Nov. 2, 2026
Offensive Homeless Halloween Costume Forces Martha Stewart To Apologize Twice
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RSS Feed It was almost like a bizarre new magazine cover: “Martha Stewart Living, Homeless Edition.” In a strange departure from the curated perfection we’re used to from the homemaking, lifestyle guru, Martha Stewart briefly posted a Halloween photo of herself depicting a person experiencing homelessness. In the post Stewart has dirt on her face, ripped clothing, and a holds a sign reading: “I’m hungry, please help!!” Stewart removed the post and apologized, claiming she was trying to raise awareness about a serious problem, but in her caption she was selling halloween candles, not discussing homelessness. She has since apologized again, however, the reactions to her original post and her first attempt at an apology remain brutal.
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00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hey there, folks. Happens every year, right? Somebody, some celebrity, wears a Halloween costume that offends people. We did not see Martha Stewart coming, though. And with that, everybody, welcome. I'm TJ, that's Rope. And apparently Martha Stewart is out of her mind. She had a moment. She had several moments. I cannot believe she pulled this Halloween costume out. This is not a woman normally that makes this type. Of glaring misstep.
00:00:31
Speaker 2: No, this is a woman worth hundreds of millions of dollars for a reason. She's a smart, savvy, savage at times, businesswoman. She is a powerhouse. She's survived prison. She's buddies with Snoop Dogg. She's managed to bring people into her Homemaking guru fold of all ages, all ethnicity. I mean, it's amazing. This woman, it seems like, has overcome just about everything that has come her way, even if it's of her own doing. So I'm just surprised with all the lessons learned. You've learned this much of life. You've lived this many years. You have plenty of friends around you, you would think, who would say, That might not be a good idea.
00:01:23
Speaker 1: This makes it all the more confusing that this type of misstep could be made. It seems so obvious, and it was a misstep. It was a mistake. If you haven't seen yet, Martha Stewart dresses up for Halloween as a person experiencing homelessness. Okay.
00:01:39
Speaker 2: It's weird to have a politically correct way of saying something that was so, so politically incorrect. Just everything about it. I'm wondering from the moment, did she come up with the idea? And then she starts figuring out what her costume is, which involved putting dirt on her face, ripping jeans. Had to make a sign. Looking disheveled and the sign.
00:02:05
Speaker 1: Had to write a sign.
00:02:06
Speaker 2: The sign was maybe even the worst part about it. It read, I am hungry, help me.
00:02:13
Speaker 1: So there's no misunderstanding about what she was trying to be. what she was trying to represent, did she think it was funny, it's just a costume, it's just, whatever robes it may be. But her post, to add to it, to just say completely what the thing was, it added, her caption was about selling candles.
00:02:34
Speaker 2: Yeah. She said, check out my, what was it exactly?
00:02:38
Speaker 1: My Halloween candles, my QVC.
00:02:39
Speaker 2: My QVC candles.
00:02:42
Speaker 1: It's confusing. This could be that tone, Def. And again, people make mistakes. Martha Stewart has had a long career of making mistakes. But, Robes, she still has always found her way back. She has always been successful. Even when she was, I don't know, pushed out of the A-list crowd a little bit because she was a criminal, she's right back into it. Martha Stewart has survived a lot. And remember, this is an 85-year-old woman. I didn't realize she was that age.
00:03:09
Speaker 2: Who was just on the cover of Sports Illustrated, correct?
00:03:11
Speaker 1: Was she?
00:03:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, she was in her swimsuit.
00:03:14
Speaker 1: She was in the swimsuit edition?
00:03:17
Speaker 2: Wait, she was just showing off. So yes, we see her, and she seems ageless in a lot of ways, and she seems perfect. If you think about Martha Stewart, you think about perfection. Even though, yes, she's been to prison, she is somebody who I feel like embodies perfection and integrity. It's almost like an unattainable thing, just from her spreads, her holiday spreads, to her garden, to her business acumen. She just seems like someone who doesn't make many mistakes.
00:03:46
Speaker 1: In rooms, when you say the table and all this, every time you see her on a show, everything is perfectly curated. Yes. Perfectly in place. That's planning. That's a team. That's knowing what you're doing. That's knowing what the audience wants. All of those things don't apply to this Halloween costume. All of those things. I just don't understand how she missed. So, Robes, the backlash was swift. And it makes sense. Robes, you're dressing up for show, for fun, as somebody's pain. It's your costume. Their life is your costume. You don't have to go that far to explain why this is wrong, baby. It's hard to find any way to justify or defend She messed up.
00:04:33
Speaker 2: She messed up. And it would be wrong, obviously, for anybody to put on that kind of a costume. I remember as a kid, this is so interesting, that people would dress up as hobos. And I remember it was an easy costume. If you're, you know, like the railroad, you'd have like the knapsack. And so it was kind of a version of being homeless. And I remember, I don't know, we were talking about it. Maybe I was telling the girls about it. And this was years ago. They're like, Mom. you can't be a hobo, you're making fun of somebody. I was like, you're right, I can't believe we did that back then. Look, I know that things have changed and political correctness has evolved, as it should. You don't want your costume and your fun to make someone else feel pain or shame. I totally, I think we all can get that. So I remember 10 years ago at least having this conversation with my kids about how, oh my God, I can't believe that people dressed up as hobos. That's so awful. So fast forward to 2026, it's just hard for me to get my head around how this A first even became an idea and how no one, to me that tells me that Martha Stewart has surrounded herself with no one who feels empowered to give an honest opinion.
00:05:44
Speaker 1: Okay, I have this question about that. Is there any chance that she just did this on her own? She's at home. Where does she live? Somewhere up here in New York, right?
00:05:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, she lives in somewhere near the Hudson Valley. Yeah, we all know the town.
00:05:57
Speaker 1: You're right about the picture. But was there a collaboration? Were there people involved in this? Were there people who said, okay, guys, this year I want to, right? Did they actually sit around a table? Who's got ideas?
00:06:08
Speaker 2: I think so. Especially when you're Martha Stewart. Yes, because you're a Halloween costume. She loves Halloween. She's always talked about this. She's got plenty of costumes. You can look at the gallery from over the years. This is a production for her. Heidi Klum might own Halloween for like the parties and the celebrities, but Martha Stewart in terms of giving you ideas for your fall autumnal spread or just your Halloween festivities. For instance, she was selling her QVC Halloween candles. So she, this is a, Seasons and holidays and celebrations are her, like that is her bread and butter. That is what she does better than anyone else. And so yes, to say that thought wouldn't have been put into her Halloween costume makes zero sense. Zero, zero, zero sense.
00:07:02
Speaker 1: So you're saying a table full of people, she's sitting at the head of that table. What do you guys think I should do this year? I was thinking dressing up as a person who is homeless. That's what I was thinking, guys. Y'all think we could pull that off?
00:07:17
Speaker 2: Woo, I can't believe no one would say something. It's hard to imagine. And look, as I was saying, anyone doing this would be bad. But Martha Stewart, who actually makes her whole business off of food, and really good food, and exceptional food, and food that probably most of us don't know how to make, couldn't afford, and don't even know what it is when you say it in the French name it has.
00:07:39
Speaker 1: She is about food, so to then.
00:07:46
Speaker 2: Know that that's your brand. And then to talk about people who don't have.
00:07:50
Speaker 1: I don't have that.
00:07:51
Speaker 2: That is just extra hard to get your head around.
00:07:55
Speaker 1: And she has issued not one, but two apologies. And it seemed like the second apology was an apology for the first apology that she sent. We're going to share both of those. I want to get back to this table, baby. How many people do you have to have at a table before one of them Has the thought that this is a bad idea?
00:08:14
Speaker 2: Oh, I think all of them had the thought.
00:08:15
Speaker 1: That they didn't say it?
00:08:17
Speaker 2: Yes. Oh, okay. I don't think, especially if you have younger folks around you, which I think she does. I mean, we used to see her entourage coming. I happen to know somebody who's a part of that inner circle. I know they thought it. The question is, and this is like we think about when Trump posts what he posts, when certain folks say things, if you've got a strong personality, you're of a certain age, you have a certain reputation, you have been the head and the CEO and the person who makes all the decisions, who feels empowered to tell you you're wrong?
00:08:55
Speaker 1: They should all be fired. Aren't they there to protect her and the brand?
00:08:59
Speaker 2: But obviously, I would think someone has experienced someone pushing back and saw it didn't go well for that person. So in order to protect your job, best to say, that's such a good idea.
00:09:11
Speaker 1: But it's better to protect your job than protect the person you're there to protect, which is Martha Stewart.
00:09:15
Speaker 2: Everyone's always looking out for themselves.
00:09:16
Speaker 1: How do you not... how do you let this lady go out and do this? So the picture, she's standing, it looks like a porch on the back. It's not out at a public event.
00:09:24
Speaker 2: No, it looks like it's her home. Okay.
00:09:26
Speaker 1: She's been to some public events before in her outfits, right? This was not the case. So no indication I've seen anywhere that she actually went out to something in this, right?
00:09:33
Speaker 2: No, it looked like it was absolutely for Instagram. Even her dogs look sad. Did you see in the picture, like they had their head tilted. It looked, you know, when homeless folks who are experiencing homelessness have animals sometimes to get people to get more money.
00:09:46
Speaker 1: You thought that was part of it?
00:09:48
Speaker 2: It did kind of remind me of, look, here in New York City, we see a lot of people in this experience, and not many, but some of them have animals with them to garner extra sympathy to get more money in the bowl or the bag they have out with their sign. It read like that for me. The dogs being there looked sad, and it kind of mimicked what you see on a street corner here in New York.
00:10:13
Speaker 1: And she had a sad look, like she was making a face, right?
00:10:15
Speaker 2: They all had sad faces, including the dog.
00:10:17
Speaker 1: But she was making one, like a whole exaggerated face.
00:10:20
Speaker 2: Okay. Yes.
00:10:21
Speaker 1: So backlash comes hard, swift. I don't see too many who are defending this. Obviously, it's not the worst thing that someone is going to do on Halloween, but still, it did send a message, and it wasn't a good one. She issued an apology. This was apology number one that we'll share. and this was the one that I would argue made things worse.
00:10:46
Speaker 2: Isn't it you always say it's not the crime, it's the cover up or maybe even just, yes, because this was, it wasn't a cover up but it was a defense that didn't land. Her first apology read as follows. I am distressed that my Halloween costume yesterday, which was intended to bring more awareness to the very serious subject of homelessness, has offended people. which was never my intention. Homelessness continues to remain one of America's greatest challenges in ongoing crises, something that I care deeply about and I have spent a significant amount of time and effort supporting charities that combat this ongoing social epidemic. Here's the problem with that. Nowhere in her post Did she mention homelessness? Did she talk about the seriousness of it? Did she use her Halloween costume to give a link to donate to soup kitchens or to any organization, these charities she mentions, that could help aid in folks who are experiencing homelessness? So to say that when there was no mention of it in the initial post doesn't feel authentic.
00:11:53
Speaker 1: This one feels like she got help. This one feels like someone came with a PR strategy and saying this is what we should do and wrote this up and say, how does this sound? This will work. You have done, and I believe she probably has somewhere in her career, done something with people who are experiencing homelessness.
00:12:10
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sure she has too.
00:12:10
Speaker 1: Folks who are less fortunate. Yes. Robes doing this sounded horrible. That statement was worse than the picture itself.
00:12:20
Speaker 2: It was. Because she thinks we're stupid.
00:12:25
Speaker 1: Babe, that's a tough statement. Intended to bring more awareness to the very serious subject of homelessness. You have 364 other days of the year to do. It's just, it was one of those things, babe, you feel like you're being gaslit.
00:12:38
Speaker 2: Well, it is. You are being gaslit because there's no way that that was the reason why she did or decided to post that photo of her depicting someone who was experiencing homelessness. If she had put it in her caption when she posted it, then okay, that would have read as the intent. She mentioned her QVC Halloween candles on the post. She did not mention, she did not provide a link, she did not encourage people on this day when we're passing out candy and having fun to also remember those who are less fortunate. She had no mention of that specific issue. And I take issue with her talking about in the apology the very serious subject Exactly.
00:13:22
Speaker 1: Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.
00:13:24
Speaker 2: If it is a very serious subject, which I think we can all agree it is, why would you then put it in a cutesy Halloween post where you play acting sad that you're hungry? That's not serious. That's being playful. That's being funny. That's not serious. That's the opposite of serious.
00:13:42
Speaker 1: When you said that, it was... Even if, babe, it was well intended. Even if she had a long caption with links to other things, it's still not okay.
00:13:52
Speaker 2: It wouldn't have been.
00:13:53
Speaker 1: For the fun of it to go about it this way. Martha Stewart messed up.
00:13:57
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:13:58
Speaker 1: She messed up. She realizes later that she messed up and she realized that that statement was also wrong. not good enough. And I don't know when, you were the one that brought it up to me, the picture of her in a soup, no, the soup thing, where she was serving a soup recipe or something.
00:14:14
Speaker 2: Yes, sorry, so she deletes that Halloween post, right? And the next one that comes up, apparently, she's giving a recipe for some sort of a soup. So you can imagine folks jumped on that and were like, wow, maybe you could send this delicious soup that you're making to a soup kitchen to make up for the fact that you were making fun of people who couldn't afford.
00:14:34
Speaker 1: So she is, at this point, it's all rolling downhill, right?
00:14:38
Speaker 2: Well, because everything she does, most of what she posts are recipes for food. So now you've just done a whole Halloween thing. get up, making fun of, I would think most people, or at least making light of people who don't have money to have shelter or food. And now you're saying, here's a delicious recipe. Now everything you do brings up that picture that conjures that image of you making light of folks who are homeless.
00:15:08
Speaker 1: And look, I think you as well, but huge fans of Martha Stewart. And it seems odd to say, but really, Rose, when my first job out of college, you know how I sleep with the TV on all night. Yes, I do. You know what I watch now? Snaps.
00:15:23
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:15:24
Speaker 1: That show to just be on in the background. It used to be Martha Stewart living because it came on at these odd hours, like midnight to two or somewhere in Joplin, Missouri. That's what I slept to. That's what I watched every single night.
00:15:37
Speaker 2: Just what Martha Stewart wants to hear, I'm sure.
00:15:40
Speaker 1: And Rose, she taught me how to crack eggs. I still remember to this day her doing a story about how you crack it hard, one thing. Something about chewing gum while you're cutting onions. Robes. I remember Martha Stewart. We've had the pleasure of being around her on random occasions just because of what we do and where we go and whatnot. I like Martha Stewart, and I can say, and she understands this is a mess up without it being the end of the world and telling her she's the worst person in the world. She made a mistake. She's apologized. I get that. But this was such a glaring mistake. obvious and easy thing not to do. Yeah.
00:16:17
Speaker 2: I mean, to your point, I think I would think most people respect the hell out of Martha Stewart for all of those reasons you mentioned and then some. But while she is someone who I think has earned our respect, having been around her and knowing people who work with her, I think it's fair to say, and I've watched that documentary, by the way, it's so good on Martha Stewart.
00:16:38
Speaker 1: It's so good.
00:16:39
Speaker 2: She's a badass. But she is intimidating. She is an intimidating person. When I had been around her, when I had to do a segment with her, I got to tell you, I was nervous. And it's funny, like all the people we interview and a lot of them controversial, you have to ask tough questions. being around Martha Stewart on live television made me nervous. Because if you grabbed the wrong thing or you didn't do what she told you to do, she'd snap at you. And so you want to get it right because it's Martha Stewart. And I just think even me feeling that way doing a live television segment with her, and she wasn't rude or mean, she's just intimidating. I'm just saying the people around her, I would imagine, feel intimidated by her and don't feel comfortable telling her when she might be making a massive mistake.
00:17:25
Speaker 1: That should be the conversation in her room. Now, guys, you gotta raise your hand. Maybe she should be mad at them. Nobody saw this coming. Why didn't you say anything? Can really a group of five to 10 people out of all of them say, we don't even know what they're upset about. It's hard to understand that she could make this kind of misstep. And look, babe, it's about the intimidation. Look, we have seen her You know what we don't see her? Emote. She is a steady and pleasant woman. Almost grandmotherly in the way she talks and speaks and comes across all the time is that thing.
00:18:05
Speaker 2: Direct.
00:18:06
Speaker 1: Very direct. What do people get more of as they age? More set in their ways. More direct. I ain't got time to BS. She's 85.
00:18:15
Speaker 2: Stubborn too, though.
00:18:17
Speaker 1: Yes, to that point. Exactly that thing, babe. So What you're saying there reads. It makes sense. that you can't tell if she likes you or she doesn't like you. No, you cannot, you cannot. If she hates you, if she loves you, if she wants to punch you or hug you, you can't tell.
00:18:33
Speaker 2: And instead of, I agree, and I would just think maybe this is an opportunity because I don't think you're ever too old to learn and to grow and to evolve. And I think she would probably agree with that. She's lived enough years.
00:18:44
Speaker 1: And she's been evolving her whole career.
00:18:46
Speaker 2: Yes, but maybe instead of going around the table and asking all of her people, why didn't you tell me? Why didn't you say something? Maybe she should turn it inward and say, why have I created an environment where my own people are too afraid to say the truth to me?
00:19:03
Speaker 1: That's good. You're right. I mean, we talk about this all the time with President Trump.
00:19:17
Speaker 2: You have to ask yourself, there is a reason why nobody is willing to to tell you the truth if it goes against something that you've expressed you want or you've expressed you think is correct. You have to ask yourself, have I created an environment where everyone is so afraid of my wrath that they'd rather say nothing, even if it would be to my benefit, rather than to deal with my anger in that moment.
00:19:46
Speaker 1: So as we said, she did robes after that stunt. apology. It was stunning to hear that. Did she read the reactions? Did she figure it out on her own? I don't know what, but that apology we just read to you led her to a short time later, at least what the following Monday morning, I think, put out another statement robes and this addressed that that first one didn't get it done.
00:20:13
Speaker 2: When you have to put out two statements.
00:20:15
Speaker 1: To apologize for the same thing. And if you have to apologize for your first apology. That's tough. It's not going well.
00:20:23
Speaker 2: Especially Martha Stewart. You just would not think that she wouldn't have gotten, well, she wouldn't have gotten the first thing wrong in the first place, but then to get the apology wrong, to have to do a second apology, she's spinning right now. The second apology reads, It's hard to admit when you've really screwed up. My earlier statement didn't go far enough. I know many people are suffering economically. Wearing a costume like I did was insensitive and not funny. I am very sorry, Martha.
00:20:55
Speaker 1: What do you think?
00:20:57
Speaker 2: So here's what I think. By her saying wearing a costume like I did was insensitive and not funny implies that she did think it was funny to begin with. it implies that it wasn't a statement about raising awareness of homelessness. It's about acknowledging, actually, that her first statement might have kind of been a lie. Because I'm reading it like she's acknowledging that she actually thought it was funny. Am I wrong to read it that way?
00:21:30
Speaker 1: No, I get why you're possibly reading it that way, but this was written in such a short, direct... didn't leave a lot of room, didn't explain a whole lot, is what I'm saying. It wasn't funny. It was incentive. People are hurting. Earlier statement sucked. I'm sorry. That was it. I mean, it didn't go as far. Like, look at all, you know, I go back. It's Harry and Meghan. I don't know where I picked this up from Harry, Prince Harry, years ago, but the mantra for the royal family, don't complain and don't explain. And if you had to use that many words to explain yourself the first time and still not get it done, the second one is much shorter, but I thought needed to be much longer.
00:22:13
Speaker 2: Yes, because when she said my earlier statement didn't go far enough, I would argue that her statement earlier went too far.
00:22:22
Speaker 1: Down the wrong path.
00:22:24
Speaker 2: Don't tell us that the Halloween costume was to raise awareness when it clearly was not. And then... To just say it didn't go far enough. No, it went to places it should never have gone. That's the whole point.
00:22:39
Speaker 1: My question, by saying it didn't go far enough, suggests Rose... She should say more. to attach to that statement, not take some things out. That's what I'm saying. It didn't go far enough. I should have said this other thing. What other thing? Robes, oh, Martha, we love your sister. She knows this is a mess up. This will go away eventually, whatever. But people are going to have a hard time, and they are dumping on her as much as they can. But Robes, that, oh, my God. To be in that PR war room with Martha Stewart, to hear how that's going down. Now, that's a documentary. I would watch just a Halloween documentary behind the scenes of the hobo outfit.
00:23:19
Speaker 2: Woo! The hobo outfit.
00:23:22
Speaker 1: Do they use hobo anymore?
00:23:23
Speaker 2: No, I think that's a term from the, like, back in the day when they talked about carpetbaggers and things like that. Like, we're talking it's old school hobo. You know, with the branch, with the knapsack.
00:23:36
Speaker 1: I thought that was a runaway.
00:23:37
Speaker 2: Well, but it was a hobo, too. You're just jumping on trains and going back and forth.
00:23:41
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, I know what you're talking about. The red and white polka dot bag at the end of the thing. Where do they always get those polka dot wrappers?
00:23:49
Speaker 2: I don't know, it was like a scarf, like a makeshift scarf. I feel like, was that in cartoons even? Like, it was back in the day.
00:23:56
Speaker 1: Didn't go far enough. There, if she wanted to say more, she started with, the idea was born from my mind and my mind only. Nobody on my staff, blah, blah, blah. Or, when it was brought to me, we were thinking, blah, blah, blah. If you want to explain, go ahead and explain and take more responsibility to put it on you and not anybody else. Because right now I'm putting it on a lot of other people. She knows she's ultimately the one who put it on. Ro, she sat in a chair.
00:24:24
Speaker 2: And as they were putting makeup on her face to replicate dirt, she was still thinking this was a good idea?
00:24:32
Speaker 1: There were steps. What was the jacket? Do you have the picture in front of you?
00:24:35
Speaker 2: Oh, I have to go pull it back up, but I do have it available.
00:24:37
Speaker 1: It's hard to think she just opened a closet. Let me just throw this on. I don't have anything. Maybe she was a last minute thing. She didn't plan anything out this year. You think about that?
00:24:45
Speaker 2: No, I don't. You don't buy that? That doesn't sound like Martha Stewart. That doesn't sound like Martha Stewart.
00:24:51
Speaker 1: But Halloween can sneak up on you. Do you have the picture?
00:24:54
Speaker 2: I do. I'm looking at it.
00:24:55
Speaker 1: Okay. Does it look like the jacket and things were detailed by someone versus just she ripped a little bit?
00:25:02
Speaker 2: No, she had the ripped jeans. She had a sweater that had holes in it. She had a flannel shirt underneath. It was actually kind of curated, pulled up. She had a beanie because it's cold outside. She had a really sad look on her face. Again, the dog's sad look on their faces. I am hungry, help me! With two exclamation points.
00:25:22
Speaker 1: That was an easy sign. It looks almost like a last minute outfit. Does it not? It doesn't look elaborate.
00:25:29
Speaker 2: It's not elaborate, but the makeup took a little bit of time. Dirt all over her face.
00:25:34
Speaker 1: So maybe that's it. If she'd have said that, I would have listened to that. I threw something together right quick, and I failed miserably. I don't know.
00:25:43
Speaker 2: Something that makes more sense than saying you did it deliberately to raise awareness.
00:25:48
Speaker 1: What's going to happen with this now? This will go away after a few days. We got the midterms. Everything's going away after Tuesday.
00:25:54
Speaker 2: You know what? So often is the case. Any controversy, any scandal is... lives only as long as the next big news cycle. Sometimes, unfortunately for folks who are caught in it, it's just a quiet time. Fortunately for Martha Stewart, it's a very busy time in our country, and this will soon be forgotten. I do believe that.
00:26:14
Speaker 1: Then I think of the other thing. I thought you were going a different direction. It's a very busy time for Martha Stewart. It's the holidays.
00:26:20
Speaker 2: Well, it is. As I said that I also know, and we know this, once something like this sticks to you and it's related to her brand... because she's talking about food, because she's talking about food prep and recipes and feeding your family, It is all there. She is now going to every post. There is always going to be, there are going to be those folks who just dog her, dog her, dog her on the comments. I bet you there will always be comments of people bringing this back up. Will she outlive it?
00:26:50
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:26:51
Speaker 2: Will it destroy her brand? No, but I do think she's going to have to walk because people just don't let this kind of thing go. And if they think, especially they can take someone down who's on top, People love that. And I hate it because it's just an awful way to live that you feel better when you can take someone else down. But there are plenty of people out there who do live by that, whether they realize it or recognize it or not. And I do think she'll probably always have to have her social media manager. You can filter out certain comments with words. So homeless will be one of the words that will be filtered out of every comment because, yeah, this will be a full-time job for somebody.
00:27:32
Speaker 1: Okay. Let me ask this question. What you would have said to Martha Stewart? Okay. But I want you to do it in the context of that fearful anchor you were having to do a segment with her.
00:27:46
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:27:47
Speaker 1: In that mindset, that same woman that you're scared to death of just doing a segment, If you're on that staff, if you saw her wanting to do this, what do you say to her?
00:27:57
Speaker 2: I would just say any chance you think this could be taken the wrong way, you, Martha Stewart, who is just the guru of food prep and feeding families, talking about someone who can't afford to feed themselves, that could be taken the wrong way. Have we considered that? That's probably what I would have said. How about you?
00:28:22
Speaker 1: I don't know if I would have... Yes, you said it in the way that maybe a subordinate is supposed to say to their boss. Like, is there any chance that maybe.
00:28:31
Speaker 2: Just raising a possibility here.
00:28:33
Speaker 1: Someone should say more forcefully, I really believe this is going to be bad because you're dressing yourself for fun in somebody else's life and pain. That's always bad.
00:28:43
Speaker 2: That was effective.
00:28:45
Speaker 1: That's it.
00:28:45
Speaker 2: That was effective.
00:28:47
Speaker 1: So, do you, Martha? And I'm going to be here to support you, but this is... Likely going to be a problem media-wise. And forget that. What's it worth? Let me just ask you, Martha, why would you want to do this? Would you walk down the street in New York, in Manhattan, wearing this on Halloween?
00:29:10
Speaker 2: That's a good question.
00:29:10
Speaker 1: Or if you wouldn't, why would you? And then that is your answer to what you should do with this.
00:29:16
Speaker 2: So smart.
00:29:17
Speaker 1: That's it, baby. This is madness.
00:29:19
Speaker 2: That's smart because you appeal to her. Ask her the question. Have her answer it. Have her come to the realization that that isn't a safe or smart way forward. And I've always believed this. I talk about this a lot. As a parent, I used to always ask my kids, I have to ask myself this, what's your goal? What was her purpose? Was it, was it to be playful or have fun? And then if you, if your answer is it's at someone else's expense, it's at a group of people's expense, it's never worth it.
00:29:50
Speaker 1: Man, that should be the, every celebrity should have that criteria. You just let, does it this, does it this and does it this? And if so, You shouldn't wear it.
00:29:59
Speaker 2: Abort, abort, abort.
00:30:00
Speaker 1: I would have given her maybe some other options for Martha. I said, try blackface. Maybe you could do that this year.
00:30:07
Speaker 2: That's worked well for plenty of other celebrities.
00:30:09
Speaker 1: You know what? No, don't do homeless. Do blackface.
00:30:12
Speaker 2: Wow. I feel like you want to believe that that ship has sailed, that everyone has gotten the memo that that is never, ever an okay thing. I actually heard people trying to do honey face instead of blackface. What's that? I think, who played Barack Obama on SNL?
00:30:31
Speaker 1: On SNL?
00:30:33
Speaker 2: He was, I can't think of his name right now, but he's a white guy, and he was like, I don't think I can do blackface, so I'm doing honey face, which is like, just slightly... More offensive.
00:30:45
Speaker 1: Don't do me like that. Honeyface.
00:30:48
Speaker 2: Armistead. Fred Armistead. That's his name. I was trying to think of his name. He played Barack Obama. And he was struggling between how do I play Barack Obama.
00:30:57
Speaker 1: So you said SNL essentially did Blackface?
00:30:59
Speaker 2: They called it Honeyface.
00:31:00
Speaker 1: But it was Blackface. See, I don't remember that character. I remember Fred Amherst did. I don't remember him doing it.
00:31:06
Speaker 2: Yes, and he even talked about how he was threading a needle. But I even remember Megyn Kelly talking about Halloween costumes in 2018. Remember that show she had on NBC for a hot second? And it was not getting good ratings and she was getting lambasted for the segment she was doing that was just completely not in character with what, she's a hard news political type of reporter and she was talking about how to organize your closet. So there were a lot of things that were going on with that show that didn't end well. But the final nail in her coffin was her having a round table conversation about Halloween costumes and in October of 2018, and she said that she felt like it was okay to do blackface as long as you were being a character, you were in character.
00:31:53
Speaker 1: But do I remember this right? It wasn't necessarily a big part of the segment. It came out of just left field.
00:31:58
Speaker 2: She decided to just say, and there were, I believe there were one or two black, guests on the panel when she said it. Okay, here it was. Okay, when I was a kid, as long as you were dressing like a character, it was fine. She was defending wearing blackface. They were having like a hot topics kind of conversation. And she said that, and that was it for her. She was done. I had forgotten about that. But Business Insider had like the 21 celebrities who did blackface. And I actually couldn't believe how mad I was Shocked. You have a few of them that are memorable that you wrote out. Julianna Hough was the big one.
00:32:45
Speaker 1: I don't remember her doing this.
00:32:47
Speaker 2: I do.
00:32:48
Speaker 1: I don't. This wasn't how terribly long ago.
00:32:50
Speaker 2: Not that long ago.
00:32:51
Speaker 1: Crazy eyes from.
00:32:53
Speaker 2: Orange is the New Black, and one of my favorite characters, but not one that I would ever try to dress up as for Halloween.
00:33:00
Speaker 1: She was bronze-ish, wasn't she?
00:33:05
Speaker 2: She was like a honey face. It was the same kind of thing. I didn't even know that was a term.
00:33:08
Speaker 1: We have a list of things you cannot say.
00:33:11
Speaker 2: I can't ever say that again.
00:33:13
Speaker 1: Honey face is one of them.
00:33:14
Speaker 2: I was reading what they wrote.
00:33:15
Speaker 1: To promenade and pied-a-terre. Those are things we do not say. In the house. So yeah, who else do you have that did blackface?
00:33:23
Speaker 2: Oh, I have a bunch. Like they have, like they've got Justin Trudeau, but remember that?
00:33:31
Speaker 1: Oh, snap. He got into a whole bunch.
00:33:34
Speaker 2: Virginia Governor Ralph Northam once painted his face with shoe polish as a part of a Michael Jackson costume. One of the Real Housewives, Luann Lucefis, she just wore, and she did get darker. She did put tanning cream. She wore a Diana Ross costume. Afro, she was Diana Ross. There was, I'm trying to think of the other ones. I mean, it's a lot. Oh, I didn't realize this. Joy Behar proudly... showed a picture of her dressed up as a beautiful African woman for Halloween. Um, that was back in 2016, but she didn't even realize that that was going to create backlash.
00:34:09
Speaker 1: But that was from that year. It wasn't like an old picture.
00:34:11
Speaker 2: It was an old picture. It was an old picture, but she was proudly displaying it. Like didn't realize that maybe back then it wasn't considered or wasn't recognized as being offensive, but the fact that she didn't recognize it, um, Oh, Alabama Governor Kay Ivey had to apologize for wearing blackface when she was a student in the 60s. The Justin Trudeau one is hilarious.
00:34:35
Speaker 1: In the 60s? That's like the worst blackface ever.
00:34:37
Speaker 2: Right during the civil rights era. Jimmy Kimmel did Carl Malone. He dressed up repeatedly as Carl Malone with blackface. Jimmy Fallon wore blackface playing Chris Rock in a sketch.
00:34:49
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ.
00:34:50
Speaker 2: And I'm looking at these pictures and it's, It's so offensive now. I cannot believe it was okay.
00:34:55
Speaker 1: Public service announcement. Does it need to be said again and again? I don't know why folks get offended that they are offending people. Like you actually think. And a lot of people, maybe your daughters, don't know this history of minstrel shows. They don't know how we have been.
00:35:11
Speaker 2: Oh, Ava does because of NYU.
00:35:13
Speaker 1: We're just caricatures to make fun of us. And when you do that, you're not dressing up as MLK. No. You're not dressing up. You're dressing up as Kanye West and whatnot.
00:35:27
Speaker 2: That was the American Horror Story actor.
00:35:29
Speaker 1: Don't do it. There's nothing else to talk about. If there is a black character you love and want to be, you're just going to have to have your regular white face to go along with it.
00:35:40
Speaker 2: That's just it.
00:35:41
Speaker 1: It's offensive. It's awful. It's awful. Awful. Just don't do it. There's no next thing.
00:35:46
Speaker 2: There's no explanation. There's no justification. You cannot do it. I also forgot about this. You were called Sean White, the Olympian. Dressing as Simple Jack. And, like, talk about Tropic Thunder, period. They've got blackface in that. You've also got Ben Stiller's character.
00:36:03
Speaker 1: Got an Academy Award nomination for playing blackface, by the way.
00:36:06
Speaker 2: Mr.
00:36:06
Speaker 1: Robert Downey Jr., he sure did.
00:36:08
Speaker 2: But why is that okay?
00:36:09
Speaker 1: It's okay because most of the people voting at that time for an Oscar see that as what a black person acts like. Yeah, that works. He nailed being a Negro. He nailed it. This is a white boy. He nailed it. nomination, at least. He didn't win.
00:36:29
Speaker 2: My God.
00:36:29
Speaker 1: That's one of those, it's bizarre, babe. I know, I know. It's just the expectation of what black is and what black should be. It's wild. It's wild. So, just please, once again, folks, just don't do it. I don't, why are you defending even somebody to push back? Well, I should be able to, huh?
00:36:50
Speaker 2: Don't dress up as a marginalized person A person of any, like anyone who is basically in a position where you feel superior to them, don't dress up as them as a joke.
00:37:06
Speaker 1: Because you can make fun of them. And then when you get done with your black face on Halloween, I got to still be black for the rest of the year. For the rest of my life.
00:37:16
Speaker 2: That's a good way to put it.
00:37:17
Speaker 1: You have fun one night. Awesome. It's just people just don't do it.
00:37:22
Speaker 2: Don't do it. Every year, though. Every year.
00:37:26
Speaker 1: Julia Fox, did you remember this one? You saw that picture?
00:37:29
Speaker 2: I did not remember this.
00:37:30
Speaker 1: Actress Julia Fox, but she wore Jackie Kennedy's replica suit that she was in when her husband was shot and killed. But she wore it, had the bloodstains on it.
00:37:39
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:37:39
Speaker 1: And she explained it later by saying, well, it was a part of the story. Jackie Kennedy refused to change clothes. When all that was going on, she had that dress on for a while. she claimed, well, I was trying to be representative of that thing. It just, that's a tough one to come across.
00:37:54
Speaker 2: No.
00:37:54
Speaker 1: To try to get across.
00:37:54
Speaker 2: There are some things that are just insensitive. There are some things that are cruel. There are some things that are just not funny. And especially when you have a platform and you have people looking to you and looking up at you, you have an extra responsibility to not marginalize or make fun of or joke about or entertain at someone else's experience's expense, basically, is maybe the way you could put it.
00:38:25
Speaker 1: And Martha Stewart did do that. She's apologized twice. We'll see if we get a third. But, folks, we appreciate you, as always. I'm TJ. That's Robes. We'll see you soon.
Speaker 1: Hey there, folks. Happens every year, right? Somebody, some celebrity, wears a Halloween costume that offends people. We did not see Martha Stewart coming, though. And with that, everybody, welcome. I'm TJ, that's Rope. And apparently Martha Stewart is out of her mind. She had a moment. She had several moments. I cannot believe she pulled this Halloween costume out. This is not a woman normally that makes this type. Of glaring misstep.
00:00:31
Speaker 2: No, this is a woman worth hundreds of millions of dollars for a reason. She's a smart, savvy, savage at times, businesswoman. She is a powerhouse. She's survived prison. She's buddies with Snoop Dogg. She's managed to bring people into her Homemaking guru fold of all ages, all ethnicity. I mean, it's amazing. This woman, it seems like, has overcome just about everything that has come her way, even if it's of her own doing. So I'm just surprised with all the lessons learned. You've learned this much of life. You've lived this many years. You have plenty of friends around you, you would think, who would say, That might not be a good idea.
00:01:23
Speaker 1: This makes it all the more confusing that this type of misstep could be made. It seems so obvious, and it was a misstep. It was a mistake. If you haven't seen yet, Martha Stewart dresses up for Halloween as a person experiencing homelessness. Okay.
00:01:39
Speaker 2: It's weird to have a politically correct way of saying something that was so, so politically incorrect. Just everything about it. I'm wondering from the moment, did she come up with the idea? And then she starts figuring out what her costume is, which involved putting dirt on her face, ripping jeans. Had to make a sign. Looking disheveled and the sign.
00:02:05
Speaker 1: Had to write a sign.
00:02:06
Speaker 2: The sign was maybe even the worst part about it. It read, I am hungry, help me.
00:02:13
Speaker 1: So there's no misunderstanding about what she was trying to be. what she was trying to represent, did she think it was funny, it's just a costume, it's just, whatever robes it may be. But her post, to add to it, to just say completely what the thing was, it added, her caption was about selling candles.
00:02:34
Speaker 2: Yeah. She said, check out my, what was it exactly?
00:02:38
Speaker 1: My Halloween candles, my QVC.
00:02:39
Speaker 2: My QVC candles.
00:02:42
Speaker 1: It's confusing. This could be that tone, Def. And again, people make mistakes. Martha Stewart has had a long career of making mistakes. But, Robes, she still has always found her way back. She has always been successful. Even when she was, I don't know, pushed out of the A-list crowd a little bit because she was a criminal, she's right back into it. Martha Stewart has survived a lot. And remember, this is an 85-year-old woman. I didn't realize she was that age.
00:03:09
Speaker 2: Who was just on the cover of Sports Illustrated, correct?
00:03:11
Speaker 1: Was she?
00:03:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, she was in her swimsuit.
00:03:14
Speaker 1: She was in the swimsuit edition?
00:03:17
Speaker 2: Wait, she was just showing off. So yes, we see her, and she seems ageless in a lot of ways, and she seems perfect. If you think about Martha Stewart, you think about perfection. Even though, yes, she's been to prison, she is somebody who I feel like embodies perfection and integrity. It's almost like an unattainable thing, just from her spreads, her holiday spreads, to her garden, to her business acumen. She just seems like someone who doesn't make many mistakes.
00:03:46
Speaker 1: In rooms, when you say the table and all this, every time you see her on a show, everything is perfectly curated. Yes. Perfectly in place. That's planning. That's a team. That's knowing what you're doing. That's knowing what the audience wants. All of those things don't apply to this Halloween costume. All of those things. I just don't understand how she missed. So, Robes, the backlash was swift. And it makes sense. Robes, you're dressing up for show, for fun, as somebody's pain. It's your costume. Their life is your costume. You don't have to go that far to explain why this is wrong, baby. It's hard to find any way to justify or defend She messed up.
00:04:33
Speaker 2: She messed up. And it would be wrong, obviously, for anybody to put on that kind of a costume. I remember as a kid, this is so interesting, that people would dress up as hobos. And I remember it was an easy costume. If you're, you know, like the railroad, you'd have like the knapsack. And so it was kind of a version of being homeless. And I remember, I don't know, we were talking about it. Maybe I was telling the girls about it. And this was years ago. They're like, Mom. you can't be a hobo, you're making fun of somebody. I was like, you're right, I can't believe we did that back then. Look, I know that things have changed and political correctness has evolved, as it should. You don't want your costume and your fun to make someone else feel pain or shame. I totally, I think we all can get that. So I remember 10 years ago at least having this conversation with my kids about how, oh my God, I can't believe that people dressed up as hobos. That's so awful. So fast forward to 2026, it's just hard for me to get my head around how this A first even became an idea and how no one, to me that tells me that Martha Stewart has surrounded herself with no one who feels empowered to give an honest opinion.
00:05:44
Speaker 1: Okay, I have this question about that. Is there any chance that she just did this on her own? She's at home. Where does she live? Somewhere up here in New York, right?
00:05:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, she lives in somewhere near the Hudson Valley. Yeah, we all know the town.
00:05:57
Speaker 1: You're right about the picture. But was there a collaboration? Were there people involved in this? Were there people who said, okay, guys, this year I want to, right? Did they actually sit around a table? Who's got ideas?
00:06:08
Speaker 2: I think so. Especially when you're Martha Stewart. Yes, because you're a Halloween costume. She loves Halloween. She's always talked about this. She's got plenty of costumes. You can look at the gallery from over the years. This is a production for her. Heidi Klum might own Halloween for like the parties and the celebrities, but Martha Stewart in terms of giving you ideas for your fall autumnal spread or just your Halloween festivities. For instance, she was selling her QVC Halloween candles. So she, this is a, Seasons and holidays and celebrations are her, like that is her bread and butter. That is what she does better than anyone else. And so yes, to say that thought wouldn't have been put into her Halloween costume makes zero sense. Zero, zero, zero sense.
00:07:02
Speaker 1: So you're saying a table full of people, she's sitting at the head of that table. What do you guys think I should do this year? I was thinking dressing up as a person who is homeless. That's what I was thinking, guys. Y'all think we could pull that off?
00:07:17
Speaker 2: Woo, I can't believe no one would say something. It's hard to imagine. And look, as I was saying, anyone doing this would be bad. But Martha Stewart, who actually makes her whole business off of food, and really good food, and exceptional food, and food that probably most of us don't know how to make, couldn't afford, and don't even know what it is when you say it in the French name it has.
00:07:39
Speaker 1: She is about food, so to then.
00:07:46
Speaker 2: Know that that's your brand. And then to talk about people who don't have.
00:07:50
Speaker 1: I don't have that.
00:07:51
Speaker 2: That is just extra hard to get your head around.
00:07:55
Speaker 1: And she has issued not one, but two apologies. And it seemed like the second apology was an apology for the first apology that she sent. We're going to share both of those. I want to get back to this table, baby. How many people do you have to have at a table before one of them Has the thought that this is a bad idea?
00:08:14
Speaker 2: Oh, I think all of them had the thought.
00:08:15
Speaker 1: That they didn't say it?
00:08:17
Speaker 2: Yes. Oh, okay. I don't think, especially if you have younger folks around you, which I think she does. I mean, we used to see her entourage coming. I happen to know somebody who's a part of that inner circle. I know they thought it. The question is, and this is like we think about when Trump posts what he posts, when certain folks say things, if you've got a strong personality, you're of a certain age, you have a certain reputation, you have been the head and the CEO and the person who makes all the decisions, who feels empowered to tell you you're wrong?
00:08:55
Speaker 1: They should all be fired. Aren't they there to protect her and the brand?
00:08:59
Speaker 2: But obviously, I would think someone has experienced someone pushing back and saw it didn't go well for that person. So in order to protect your job, best to say, that's such a good idea.
00:09:11
Speaker 1: But it's better to protect your job than protect the person you're there to protect, which is Martha Stewart.
00:09:15
Speaker 2: Everyone's always looking out for themselves.
00:09:16
Speaker 1: How do you not... how do you let this lady go out and do this? So the picture, she's standing, it looks like a porch on the back. It's not out at a public event.
00:09:24
Speaker 2: No, it looks like it's her home. Okay.
00:09:26
Speaker 1: She's been to some public events before in her outfits, right? This was not the case. So no indication I've seen anywhere that she actually went out to something in this, right?
00:09:33
Speaker 2: No, it looked like it was absolutely for Instagram. Even her dogs look sad. Did you see in the picture, like they had their head tilted. It looked, you know, when homeless folks who are experiencing homelessness have animals sometimes to get people to get more money.
00:09:46
Speaker 1: You thought that was part of it?
00:09:48
Speaker 2: It did kind of remind me of, look, here in New York City, we see a lot of people in this experience, and not many, but some of them have animals with them to garner extra sympathy to get more money in the bowl or the bag they have out with their sign. It read like that for me. The dogs being there looked sad, and it kind of mimicked what you see on a street corner here in New York.
00:10:13
Speaker 1: And she had a sad look, like she was making a face, right?
00:10:15
Speaker 2: They all had sad faces, including the dog.
00:10:17
Speaker 1: But she was making one, like a whole exaggerated face.
00:10:20
Speaker 2: Okay. Yes.
00:10:21
Speaker 1: So backlash comes hard, swift. I don't see too many who are defending this. Obviously, it's not the worst thing that someone is going to do on Halloween, but still, it did send a message, and it wasn't a good one. She issued an apology. This was apology number one that we'll share. and this was the one that I would argue made things worse.
00:10:46
Speaker 2: Isn't it you always say it's not the crime, it's the cover up or maybe even just, yes, because this was, it wasn't a cover up but it was a defense that didn't land. Her first apology read as follows. I am distressed that my Halloween costume yesterday, which was intended to bring more awareness to the very serious subject of homelessness, has offended people. which was never my intention. Homelessness continues to remain one of America's greatest challenges in ongoing crises, something that I care deeply about and I have spent a significant amount of time and effort supporting charities that combat this ongoing social epidemic. Here's the problem with that. Nowhere in her post Did she mention homelessness? Did she talk about the seriousness of it? Did she use her Halloween costume to give a link to donate to soup kitchens or to any organization, these charities she mentions, that could help aid in folks who are experiencing homelessness? So to say that when there was no mention of it in the initial post doesn't feel authentic.
00:11:53
Speaker 1: This one feels like she got help. This one feels like someone came with a PR strategy and saying this is what we should do and wrote this up and say, how does this sound? This will work. You have done, and I believe she probably has somewhere in her career, done something with people who are experiencing homelessness.
00:12:10
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sure she has too.
00:12:10
Speaker 1: Folks who are less fortunate. Yes. Robes doing this sounded horrible. That statement was worse than the picture itself.
00:12:20
Speaker 2: It was. Because she thinks we're stupid.
00:12:25
Speaker 1: Babe, that's a tough statement. Intended to bring more awareness to the very serious subject of homelessness. You have 364 other days of the year to do. It's just, it was one of those things, babe, you feel like you're being gaslit.
00:12:38
Speaker 2: Well, it is. You are being gaslit because there's no way that that was the reason why she did or decided to post that photo of her depicting someone who was experiencing homelessness. If she had put it in her caption when she posted it, then okay, that would have read as the intent. She mentioned her QVC Halloween candles on the post. She did not mention, she did not provide a link, she did not encourage people on this day when we're passing out candy and having fun to also remember those who are less fortunate. She had no mention of that specific issue. And I take issue with her talking about in the apology the very serious subject Exactly.
00:13:22
Speaker 1: Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.
00:13:24
Speaker 2: If it is a very serious subject, which I think we can all agree it is, why would you then put it in a cutesy Halloween post where you play acting sad that you're hungry? That's not serious. That's being playful. That's being funny. That's not serious. That's the opposite of serious.
00:13:42
Speaker 1: When you said that, it was... Even if, babe, it was well intended. Even if she had a long caption with links to other things, it's still not okay.
00:13:52
Speaker 2: It wouldn't have been.
00:13:53
Speaker 1: For the fun of it to go about it this way. Martha Stewart messed up.
00:13:57
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:13:58
Speaker 1: She messed up. She realizes later that she messed up and she realized that that statement was also wrong. not good enough. And I don't know when, you were the one that brought it up to me, the picture of her in a soup, no, the soup thing, where she was serving a soup recipe or something.
00:14:14
Speaker 2: Yes, sorry, so she deletes that Halloween post, right? And the next one that comes up, apparently, she's giving a recipe for some sort of a soup. So you can imagine folks jumped on that and were like, wow, maybe you could send this delicious soup that you're making to a soup kitchen to make up for the fact that you were making fun of people who couldn't afford.
00:14:34
Speaker 1: So she is, at this point, it's all rolling downhill, right?
00:14:38
Speaker 2: Well, because everything she does, most of what she posts are recipes for food. So now you've just done a whole Halloween thing. get up, making fun of, I would think most people, or at least making light of people who don't have money to have shelter or food. And now you're saying, here's a delicious recipe. Now everything you do brings up that picture that conjures that image of you making light of folks who are homeless.
00:15:08
Speaker 1: And look, I think you as well, but huge fans of Martha Stewart. And it seems odd to say, but really, Rose, when my first job out of college, you know how I sleep with the TV on all night. Yes, I do. You know what I watch now? Snaps.
00:15:23
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:15:24
Speaker 1: That show to just be on in the background. It used to be Martha Stewart living because it came on at these odd hours, like midnight to two or somewhere in Joplin, Missouri. That's what I slept to. That's what I watched every single night.
00:15:37
Speaker 2: Just what Martha Stewart wants to hear, I'm sure.
00:15:40
Speaker 1: And Rose, she taught me how to crack eggs. I still remember to this day her doing a story about how you crack it hard, one thing. Something about chewing gum while you're cutting onions. Robes. I remember Martha Stewart. We've had the pleasure of being around her on random occasions just because of what we do and where we go and whatnot. I like Martha Stewart, and I can say, and she understands this is a mess up without it being the end of the world and telling her she's the worst person in the world. She made a mistake. She's apologized. I get that. But this was such a glaring mistake. obvious and easy thing not to do. Yeah.
00:16:17
Speaker 2: I mean, to your point, I think I would think most people respect the hell out of Martha Stewart for all of those reasons you mentioned and then some. But while she is someone who I think has earned our respect, having been around her and knowing people who work with her, I think it's fair to say, and I've watched that documentary, by the way, it's so good on Martha Stewart.
00:16:38
Speaker 1: It's so good.
00:16:39
Speaker 2: She's a badass. But she is intimidating. She is an intimidating person. When I had been around her, when I had to do a segment with her, I got to tell you, I was nervous. And it's funny, like all the people we interview and a lot of them controversial, you have to ask tough questions. being around Martha Stewart on live television made me nervous. Because if you grabbed the wrong thing or you didn't do what she told you to do, she'd snap at you. And so you want to get it right because it's Martha Stewart. And I just think even me feeling that way doing a live television segment with her, and she wasn't rude or mean, she's just intimidating. I'm just saying the people around her, I would imagine, feel intimidated by her and don't feel comfortable telling her when she might be making a massive mistake.
00:17:25
Speaker 1: That should be the conversation in her room. Now, guys, you gotta raise your hand. Maybe she should be mad at them. Nobody saw this coming. Why didn't you say anything? Can really a group of five to 10 people out of all of them say, we don't even know what they're upset about. It's hard to understand that she could make this kind of misstep. And look, babe, it's about the intimidation. Look, we have seen her You know what we don't see her? Emote. She is a steady and pleasant woman. Almost grandmotherly in the way she talks and speaks and comes across all the time is that thing.
00:18:05
Speaker 2: Direct.
00:18:06
Speaker 1: Very direct. What do people get more of as they age? More set in their ways. More direct. I ain't got time to BS. She's 85.
00:18:15
Speaker 2: Stubborn too, though.
00:18:17
Speaker 1: Yes, to that point. Exactly that thing, babe. So What you're saying there reads. It makes sense. that you can't tell if she likes you or she doesn't like you. No, you cannot, you cannot. If she hates you, if she loves you, if she wants to punch you or hug you, you can't tell.
00:18:33
Speaker 2: And instead of, I agree, and I would just think maybe this is an opportunity because I don't think you're ever too old to learn and to grow and to evolve. And I think she would probably agree with that. She's lived enough years.
00:18:44
Speaker 1: And she's been evolving her whole career.
00:18:46
Speaker 2: Yes, but maybe instead of going around the table and asking all of her people, why didn't you tell me? Why didn't you say something? Maybe she should turn it inward and say, why have I created an environment where my own people are too afraid to say the truth to me?
00:19:03
Speaker 1: That's good. You're right. I mean, we talk about this all the time with President Trump.
00:19:17
Speaker 2: You have to ask yourself, there is a reason why nobody is willing to to tell you the truth if it goes against something that you've expressed you want or you've expressed you think is correct. You have to ask yourself, have I created an environment where everyone is so afraid of my wrath that they'd rather say nothing, even if it would be to my benefit, rather than to deal with my anger in that moment.
00:19:46
Speaker 1: So as we said, she did robes after that stunt. apology. It was stunning to hear that. Did she read the reactions? Did she figure it out on her own? I don't know what, but that apology we just read to you led her to a short time later, at least what the following Monday morning, I think, put out another statement robes and this addressed that that first one didn't get it done.
00:20:13
Speaker 2: When you have to put out two statements.
00:20:15
Speaker 1: To apologize for the same thing. And if you have to apologize for your first apology. That's tough. It's not going well.
00:20:23
Speaker 2: Especially Martha Stewart. You just would not think that she wouldn't have gotten, well, she wouldn't have gotten the first thing wrong in the first place, but then to get the apology wrong, to have to do a second apology, she's spinning right now. The second apology reads, It's hard to admit when you've really screwed up. My earlier statement didn't go far enough. I know many people are suffering economically. Wearing a costume like I did was insensitive and not funny. I am very sorry, Martha.
00:20:55
Speaker 1: What do you think?
00:20:57
Speaker 2: So here's what I think. By her saying wearing a costume like I did was insensitive and not funny implies that she did think it was funny to begin with. it implies that it wasn't a statement about raising awareness of homelessness. It's about acknowledging, actually, that her first statement might have kind of been a lie. Because I'm reading it like she's acknowledging that she actually thought it was funny. Am I wrong to read it that way?
00:21:30
Speaker 1: No, I get why you're possibly reading it that way, but this was written in such a short, direct... didn't leave a lot of room, didn't explain a whole lot, is what I'm saying. It wasn't funny. It was incentive. People are hurting. Earlier statement sucked. I'm sorry. That was it. I mean, it didn't go as far. Like, look at all, you know, I go back. It's Harry and Meghan. I don't know where I picked this up from Harry, Prince Harry, years ago, but the mantra for the royal family, don't complain and don't explain. And if you had to use that many words to explain yourself the first time and still not get it done, the second one is much shorter, but I thought needed to be much longer.
00:22:13
Speaker 2: Yes, because when she said my earlier statement didn't go far enough, I would argue that her statement earlier went too far.
00:22:22
Speaker 1: Down the wrong path.
00:22:24
Speaker 2: Don't tell us that the Halloween costume was to raise awareness when it clearly was not. And then... To just say it didn't go far enough. No, it went to places it should never have gone. That's the whole point.
00:22:39
Speaker 1: My question, by saying it didn't go far enough, suggests Rose... She should say more. to attach to that statement, not take some things out. That's what I'm saying. It didn't go far enough. I should have said this other thing. What other thing? Robes, oh, Martha, we love your sister. She knows this is a mess up. This will go away eventually, whatever. But people are going to have a hard time, and they are dumping on her as much as they can. But Robes, that, oh, my God. To be in that PR war room with Martha Stewart, to hear how that's going down. Now, that's a documentary. I would watch just a Halloween documentary behind the scenes of the hobo outfit.
00:23:19
Speaker 2: Woo! The hobo outfit.
00:23:22
Speaker 1: Do they use hobo anymore?
00:23:23
Speaker 2: No, I think that's a term from the, like, back in the day when they talked about carpetbaggers and things like that. Like, we're talking it's old school hobo. You know, with the branch, with the knapsack.
00:23:36
Speaker 1: I thought that was a runaway.
00:23:37
Speaker 2: Well, but it was a hobo, too. You're just jumping on trains and going back and forth.
00:23:41
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, I know what you're talking about. The red and white polka dot bag at the end of the thing. Where do they always get those polka dot wrappers?
00:23:49
Speaker 2: I don't know, it was like a scarf, like a makeshift scarf. I feel like, was that in cartoons even? Like, it was back in the day.
00:23:56
Speaker 1: Didn't go far enough. There, if she wanted to say more, she started with, the idea was born from my mind and my mind only. Nobody on my staff, blah, blah, blah. Or, when it was brought to me, we were thinking, blah, blah, blah. If you want to explain, go ahead and explain and take more responsibility to put it on you and not anybody else. Because right now I'm putting it on a lot of other people. She knows she's ultimately the one who put it on. Ro, she sat in a chair.
00:24:24
Speaker 2: And as they were putting makeup on her face to replicate dirt, she was still thinking this was a good idea?
00:24:32
Speaker 1: There were steps. What was the jacket? Do you have the picture in front of you?
00:24:35
Speaker 2: Oh, I have to go pull it back up, but I do have it available.
00:24:37
Speaker 1: It's hard to think she just opened a closet. Let me just throw this on. I don't have anything. Maybe she was a last minute thing. She didn't plan anything out this year. You think about that?
00:24:45
Speaker 2: No, I don't. You don't buy that? That doesn't sound like Martha Stewart. That doesn't sound like Martha Stewart.
00:24:51
Speaker 1: But Halloween can sneak up on you. Do you have the picture?
00:24:54
Speaker 2: I do. I'm looking at it.
00:24:55
Speaker 1: Okay. Does it look like the jacket and things were detailed by someone versus just she ripped a little bit?
00:25:02
Speaker 2: No, she had the ripped jeans. She had a sweater that had holes in it. She had a flannel shirt underneath. It was actually kind of curated, pulled up. She had a beanie because it's cold outside. She had a really sad look on her face. Again, the dog's sad look on their faces. I am hungry, help me! With two exclamation points.
00:25:22
Speaker 1: That was an easy sign. It looks almost like a last minute outfit. Does it not? It doesn't look elaborate.
00:25:29
Speaker 2: It's not elaborate, but the makeup took a little bit of time. Dirt all over her face.
00:25:34
Speaker 1: So maybe that's it. If she'd have said that, I would have listened to that. I threw something together right quick, and I failed miserably. I don't know.
00:25:43
Speaker 2: Something that makes more sense than saying you did it deliberately to raise awareness.
00:25:48
Speaker 1: What's going to happen with this now? This will go away after a few days. We got the midterms. Everything's going away after Tuesday.
00:25:54
Speaker 2: You know what? So often is the case. Any controversy, any scandal is... lives only as long as the next big news cycle. Sometimes, unfortunately for folks who are caught in it, it's just a quiet time. Fortunately for Martha Stewart, it's a very busy time in our country, and this will soon be forgotten. I do believe that.
00:26:14
Speaker 1: Then I think of the other thing. I thought you were going a different direction. It's a very busy time for Martha Stewart. It's the holidays.
00:26:20
Speaker 2: Well, it is. As I said that I also know, and we know this, once something like this sticks to you and it's related to her brand... because she's talking about food, because she's talking about food prep and recipes and feeding your family, It is all there. She is now going to every post. There is always going to be, there are going to be those folks who just dog her, dog her, dog her on the comments. I bet you there will always be comments of people bringing this back up. Will she outlive it?
00:26:50
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:26:51
Speaker 2: Will it destroy her brand? No, but I do think she's going to have to walk because people just don't let this kind of thing go. And if they think, especially they can take someone down who's on top, People love that. And I hate it because it's just an awful way to live that you feel better when you can take someone else down. But there are plenty of people out there who do live by that, whether they realize it or recognize it or not. And I do think she'll probably always have to have her social media manager. You can filter out certain comments with words. So homeless will be one of the words that will be filtered out of every comment because, yeah, this will be a full-time job for somebody.
00:27:32
Speaker 1: Okay. Let me ask this question. What you would have said to Martha Stewart? Okay. But I want you to do it in the context of that fearful anchor you were having to do a segment with her.
00:27:46
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:27:47
Speaker 1: In that mindset, that same woman that you're scared to death of just doing a segment, If you're on that staff, if you saw her wanting to do this, what do you say to her?
00:27:57
Speaker 2: I would just say any chance you think this could be taken the wrong way, you, Martha Stewart, who is just the guru of food prep and feeding families, talking about someone who can't afford to feed themselves, that could be taken the wrong way. Have we considered that? That's probably what I would have said. How about you?
00:28:22
Speaker 1: I don't know if I would have... Yes, you said it in the way that maybe a subordinate is supposed to say to their boss. Like, is there any chance that maybe.
00:28:31
Speaker 2: Just raising a possibility here.
00:28:33
Speaker 1: Someone should say more forcefully, I really believe this is going to be bad because you're dressing yourself for fun in somebody else's life and pain. That's always bad.
00:28:43
Speaker 2: That was effective.
00:28:45
Speaker 1: That's it.
00:28:45
Speaker 2: That was effective.
00:28:47
Speaker 1: So, do you, Martha? And I'm going to be here to support you, but this is... Likely going to be a problem media-wise. And forget that. What's it worth? Let me just ask you, Martha, why would you want to do this? Would you walk down the street in New York, in Manhattan, wearing this on Halloween?
00:29:10
Speaker 2: That's a good question.
00:29:10
Speaker 1: Or if you wouldn't, why would you? And then that is your answer to what you should do with this.
00:29:16
Speaker 2: So smart.
00:29:17
Speaker 1: That's it, baby. This is madness.
00:29:19
Speaker 2: That's smart because you appeal to her. Ask her the question. Have her answer it. Have her come to the realization that that isn't a safe or smart way forward. And I've always believed this. I talk about this a lot. As a parent, I used to always ask my kids, I have to ask myself this, what's your goal? What was her purpose? Was it, was it to be playful or have fun? And then if you, if your answer is it's at someone else's expense, it's at a group of people's expense, it's never worth it.
00:29:50
Speaker 1: Man, that should be the, every celebrity should have that criteria. You just let, does it this, does it this and does it this? And if so, You shouldn't wear it.
00:29:59
Speaker 2: Abort, abort, abort.
00:30:00
Speaker 1: I would have given her maybe some other options for Martha. I said, try blackface. Maybe you could do that this year.
00:30:07
Speaker 2: That's worked well for plenty of other celebrities.
00:30:09
Speaker 1: You know what? No, don't do homeless. Do blackface.
00:30:12
Speaker 2: Wow. I feel like you want to believe that that ship has sailed, that everyone has gotten the memo that that is never, ever an okay thing. I actually heard people trying to do honey face instead of blackface. What's that? I think, who played Barack Obama on SNL?
00:30:31
Speaker 1: On SNL?
00:30:33
Speaker 2: He was, I can't think of his name right now, but he's a white guy, and he was like, I don't think I can do blackface, so I'm doing honey face, which is like, just slightly... More offensive.
00:30:45
Speaker 1: Don't do me like that. Honeyface.
00:30:48
Speaker 2: Armistead. Fred Armistead. That's his name. I was trying to think of his name. He played Barack Obama. And he was struggling between how do I play Barack Obama.
00:30:57
Speaker 1: So you said SNL essentially did Blackface?
00:30:59
Speaker 2: They called it Honeyface.
00:31:00
Speaker 1: But it was Blackface. See, I don't remember that character. I remember Fred Amherst did. I don't remember him doing it.
00:31:06
Speaker 2: Yes, and he even talked about how he was threading a needle. But I even remember Megyn Kelly talking about Halloween costumes in 2018. Remember that show she had on NBC for a hot second? And it was not getting good ratings and she was getting lambasted for the segment she was doing that was just completely not in character with what, she's a hard news political type of reporter and she was talking about how to organize your closet. So there were a lot of things that were going on with that show that didn't end well. But the final nail in her coffin was her having a round table conversation about Halloween costumes and in October of 2018, and she said that she felt like it was okay to do blackface as long as you were being a character, you were in character.
00:31:53
Speaker 1: But do I remember this right? It wasn't necessarily a big part of the segment. It came out of just left field.
00:31:58
Speaker 2: She decided to just say, and there were, I believe there were one or two black, guests on the panel when she said it. Okay, here it was. Okay, when I was a kid, as long as you were dressing like a character, it was fine. She was defending wearing blackface. They were having like a hot topics kind of conversation. And she said that, and that was it for her. She was done. I had forgotten about that. But Business Insider had like the 21 celebrities who did blackface. And I actually couldn't believe how mad I was Shocked. You have a few of them that are memorable that you wrote out. Julianna Hough was the big one.
00:32:45
Speaker 1: I don't remember her doing this.
00:32:47
Speaker 2: I do.
00:32:48
Speaker 1: I don't. This wasn't how terribly long ago.
00:32:50
Speaker 2: Not that long ago.
00:32:51
Speaker 1: Crazy eyes from.
00:32:53
Speaker 2: Orange is the New Black, and one of my favorite characters, but not one that I would ever try to dress up as for Halloween.
00:33:00
Speaker 1: She was bronze-ish, wasn't she?
00:33:05
Speaker 2: She was like a honey face. It was the same kind of thing. I didn't even know that was a term.
00:33:08
Speaker 1: We have a list of things you cannot say.
00:33:11
Speaker 2: I can't ever say that again.
00:33:13
Speaker 1: Honey face is one of them.
00:33:14
Speaker 2: I was reading what they wrote.
00:33:15
Speaker 1: To promenade and pied-a-terre. Those are things we do not say. In the house. So yeah, who else do you have that did blackface?
00:33:23
Speaker 2: Oh, I have a bunch. Like they have, like they've got Justin Trudeau, but remember that?
00:33:31
Speaker 1: Oh, snap. He got into a whole bunch.
00:33:34
Speaker 2: Virginia Governor Ralph Northam once painted his face with shoe polish as a part of a Michael Jackson costume. One of the Real Housewives, Luann Lucefis, she just wore, and she did get darker. She did put tanning cream. She wore a Diana Ross costume. Afro, she was Diana Ross. There was, I'm trying to think of the other ones. I mean, it's a lot. Oh, I didn't realize this. Joy Behar proudly... showed a picture of her dressed up as a beautiful African woman for Halloween. Um, that was back in 2016, but she didn't even realize that that was going to create backlash.
00:34:09
Speaker 1: But that was from that year. It wasn't like an old picture.
00:34:11
Speaker 2: It was an old picture. It was an old picture, but she was proudly displaying it. Like didn't realize that maybe back then it wasn't considered or wasn't recognized as being offensive, but the fact that she didn't recognize it, um, Oh, Alabama Governor Kay Ivey had to apologize for wearing blackface when she was a student in the 60s. The Justin Trudeau one is hilarious.
00:34:35
Speaker 1: In the 60s? That's like the worst blackface ever.
00:34:37
Speaker 2: Right during the civil rights era. Jimmy Kimmel did Carl Malone. He dressed up repeatedly as Carl Malone with blackface. Jimmy Fallon wore blackface playing Chris Rock in a sketch.
00:34:49
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ.
00:34:50
Speaker 2: And I'm looking at these pictures and it's, It's so offensive now. I cannot believe it was okay.
00:34:55
Speaker 1: Public service announcement. Does it need to be said again and again? I don't know why folks get offended that they are offending people. Like you actually think. And a lot of people, maybe your daughters, don't know this history of minstrel shows. They don't know how we have been.
00:35:11
Speaker 2: Oh, Ava does because of NYU.
00:35:13
Speaker 1: We're just caricatures to make fun of us. And when you do that, you're not dressing up as MLK. No. You're not dressing up. You're dressing up as Kanye West and whatnot.
00:35:27
Speaker 2: That was the American Horror Story actor.
00:35:29
Speaker 1: Don't do it. There's nothing else to talk about. If there is a black character you love and want to be, you're just going to have to have your regular white face to go along with it.
00:35:40
Speaker 2: That's just it.
00:35:41
Speaker 1: It's offensive. It's awful. It's awful. Awful. Just don't do it. There's no next thing.
00:35:46
Speaker 2: There's no explanation. There's no justification. You cannot do it. I also forgot about this. You were called Sean White, the Olympian. Dressing as Simple Jack. And, like, talk about Tropic Thunder, period. They've got blackface in that. You've also got Ben Stiller's character.
00:36:03
Speaker 1: Got an Academy Award nomination for playing blackface, by the way.
00:36:06
Speaker 2: Mr.
00:36:06
Speaker 1: Robert Downey Jr., he sure did.
00:36:08
Speaker 2: But why is that okay?
00:36:09
Speaker 1: It's okay because most of the people voting at that time for an Oscar see that as what a black person acts like. Yeah, that works. He nailed being a Negro. He nailed it. This is a white boy. He nailed it. nomination, at least. He didn't win.
00:36:29
Speaker 2: My God.
00:36:29
Speaker 1: That's one of those, it's bizarre, babe. I know, I know. It's just the expectation of what black is and what black should be. It's wild. It's wild. So, just please, once again, folks, just don't do it. I don't, why are you defending even somebody to push back? Well, I should be able to, huh?
00:36:50
Speaker 2: Don't dress up as a marginalized person A person of any, like anyone who is basically in a position where you feel superior to them, don't dress up as them as a joke.
00:37:06
Speaker 1: Because you can make fun of them. And then when you get done with your black face on Halloween, I got to still be black for the rest of the year. For the rest of my life.
00:37:16
Speaker 2: That's a good way to put it.
00:37:17
Speaker 1: You have fun one night. Awesome. It's just people just don't do it.
00:37:22
Speaker 2: Don't do it. Every year, though. Every year.
00:37:26
Speaker 1: Julia Fox, did you remember this one? You saw that picture?
00:37:29
Speaker 2: I did not remember this.
00:37:30
Speaker 1: Actress Julia Fox, but she wore Jackie Kennedy's replica suit that she was in when her husband was shot and killed. But she wore it, had the bloodstains on it.
00:37:39
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:37:39
Speaker 1: And she explained it later by saying, well, it was a part of the story. Jackie Kennedy refused to change clothes. When all that was going on, she had that dress on for a while. she claimed, well, I was trying to be representative of that thing. It just, that's a tough one to come across.
00:37:54
Speaker 2: No.
00:37:54
Speaker 1: To try to get across.
00:37:54
Speaker 2: There are some things that are just insensitive. There are some things that are cruel. There are some things that are just not funny. And especially when you have a platform and you have people looking to you and looking up at you, you have an extra responsibility to not marginalize or make fun of or joke about or entertain at someone else's experience's expense, basically, is maybe the way you could put it.
00:38:25
Speaker 1: And Martha Stewart did do that. She's apologized twice. We'll see if we get a third. But, folks, we appreciate you, as always. I'm TJ. That's Robes. We'll see you soon.