July 6, 2026
Should Charlotte have given Carrie the money??? With Amy Harris... (S4 E16 "Ring A Ding Ding")
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RSS Feed This is the episode that has spurred endless debates and controversy.Should Charlotte have given Carrie the money, should Carrie have been so emotional and upset over it, is mixing friendship and money ever a good idea???!!!
Writer Amy Harris reveals that this episode caused the biggest disagreement ever amongst the writers of the series, and trust us, we get it!
Plus, find out the line that Amy Harris feels is the most significant within the episode.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
00:00:01
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are you a Charlotte?
00:00:08
Speaker 2: This is exciting everybody. Finally, finally we have Amy V. Harris, one of.
00:00:16
Speaker 1: Our glorious, glorious writers. She has finally joined us on Are You a Charlotte because we have gotten to our first episode. Now we're going to go through the history. But she was in our world for a long time before she had her first episode. But her first episode with her name on the script is Ring It Ing Ding. It aired on January twenty seventh, two thousand and two, which is interesting, And Michael Patrick was just on last week and we were talking about how in the so we're on the air in the summer of two thousand and one. Obviously it's leading towards nine to eleven. Yes, and then they had separated the episodes into like a second season, yes, and no one really remembers.
00:00:57
Speaker 2: Why do you remember? So?
00:00:59
Speaker 3: I think we did eighteen episodes that season season four. I think I think they decided instead of running eighteen through the summer, which would be a very long season for an HBO show, that they would split it up, and so we ended up doing I believe the first ten were in the summer, and the second the eight were in January.
00:01:23
Speaker 2: That makes sense, that's interesting.
00:01:25
Speaker 1: I don't really remember that as being like something different that they did, and obviously something that they would be continuing on doing up until this day where they separate seasons, which is interesting because I remember, I don't know if this is probably silly, but I was always a little annoyed when they did that because it was almost like they got another season, but we were just paid the same.
00:01:48
Speaker 3: Yes, we did season four and then they split it up and made it season four A and four.
00:01:52
Speaker 1: P, right, and then season six. We worked that whole solid year and it was two seasons. That's right, bonus whatever you call it.
00:02:00
Speaker 2: Different things, yes, right, but you don't get the boneus exactly exactly right.
00:02:04
Speaker 1: And I mean, in some ways it's kind of silly to even think about it now, right because obviously it was all incredibly wonderful and we were richly, you know, paid for it all.
00:02:14
Speaker 2: Eventually it took a while. I think it was just the wild wild West.
00:02:18
Speaker 3: They know exactly how to do that, and I think probably when they started thinking eighteen episodes over the summer is more, we we wouldn't have finished.
00:02:27
Speaker 2: Till the fall. That's a good point.
00:02:29
Speaker 3: So I think they were probably like, yes, let's take advantage of thus and split it.
00:02:33
Speaker 2: But I know that is wild wild West on that one, I think will the West.
00:02:36
Speaker 1: But you know what else I think was happening. I think some of what was happening was that David Chase was taking a long hiatus. Yes, because at a certain point they pushed him to go back, and he felt like the season suffered, that he hadn't had time to really, you know, just state his ideas and whatnot, so that he wanted to take a longer time. And it had been that they would kind of counterprogram us. Yes, right, so then they.
00:03:01
Speaker 2: Were like, oh, well, let's just chump but.
00:03:03
Speaker 3: Yes, we can put Tex and the city in twice and people will be thrilled and they'll wait for sopranos that way.
00:03:08
Speaker 2: I didn't, that's right. I forgot.
00:03:10
Speaker 3: He was sort of the first person who sort of, I as somebody who's such a rule follower. I had never seen that before where it was like, oh, no, you just deliver year to year to year to year. And I think he really was the first person who said I'm delivering when it's ready.
00:03:25
Speaker 2: Right, which is pretty amazing. And now, of course with streaming, it's all insanity. Yes, it's all that.
00:03:30
Speaker 1: No one does eighteen that I know of, expt. I guess wait, I mean just the pit do they don't do eighteen?
00:03:35
Speaker 2: They do? They do thirteen? Yeah, twelve or thirteen? It almost like a lot. We do eight. My show, we do eight, Yes, we have.
00:03:43
Speaker 3: I launched a show June tenth and we did eight episodes.
00:03:47
Speaker 2: Why eight? How did they come up with that? I don't know.
00:03:52
Speaker 3: I know that we were a couple of years ago on Amazon you would do ten and then they moved it to eight, and I think my gut is they wanted to. I don't know if we've said we need ten, if they would have said, okay, great, But we started building the seasons to be eight.
00:04:09
Speaker 2: Got it.
00:04:10
Speaker 1: Did the budget change when it went from ten to eight or is it rough?
00:04:13
Speaker 2: No?
00:04:14
Speaker 3: That's a way is that you're amortizing over eight instead of ten, so sets have to they cost more, and so it gets a little trickier that way. But I think at the end of the day, they're spending two episodes less money.
00:04:26
Speaker 2: So it's still our world.
00:04:29
Speaker 1: Ooh ooh, it's crazy different. It's so amazing that you're just a big old showrunner.
00:04:35
Speaker 2: Now, Wow, I know. I really it's a job I love, I really really I love it. I feel you're very well suited for it.
00:04:43
Speaker 3: I think it's a strange skill set of creative and practical, and I think some people are very practical and some people are very creative. And for me, the fun of it is figuring out how to merge those two things the main time.
00:05:00
Speaker 2: I love it.
00:05:00
Speaker 3: Those puzzle pieces are the best for me. Like you, how am I doing this?
00:05:04
Speaker 2: Was this always your dream? I don't even think I understood this could be a dream. You know.
00:05:08
Speaker 3: When I meet young writers now and they say their goal is to become a showrunner, I think, how would you have even known to know that was something?
00:05:17
Speaker 2: I loved?
00:05:19
Speaker 3: The business, I mean, my first real I had one job before Sex and the City and TV, which was Darren Show, Central Park West.
00:05:29
Speaker 2: And I back up, how did you meet Darren? So?
00:05:32
Speaker 3: Darren's little brother and I went to nursery school together. I love it, and our parents had been friends forever. We grew up in the same neighborhood. We had beach condos near each other, and I hadn't seen him in years. She was older than me, and I was working at Vanity Fair magazine and he had done Melrose nine or two and zero, and I was in awe and he was so kind and so generous to me, and we were talking on the beach and he told me his next show is about editorial assistance at a magazine, which is what I was doing. And he said, can I take you to lunch when I come to New York next and pick your brain? And I my head almost popped off.
00:06:12
Speaker 2: I was so excited.
00:06:15
Speaker 3: So we had this long, great conversation, and then I wrote him a letter and said, I don't know if you're going to shoot this in New York or not, because he wasn't sure. Things didn't shoot in New York except for Law and Order at the time. But if it shoots in New York and there's any opportunity for me to come work for you, I would love it. And his assistant decided not to come from LA to New York, and I became his assistant.
00:06:38
Speaker 2: And how long did that last?
00:06:40
Speaker 3: So Central Park West was on for a season and I was in the writer's room taking notes and doing everything assistant related and then that ended, and I was like, oh gosh, what's next, and he's like, I bought And Candice had been around because she'd been doing a piece on him, and he said, I bought, can this his columns? And I'm going to write the pilot and I hope you'll stay on working for me. And then he was debating whether to sell it to ABC or HBO, and Jamie Charzis, who ended up becoming one of my closest friends, was like, I'm not even sure we can title it Sex and the City and he's like, I need to go to HBO, right, And then we shot the pilot and that was thrilling and so New Yorky, and like I was like, I can't believe I'm getting to do this in New York City. Yeah, and then it got picked up. But that first season, you remember, we had no idea if it was going to be anything.
00:07:41
Speaker 2: We don't know what it was like.
00:07:42
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, this is fun, and I don't know if it's going to get a season two. And I never worked in TV besides one show that hadn't gotten a season two, so I was like.
00:07:51
Speaker 2: My parents were panicking. They were like, you went for like a job.
00:07:55
Speaker 3: With you know, all sorts of like perks and benefits and health insure to these like these shows work or don't work and you're unemployed again. But yeah, and then Darren was really wonderful. He's I was very I was sort of living a Carrie Breadshast style life where I wasn't making a lot of money, but I was spending it all on my clothes and going out and shoes. And both Michael Patrick and Darren I think, really supported my desires to kind of move forward. And did I want to produce? Did I want to develop? I wasn't sure. And Michael and I have a debate about this, but I swear I read a script of a freelance script that came in and he said I read it before Michael did. And he came out and he goes, how is it? And I was like, it's okay, it's a rough draft, and he I believe he said to me, like, it's hard. You should try it, and he said I would never have said that, And I was like, whatever I heard was like, you should give it a go and see how challenging the process of writing is. Right. I was like, you know what I do want to see how challenging the process of writing is.
00:09:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I wrote a spec Sex in the City.
00:09:06
Speaker 3: Oh, And I said to Michael, I don't inspect in any way for this to be used on the show, but I would love for you to read it and give me notes and just tell me, like, either you have talent or don't. He was like, I'm never going to say you do or don't have time because he's so amazing and wonderful and like wants the best for you. And he read it. And I had made Samantha falls in love with a woman in my episode, which they ended up using. Yes, I was going to say, maybe you're the origin of this. I was amazing because I just thought that's who she was. She would fall in love with different types of people and be attracted to different types of people, and that felt very real to me. And I knew the draft was at least good enough because Darren came right to me and said, why didn't you let me read it? And I was like, I just thought you'd be too busy and if it was terrible, you would feel the like I knew Michael would be able to sort of walk me through, like why it wasn't working and why it wasn't good, and I didn't want to put two people through having to tell me it was. But yeah, and then Michael offered me a job on the writing staff, and so I moved from producing, which i'd been doing for those first two years, onto the staff.
00:10:17
Speaker 2: And then when you moved on to the staff, what was your first title on the writing staff?
00:10:22
Speaker 3: I think they gave me consulting producer because I wasn't They felt like I'd already been a producer on the show, so they didn't want me to come on as like a story editor.
00:10:32
Speaker 2: But do you at some point have the story editor title? Maybe I did, I feel like you. Maybe I did.
00:10:38
Speaker 3: And part of the reason, you know what I think I did maybe the season I think at the beginning, maybe it was I went from story editor to co producer.
00:10:47
Speaker 2: I guess that makes sense, Yes, that mass that's right.
00:10:57
Speaker 1: Okay, my Hyundai hot take for thispisode, which is called Ring and Ding Ding, I am going to go with the final scene where Charlotte gives the ring to Carrie after all the talk of money and whether friends should lend friends' money, and Carrie gets mad at Charlotte because Charlotte doesn't offer like the others do, and then Charlotte really has this great boundary and says, you know, it's not my job to fix this financial problem that you created for yourself. Then I think we have the most beautiful scene where Charlotte does give her the ring and Carrie says she's going to pay her back, and basically they kind of pledge themselves to each other. That's how I look at it when I see the scene, and I just love it, and I love our work, and I think we feel so connected in that scene, and I think it's such a beautiful ending. And I wish that everyone who posts the memes of her asking for the money would also post the memes of me giving her the ring and us bonding over it. So that's my Hyundai hot take celebrating iconic moments. Bold moves unforgettable style, just like Hende. I want to talk a little bit about what does a story editor do, because I think this is a job title that people don't really think about and I think is kind of important.
00:12:14
Speaker 3: It's really interesting, and I think a story editor is probably very different in every room. I have looked at story editor the way Michael and Darren looked at story editor, which is you're a less experienced writer in a room where everybody's opinions and ideas matter. So you're given some grace in the sense that I think your drafts when they come in, if they're not as sharp and wonderful as a co executive producers drafts, they understand you're less experienced in your learning. But what I never felt in the room was it wasn't a democracy. I mean, at the end of the day, Michael was deciding which stories went and had a very clear idea of what he was chasing. But the fun of our writer's room was that everybody was pitching on sort of an equal level, and then the ideas that sort of bubbled for people were the ones that sort of started to take off. That makes sense, and so I've always sort of looked at those younger levels, like staff writers, story editor, executive story editor as just writers that don't have the same level of experience, but in a writer's room are bringing the same value as someone with a lot more experience in terms of story ideas and had a shape story. And then obviously writers with more experience, and there was unbelievable talent on that room. They're there to sort of help guide those younger writers through the process.
00:13:42
Speaker 2: Got it.
00:13:43
Speaker 1: So if you're so, you're there and you may have less experience, but you're obviously living a life that is going to have rich ideas for the stories. Are you also in some way in charge of overseeing the stories that other people are writing?
00:13:57
Speaker 3: Or no, No, in our I think every room is totally different. But the room that Michael ran has been my template for every room I've run since. You try to figure out like, okay, like I was listening to Julian Elisa's episode and my mother board myself. They came in with three ideas that went right into that episode, and that very obviously became the episode they needed to write. Sometimes that's how it happened. Sometimes it can be Okay, this person, I have five writers, and three of them are writing scripts and two are still in the room, and so this person's writing this next episode. But what Michael always did, which I really loved, is he tried to find he wanted the writer to have like a deep connection to the stories that were being told, which I really thought was like a very beautiful way to kind of make sure I mean, look, every writer who's in a room, that's your hope, right that they connect to the characters, to the stories you like to tell. But he would kind of click into that and know, Okay, this is your app episode coming up. And so then in the room as you were pitching for that episode, you knew it was your episode. You were responsible for keeping the story straight, thinking them through. But you're in this unbelievably supportive room where all these amazing ideas are popping up and notes are being taken, and you're you know, it's like a beautiful pileon of people sort of developing the show with you always said like I always felt like the thing I think that was so beautiful on Sex and the City is you really felt ownership of your episode, but you felt fully like you were not cut a drift to like good.
00:15:36
Speaker 2: Luck, hope you do a good job at your script.
00:15:38
Speaker 3: It was like, so it was this community that was sort of servicing the story and the show, but you got to kind of find your way into the episode in a way that you were encouraged to do.
00:15:50
Speaker 2: That's so nice.
00:15:51
Speaker 1: I mean I obviously felt I mean it was the first show that I was around for this amount of time. Right, But when I was on Melrose, you never saw the writers. You know, it was one of those old fashioned kind of TV sets where the writers were off in a room. It might be in a different place even Yes, and for us, I think this is a known fact. But you know, you guys were part of our lives and part of the day to day of the set, and if it was your episode being filmed, you were on set with us. Yes, I mean almost the whole time, unless you like fell asleep at five am or whatever, which was totally understandable. But you know, did you feel like that was something that was normal or did you know it was special?
00:16:28
Speaker 3: I did not know it was special because I'd never really done this before. In my mind, writers went to set all the time. Michael loved having the writers on set to talk through stuff, and you know, we weren't ripping apart scenes, but a joke could be at it or why do you think this isn't as funny as I'd hoped it would be. He was so collaborative in the process. I mean, my joke was like that show was no Sex in the City for me, because I spent all my days and nights on set, and then Riday was Faturday, and I'd wake up at two on Saturday and I'd get up, you know, and then Monday was five am. Yes, So but I loved that process of just continually being because it also helped you as a writer to see how you guys were finding your character and what you were bringing that sort of inspired some other storytelling idea or device, And so for us that was I loved it. And I think one of the things, you know, that's been hard for me as I've moved as since the pandemic really is that often the other writers aren't on set anymore because you're not shooting in the same city as where you're so like, they don't bring everyone, they don't bring everyone. That is that is that's been for me as a showrunner whose goal is to try to train other people to become showrunners.
00:17:52
Speaker 2: That has been sad for me, really hard.
00:17:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, because you want because if you're not on set, I think it changes you're writing too, right, Like you really understand if I give this person this crazy action, or I give them not enough action, and then there's a twenty minute voiceover, right, like what are they going to happening? Totally so you start learning how to write to the actual reality of shooting, which.
00:18:17
Speaker 2: Yeah the best.
00:18:18
Speaker 1: Sometimes when you read a script, you definitely feel like, Okay, this person is in a room and everything's happening in their mind and they're trying to help people who are reading the script envision it right. So there's a lot of description, and I'm always like, oh, no, you know, because when you get onto the set that sometimes that works. Sometimes that doesn't work, and you never know how attached the writer is or the director is to all of that description on the script page. Yes, but sometimes you need that to help people reading it.
00:18:44
Speaker 2: Well, that's always I think the fine line.
00:18:47
Speaker 3: I sort of look at scripts as novels for the executives, but then you have to create something that actually like gets on its feet for production. So it can be you know, maybe how you write a p to kind of give people the wink wink and let them know what they're supposed to be feeling, because you know an actor will give you that feeling underneath the happy attitude is desperation, but you might have to write that in And I always feel bad because I feel like actors don't necessarily need you to like give them the true men.
00:19:23
Speaker 2: So I often will pull that stuff back once you go to production. Smart smart smart, but it helps with the read.
00:19:29
Speaker 1: So let's talk about your first When you're your first title you know by Amy B.
00:19:34
Speaker 2: Harris came, How nervous were you?
00:19:38
Speaker 3: Well, I was so nervous. I cried for weeks on end as I was writing my script. And I'm not much of a cry I know. I don't think you're crying at all. I mean, I never did it in public, but I would sit at home on the week that I was writing. I was off writing my episode, and I would spend the morning just sort of weeping, thinking I can't fail.
00:19:56
Speaker 2: What if I fail? Oh my God, Like I'm going.
00:19:59
Speaker 3: To fail and I'm going to disappoint the people I care about and a show that I love. So I cried a lot. And when I told Michael that later, he was like, Wow, I had no idea. He's like, you just seemed as cool as a cucumber about everything that was going on, and I was like, I was in a state of absolute terror.
00:20:19
Speaker 2: Wow.
00:20:21
Speaker 3: And I did sort of what I do now, which is I take a lot of long showers to think about story and how I want to tell it and a ton of walks, and I started to think about I suddenly started to realize that the show, to some degree was the Wizard of Oz.
00:20:40
Speaker 2: I like, how you start the episode that way?
00:20:42
Speaker 3: And that is why I ended up starting the episode that way, because it was all about her home, right, So I was thinking about, like, what are quotes about home? And then I was suddenly like, there's no place like home. And then all of a sudden, I started to realize, like Carrie is Dorothy, like Samantha is this like courageous lion?
00:21:01
Speaker 2: That's really funny? Who am I? Oh heart please? So adorable? I never knew this is so cute? Is spreading? I mean in a way, you guys are searching as much for that.
00:21:14
Speaker 3: You actually have those things already and Oz's New York got it. It just started making me very happy to think about those things, and that kind of gave me my opening and my ending. And then I started to relax a little because I had the story right, Like we knew the what our a story was like, we knew.
00:21:33
Speaker 1: What so you knew that this would have to do with her apartment and not being able to afford the down payment and just a little backstory to make sure we're caught up, because this is the point in the show where I don't remember stuff up until now, I remembered a lot. Now I'm like, whoa, what is happening? But it's really it's enjoyable because I'm I'm reliving but also watching like an outsider in certain ways, because I don't remember the storylines a lot.
00:22:01
Speaker 2: I remember the.
00:22:02
Speaker 1: Gist, I guess, but not the details, right like I remember of course the There's a lot of conversation that lives on about the Ring and Me and Carrie and Charlotte and carry And it's interesting because you can take it, you can take pieces of it out of context and it looks one way, but then if you actually look at the whole story, it looks a totally different way.
00:22:21
Speaker 2: Yes, which you know is true a lot of.
00:22:23
Speaker 1: The time, obviously, but it's I think, especially because this is a very unusual thing to be writing about. So with the apartment, just why exactly does Corbett have Like what happened?
00:22:35
Speaker 3: Yes, so when they got engaged, her apartment went from rent stabilized to us they were going to sell it.
00:22:45
Speaker 1: So this is why she's been able to stay there. This whole time for not very much. Seven and fifty dollars a month. Apartment New York is well heard of, and then they have an option to buy the apartment, and then he's like, let's buy the apartment next to it. We'll break through and make a big apartment and this will be our marital home basically, right, and then they break up at the end of the episode before, which is that beautiful fountain, see right, So now she's he's going to sell that second apartment and he basically says, you can buy the apartment from me, and then she starts realizing, like a lot of New yorquim that she spent all her money on shoes.
00:23:22
Speaker 2: Got it?
00:23:22
Speaker 1: So you knew that this is the place in the season that your script would come and so then it's up to you to flesh out.
00:23:29
Speaker 3: Yes, but we work in the room so closely, like so it was like, okay, so what do we want to see from this episode? And where is Charlotte and her story that we can bounce her up against Carrie because they're having very different breakups. Right, one got a beautiful home and was financially secure and this other one is lost her partner and is suddenly realizing like she's made a lot of bad decisions along the way, so we knew that was going to cross. And then the and all of that is being fleshed out in the room, like we're working as a group, we're finding it. And then there was the biggest fights we've ever gotten into. It was this episode. Yes, I mean enormous fights.
00:24:13
Speaker 2: About which party.
00:24:16
Speaker 3: And I was so Michael and I had very similar ideas about money, I guess, which we hadn't and we come from very different backgrounds, so we were like, huh, because we were sort of thinking maybe it was where we came from. But we were sort of like, if you have it and someone needs it, you hand it over and you hope it's alone, but you have to.
00:24:34
Speaker 2: Assume it might not be.
00:24:36
Speaker 3: But like, if you have the money, it's okay, Like hand it over to people. If you have the money, you pay for dinner. If you know next week maybe someone else has the money, they pay for dinner. It got pretty heated because not everyone felt that everyone felt that way got it. So there was a lot of people who felt Charlotte that you don't mix money and friendship, that it is potentially the end of friendships and that it's not come conversations to have and they shouldn't happen. And we were like, and I really appreciated the argument. Like the people who were against the idea were like, if Carrie goes to Charlotte and says, why didn't you offer me the money? I will hate her for the rest of this my life. I will hate her.
00:25:18
Speaker 1: Well, listen, there's people online who pull that clip out when they want to prove that Carrie's a narcissist. Yeah, yeah, I mean that's one of the ones.
00:25:26
Speaker 3: And it is one of those things where it's like you realize she's also like angry at herself that she's in this like difficult situation.
00:25:32
Speaker 2: Yes, and it's at the end of the day.
00:25:36
Speaker 3: She does get the money from Charlotte, obviously, but she was it was more she was like, why did you turn your back on me?
00:25:43
Speaker 1: I get it, like look away right when drink out of the straw.
00:25:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, we did, but totally that was no. Charlotte's very obviously like I'm not going to be part of this.
00:26:04
Speaker 4: Hey, everyone, it's Jesse Tyler ferguson Host of Dinners on Me. If you've been enjoying Kristin Davis on are you to Charlotte. I hope you'll come pull up a chair for our conversation over on my podcast when we had dinner at Rustic Canyon in Santa Monica. We talked about raising kids that causes closest to her heart, and one very unexpected moment when Kristen's daughter discovered that her mom had another job besides, as she says, working for the Elephants. Take a listen.
00:26:32
Speaker 1: We were on a plane and in the road in front of us, someone was watching the movie and Selenaver said, Mommy, that girl on the TV looks like you. Oh that is me, and see that's Cynthia and that's Sarah.
00:26:47
Speaker 2: But she was like, oh, like that was weird.
00:26:50
Speaker 1: I'm sure and then I thought, oh, no, what am I going to do in this movie?
00:26:54
Speaker 4: Well I do so I panic to hear the rest of our conversation with Kristin Davis. Search for Dinner is on me wherever you get your podcasts.
00:27:05
Speaker 1: I remember the scene the day that we shot, the scene where she comes to my apartment and we walk around that table. Yeah, and I remember it because I think there was still ongoing debate about the writing I remember rewriting and rewriting, and after the table read rewriting.
00:27:19
Speaker 2: Yes, and a lot.
00:27:20
Speaker 1: Of stress and worry about how to play it even and her level of anger. And I do think her level of anger because sometimes you do this to your friends you don't mean to, but like your anger comes out of them just because you're so uncomfortable with yourself.
00:27:37
Speaker 2: Yes, but that's how close we are, right, And that's the thing I thought where Michael and I sort of landed, and look, I rewatched and I was like, oh, Carrie, I'm not sure. Like it's a lot, it's a lot.
00:27:47
Speaker 3: It is. That's a crazy decision to go over and be like, I'm angry at you for not offering. Right, I don't want your money, but I'm angry at you for not offering.
00:27:56
Speaker 2: It's like I understand it. And look, I I.
00:28:00
Speaker 3: Look at all the times where I wish i'd sort of said I'm angry about this and didn't. And it did sort of pop the balloon for her of whatever that feeling of like explosion that was going to happen for her. It sort of eased her down. And I don't think she actually expected Charlotte to ever.
00:28:16
Speaker 2: Well, I don't think it was about that. It's not about that. That's just why wouldn't you support me in that moment? Right?
00:28:21
Speaker 1: I Mean, she thinks it's about that, but I don't think it's about that. And that's what I love about that scene is there's just so many layers. But I was also surprised at how hot.
00:28:28
Speaker 2: She comes in.
00:28:29
Speaker 1: I was like, whoa, mama, I know, I know, and she's like moving her hands at me and stuff.
00:28:34
Speaker 2: She's like, I did it. Yeah, you will see how I'm looking at her like I'm pleased. Sometimes.
00:28:41
Speaker 1: I told Michael there was a scene from a couple of weeks ago where I was like unsure of my choice. At the beginning of the scene, I was like, why did I make the choice? Did I even make a choice? What's going on there? Which is you know, sometimes I felt, you know, weren't going to happen. But in this scene, I loved what I did because she does she's so like unworked out on what is going on with her, you know, And.
00:29:05
Speaker 2: Because Aiden's gone and he was a thief, is a very.
00:29:08
Speaker 1: Like like people can complain about Aiden whatever, but he really listened to her like she would have her emotions and have her crazy ups and downs.
00:29:14
Speaker 2: And he would just be like, Okay, okay, you're gonna act a little crazy exactly right.
00:29:19
Speaker 1: So that's gone from her, right, she doesn't have that, and she's alone, and now she's going to lose her apartment, which is a huge deal.
00:29:24
Speaker 2: Obviously I understand it.
00:29:25
Speaker 1: But I love how I'm just looking at her when I'm like, it's not my job, but I look so empathetic to her correct, which I think is why we're able then to end up at the last scene.
00:29:36
Speaker 2: Yes you know, And it's like Charlotte does.
00:29:38
Speaker 1: Have boundaries in ways that the other characters don't always have, which also I didn't fully understand at the time.
00:29:44
Speaker 2: Right, Like I look back, I'm like, well, good for Charlotte.
00:29:46
Speaker 3: I was going to say, it's really a wonderful thing that she was able to say. This is not comfortable for me, and I've seen it go badly, And don't don't ask me to be who I'm not to make you feel like you have a friendship, because I'm here, absolutely present as a friend. Absolutely And that's why I loved your performance in that. Thank thank you so much.
00:30:06
Speaker 1: And I do remember being stressed about it and I remember Sarah and I just walked around that table like for I don't even know how many hours.
00:30:12
Speaker 2: It was a lot.
00:30:14
Speaker 1: But then I love the final scene where I do bring her the ring and it's so sweet and I hadn't really remembered all of it because all of that doesn't make.
00:30:24
Speaker 2: It into the memes.
00:30:26
Speaker 3: Yes, the interesting right, And also when she says, wow, we're alone again, that was like the most im important moment for me in that episode, which is like, and you did this so beautifully, where Charlotte's like, yeah, I know, like you're surprised by that. Charlotte was not like devastated by that. She was like I know, here we are. I was shocked and I loved it, And I remembered really wanting Charlotte to be like, those are the facts. We are alone again, as opposed to what often Charlotte felt, which was like panic that she wasn't going to find the one so true, so true and I and it made her giving that ring so beautiful because she was in a very like secure space about where she had ended up, which for Charlotte was surprising that like letting go of this sort of dream marriage right that to me felt like the sort of coda for her and Trey was to finally push that.
00:31:25
Speaker 2: Ring and be like, I'm gonna have to be alone and that's.
00:31:27
Speaker 1: Okay, definitely, definitely, And then also, I love this is the mysteries of Charlotte sometimes, right, She waits till the very end scene to say, and the reason I'm going to be a docent is because no one will hire me Like that does important information?
00:31:40
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean? But she keeps that and then she's like, and by the way, it's not also glamorous as it seems over here, correct.
00:31:46
Speaker 1: You know, which is really good? And I thought kind of like foreshadows things that happened later on and in just like that, Yeah, that's interesting.
00:31:53
Speaker 3: That Shane was still looking for purpose and struggling to find it when she felt like she'd been pushed out of her career unintentionally. Right, she was like, I'm going to be a wife and I don't need this job. And then suddenly it's like, oh, I need to be a person out in the world.
00:32:09
Speaker 2: Not just right spouse or exactly exactly.
00:32:13
Speaker 1: So okay, take us back to where Okay, so you're you're were everyone's arguing in the in the writer's room about the money, which is so good.
00:32:20
Speaker 2: That's how you know you have something really good? Right, Well, that's Michael was.
00:32:23
Speaker 3: Like, this is we have to do this because everyone is having humongous responses to this. And what Michael always did, and I've used it in every show I've ever worked on, is everybody's opinion has to hit the screen.
00:32:35
Speaker 2: Oh so, which I love it.
00:32:37
Speaker 3: So it's like a writer is I don't like this for that character, and that's awful, and why would they ever do that? Somebody has to say with potentially the audience is going to be saying, so Charlotte was that character for us in this episode, like it is not appropriate for you to ask for money. Money is not to be mixed with friendship, right, And I think that helped, Like as whatever you think of Carrie in terms of the decision she made, somebody was saying out loud the thing that like, you got yourself into the situation I'm not responsible for I can't save you.
00:33:11
Speaker 2: Right.
00:33:11
Speaker 1: Well, Also, when they go shoe shopping, Miranda and Carrie, I'm just like wow, Like it's fascinating again, Like if you're trying to make a case for Carrie, being a mess. Basically, there's some evidence for you, like she just can't help herself.
00:33:28
Speaker 2: She's just an addict. Definitely, it's definitely an addict. It's pretty funny.
00:33:33
Speaker 3: And Miranda, look, there's a lot less healthy addictions.
00:33:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, but but not good on because she has gotten herself into this hole. Eat what I mean.
00:33:43
Speaker 3: No, My favorite thing is and I when she says I spent four thousand dollars on shoes, and she's like it's really good, and you're like, oh my god, that is an actual down payment she spent shoes.
00:33:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, back then, now we need another zero exactly. Yeah.
00:34:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, but now if we were to track her spending, it probably would be another's zero, yes, correct, Yeah, but obviously other things changed.
00:34:08
Speaker 2: But also Miranda is so there's.
00:34:11
Speaker 1: A cut in there where in that scene at the at the when they're shopping where she carries you know, talking out loud but also trying to buy shoes, you know, and and Miranda just looks at her at one point like.
00:34:24
Speaker 2: Sideways and you're just like, wow, Miranda is even holding her tongue. Yeah you know what I mean, yes, like what are you doing?
00:34:31
Speaker 1: And also like I can't say the whole truth right now, it would be too devastating.
00:34:35
Speaker 3: Yes, because she already said, I'm an old lady who's going to live in her shoes. Right, She's already in a dark place. But she the thing that brings her joy is the thing that's caused her down.
00:34:46
Speaker 1: It is super interesting. It's super interesting. Okay, so take us back, take us back. So people are arguing, you're the name on the script. How how do you feel while we're actually filming it?
00:34:59
Speaker 3: I mean, well, first of all, I was just again so nervous. I was gonna, you know, be on set and make a bad decision when no one else was there. And I had a couple of like my and I'd been on set for years now, so but it felt different sitting in that chair as the writer.
00:35:16
Speaker 2: And I remember.
00:35:19
Speaker 3: There was the scene where she goes to Big Oof, also difficult scene, a very difficult scene, and I had come in and for whatever reason, they hadn't told me. I think that they were rehearsing. So I came in as the rehearsal was ending, and I like ran in and the director, Alan Taylor, who's brilliant, he was staging it. So that they were sitting there was a couch in the room. Oh, and he had it that they were sitting on these couches talking and I was like, oh no, it's like this is a business proposal.
00:35:56
Speaker 2: It has me different and it had to feel very different from me.
00:36:00
Speaker 3: They were it was like she was coming to him, and I actually do not think she was coming to him for the money. I actually think she was literally like this guy knows how to make money, Like, how can I figure out how to leverage whatever I have to make money.
00:36:12
Speaker 1: I think the stakes are just so high for her to go there at all. Yes, that it's just got so much crackly energy that it's hard to tell what she's there for. She very clearly says, you know how to make money, teach me what you know. Yes, But also he has all the money, so it's a very she's walking a tight rope.
00:36:31
Speaker 2: Yes, and she's panicked. Yeah.
00:36:33
Speaker 3: But so I was like, oh, Alan, they need to be at the desk right, Like he has to be behind his desk, she needs to be sitting there, and they had to move everything because the shot was obviously down, you know, I think it was on six seventies. It was like that shot of him behind the desk was had to look down there, and I think the desk was like somewhere else. They were all props and set had to come in and everything had to be moved. But I was like, I know what this has to be, and it has to be so for him, and Alan was so great, but he was like, you know, we.
00:37:05
Speaker 2: Should have been here when and I was like, no one called, Like I don't know.
00:37:08
Speaker 3: It was like this just because I think people weren't used to being like Amy needs to be onset and I was like sitting somewhere else.
00:37:15
Speaker 2: So yeah, I was incredibly nervous.
00:37:17
Speaker 3: But again, like being on the show for so long, I mean, everybody wanted it to go well for me, everybody. I felt that, from actors, from crew, from the other writers, from producers. Like that was what was so beautiful about the show is that everybody we were family and people wanted everyone to do well. So I felt so supported in the process.
00:37:42
Speaker 2: But yeah, I was.
00:37:43
Speaker 3: I definitely felt like, Okay, I have to stand up in a different way.
00:37:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's scary for sure. And at this point, how old were you twenty seven? Oh my god, you were younger. You were younger than us.
00:37:58
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I was young, and yeah I was scared.
00:38:04
Speaker 2: Of course, you didn't seem scared at all. Okay, good, I mean it seemed.
00:38:08
Speaker 1: Very seamless from my perspective for sure. And I feel like also because you had been around so long and you would work so hard, you know, it really felt like you earned it, you know, like not like oh, let's just let her do this because she's here.
00:38:23
Speaker 2: It wasn't that way at all. You were fully a part of all.
00:38:27
Speaker 1: Kinds of decisions and you know, the day to day of all of it, you know, for so long that it made perfect sense, like it wasn't even a big deal, Like it was just like, yes, of course, finally.
00:38:39
Speaker 2: You know That's how I thought I felt. And you didn't seem nervous either. Well. I tried my hardest.
00:38:43
Speaker 3: I mean literally when I told Michael like three weeks after we finished shooting, I don't like and he was like, wow, you are fascinating, because I feel like I know you well enough to have seen that was happening.
00:38:54
Speaker 2: Yeah I never saw it. No, you definitely held it in really well.
00:38:57
Speaker 1: But then so with the you know, yes, a bit of drama on this set or whatever, because I mean, this is a different episode two, which is interesting when you're watching it. There's really a lot of kind of first that happened. And I remember when we filmed in Chinatown, it was like eight million degrees.
00:39:13
Speaker 2: Do you remember that.
00:39:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we got those little fans, which is so cute, and you needed the fans's I mean, they were so adorable.
00:39:20
Speaker 3: When I was watching and I forgot that the fans were in it, and I was like, that's because it was so hot.
00:39:26
Speaker 2: It was.
00:39:27
Speaker 3: It was that, I know, And I think weirdly that I might be wrong about this, but I think Sarah, Jessica and I got in the car after that, Oh no, you're not, because it was morning, right, there was light. Yeah, and then we went to Gracefoot Pie and got hot dogs and drove out.
00:39:43
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's what we would all do.
00:39:45
Speaker 1: We would do like because we were so tired, we would follow each other, so we didn't exactly, I know, thank god we had somewhere to go to sleep, I know, right, That's what it was about at that point, and being.
00:39:55
Speaker 2: Sleeping and sleeping and sleeping on s.
00:39:58
Speaker 1: Definitely, you guys, this is so much fun that we're going to have to have a part two. So join us later in the week on are You a Charlotte
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are you a Charlotte?
00:00:08
Speaker 2: This is exciting everybody. Finally, finally we have Amy V. Harris, one of.
00:00:16
Speaker 1: Our glorious, glorious writers. She has finally joined us on Are You a Charlotte because we have gotten to our first episode. Now we're going to go through the history. But she was in our world for a long time before she had her first episode. But her first episode with her name on the script is Ring It Ing Ding. It aired on January twenty seventh, two thousand and two, which is interesting, And Michael Patrick was just on last week and we were talking about how in the so we're on the air in the summer of two thousand and one. Obviously it's leading towards nine to eleven. Yes, and then they had separated the episodes into like a second season, yes, and no one really remembers.
00:00:57
Speaker 2: Why do you remember? So?
00:00:59
Speaker 3: I think we did eighteen episodes that season season four. I think I think they decided instead of running eighteen through the summer, which would be a very long season for an HBO show, that they would split it up, and so we ended up doing I believe the first ten were in the summer, and the second the eight were in January.
00:01:23
Speaker 2: That makes sense, that's interesting.
00:01:25
Speaker 1: I don't really remember that as being like something different that they did, and obviously something that they would be continuing on doing up until this day where they separate seasons, which is interesting because I remember, I don't know if this is probably silly, but I was always a little annoyed when they did that because it was almost like they got another season, but we were just paid the same.
00:01:48
Speaker 3: Yes, we did season four and then they split it up and made it season four A and four.
00:01:52
Speaker 1: P, right, and then season six. We worked that whole solid year and it was two seasons. That's right, bonus whatever you call it.
00:02:00
Speaker 2: Different things, yes, right, but you don't get the boneus exactly exactly right.
00:02:04
Speaker 1: And I mean, in some ways it's kind of silly to even think about it now, right because obviously it was all incredibly wonderful and we were richly, you know, paid for it all.
00:02:14
Speaker 2: Eventually it took a while. I think it was just the wild wild West.
00:02:18
Speaker 3: They know exactly how to do that, and I think probably when they started thinking eighteen episodes over the summer is more, we we wouldn't have finished.
00:02:27
Speaker 2: Till the fall. That's a good point.
00:02:29
Speaker 3: So I think they were probably like, yes, let's take advantage of thus and split it.
00:02:33
Speaker 2: But I know that is wild wild West on that one, I think will the West.
00:02:36
Speaker 1: But you know what else I think was happening. I think some of what was happening was that David Chase was taking a long hiatus. Yes, because at a certain point they pushed him to go back, and he felt like the season suffered, that he hadn't had time to really, you know, just state his ideas and whatnot, so that he wanted to take a longer time. And it had been that they would kind of counterprogram us. Yes, right, so then they.
00:03:01
Speaker 2: Were like, oh, well, let's just chump but.
00:03:03
Speaker 3: Yes, we can put Tex and the city in twice and people will be thrilled and they'll wait for sopranos that way.
00:03:08
Speaker 2: I didn't, that's right. I forgot.
00:03:10
Speaker 3: He was sort of the first person who sort of, I as somebody who's such a rule follower. I had never seen that before where it was like, oh, no, you just deliver year to year to year to year. And I think he really was the first person who said I'm delivering when it's ready.
00:03:25
Speaker 2: Right, which is pretty amazing. And now, of course with streaming, it's all insanity. Yes, it's all that.
00:03:30
Speaker 1: No one does eighteen that I know of, expt. I guess wait, I mean just the pit do they don't do eighteen?
00:03:35
Speaker 2: They do? They do thirteen? Yeah, twelve or thirteen? It almost like a lot. We do eight. My show, we do eight, Yes, we have.
00:03:43
Speaker 3: I launched a show June tenth and we did eight episodes.
00:03:47
Speaker 2: Why eight? How did they come up with that? I don't know.
00:03:52
Speaker 3: I know that we were a couple of years ago on Amazon you would do ten and then they moved it to eight, and I think my gut is they wanted to. I don't know if we've said we need ten, if they would have said, okay, great, But we started building the seasons to be eight.
00:04:09
Speaker 2: Got it.
00:04:10
Speaker 1: Did the budget change when it went from ten to eight or is it rough?
00:04:13
Speaker 2: No?
00:04:14
Speaker 3: That's a way is that you're amortizing over eight instead of ten, so sets have to they cost more, and so it gets a little trickier that way. But I think at the end of the day, they're spending two episodes less money.
00:04:26
Speaker 2: So it's still our world.
00:04:29
Speaker 1: Ooh ooh, it's crazy different. It's so amazing that you're just a big old showrunner.
00:04:35
Speaker 2: Now, Wow, I know. I really it's a job I love, I really really I love it. I feel you're very well suited for it.
00:04:43
Speaker 3: I think it's a strange skill set of creative and practical, and I think some people are very practical and some people are very creative. And for me, the fun of it is figuring out how to merge those two things the main time.
00:05:00
Speaker 2: I love it.
00:05:00
Speaker 3: Those puzzle pieces are the best for me. Like you, how am I doing this?
00:05:04
Speaker 2: Was this always your dream? I don't even think I understood this could be a dream. You know.
00:05:08
Speaker 3: When I meet young writers now and they say their goal is to become a showrunner, I think, how would you have even known to know that was something?
00:05:17
Speaker 2: I loved?
00:05:19
Speaker 3: The business, I mean, my first real I had one job before Sex and the City and TV, which was Darren Show, Central Park West.
00:05:29
Speaker 2: And I back up, how did you meet Darren? So?
00:05:32
Speaker 3: Darren's little brother and I went to nursery school together. I love it, and our parents had been friends forever. We grew up in the same neighborhood. We had beach condos near each other, and I hadn't seen him in years. She was older than me, and I was working at Vanity Fair magazine and he had done Melrose nine or two and zero, and I was in awe and he was so kind and so generous to me, and we were talking on the beach and he told me his next show is about editorial assistance at a magazine, which is what I was doing. And he said, can I take you to lunch when I come to New York next and pick your brain? And I my head almost popped off.
00:06:12
Speaker 2: I was so excited.
00:06:15
Speaker 3: So we had this long, great conversation, and then I wrote him a letter and said, I don't know if you're going to shoot this in New York or not, because he wasn't sure. Things didn't shoot in New York except for Law and Order at the time. But if it shoots in New York and there's any opportunity for me to come work for you, I would love it. And his assistant decided not to come from LA to New York, and I became his assistant.
00:06:38
Speaker 2: And how long did that last?
00:06:40
Speaker 3: So Central Park West was on for a season and I was in the writer's room taking notes and doing everything assistant related and then that ended, and I was like, oh gosh, what's next, and he's like, I bought And Candice had been around because she'd been doing a piece on him, and he said, I bought, can this his columns? And I'm going to write the pilot and I hope you'll stay on working for me. And then he was debating whether to sell it to ABC or HBO, and Jamie Charzis, who ended up becoming one of my closest friends, was like, I'm not even sure we can title it Sex and the City and he's like, I need to go to HBO, right, And then we shot the pilot and that was thrilling and so New Yorky, and like I was like, I can't believe I'm getting to do this in New York City. Yeah, and then it got picked up. But that first season, you remember, we had no idea if it was going to be anything.
00:07:41
Speaker 2: We don't know what it was like.
00:07:42
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, this is fun, and I don't know if it's going to get a season two. And I never worked in TV besides one show that hadn't gotten a season two, so I was like.
00:07:51
Speaker 2: My parents were panicking. They were like, you went for like a job.
00:07:55
Speaker 3: With you know, all sorts of like perks and benefits and health insure to these like these shows work or don't work and you're unemployed again. But yeah, and then Darren was really wonderful. He's I was very I was sort of living a Carrie Breadshast style life where I wasn't making a lot of money, but I was spending it all on my clothes and going out and shoes. And both Michael Patrick and Darren I think, really supported my desires to kind of move forward. And did I want to produce? Did I want to develop? I wasn't sure. And Michael and I have a debate about this, but I swear I read a script of a freelance script that came in and he said I read it before Michael did. And he came out and he goes, how is it? And I was like, it's okay, it's a rough draft, and he I believe he said to me, like, it's hard. You should try it, and he said I would never have said that, And I was like, whatever I heard was like, you should give it a go and see how challenging the process of writing is. Right. I was like, you know what I do want to see how challenging the process of writing is.
00:09:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I wrote a spec Sex in the City.
00:09:06
Speaker 3: Oh, And I said to Michael, I don't inspect in any way for this to be used on the show, but I would love for you to read it and give me notes and just tell me, like, either you have talent or don't. He was like, I'm never going to say you do or don't have time because he's so amazing and wonderful and like wants the best for you. And he read it. And I had made Samantha falls in love with a woman in my episode, which they ended up using. Yes, I was going to say, maybe you're the origin of this. I was amazing because I just thought that's who she was. She would fall in love with different types of people and be attracted to different types of people, and that felt very real to me. And I knew the draft was at least good enough because Darren came right to me and said, why didn't you let me read it? And I was like, I just thought you'd be too busy and if it was terrible, you would feel the like I knew Michael would be able to sort of walk me through, like why it wasn't working and why it wasn't good, and I didn't want to put two people through having to tell me it was. But yeah, and then Michael offered me a job on the writing staff, and so I moved from producing, which i'd been doing for those first two years, onto the staff.
00:10:17
Speaker 2: And then when you moved on to the staff, what was your first title on the writing staff?
00:10:22
Speaker 3: I think they gave me consulting producer because I wasn't They felt like I'd already been a producer on the show, so they didn't want me to come on as like a story editor.
00:10:32
Speaker 2: But do you at some point have the story editor title? Maybe I did, I feel like you. Maybe I did.
00:10:38
Speaker 3: And part of the reason, you know what I think I did maybe the season I think at the beginning, maybe it was I went from story editor to co producer.
00:10:47
Speaker 2: I guess that makes sense, Yes, that mass that's right.
00:10:57
Speaker 1: Okay, my Hyundai hot take for thispisode, which is called Ring and Ding Ding, I am going to go with the final scene where Charlotte gives the ring to Carrie after all the talk of money and whether friends should lend friends' money, and Carrie gets mad at Charlotte because Charlotte doesn't offer like the others do, and then Charlotte really has this great boundary and says, you know, it's not my job to fix this financial problem that you created for yourself. Then I think we have the most beautiful scene where Charlotte does give her the ring and Carrie says she's going to pay her back, and basically they kind of pledge themselves to each other. That's how I look at it when I see the scene, and I just love it, and I love our work, and I think we feel so connected in that scene, and I think it's such a beautiful ending. And I wish that everyone who posts the memes of her asking for the money would also post the memes of me giving her the ring and us bonding over it. So that's my Hyundai hot take celebrating iconic moments. Bold moves unforgettable style, just like Hende. I want to talk a little bit about what does a story editor do, because I think this is a job title that people don't really think about and I think is kind of important.
00:12:14
Speaker 3: It's really interesting, and I think a story editor is probably very different in every room. I have looked at story editor the way Michael and Darren looked at story editor, which is you're a less experienced writer in a room where everybody's opinions and ideas matter. So you're given some grace in the sense that I think your drafts when they come in, if they're not as sharp and wonderful as a co executive producers drafts, they understand you're less experienced in your learning. But what I never felt in the room was it wasn't a democracy. I mean, at the end of the day, Michael was deciding which stories went and had a very clear idea of what he was chasing. But the fun of our writer's room was that everybody was pitching on sort of an equal level, and then the ideas that sort of bubbled for people were the ones that sort of started to take off. That makes sense, and so I've always sort of looked at those younger levels, like staff writers, story editor, executive story editor as just writers that don't have the same level of experience, but in a writer's room are bringing the same value as someone with a lot more experience in terms of story ideas and had a shape story. And then obviously writers with more experience, and there was unbelievable talent on that room. They're there to sort of help guide those younger writers through the process.
00:13:42
Speaker 2: Got it.
00:13:43
Speaker 1: So if you're so, you're there and you may have less experience, but you're obviously living a life that is going to have rich ideas for the stories. Are you also in some way in charge of overseeing the stories that other people are writing?
00:13:57
Speaker 3: Or no, No, in our I think every room is totally different. But the room that Michael ran has been my template for every room I've run since. You try to figure out like, okay, like I was listening to Julian Elisa's episode and my mother board myself. They came in with three ideas that went right into that episode, and that very obviously became the episode they needed to write. Sometimes that's how it happened. Sometimes it can be Okay, this person, I have five writers, and three of them are writing scripts and two are still in the room, and so this person's writing this next episode. But what Michael always did, which I really loved, is he tried to find he wanted the writer to have like a deep connection to the stories that were being told, which I really thought was like a very beautiful way to kind of make sure I mean, look, every writer who's in a room, that's your hope, right that they connect to the characters, to the stories you like to tell. But he would kind of click into that and know, Okay, this is your app episode coming up. And so then in the room as you were pitching for that episode, you knew it was your episode. You were responsible for keeping the story straight, thinking them through. But you're in this unbelievably supportive room where all these amazing ideas are popping up and notes are being taken, and you're you know, it's like a beautiful pileon of people sort of developing the show with you always said like I always felt like the thing I think that was so beautiful on Sex and the City is you really felt ownership of your episode, but you felt fully like you were not cut a drift to like good.
00:15:36
Speaker 2: Luck, hope you do a good job at your script.
00:15:38
Speaker 3: It was like, so it was this community that was sort of servicing the story and the show, but you got to kind of find your way into the episode in a way that you were encouraged to do.
00:15:50
Speaker 2: That's so nice.
00:15:51
Speaker 1: I mean I obviously felt I mean it was the first show that I was around for this amount of time. Right, But when I was on Melrose, you never saw the writers. You know, it was one of those old fashioned kind of TV sets where the writers were off in a room. It might be in a different place even Yes, and for us, I think this is a known fact. But you know, you guys were part of our lives and part of the day to day of the set, and if it was your episode being filmed, you were on set with us. Yes, I mean almost the whole time, unless you like fell asleep at five am or whatever, which was totally understandable. But you know, did you feel like that was something that was normal or did you know it was special?
00:16:28
Speaker 3: I did not know it was special because I'd never really done this before. In my mind, writers went to set all the time. Michael loved having the writers on set to talk through stuff, and you know, we weren't ripping apart scenes, but a joke could be at it or why do you think this isn't as funny as I'd hoped it would be. He was so collaborative in the process. I mean, my joke was like that show was no Sex in the City for me, because I spent all my days and nights on set, and then Riday was Faturday, and I'd wake up at two on Saturday and I'd get up, you know, and then Monday was five am. Yes, So but I loved that process of just continually being because it also helped you as a writer to see how you guys were finding your character and what you were bringing that sort of inspired some other storytelling idea or device, And so for us that was I loved it. And I think one of the things, you know, that's been hard for me as I've moved as since the pandemic really is that often the other writers aren't on set anymore because you're not shooting in the same city as where you're so like, they don't bring everyone, they don't bring everyone. That is that is that's been for me as a showrunner whose goal is to try to train other people to become showrunners.
00:17:52
Speaker 2: That has been sad for me, really hard.
00:17:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, because you want because if you're not on set, I think it changes you're writing too, right, Like you really understand if I give this person this crazy action, or I give them not enough action, and then there's a twenty minute voiceover, right, like what are they going to happening? Totally so you start learning how to write to the actual reality of shooting, which.
00:18:17
Speaker 2: Yeah the best.
00:18:18
Speaker 1: Sometimes when you read a script, you definitely feel like, Okay, this person is in a room and everything's happening in their mind and they're trying to help people who are reading the script envision it right. So there's a lot of description, and I'm always like, oh, no, you know, because when you get onto the set that sometimes that works. Sometimes that doesn't work, and you never know how attached the writer is or the director is to all of that description on the script page. Yes, but sometimes you need that to help people reading it.
00:18:44
Speaker 2: Well, that's always I think the fine line.
00:18:47
Speaker 3: I sort of look at scripts as novels for the executives, but then you have to create something that actually like gets on its feet for production. So it can be you know, maybe how you write a p to kind of give people the wink wink and let them know what they're supposed to be feeling, because you know an actor will give you that feeling underneath the happy attitude is desperation, but you might have to write that in And I always feel bad because I feel like actors don't necessarily need you to like give them the true men.
00:19:23
Speaker 2: So I often will pull that stuff back once you go to production. Smart smart smart, but it helps with the read.
00:19:29
Speaker 1: So let's talk about your first When you're your first title you know by Amy B.
00:19:34
Speaker 2: Harris came, How nervous were you?
00:19:38
Speaker 3: Well, I was so nervous. I cried for weeks on end as I was writing my script. And I'm not much of a cry I know. I don't think you're crying at all. I mean, I never did it in public, but I would sit at home on the week that I was writing. I was off writing my episode, and I would spend the morning just sort of weeping, thinking I can't fail.
00:19:56
Speaker 2: What if I fail? Oh my God, Like I'm going.
00:19:59
Speaker 3: To fail and I'm going to disappoint the people I care about and a show that I love. So I cried a lot. And when I told Michael that later, he was like, Wow, I had no idea. He's like, you just seemed as cool as a cucumber about everything that was going on, and I was like, I was in a state of absolute terror.
00:20:19
Speaker 2: Wow.
00:20:21
Speaker 3: And I did sort of what I do now, which is I take a lot of long showers to think about story and how I want to tell it and a ton of walks, and I started to think about I suddenly started to realize that the show, to some degree was the Wizard of Oz.
00:20:40
Speaker 2: I like, how you start the episode that way?
00:20:42
Speaker 3: And that is why I ended up starting the episode that way, because it was all about her home, right, So I was thinking about, like, what are quotes about home? And then I was suddenly like, there's no place like home. And then all of a sudden, I started to realize, like Carrie is Dorothy, like Samantha is this like courageous lion?
00:21:01
Speaker 2: That's really funny? Who am I? Oh heart please? So adorable? I never knew this is so cute? Is spreading? I mean in a way, you guys are searching as much for that.
00:21:14
Speaker 3: You actually have those things already and Oz's New York got it. It just started making me very happy to think about those things, and that kind of gave me my opening and my ending. And then I started to relax a little because I had the story right, Like we knew the what our a story was like, we knew.
00:21:33
Speaker 1: What so you knew that this would have to do with her apartment and not being able to afford the down payment and just a little backstory to make sure we're caught up, because this is the point in the show where I don't remember stuff up until now, I remembered a lot. Now I'm like, whoa, what is happening? But it's really it's enjoyable because I'm I'm reliving but also watching like an outsider in certain ways, because I don't remember the storylines a lot.
00:22:01
Speaker 2: I remember the.
00:22:02
Speaker 1: Gist, I guess, but not the details, right like I remember of course the There's a lot of conversation that lives on about the Ring and Me and Carrie and Charlotte and carry And it's interesting because you can take it, you can take pieces of it out of context and it looks one way, but then if you actually look at the whole story, it looks a totally different way.
00:22:21
Speaker 2: Yes, which you know is true a lot of.
00:22:23
Speaker 1: The time, obviously, but it's I think, especially because this is a very unusual thing to be writing about. So with the apartment, just why exactly does Corbett have Like what happened?
00:22:35
Speaker 3: Yes, so when they got engaged, her apartment went from rent stabilized to us they were going to sell it.
00:22:45
Speaker 1: So this is why she's been able to stay there. This whole time for not very much. Seven and fifty dollars a month. Apartment New York is well heard of, and then they have an option to buy the apartment, and then he's like, let's buy the apartment next to it. We'll break through and make a big apartment and this will be our marital home basically, right, and then they break up at the end of the episode before, which is that beautiful fountain, see right, So now she's he's going to sell that second apartment and he basically says, you can buy the apartment from me, and then she starts realizing, like a lot of New yorquim that she spent all her money on shoes.
00:23:22
Speaker 2: Got it?
00:23:22
Speaker 1: So you knew that this is the place in the season that your script would come and so then it's up to you to flesh out.
00:23:29
Speaker 3: Yes, but we work in the room so closely, like so it was like, okay, so what do we want to see from this episode? And where is Charlotte and her story that we can bounce her up against Carrie because they're having very different breakups. Right, one got a beautiful home and was financially secure and this other one is lost her partner and is suddenly realizing like she's made a lot of bad decisions along the way, so we knew that was going to cross. And then the and all of that is being fleshed out in the room, like we're working as a group, we're finding it. And then there was the biggest fights we've ever gotten into. It was this episode. Yes, I mean enormous fights.
00:24:13
Speaker 2: About which party.
00:24:16
Speaker 3: And I was so Michael and I had very similar ideas about money, I guess, which we hadn't and we come from very different backgrounds, so we were like, huh, because we were sort of thinking maybe it was where we came from. But we were sort of like, if you have it and someone needs it, you hand it over and you hope it's alone, but you have to.
00:24:34
Speaker 2: Assume it might not be.
00:24:36
Speaker 3: But like, if you have the money, it's okay, Like hand it over to people. If you have the money, you pay for dinner. If you know next week maybe someone else has the money, they pay for dinner. It got pretty heated because not everyone felt that everyone felt that way got it. So there was a lot of people who felt Charlotte that you don't mix money and friendship, that it is potentially the end of friendships and that it's not come conversations to have and they shouldn't happen. And we were like, and I really appreciated the argument. Like the people who were against the idea were like, if Carrie goes to Charlotte and says, why didn't you offer me the money? I will hate her for the rest of this my life. I will hate her.
00:25:18
Speaker 1: Well, listen, there's people online who pull that clip out when they want to prove that Carrie's a narcissist. Yeah, yeah, I mean that's one of the ones.
00:25:26
Speaker 3: And it is one of those things where it's like you realize she's also like angry at herself that she's in this like difficult situation.
00:25:32
Speaker 2: Yes, and it's at the end of the day.
00:25:36
Speaker 3: She does get the money from Charlotte, obviously, but she was it was more she was like, why did you turn your back on me?
00:25:43
Speaker 1: I get it, like look away right when drink out of the straw.
00:25:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, we did, but totally that was no. Charlotte's very obviously like I'm not going to be part of this.
00:26:04
Speaker 4: Hey, everyone, it's Jesse Tyler ferguson Host of Dinners on Me. If you've been enjoying Kristin Davis on are you to Charlotte. I hope you'll come pull up a chair for our conversation over on my podcast when we had dinner at Rustic Canyon in Santa Monica. We talked about raising kids that causes closest to her heart, and one very unexpected moment when Kristen's daughter discovered that her mom had another job besides, as she says, working for the Elephants. Take a listen.
00:26:32
Speaker 1: We were on a plane and in the road in front of us, someone was watching the movie and Selenaver said, Mommy, that girl on the TV looks like you. Oh that is me, and see that's Cynthia and that's Sarah.
00:26:47
Speaker 2: But she was like, oh, like that was weird.
00:26:50
Speaker 1: I'm sure and then I thought, oh, no, what am I going to do in this movie?
00:26:54
Speaker 4: Well I do so I panic to hear the rest of our conversation with Kristin Davis. Search for Dinner is on me wherever you get your podcasts.
00:27:05
Speaker 1: I remember the scene the day that we shot, the scene where she comes to my apartment and we walk around that table. Yeah, and I remember it because I think there was still ongoing debate about the writing I remember rewriting and rewriting, and after the table read rewriting.
00:27:19
Speaker 2: Yes, and a lot.
00:27:20
Speaker 1: Of stress and worry about how to play it even and her level of anger. And I do think her level of anger because sometimes you do this to your friends you don't mean to, but like your anger comes out of them just because you're so uncomfortable with yourself.
00:27:37
Speaker 2: Yes, but that's how close we are, right, And that's the thing I thought where Michael and I sort of landed, and look, I rewatched and I was like, oh, Carrie, I'm not sure. Like it's a lot, it's a lot.
00:27:47
Speaker 3: It is. That's a crazy decision to go over and be like, I'm angry at you for not offering. Right, I don't want your money, but I'm angry at you for not offering.
00:27:56
Speaker 2: It's like I understand it. And look, I I.
00:28:00
Speaker 3: Look at all the times where I wish i'd sort of said I'm angry about this and didn't. And it did sort of pop the balloon for her of whatever that feeling of like explosion that was going to happen for her. It sort of eased her down. And I don't think she actually expected Charlotte to ever.
00:28:16
Speaker 2: Well, I don't think it was about that. It's not about that. That's just why wouldn't you support me in that moment? Right?
00:28:21
Speaker 1: I Mean, she thinks it's about that, but I don't think it's about that. And that's what I love about that scene is there's just so many layers. But I was also surprised at how hot.
00:28:28
Speaker 2: She comes in.
00:28:29
Speaker 1: I was like, whoa, mama, I know, I know, and she's like moving her hands at me and stuff.
00:28:34
Speaker 2: She's like, I did it. Yeah, you will see how I'm looking at her like I'm pleased. Sometimes.
00:28:41
Speaker 1: I told Michael there was a scene from a couple of weeks ago where I was like unsure of my choice. At the beginning of the scene, I was like, why did I make the choice? Did I even make a choice? What's going on there? Which is you know, sometimes I felt, you know, weren't going to happen. But in this scene, I loved what I did because she does she's so like unworked out on what is going on with her, you know, And.
00:29:05
Speaker 2: Because Aiden's gone and he was a thief, is a very.
00:29:08
Speaker 1: Like like people can complain about Aiden whatever, but he really listened to her like she would have her emotions and have her crazy ups and downs.
00:29:14
Speaker 2: And he would just be like, Okay, okay, you're gonna act a little crazy exactly right.
00:29:19
Speaker 1: So that's gone from her, right, she doesn't have that, and she's alone, and now she's going to lose her apartment, which is a huge deal.
00:29:24
Speaker 2: Obviously I understand it.
00:29:25
Speaker 1: But I love how I'm just looking at her when I'm like, it's not my job, but I look so empathetic to her correct, which I think is why we're able then to end up at the last scene.
00:29:36
Speaker 2: Yes you know, And it's like Charlotte does.
00:29:38
Speaker 1: Have boundaries in ways that the other characters don't always have, which also I didn't fully understand at the time.
00:29:44
Speaker 2: Right, Like I look back, I'm like, well, good for Charlotte.
00:29:46
Speaker 3: I was going to say, it's really a wonderful thing that she was able to say. This is not comfortable for me, and I've seen it go badly, And don't don't ask me to be who I'm not to make you feel like you have a friendship, because I'm here, absolutely present as a friend. Absolutely And that's why I loved your performance in that. Thank thank you so much.
00:30:06
Speaker 1: And I do remember being stressed about it and I remember Sarah and I just walked around that table like for I don't even know how many hours.
00:30:12
Speaker 2: It was a lot.
00:30:14
Speaker 1: But then I love the final scene where I do bring her the ring and it's so sweet and I hadn't really remembered all of it because all of that doesn't make.
00:30:24
Speaker 2: It into the memes.
00:30:26
Speaker 3: Yes, the interesting right, And also when she says, wow, we're alone again, that was like the most im important moment for me in that episode, which is like, and you did this so beautifully, where Charlotte's like, yeah, I know, like you're surprised by that. Charlotte was not like devastated by that. She was like I know, here we are. I was shocked and I loved it, And I remembered really wanting Charlotte to be like, those are the facts. We are alone again, as opposed to what often Charlotte felt, which was like panic that she wasn't going to find the one so true, so true and I and it made her giving that ring so beautiful because she was in a very like secure space about where she had ended up, which for Charlotte was surprising that like letting go of this sort of dream marriage right that to me felt like the sort of coda for her and Trey was to finally push that.
00:31:25
Speaker 2: Ring and be like, I'm gonna have to be alone and that's.
00:31:27
Speaker 1: Okay, definitely, definitely, And then also, I love this is the mysteries of Charlotte sometimes, right, She waits till the very end scene to say, and the reason I'm going to be a docent is because no one will hire me Like that does important information?
00:31:40
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean? But she keeps that and then she's like, and by the way, it's not also glamorous as it seems over here, correct.
00:31:46
Speaker 1: You know, which is really good? And I thought kind of like foreshadows things that happened later on and in just like that, Yeah, that's interesting.
00:31:53
Speaker 3: That Shane was still looking for purpose and struggling to find it when she felt like she'd been pushed out of her career unintentionally. Right, she was like, I'm going to be a wife and I don't need this job. And then suddenly it's like, oh, I need to be a person out in the world.
00:32:09
Speaker 2: Not just right spouse or exactly exactly.
00:32:13
Speaker 1: So okay, take us back to where Okay, so you're you're were everyone's arguing in the in the writer's room about the money, which is so good.
00:32:20
Speaker 2: That's how you know you have something really good? Right, Well, that's Michael was.
00:32:23
Speaker 3: Like, this is we have to do this because everyone is having humongous responses to this. And what Michael always did, and I've used it in every show I've ever worked on, is everybody's opinion has to hit the screen.
00:32:35
Speaker 2: Oh so, which I love it.
00:32:37
Speaker 3: So it's like a writer is I don't like this for that character, and that's awful, and why would they ever do that? Somebody has to say with potentially the audience is going to be saying, so Charlotte was that character for us in this episode, like it is not appropriate for you to ask for money. Money is not to be mixed with friendship, right, And I think that helped, Like as whatever you think of Carrie in terms of the decision she made, somebody was saying out loud the thing that like, you got yourself into the situation I'm not responsible for I can't save you.
00:33:11
Speaker 2: Right.
00:33:11
Speaker 1: Well, Also, when they go shoe shopping, Miranda and Carrie, I'm just like wow, Like it's fascinating again, Like if you're trying to make a case for Carrie, being a mess. Basically, there's some evidence for you, like she just can't help herself.
00:33:28
Speaker 2: She's just an addict. Definitely, it's definitely an addict. It's pretty funny.
00:33:33
Speaker 3: And Miranda, look, there's a lot less healthy addictions.
00:33:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, but but not good on because she has gotten herself into this hole. Eat what I mean.
00:33:43
Speaker 3: No, My favorite thing is and I when she says I spent four thousand dollars on shoes, and she's like it's really good, and you're like, oh my god, that is an actual down payment she spent shoes.
00:33:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, back then, now we need another zero exactly. Yeah.
00:34:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, but now if we were to track her spending, it probably would be another's zero, yes, correct, Yeah, but obviously other things changed.
00:34:08
Speaker 2: But also Miranda is so there's.
00:34:11
Speaker 1: A cut in there where in that scene at the at the when they're shopping where she carries you know, talking out loud but also trying to buy shoes, you know, and and Miranda just looks at her at one point like.
00:34:24
Speaker 2: Sideways and you're just like, wow, Miranda is even holding her tongue. Yeah you know what I mean, yes, like what are you doing?
00:34:31
Speaker 1: And also like I can't say the whole truth right now, it would be too devastating.
00:34:35
Speaker 3: Yes, because she already said, I'm an old lady who's going to live in her shoes. Right, She's already in a dark place. But she the thing that brings her joy is the thing that's caused her down.
00:34:46
Speaker 1: It is super interesting. It's super interesting. Okay, so take us back, take us back. So people are arguing, you're the name on the script. How how do you feel while we're actually filming it?
00:34:59
Speaker 3: I mean, well, first of all, I was just again so nervous. I was gonna, you know, be on set and make a bad decision when no one else was there. And I had a couple of like my and I'd been on set for years now, so but it felt different sitting in that chair as the writer.
00:35:16
Speaker 2: And I remember.
00:35:19
Speaker 3: There was the scene where she goes to Big Oof, also difficult scene, a very difficult scene, and I had come in and for whatever reason, they hadn't told me. I think that they were rehearsing. So I came in as the rehearsal was ending, and I like ran in and the director, Alan Taylor, who's brilliant, he was staging it. So that they were sitting there was a couch in the room. Oh, and he had it that they were sitting on these couches talking and I was like, oh no, it's like this is a business proposal.
00:35:56
Speaker 2: It has me different and it had to feel very different from me.
00:36:00
Speaker 3: They were it was like she was coming to him, and I actually do not think she was coming to him for the money. I actually think she was literally like this guy knows how to make money, Like, how can I figure out how to leverage whatever I have to make money.
00:36:12
Speaker 1: I think the stakes are just so high for her to go there at all. Yes, that it's just got so much crackly energy that it's hard to tell what she's there for. She very clearly says, you know how to make money, teach me what you know. Yes, But also he has all the money, so it's a very she's walking a tight rope.
00:36:31
Speaker 2: Yes, and she's panicked. Yeah.
00:36:33
Speaker 3: But so I was like, oh, Alan, they need to be at the desk right, Like he has to be behind his desk, she needs to be sitting there, and they had to move everything because the shot was obviously down, you know, I think it was on six seventies. It was like that shot of him behind the desk was had to look down there, and I think the desk was like somewhere else. They were all props and set had to come in and everything had to be moved. But I was like, I know what this has to be, and it has to be so for him, and Alan was so great, but he was like, you know, we.
00:37:05
Speaker 2: Should have been here when and I was like, no one called, Like I don't know.
00:37:08
Speaker 3: It was like this just because I think people weren't used to being like Amy needs to be onset and I was like sitting somewhere else.
00:37:15
Speaker 2: So yeah, I was incredibly nervous.
00:37:17
Speaker 3: But again, like being on the show for so long, I mean, everybody wanted it to go well for me, everybody. I felt that, from actors, from crew, from the other writers, from producers. Like that was what was so beautiful about the show is that everybody we were family and people wanted everyone to do well. So I felt so supported in the process.
00:37:42
Speaker 2: But yeah, I was.
00:37:43
Speaker 3: I definitely felt like, Okay, I have to stand up in a different way.
00:37:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's scary for sure. And at this point, how old were you twenty seven? Oh my god, you were younger. You were younger than us.
00:37:58
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I was young, and yeah I was scared.
00:38:04
Speaker 2: Of course, you didn't seem scared at all. Okay, good, I mean it seemed.
00:38:08
Speaker 1: Very seamless from my perspective for sure. And I feel like also because you had been around so long and you would work so hard, you know, it really felt like you earned it, you know, like not like oh, let's just let her do this because she's here.
00:38:23
Speaker 2: It wasn't that way at all. You were fully a part of all.
00:38:27
Speaker 1: Kinds of decisions and you know, the day to day of all of it, you know, for so long that it made perfect sense, like it wasn't even a big deal, Like it was just like, yes, of course, finally.
00:38:39
Speaker 2: You know That's how I thought I felt. And you didn't seem nervous either. Well. I tried my hardest.
00:38:43
Speaker 3: I mean literally when I told Michael like three weeks after we finished shooting, I don't like and he was like, wow, you are fascinating, because I feel like I know you well enough to have seen that was happening.
00:38:54
Speaker 2: Yeah I never saw it. No, you definitely held it in really well.
00:38:57
Speaker 1: But then so with the you know, yes, a bit of drama on this set or whatever, because I mean, this is a different episode two, which is interesting when you're watching it. There's really a lot of kind of first that happened. And I remember when we filmed in Chinatown, it was like eight million degrees.
00:39:13
Speaker 2: Do you remember that.
00:39:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we got those little fans, which is so cute, and you needed the fans's I mean, they were so adorable.
00:39:20
Speaker 3: When I was watching and I forgot that the fans were in it, and I was like, that's because it was so hot.
00:39:26
Speaker 2: It was.
00:39:27
Speaker 3: It was that, I know, And I think weirdly that I might be wrong about this, but I think Sarah, Jessica and I got in the car after that, Oh no, you're not, because it was morning, right, there was light. Yeah, and then we went to Gracefoot Pie and got hot dogs and drove out.
00:39:43
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's what we would all do.
00:39:45
Speaker 1: We would do like because we were so tired, we would follow each other, so we didn't exactly, I know, thank god we had somewhere to go to sleep, I know, right, That's what it was about at that point, and being.
00:39:55
Speaker 2: Sleeping and sleeping and sleeping on s.
00:39:58
Speaker 1: Definitely, you guys, this is so much fun that we're going to have to have a part two. So join us later in the week on are You a Charlotte