnant, which also felt very important in our lives, right?
00:14:30
Speaker 1: She really wanted to get pregnant.
00:14:32
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:14:32
Speaker 2: It had been something that Cynthia and Sarah had been discussing for quite some time. And I believe in this episode, Cynthia is also pregnant though. I need to check with her because it's so confusing because she's already had Brady on the show. Right. And she's supposed to be nursing, but it's confusing because I'm, I'm pretty sure, but I don't think people knew that at the time, but whatever it, I think what happened and I was not thinking this way myself in life. Like, I think we were all just like doing our best to keep all the balls in the air. You know what I mean? Like it was so intense, but, But for them, what I think happened, not unlike COVID, like, I don't know if you have friends who had like COVID babies, like people had COVID babies, you know, cause like we were cooped up, but also I think it was, it felt, you know, life-threatening in a way.
00:15:14
Speaker 1: You know, it was, I guess.
00:15:15
Speaker 3: It felt existential, certainly. Yes, yes. It's absolutely existential.
00:15:18
Speaker 1: Yes, yes.
00:15:19
Speaker 2: And I feel like because 9-11 was that way as well very much, if you were in Manhattan, I think both Cynthia and Sarah were like, what are we waiting for? Like, yes, we're on this huge hit show, but at the same time, you know, we need to have babies. We want to have babies. Like this is, we can't have our whole lives be about the show. Right. And Cynthia already had a baby, but then she had another and Sarah had her first, which was amazing. But then we had to take the break, which was so hard, but also this is what's important in life. You know, like you can't not live your life. It's a very hard thing that women go, go through, you know, trying to juggle it, you know?
00:15:55
Speaker 3: Well, I think that, yeah, no, I absolutely agree with that. I mean, obviously I've sort of, I didn't quit the business, but I certainly wandered away.
00:16:01
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:16:02
Speaker 3: And, uh, and, but I've seen so many talented women like have to suffer through that and like deal with the, how do I move to the expansion that I want, but then also have to think about the side long thing of like, how long will that last? And, you know, like I got to grab all the apples while I can kind of thing. Absolutely.
00:16:20
Speaker 2: It's impossible.
00:16:21
Speaker 3: I do feel it's, it's a little bit like, obviously the show has tried to change that for women, first of all, in dialogue. So these women kind of talking the way that maybe only gay men talk to then, and then the show going on and showing these women in a more mature phase of life. I think, you know, same thing for queer people. Like it was the first, I was so honored to be on the show, even though the blow drop, I was so honored to be on the show and not be the butt of a joke. And to be the punchline as a queer person, because that's obviously what ended up happening through all of, you know, history of television. They're always like, oh, don't be like this guy or this one's a mess or a fool. He always says the silly unimportant things. And it was just kind of nice that they were honoring that. And also it was like, you know, Michael had found love as well. So I think he was he was in an optimist phase.
00:17:08
Speaker 2: Definitely.
00:17:09
Speaker 3: He wanted that to show. And I was like, oh, I'm so glad that he's written that for these characters, particularly because all of the women were still.
00:17:16
Speaker 2: Like, oh, we got to find.
00:17:17
Speaker 1: Definitely.
00:17:17
Speaker 2: It was so nice for Stanford to find such a catch.
00:17:21
Speaker 1: It was amazing.
00:17:22
Speaker 2: And then what I love in this episode, which I. Like a lot of season five, I'm like, whoa, what is happening? Like, I don't remember the storylines at all. I remember filming, right? I remember things behind the scenes, but I don't remember the storylines. And so to see this entire episode, this one that we were going to talk about, Critical Condition, it's called Carrie's a Mess. It's so interesting. And when I had I had some of our writers on who aren't credited here, but they talked about how they had really in the writer's room been focusing on what we need to have Carrie be single for a while and really try to deal with herself, which is harder than it seems. It's quite the struggle and super fascinating. And I love because Stanford has been so much her sidekick since. in a different way than we are the whole time. Right. And also like struggling in kind of the adorable way that Willie did, like where he would, you know, self deprecating jokes in the beginning, but also like you really were on his side, you know, so much, right. Like he's kind of like the unsung hero in, in so many ways. So it was so amazing to have you just show up like, and be like his, you're, you're like a, you're like a trophy boyfriend, but also you're sweet, right. You don't, I'm saying like you have this sweet and also you're honest. Like the fact that you're just like, oh yeah, it's not very modern. You're just like, oh God, he's cute and sweet, but also honest. Like it's, it's so fascinating. And that's also the, I think the joy of Michael's writing is he can do so much like so quickly.
00:18:52
Speaker 3: Yeah. But he did it so little. I mean, it really like he, I remember him saying to me, cause I remember being like, Oh, I'm on the show, but I just say one thing, you know, like, and he said to me, it's harder to do what you're doing and stand in the scene and not have anything to say. Oh, or listen in one scene. Cause like I had to laugh at Willie's joke that he makes at the, that wedding dance. And, like Michael was like, brilliant. That was it. He's like, that's really hard.
00:19:14
Speaker 2: It's really hard.
00:19:15
Speaker 3: Great.
00:19:15
Speaker 2: You know, it's so true.
00:19:17
Speaker 3: I found this, but I did really learn those that, that, that it is hard to stand in a scene and be present when it's not about you. And you're like the cameras in there. And you know, it was, it was tough, but I was like, okay, I can do this. I got it.
00:19:29
Speaker 2: Now when, so you come on and do they say to you like, oh, you're going to stay your Willie's boyfriend, your Stanford's boyfriend. Like what, what, how did they, No.
00:19:38
Speaker 3: It was told to me that I would be in two episodes.
00:19:40
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:19:41
Speaker 3: And then it turned into like multiple seasons. And I just kept like, it just kept giving. I don't know. It was like Christmas. That's so nice.
00:19:48
Speaker 2: Still another person. And were you, was it scheduling difficulties? Were you also doing plays? Like, was there difficulty?
00:19:57
Speaker 3: No, I think I, it all worked out really well. I mean, the thing is, is like, as an actor, like I always did really big things that ended up in lots of, you know, publications and stuff. It looked like I was busy all the time. I was sitting around a lot.
00:20:10
Speaker 2: That's perfect. That's beautiful.
00:20:12
Speaker 3: I love it. I love it. I took advantage of all the nap time I had and stuff and obviously auditions, but, um, I hate auditions.
00:20:20
Speaker 2: So do I. So do I.
00:20:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're awful. But I, uh, I didn't have anything to worry about. And then like, I think right after Sex and the City, I got a Paula Vogel play that Mark, uh, Mark Brokaw directed down at the Vineyard Theater and Cynthia came and saw it.
00:20:37
Speaker 2: Amazing.
00:20:38
Speaker 3: That kind of stuff. And then I did like something in, in the Hamptons and Sarah and Michael came to see that. So, you know, it just, it just ended up that there was like a gap in my, Perfect.
00:20:49
Speaker 2: It worked out perfectly.
00:20:49
Speaker 3: Which was great because I could just sort of like go into the TV fantasy, you know.
00:20:52
Speaker 2: Love it. And one thing that I think someone brought up, the episode where you first came on, you know, I have Instagram for the podcast and people ask questions. They were like, what happens with the relationship? Like, did we ever explain what happens? Like, or you guys just.
00:21:09
Speaker 3: This is another story.
00:21:10
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:21:11
Speaker 3: So I was supposed to be in the film. Oh. The film was supposed to start with Willie's and my wedding. Oh, no. And you're supposed to think it was big and Sarah. And at that point, I was in London. I was doing an opera at like the, I don't know, somewhere. I don't know. But I was doing like a big thing in London. And I got a call. I think it was Melfi. And he was like, look, we got a call from the studio. And they don't want, and this is going to be the name of my biography. They don't want tertiary characters. Oh. And I was like, oh. So I think in the film, there's like, I'm on the guest list.
00:21:50
Speaker 1: You are?
00:21:51
Speaker 3: I'm on Carrie's guest list. It shows in the scene. Apparently, I've heard this.
00:21:54
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it myself.
00:21:55
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. So it never got really resolved, but there's lore.
00:22:00
Speaker 2: Wow. Okay, let's just slow down for a second. So we're talking about the first film.
00:22:06
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:07
Speaker 2: And you and Stanford are supposed to be getting married. And it's like a fake out.
00:22:12
Speaker 3: You're supposed to be at a wedding. Yeah, it's a big fake out. Thinking like, oh, they're finally getting married. And it's actually Stanford and Marcus.
00:22:19
Speaker 1: Oh, my God.
00:22:20
Speaker 3: Yeah. So, of course, that was disappointing that that didn't happen.
00:22:24
Speaker 2: Heartbreaking. I'm so sorry. Why did those new line executives say that? Darn it.
00:22:30
Speaker 3: I have to say, you know, like it seems very obvious to me that Stanford would have ended up with Antony.
00:22:37
Speaker 1: You think so? Because I thought you made more sense.
00:22:40
Speaker 2: I'm going to be in so much trouble for a second.
00:22:42
Speaker 3: I watched all the episodes. I started with the one you asked me to. I watched all the episodes and I watched their back and forth. And I just thought as an audience member, I was like, they're going to end up together. Wow. That was my feeling. And that's after having watched it and been the boyfriend. Wow.
00:22:55
Speaker 2: Wow.
00:22:56
Speaker 3: Wow.
00:22:56
Speaker 2: That's really interesting. I mean, maybe I'll feel that way too. But like for me, I remember when we did the second movie and we did their wedding, which really I think was like Michael needed to get some wedding ya-ya's out because it was like so over the top. We filmed that wedding for so unbelievably long. We got in so much trouble. Liza Minnelli was there. There were swans, you know, it was like, we couldn't drag Michael out.
00:23:18
Speaker 3: How many times do you get to say that in your life?
00:23:20
Speaker 2: I know, totally.
00:23:21
Speaker 1: Liza Minnelli and swans.
00:23:22
Speaker 2: I know you never get to, but the reason I remember the swans is because everyone was afraid they were going to like hurt people because they had to just swim like that little, like, you know, lazy river that they made for them.
00:23:32
Speaker 1: In inside the soundstage.
00:23:33
Speaker 2: It was so crazy, that thing. Like, how did they let us do any of this?
00:23:37
Speaker 3: How?
00:23:38
Speaker 2: But we overdid ourselves and they tried to cut time off the end of our shoot. And Michael Patrick was like.
00:23:44
Speaker 1: You can't cut time.
00:23:45
Speaker 2: These scenes are important. And they said, no one will notice. These were the New Line executives, right? Not the HBO executives. And they said to Michael Patrick King, no one will notice. Oh, that was not a pretty conversation. We all could hear the conversation. That's how loud it was. He had to say, like, our fans notice everything, which 30 years later, I think we can be pretty sure of at this point.
00:24:09
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
00:24:10
Speaker 2: Yes. But I do. It's interesting to me because when I think of Anthony and Stanford, I feel like it's a little hard to be objective, of course, because Willie is so different from Stanford, right? And Mario is kind of different from Anthony, but not as different as Willie is from Stanford. But Stanford's so sweet. Like, there's such a sweetness about him, which is what's so wonderful about your character.
00:24:34
Speaker 1: Like, the sweetness.
00:24:35
Speaker 2: You're like, oh, look, he got a sweet guy. This is so perfect. He doesn't have to, likeâ be tougher or whatever like put on a tough facade whereas with Anthony there is like that repartee that's kind of like edgy and whatever which is more like Willie was in life right like Willie could be very like acerbic and you know witty but like cutting wit you know like he would he would like get to the.
00:25:01
Speaker 3: Root of what he was very sharp and very funny right like I mean his friends were like all the comedians and like so obviously he was like you know he just like Absolutely.
00:25:10
Speaker 2: So fast, so fast. And like, you know, one time I was on a plane, I was going to this benefit in Vegas with one of my friends for Ben Affleck's Congo. He has a whole charity in the Democratic Republic of Congo. So they say, oh, you're going to fly on like the MGM plane or some plane like from Vegas.
00:25:31
Speaker 1: I don't know, some private plane.
00:25:32
Speaker 2: So I get on the plane. There's Willie because Willie is a very good gambler. which makes perfect sense.
00:25:37
Speaker 3: Right.
00:25:38
Speaker 2: And so Willie and I, I was like, Oh my God. So we had the crazy weekend. We stayed in like these huge suites with pool tables and whatnot. And then I think Willie won, but he didn't win the whole thing. And this other guy won this like huge stack of money. And then we were flying back and we, we took really silly pictures of him, like, like licking the money. Like he's so funny. I mean, obviously talk about him as though he's here. And of course we wish that he was.
00:26:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's hard. It's really heartbreaking.
00:26:07
Speaker 1: It's so hard. Yeah, it's so hard.
00:26:09
Speaker 2: Okay, so the fans want to know what happened. So we can't really tell them other than that it's New Line's executive's fault.
00:26:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's the real story was just the tertiary character thing, which, you know. is going to stay with me until the day I die. It's really, it's a great story.
00:26:26
Speaker 2: It's a knife to the heart though. It's a knife to the heart because it would have been so, so sweet to see you guys getting married.
00:26:33
Speaker 3: I have a question for you though, because this might, might apply to you, which is that when, when the show was actually airing, people kept saying to me and getting messages to me saying he would never end up with someone like you. And the truth in real life was that I was dating a bald Jewish guy. And like you sort of, I've wondered if you've had the same sort of questions from people because it's a bit of a similar situation.
00:26:56
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:26:57
Speaker 3: I mean, I think at first. I was the brown eyed one.
00:27:06
Speaker 1: You know, who looks like us. We could all play siblings somewhere.
00:27:10
Speaker 2: And, you know, I think, but also I feel like because the Trey relationship with Charlotte was so kind of torturous for so long, I think the fans were like, oh God, yeah, she's got to get out of that.
00:27:22
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
00:27:22
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:27:23
Speaker 1: So I think there was some relief.
00:27:24
Speaker 2: And I just, because Evan comes in these episodes that you also show up in, And he is such a breath of fresh air.
00:27:31
Speaker 1: You know, it's like quite powerful.
00:27:34
Speaker 2: I had forgotten. It's really interesting. Like he really came in so strong and present, you know, because he also doesn't have a lot to do in the beginning. kind of, you know, similar to you. Like, and it is really hard. I felt this way the first season, like Charlotte took some time for them to kind of figure out what they wanted me to do. And it took some time for Michael to figure out what he wanted me to do. And I'd have to be in those scenes. You're, you're like super present. You have to be extra present when you don't have lines, you know?
00:28:04
Speaker 1: And it is hard.
00:28:05
Speaker 2: And I think it's hard partly because You have no idea. Like it's all in the editor's hand, you know, like you could be a big part of the scene or a really small part of the scene, depending on how they want to cut it together.
00:28:17
Speaker 3: Yeah. I remember finding that being so weird because you have an idea of what's happening in the scene as you're doing it. And then I would watch it and be like, oh, the balance of that is completely different than I would have thought it was going to be. And I remember finding that quite a charming thing because it's like you can only know when you're the person inside the TV set, that that's actually what's happening.
00:28:36
Speaker 2: Absolutely true.
00:28:37
Speaker 3: And it's so different to the page that how it ends up in real life. Absolutely true. I remember really loving that though. It's true. I had no idea that was going to happen. And reactions of things where I was like, I'm not going to be in that part of the scene. And then all of a sudden, like a reaction that I did or something was like a big part of what happened. Definitely.
00:28:52
Speaker 2: Definitely. And I think for me, I always felt like that was really affirming, right? Because you, sometimes when you think you're not a big part of the scene, you're like really free.
00:29:00
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:29:03
Speaker 1: You know, because the camera's not like in your face or whatever.
00:29:06
Speaker 2: And then you're like, oh, that is good when I'm relaxed. I should work towards that, right? Also, I want to say here that we had two amazing editors, Wendy Stanzler and Michael Barenbaum. Michael ended up doing the movies, I believe, and just like that, like we love him.
00:29:34
Speaker 1: And Wendy was amazing.
00:29:35
Speaker 2: So part of the success and joy when we watch it, we talk about the writers. is also the editing, you know, cause it can make or break.
00:29:43
Speaker 1: Especially in comedy.
00:29:45
Speaker 3: Editing and comedy are like, you know, the editors have to be like, have that great sense of humor in the comic. Cause they're, they know when to make the strike happen. And I think They obviously were terrific at it because I watched it. I remember being like, I don't remember the show being as funny as it is now. It's like extremely funny. But I had this theory that like, I think Charlotte is like the, you're like the person that they can do penance to, you know? You have this face that is like, And even when Charlotte's distressed, we know she's going to be okay because even her face can't look upset for too long. You know, it's like we're not convinced that Charlotte's going to be upset for too long because her face won't even make the face of being upset too long. You know what?
00:30:27
Speaker 1: I think that's editing.
00:30:28
Speaker 3: There's such a beauty about it.
00:30:28
Speaker 2: You're so sweet. I do think that's editing though.
00:30:30
Speaker 3: Maybe, but I think it's just, it's how it comes across. And then you end up being like this person that they all sort of like, am I still good enough to get your love? And you're like, yeah, it's fine. And it's very sweet because the three girls are sort of gathering around the light of Charlotte. You know what I mean?
00:30:43
Speaker 2: That's so sweet, Sean. I don't know if that's true, but that's adorable. I'm going to take that and keep it in my heart that you said that. It's so, so sweet. I love that. I don't know if any of that is true, but I love it very much. I do feel when I watch back, first of all, it is funnier than I remember, right? And weird moments are funny. Oh, really?
00:31:07
Speaker 3: It's a weird show.
00:31:08
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's really all over the place. And we were so kind of.
00:31:12
Speaker 1: bold, you know what I mean?
00:31:14
Speaker 2: We didn't fit in like in into a, you know, that was the joy of HBO, they just let us be however we were going to be you didn't have to be like a sitcom or a you know, whatever. But I also feel sometimes with my face and my being, You know, I'm like, wow, what am I doing there? Like, it's super interesting. But I just remember trying to, you know, like, please, Michael, you know, like we all loved Michael so much and we wanted to please Michael. And I felt like Michael kind of. you know, shaped me and brought me along so much. Right. Because they didn't know who Charlotte was. And, you know, he did, he's come on the podcast many times and he will come back, but, you know, he talks about like.
00:31:55
Speaker 1: Oh, and then suddenly I realized, oh yes, we can do that.
00:31:57
Speaker 2: You know? And, and because he included us so much in the process, it was just a, like one in a million type you know, experience.
00:32:08
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying?
00:32:09
Speaker 3: Like, it was really, I loved being on set with you guys when I'd get to see those conversations happen, particularly between the director, but when it was Michael, that there was such a, like a deep conversation about what's happened. Like Sarah would be like, no, I made that face then. And I don't want to do that again. And he, you know, all the discussions were so well thought out and, And it was clear that it was like your involvement is absolutely critical to this.
00:32:35
Speaker 2: So wonderful.
00:32:36
Speaker 3: Do you remember there was one scene? I think it was us. It may have been the book launch party.
00:32:42
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:32:43
Speaker 3: But like. Michael came over and like, like would say a line into your ear and like be like, say it. And the other actors wouldn't know it. Like that was so lively and magical. And you're just like, thank you for making this whole experience. Like, you know, theatrical in a way for me, it's like, it's just bubbling with life. And I've really appreciated his way of doing that and getting to watch you guys do your work.
00:33:05
Speaker 2: Do you remember the really, really long dinner party at, with Petrovsky?
00:33:11
Speaker 3: Yeah. Of course, because like, do you know, it's my dream in the world to meet Varyshnikov. Like, come on.
00:33:16
Speaker 2: Totally, totally. What was it like for you?
00:33:19
Speaker 3: Whenever the camera stopped, like I would go sit next to him and he actually wanted to talk to me because I'd done Fosse and.
00:33:25
Speaker 2: All this kind of stuff.
00:33:26
Speaker 3: We were like talking about like, he was telling me about how, you know, he was at a certain age. He should have been able to just like leap to the bathroom. But he was like, I was in so much pain at a very young age that I would have to crawl every morning to the bathroom. And it wasn't until I did my warmup that I could like get up and actually appear as Baryshnikov because my body was in such pain. I was like, of course, like I, that's why I didn't, you know, keep dancing after 27. Like I would, I was like, what's the salary like, but you know, it wasn't something that I was, I wasn't running to do like dance anymore. And that's why, but he was, it was just like, what a dream. And I, you know, it was a big deal to like call my mom and tell her that I was on Sex and the City or that I got to start like a starting like lead in a Broadway show. But to tell her that I met Baryshnikov was like, she was, you know, over the moon about that. It was really cool.
00:34:16
Speaker 2: Do you remember him playing the piano?
00:34:18
Speaker 3: No. I am trying to remember. I sort of remember a piano being in there, but it was like, oh, no, I do. He did, right? You mean between takes. Yeah, he did.
00:34:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he did. I think, I was trying to remember when it was, but like he has such the melancholy brooding element that just cannot... leave, at least from.
00:34:38
Speaker 1: What I observed or whatever. And so sometimes we were just like, please, please, yes, play the piano.
00:34:43
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
00:34:44
Speaker 1: Like find an outlet, you know, it was like being in another world.
00:34:50
Speaker 3: Yeah. He's really intense.
00:34:51
Speaker 2: Really intense.
00:34:52
Speaker 3: But it was, that was the nice thing about talking to him about dance. Cause he lit up a little bit and like that head, the heaviness went away. I'm not saying I helped Brezhnekov on set, but I did.
00:35:01
Speaker 2: No, you did.
00:35:01
Speaker 1: You totally did. Because all of us were like, what did we talk to him about?
00:35:04
Speaker 3: Oh my God.
00:35:05
Speaker 2: What You know what I mean? Because, I mean, Sarah and he already were, you know, they were already synced in with each other, but the rest of us didn't.
00:35:13
Speaker 1: We didn't know what to do.
00:35:15
Speaker 2: Like, it was panicking.
00:35:15
Speaker 3: It's intimidating, you know?
00:35:17
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:35:17
Speaker 3: It's like the White Knights and, like, the Muppet Show. All of it. He's, like, legendary to me.
00:35:23
Speaker 2: I mean, so legendary to all of us. And it's so incredible that we got him on the show. Wow.
00:35:28
Speaker 3: I know.
00:35:29
Speaker 2: I still can't.
00:35:29
Speaker 3: I know.
00:35:30
Speaker 2: I think Sarah just begged him.
00:35:31
Speaker 3: Did that really happen?
00:35:32
Speaker 2: I know.
00:35:32
Speaker 1: That's how I feel, too. And now that we're almost at the part of watching, I'm just like.
00:35:36
Speaker 2: Like, and also I feel like I was so overwhelmed at the.
00:35:39
Speaker 1: Time that I don't even know. I don't even know.
00:35:42
Speaker 2: Also like when you have someone that legendary, so awkward to know, are you supposed to talk to them about all the things that mean so much to you? Are you not supposed to?
00:35:52
Speaker 1: Like, it's so weird, you know?
00:35:54
Speaker 3: Well, I felt that way with all of you guys.
00:35:55
Speaker 2: That's the thing.
00:35:56
Speaker 3: No, I genuinely did. Like I was like, you know, you're like, you're coming on the show in such a late stage and there's so much momentum behind it. And I know that you guys have been doing this and seeing guest stars come on and leave and totally forgotten them. And I was like, how present do I, you know, how present do I need to be here? Like, do I want to like try and have like, like substantial conversations, but it turned out that like there was enough in the scenes and like, I got to have like a full experience anyway, because obviously there's like waiting and all that kind of stuff. There are really beautiful moments, like listening to Frances Sternhagen. I was in a dressing room right behind her. And so I would listen to her practice her lines over and over and over. Wow. And I was like, again, what's a girl like me doing in a place like this? I just couldn't believe that I'm like, it's so legendary. Those kind of little moments. Absolutely. Like I've got a career just like I taught Gwen Verdon how to use a cell phone.
00:36:49
Speaker 2: Like amongst all the.
00:36:51
Speaker 3: Things is like Frances Sternhagen sitting with Baryshnikov, like all these little things that nobody saw. They're very proud. Well, they saw me sit next to Baryshnikov, but. You know, they're little private things that are like, these are like Angela Lansbury gave me like a drink that she wasn't going to drink.
00:37:04
Speaker 2: Like, you know, big to me, a big deal.
00:37:05
Speaker 3: I worked with her too. You know, like you're like, this is crazy.
00:37:08
Speaker 2: She called me Starshine.
00:37:11
Speaker 3: Oh. So sweet. And it's the thing. You take it. It's like your mantra. So you're proud of it.
00:37:16
Speaker 1: Definitely.
00:37:17
Speaker 3: This is my thing. I love it.
00:37:18
Speaker 2: They are magical moments to get to be around people that, A, we have seen and admired, but also just like Franny, just a genius actress, like just genius.
00:37:29
Speaker 1: And the fact that we could.
00:37:31
Speaker 2: incorporate them into the show and yourself, like people from Broadway, like what a fascinating mix it was.
00:37:37
Speaker 3: You know? Another friend of mine on the show is Lynn Cohn.
00:37:40
Speaker 2: Oh, Lynn. I know I'm at the part where she's like really present.
00:37:46
Speaker 1: And I mean, just amazing.
00:37:48
Speaker 3: Isn't it? She was in, when I was telling you about the baby and Johnny, that's, I'd worked with her in that. She was like the grandparent in that.
00:37:55
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
00:37:55
Speaker 3: And I can tell you a story about, Lynn Cohn reminded me so much of my high school girlfriend. When she was bored backstage, she would just get into stuff. And she like found some makeup in an old handbag that was a prop and started putting it on her face.
00:38:08
Speaker 2: Oh my God.
00:38:09
Speaker 3: She was so much trouble.
00:38:10
Speaker 2: She was.
00:38:11
Speaker 3: She really was.
00:38:12
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:38:12
Speaker 3: I used to get on the bus on 9th and 10th Avenue, like to go somewhere and Lynn would be on the bus. We'd like just chat the whole way down to his face. stitch like she really was.
00:38:21
Speaker 2: She was perfect she was so different from her character Oh, so different.
00:38:25
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:38:25
Speaker 2: Cause her character, like at the, the, the part, the episode that we're in, she just glares at Cynthia, like judging her, which I mean, Miranda, sorry, but you know, and, and that was the, that was what we needed.
00:38:35
Speaker 3: Right.
00:38:36
Speaker 2: And like, do you remember when she put the, the Mary Magdalene or whatever, like the Jesus, what a trip and a half, but like, she was so not that way, you know, and so a perfect, perfect, um, match for Cynthia, like to be, you know, with Cynthia and, and, and Cynthia's Miranda's world. you know, of course everyone's bled together in my mind now, but like just magical that we, that we had her as well. Like, like the same level of the Franny nest, you know what I'm saying? And Franny also completely opposite from bunny, like not a bunny bone in her body. But when I watched the scene where she's so mean to me, you know, Oh, it hurts.
00:39:14
Speaker 3: It hurts.
00:39:15
Speaker 1: She was so good at it.
00:39:16
Speaker 3: You know, I just watched the, uh, yesterday. I think it was the one where she comes into the apartment after you think it's yours.
00:39:21
Speaker 2: And, Mortifying.
00:39:23
Speaker 3: This is Chanel.
00:39:24
Speaker 1: I know, mortifying.
00:39:25
Speaker 2: When I watch myself with her, I think I'm... What I see... acting-wise, is that I'm just a bit starstruck. Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm not... Like, for instance... I'm mad when she comes in, but I feel like I should have been madder. Charlotte should have been madder. But it's Franny, and I love her so much. You know what I'm saying? Like, I look forward to any Franny day. She'd come in with her Birkenstock. You know what I mean? She'd come in. She'd be gardening in the morning and come in.
00:39:52
Speaker 1: Like, she was just a joy.
00:39:54
Speaker 2: And I can somewhat see that in my face. I mean, obviously I'm nitpicking, but, like, I should have been probably madder at her. But I think also Charlotte is, like, intimidated and still wants her love, kind of.
00:40:08
Speaker 3: That's what I see. Is it? Yeah, when you watch it. I see that Charlotte has just got this indomitable cheer. She's like, I am cheerful. That's what I do. Yeah. And so I can get through this. And so every, like, sometimes you'll kind of stumble off. It's like falling off of one high heel, but you're like, get back up again. You know, it's like never, never totally tumbling over.
00:40:30
Speaker 1: It's just something.
00:40:32
Speaker 3: It's just something indomitable. That's why I think that the other girls are sort of like, can you, if you can love us, then the rest of the world can love us too. It's got that, you have that balancing nature.
00:40:42
Speaker 2: That's nice.
00:40:43
Speaker 3: I think it's really lovely.
00:40:44
Speaker 2: That's so nice. I did this movie one time after Sex and the City and And I had this wonderful director. He was Irish. He was great. And he said to me, it was a movie about mental health issues. And like my sister had schizophrenia. And so it was about like families trying to take care of mental health things in a way that is pretty much impossible. And he said to me, I don't want you to smile.
00:41:08
Speaker 1: And I was like, what?
00:41:11
Speaker 2: Oh, how, how is that possible? So he told me, I don't want you to smile because I think he felt like I smiled too much, just like in general.
00:41:19
Speaker 1: So, and my character was not happy, right? She was very unhappy.
00:41:23
Speaker 2: So at one point, my kids in the movie had been away from me and then they come back.
00:41:27
Speaker 1: And of course I smiled and he was like, no, you smile.
00:41:29
Speaker 2: And I'm like, come on, I gotta smile for the kids. I'll never forget it.
00:41:33
Speaker 1: Cause I was like, oh, what? Don't, don't, don't smile.
00:41:37
Speaker 3: Oh Lord.
00:41:37
Speaker 1: Oh, But it was a good note. You know what I'm saying?
00:41:40
Speaker 3: It is a good note, but it can also turn into an existential crisis. Let's be honest. It really was. It's like one of those things that's like going to just haunt you.
00:41:46
Speaker 2: It did.
00:41:46
Speaker 3: Is that all right?
00:41:47
Speaker 2: Yes, totally.
00:41:48
Speaker 1: But I mean, this is why we act, right? Do different things.
00:41:52
Speaker 2: You guys, this is so much fun that we are going to have to have a part two. So join us later in the week on Are You a Charlotte?
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? Hi, everybody.
00:00:07
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Are You a Charlotte? Today, a super special guest is zooming in from Ireland.
00:00:14
Speaker 1: It is Sean Palmer, who played.
00:00:17
Speaker 2: Marcus, who was Stanford's boyfriend. He is so amazing and has so many great memories and insights. And he and I are going to rewatch Critical Condition, which which is episode 506 aired August 25th, 2002.
00:00:35
Speaker 1: And hi, hi, Sean. You look exactly the same. How is it possible?
00:00:40
Speaker 2: You do. I don't, I don't. We both have glasses though.
00:00:44
Speaker 3: I love it.
00:00:45
Speaker 2: I love it so much.
00:00:46
Speaker 1: Wait, this is London. You're in London now.
00:00:48
Speaker 3: No, I'm in Dublin.
00:00:49
Speaker 1: What are you doing in Dublin?
00:00:51
Speaker 3: So my husband got a job here about eight years ago and we both had been sort of, he's from London, well from Scotland, but from London and, And I'd been traveling back and forth between New York and London. And so we both moved upstate New York for a little while. And then he got this job offer. And we're like, shall we? Should we? Amazing. We did. And we really liked it here. Moved like right before COVID. And it was just like a... It was such a graceful place to do that. Oh, nice. Do you know what I mean? Because obviously there was so much stuff going on all over the world. So it was really, I was like, wow, this place is different in that way. And it was obviously a big adjustment from New York and London, but it's mellowed me in the best way. It's been really, really good.
00:01:34
Speaker 1: And are you teaching meditation?
00:01:36
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:01:37
Speaker 2: Amazing. Wow. How did that start?
00:01:41
Speaker 3: Well, I started meditating in like, I think eight, seven or eight years ago. And I went to London to see a friend who was like the lead, like a designer for like Anya Hindmarch.
00:01:54
Speaker 2: Oh, wow.
00:01:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure.
00:01:55
Speaker 1: I own many of those.
00:01:57
Speaker 3: Yeah. So they got into like the fashion show scene and his work schedule was crazy. And he was like going off to cry in the bathroom like all the time because the pressure was getting so much. He loved the job, obviously, but he was like so stressed out. And I didn't see him for a while. And then I went back and saw him. It was a complete 180. I was like, who is this person? He's like in a great space. He's really like stable. And he said that he'd learned meditation. So I went straight out and took his advice and learned. Wow. It's been a game changer for me.
00:02:28
Speaker 2: That's wonderful. What style? What type?
00:02:31
Speaker 3: It's Vedic meditation. So if you do bring it up, it's just it's, it's, it's like TM, but we can't say it's TM for the sake, because it's all the people that sort of broke away from TM and there was a lawsuit and all that kind of stuff. So it's TM, essentially it's mantra based meditation. You know, 20 minutes twice a day, that whole thing.
00:02:47
Speaker 1: I've done it. I've done it. I've heard about it.
00:02:49
Speaker 2: Yes, I've definitely done it. I've definitely done it.
00:02:52
Speaker 1: Those are things I miss.
00:02:53
Speaker 2: And, and one day I would love to recommit, you know, to those types of practices.
00:02:58
Speaker 1: Cause I do think they're, they're really powerful and interesting.
00:03:01
Speaker 3: I think like you're a mother. So motherhood is also very, it's a practice like a Durga practice. You know, you have to destroy yesterday and come straight into today with the full.
00:03:10
Speaker 2: It's so true. And it takes a lot of work.
00:03:12
Speaker 3: They have a real life application.
00:03:14
Speaker 1: That's a good point.
00:03:15
Speaker 3: Yeah. Other rituals that happen in real life.
00:03:17
Speaker 2: It's so true. It's so true. And also they would be helpful with those other rituals. Do you know what I'm saying?
00:03:22
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, for sure. I'm not saying don't do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:03:24
Speaker 2: I mean, when the kids go back to school, I'm at the end of the summer. My kids are not in school yet. Everyone else's are. And I'm just like counting the days. Okay.
00:03:31
Speaker 1: Mostly, I have so many things to ask you about. So, so many.
00:03:35
Speaker 2: Because in my mind, we're getting to the part of the show where I don't have really... I have bits and pieces of memories, but like it got all kind of overwhelming at a certain point, which is right around the part where you come, which is season five. So please take me back and tell me your experience. How did you come to be on our show?
00:03:55
Speaker 3: Well, I came to be on the show strangely because one of Michael's best friends was my next door neighbor. And she's been on the show.
00:04:03
Speaker 2: Who?
00:04:03
Speaker 3: Who? Her name is Nancy Shane. She was in And Just Like That as two different characters. One is a funeral director. Yes.
00:04:10
Speaker 1: Oh, my gosh.
00:04:12
Speaker 2: That's crazy.
00:04:13
Speaker 3: So in 1993, I moved to a building in which she lived on the sixth floor and I lived on the third floor. And I kept moving up floors until I was literally like right across the hall from her. And there was. Basically, we lived for years like we had no front door. And so Nancy would always let me be her plus one to go to your premieres.
00:04:30
Speaker 2: Amazing. So we kind of knew you in that way.
00:04:34
Speaker 3: So I was around the whole thing, whatever. And I would go to like Michael's Christmas parties and like, you know, stuff like that in the village. It was Elizabeth Street, I think.
00:04:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:04:44
Speaker 3: So yeah, so I would go to those and I got familiar with everybody. And the way I got on the show, I am told, this came to me through Michael and others, is that one year I was at his Christmas party and I was a very shy person. Like even though I'd done Broadway and dancing and stuff, if it was not in the script, I didn't want to do it. So real life was very stressful. So I was at Michael's party and of course it's famous people at the time. It's like, you know, It's like Sandra Bernhardt and like Rosie, like all the people, right? I just named two lesbians, but it's not all lesbians.
00:05:19
Speaker 2: That's cool.
00:05:20
Speaker 3: And so I'm at the party apparently and I was talking to one person and then like all of a sudden it was just like a flock of men around me. And Michael just thought I was the strangest person because I didn't really come up with anything like prescient to say so much. And so he was like, how are you like getting all these people around you and whatever? And it was just a very strange thing. And he said, and I just thought that was so funny. You would say this awkward thing and they'd all laugh. And, you know, so he sort of brought me on to come and say one strange line in a scene like that, you know, the very first scene I was in where I'm like, it's not very modern or something. Yes.
00:05:52
Speaker 2: About Carrie's dress for the, yes, that was excellent.
00:05:56
Speaker 3: Yes. Go ahead. So it's sort of that, you know, the vibe was like this person who's, you know, maybe on the spectrum. Yeah.
00:06:03
Speaker 2: I love it.
00:06:03
Speaker 3: And comes on and says something strange. But anyway, that's how I got associated.
00:06:07
Speaker 2: And when you came, did you know that you would be Stanford's boyfriend?
00:06:13
Speaker 3: So I think I sort of remember Michael trying to get me to come in and audition for... I think there was a Berka bag one. And like there was maybe a shop keeps... Like there kept being opportunities. And then he was like, it's not right. And then he said, I'm going to write something specifically for you. So he wrote... Marcus based on me. Wow. And which was very flattering because he was like, a daunt is sort of like a nod to Adonis. And, you know, they must think I'm cute.
00:06:40
Speaker 2: You were way. I mean, you still are. But I mean, very cute. Very cute.
00:06:45
Speaker 3: You know, it was a huge compliment, but I did have to go in and audition to play this.
00:06:48
Speaker 2: No way.
00:06:48
Speaker 3: I had to go in and audition to get, to see if I was funny enough to play the character.
00:06:53
Speaker 2: Oh my good Lord. Was it scary?
00:06:55
Speaker 3: That, that, oh my gosh, it was terrifying, you know? And also, as you said, you, you sort of indicated that like at that point, it was such a big thing. There was so much momentum behind the show at the time. You guys were so famous. It was everywhere. You were in every magazine or everyone wanted to look like you or every, you know, and I can't imagine what it was like to be like in that situation. So to go into it, all of a sudden I felt like, well, you'll remember this. Like the Brady Bunch was such a big thing. And then like all of a sudden you're in the Brady Bunch and they're talking to you. And I was like, you know, now I'm in the big show and they're expecting me to respond to them. And that first day of like being on set with just, it was Sarah. Kim and Willie and myself in a very small set.
00:07:37
Speaker 2: The fitting room. The fitting room.
00:07:38
Speaker 3: The fitting room. Yeah. And they had already blocked out everything. And I'd never been on television before. So I was like, I don't know what happens. And I didn't know the words to listen for. Like, you know, obviously cut and things like that. Right. But nobody gives you a primer. Right. And you're walking over the dolly thing. Oh, my gosh. It was crazy. Wow. And also, I don't know if you remember this, but season five was crazy. the season that got broken.
00:08:03
Speaker 2: Yes. The pregnancy season.
00:08:05
Speaker 3: Yes. The pregnancy.
00:08:07
Speaker 2: How about Willie?
00:08:07
Speaker 1: Did you know Willie before? Had you met Willie at Michael's?
00:08:10
Speaker 3: No. And this is another great story, which is that Willie came, you were the first person I met because your costume fitting was either next after mine or just before mine. So you were the very first person I met. And then Willie came in or stayed especially because he almost was like, I got a prop. Like, I got a story. And so he stayed and he like wanted to talk to Pat about what costumes I was going to wear and how they would match with the like the bow tang. And he like, he was there. I mean, I'll probably cry, but like he was so supportive and so kind. And it was a big deal, you know, for me to get on the show, like the Broadway dancer and all that kind of stuff. And he just was very kind in terms of me saying that, like, I didn't know anything. Willie gave me that little bit of extra help.
00:08:56
Speaker 2: I'm so glad. Of course he did.
00:08:58
Speaker 3: And then of course the first, you know, the scene that we have to do is like the very first thing is the blowjob.
00:09:03
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
00:09:04
Speaker 3: And so like, I'm like... They're like, do you want a cushion for your knees? And I was like, oh, my God, what's a girl like me doing in a place like this? I work all this time to get an acting job. And like, I know I'm just like.
00:09:14
Speaker 2: Oh, my gosh, so embarrassing. So embarrassing. I mean, that was the hard part of the show, too. And it's funny because people always just I don't know. They think that it's not weird or whatever. And I always think it is weird.
00:09:25
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
00:09:26
Speaker 2: It's weird. Like, it's weird to simulate sex.
00:09:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't know Willie very well at all. And like, they were like, oh, no, Willie, you have to get your underwear out. So I'm sitting there with his crotch in my face, you know, and like, and they kept being like, Sean, can you bob your head more? But they were trying to say it in a way that was like, didn't offend me at all. And, you know, you're there with all these, like, grips.
00:09:45
Speaker 1: And, like, everybody back there.
00:09:47
Speaker 3: So many people. And it's, like, so many, like, tough, straight guys. And I'm, like, just sitting there, like, oh, my God. Oh, no.
00:09:52
Speaker 2: It's so embarrassing. It's so embarrassing and funny.
00:09:55
Speaker 3: I really had to, like, bring all of them to collect myself for that. Totally.
00:09:59
Speaker 2: Totally. So previous. to this, you had been, like, primarily theater, Broadway, dancing. All Broadway.
00:10:06
Speaker 3: So, my first Broadway show was a nightmare, but it was called Dream. And it was a Johnny Mercer review of five decades of music. And I had been... uh, swing in the show. So I covered, I think six men in the show. Wow. And it was an all singing, all dance show that Wayne Salento had directed. And he was the choreographer of wicked. So if you remember the choreography from wicked and how complicated it was, this was like 10 times that.
00:10:32
Speaker 1: Oh my God.
00:10:33
Speaker 3: And so that was my very first show. And it was a nightmare because, uh, The show was doing so poorly that we had to get paid from the box office or else our checks wouldn't go through. Oh, Lord. People don't think that kind of stuff happens on Broadway. Never. But it did at that time. Wow. So that was my first show. And then my second show was Fosse. Whoa. Which obviously went on to be a big thing and won the Tony Award and stuff. And I was a swing in that show. And then I went on and did Saturday Night Fever, where I was one of the friends. And then I took over the lead in that show. Oh, my God. And then I took some time off. And after that, that's when Sex and the City happened.
00:11:07
Speaker 1: Amazing.
00:11:08
Speaker 2: And when we get you to dance in the show, was that weird for you or fun for you?
00:11:13
Speaker 3: Do you know what's crazy? So I was in Chicago, the movie, doing that number.
00:11:18
Speaker 2: Oh!
00:11:20
Speaker 1: Did Michael know that?
00:11:21
Speaker 3: No. Wow. Like of all the things, you know.
00:11:24
Speaker 2: Wow.
00:11:25
Speaker 3: And Mary Testa, obviously, who's in that is like a big, huge Broadway star. Like it's like you wouldn't know just from watching that little scene. But like Mary's like the queen of Broadway. Right. Right. And so it was a big deal. That was a big deal because I'm like. in a way, like I should have been the extra in that scene, but I was like, you know, the focus of what was happening on stage. And yet I'm next to Mary Testa and I was like, this is so weird.
00:11:45
Speaker 2: It was amazing. And people say such mean things about, you know, like the, the commentary, but it was also, I was like, why didn't we change? the dialogue to suit what was happening because you guys were amazing don't you.
00:11:58
Speaker 3: Mean well it was i mean it was he said it was you know supposed to be kind of tragic a little bit right that was a choreography credit on my part i did the choreography wow the guy next to me is a guy called ret who i had done uh literally during september 11th i was working on a thing called the baby and johnny project which was a which was actually dirty dancing which is what came to be the broadway show got it west end show So we were doing a workshop of it, and that's right when September 11th happened. But when I went to, like, Michael was like, do you know someone that you'd like to do this with? And I was like, oh, I'll call my friend Rhett because it'll be a gas to do that with him. So all of that stuff. Love it. So it's such a formative time in my life. Do you know what I mean?
00:12:40
Speaker 1: I can only imagine.
00:12:41
Speaker 3: Well, for you, it was as well. I mean, it's just, like, it's such a big period of time, and so much happened, and so much happened to us. So much. Like, that was a really special time to be on the show because I think that's when, like, it turnedâ the character of New York City into the portraiture. you know, that little, the very sweet beginning of the season with the sailors. And then we were all trying to still adjust to what had happened. And the show had to sort of catch up with reality a little bit. We couldn't totally ignore it, but we also couldn't talk about it because it was so awful. So it was a, it was a strange time, but I really felt very happy because I thought Michael did magic with, with what he had. Do you know what I mean?
00:13:21
Speaker 1: Yes, I do.
00:13:22
Speaker 3: I do. I think that that show would have the kind of, uh, robustness to be able to handle that. But it really worked well for those two seasons, I thought anyway.
00:13:42
Speaker 2: The thing about Michael is that, you know, he came from regular kind of, you know, sitcom world, Murphy Brown. So like very elevated sitcom, but still sitcom world. But he had this ability to take our show and make it so much like broader in what it could handle, as you're saying, like it didn't have to stay surfacy. And HBO just.
00:14:05
Speaker 1: Allowed us to do that, which was so- Yeah, I mean, that was kind of a miracle.
00:14:09
Speaker 3: Right? Absolutely.
00:14:10
Speaker 2: Like we were in the right place at the right time. And because it was so important to have a kind of idea that New York was continuing and that we were fine- It was, it took on greater importance, it felt like, to be soldiering on. But I think then also because Sarah got pregnant, which also felt very important in our lives, right?
00:14:30
Speaker 1: She really wanted to get pregnant.
00:14:32
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:14:32
Speaker 2: It had been something that Cynthia and Sarah had been discussing for quite some time. And I believe in this episode, Cynthia is also pregnant though. I need to check with her because it's so confusing because she's already had Brady on the show. Right. And she's supposed to be nursing, but it's confusing because I'm, I'm pretty sure, but I don't think people knew that at the time, but whatever it, I think what happened and I was not thinking this way myself in life. Like, I think we were all just like doing our best to keep all the balls in the air. You know what I mean? Like it was so intense, but, But for them, what I think happened, not unlike COVID, like, I don't know if you have friends who had like COVID babies, like people had COVID babies, you know, cause like we were cooped up, but also I think it was, it felt, you know, life-threatening in a way.
00:15:14
Speaker 1: You know, it was, I guess.
00:15:15
Speaker 3: It felt existential, certainly. Yes, yes. It's absolutely existential.
00:15:18
Speaker 1: Yes, yes.
00:15:19
Speaker 2: And I feel like because 9-11 was that way as well very much, if you were in Manhattan, I think both Cynthia and Sarah were like, what are we waiting for? Like, yes, we're on this huge hit show, but at the same time, you know, we need to have babies. We want to have babies. Like this is, we can't have our whole lives be about the show. Right. And Cynthia already had a baby, but then she had another and Sarah had her first, which was amazing. But then we had to take the break, which was so hard, but also this is what's important in life. You know, like you can't not live your life. It's a very hard thing that women go, go through, you know, trying to juggle it, you know?
00:15:55
Speaker 3: Well, I think that, yeah, no, I absolutely agree with that. I mean, obviously I've sort of, I didn't quit the business, but I certainly wandered away.
00:16:01
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:16:02
Speaker 3: And, uh, and, but I've seen so many talented women like have to suffer through that and like deal with the, how do I move to the expansion that I want, but then also have to think about the side long thing of like, how long will that last? And, you know, like I got to grab all the apples while I can kind of thing. Absolutely.
00:16:20
Speaker 2: It's impossible.
00:16:21
Speaker 3: I do feel it's, it's a little bit like, obviously the show has tried to change that for women, first of all, in dialogue. So these women kind of talking the way that maybe only gay men talk to then, and then the show going on and showing these women in a more mature phase of life. I think, you know, same thing for queer people. Like it was the first, I was so honored to be on the show, even though the blow drop, I was so honored to be on the show and not be the butt of a joke. And to be the punchline as a queer person, because that's obviously what ended up happening through all of, you know, history of television. They're always like, oh, don't be like this guy or this one's a mess or a fool. He always says the silly unimportant things. And it was just kind of nice that they were honoring that. And also it was like, you know, Michael had found love as well. So I think he was he was in an optimist phase.
00:17:08
Speaker 2: Definitely.
00:17:09
Speaker 3: He wanted that to show. And I was like, oh, I'm so glad that he's written that for these characters, particularly because all of the women were still.
00:17:16
Speaker 2: Like, oh, we got to find.
00:17:17
Speaker 1: Definitely.
00:17:17
Speaker 2: It was so nice for Stanford to find such a catch.
00:17:21
Speaker 1: It was amazing.
00:17:22
Speaker 2: And then what I love in this episode, which I. Like a lot of season five, I'm like, whoa, what is happening? Like, I don't remember the storylines at all. I remember filming, right? I remember things behind the scenes, but I don't remember the storylines. And so to see this entire episode, this one that we were going to talk about, Critical Condition, it's called Carrie's a Mess. It's so interesting. And when I had I had some of our writers on who aren't credited here, but they talked about how they had really in the writer's room been focusing on what we need to have Carrie be single for a while and really try to deal with herself, which is harder than it seems. It's quite the struggle and super fascinating. And I love because Stanford has been so much her sidekick since. in a different way than we are the whole time. Right. And also like struggling in kind of the adorable way that Willie did, like where he would, you know, self deprecating jokes in the beginning, but also like you really were on his side, you know, so much, right. Like he's kind of like the unsung hero in, in so many ways. So it was so amazing to have you just show up like, and be like his, you're, you're like a, you're like a trophy boyfriend, but also you're sweet, right. You don't, I'm saying like you have this sweet and also you're honest. Like the fact that you're just like, oh yeah, it's not very modern. You're just like, oh God, he's cute and sweet, but also honest. Like it's, it's so fascinating. And that's also the, I think the joy of Michael's writing is he can do so much like so quickly.
00:18:52
Speaker 3: Yeah. But he did it so little. I mean, it really like he, I remember him saying to me, cause I remember being like, Oh, I'm on the show, but I just say one thing, you know, like, and he said to me, it's harder to do what you're doing and stand in the scene and not have anything to say. Oh, or listen in one scene. Cause like I had to laugh at Willie's joke that he makes at the, that wedding dance. And, like Michael was like, brilliant. That was it. He's like, that's really hard.
00:19:14
Speaker 2: It's really hard.
00:19:15
Speaker 3: Great.
00:19:15
Speaker 2: You know, it's so true.
00:19:17
Speaker 3: I found this, but I did really learn those that, that, that it is hard to stand in a scene and be present when it's not about you. And you're like the cameras in there. And you know, it was, it was tough, but I was like, okay, I can do this. I got it.
00:19:29
Speaker 2: Now when, so you come on and do they say to you like, oh, you're going to stay your Willie's boyfriend, your Stanford's boyfriend. Like what, what, how did they, No.
00:19:38
Speaker 3: It was told to me that I would be in two episodes.
00:19:40
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:19:41
Speaker 3: And then it turned into like multiple seasons. And I just kept like, it just kept giving. I don't know. It was like Christmas. That's so nice.
00:19:48
Speaker 2: Still another person. And were you, was it scheduling difficulties? Were you also doing plays? Like, was there difficulty?
00:19:57
Speaker 3: No, I think I, it all worked out really well. I mean, the thing is, is like, as an actor, like I always did really big things that ended up in lots of, you know, publications and stuff. It looked like I was busy all the time. I was sitting around a lot.
00:20:10
Speaker 2: That's perfect. That's beautiful.
00:20:12
Speaker 3: I love it. I love it. I took advantage of all the nap time I had and stuff and obviously auditions, but, um, I hate auditions.
00:20:20
Speaker 2: So do I. So do I.
00:20:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're awful. But I, uh, I didn't have anything to worry about. And then like, I think right after Sex and the City, I got a Paula Vogel play that Mark, uh, Mark Brokaw directed down at the Vineyard Theater and Cynthia came and saw it.
00:20:37
Speaker 2: Amazing.
00:20:38
Speaker 3: That kind of stuff. And then I did like something in, in the Hamptons and Sarah and Michael came to see that. So, you know, it just, it just ended up that there was like a gap in my, Perfect.
00:20:49
Speaker 2: It worked out perfectly.
00:20:49
Speaker 3: Which was great because I could just sort of like go into the TV fantasy, you know.
00:20:52
Speaker 2: Love it. And one thing that I think someone brought up, the episode where you first came on, you know, I have Instagram for the podcast and people ask questions. They were like, what happens with the relationship? Like, did we ever explain what happens? Like, or you guys just.
00:21:09
Speaker 3: This is another story.
00:21:10
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:21:11
Speaker 3: So I was supposed to be in the film. Oh. The film was supposed to start with Willie's and my wedding. Oh, no. And you're supposed to think it was big and Sarah. And at that point, I was in London. I was doing an opera at like the, I don't know, somewhere. I don't know. But I was doing like a big thing in London. And I got a call. I think it was Melfi. And he was like, look, we got a call from the studio. And they don't want, and this is going to be the name of my biography. They don't want tertiary characters. Oh. And I was like, oh. So I think in the film, there's like, I'm on the guest list.
00:21:50
Speaker 1: You are?
00:21:51
Speaker 3: I'm on Carrie's guest list. It shows in the scene. Apparently, I've heard this.
00:21:54
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it myself.
00:21:55
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. So it never got really resolved, but there's lore.
00:22:00
Speaker 2: Wow. Okay, let's just slow down for a second. So we're talking about the first film.
00:22:06
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:07
Speaker 2: And you and Stanford are supposed to be getting married. And it's like a fake out.
00:22:12
Speaker 3: You're supposed to be at a wedding. Yeah, it's a big fake out. Thinking like, oh, they're finally getting married. And it's actually Stanford and Marcus.
00:22:19
Speaker 1: Oh, my God.
00:22:20
Speaker 3: Yeah. So, of course, that was disappointing that that didn't happen.
00:22:24
Speaker 2: Heartbreaking. I'm so sorry. Why did those new line executives say that? Darn it.
00:22:30
Speaker 3: I have to say, you know, like it seems very obvious to me that Stanford would have ended up with Antony.
00:22:37
Speaker 1: You think so? Because I thought you made more sense.
00:22:40
Speaker 2: I'm going to be in so much trouble for a second.
00:22:42
Speaker 3: I watched all the episodes. I started with the one you asked me to. I watched all the episodes and I watched their back and forth. And I just thought as an audience member, I was like, they're going to end up together. Wow. That was my feeling. And that's after having watched it and been the boyfriend. Wow.
00:22:55
Speaker 2: Wow.
00:22:56
Speaker 3: Wow.
00:22:56
Speaker 2: That's really interesting. I mean, maybe I'll feel that way too. But like for me, I remember when we did the second movie and we did their wedding, which really I think was like Michael needed to get some wedding ya-ya's out because it was like so over the top. We filmed that wedding for so unbelievably long. We got in so much trouble. Liza Minnelli was there. There were swans, you know, it was like, we couldn't drag Michael out.
00:23:18
Speaker 3: How many times do you get to say that in your life?
00:23:20
Speaker 2: I know, totally.
00:23:21
Speaker 1: Liza Minnelli and swans.
00:23:22
Speaker 2: I know you never get to, but the reason I remember the swans is because everyone was afraid they were going to like hurt people because they had to just swim like that little, like, you know, lazy river that they made for them.
00:23:32
Speaker 1: In inside the soundstage.
00:23:33
Speaker 2: It was so crazy, that thing. Like, how did they let us do any of this?
00:23:37
Speaker 3: How?
00:23:38
Speaker 2: But we overdid ourselves and they tried to cut time off the end of our shoot. And Michael Patrick was like.
00:23:44
Speaker 1: You can't cut time.
00:23:45
Speaker 2: These scenes are important. And they said, no one will notice. These were the New Line executives, right? Not the HBO executives. And they said to Michael Patrick King, no one will notice. Oh, that was not a pretty conversation. We all could hear the conversation. That's how loud it was. He had to say, like, our fans notice everything, which 30 years later, I think we can be pretty sure of at this point.
00:24:09
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
00:24:10
Speaker 2: Yes. But I do. It's interesting to me because when I think of Anthony and Stanford, I feel like it's a little hard to be objective, of course, because Willie is so different from Stanford, right? And Mario is kind of different from Anthony, but not as different as Willie is from Stanford. But Stanford's so sweet. Like, there's such a sweetness about him, which is what's so wonderful about your character.
00:24:34
Speaker 1: Like, the sweetness.
00:24:35
Speaker 2: You're like, oh, look, he got a sweet guy. This is so perfect. He doesn't have to, likeâ be tougher or whatever like put on a tough facade whereas with Anthony there is like that repartee that's kind of like edgy and whatever which is more like Willie was in life right like Willie could be very like acerbic and you know witty but like cutting wit you know like he would he would like get to the.
00:25:01
Speaker 3: Root of what he was very sharp and very funny right like I mean his friends were like all the comedians and like so obviously he was like you know he just like Absolutely.
00:25:10
Speaker 2: So fast, so fast. And like, you know, one time I was on a plane, I was going to this benefit in Vegas with one of my friends for Ben Affleck's Congo. He has a whole charity in the Democratic Republic of Congo. So they say, oh, you're going to fly on like the MGM plane or some plane like from Vegas.
00:25:31
Speaker 1: I don't know, some private plane.
00:25:32
Speaker 2: So I get on the plane. There's Willie because Willie is a very good gambler. which makes perfect sense.
00:25:37
Speaker 3: Right.
00:25:38
Speaker 2: And so Willie and I, I was like, Oh my God. So we had the crazy weekend. We stayed in like these huge suites with pool tables and whatnot. And then I think Willie won, but he didn't win the whole thing. And this other guy won this like huge stack of money. And then we were flying back and we, we took really silly pictures of him, like, like licking the money. Like he's so funny. I mean, obviously talk about him as though he's here. And of course we wish that he was.
00:26:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's hard. It's really heartbreaking.
00:26:07
Speaker 1: It's so hard. Yeah, it's so hard.
00:26:09
Speaker 2: Okay, so the fans want to know what happened. So we can't really tell them other than that it's New Line's executive's fault.
00:26:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's the real story was just the tertiary character thing, which, you know. is going to stay with me until the day I die. It's really, it's a great story.
00:26:26
Speaker 2: It's a knife to the heart though. It's a knife to the heart because it would have been so, so sweet to see you guys getting married.
00:26:33
Speaker 3: I have a question for you though, because this might, might apply to you, which is that when, when the show was actually airing, people kept saying to me and getting messages to me saying he would never end up with someone like you. And the truth in real life was that I was dating a bald Jewish guy. And like you sort of, I've wondered if you've had the same sort of questions from people because it's a bit of a similar situation.
00:26:56
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:26:57
Speaker 3: I mean, I think at first. I was the brown eyed one.
00:27:06
Speaker 1: You know, who looks like us. We could all play siblings somewhere.
00:27:10
Speaker 2: And, you know, I think, but also I feel like because the Trey relationship with Charlotte was so kind of torturous for so long, I think the fans were like, oh God, yeah, she's got to get out of that.
00:27:22
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
00:27:22
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:27:23
Speaker 1: So I think there was some relief.
00:27:24
Speaker 2: And I just, because Evan comes in these episodes that you also show up in, And he is such a breath of fresh air.
00:27:31
Speaker 1: You know, it's like quite powerful.
00:27:34
Speaker 2: I had forgotten. It's really interesting. Like he really came in so strong and present, you know, because he also doesn't have a lot to do in the beginning. kind of, you know, similar to you. Like, and it is really hard. I felt this way the first season, like Charlotte took some time for them to kind of figure out what they wanted me to do. And it took some time for Michael to figure out what he wanted me to do. And I'd have to be in those scenes. You're, you're like super present. You have to be extra present when you don't have lines, you know?
00:28:04
Speaker 1: And it is hard.
00:28:05
Speaker 2: And I think it's hard partly because You have no idea. Like it's all in the editor's hand, you know, like you could be a big part of the scene or a really small part of the scene, depending on how they want to cut it together.
00:28:17
Speaker 3: Yeah. I remember finding that being so weird because you have an idea of what's happening in the scene as you're doing it. And then I would watch it and be like, oh, the balance of that is completely different than I would have thought it was going to be. And I remember finding that quite a charming thing because it's like you can only know when you're the person inside the TV set, that that's actually what's happening.
00:28:36
Speaker 2: Absolutely true.
00:28:37
Speaker 3: And it's so different to the page that how it ends up in real life. Absolutely true. I remember really loving that though. It's true. I had no idea that was going to happen. And reactions of things where I was like, I'm not going to be in that part of the scene. And then all of a sudden, like a reaction that I did or something was like a big part of what happened. Definitely.
00:28:52
Speaker 2: Definitely. And I think for me, I always felt like that was really affirming, right? Because you, sometimes when you think you're not a big part of the scene, you're like really free.
00:29:00
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:29:03
Speaker 1: You know, because the camera's not like in your face or whatever.
00:29:06
Speaker 2: And then you're like, oh, that is good when I'm relaxed. I should work towards that, right? Also, I want to say here that we had two amazing editors, Wendy Stanzler and Michael Barenbaum. Michael ended up doing the movies, I believe, and just like that, like we love him.
00:29:34
Speaker 1: And Wendy was amazing.
00:29:35
Speaker 2: So part of the success and joy when we watch it, we talk about the writers. is also the editing, you know, cause it can make or break.
00:29:43
Speaker 1: Especially in comedy.
00:29:45
Speaker 3: Editing and comedy are like, you know, the editors have to be like, have that great sense of humor in the comic. Cause they're, they know when to make the strike happen. And I think They obviously were terrific at it because I watched it. I remember being like, I don't remember the show being as funny as it is now. It's like extremely funny. But I had this theory that like, I think Charlotte is like the, you're like the person that they can do penance to, you know? You have this face that is like, And even when Charlotte's distressed, we know she's going to be okay because even her face can't look upset for too long. You know, it's like we're not convinced that Charlotte's going to be upset for too long because her face won't even make the face of being upset too long. You know what?
00:30:27
Speaker 1: I think that's editing.
00:30:28
Speaker 3: There's such a beauty about it.
00:30:28
Speaker 2: You're so sweet. I do think that's editing though.
00:30:30
Speaker 3: Maybe, but I think it's just, it's how it comes across. And then you end up being like this person that they all sort of like, am I still good enough to get your love? And you're like, yeah, it's fine. And it's very sweet because the three girls are sort of gathering around the light of Charlotte. You know what I mean?
00:30:43
Speaker 2: That's so sweet, Sean. I don't know if that's true, but that's adorable. I'm going to take that and keep it in my heart that you said that. It's so, so sweet. I love that. I don't know if any of that is true, but I love it very much. I do feel when I watch back, first of all, it is funnier than I remember, right? And weird moments are funny. Oh, really?
00:31:07
Speaker 3: It's a weird show.
00:31:08
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's really all over the place. And we were so kind of.
00:31:12
Speaker 1: bold, you know what I mean?
00:31:14
Speaker 2: We didn't fit in like in into a, you know, that was the joy of HBO, they just let us be however we were going to be you didn't have to be like a sitcom or a you know, whatever. But I also feel sometimes with my face and my being, You know, I'm like, wow, what am I doing there? Like, it's super interesting. But I just remember trying to, you know, like, please, Michael, you know, like we all loved Michael so much and we wanted to please Michael. And I felt like Michael kind of. you know, shaped me and brought me along so much. Right. Because they didn't know who Charlotte was. And, you know, he did, he's come on the podcast many times and he will come back, but, you know, he talks about like.
00:31:55
Speaker 1: Oh, and then suddenly I realized, oh yes, we can do that.
00:31:57
Speaker 2: You know? And, and because he included us so much in the process, it was just a, like one in a million type you know, experience.
00:32:08
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying?
00:32:09
Speaker 3: Like, it was really, I loved being on set with you guys when I'd get to see those conversations happen, particularly between the director, but when it was Michael, that there was such a, like a deep conversation about what's happened. Like Sarah would be like, no, I made that face then. And I don't want to do that again. And he, you know, all the discussions were so well thought out and, And it was clear that it was like your involvement is absolutely critical to this.
00:32:35
Speaker 2: So wonderful.
00:32:36
Speaker 3: Do you remember there was one scene? I think it was us. It may have been the book launch party.
00:32:42
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:32:43
Speaker 3: But like. Michael came over and like, like would say a line into your ear and like be like, say it. And the other actors wouldn't know it. Like that was so lively and magical. And you're just like, thank you for making this whole experience. Like, you know, theatrical in a way for me, it's like, it's just bubbling with life. And I've really appreciated his way of doing that and getting to watch you guys do your work.
00:33:05
Speaker 2: Do you remember the really, really long dinner party at, with Petrovsky?
00:33:11
Speaker 3: Yeah. Of course, because like, do you know, it's my dream in the world to meet Varyshnikov. Like, come on.
00:33:16
Speaker 2: Totally, totally. What was it like for you?
00:33:19
Speaker 3: Whenever the camera stopped, like I would go sit next to him and he actually wanted to talk to me because I'd done Fosse and.
00:33:25
Speaker 2: All this kind of stuff.
00:33:26
Speaker 3: We were like talking about like, he was telling me about how, you know, he was at a certain age. He should have been able to just like leap to the bathroom. But he was like, I was in so much pain at a very young age that I would have to crawl every morning to the bathroom. And it wasn't until I did my warmup that I could like get up and actually appear as Baryshnikov because my body was in such pain. I was like, of course, like I, that's why I didn't, you know, keep dancing after 27. Like I would, I was like, what's the salary like, but you know, it wasn't something that I was, I wasn't running to do like dance anymore. And that's why, but he was, it was just like, what a dream. And I, you know, it was a big deal to like call my mom and tell her that I was on Sex and the City or that I got to start like a starting like lead in a Broadway show. But to tell her that I met Baryshnikov was like, she was, you know, over the moon about that. It was really cool.
00:34:16
Speaker 2: Do you remember him playing the piano?
00:34:18
Speaker 3: No. I am trying to remember. I sort of remember a piano being in there, but it was like, oh, no, I do. He did, right? You mean between takes. Yeah, he did.
00:34:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he did. I think, I was trying to remember when it was, but like he has such the melancholy brooding element that just cannot... leave, at least from.
00:34:38
Speaker 1: What I observed or whatever. And so sometimes we were just like, please, please, yes, play the piano.
00:34:43
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
00:34:44
Speaker 1: Like find an outlet, you know, it was like being in another world.
00:34:50
Speaker 3: Yeah. He's really intense.
00:34:51
Speaker 2: Really intense.
00:34:52
Speaker 3: But it was, that was the nice thing about talking to him about dance. Cause he lit up a little bit and like that head, the heaviness went away. I'm not saying I helped Brezhnekov on set, but I did.
00:35:01
Speaker 2: No, you did.
00:35:01
Speaker 1: You totally did. Because all of us were like, what did we talk to him about?
00:35:04
Speaker 3: Oh my God.
00:35:05
Speaker 2: What You know what I mean? Because, I mean, Sarah and he already were, you know, they were already synced in with each other, but the rest of us didn't.
00:35:13
Speaker 1: We didn't know what to do.
00:35:15
Speaker 2: Like, it was panicking.
00:35:15
Speaker 3: It's intimidating, you know?
00:35:17
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:35:17
Speaker 3: It's like the White Knights and, like, the Muppet Show. All of it. He's, like, legendary to me.
00:35:23
Speaker 2: I mean, so legendary to all of us. And it's so incredible that we got him on the show. Wow.
00:35:28
Speaker 3: I know.
00:35:29
Speaker 2: I still can't.
00:35:29
Speaker 3: I know.
00:35:30
Speaker 2: I think Sarah just begged him.
00:35:31
Speaker 3: Did that really happen?
00:35:32
Speaker 2: I know.
00:35:32
Speaker 1: That's how I feel, too. And now that we're almost at the part of watching, I'm just like.
00:35:36
Speaker 2: Like, and also I feel like I was so overwhelmed at the.
00:35:39
Speaker 1: Time that I don't even know. I don't even know.
00:35:42
Speaker 2: Also like when you have someone that legendary, so awkward to know, are you supposed to talk to them about all the things that mean so much to you? Are you not supposed to?
00:35:52
Speaker 1: Like, it's so weird, you know?
00:35:54
Speaker 3: Well, I felt that way with all of you guys.
00:35:55
Speaker 2: That's the thing.
00:35:56
Speaker 3: No, I genuinely did. Like I was like, you know, you're like, you're coming on the show in such a late stage and there's so much momentum behind it. And I know that you guys have been doing this and seeing guest stars come on and leave and totally forgotten them. And I was like, how present do I, you know, how present do I need to be here? Like, do I want to like try and have like, like substantial conversations, but it turned out that like there was enough in the scenes and like, I got to have like a full experience anyway, because obviously there's like waiting and all that kind of stuff. There are really beautiful moments, like listening to Frances Sternhagen. I was in a dressing room right behind her. And so I would listen to her practice her lines over and over and over. Wow. And I was like, again, what's a girl like me doing in a place like this? I just couldn't believe that I'm like, it's so legendary. Those kind of little moments. Absolutely. Like I've got a career just like I taught Gwen Verdon how to use a cell phone.
00:36:49
Speaker 2: Like amongst all the.
00:36:51
Speaker 3: Things is like Frances Sternhagen sitting with Baryshnikov, like all these little things that nobody saw. They're very proud. Well, they saw me sit next to Baryshnikov, but. You know, they're little private things that are like, these are like Angela Lansbury gave me like a drink that she wasn't going to drink.
00:37:04
Speaker 2: Like, you know, big to me, a big deal.
00:37:05
Speaker 3: I worked with her too. You know, like you're like, this is crazy.
00:37:08
Speaker 2: She called me Starshine.
00:37:11
Speaker 3: Oh. So sweet. And it's the thing. You take it. It's like your mantra. So you're proud of it.
00:37:16
Speaker 1: Definitely.
00:37:17
Speaker 3: This is my thing. I love it.
00:37:18
Speaker 2: They are magical moments to get to be around people that, A, we have seen and admired, but also just like Franny, just a genius actress, like just genius.
00:37:29
Speaker 1: And the fact that we could.
00:37:31
Speaker 2: incorporate them into the show and yourself, like people from Broadway, like what a fascinating mix it was.
00:37:37
Speaker 3: You know? Another friend of mine on the show is Lynn Cohn.
00:37:40
Speaker 2: Oh, Lynn. I know I'm at the part where she's like really present.
00:37:46
Speaker 1: And I mean, just amazing.
00:37:48
Speaker 3: Isn't it? She was in, when I was telling you about the baby and Johnny, that's, I'd worked with her in that. She was like the grandparent in that.
00:37:55
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
00:37:55
Speaker 3: And I can tell you a story about, Lynn Cohn reminded me so much of my high school girlfriend. When she was bored backstage, she would just get into stuff. And she like found some makeup in an old handbag that was a prop and started putting it on her face.
00:38:08
Speaker 2: Oh my God.
00:38:09
Speaker 3: She was so much trouble.
00:38:10
Speaker 2: She was.
00:38:11
Speaker 3: She really was.
00:38:12
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:38:12
Speaker 3: I used to get on the bus on 9th and 10th Avenue, like to go somewhere and Lynn would be on the bus. We'd like just chat the whole way down to his face. stitch like she really was.
00:38:21
Speaker 2: She was perfect she was so different from her character Oh, so different.
00:38:25
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:38:25
Speaker 2: Cause her character, like at the, the, the part, the episode that we're in, she just glares at Cynthia, like judging her, which I mean, Miranda, sorry, but you know, and, and that was the, that was what we needed.
00:38:35
Speaker 3: Right.
00:38:36
Speaker 2: And like, do you remember when she put the, the Mary Magdalene or whatever, like the Jesus, what a trip and a half, but like, she was so not that way, you know, and so a perfect, perfect, um, match for Cynthia, like to be, you know, with Cynthia and, and, and Cynthia's Miranda's world. you know, of course everyone's bled together in my mind now, but like just magical that we, that we had her as well. Like, like the same level of the Franny nest, you know what I'm saying? And Franny also completely opposite from bunny, like not a bunny bone in her body. But when I watched the scene where she's so mean to me, you know, Oh, it hurts.
00:39:14
Speaker 3: It hurts.
00:39:15
Speaker 1: She was so good at it.
00:39:16
Speaker 3: You know, I just watched the, uh, yesterday. I think it was the one where she comes into the apartment after you think it's yours.
00:39:21
Speaker 2: And, Mortifying.
00:39:23
Speaker 3: This is Chanel.
00:39:24
Speaker 1: I know, mortifying.
00:39:25
Speaker 2: When I watch myself with her, I think I'm... What I see... acting-wise, is that I'm just a bit starstruck. Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm not... Like, for instance... I'm mad when she comes in, but I feel like I should have been madder. Charlotte should have been madder. But it's Franny, and I love her so much. You know what I'm saying? Like, I look forward to any Franny day. She'd come in with her Birkenstock. You know what I mean? She'd come in. She'd be gardening in the morning and come in.
00:39:52
Speaker 1: Like, she was just a joy.
00:39:54
Speaker 2: And I can somewhat see that in my face. I mean, obviously I'm nitpicking, but, like, I should have been probably madder at her. But I think also Charlotte is, like, intimidated and still wants her love, kind of.
00:40:08
Speaker 3: That's what I see. Is it? Yeah, when you watch it. I see that Charlotte has just got this indomitable cheer. She's like, I am cheerful. That's what I do. Yeah. And so I can get through this. And so every, like, sometimes you'll kind of stumble off. It's like falling off of one high heel, but you're like, get back up again. You know, it's like never, never totally tumbling over.
00:40:30
Speaker 1: It's just something.
00:40:32
Speaker 3: It's just something indomitable. That's why I think that the other girls are sort of like, can you, if you can love us, then the rest of the world can love us too. It's got that, you have that balancing nature.
00:40:42
Speaker 2: That's nice.
00:40:43
Speaker 3: I think it's really lovely.
00:40:44
Speaker 2: That's so nice. I did this movie one time after Sex and the City and And I had this wonderful director. He was Irish. He was great. And he said to me, it was a movie about mental health issues. And like my sister had schizophrenia. And so it was about like families trying to take care of mental health things in a way that is pretty much impossible. And he said to me, I don't want you to smile.
00:41:08
Speaker 1: And I was like, what?
00:41:11
Speaker 2: Oh, how, how is that possible? So he told me, I don't want you to smile because I think he felt like I smiled too much, just like in general.
00:41:19
Speaker 1: So, and my character was not happy, right? She was very unhappy.
00:41:23
Speaker 2: So at one point, my kids in the movie had been away from me and then they come back.
00:41:27
Speaker 1: And of course I smiled and he was like, no, you smile.
00:41:29
Speaker 2: And I'm like, come on, I gotta smile for the kids. I'll never forget it.
00:41:33
Speaker 1: Cause I was like, oh, what? Don't, don't, don't smile.
00:41:37
Speaker 3: Oh Lord.
00:41:37
Speaker 1: Oh, But it was a good note. You know what I'm saying?
00:41:40
Speaker 3: It is a good note, but it can also turn into an existential crisis. Let's be honest. It really was. It's like one of those things that's like going to just haunt you.
00:41:46
Speaker 2: It did.
00:41:46
Speaker 3: Is that all right?
00:41:47
Speaker 2: Yes, totally.
00:41:48
Speaker 1: But I mean, this is why we act, right? Do different things.
00:41:52
Speaker 2: You guys, this is so much fun that we are going to have to have a part two. So join us later in the week on Are You a Charlotte?