June 9, 2026
Murder, Manslaughter Or Not Guilty: Karmelo Anthony’s Fate Now In The Hands Of Jurors
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RSS Feed Closing arguments wrapped this morning in the trial of Texas teen, Karmelo Anthony. The judge instructed the jury they can now consider manslaughter in addition to first degree murder when determining the fate of Anthony. Prosecutors told jurors they can’t reach manslaughter until they unanimously acquit Anthony first of murder. The defense reminded jurors that the victim, fellow teen Austin Metcalf, had no right to put his hands on Anthony and when it comes to self defense, you cannot wait until it’s too late.
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00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hey the folks, it is Tuesday, June ninth, and a developing story. This afternoon, the jury is deliberating in the high profile, headline making murder trial of Texas teen Carmelo Anthony. With that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ World. It is Tuesday. It's Tuesday. This whole trial started last Monday, and the jury is already deliberating a jury that wasn't even fully seated a week ago. Today, this thing is flying by.
00:00:30
Speaker 2: It's pretty remarkable.
00:00:31
Speaker 3: Yes, the jury was fully seated on Wednesday, so opening statements and testimony didn't even begin until Thursday. They did have a Saturday session which helped hurry things along. But yes, this has been speedy, this has been efficient, and now we're getting word that the jury is going to be able to consider something other than first degree murder.
00:00:51
Speaker 1: And first degree murder is what would send him to jail for up to ninety nine years, that is what would be considered roges. This is relevant, This is significant in this case, a case that has made headlines. Robes, yes, for the crime itself would have made a lot of headlines for what came after, which was essentially a racial back and forth nastiness. This became a case about race after the fact, But the crime itself, we should always make clear, was not about race, and no suggestion that it was.
00:01:22
Speaker 3: No. This just really was about ego, it seems, and it was about two seventeen year olds who were trying to assert their control over a situation. You had Carmelo Anthony in another high school's tent in a pretty significant rainstorm. His high school didn't have a tent. He, according to several witnesses, had a friend or a family friend who he saw, so he was invited into that tent.
00:01:48
Speaker 2: Correct.
00:01:48
Speaker 1: So yeah, but ros all you talk about is too high school kids beefing.
00:01:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really what it comes down.
00:01:55
Speaker 1: Was a nothing situation that escalated is going to change the course of the lives of two separate families. But Robes all came down to whether or not this was self defense. Yes, Carmelo Anthony is a seventeen year old black kid. Austin Metcalf seventeen year old white kid, two different schools at attract meet. They end up in the same place. He tells him to get out of my tent. Austin Metcalf. All these kids were telling Carmela to get out of there, and he says, make me right, and he's threatening eye, but you won't put your hands on me. This was minor, nothing, beefing that should never have escalated to what it was. So, yes, Carmelo Anthony had a knife in his bag, why he brought it to attract meet who the hell knows?
00:02:35
Speaker 4: But Robes.
00:02:36
Speaker 1: There was no suggestion that these two knew each other, had a history, race was involved, Nothing like.
00:02:44
Speaker 4: This that adds to the tragedy.
00:02:47
Speaker 1: Robes just how unnecessary, petty and these little beefs happen every single day at high schos.
00:02:53
Speaker 3: Yes, it's just normally you don't have someone who has a pocket knife that they grab out of their bag and look in and that split second he made a decision to stab, and he doesn't deny it to stab. Austin metcalf I think my big issue is listening to what we've been able to get out of the testimony because there aren't cameras in the courtmen, so we've relied on really like impressive folks journalists who are there in the courtroom giving us basically what they've heard, what they've seen, And it's hard for me to get my head around the idea that Carmelo Anthony intended to murder Austin Metcalf And so that's always been the tough thing, this first degree murder charge. So to have manslaughter now as an option for the jury, to me, makes a lot of sense. Look, I haven't been sitting through all of the testimony, but from what we've read, that makes a lot more sense. Yes, he killed him, but did he intend to? Did he premeditate that act? And I know you can premeditate something within seconds before you actually commit the act. It doesn't have to be something you planned in the days and weeks leading up to the event.
00:04:00
Speaker 2: You can make the decision.
00:04:02
Speaker 3: You can plan to do it thirty seconds before you do it. It just seems hard for me to believe that he intended to kill him.
00:04:10
Speaker 4: So you just hit on what is.
00:04:11
Speaker 1: Yes, we say the development is and the breaking story is that the jury is deliberating, but Robes. The headline today has to be that this jury is now going to consider not sending this kid to prison for the rest of his life.
00:04:29
Speaker 4: He's eighteen now.
00:04:30
Speaker 2: Nineteen now, I think he's nineteen.
00:04:32
Speaker 1: Now they are now getting that consideration. I haven't seen a lot of reaction to it. This has only happened just a short time ago as of this recording. But Robes, this came out of I shouldn't say nowhere from the judge. But the judge has the right to do this. He sat through the trial and he's made the determination that this should be an option, and he put it on the table, he put it in the jury instruction, and Robes in some way this seems like a compromise, and space it does.
00:05:01
Speaker 3: And I actually was wondering with that long delay. There was a long delay yesterday before the defense officially rested. And sure it may have been to give Carmelo Anthony a little bit of time to make a final decision as to whether or not he would testify. He decided not to testify, But we also wondered if there was any bargaining going on, if there was any plea deals being talked about. Certainly maybe perhaps this idea of manslaughter could have come into question or come up for conversation, because we know that Carmelo Anthony's parents were called into the courtroom and eventually Austin Metcalf's parents were called into that courtroom.
00:05:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then this was a situation. This was the judge that got to make this call. This wasn't an emotions certainly put forward by the prosecution. You know, they want the toughest charge. The defense even didn't appreciate this being added in there because it had to add some other language that made his actions sound a little more aggressive. There was something in the jury instruction they didn't like that went along with the manslaughter charge, which would be a lesser charge, but they still didn't like it. But the judge, even though the defense objected, moving forward. So the jury now is going in there. And Robes, I find this fascinating as we get to the defense and the prosecution closing arguments that the prosecution was making this argument and Robes, this is a he said, don't even think about manslaughter in less in your first discussion about first degree murder. You have to acquit him of that and then consider manslaughter.
00:06:32
Speaker 4: Robes, that's a.
00:06:32
Speaker 2: Tough bar, I know.
00:06:33
Speaker 3: And he said you have to unanimously acquit him of murder box and he made a do you have it in here where he said you'd actually have to believe basically that Austin impaled himself on Carmelo's knife. I don't know what to tell you find him guilty of manslaughter if you think Austin impaled himself on Carmelo's knife.
00:06:56
Speaker 2: Obviously he was sarcastic when he was saying that.
00:06:59
Speaker 3: I think anybody would believe that, And certainly that's not what's been implied in any way, shape or form. But that was what he said in his closing argument, among many other things he said. And look, he made a lot of solid points in his closing.
00:07:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Robes, I think that's that's a fair point that he's making. It reads one way as we're reading it here, don't know how it came about. But Rose, he's saying, this is ridiculous to suggest manslaughter or an oopsie kind of a thing. Robes and I get stuck on this, I really get stuck. There's no I don't know this kid. I don't know either one of these kids. I wasn't there, none of us were. But to think that a seventeen year old went into the track meet thinking he was going to kill someone that day or wanted to kill someone in that day, or is it a move to just be a bad ass that day? Robes, he made an awful decision, an awful decision in a split second when he had several minutes to make a better decision. Yeah, he screwed up, bad babe.
00:07:58
Speaker 3: But yeah, yes, should he pay the rest of his life? For the rest of his life? The manslaughter charge I believe is two to twenty years the life, I mean, the murder charge is up to ninety nine years.
00:08:11
Speaker 4: Yeah, but it was as low right like five.
00:08:14
Speaker 2: It is a bizarre range.
00:08:16
Speaker 4: But Robes, as a parent, as.
00:08:18
Speaker 1: Do don't think about race, And you have to think about Austin Metcalf's parents. Don't they think we want him to get the harshest sentence ever? Or Robes or Robes? Are they also the parents of seventeen year old or teenage boys? And do they have something in their heart that recognizes this seventeen year old kid really screwed up.
00:08:41
Speaker 2: It's hard, is it?
00:08:42
Speaker 3: It's possible, It is possible, yes, And look, I don't know anything about the Metcalf family. We've seen a couple interviews they've done. They've been very emotional, as you might imagine. But I do know that Austin's father has gone on television and has made the rounds to really try and bring the temperature down with the racial back and forth, very clearly stating this was not about black and white, this wasn't about race at all. So I have seen him do his best to bring the temperature.
00:09:13
Speaker 2: Down, which speaks to maybe he's.
00:09:16
Speaker 3: Able to remove some of the emotion that he's clearly feeling, that his wife and his son are clearly feeling about the loss of Austin, and maybe it did seem like he had.
00:09:25
Speaker 2: A calmer head about a way forward.
00:09:28
Speaker 4: Now.
00:09:28
Speaker 3: I have no idea what they want, or what they're hoping for, or what verdict would make them feel like they got justice for their son. But the prosecutor was very very specific in his closing arguments about what he wants the jury to choose. He wants the jury to go with this first degree murder charge. He said, you don't get to kill someone just because they are bigger than you.
00:09:50
Speaker 1: That line hits, baby, It does. It absolutely does you. Yes, you can meet force with force, but it's got to be equal force. You can knot if somebody he comes up to me on the street tomorrow ropes then slaps me. I cannot pull out a gun and just shoot that person. You're not allowed to do that.
00:10:07
Speaker 3: And I guess yes, and that's absolutely true. I think everybody agrees with that. But I think it's interesting the prosecutor clearly was trying to undo any sympathy the jury may feel for Carmelo Anthony because he is a kid. He's a kid sitting there who had a future too, who was going to college. He's now nineteen, but he was seventeen at the time, and so he made a point to say, don't be sloppy in your thinking that it's a tragedy for Carmelo. It's not a tragedy for him. It's the decisions he made and that he has to come to terms with.
00:10:42
Speaker 1: I know what he's saying there. I know what he's saying. I just there are some people who make bad decisions that result in really awful, awful consequences Robes. But it does not go back and mean that the person who perpetrated it is a monster deserving of the worst thing possible.
00:11:02
Speaker 4: It's not.
00:11:03
Speaker 1: And this sounds like sympathy for but Robes. We do have to take all this in contact. There's a reason we don't a fourteen year old, we don't charge as an adult there's a reason that we don't do these things. Yes, he's seventeen at the time, so he was charged an adult, but these are children. We have to take that into account. Robes And if it sounds like sympathy, I don't.
00:11:23
Speaker 2: Know, it just respective.
00:11:25
Speaker 3: Maybe it is taking all of the information into account. And I think, look the murder versus the manslaughter. To me, it's really when when you heard the testimony, when we kind of all know what happened, I don't think it's really in dispute. Yes, what happened, how it happened, and who did what to whom. So now it's just where do you define this grievance? How do you define this grievance?
00:11:51
Speaker 2: Is it murder?
00:11:51
Speaker 3: If it's murder, the jury must believe beyond all reasonable doubt that the defendant intentionally or knowingly caused the death another person.
00:12:01
Speaker 1: That's tough for me right there in the jury room. I'm done agree, I will not do. I believe that he intentionally and knowingly wanted to kill Austin Metkin.
00:12:13
Speaker 3: He wanted to hurt him, he wanted to harm him, he wanted to get away a point, he wanted to prove a point. But murder, So the manslaughter the jury must believe Carmelo recklessly caused the death of another person.
00:12:25
Speaker 4: Ding me.
00:12:26
Speaker 1: That lands ding ding Ding, I mean, you cannot get away from that. And how are they going to prove did anyone prove the defense prove that he was so fearful that he had you have to prove, Robes, I thought my life was in danger.
00:12:40
Speaker 2: And that's the not guilty verdict.
00:12:42
Speaker 3: And that's tough for me to get my head around that as well, because here are their choices, not guilty murder or manslaughter.
00:12:51
Speaker 2: Three choices.
00:12:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess this should be a hung jury, Robes. I guess you could get in there and have the arguments and discussions like we're having. How many parents are in that room, how many parents of teenagers are in room. How many people are in that room who have black people living next to them, who have an experience with a black teenager. How many folks in that room ain't been around black folks at all because.
00:13:08
Speaker 2: There are no black folks on the jury.
00:13:10
Speaker 3: I know we've said this, but just wanted to put that out in this episode, just to remind everyone there are no black people on that jury.
00:13:16
Speaker 1: It should be repeated in every single time we do an episode about Carmelo Anthony.
00:13:20
Speaker 4: Yes, Rope, so all those questions.
00:13:21
Speaker 1: I have no idea what this jury looks like, what they're bringing into that room. But you have to think you cannot have twelve people with the same experience who can all get in thene and go yep, first degree murder. I just I have a hard time believing that, Robes. And if people are willing to believe that this is a kid that made an awful mistake who does need to be held accountable for it, But is he the worst of our society who went to attract meet intending to murder another high school kid. That's just that's a hard no for me.
00:13:57
Speaker 2: Yes, same for me.
00:13:58
Speaker 3: When we come back, we're gonna tell you what the defense had to say to jurors in their closing arguments before they took the case.
00:14:07
Speaker 2: And welcome back.
00:14:16
Speaker 3: To everyone to this episode of Amy and TJ. We are talking about the trial that everyone is waiting for word from the jury. Now they have the case, they are deliberating, and this has been quick. They are already trying to determine the fate of Carmelo Anthony. He is now nineteen years old, but seventeen years old at the time of this killing. And I hesitated saying murder because now he is possibly going to be convicted of either murder manslaughter or he'll be found not guilty.
00:14:48
Speaker 2: But that's for the jury to decide right now.
00:14:49
Speaker 3: But before they went into deliberations, they heard from the defense who pointed out a lot of what the defense was arguing was Carmelo's state of mind. And we did hear them establish that in their witness testimony, that he was normal that day. He was not in a bad mood. He wasn't angry, he wasn't in a violent mood. He was just Carmelo getting ready to go to a track meet, who was complaining about the weather.
00:15:16
Speaker 1: And Rhodes a lot. I think it does talk about mindset. I mean, the prosecutor talked about you need to remember his mindset, trying to suggest that he was intending to hurt someone, but mindset robes. Uh. He didn't run out of the stadium. He told someone what he did, and by all accounts, this kid was messed up about what.
00:15:42
Speaker 2: He was doing.
00:15:43
Speaker 4: And even asked how the kid was.
00:15:45
Speaker 2: He isn't dead, is he?
00:15:47
Speaker 4: Robes God, this is dead to me.
00:15:49
Speaker 3: To me hearing that testimony about his reaction, even one of the coaches who the defense called to the stand discussed how he didn't run, how he was just straw, how he was emotional, how he was crying, how he was.
00:16:03
Speaker 2: Like, no way is he dead. I mean, look, he stabbed him one time.
00:16:06
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, he just stabbed him in the exact I say, perfect place that caused his death.
00:16:13
Speaker 2: He bled out, he hit that main artery.
00:16:15
Speaker 4: How many robes?
00:16:16
Speaker 1: How many you and I've covered so many stories in our careers in which we hear that like, yes, one strike in the right place, or if that bullet had only been a couple of millimeters the other way, Like we.
00:16:29
Speaker 4: Hear that stuff all the time.
00:16:30
Speaker 3: Robes, he just a pocket knife, stab a jab, even if.
00:16:36
Speaker 1: He'd have missed and hit the arm, if anything, Robes he hit him in a way.
00:16:41
Speaker 4: Had the kid just bled out and couldn't recover from this is just this is one of the worst robes because this well.
00:16:48
Speaker 1: I've seen this scenario so many times to kids going at it in high school. Who's the toughest, who's the biggest, who's the baddest. I gotta protect my rep this kind of foolishness, these threats, bet you won't touch me, put your hands on me, that kind of stuff. Man, and two families got and the twin you know what with the twin brother.
00:17:07
Speaker 3: Even, yeah, twin brother, and he died in his arms.
00:17:13
Speaker 4: That's your lifetime.
00:17:14
Speaker 2: You'll never forget that, oh my goodness.
00:17:16
Speaker 3: And so we heard from the defense, obviously talking about a state of mind, but also clearly trying to get obviously the not guilty verdict.
00:17:23
Speaker 2: That's what they want.
00:17:24
Speaker 3: And they talked about how they Austin had no legal right to put his hands on Carmelo Colamello.
00:17:32
Speaker 2: But that didn't work for me either.
00:17:34
Speaker 3: I do think that in terms of self defense, this is what the attorney tried to He tried to land his plane with this.
00:17:42
Speaker 2: He said.
00:17:43
Speaker 3: The thing about self defense you cannot wait until it is too late. The thing about a split second of chaos, You don't know what's going to happen. He talked a lot about how just setting the scene that Carmelo Anthony was surrounded by people who were bigger than him. You've got two, you've got twin brothers who are there towering over him.
00:18:05
Speaker 2: Little old Carmelo Anthony felt afraid and was surrounded.
00:18:09
Speaker 3: So he's trying to create this scenario in which, yes, you could possibly put yourself in Carmelo Anthony's place and think he just got scared. He got scared and made a split second decision, and he was trying to defend himself. But look, it flies in the face of so much of the prosecution's testimony, where we heard he had countless, countless opportunities just to leave, to walk away.
00:18:33
Speaker 4: Yes he did.
00:18:34
Speaker 1: Everybody had a chance to do something different. Everybody did, but Carmelo made the decision. Ultimately, that's really just torn apart. Two families, two things from the prosecutor in the closing, and I forgot about this, but you just reminded me of it. The two lines there robes in which we're talking about Carmelo Anthony being scared, for him being fearful, whatever it may be. Probs, you can't quote again quote here from the prosecution. You can't meet force with deadly force, like this idea that I was scared, I was threatened, somebody put their hands on me. That's not enough to justify pulling out a knife and stapping.
00:19:12
Speaker 2: There was no weapon brandished with him.
00:19:16
Speaker 3: So, yes, he was dealing with, Yes, someone who is larger than him, but it was somebody who was unarmed.
00:19:23
Speaker 1: The other one, you can't provoke yourself into using deadly force. You can't provoke me into coming after you and then kill me, he said. You can't provoke yourself into using deadly force. That land, and I thought about the knucklehead in Tennessee, the racist thing chat the.
00:19:47
Speaker 3: Building Chad, the buildings, yes to where he tries to provoke.
00:19:52
Speaker 1: Provoke somebody into shooting him or attacking him as well, and then he shoots the person. Right, This is a bizarrely similar scenario. You're provoking me. I reacted, and now you think you're justified in pulling a jigger and he shot a guy Robes. This is what we're talking about. That makes sense.
00:20:14
Speaker 3: You have to take responsibility for your actions that heightened the situation, that took it to the next level. And that's certainly it seems like by all accounts what Carmelo Anthony did. The big question is did he intend to kill Austin Metcalf. That is what the jury has to decide.
00:20:32
Speaker 1: They're deciding, and if they don't decide, by this evening robes they can get comfortable.
00:20:37
Speaker 3: Because they're spending the night at the motel near the courthouse. I guess they have bags with them. They were told they are going to be sequestered. Certainly an incentive for most juries to come to a decision, but this, yes, has to be a unanimous decision. They got the case just before eleven am local time, so that's around noon Eastern time. So look, it's possible with the speediness of this trial, how as quickly as it's gone, we may have a verdict by the end.
00:21:06
Speaker 2: Of the day today.
00:21:07
Speaker 3: So we will obviously be keeping our eye on this situation.
00:21:10
Speaker 4: Ropes.
00:21:11
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have been surprised if one game across while we were sitting here talking. This thing has been moving and we have seen so many times there's usually a holiday weekend or something like that. But when juries know a long weekend, if something's coming up, you got to.
00:21:24
Speaker 3: Spend the night in a hotel or a hotel, Yeah, you are going to be incentivized to come to an agreement among your jurors.
00:21:33
Speaker 2: So we will keep our eye.
00:21:34
Speaker 3: This again, could come at any point today on this case. But we always appreciate you listening to us I made Robach alongside TJ Holmes.
00:21:42
Speaker 2: We'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 1: Hey the folks, it is Tuesday, June ninth, and a developing story. This afternoon, the jury is deliberating in the high profile, headline making murder trial of Texas teen Carmelo Anthony. With that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ World. It is Tuesday. It's Tuesday. This whole trial started last Monday, and the jury is already deliberating a jury that wasn't even fully seated a week ago. Today, this thing is flying by.
00:00:30
Speaker 2: It's pretty remarkable.
00:00:31
Speaker 3: Yes, the jury was fully seated on Wednesday, so opening statements and testimony didn't even begin until Thursday. They did have a Saturday session which helped hurry things along. But yes, this has been speedy, this has been efficient, and now we're getting word that the jury is going to be able to consider something other than first degree murder.
00:00:51
Speaker 1: And first degree murder is what would send him to jail for up to ninety nine years, that is what would be considered roges. This is relevant, This is significant in this case, a case that has made headlines. Robes, yes, for the crime itself would have made a lot of headlines for what came after, which was essentially a racial back and forth nastiness. This became a case about race after the fact, But the crime itself, we should always make clear, was not about race, and no suggestion that it was.
00:01:22
Speaker 3: No. This just really was about ego, it seems, and it was about two seventeen year olds who were trying to assert their control over a situation. You had Carmelo Anthony in another high school's tent in a pretty significant rainstorm. His high school didn't have a tent. He, according to several witnesses, had a friend or a family friend who he saw, so he was invited into that tent.
00:01:48
Speaker 2: Correct.
00:01:48
Speaker 1: So yeah, but ros all you talk about is too high school kids beefing.
00:01:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really what it comes down.
00:01:55
Speaker 1: Was a nothing situation that escalated is going to change the course of the lives of two separate families. But Robes all came down to whether or not this was self defense. Yes, Carmelo Anthony is a seventeen year old black kid. Austin Metcalf seventeen year old white kid, two different schools at attract meet. They end up in the same place. He tells him to get out of my tent. Austin Metcalf. All these kids were telling Carmela to get out of there, and he says, make me right, and he's threatening eye, but you won't put your hands on me. This was minor, nothing, beefing that should never have escalated to what it was. So, yes, Carmelo Anthony had a knife in his bag, why he brought it to attract meet who the hell knows?
00:02:35
Speaker 4: But Robes.
00:02:36
Speaker 1: There was no suggestion that these two knew each other, had a history, race was involved, Nothing like.
00:02:44
Speaker 4: This that adds to the tragedy.
00:02:47
Speaker 1: Robes just how unnecessary, petty and these little beefs happen every single day at high schos.
00:02:53
Speaker 3: Yes, it's just normally you don't have someone who has a pocket knife that they grab out of their bag and look in and that split second he made a decision to stab, and he doesn't deny it to stab. Austin metcalf I think my big issue is listening to what we've been able to get out of the testimony because there aren't cameras in the courtmen, so we've relied on really like impressive folks journalists who are there in the courtroom giving us basically what they've heard, what they've seen, And it's hard for me to get my head around the idea that Carmelo Anthony intended to murder Austin Metcalf And so that's always been the tough thing, this first degree murder charge. So to have manslaughter now as an option for the jury, to me, makes a lot of sense. Look, I haven't been sitting through all of the testimony, but from what we've read, that makes a lot more sense. Yes, he killed him, but did he intend to? Did he premeditate that act? And I know you can premeditate something within seconds before you actually commit the act. It doesn't have to be something you planned in the days and weeks leading up to the event.
00:04:00
Speaker 2: You can make the decision.
00:04:02
Speaker 3: You can plan to do it thirty seconds before you do it. It just seems hard for me to believe that he intended to kill him.
00:04:10
Speaker 4: So you just hit on what is.
00:04:11
Speaker 1: Yes, we say the development is and the breaking story is that the jury is deliberating, but Robes. The headline today has to be that this jury is now going to consider not sending this kid to prison for the rest of his life.
00:04:29
Speaker 4: He's eighteen now.
00:04:30
Speaker 2: Nineteen now, I think he's nineteen.
00:04:32
Speaker 1: Now they are now getting that consideration. I haven't seen a lot of reaction to it. This has only happened just a short time ago as of this recording. But Robes, this came out of I shouldn't say nowhere from the judge. But the judge has the right to do this. He sat through the trial and he's made the determination that this should be an option, and he put it on the table, he put it in the jury instruction, and Robes in some way this seems like a compromise, and space it does.
00:05:01
Speaker 3: And I actually was wondering with that long delay. There was a long delay yesterday before the defense officially rested. And sure it may have been to give Carmelo Anthony a little bit of time to make a final decision as to whether or not he would testify. He decided not to testify, But we also wondered if there was any bargaining going on, if there was any plea deals being talked about. Certainly maybe perhaps this idea of manslaughter could have come into question or come up for conversation, because we know that Carmelo Anthony's parents were called into the courtroom and eventually Austin Metcalf's parents were called into that courtroom.
00:05:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then this was a situation. This was the judge that got to make this call. This wasn't an emotions certainly put forward by the prosecution. You know, they want the toughest charge. The defense even didn't appreciate this being added in there because it had to add some other language that made his actions sound a little more aggressive. There was something in the jury instruction they didn't like that went along with the manslaughter charge, which would be a lesser charge, but they still didn't like it. But the judge, even though the defense objected, moving forward. So the jury now is going in there. And Robes, I find this fascinating as we get to the defense and the prosecution closing arguments that the prosecution was making this argument and Robes, this is a he said, don't even think about manslaughter in less in your first discussion about first degree murder. You have to acquit him of that and then consider manslaughter.
00:06:32
Speaker 4: Robes, that's a.
00:06:32
Speaker 2: Tough bar, I know.
00:06:33
Speaker 3: And he said you have to unanimously acquit him of murder box and he made a do you have it in here where he said you'd actually have to believe basically that Austin impaled himself on Carmelo's knife. I don't know what to tell you find him guilty of manslaughter if you think Austin impaled himself on Carmelo's knife.
00:06:56
Speaker 2: Obviously he was sarcastic when he was saying that.
00:06:59
Speaker 3: I think anybody would believe that, And certainly that's not what's been implied in any way, shape or form. But that was what he said in his closing argument, among many other things he said. And look, he made a lot of solid points in his closing.
00:07:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Robes, I think that's that's a fair point that he's making. It reads one way as we're reading it here, don't know how it came about. But Rose, he's saying, this is ridiculous to suggest manslaughter or an oopsie kind of a thing. Robes and I get stuck on this, I really get stuck. There's no I don't know this kid. I don't know either one of these kids. I wasn't there, none of us were. But to think that a seventeen year old went into the track meet thinking he was going to kill someone that day or wanted to kill someone in that day, or is it a move to just be a bad ass that day? Robes, he made an awful decision, an awful decision in a split second when he had several minutes to make a better decision. Yeah, he screwed up, bad babe.
00:07:58
Speaker 3: But yeah, yes, should he pay the rest of his life? For the rest of his life? The manslaughter charge I believe is two to twenty years the life, I mean, the murder charge is up to ninety nine years.
00:08:11
Speaker 4: Yeah, but it was as low right like five.
00:08:14
Speaker 2: It is a bizarre range.
00:08:16
Speaker 4: But Robes, as a parent, as.
00:08:18
Speaker 1: Do don't think about race, And you have to think about Austin Metcalf's parents. Don't they think we want him to get the harshest sentence ever? Or Robes or Robes? Are they also the parents of seventeen year old or teenage boys? And do they have something in their heart that recognizes this seventeen year old kid really screwed up.
00:08:41
Speaker 2: It's hard, is it?
00:08:42
Speaker 3: It's possible, It is possible, yes, And look, I don't know anything about the Metcalf family. We've seen a couple interviews they've done. They've been very emotional, as you might imagine. But I do know that Austin's father has gone on television and has made the rounds to really try and bring the temperature down with the racial back and forth, very clearly stating this was not about black and white, this wasn't about race at all. So I have seen him do his best to bring the temperature.
00:09:13
Speaker 2: Down, which speaks to maybe he's.
00:09:16
Speaker 3: Able to remove some of the emotion that he's clearly feeling, that his wife and his son are clearly feeling about the loss of Austin, and maybe it did seem like he had.
00:09:25
Speaker 2: A calmer head about a way forward.
00:09:28
Speaker 4: Now.
00:09:28
Speaker 3: I have no idea what they want, or what they're hoping for, or what verdict would make them feel like they got justice for their son. But the prosecutor was very very specific in his closing arguments about what he wants the jury to choose. He wants the jury to go with this first degree murder charge. He said, you don't get to kill someone just because they are bigger than you.
00:09:50
Speaker 1: That line hits, baby, It does. It absolutely does you. Yes, you can meet force with force, but it's got to be equal force. You can knot if somebody he comes up to me on the street tomorrow ropes then slaps me. I cannot pull out a gun and just shoot that person. You're not allowed to do that.
00:10:07
Speaker 3: And I guess yes, and that's absolutely true. I think everybody agrees with that. But I think it's interesting the prosecutor clearly was trying to undo any sympathy the jury may feel for Carmelo Anthony because he is a kid. He's a kid sitting there who had a future too, who was going to college. He's now nineteen, but he was seventeen at the time, and so he made a point to say, don't be sloppy in your thinking that it's a tragedy for Carmelo. It's not a tragedy for him. It's the decisions he made and that he has to come to terms with.
00:10:42
Speaker 1: I know what he's saying there. I know what he's saying. I just there are some people who make bad decisions that result in really awful, awful consequences Robes. But it does not go back and mean that the person who perpetrated it is a monster deserving of the worst thing possible.
00:11:02
Speaker 4: It's not.
00:11:03
Speaker 1: And this sounds like sympathy for but Robes. We do have to take all this in contact. There's a reason we don't a fourteen year old, we don't charge as an adult there's a reason that we don't do these things. Yes, he's seventeen at the time, so he was charged an adult, but these are children. We have to take that into account. Robes And if it sounds like sympathy, I don't.
00:11:23
Speaker 2: Know, it just respective.
00:11:25
Speaker 3: Maybe it is taking all of the information into account. And I think, look the murder versus the manslaughter. To me, it's really when when you heard the testimony, when we kind of all know what happened, I don't think it's really in dispute. Yes, what happened, how it happened, and who did what to whom. So now it's just where do you define this grievance? How do you define this grievance?
00:11:51
Speaker 2: Is it murder?
00:11:51
Speaker 3: If it's murder, the jury must believe beyond all reasonable doubt that the defendant intentionally or knowingly caused the death another person.
00:12:01
Speaker 1: That's tough for me right there in the jury room. I'm done agree, I will not do. I believe that he intentionally and knowingly wanted to kill Austin Metkin.
00:12:13
Speaker 3: He wanted to hurt him, he wanted to harm him, he wanted to get away a point, he wanted to prove a point. But murder, So the manslaughter the jury must believe Carmelo recklessly caused the death of another person.
00:12:25
Speaker 4: Ding me.
00:12:26
Speaker 1: That lands ding ding Ding, I mean, you cannot get away from that. And how are they going to prove did anyone prove the defense prove that he was so fearful that he had you have to prove, Robes, I thought my life was in danger.
00:12:40
Speaker 2: And that's the not guilty verdict.
00:12:42
Speaker 3: And that's tough for me to get my head around that as well, because here are their choices, not guilty murder or manslaughter.
00:12:51
Speaker 2: Three choices.
00:12:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess this should be a hung jury, Robes. I guess you could get in there and have the arguments and discussions like we're having. How many parents are in that room, how many parents of teenagers are in room. How many people are in that room who have black people living next to them, who have an experience with a black teenager. How many folks in that room ain't been around black folks at all because.
00:13:08
Speaker 2: There are no black folks on the jury.
00:13:10
Speaker 3: I know we've said this, but just wanted to put that out in this episode, just to remind everyone there are no black people on that jury.
00:13:16
Speaker 1: It should be repeated in every single time we do an episode about Carmelo Anthony.
00:13:20
Speaker 4: Yes, Rope, so all those questions.
00:13:21
Speaker 1: I have no idea what this jury looks like, what they're bringing into that room. But you have to think you cannot have twelve people with the same experience who can all get in thene and go yep, first degree murder. I just I have a hard time believing that, Robes. And if people are willing to believe that this is a kid that made an awful mistake who does need to be held accountable for it, But is he the worst of our society who went to attract meet intending to murder another high school kid. That's just that's a hard no for me.
00:13:57
Speaker 2: Yes, same for me.
00:13:58
Speaker 3: When we come back, we're gonna tell you what the defense had to say to jurors in their closing arguments before they took the case.
00:14:07
Speaker 2: And welcome back.
00:14:16
Speaker 3: To everyone to this episode of Amy and TJ. We are talking about the trial that everyone is waiting for word from the jury. Now they have the case, they are deliberating, and this has been quick. They are already trying to determine the fate of Carmelo Anthony. He is now nineteen years old, but seventeen years old at the time of this killing. And I hesitated saying murder because now he is possibly going to be convicted of either murder manslaughter or he'll be found not guilty.
00:14:48
Speaker 2: But that's for the jury to decide right now.
00:14:49
Speaker 3: But before they went into deliberations, they heard from the defense who pointed out a lot of what the defense was arguing was Carmelo's state of mind. And we did hear them establish that in their witness testimony, that he was normal that day. He was not in a bad mood. He wasn't angry, he wasn't in a violent mood. He was just Carmelo getting ready to go to a track meet, who was complaining about the weather.
00:15:16
Speaker 1: And Rhodes a lot. I think it does talk about mindset. I mean, the prosecutor talked about you need to remember his mindset, trying to suggest that he was intending to hurt someone, but mindset robes. Uh. He didn't run out of the stadium. He told someone what he did, and by all accounts, this kid was messed up about what.
00:15:42
Speaker 2: He was doing.
00:15:43
Speaker 4: And even asked how the kid was.
00:15:45
Speaker 2: He isn't dead, is he?
00:15:47
Speaker 4: Robes God, this is dead to me.
00:15:49
Speaker 3: To me hearing that testimony about his reaction, even one of the coaches who the defense called to the stand discussed how he didn't run, how he was just straw, how he was emotional, how he was crying, how he was.
00:16:03
Speaker 2: Like, no way is he dead. I mean, look, he stabbed him one time.
00:16:06
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, he just stabbed him in the exact I say, perfect place that caused his death.
00:16:13
Speaker 2: He bled out, he hit that main artery.
00:16:15
Speaker 4: How many robes?
00:16:16
Speaker 1: How many you and I've covered so many stories in our careers in which we hear that like, yes, one strike in the right place, or if that bullet had only been a couple of millimeters the other way, Like we.
00:16:29
Speaker 4: Hear that stuff all the time.
00:16:30
Speaker 3: Robes, he just a pocket knife, stab a jab, even if.
00:16:36
Speaker 1: He'd have missed and hit the arm, if anything, Robes he hit him in a way.
00:16:41
Speaker 4: Had the kid just bled out and couldn't recover from this is just this is one of the worst robes because this well.
00:16:48
Speaker 1: I've seen this scenario so many times to kids going at it in high school. Who's the toughest, who's the biggest, who's the baddest. I gotta protect my rep this kind of foolishness, these threats, bet you won't touch me, put your hands on me, that kind of stuff. Man, and two families got and the twin you know what with the twin brother.
00:17:07
Speaker 3: Even, yeah, twin brother, and he died in his arms.
00:17:13
Speaker 4: That's your lifetime.
00:17:14
Speaker 2: You'll never forget that, oh my goodness.
00:17:16
Speaker 3: And so we heard from the defense, obviously talking about a state of mind, but also clearly trying to get obviously the not guilty verdict.
00:17:23
Speaker 2: That's what they want.
00:17:24
Speaker 3: And they talked about how they Austin had no legal right to put his hands on Carmelo Colamello.
00:17:32
Speaker 2: But that didn't work for me either.
00:17:34
Speaker 3: I do think that in terms of self defense, this is what the attorney tried to He tried to land his plane with this.
00:17:42
Speaker 2: He said.
00:17:43
Speaker 3: The thing about self defense you cannot wait until it is too late. The thing about a split second of chaos, You don't know what's going to happen. He talked a lot about how just setting the scene that Carmelo Anthony was surrounded by people who were bigger than him. You've got two, you've got twin brothers who are there towering over him.
00:18:05
Speaker 2: Little old Carmelo Anthony felt afraid and was surrounded.
00:18:09
Speaker 3: So he's trying to create this scenario in which, yes, you could possibly put yourself in Carmelo Anthony's place and think he just got scared. He got scared and made a split second decision, and he was trying to defend himself. But look, it flies in the face of so much of the prosecution's testimony, where we heard he had countless, countless opportunities just to leave, to walk away.
00:18:33
Speaker 4: Yes he did.
00:18:34
Speaker 1: Everybody had a chance to do something different. Everybody did, but Carmelo made the decision. Ultimately, that's really just torn apart. Two families, two things from the prosecutor in the closing, and I forgot about this, but you just reminded me of it. The two lines there robes in which we're talking about Carmelo Anthony being scared, for him being fearful, whatever it may be. Probs, you can't quote again quote here from the prosecution. You can't meet force with deadly force, like this idea that I was scared, I was threatened, somebody put their hands on me. That's not enough to justify pulling out a knife and stapping.
00:19:12
Speaker 2: There was no weapon brandished with him.
00:19:16
Speaker 3: So, yes, he was dealing with, Yes, someone who is larger than him, but it was somebody who was unarmed.
00:19:23
Speaker 1: The other one, you can't provoke yourself into using deadly force. You can't provoke me into coming after you and then kill me, he said. You can't provoke yourself into using deadly force. That land, and I thought about the knucklehead in Tennessee, the racist thing chat the.
00:19:47
Speaker 3: Building Chad, the buildings, yes to where he tries to provoke.
00:19:52
Speaker 1: Provoke somebody into shooting him or attacking him as well, and then he shoots the person. Right, This is a bizarrely similar scenario. You're provoking me. I reacted, and now you think you're justified in pulling a jigger and he shot a guy Robes. This is what we're talking about. That makes sense.
00:20:14
Speaker 3: You have to take responsibility for your actions that heightened the situation, that took it to the next level. And that's certainly it seems like by all accounts what Carmelo Anthony did. The big question is did he intend to kill Austin Metcalf. That is what the jury has to decide.
00:20:32
Speaker 1: They're deciding, and if they don't decide, by this evening robes they can get comfortable.
00:20:37
Speaker 3: Because they're spending the night at the motel near the courthouse. I guess they have bags with them. They were told they are going to be sequestered. Certainly an incentive for most juries to come to a decision, but this, yes, has to be a unanimous decision. They got the case just before eleven am local time, so that's around noon Eastern time. So look, it's possible with the speediness of this trial, how as quickly as it's gone, we may have a verdict by the end.
00:21:06
Speaker 2: Of the day today.
00:21:07
Speaker 3: So we will obviously be keeping our eye on this situation.
00:21:10
Speaker 4: Ropes.
00:21:11
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have been surprised if one game across while we were sitting here talking. This thing has been moving and we have seen so many times there's usually a holiday weekend or something like that. But when juries know a long weekend, if something's coming up, you got to.
00:21:24
Speaker 3: Spend the night in a hotel or a hotel, Yeah, you are going to be incentivized to come to an agreement among your jurors.
00:21:33
Speaker 2: So we will keep our eye.
00:21:34
Speaker 3: This again, could come at any point today on this case. But we always appreciate you listening to us I made Robach alongside TJ Holmes.
00:21:42
Speaker 2: We'll talk to you soon.