Oct. 13, 2026
New Press Secretary Nervously, Abruptly Ends First Presser; Networks Already Predicting Her Demise
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RSS Feed Trump’s new press secretary, 41-year-old Katie Zacharia is becoming her own headline after making her debut today in her first press conference. Zacharia looked and sounded nervous in her first outing infront of the White House Press Corps, reading from her notes and only calling on three reporters, all from conservative networks. She shockingly only held a 13 minute press briefing, which left news outlets without the ability to ask any questions and the resulting headlines are now questioning just how long Zacharia will last in the position.
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00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hey there, folks. It is Tuesday, October 13th, and just a short time ago, the brand new White House press secretary held her first White House press briefing. And as my sister Tish would say, bless her heart. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ Robes. Surely she's going to be critiqued. Should we critique it in two different ways? One, just as the performance of the White House press secretary and the performance of the White House press secretary on her first day on the job. Got to give her a little bit of a break, right?
00:00:37
Speaker 2: Absolutely. And look, I will say that that is one of the toughest public-facing jobs in the world, period. It is incredibly nerve-wracking. You are facing off and giving information to and answering questions from seasoned, veteran journalists who know how to ask questions. They know what, how to follow up with in tough ways. She never even faced tough questions though. She never had a tough followup. She didn't actually have a mainstream member of the press. I guess what president Trump would call fake news or the lamestream press. actually even ask her a question. Every question, I believe, and she only answered three, came from friendly faces and friendly organizations.
00:01:36
Speaker 1: Robes, it lasted 14 minutes. How many of it was her opening statement?
00:01:42
Speaker 2: Eight minutes was her, what I believe some people are calling a monologue, because she was just reading from a paper. And look, yes, she was nervous. And I think, yes, that's to be expected. Her voice was a little shaky. She bobbled some words. She, we'll get into it, referred to her husband as the president. All of that, I understand. Even in Carolyn Leavitt's first opening to the press, she had a little bit of a slip in terms of she conflated two words and we laughed at it because we've been there. We've done that. We know what it's like.
00:02:14
Speaker 1: We've laughed at it for a while.
00:02:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have it in my notes, actually.
00:02:17
Speaker 1: Carolyn Leavitt was trying to say to the first reporter who asked her a question, Thank you for being here with us. Thank you for being here with us. Thank you for being here with us. And it came out as, thank you for being us with here.
00:02:32
Speaker 3: Yes.
00:02:32
Speaker 1: Now, that seems impossible for a mind to do. But Rose, she was nervous, and she handled herself fine. This young lady was nervous. And it's understandable, baby.
00:02:43
Speaker 2: She was nervous. I don't know how much public speaking she's done. Tons.
00:02:47
Speaker 1: Tons. Tons.
00:02:50
Speaker 2: That's a little shocking to me.
00:02:51
Speaker 1: She touts herself. Robes, she is an on-air legal analyst and expert. She goes around. That's what she does, is talk and make appearances on Fox News, on Newsmax. Robes, this is what she does. So it's a little.
00:03:07
Speaker 2: Perplexing.
00:03:08
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:03:08
Speaker 2: Look, and I'm not here to bash her or... Give her a break, yes.
00:03:13
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
00:03:14
Speaker 2: I have been nervous before. I have conflated words before. Obviously... I think we understand more than most just how tough it was to get up there in front of this gaggle of reporters. But she knows she's literally getting up there in front of the world and that everyone is going to critique what she said, how she said it. And that on your first day is a lot to say. deal with. However, I would give her all of that. I just think she came off, unfortunately for her, as wildly unprepared, possibly way in over her head. And it's hard to imagine, but I hope she does surprise us all that she's going to be able to fill the shoes of Carolyn Leavitt.
00:04:02
Speaker 1: Hopefully she'll be fine. It was a rough start, and it was a surprising start. It was an awkward start. It was weird to a certain degree, and yes, it was abrupt. The president was leaving, yes, heading to Alaska to do some campaigning. Fine. She had to catch him. The flight.
00:04:18
Speaker 2: Don't you feel like that was manufactured so she didn't have to stand in front of the press for very long or answer any extra questions?
00:04:25
Speaker 1: But, Rob, it was announced. When did they announce she got the job? On Friday?
00:04:29
Speaker 3: Yes.
00:04:30
Speaker 1: He said that she was going to start on Monday, Columbus Day, so she was engaged. And then Tuesday, baby? Robes, there's no way. I would stand up to the president and say, sir, I'm not ready. I just got the gig. Robes, we've heard some former press secretaries on TV talking about going essentially to war school, if you will, sitting in there for eight hours a day for a month getting briefings about stuff. This young lady got the job on Friday. She's there on Tuesday.
00:04:57
Speaker 2: And that's the problem. If she didn't have enough time to put in those eight-hour days where she needed to do nothing but studyâ Trump policy, what's happening in the world. I mean, it's a lot to get read in on. We understand we do this for a living every single day. And the toughest job I ever had, maybe it's right now here doing what we're doing. But before that, it was absolutely as a cable news anchor at MSNBC. And I don't know if the same is true for you with CNN, but you have to know something about everything. And when you don't know something, you have to be willing to admit it. Now, she did. The only question she got about policy, she absolutely said, we'll have to get back to you. And then that, I think, threw her even more. The thing is, when you say, we'll have to get back to you, you need to say, but I can tell you this. You always have to have a nugget of information to provide to not look like you're just sitting there without any information. If you're the press secretary, that is your job to disseminate information to to talk about policy, to talk about what the Trump administration is doing, and to answer questions about any sort of critiques about what they're doing or not doing. And it just seemed like she didn't even have basic knowledge about basic things. And she only got asked questions from three reporters.
00:06:17
Speaker 1: Three reporters. One was from Breitbart. Okay, that is a right-leaning conservative outlet. The next one was from Fox News. Don't need to explain what that's about. The third one, I didn't hear who it was from, but that third person asked a question. One that got the news of the day, which was Kimberly Guilford, was asked to resign. But then the second question she asked, it was about her motherhood. Okay. And I guess that, but babe, three, she called on three people and was out of there. If you're telling me the first eight minutes were her talking. And then, so she took five.
00:06:49
Speaker 2: Minutes of questions and all of them were softballs, except for when I believe it was at Steve Ducey who asked the followup about Ukraine. Peter Ducey.
00:06:58
Speaker 1: Who's Peter? Who's the dad?
00:06:59
Speaker 2: I get confused.
00:06:59
Speaker 1: The younger one's Peter, I think. Peter Ducey.
00:07:01
Speaker 2: Yeah. Peter Ducey. Okay. He asked about, uh, Ukraine and how would she not have anticipated a question about Ukraine?
00:07:10
Speaker 1: That's the one she said. I had to get back.
00:07:11
Speaker 2: She said, I'll have to get back to you. But then she had nothing to offer. But I can tell you that the president is standing by his decision and You know, whatever. Like, she needed to have something to say.
00:07:31
Speaker 1: But that's a matter of skill, is it not? That part is skill. Even if she didn't have any extra info that they gave her. Robes, if somebody asked you a question about Ukraine you didn't know, you could bullshit your way out of it.
00:07:42
Speaker 2: Ab- Absolutely.
00:07:43
Speaker 1: Say, you know what? The president specifically, we haven't discussed that, but we are going to be hopping on the plane here shortly. You just talk.
00:07:49
Speaker 2: Yes, and just say, we're going to get that information to you shortly, but he's still deciding about X, Y, and Z, and he's the one who will be able to tell you. But she kept just saying, ask him when he goes to the helipad, when we head off.
00:08:02
Speaker 1: She did say that a couple times.
00:08:03
Speaker 2: She was like, just ask him. And I just, it was bizarre. And look, obviously, you can imagine what people are saying about Their impressions of her performance. And some of the, you know, when you watch the cable news outlets, they'll have what we call them lower thirds. But basically it's the information at the bottom of the screen, a headline basically for a cable news outlet. CNN's read like. White House officials question if Trump will keep new press secretary. The other one was debut and done. I mean, they were already going after her saying her days are numbered.
00:08:41
Speaker 1: That wasn't just CNN. What they were saying was that they were talking to sources in the White House who were giving their impression of how this young lady did on day one. And they were saying, yeah, we don't think she's going to be around long.
00:08:55
Speaker 2: Even White House officials objected. These were unnamed sources. They were anonymous, but attributed to the White House, saying that they called her performance unusual, another one calling it brutal.
00:09:07
Speaker 1: I see that a lot.
00:09:08
Speaker 2: And this was the worst one of them all. MS Now had, this is what they had to say, Zakaria is on track to shatter former White House comms director Anthony Scaramucci's time at the helm, which lasted a scant 10 days during President Trump's first term in 2017. And so they're saying that she may beat him in terms of the shortest-lived White House press secretary. That's not nice.
00:09:37
Speaker 1: She has been on the job in front of the press for 14 minutes. I'm willing to give her a beat, give her a break. This is a very difficult job. Now, others will say, yeah, and you got it. You're playing with the big boys now. You need to step in there and be able to do the job.
00:09:52
Speaker 2: And I think that is fair because look, she might not have had a lot of time to prepare, but the point being is, and we know she's a mom of four. because she talked about that, or at least she was asked about that. But yeah, you just need to say, hey, babe, husband, I need to spend these next five days doing nothing but getting ready for this press conference. Because look, a first impression is important. Yes, she can learn on the job in a way you kind of have to with that type of job. I don't know what other position would prepare you to be the press secretary if you didn't have a job in the media where you were ad-libbing and doing live coverage and speaking in front of a microphone in front of millions of people. If you don't have that job day in and day out, it is hard to start off and do it well.
00:10:39
Speaker 1: You know, the other very good point being made, she came from the outside. She's walking into a new environment. It's not like she was already in there, knew how things worked, and then got elevated to a peak. Rope, she's a brand new person walking in the White House, no matter how much she likes the president and his policies and his work for his companies. Rope, she ain't been in that building. She's new. She's brand new and having to get caught up that quickly. That's not her fault.
00:11:02
Speaker 2: Agreed. But to that point, it's interesting to have someone who is standing at that podium as the press secretary representing the president and the The only thing you really hear her say is how she's so excited to work for him and how he's an energetic president and claiming his attendance is at record highs at his rallies. It felt very North Korea-ish to me. It felt like I was watching state media read a report and this person is feigning enthusiasm and Because even when she was reading what she prepared, it didn't feel authentic or that it had true heart or meaning behind it. It felt weird and robotic and, yes, state media-esque to me when I was listening to it. It wasn't even like what she said, what she had prepared, that she even said with conviction.
00:11:56
Speaker 3: That's true.
00:11:57
Speaker 2: And that was hard for me to process.
00:12:00
Speaker 1: And what you're describing came out in the first 60 to 90 seconds of what she was saying. It started with praise for the president. I thought it was an odd line, too. I've wanted to work for this president for a long time. I didn't know what she meant.
00:12:13
Speaker 2: It makes me doubt her credibility and her authenticity. And then add to that her bizarre performance.
00:12:21
Speaker 1: But she's loyal, right? That's the credential, baby. That's the credential you need to work in this White House.
00:12:27
Speaker 2: Well, that's also the credential you need to work for any....
00:12:30
Speaker 1: Loyalty. Loyalty.
00:12:31
Speaker 2: Despot.
00:12:32
Speaker 3: Loyalty.
00:12:33
Speaker 2: Like, I'm sorry, but that's concerning.
00:12:36
Speaker 1: So you mentioned how nervous she got. Oh, yeah, you said she was talking about, we're going to let you hear. You know, we got three bits to play here for you. And yes, she comes off a little nervous. But one of the parts, I guess, Rose, that was most awkward is when she actually talked about her husband.
00:12:55
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:12:55
Speaker 1: And mixed it up. So take a listen to this. Sorry about that prematurely playing that for you all. But if you heard in the background, but I'm going to play this for you. But at one point she was asked to write about her kids.
00:13:05
Speaker 2: Yes. Right.
00:13:06
Speaker 1: And she has four. Look, that's a, is that a fair question?
00:13:10
Speaker 2: I think right off the bat, it was kind of like, honestly, that is for a piece that you put out that you sit down with people magazine and you let the people know, here's your new press secretary. I think when you only have five minutes of questions and, And this is somebody who is saying, I am here to represent the White House. The last question is, tell me about being a mom and how you're balancing it all. And Carolyn Leavitt left when she had her second child. Now you have four at home. And it was almost weird. She was defending herself. Well, I stayed home for six years. I stopped working for six years. And then and only then have I come back. And I vowed to spend every night with my children. And it was just weird. She had to prove something that She wasn't a bad mom by taking this job. I thought that was kind of offensive, too, as a woman.
00:13:57
Speaker 1: So this was part of her answer when she was talking about the kids and the family. Everybody's out in California, but they're going to be going back and forth. I think the kids are coming over soon because there's a birthday for one of them that's coming up. Okay, she's explaining all that, but this was weird.
00:14:13
Speaker 3: Spending evenings with my kids is completely unacceptable. So my husband, that's a good one, my husband is out here.
00:14:27
Speaker 1: Okay, maybe an innocent and even a funny slip, but given some of the other stuff you were talking about, the loyalty and how she's a fan, to mix that up?
00:14:37
Speaker 2: It was as if her only credential for the job is that she loves President Trump oh so, so, so, so, so much.
00:14:45
Speaker 1: But that's the only one you need. That's the only one that's necessary, is it not? I thought that was the case. That's all that matters. Pete Hegseth is the Secretary of Defense. He was at Fox before. I know he was in the military. But Robes go through a whole line of people he's put in place. They're loyal. Cash Patel? What was his credential? I'm not going after Cash Patel in his back, but I'm saying the resumes are light. What's at the top? What do you put at the top of your resume? Education, University of Arkansas, Bachelor of Arts, 1999. What do they put? Loyal to President Trump. That's the top thing you've got to have. And she seems to have it.
00:15:30
Speaker 2: She's loyal, yes. But I just think a lot of folks now, unfortunately, she got off on the wrong foot. And that is tough. First impressions do matter. I'm not saying she can't. Come back and be better prepared next time and wow us all. I hope she does. But it's tough when you make an impression like she did today.
00:15:50
Speaker 1: Well, tell me what you think about this.
00:15:53
Speaker 3: To build eight large-scale nuclear power plants, something we've needed as the United States and something President Trump promised on the campaign trail and something President Trump is delivering on just like he delivers on every promise. In addition to that, there is $ 54 billion tied to the Alaska LNG pipeline and terminal to service the Pacific Rim and sell fuel to our allies, as well as $ 22. 3 billion for a 6-gigawatt natural gas power facility in Texas.
00:16:31
Speaker 2: What is she even saying?
00:16:34
Speaker 1: And she's reading.
00:16:35
Speaker 2: So that's another thing to point out. She is reading this. And she couldn't read it in any sort of coherent way. I didn't understand what she was saying, and I believe she didn't understand what she was saying. And I think that's the bigger problem. I don't believe she knew what she was saying.
00:16:53
Speaker 1: Because she's new. Here it is. Go read it. She didn't have a handle. Robes, all of us know, if you read something that's new, you know, TV, we know this all the time. If you're reading a script live for the first time on TV, it comes across. If you have a handle on that information and reading it, you come off wrong. Okay, that's my point.
00:17:09
Speaker 2: So why wouldn't she have had a handle on it? She had a couple of days. I know it's not a lifetime, but to not to feel that insecure about information. And by the way, if you don't know what you're talking about. Maybe save that for the next press conference when you've had time to learn more about it. Speak on the things you know. And maybe this eight-minute monologue where it was like a mess. It was a mess. I didn't know half of what she was saying. And even when she was talking about the president in glowing terms, the feeling wasn't behind the words. She was just a robot sloppily reading things that she didn't even believe. So I didn't believe.
00:17:49
Speaker 1: First day jitters. Check this out.
00:17:52
Speaker 3: He had a historic one-day war, and now we have a booming economy and a great relationship with Venezuela.
00:18:02
Speaker 2: She didn't even believe that. She sighed in the middle of it.
00:18:08
Speaker 1: I just got to give her a pass. I just have to give her a pass on day one. I know, I know, I know. You know, it's like a rookie in the NFL and the NBA. Your first one, you might have some game jitters. You might have some jitters, but somebody might say, hey, you're a pro now. No excuses. I mean, yes, that's legit. You're a pro now. This is the big leagues. And she really needed to knock it out of the park today. And, babe, I don't even know if she got a single.
00:18:35
Speaker 2: No, I think she struck out.
00:18:36
Speaker 1: Do you think she might have struck out? But, folks, stay here. This wasn't the end of it. What happened after the press conference in the president's presence might be the thing that trips her up most. Stay here.
00:19:00
Speaker 2: Welcome back, everyone, to Amy and TJ. We got our first look and listen to President Trump's brand new White House press secretary, 41-year-old Katie Zachariah. And look, this is the truth. I had lowered expectations. I think a lot of us did. We know how tough that job is. We know how hard it is to stand in front of that lectern and face the media and the world. But she was far worse than I even expected her to be. I was cringing. I wasn't rooting for her to mess up. I actually, I don't ever want somebody... And someone who's representing the United States, someone who's representing the White House, I'm cheering her on.
00:19:45
Speaker 1: And I hope she's able.
00:19:47
Speaker 2: To come back and, and and I guess just I don't know what it is she's just I wouldn't even know what to tell her other than know what you're saying it's day one no mean what you say and say what you mean.
00:19:59
Speaker 1: Give her a beat it's 14 minutes shouldn't we all just give her a break ah you didn't nail it today don't worry It was 14 minutes that she's been in this job in front of the press. And wouldn't you say that most of the people in that room, no matter what you think about the White House press corps, was rooting for her today?
00:20:19
Speaker 2: And I don't know that people at home know that, but we know our colleagues in there. We've worked alongside them. I don't care who you vote for or what side of the aisle you're on. I don't think anybody wants to see somebody up there with a new job and a new opportunity who's excited to be there. I hate to use this phrase to publicly humiliate themselves, but she kind of did. It wasn't that bad. Maybe that's a little extreme, but you know what? I worry about her now going home, or I guess she's with the president now. Yeah. reading the reviews. And that's the hardest part. We know this. Everyone's commenting. All you have to do is turn on CNN, MSNBC. And I know she can chalk it up to say, oh, they were against me anyway. They're the liberal media. They're the fake news. They were always going to say bad things about me. They were never going to be okay with my delivery. But look, as much as people couldn't stand Carolyn Lovett in a lot of ways because of what she said, I don't think she got this type of review.
00:21:19
Speaker 1: I mean, she was loyal to the president, but she was rapid fire. I mean, she held her own.
00:21:25
Speaker 2: She was impressive. I thought she was, for the most part, she was pretty impressive.
00:21:29
Speaker 1: I don't know if this young lady has been tested. Carolyn Levitt was with the president on the campaign trail for a long time. That's true. She was answering questions all day long. She knew these folks.
00:21:38
Speaker 2: I think it's funny you called Katie Zakaria a young lady. Carolyn Levitt's A young lady. She's in her 20s still. Yeah, I guess I maybe expected more from Katie Zakaria because she's 41. She's a mom of four. And then there's... Zachariah.
00:21:53
Speaker 1: We got to get this right.
00:21:54
Speaker 2: God, I said it wrong.
00:21:54
Speaker 1: Zachariah. I asked you in the break, how do you say her name?
00:21:56
Speaker 2: And I still said it wrong.
00:21:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what's been throwing you.
00:21:59
Speaker 2: You've been saying Zakaria. I keep thinking that's her name. Zachariah. I'm so sorry.
00:22:04
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:22:05
Speaker 1: We'll get it right. I know, I know.
00:22:06
Speaker 2: Because we're going to be talking about her a lot. Yes, we are. Zachariah.
00:22:10
Speaker 1: And what we're going to be talking about a lot, Robes, if anything that might piss the president off, you know he doesn't take too kindly to controversies or distractions. Is she a lawyer or not?
00:22:22
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:22:22
Speaker 2: So this is going to be her biggest hurdle.
00:22:25
Speaker 1: She's going to have to answer this one, baby.
00:22:26
Speaker 2: And I don't know if she's going to survive. I don't know if she's going to pass because of this. Because look, so... We know she went to Pepperdine.
00:22:35
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:22:35
Speaker 2: She got her law degree. Yep. She, on her resume, claims to be and have served as general counsel, correct? Yes. Correct to several different entities.
00:22:46
Speaker 1: One in China, one in California.
00:22:48
Speaker 2: I thought there was one in Texas as well, perhaps.
00:22:50
Speaker 1: I know they checked her if she was barred in Texas or D.C.
00:22:53
Speaker 2: Yes, go ahead. Yes, because on her resume, she claimed to be performing in a legal capacity in in those jobs. And so they, obviously reporters are going to do their due diligence and they have been looking to try and find out where exactly or how exactly Katie Zachariah passed the bar.
00:23:16
Speaker 1: Because she has robes.
00:23:18
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:23:18
Speaker 1: The resume is one thing, but she has put herself on television. She's been introduced lawyer attorney. This is just the assumption. I assumed she was a lawyer and attorney.
00:23:28
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:23:28
Speaker 1: She graduated from Pepperdine. However, And this was an awkward and embarrassing moment that President Trump was in the middle of. And he's not going to appreciate that.
00:23:39
Speaker 2: And he's not going to like this.
00:23:40
Speaker 1: He's not going to like it.
00:23:41
Speaker 2: No. So while they were about to head, they were in the South Lawn of the White House. And she was standing there kind of behind him. And one of the reporters asked President Trump, where did she pass the bar exam?
00:23:52
Speaker 1: Which state?
00:23:53
Speaker 2: Which state? And they're saying this because they know there's already been reporting that folks have combed through all 50 states. There's no record of her passing the bar at any point anywhere. So Trump turns to Zachariah and asks her, which state? She responds, when I moved to China.
00:24:18
Speaker 1: I went to China.
00:24:18
Speaker 2: I went to China.
00:24:19
Speaker 1: This is from a CBS reporter who was standing right there in the gaggle because it's a little hard to hear what Katie Zachariah was saying. But she repeated when they asked her again, what state? I went to China, is her response. Now, her resume does list and she says she lived in China a couple years, at which point, depending on which updated resume you look at, she possibly served in a legal capacity over there. Now, Robes, the moment was awkward because the president looked like he genuinely didn't know and didn't think he was going to be controversial. Yeah, where's your pass bar? He just turned around to get the answer. I went To China. Robes. Okay. So she didn't pass the bar. She didn't pass the bar anywhere. She's never passed the bar anywhere. That means she's never practiced law anywhere.
00:25:06
Speaker 2: Which means she's not an attorney.
00:25:08
Speaker 1: She's not a lawyer. Which is fine. You don't have to be a lawyer to be in that job. But Robes, day one, people are digging into your background because you might have misrepresented yourself on your resume.
00:25:20
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:25:21
Speaker 1: Trump is not going to like that, and he was standing there and didn't have the answer. He is in the middle of that embarrassing moment, front and center.
00:25:29
Speaker 2: In the wake of Kimberly Guilfoyle, this is not good because, yes, in her LinkedIn page or in her LinkedIn profile, she says that she was general counsel- For a company based in California. But yes, it has been confirmed. She has no credentials to practice law in California.
00:25:51
Speaker 1: In some states, that's actually illegal to do.
00:25:53
Speaker 2: Correct. Then they say Zachariah is not listed as a member of the bar in Texas or Washington, D.C., despite evidence that she also worked in both of those places in a legal capacity.
00:26:06
Speaker 1: This, oh my God, like we said at the top. Bless her heart, baby. This is... How did she not think that was going to come up? I went to China. That answer is all you need to know. I went to China. When asked where you passed the bar, I went to China. Like, they're not going to follow up.
00:26:34
Speaker 3: What?
00:26:35
Speaker 2: And the president, when he... announced that she was going to become his press secretary on Friday, absolutely listed her as an attorney. Really?
00:26:46
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:26:46
Speaker 2: I have his exact.
00:26:47
Speaker 1: Please tell.
00:26:48
Speaker 2: She is a quote, distinguished graduate of Pepperdine university and the Pepperdine Caruso school of law, an attorney and a frequent commentator on outlets, including Fox news and Newsmax. So he, if she made a liar out of the president, uh, And she is supposed to be the press secretary, and this is all coming out day one. She faces the press corps. That is tough.
00:27:17
Speaker 1: Well, he might be really pissed.
00:27:18
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:27:19
Speaker 1: It's possible. And so, yes, you can pass the bar. Excuse me, excuse me. You can pass or graduate from law school. You have a degree in law. That's fine. That does not make you a lawyer. And I think most people understand that, Robes. You are not allowed to give legal advice. You are not allowed to work as a lawyer because you haven't passed a bar. You're not permitted. You're not licensed. That'd be like a doctor saying, doing surgery at the back of his car.
00:27:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, you gotta go to residency.
00:27:49
Speaker 1: There's a thing.
00:27:50
Speaker 3: Yes.
00:27:50
Speaker 1: You have to be licensed to do these things.
00:27:52
Speaker 2: There are other steps. You have to be board certified, et cetera. That's why you have to pass the bar exam.
00:27:58
Speaker 1: Oh, God, this poor girl.
00:27:58
Speaker 2: So, yes, popular info. His name is Judd Lagume, I believe. He's the one who dug this all up, but he made it very clear. He said there is no indication she took or passed any U.S. bar exam while she was in China. She lived there from 2011 through... To 2013, she was working as a law associate and a communications manager for an international children's rights group.
00:28:23
Speaker 1: What's the right answer for her to give in that moment with the president? Where did you pass the bar? Can you be honest? I never actually took it. You can't. Because if she took it, she would have said it. Babe, now we're talking it out. This might be bad. Ropes, does she really practice as general counsel somewhere and not have license to do so? Did she really? Oh, my goodness. It's frightening. This young lady.
00:28:48
Speaker 2: It's frightening.
00:28:49
Speaker 1: I am not laughing. Nothing here. I hate this for this young lady.
00:28:54
Speaker 3: I know.
00:28:54
Speaker 1: Why do I keep saying young lady, by the way?
00:28:56
Speaker 3: She's 41.
00:28:56
Speaker 1: I know she's 41.
00:28:56
Speaker 2: She's a grown-ass woman.
00:28:58
Speaker 1: She is a grown woman with four kids.
00:28:59
Speaker 2: The other point about the when I went to China or after I went to China is... By the way, she couldn't have ever practiced law in China because foreigners are forbidden to do so. Only Chinese nationals are allowed to take that country's bar exam and practice Chinese law. So she can't even claim that somehow she passed some Chinese version of the bar.
00:29:25
Speaker 1: How are you going to pass it? Do you speak the language over there? I'm told she's proficient. Oh, this is bad. Okay. This is my, oh, this it's bad for us all. Robes, we're rooting for her, want her to do well. The nerves, I understand. If this is all just a misunderstanding, maybe it's not that bad. Maybe it's not that big of a deal. Okay, she passed, didn't pass the bar. Okay, are you that mad at her because she's been misrepresenting herself as a lawyer?
00:29:53
Speaker 2: Yes, because her whole point is to represent the truth. That is her job now. That is her job. And look, there are other people are digging in and they've also found out that she previously claimed that a specific abortion pill came straight from Nazi Germany. Like she's perpetuated. She also used her truth social account to elevate the Pizzagate conspiracy. You know that where they say Hillary Clinton had something to do with. child sex trafficking so.
00:30:20
Speaker 4: Having her pizza cake yeah so she she on her true social she was perpetuating that just it's important to understand who the person is who's supposed to be giving information that we can rely on coming from the.
00:30:37
Speaker 2: White house and so uh this is all coming from um Plenty of groups and organizations, the New Republic, they've got popular info. They're all digging in now and finding out just who she is.
00:30:54
Speaker 1: Now they're after her, baby. You know what? If the question hadn't been asked today, where'd you pass the bar, I think she would have had a different day. Why would you, for the past number of years, represent yourself as a lawyer?
00:31:07
Speaker 2: She's going to have to address this. Damn. She's going to have to address this.
00:31:13
Speaker 1: Well, folks, I don't know when we'll get another press briefing because she's traveling with the president now. So I don't know if she'll be doing these on the road, but she will have to brief reporters. She'll be talking to reporters. She'll get a few more reps. But Robes, right now on that plane to Alaska, right, is where they're heading. Robes, there is a serious conversation and a meeting going on about how to deal with what just happened.
00:31:36
Speaker 2: The Her response, when I went to China or when.
00:31:40
Speaker 1: She said... It was... Bro, this is the question. In what state did you pass the bar? I went to China. She gave that answer twice, according to the CBS reporter, when asked directly, where did you pass the bar? What state? I went to China. And that was it.
00:31:57
Speaker 2: People are going crazy with this, with... What? Comments. SNL, please use this as your next cold open.
00:32:04
Speaker 1: Oh, that's... It's done.
00:32:05
Speaker 2: It's done.
00:32:06
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:32:06
Speaker 2: Her press briefing is going to be the opening skit for SNL on Saturday. There's literally no question in my mind.
00:32:14
Speaker 1: We should hop on Kalshi and put a bet on that. Let's get on Polymarket, right? Let's put some money on that.
00:32:19
Speaker 2: It's happening. It's absolutely happening.
00:32:22
Speaker 1: Look, we can say, Robes, I do have questions. I do not envy the position she is in right now. I do not envy How she might be feeling in this moment. I don't envy all the heat that's coming her way. I just, I don't. And in that regard, Robes, my heart goes out to her. This is hard stuff. On the other hand of that, I have questions. And before I pounce, I would like to hear her answer this stuff, babe. And if she made a mistake, if she says I'm sorry, I don't know. I'm just, you know me, always trying to give a little grace for people. Because right now, I am sure, baby, she is struggling. I'm sure. And just as a human being, I hate this for her and I hope she gets it together. And I do want us to have a wonderful press secretary at the White House. But babe, if this is the start we get off to.
00:33:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, as a human, my heart hurts for her. This is not an enviable position to be in. We all make mistakes. We all get nervous. But it's a question of whether or not she has deliberately misled the president or misled former employers or if this was all known and maybe no one should have been referring to her as an attorney and she didn't intend for them to.
00:33:37
Speaker 1: Is it possible she could say, yeah, I just never corrected anybody?
00:33:41
Speaker 2: That's possible.
00:33:42
Speaker 1: They just assumed that I never corrected. I never put myself out there. Yeah, but then other people have tracked down all of her profiles from all her social media and LinkedIn where she calls herself a lawyer or says she was general counsel. This is tough.
00:33:56
Speaker 2: This is tough.
00:33:56
Speaker 1: This is day one. Folks, putting this on your radar for what happened at the White House today, stand by. Is it possible, Roe, this would be a mess if you had to dump her already? But yes, the reporting from sources from several networks now talking to reporters and reporters talking to their sources in the White House, folks are questioning Roe if she's going to last long. Yes.
00:34:18
Speaker 2: After 14 minutes? I bet you talk about Kalshi. I bet there's, I bet you anything there is a going bet now as to how long she will last.
00:34:30
Speaker 1: Well, certainly rooting for and hope this gets cleaned up. But putting it on your radar, we appreciate you as always. This was supposed to be a shorter episode. There's so much to say on this. But yes, for my dear Amy Robach, I'm TJ Holmes. We'll certainly be talking to you soon.
Speaker 1: Hey there, folks. It is Tuesday, October 13th, and just a short time ago, the brand new White House press secretary held her first White House press briefing. And as my sister Tish would say, bless her heart. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ Robes. Surely she's going to be critiqued. Should we critique it in two different ways? One, just as the performance of the White House press secretary and the performance of the White House press secretary on her first day on the job. Got to give her a little bit of a break, right?
00:00:37
Speaker 2: Absolutely. And look, I will say that that is one of the toughest public-facing jobs in the world, period. It is incredibly nerve-wracking. You are facing off and giving information to and answering questions from seasoned, veteran journalists who know how to ask questions. They know what, how to follow up with in tough ways. She never even faced tough questions though. She never had a tough followup. She didn't actually have a mainstream member of the press. I guess what president Trump would call fake news or the lamestream press. actually even ask her a question. Every question, I believe, and she only answered three, came from friendly faces and friendly organizations.
00:01:36
Speaker 1: Robes, it lasted 14 minutes. How many of it was her opening statement?
00:01:42
Speaker 2: Eight minutes was her, what I believe some people are calling a monologue, because she was just reading from a paper. And look, yes, she was nervous. And I think, yes, that's to be expected. Her voice was a little shaky. She bobbled some words. She, we'll get into it, referred to her husband as the president. All of that, I understand. Even in Carolyn Leavitt's first opening to the press, she had a little bit of a slip in terms of she conflated two words and we laughed at it because we've been there. We've done that. We know what it's like.
00:02:14
Speaker 1: We've laughed at it for a while.
00:02:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have it in my notes, actually.
00:02:17
Speaker 1: Carolyn Leavitt was trying to say to the first reporter who asked her a question, Thank you for being here with us. Thank you for being here with us. Thank you for being here with us. And it came out as, thank you for being us with here.
00:02:32
Speaker 3: Yes.
00:02:32
Speaker 1: Now, that seems impossible for a mind to do. But Rose, she was nervous, and she handled herself fine. This young lady was nervous. And it's understandable, baby.
00:02:43
Speaker 2: She was nervous. I don't know how much public speaking she's done. Tons.
00:02:47
Speaker 1: Tons. Tons.
00:02:50
Speaker 2: That's a little shocking to me.
00:02:51
Speaker 1: She touts herself. Robes, she is an on-air legal analyst and expert. She goes around. That's what she does, is talk and make appearances on Fox News, on Newsmax. Robes, this is what she does. So it's a little.
00:03:07
Speaker 2: Perplexing.
00:03:08
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:03:08
Speaker 2: Look, and I'm not here to bash her or... Give her a break, yes.
00:03:13
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
00:03:14
Speaker 2: I have been nervous before. I have conflated words before. Obviously... I think we understand more than most just how tough it was to get up there in front of this gaggle of reporters. But she knows she's literally getting up there in front of the world and that everyone is going to critique what she said, how she said it. And that on your first day is a lot to say. deal with. However, I would give her all of that. I just think she came off, unfortunately for her, as wildly unprepared, possibly way in over her head. And it's hard to imagine, but I hope she does surprise us all that she's going to be able to fill the shoes of Carolyn Leavitt.
00:04:02
Speaker 1: Hopefully she'll be fine. It was a rough start, and it was a surprising start. It was an awkward start. It was weird to a certain degree, and yes, it was abrupt. The president was leaving, yes, heading to Alaska to do some campaigning. Fine. She had to catch him. The flight.
00:04:18
Speaker 2: Don't you feel like that was manufactured so she didn't have to stand in front of the press for very long or answer any extra questions?
00:04:25
Speaker 1: But, Rob, it was announced. When did they announce she got the job? On Friday?
00:04:29
Speaker 3: Yes.
00:04:30
Speaker 1: He said that she was going to start on Monday, Columbus Day, so she was engaged. And then Tuesday, baby? Robes, there's no way. I would stand up to the president and say, sir, I'm not ready. I just got the gig. Robes, we've heard some former press secretaries on TV talking about going essentially to war school, if you will, sitting in there for eight hours a day for a month getting briefings about stuff. This young lady got the job on Friday. She's there on Tuesday.
00:04:57
Speaker 2: And that's the problem. If she didn't have enough time to put in those eight-hour days where she needed to do nothing but studyâ Trump policy, what's happening in the world. I mean, it's a lot to get read in on. We understand we do this for a living every single day. And the toughest job I ever had, maybe it's right now here doing what we're doing. But before that, it was absolutely as a cable news anchor at MSNBC. And I don't know if the same is true for you with CNN, but you have to know something about everything. And when you don't know something, you have to be willing to admit it. Now, she did. The only question she got about policy, she absolutely said, we'll have to get back to you. And then that, I think, threw her even more. The thing is, when you say, we'll have to get back to you, you need to say, but I can tell you this. You always have to have a nugget of information to provide to not look like you're just sitting there without any information. If you're the press secretary, that is your job to disseminate information to to talk about policy, to talk about what the Trump administration is doing, and to answer questions about any sort of critiques about what they're doing or not doing. And it just seemed like she didn't even have basic knowledge about basic things. And she only got asked questions from three reporters.
00:06:17
Speaker 1: Three reporters. One was from Breitbart. Okay, that is a right-leaning conservative outlet. The next one was from Fox News. Don't need to explain what that's about. The third one, I didn't hear who it was from, but that third person asked a question. One that got the news of the day, which was Kimberly Guilford, was asked to resign. But then the second question she asked, it was about her motherhood. Okay. And I guess that, but babe, three, she called on three people and was out of there. If you're telling me the first eight minutes were her talking. And then, so she took five.
00:06:49
Speaker 2: Minutes of questions and all of them were softballs, except for when I believe it was at Steve Ducey who asked the followup about Ukraine. Peter Ducey.
00:06:58
Speaker 1: Who's Peter? Who's the dad?
00:06:59
Speaker 2: I get confused.
00:06:59
Speaker 1: The younger one's Peter, I think. Peter Ducey.
00:07:01
Speaker 2: Yeah. Peter Ducey. Okay. He asked about, uh, Ukraine and how would she not have anticipated a question about Ukraine?
00:07:10
Speaker 1: That's the one she said. I had to get back.
00:07:11
Speaker 2: She said, I'll have to get back to you. But then she had nothing to offer. But I can tell you that the president is standing by his decision and You know, whatever. Like, she needed to have something to say.
00:07:31
Speaker 1: But that's a matter of skill, is it not? That part is skill. Even if she didn't have any extra info that they gave her. Robes, if somebody asked you a question about Ukraine you didn't know, you could bullshit your way out of it.
00:07:42
Speaker 2: Ab- Absolutely.
00:07:43
Speaker 1: Say, you know what? The president specifically, we haven't discussed that, but we are going to be hopping on the plane here shortly. You just talk.
00:07:49
Speaker 2: Yes, and just say, we're going to get that information to you shortly, but he's still deciding about X, Y, and Z, and he's the one who will be able to tell you. But she kept just saying, ask him when he goes to the helipad, when we head off.
00:08:02
Speaker 1: She did say that a couple times.
00:08:03
Speaker 2: She was like, just ask him. And I just, it was bizarre. And look, obviously, you can imagine what people are saying about Their impressions of her performance. And some of the, you know, when you watch the cable news outlets, they'll have what we call them lower thirds. But basically it's the information at the bottom of the screen, a headline basically for a cable news outlet. CNN's read like. White House officials question if Trump will keep new press secretary. The other one was debut and done. I mean, they were already going after her saying her days are numbered.
00:08:41
Speaker 1: That wasn't just CNN. What they were saying was that they were talking to sources in the White House who were giving their impression of how this young lady did on day one. And they were saying, yeah, we don't think she's going to be around long.
00:08:55
Speaker 2: Even White House officials objected. These were unnamed sources. They were anonymous, but attributed to the White House, saying that they called her performance unusual, another one calling it brutal.
00:09:07
Speaker 1: I see that a lot.
00:09:08
Speaker 2: And this was the worst one of them all. MS Now had, this is what they had to say, Zakaria is on track to shatter former White House comms director Anthony Scaramucci's time at the helm, which lasted a scant 10 days during President Trump's first term in 2017. And so they're saying that she may beat him in terms of the shortest-lived White House press secretary. That's not nice.
00:09:37
Speaker 1: She has been on the job in front of the press for 14 minutes. I'm willing to give her a beat, give her a break. This is a very difficult job. Now, others will say, yeah, and you got it. You're playing with the big boys now. You need to step in there and be able to do the job.
00:09:52
Speaker 2: And I think that is fair because look, she might not have had a lot of time to prepare, but the point being is, and we know she's a mom of four. because she talked about that, or at least she was asked about that. But yeah, you just need to say, hey, babe, husband, I need to spend these next five days doing nothing but getting ready for this press conference. Because look, a first impression is important. Yes, she can learn on the job in a way you kind of have to with that type of job. I don't know what other position would prepare you to be the press secretary if you didn't have a job in the media where you were ad-libbing and doing live coverage and speaking in front of a microphone in front of millions of people. If you don't have that job day in and day out, it is hard to start off and do it well.
00:10:39
Speaker 1: You know, the other very good point being made, she came from the outside. She's walking into a new environment. It's not like she was already in there, knew how things worked, and then got elevated to a peak. Rope, she's a brand new person walking in the White House, no matter how much she likes the president and his policies and his work for his companies. Rope, she ain't been in that building. She's new. She's brand new and having to get caught up that quickly. That's not her fault.
00:11:02
Speaker 2: Agreed. But to that point, it's interesting to have someone who is standing at that podium as the press secretary representing the president and the The only thing you really hear her say is how she's so excited to work for him and how he's an energetic president and claiming his attendance is at record highs at his rallies. It felt very North Korea-ish to me. It felt like I was watching state media read a report and this person is feigning enthusiasm and Because even when she was reading what she prepared, it didn't feel authentic or that it had true heart or meaning behind it. It felt weird and robotic and, yes, state media-esque to me when I was listening to it. It wasn't even like what she said, what she had prepared, that she even said with conviction.
00:11:56
Speaker 3: That's true.
00:11:57
Speaker 2: And that was hard for me to process.
00:12:00
Speaker 1: And what you're describing came out in the first 60 to 90 seconds of what she was saying. It started with praise for the president. I thought it was an odd line, too. I've wanted to work for this president for a long time. I didn't know what she meant.
00:12:13
Speaker 2: It makes me doubt her credibility and her authenticity. And then add to that her bizarre performance.
00:12:21
Speaker 1: But she's loyal, right? That's the credential, baby. That's the credential you need to work in this White House.
00:12:27
Speaker 2: Well, that's also the credential you need to work for any....
00:12:30
Speaker 1: Loyalty. Loyalty.
00:12:31
Speaker 2: Despot.
00:12:32
Speaker 3: Loyalty.
00:12:33
Speaker 2: Like, I'm sorry, but that's concerning.
00:12:36
Speaker 1: So you mentioned how nervous she got. Oh, yeah, you said she was talking about, we're going to let you hear. You know, we got three bits to play here for you. And yes, she comes off a little nervous. But one of the parts, I guess, Rose, that was most awkward is when she actually talked about her husband.
00:12:55
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:12:55
Speaker 1: And mixed it up. So take a listen to this. Sorry about that prematurely playing that for you all. But if you heard in the background, but I'm going to play this for you. But at one point she was asked to write about her kids.
00:13:05
Speaker 2: Yes. Right.
00:13:06
Speaker 1: And she has four. Look, that's a, is that a fair question?
00:13:10
Speaker 2: I think right off the bat, it was kind of like, honestly, that is for a piece that you put out that you sit down with people magazine and you let the people know, here's your new press secretary. I think when you only have five minutes of questions and, And this is somebody who is saying, I am here to represent the White House. The last question is, tell me about being a mom and how you're balancing it all. And Carolyn Leavitt left when she had her second child. Now you have four at home. And it was almost weird. She was defending herself. Well, I stayed home for six years. I stopped working for six years. And then and only then have I come back. And I vowed to spend every night with my children. And it was just weird. She had to prove something that She wasn't a bad mom by taking this job. I thought that was kind of offensive, too, as a woman.
00:13:57
Speaker 1: So this was part of her answer when she was talking about the kids and the family. Everybody's out in California, but they're going to be going back and forth. I think the kids are coming over soon because there's a birthday for one of them that's coming up. Okay, she's explaining all that, but this was weird.
00:14:13
Speaker 3: Spending evenings with my kids is completely unacceptable. So my husband, that's a good one, my husband is out here.
00:14:27
Speaker 1: Okay, maybe an innocent and even a funny slip, but given some of the other stuff you were talking about, the loyalty and how she's a fan, to mix that up?
00:14:37
Speaker 2: It was as if her only credential for the job is that she loves President Trump oh so, so, so, so, so much.
00:14:45
Speaker 1: But that's the only one you need. That's the only one that's necessary, is it not? I thought that was the case. That's all that matters. Pete Hegseth is the Secretary of Defense. He was at Fox before. I know he was in the military. But Robes go through a whole line of people he's put in place. They're loyal. Cash Patel? What was his credential? I'm not going after Cash Patel in his back, but I'm saying the resumes are light. What's at the top? What do you put at the top of your resume? Education, University of Arkansas, Bachelor of Arts, 1999. What do they put? Loyal to President Trump. That's the top thing you've got to have. And she seems to have it.
00:15:30
Speaker 2: She's loyal, yes. But I just think a lot of folks now, unfortunately, she got off on the wrong foot. And that is tough. First impressions do matter. I'm not saying she can't. Come back and be better prepared next time and wow us all. I hope she does. But it's tough when you make an impression like she did today.
00:15:50
Speaker 1: Well, tell me what you think about this.
00:15:53
Speaker 3: To build eight large-scale nuclear power plants, something we've needed as the United States and something President Trump promised on the campaign trail and something President Trump is delivering on just like he delivers on every promise. In addition to that, there is $ 54 billion tied to the Alaska LNG pipeline and terminal to service the Pacific Rim and sell fuel to our allies, as well as $ 22. 3 billion for a 6-gigawatt natural gas power facility in Texas.
00:16:31
Speaker 2: What is she even saying?
00:16:34
Speaker 1: And she's reading.
00:16:35
Speaker 2: So that's another thing to point out. She is reading this. And she couldn't read it in any sort of coherent way. I didn't understand what she was saying, and I believe she didn't understand what she was saying. And I think that's the bigger problem. I don't believe she knew what she was saying.
00:16:53
Speaker 1: Because she's new. Here it is. Go read it. She didn't have a handle. Robes, all of us know, if you read something that's new, you know, TV, we know this all the time. If you're reading a script live for the first time on TV, it comes across. If you have a handle on that information and reading it, you come off wrong. Okay, that's my point.
00:17:09
Speaker 2: So why wouldn't she have had a handle on it? She had a couple of days. I know it's not a lifetime, but to not to feel that insecure about information. And by the way, if you don't know what you're talking about. Maybe save that for the next press conference when you've had time to learn more about it. Speak on the things you know. And maybe this eight-minute monologue where it was like a mess. It was a mess. I didn't know half of what she was saying. And even when she was talking about the president in glowing terms, the feeling wasn't behind the words. She was just a robot sloppily reading things that she didn't even believe. So I didn't believe.
00:17:49
Speaker 1: First day jitters. Check this out.
00:17:52
Speaker 3: He had a historic one-day war, and now we have a booming economy and a great relationship with Venezuela.
00:18:02
Speaker 2: She didn't even believe that. She sighed in the middle of it.
00:18:08
Speaker 1: I just got to give her a pass. I just have to give her a pass on day one. I know, I know, I know. You know, it's like a rookie in the NFL and the NBA. Your first one, you might have some game jitters. You might have some jitters, but somebody might say, hey, you're a pro now. No excuses. I mean, yes, that's legit. You're a pro now. This is the big leagues. And she really needed to knock it out of the park today. And, babe, I don't even know if she got a single.
00:18:35
Speaker 2: No, I think she struck out.
00:18:36
Speaker 1: Do you think she might have struck out? But, folks, stay here. This wasn't the end of it. What happened after the press conference in the president's presence might be the thing that trips her up most. Stay here.
00:19:00
Speaker 2: Welcome back, everyone, to Amy and TJ. We got our first look and listen to President Trump's brand new White House press secretary, 41-year-old Katie Zachariah. And look, this is the truth. I had lowered expectations. I think a lot of us did. We know how tough that job is. We know how hard it is to stand in front of that lectern and face the media and the world. But she was far worse than I even expected her to be. I was cringing. I wasn't rooting for her to mess up. I actually, I don't ever want somebody... And someone who's representing the United States, someone who's representing the White House, I'm cheering her on.
00:19:45
Speaker 1: And I hope she's able.
00:19:47
Speaker 2: To come back and, and and I guess just I don't know what it is she's just I wouldn't even know what to tell her other than know what you're saying it's day one no mean what you say and say what you mean.
00:19:59
Speaker 1: Give her a beat it's 14 minutes shouldn't we all just give her a break ah you didn't nail it today don't worry It was 14 minutes that she's been in this job in front of the press. And wouldn't you say that most of the people in that room, no matter what you think about the White House press corps, was rooting for her today?
00:20:19
Speaker 2: And I don't know that people at home know that, but we know our colleagues in there. We've worked alongside them. I don't care who you vote for or what side of the aisle you're on. I don't think anybody wants to see somebody up there with a new job and a new opportunity who's excited to be there. I hate to use this phrase to publicly humiliate themselves, but she kind of did. It wasn't that bad. Maybe that's a little extreme, but you know what? I worry about her now going home, or I guess she's with the president now. Yeah. reading the reviews. And that's the hardest part. We know this. Everyone's commenting. All you have to do is turn on CNN, MSNBC. And I know she can chalk it up to say, oh, they were against me anyway. They're the liberal media. They're the fake news. They were always going to say bad things about me. They were never going to be okay with my delivery. But look, as much as people couldn't stand Carolyn Lovett in a lot of ways because of what she said, I don't think she got this type of review.
00:21:19
Speaker 1: I mean, she was loyal to the president, but she was rapid fire. I mean, she held her own.
00:21:25
Speaker 2: She was impressive. I thought she was, for the most part, she was pretty impressive.
00:21:29
Speaker 1: I don't know if this young lady has been tested. Carolyn Levitt was with the president on the campaign trail for a long time. That's true. She was answering questions all day long. She knew these folks.
00:21:38
Speaker 2: I think it's funny you called Katie Zakaria a young lady. Carolyn Levitt's A young lady. She's in her 20s still. Yeah, I guess I maybe expected more from Katie Zakaria because she's 41. She's a mom of four. And then there's... Zachariah.
00:21:53
Speaker 1: We got to get this right.
00:21:54
Speaker 2: God, I said it wrong.
00:21:54
Speaker 1: Zachariah. I asked you in the break, how do you say her name?
00:21:56
Speaker 2: And I still said it wrong.
00:21:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what's been throwing you.
00:21:59
Speaker 2: You've been saying Zakaria. I keep thinking that's her name. Zachariah. I'm so sorry.
00:22:04
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:22:05
Speaker 1: We'll get it right. I know, I know.
00:22:06
Speaker 2: Because we're going to be talking about her a lot. Yes, we are. Zachariah.
00:22:10
Speaker 1: And what we're going to be talking about a lot, Robes, if anything that might piss the president off, you know he doesn't take too kindly to controversies or distractions. Is she a lawyer or not?
00:22:22
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:22:22
Speaker 2: So this is going to be her biggest hurdle.
00:22:25
Speaker 1: She's going to have to answer this one, baby.
00:22:26
Speaker 2: And I don't know if she's going to survive. I don't know if she's going to pass because of this. Because look, so... We know she went to Pepperdine.
00:22:35
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:22:35
Speaker 2: She got her law degree. Yep. She, on her resume, claims to be and have served as general counsel, correct? Yes. Correct to several different entities.
00:22:46
Speaker 1: One in China, one in California.
00:22:48
Speaker 2: I thought there was one in Texas as well, perhaps.
00:22:50
Speaker 1: I know they checked her if she was barred in Texas or D.C.
00:22:53
Speaker 2: Yes, go ahead. Yes, because on her resume, she claimed to be performing in a legal capacity in in those jobs. And so they, obviously reporters are going to do their due diligence and they have been looking to try and find out where exactly or how exactly Katie Zachariah passed the bar.
00:23:16
Speaker 1: Because she has robes.
00:23:18
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:23:18
Speaker 1: The resume is one thing, but she has put herself on television. She's been introduced lawyer attorney. This is just the assumption. I assumed she was a lawyer and attorney.
00:23:28
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:23:28
Speaker 1: She graduated from Pepperdine. However, And this was an awkward and embarrassing moment that President Trump was in the middle of. And he's not going to appreciate that.
00:23:39
Speaker 2: And he's not going to like this.
00:23:40
Speaker 1: He's not going to like it.
00:23:41
Speaker 2: No. So while they were about to head, they were in the South Lawn of the White House. And she was standing there kind of behind him. And one of the reporters asked President Trump, where did she pass the bar exam?
00:23:52
Speaker 1: Which state?
00:23:53
Speaker 2: Which state? And they're saying this because they know there's already been reporting that folks have combed through all 50 states. There's no record of her passing the bar at any point anywhere. So Trump turns to Zachariah and asks her, which state? She responds, when I moved to China.
00:24:18
Speaker 1: I went to China.
00:24:18
Speaker 2: I went to China.
00:24:19
Speaker 1: This is from a CBS reporter who was standing right there in the gaggle because it's a little hard to hear what Katie Zachariah was saying. But she repeated when they asked her again, what state? I went to China, is her response. Now, her resume does list and she says she lived in China a couple years, at which point, depending on which updated resume you look at, she possibly served in a legal capacity over there. Now, Robes, the moment was awkward because the president looked like he genuinely didn't know and didn't think he was going to be controversial. Yeah, where's your pass bar? He just turned around to get the answer. I went To China. Robes. Okay. So she didn't pass the bar. She didn't pass the bar anywhere. She's never passed the bar anywhere. That means she's never practiced law anywhere.
00:25:06
Speaker 2: Which means she's not an attorney.
00:25:08
Speaker 1: She's not a lawyer. Which is fine. You don't have to be a lawyer to be in that job. But Robes, day one, people are digging into your background because you might have misrepresented yourself on your resume.
00:25:20
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:25:21
Speaker 1: Trump is not going to like that, and he was standing there and didn't have the answer. He is in the middle of that embarrassing moment, front and center.
00:25:29
Speaker 2: In the wake of Kimberly Guilfoyle, this is not good because, yes, in her LinkedIn page or in her LinkedIn profile, she says that she was general counsel- For a company based in California. But yes, it has been confirmed. She has no credentials to practice law in California.
00:25:51
Speaker 1: In some states, that's actually illegal to do.
00:25:53
Speaker 2: Correct. Then they say Zachariah is not listed as a member of the bar in Texas or Washington, D.C., despite evidence that she also worked in both of those places in a legal capacity.
00:26:06
Speaker 1: This, oh my God, like we said at the top. Bless her heart, baby. This is... How did she not think that was going to come up? I went to China. That answer is all you need to know. I went to China. When asked where you passed the bar, I went to China. Like, they're not going to follow up.
00:26:34
Speaker 3: What?
00:26:35
Speaker 2: And the president, when he... announced that she was going to become his press secretary on Friday, absolutely listed her as an attorney. Really?
00:26:46
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:26:46
Speaker 2: I have his exact.
00:26:47
Speaker 1: Please tell.
00:26:48
Speaker 2: She is a quote, distinguished graduate of Pepperdine university and the Pepperdine Caruso school of law, an attorney and a frequent commentator on outlets, including Fox news and Newsmax. So he, if she made a liar out of the president, uh, And she is supposed to be the press secretary, and this is all coming out day one. She faces the press corps. That is tough.
00:27:17
Speaker 1: Well, he might be really pissed.
00:27:18
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:27:19
Speaker 1: It's possible. And so, yes, you can pass the bar. Excuse me, excuse me. You can pass or graduate from law school. You have a degree in law. That's fine. That does not make you a lawyer. And I think most people understand that, Robes. You are not allowed to give legal advice. You are not allowed to work as a lawyer because you haven't passed a bar. You're not permitted. You're not licensed. That'd be like a doctor saying, doing surgery at the back of his car.
00:27:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, you gotta go to residency.
00:27:49
Speaker 1: There's a thing.
00:27:50
Speaker 3: Yes.
00:27:50
Speaker 1: You have to be licensed to do these things.
00:27:52
Speaker 2: There are other steps. You have to be board certified, et cetera. That's why you have to pass the bar exam.
00:27:58
Speaker 1: Oh, God, this poor girl.
00:27:58
Speaker 2: So, yes, popular info. His name is Judd Lagume, I believe. He's the one who dug this all up, but he made it very clear. He said there is no indication she took or passed any U.S. bar exam while she was in China. She lived there from 2011 through... To 2013, she was working as a law associate and a communications manager for an international children's rights group.
00:28:23
Speaker 1: What's the right answer for her to give in that moment with the president? Where did you pass the bar? Can you be honest? I never actually took it. You can't. Because if she took it, she would have said it. Babe, now we're talking it out. This might be bad. Ropes, does she really practice as general counsel somewhere and not have license to do so? Did she really? Oh, my goodness. It's frightening. This young lady.
00:28:48
Speaker 2: It's frightening.
00:28:49
Speaker 1: I am not laughing. Nothing here. I hate this for this young lady.
00:28:54
Speaker 3: I know.
00:28:54
Speaker 1: Why do I keep saying young lady, by the way?
00:28:56
Speaker 3: She's 41.
00:28:56
Speaker 1: I know she's 41.
00:28:56
Speaker 2: She's a grown-ass woman.
00:28:58
Speaker 1: She is a grown woman with four kids.
00:28:59
Speaker 2: The other point about the when I went to China or after I went to China is... By the way, she couldn't have ever practiced law in China because foreigners are forbidden to do so. Only Chinese nationals are allowed to take that country's bar exam and practice Chinese law. So she can't even claim that somehow she passed some Chinese version of the bar.
00:29:25
Speaker 1: How are you going to pass it? Do you speak the language over there? I'm told she's proficient. Oh, this is bad. Okay. This is my, oh, this it's bad for us all. Robes, we're rooting for her, want her to do well. The nerves, I understand. If this is all just a misunderstanding, maybe it's not that bad. Maybe it's not that big of a deal. Okay, she passed, didn't pass the bar. Okay, are you that mad at her because she's been misrepresenting herself as a lawyer?
00:29:53
Speaker 2: Yes, because her whole point is to represent the truth. That is her job now. That is her job. And look, there are other people are digging in and they've also found out that she previously claimed that a specific abortion pill came straight from Nazi Germany. Like she's perpetuated. She also used her truth social account to elevate the Pizzagate conspiracy. You know that where they say Hillary Clinton had something to do with. child sex trafficking so.
00:30:20
Speaker 4: Having her pizza cake yeah so she she on her true social she was perpetuating that just it's important to understand who the person is who's supposed to be giving information that we can rely on coming from the.
00:30:37
Speaker 2: White house and so uh this is all coming from um Plenty of groups and organizations, the New Republic, they've got popular info. They're all digging in now and finding out just who she is.
00:30:54
Speaker 1: Now they're after her, baby. You know what? If the question hadn't been asked today, where'd you pass the bar, I think she would have had a different day. Why would you, for the past number of years, represent yourself as a lawyer?
00:31:07
Speaker 2: She's going to have to address this. Damn. She's going to have to address this.
00:31:13
Speaker 1: Well, folks, I don't know when we'll get another press briefing because she's traveling with the president now. So I don't know if she'll be doing these on the road, but she will have to brief reporters. She'll be talking to reporters. She'll get a few more reps. But Robes, right now on that plane to Alaska, right, is where they're heading. Robes, there is a serious conversation and a meeting going on about how to deal with what just happened.
00:31:36
Speaker 2: The Her response, when I went to China or when.
00:31:40
Speaker 1: She said... It was... Bro, this is the question. In what state did you pass the bar? I went to China. She gave that answer twice, according to the CBS reporter, when asked directly, where did you pass the bar? What state? I went to China. And that was it.
00:31:57
Speaker 2: People are going crazy with this, with... What? Comments. SNL, please use this as your next cold open.
00:32:04
Speaker 1: Oh, that's... It's done.
00:32:05
Speaker 2: It's done.
00:32:06
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:32:06
Speaker 2: Her press briefing is going to be the opening skit for SNL on Saturday. There's literally no question in my mind.
00:32:14
Speaker 1: We should hop on Kalshi and put a bet on that. Let's get on Polymarket, right? Let's put some money on that.
00:32:19
Speaker 2: It's happening. It's absolutely happening.
00:32:22
Speaker 1: Look, we can say, Robes, I do have questions. I do not envy the position she is in right now. I do not envy How she might be feeling in this moment. I don't envy all the heat that's coming her way. I just, I don't. And in that regard, Robes, my heart goes out to her. This is hard stuff. On the other hand of that, I have questions. And before I pounce, I would like to hear her answer this stuff, babe. And if she made a mistake, if she says I'm sorry, I don't know. I'm just, you know me, always trying to give a little grace for people. Because right now, I am sure, baby, she is struggling. I'm sure. And just as a human being, I hate this for her and I hope she gets it together. And I do want us to have a wonderful press secretary at the White House. But babe, if this is the start we get off to.
00:33:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, as a human, my heart hurts for her. This is not an enviable position to be in. We all make mistakes. We all get nervous. But it's a question of whether or not she has deliberately misled the president or misled former employers or if this was all known and maybe no one should have been referring to her as an attorney and she didn't intend for them to.
00:33:37
Speaker 1: Is it possible she could say, yeah, I just never corrected anybody?
00:33:41
Speaker 2: That's possible.
00:33:42
Speaker 1: They just assumed that I never corrected. I never put myself out there. Yeah, but then other people have tracked down all of her profiles from all her social media and LinkedIn where she calls herself a lawyer or says she was general counsel. This is tough.
00:33:56
Speaker 2: This is tough.
00:33:56
Speaker 1: This is day one. Folks, putting this on your radar for what happened at the White House today, stand by. Is it possible, Roe, this would be a mess if you had to dump her already? But yes, the reporting from sources from several networks now talking to reporters and reporters talking to their sources in the White House, folks are questioning Roe if she's going to last long. Yes.
00:34:18
Speaker 2: After 14 minutes? I bet you talk about Kalshi. I bet there's, I bet you anything there is a going bet now as to how long she will last.
00:34:30
Speaker 1: Well, certainly rooting for and hope this gets cleaned up. But putting it on your radar, we appreciate you as always. This was supposed to be a shorter episode. There's so much to say on this. But yes, for my dear Amy Robach, I'm TJ Holmes. We'll certainly be talking to you soon.