Sept. 25, 2026
NEW Allegations Against St. Paul’s First Female Mayor, Accused Of Sexual Harassment
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RSS Feed St. Paul Police Chief Alex Henry has officially filed a lawsuit against 53-year-old Minnesota Mayor Kaohly Her for sexual harassment. Chief Henry had already filed a complaint against the mayor back in the Spring, but has now included new allegations in his formal lawsuit. Henry alleges that Mayor Her grabbed his upper thigh twice during a budget meeting, made references to the size of his penis and referred to herself as a “MILF”. Earlier accusations involved Mayor Her reportedly sending an inappropriate text to a city employee referring to “Weiner Wednesday.” The Mayor’s spokesperson has denied the allegations and says Mayor Her plans to “continue to lead St. Paul.”
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00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hey there, folks. It is Friday, September 25th, and Minnesota has a MILF on its hands, at least according to a new lawsuit that says one mayor of a major city in Minnesota has been saying all kinds of outlandish stuff and includes calling herself a MILF. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Robes is a story we covered before. It has had to do with Wiener Wednesday. It's getting stranger.
00:00:31
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:00:32
Speaker 3: And it's getting stranger, but it's getting more interesting.
00:00:36
Speaker 2: And I loved what you said earlier.
00:00:39
Speaker 3: If you all know our feed well, you know we do a thing called Morning Run. And when we talked about this story briefly, you mentioned MILF. And I said, wow, what person calls themselves a mom.
00:00:52
Speaker 2: I'd like to F? And you said, What if she's saying she's a mayor? I'd like to F.
00:00:58
Speaker 1: I don't have the clarity. I can't get that out of my head. I don't know if there's... Really, I don't know what she meant. Maybe she did mean mayor.
00:01:05
Speaker 2: Okay, either way, it's wildly inappropriate.
00:01:07
Speaker 1: A milf. And bizarre. We're talking St. Paul, Minnesota. The first woman, right, ever elected mayor of that town?
00:01:13
Speaker 2: Yes, and I just don't think you can call yourself that, I guess is my point.
00:01:17
Speaker 1: Generally speaking, is that something... Yeah.
00:01:20
Speaker 3: No, you're called that by someone else. It's a compliment, kind of. It's a little objectifying, but it's a compliment when you reach a certain age, I guess.
00:01:28
Speaker 1: But she's 56. That's kind of the point.
00:01:31
Speaker 3: She's 53. She's 53. But you don't refer to yourself as one. That just doesn't typically happen.
00:01:38
Speaker 1: Well, Kaylee Herr can. Mayor Kaylee Herr has actually robes for months. been in the headlines and been in some trouble with investigations and accusations. But now this has gone to a new level. She is facing a lawsuit and robes from some, it might be every mayor, probably the person they need to work closest with.
00:01:58
Speaker 2: Is the police chief.
00:01:59
Speaker 3: Yes.
00:01:59
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
00:02:00
Speaker 3: And so Mayor Kayleigh Herr is now being sued for sexual harassment by the police chief, Alex Henry. And among the new allegations in this sexual harassment lawsuit is Yes, that she called herself a MILF, but also that she grabbed aforementioned police chief's upper thigh under, what, a conference table in a budget meeting?
00:02:24
Speaker 1: This budget meeting is going to be boring, I'll bet. I'll spice this thing up a little bit.
00:02:29
Speaker 2: I mean, I get it.
00:02:30
Speaker 3: Maybe you're a little bored or whatever, but that just seems highly unusual.
00:02:36
Speaker 1: You know, I need to stop there because, and you know what? You could take me to task for this. I know there's Wiener Wednesday and MILF, but tonally, would I be saying something different? Would never a smirk come across our faces if we were talking about a male mayor doing this stuff to a female police chief. For whatever reason, and I'm stopping myself, because I'm thinking, touching the leg under the table, ooh, it's a budget meeting, they can be, that type of stuff. Robes, if a man did this to a woman, and a man in power did this to a woman who is his employee, do you think, tonally, we would look at this differently?
00:03:20
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yes.
00:03:21
Speaker 3: You think so?
00:03:21
Speaker 1: I just wondered.
00:03:22
Speaker 2: Because, yes, and look, I think it's just, Should we?
00:03:25
Speaker 3: Well, Yes and no, because I understand what you're saying, and that's all true. Obviously, the reason why we're more wink, wink, nod, nod, and that's not okay to dismiss this as anything other than what it is, which is potentially illegal, and wildly inappropriate, but just the power structure of.
00:03:45
Speaker 2: Men and women.
00:03:46
Speaker 3: And there's no physical intimidation. There's no historic superiority, and so when it's reversed, it doesn't seem as offensive because obviously, especially, she's not only a woman, but she is from Laos, she's a smaller woman. I'm just saying even physically, just to see the predator or the attacker be this small Asian woman versus a male police chief. That's not a likely adversarial role.
00:04:21
Speaker 2: It would typically be reversed.
00:04:23
Speaker 3: So when you're seeing something unusual like this where the power dynamics are unusual, to have this type of allegation.
00:04:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, physical power dynamics are different, but the actual power dynamics, she's still in charge. She is his boss. That is true. And this is happening. And Robes, it does. Some of the headlines about this, yes, we first started talking about this earlier this summer when this all came out. Wiener Wednesday? Like, even some of the things, she's been accused of calling herself a MILF and sending around jokes about Wiener Wednesday. That's just... silly.
00:04:58
Speaker 3: It sounds to me inappropriate. It sounds a little pathetic, like attention seeking, but in kind of a, almost like a juvenile way.
00:05:08
Speaker 1: That was the word I was about to use.
00:05:09
Speaker 3: It feels immature in a weird way for a 53 year old woman to be acting like that. But Who knows what her experience is and it's worked before and people think she's funny or cute or a little provocative, but it's obviously inappropriate. Now, when you get to touching someone else, unwanted touching, now that's a.
00:05:29
Speaker 2: Whole other thing.
00:05:31
Speaker 3: I was trying to imagine like, would you ever, if you're laughing or joking with someone, squeeze someone's leg or something?
00:05:36
Speaker 2: Probably not.
00:05:37
Speaker 3: I was just trying to think like, is there ever a time where like my brother and I would like do that to each other and laugh? And I was like, could it have been jovial or like colleague to colleague?
00:05:49
Speaker 2: She should still have known better. Was it sexual? Was it a, hey baby? I mean, I don't know. It's still wrong, but I just don't know what her intent was.
00:06:08
Speaker 1: Does it matter?
00:06:10
Speaker 3: If it's unwanted or unprovoked or not consensual, absolutely no, it should not matter.
00:06:16
Speaker 2: It should be wrong, period.
00:06:17
Speaker 1: The mayor put her hand on my upper thigh twice during a budget meeting. Do I need context of what their relationship was?
00:06:26
Speaker 2: No, the idea of putting... anyone putting their hand on someone's upper thigh. You wouldn't, baby. No, you cannot. I was just trying to like, is there... No, there's not.
00:06:35
Speaker 1: You don't have a scenario.
00:06:36
Speaker 2: There's no scenario.
00:06:36
Speaker 1: Put yourself in any situation, at any dinner, with anybody, anything.
00:06:40
Speaker 2: I could only put my hand on your upper thigh.
00:06:43
Speaker 1: That's it. And depending on how we're doing that day, I might find it inappropriate.
00:06:48
Speaker 2: That's funny.
00:06:50
Speaker 1: But we were talking about this. The original complaint letter from April Robes, they essentially put the mayor and the city on notice... that we're probably going to sue y'all. And sure enough, they followed through. But at least the initial complaint gives you an idea at least how this all got started. And this letter was from April.
00:07:06
Speaker 3: Yes. The city is on notice that Mayor Herr has engaged in illegal conduct towards city employees. Litigation is reasonably foreseeable. You are also aware that Mayor Herr has used one or more mobile phones to communicate inappropriate and indeed unlawful text messages.
00:07:25
Speaker 2: For example.
00:07:26
Speaker 3: Mayor Herr sent the following text message to a city employee. Here is how it reads. Happy Wiener Wednesday. Wish I was having, there was a hot dog emoji, with you all on six today when she wraps you up in.
00:07:39
Speaker 2: Her blanket after you gave her a good wienering. There's a... Do you remember the picture? Yeah, it's a picture of, it looks like, what's wrapped up?
00:07:51
Speaker 1: Like a hot dog. It was wrapped up in a blanket, right? Yes. It was like a face in it or something, like somebody's face.
00:07:55
Speaker 3: It was like a man after sex being wrapped up in a blanket or something. Okay.
00:07:59
Speaker 1: So, okay, that seems pretty inappropriate. We at the time, both of us were like, what the hell is Wiener Wednesday? It's a thing. that yes, legit hot dog promotion on Wednesdays from hot dog companies, but yes.
00:08:12
Speaker 2: It's like Taco Tuesday, but for hot dogs.
00:08:14
Speaker 1: It's Wiener Wednesday. Makes sense. Okay. Okay. But it's slang for sex, and you can understand. We don't have to explain why. It's also slang for sex. No, we do not. The mayor at the time, Robes, without completely admitting fault, admitted some fault, and at least she made some missteps, and maybe she's not as funny as she thinks she is.
00:08:32
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:08:33
Speaker 3: So her statement to this was, and will continue to do so. I respect the investigative process and believe it is important to allow it to reach its conclusion. I remain confident that the full facts will come to light, and I will continue to focus on serving the people of St. Paul with integrity and dedication.
00:09:10
Speaker 1: Maybe that's possible. It sucks, Ro. This is the first female mayor. of St. Paul, Minnesota.
00:09:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is a bummer that the first female mayor is now being accused of sexual harassment and illegal conduct.
00:09:25
Speaker 1: We don't know all the details. We don't know what their relationship was. We do know Rope, she wasn't facing any criminal charges. The investigation didn't conclude she should be removed from office. It didn't conclude that she should face any penalties at this point. So Where this goes from here and what exactly he wants to happen from here, because Robes, he's making the accusation that, yes, ever since he initially came out with this in what back in April, she's retaliated, retaliated against him and made his job difficult. So he might be fighting to hold on to his job. Does he want compensation? We don't exactly know. It's just, Robes, we're used to, you hear people say, I don't guess it's necessarily funny. But almost people sometimes take, it's not, it's not pride, but sometimes even when a woman maybe behaves badly in positions of power, They point to it and say, yeah, just like the men. They can do this just like the men. And here we are. If I told you there was a mayor accused of sexual harassment for putting his hand on his employee's thigh during a budget meeting, and then I told you it was a woman mayor, you'd go, what? We don't think that way. But who knows? You want to leave space, but damn, this is ugly and it's just a shame.
00:10:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a shame. She just took office in January.
00:10:48
Speaker 1: She just got there.
00:10:49
Speaker 2: Just took office in January.
00:10:50
Speaker 3: And she is saying that she is not going to leave office in light of this new lawsuit. And we also should mention the other claim is that she made sexual innuendos about the size of his manhood as well to him. So it was beyond just touching him. She also referred to the size of his penis.
00:11:09
Speaker 1: And yes, folks, by definition... That is sexual harassment. Stay here. I'll remind you of that definition in just a moment. And we're certainly more so used to seeing men accused of sexual harassment in the workplace more so than women. But just how big is that split? Stay here.
00:11:35
Speaker 3: Welcome back, everyone, to Amy and TJ as the drama in St. Paul, Minnesota continues with the police chief now bringing a formal lawsuit against the mayor claiming sexual harassment. It is interesting when you think about why this story does stand out so much, because when you think of sexual harassment complaints in the workplace, you think of women complaining about men.
00:11:59
Speaker 1: We've been a long time. Have you ever been aware of a complaint that was lodged at any place you worked at that was a man complaining about a woman in terms of sexual harassment? I'm trying to think of one.
00:12:16
Speaker 2: I haven't had that experience.
00:12:18
Speaker 3: And I would just say oftentimes, look, I have had a few female bosses, but usually it's the men who are in charge. So the dynamic isn't even there for it to present itself because typically... It isn't women who are in charge of men. I mean, we haven't, at least when I was coming up, I didn't see that very often.
00:12:35
Speaker 1: But in our, well, I'm trying to think back a little farther.
00:12:37
Speaker 2: I had a couple news directors.
00:12:38
Speaker 1: But there's always a lot of executive producers or producers who are in charge of. I don't want to say interns, but yes, interns, sometimes PA and lower level people. I just, I'm trying to think of a, of a time or an incident throughout my career where I was aware that a guy filed a complaint against a woman anywhere that I actually work. Oh, just curious to know if something would pop to your mind.
00:12:57
Speaker 3: Nope. Don't, I can't think of one at all. And I think if everyone kind of.
00:13:01
Speaker 2: Maybe, maybe, but they're, they're obviously rare.
00:13:04
Speaker 3: And the, I guess the statistics support our experience because who files sexual harassment complaints in the workplace is 78.2% are by women.
00:13:16
Speaker 2: And that, I actually would think it was even higher than that.
00:13:18
Speaker 1: I would too.
00:13:18
Speaker 2: I would have thought it was like 90%. I would too.
00:13:21
Speaker 3: I'm actually surprised that at least 22% of them are men. Wow, that's almost a quarter of all sexual harassment complaints in the workplace are men complaining about women. Wow, now that I think about it, that's exceptionally high.
00:13:36
Speaker 1: I thought so too. I don't know. I don't know. I was shocked by that number. But yes, a reminder here, Robes and I, people really have an understanding of what sexual harassment is. Harassment is such a strong word. It sounds like you need to be physically doing something or intimidating her. Yes, folks, a joke counts. An unwanted joke, an unwanted comment, all these things matter. I can't remember where I originally got this from, but this is the official definition, Robes, of sexual harassment. It is from one... I got it from a legit source. We used this once before. Harassment can include... unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical harassment of a sexual nature. However, Robes, harassment does not have to be of a sexual nature and can include offensive remarks about a person's sex. Also, both victim and the harasser can be either man or woman. The victim and harasser can be the same sex. It might not be the norm, Robes, And so then I read that and think about some of the men who were harassed. How many of them were actually harassed by men in the workplace and not by women? That number we're talking about.
00:14:50
Speaker 2: Oh, that's a good point.
00:14:51
Speaker 1: Isn't that something?
00:14:52
Speaker 2: That's a good point. I hadn't thought about that as well.
00:14:54
Speaker 1: Now, that I am aware of. Oh, really? In my career.
00:14:58
Speaker 2: Yes, you have seen.
00:14:59
Speaker 1: That happen before. A man complaining about another man at work.
00:15:02
Speaker 3: That actually might make a little bit more sense with those numbers because... Look, I'm not saying women aren't capable of harassing men sexually, but I just think it seems like it would be more rare than what those numbers suggest.
00:15:17
Speaker 1: What does that take? I've never gotten to the point. I have been uncomfortable plenty of times in my career with how an executive producer or a female executive in charge talks to me, how it gets a little too close to me. You know, I don't like being touched, right? Now that, I have never gotten close to thinking, man, I need to go into HR. But Rose, that stuff happens and it's uncomfortable.
00:15:46
Speaker 2: I have gone to HR.
00:15:48
Speaker 1: But women, you all deal with something other level to a point. I can't imagine what level it had to get to before you actually went to HR.
00:15:57
Speaker 3: Oh, well, I can tell you what it was. Someone on camera decided it was okay to talk about what it would be like to have me give him a blowjob.
00:16:06
Speaker 2: So for me, that rose.
00:16:07
Speaker 1: To the level. That's exactly to my point. It had to rise to that level of, obviously, that's ridiculous. But every single day, most women go into an office and they deal with something they just have to All right, let me deal with that one today.
00:16:23
Speaker 3: When no one else sees it, when no one else hears it, oh, I mean, I could name, I would say I could name a dozen men who are names, who have said such unbelievably inappropriate things, sent texts, and actually physically touched me.
00:16:37
Speaker 2: So yes, and did I complain about any of them?
00:16:39
Speaker 3: No.
00:16:40
Speaker 2: Because they happened behind.
00:16:41
Speaker 3: Closed doors, or it just was going to be too much of a disruption to my career to bring it up or to say it out loud.
00:16:48
Speaker 2: So yes, you're right.
00:16:49
Speaker 3: It had to rise to a level where it was actually broadcast on television for all to see that I actually felt justified or comfortable going to HR and filing a formal complaint. And all the man had to do, by the way, was apologize to me, to my face. That was his punishment.
00:17:07
Speaker 1: I don't know what.
00:17:10
Speaker 1: We say punishment. What's his recourse now? This police chief.
00:17:16
Speaker 2: He wants her out of office, right?
00:17:18
Speaker 1: Is he going to get that? Is that a part of the lawsuit? No, obviously he can't force her out of office. But it's a reminder that it doesn't have to be a hand on a leg. It doesn't have to be a man against a woman. So much of sexual harassment. I think people walking around, probably well-intentioned people, have said something somewhere in an office, didn't think anything of it, and that person went home and cried and they don't even know it.
00:17:44
Speaker 2: It's so true.
00:17:46
Speaker 3: And I think everyone listening probably has their own story.
00:17:49
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, this is pervasive. It happens often.
00:17:52
Speaker 3: And in terms of what happens to her while this lawsuit is going on, a spokesperson actually said that she'll continue to lead and that they are claiming that an independent investigation, quote, did not substantiate claims of sexual harassment or retaliation after he made those first allegations back in April.
00:18:12
Speaker 2: So they say if anyone.
00:18:14
Speaker 3: Wants her gone, it's literally going to be up to the voters because it's not something, it's a very complicated process to remove a mayor from office who has just been elected and just been put in office.
00:18:29
Speaker 1: You know, and that's great. We say just, if we're sitting here in September now, that letter was in April.
00:18:34
Speaker 3: Wow.
00:18:34
Speaker 1: She was barely in office. Wow. When she got noticed that this lawsuit was coming, what did she do in January, February, March? First three months already, police chief.
00:18:46
Speaker 2: That is crazy to think.
00:18:47
Speaker 3: It was just three months or so into her position, her newly earned position. But I'm sure this is far from over, and we will continue to watch what's going on there in St. Paul. We always appreciate you listening to us. I'm Amy Robach, alongside TJ Holmes.
00:19:03
Speaker 2: We'll talk soon.
Speaker 1: Hey there, folks. It is Friday, September 25th, and Minnesota has a MILF on its hands, at least according to a new lawsuit that says one mayor of a major city in Minnesota has been saying all kinds of outlandish stuff and includes calling herself a MILF. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Robes is a story we covered before. It has had to do with Wiener Wednesday. It's getting stranger.
00:00:31
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:00:32
Speaker 3: And it's getting stranger, but it's getting more interesting.
00:00:36
Speaker 2: And I loved what you said earlier.
00:00:39
Speaker 3: If you all know our feed well, you know we do a thing called Morning Run. And when we talked about this story briefly, you mentioned MILF. And I said, wow, what person calls themselves a mom.
00:00:52
Speaker 2: I'd like to F? And you said, What if she's saying she's a mayor? I'd like to F.
00:00:58
Speaker 1: I don't have the clarity. I can't get that out of my head. I don't know if there's... Really, I don't know what she meant. Maybe she did mean mayor.
00:01:05
Speaker 2: Okay, either way, it's wildly inappropriate.
00:01:07
Speaker 1: A milf. And bizarre. We're talking St. Paul, Minnesota. The first woman, right, ever elected mayor of that town?
00:01:13
Speaker 2: Yes, and I just don't think you can call yourself that, I guess is my point.
00:01:17
Speaker 1: Generally speaking, is that something... Yeah.
00:01:20
Speaker 3: No, you're called that by someone else. It's a compliment, kind of. It's a little objectifying, but it's a compliment when you reach a certain age, I guess.
00:01:28
Speaker 1: But she's 56. That's kind of the point.
00:01:31
Speaker 3: She's 53. She's 53. But you don't refer to yourself as one. That just doesn't typically happen.
00:01:38
Speaker 1: Well, Kaylee Herr can. Mayor Kaylee Herr has actually robes for months. been in the headlines and been in some trouble with investigations and accusations. But now this has gone to a new level. She is facing a lawsuit and robes from some, it might be every mayor, probably the person they need to work closest with.
00:01:58
Speaker 2: Is the police chief.
00:01:59
Speaker 3: Yes.
00:01:59
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
00:02:00
Speaker 3: And so Mayor Kayleigh Herr is now being sued for sexual harassment by the police chief, Alex Henry. And among the new allegations in this sexual harassment lawsuit is Yes, that she called herself a MILF, but also that she grabbed aforementioned police chief's upper thigh under, what, a conference table in a budget meeting?
00:02:24
Speaker 1: This budget meeting is going to be boring, I'll bet. I'll spice this thing up a little bit.
00:02:29
Speaker 2: I mean, I get it.
00:02:30
Speaker 3: Maybe you're a little bored or whatever, but that just seems highly unusual.
00:02:36
Speaker 1: You know, I need to stop there because, and you know what? You could take me to task for this. I know there's Wiener Wednesday and MILF, but tonally, would I be saying something different? Would never a smirk come across our faces if we were talking about a male mayor doing this stuff to a female police chief. For whatever reason, and I'm stopping myself, because I'm thinking, touching the leg under the table, ooh, it's a budget meeting, they can be, that type of stuff. Robes, if a man did this to a woman, and a man in power did this to a woman who is his employee, do you think, tonally, we would look at this differently?
00:03:20
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yes.
00:03:21
Speaker 3: You think so?
00:03:21
Speaker 1: I just wondered.
00:03:22
Speaker 2: Because, yes, and look, I think it's just, Should we?
00:03:25
Speaker 3: Well, Yes and no, because I understand what you're saying, and that's all true. Obviously, the reason why we're more wink, wink, nod, nod, and that's not okay to dismiss this as anything other than what it is, which is potentially illegal, and wildly inappropriate, but just the power structure of.
00:03:45
Speaker 2: Men and women.
00:03:46
Speaker 3: And there's no physical intimidation. There's no historic superiority, and so when it's reversed, it doesn't seem as offensive because obviously, especially, she's not only a woman, but she is from Laos, she's a smaller woman. I'm just saying even physically, just to see the predator or the attacker be this small Asian woman versus a male police chief. That's not a likely adversarial role.
00:04:21
Speaker 2: It would typically be reversed.
00:04:23
Speaker 3: So when you're seeing something unusual like this where the power dynamics are unusual, to have this type of allegation.
00:04:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, physical power dynamics are different, but the actual power dynamics, she's still in charge. She is his boss. That is true. And this is happening. And Robes, it does. Some of the headlines about this, yes, we first started talking about this earlier this summer when this all came out. Wiener Wednesday? Like, even some of the things, she's been accused of calling herself a MILF and sending around jokes about Wiener Wednesday. That's just... silly.
00:04:58
Speaker 3: It sounds to me inappropriate. It sounds a little pathetic, like attention seeking, but in kind of a, almost like a juvenile way.
00:05:08
Speaker 1: That was the word I was about to use.
00:05:09
Speaker 3: It feels immature in a weird way for a 53 year old woman to be acting like that. But Who knows what her experience is and it's worked before and people think she's funny or cute or a little provocative, but it's obviously inappropriate. Now, when you get to touching someone else, unwanted touching, now that's a.
00:05:29
Speaker 2: Whole other thing.
00:05:31
Speaker 3: I was trying to imagine like, would you ever, if you're laughing or joking with someone, squeeze someone's leg or something?
00:05:36
Speaker 2: Probably not.
00:05:37
Speaker 3: I was just trying to think like, is there ever a time where like my brother and I would like do that to each other and laugh? And I was like, could it have been jovial or like colleague to colleague?
00:05:49
Speaker 2: She should still have known better. Was it sexual? Was it a, hey baby? I mean, I don't know. It's still wrong, but I just don't know what her intent was.
00:06:08
Speaker 1: Does it matter?
00:06:10
Speaker 3: If it's unwanted or unprovoked or not consensual, absolutely no, it should not matter.
00:06:16
Speaker 2: It should be wrong, period.
00:06:17
Speaker 1: The mayor put her hand on my upper thigh twice during a budget meeting. Do I need context of what their relationship was?
00:06:26
Speaker 2: No, the idea of putting... anyone putting their hand on someone's upper thigh. You wouldn't, baby. No, you cannot. I was just trying to like, is there... No, there's not.
00:06:35
Speaker 1: You don't have a scenario.
00:06:36
Speaker 2: There's no scenario.
00:06:36
Speaker 1: Put yourself in any situation, at any dinner, with anybody, anything.
00:06:40
Speaker 2: I could only put my hand on your upper thigh.
00:06:43
Speaker 1: That's it. And depending on how we're doing that day, I might find it inappropriate.
00:06:48
Speaker 2: That's funny.
00:06:50
Speaker 1: But we were talking about this. The original complaint letter from April Robes, they essentially put the mayor and the city on notice... that we're probably going to sue y'all. And sure enough, they followed through. But at least the initial complaint gives you an idea at least how this all got started. And this letter was from April.
00:07:06
Speaker 3: Yes. The city is on notice that Mayor Herr has engaged in illegal conduct towards city employees. Litigation is reasonably foreseeable. You are also aware that Mayor Herr has used one or more mobile phones to communicate inappropriate and indeed unlawful text messages.
00:07:25
Speaker 2: For example.
00:07:26
Speaker 3: Mayor Herr sent the following text message to a city employee. Here is how it reads. Happy Wiener Wednesday. Wish I was having, there was a hot dog emoji, with you all on six today when she wraps you up in.
00:07:39
Speaker 2: Her blanket after you gave her a good wienering. There's a... Do you remember the picture? Yeah, it's a picture of, it looks like, what's wrapped up?
00:07:51
Speaker 1: Like a hot dog. It was wrapped up in a blanket, right? Yes. It was like a face in it or something, like somebody's face.
00:07:55
Speaker 3: It was like a man after sex being wrapped up in a blanket or something. Okay.
00:07:59
Speaker 1: So, okay, that seems pretty inappropriate. We at the time, both of us were like, what the hell is Wiener Wednesday? It's a thing. that yes, legit hot dog promotion on Wednesdays from hot dog companies, but yes.
00:08:12
Speaker 2: It's like Taco Tuesday, but for hot dogs.
00:08:14
Speaker 1: It's Wiener Wednesday. Makes sense. Okay. Okay. But it's slang for sex, and you can understand. We don't have to explain why. It's also slang for sex. No, we do not. The mayor at the time, Robes, without completely admitting fault, admitted some fault, and at least she made some missteps, and maybe she's not as funny as she thinks she is.
00:08:32
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:08:33
Speaker 3: So her statement to this was, and will continue to do so. I respect the investigative process and believe it is important to allow it to reach its conclusion. I remain confident that the full facts will come to light, and I will continue to focus on serving the people of St. Paul with integrity and dedication.
00:09:10
Speaker 1: Maybe that's possible. It sucks, Ro. This is the first female mayor. of St. Paul, Minnesota.
00:09:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is a bummer that the first female mayor is now being accused of sexual harassment and illegal conduct.
00:09:25
Speaker 1: We don't know all the details. We don't know what their relationship was. We do know Rope, she wasn't facing any criminal charges. The investigation didn't conclude she should be removed from office. It didn't conclude that she should face any penalties at this point. So Where this goes from here and what exactly he wants to happen from here, because Robes, he's making the accusation that, yes, ever since he initially came out with this in what back in April, she's retaliated, retaliated against him and made his job difficult. So he might be fighting to hold on to his job. Does he want compensation? We don't exactly know. It's just, Robes, we're used to, you hear people say, I don't guess it's necessarily funny. But almost people sometimes take, it's not, it's not pride, but sometimes even when a woman maybe behaves badly in positions of power, They point to it and say, yeah, just like the men. They can do this just like the men. And here we are. If I told you there was a mayor accused of sexual harassment for putting his hand on his employee's thigh during a budget meeting, and then I told you it was a woman mayor, you'd go, what? We don't think that way. But who knows? You want to leave space, but damn, this is ugly and it's just a shame.
00:10:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a shame. She just took office in January.
00:10:48
Speaker 1: She just got there.
00:10:49
Speaker 2: Just took office in January.
00:10:50
Speaker 3: And she is saying that she is not going to leave office in light of this new lawsuit. And we also should mention the other claim is that she made sexual innuendos about the size of his manhood as well to him. So it was beyond just touching him. She also referred to the size of his penis.
00:11:09
Speaker 1: And yes, folks, by definition... That is sexual harassment. Stay here. I'll remind you of that definition in just a moment. And we're certainly more so used to seeing men accused of sexual harassment in the workplace more so than women. But just how big is that split? Stay here.
00:11:35
Speaker 3: Welcome back, everyone, to Amy and TJ as the drama in St. Paul, Minnesota continues with the police chief now bringing a formal lawsuit against the mayor claiming sexual harassment. It is interesting when you think about why this story does stand out so much, because when you think of sexual harassment complaints in the workplace, you think of women complaining about men.
00:11:59
Speaker 1: We've been a long time. Have you ever been aware of a complaint that was lodged at any place you worked at that was a man complaining about a woman in terms of sexual harassment? I'm trying to think of one.
00:12:16
Speaker 2: I haven't had that experience.
00:12:18
Speaker 3: And I would just say oftentimes, look, I have had a few female bosses, but usually it's the men who are in charge. So the dynamic isn't even there for it to present itself because typically... It isn't women who are in charge of men. I mean, we haven't, at least when I was coming up, I didn't see that very often.
00:12:35
Speaker 1: But in our, well, I'm trying to think back a little farther.
00:12:37
Speaker 2: I had a couple news directors.
00:12:38
Speaker 1: But there's always a lot of executive producers or producers who are in charge of. I don't want to say interns, but yes, interns, sometimes PA and lower level people. I just, I'm trying to think of a, of a time or an incident throughout my career where I was aware that a guy filed a complaint against a woman anywhere that I actually work. Oh, just curious to know if something would pop to your mind.
00:12:57
Speaker 3: Nope. Don't, I can't think of one at all. And I think if everyone kind of.
00:13:01
Speaker 2: Maybe, maybe, but they're, they're obviously rare.
00:13:04
Speaker 3: And the, I guess the statistics support our experience because who files sexual harassment complaints in the workplace is 78.2% are by women.
00:13:16
Speaker 2: And that, I actually would think it was even higher than that.
00:13:18
Speaker 1: I would too.
00:13:18
Speaker 2: I would have thought it was like 90%. I would too.
00:13:21
Speaker 3: I'm actually surprised that at least 22% of them are men. Wow, that's almost a quarter of all sexual harassment complaints in the workplace are men complaining about women. Wow, now that I think about it, that's exceptionally high.
00:13:36
Speaker 1: I thought so too. I don't know. I don't know. I was shocked by that number. But yes, a reminder here, Robes and I, people really have an understanding of what sexual harassment is. Harassment is such a strong word. It sounds like you need to be physically doing something or intimidating her. Yes, folks, a joke counts. An unwanted joke, an unwanted comment, all these things matter. I can't remember where I originally got this from, but this is the official definition, Robes, of sexual harassment. It is from one... I got it from a legit source. We used this once before. Harassment can include... unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical harassment of a sexual nature. However, Robes, harassment does not have to be of a sexual nature and can include offensive remarks about a person's sex. Also, both victim and the harasser can be either man or woman. The victim and harasser can be the same sex. It might not be the norm, Robes, And so then I read that and think about some of the men who were harassed. How many of them were actually harassed by men in the workplace and not by women? That number we're talking about.
00:14:50
Speaker 2: Oh, that's a good point.
00:14:51
Speaker 1: Isn't that something?
00:14:52
Speaker 2: That's a good point. I hadn't thought about that as well.
00:14:54
Speaker 1: Now, that I am aware of. Oh, really? In my career.
00:14:58
Speaker 2: Yes, you have seen.
00:14:59
Speaker 1: That happen before. A man complaining about another man at work.
00:15:02
Speaker 3: That actually might make a little bit more sense with those numbers because... Look, I'm not saying women aren't capable of harassing men sexually, but I just think it seems like it would be more rare than what those numbers suggest.
00:15:17
Speaker 1: What does that take? I've never gotten to the point. I have been uncomfortable plenty of times in my career with how an executive producer or a female executive in charge talks to me, how it gets a little too close to me. You know, I don't like being touched, right? Now that, I have never gotten close to thinking, man, I need to go into HR. But Rose, that stuff happens and it's uncomfortable.
00:15:46
Speaker 2: I have gone to HR.
00:15:48
Speaker 1: But women, you all deal with something other level to a point. I can't imagine what level it had to get to before you actually went to HR.
00:15:57
Speaker 3: Oh, well, I can tell you what it was. Someone on camera decided it was okay to talk about what it would be like to have me give him a blowjob.
00:16:06
Speaker 2: So for me, that rose.
00:16:07
Speaker 1: To the level. That's exactly to my point. It had to rise to that level of, obviously, that's ridiculous. But every single day, most women go into an office and they deal with something they just have to All right, let me deal with that one today.
00:16:23
Speaker 3: When no one else sees it, when no one else hears it, oh, I mean, I could name, I would say I could name a dozen men who are names, who have said such unbelievably inappropriate things, sent texts, and actually physically touched me.
00:16:37
Speaker 2: So yes, and did I complain about any of them?
00:16:39
Speaker 3: No.
00:16:40
Speaker 2: Because they happened behind.
00:16:41
Speaker 3: Closed doors, or it just was going to be too much of a disruption to my career to bring it up or to say it out loud.
00:16:48
Speaker 2: So yes, you're right.
00:16:49
Speaker 3: It had to rise to a level where it was actually broadcast on television for all to see that I actually felt justified or comfortable going to HR and filing a formal complaint. And all the man had to do, by the way, was apologize to me, to my face. That was his punishment.
00:17:07
Speaker 1: I don't know what.
00:17:10
Speaker 1: We say punishment. What's his recourse now? This police chief.
00:17:16
Speaker 2: He wants her out of office, right?
00:17:18
Speaker 1: Is he going to get that? Is that a part of the lawsuit? No, obviously he can't force her out of office. But it's a reminder that it doesn't have to be a hand on a leg. It doesn't have to be a man against a woman. So much of sexual harassment. I think people walking around, probably well-intentioned people, have said something somewhere in an office, didn't think anything of it, and that person went home and cried and they don't even know it.
00:17:44
Speaker 2: It's so true.
00:17:46
Speaker 3: And I think everyone listening probably has their own story.
00:17:49
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, this is pervasive. It happens often.
00:17:52
Speaker 3: And in terms of what happens to her while this lawsuit is going on, a spokesperson actually said that she'll continue to lead and that they are claiming that an independent investigation, quote, did not substantiate claims of sexual harassment or retaliation after he made those first allegations back in April.
00:18:12
Speaker 2: So they say if anyone.
00:18:14
Speaker 3: Wants her gone, it's literally going to be up to the voters because it's not something, it's a very complicated process to remove a mayor from office who has just been elected and just been put in office.
00:18:29
Speaker 1: You know, and that's great. We say just, if we're sitting here in September now, that letter was in April.
00:18:34
Speaker 3: Wow.
00:18:34
Speaker 1: She was barely in office. Wow. When she got noticed that this lawsuit was coming, what did she do in January, February, March? First three months already, police chief.
00:18:46
Speaker 2: That is crazy to think.
00:18:47
Speaker 3: It was just three months or so into her position, her newly earned position. But I'm sure this is far from over, and we will continue to watch what's going on there in St. Paul. We always appreciate you listening to us. I'm Amy Robach, alongside TJ Holmes.
00:19:03
Speaker 2: We'll talk soon.