“Michael” Reviews Are Brutal, Fans Are Thrilled: Can We Celebrate The King Of Pop?

00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hey, they folks. It is Friday, April twenty fourth, and it's finally here, Michael. The movie is now out. But even before it came out, the reviews started coming in and they are awful. If you listen to the critics, listen to the fans, they love it. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Roholds. Let's start with the top. When you see a big disparity on Rotten Tomatoes, this huge, it tells you what.

00:00:32
Speaker 2: Well, it usually tells me. I usually go with the audience. So the audience gave it a ninety six percent to hit on Rotten Tamaris Hit. The critics gave it forty percent. And that's being kind because when you actually read some of the reviews, especially those in notable publications, they're not just awful.

00:00:51
Speaker 3: I would actually use the word brutal.

00:00:53
Speaker 1: Okay are they? And we're going to get into that because some of this and now you know what I'll ask you. You read through more reviews than I did. But one of the questions I want to ask ask how much of it sounds personal? Because some people are questioning that some people are just after this guy. We'll get into that but Robes, you said forty percent when it first came out, it was lower than that.

00:01:11
Speaker 2: It was I think in the thirties. Oh really twenty seven Okay, I didn't even see that. So, yes, obviously there are some I think a lot of folks. Here's the problem. The critics. They appreciate, especially the performance from Michael Jackson's nephew, Jafar Jackson, Jermaine's son. Everyone I think has said that his performance is nothing short of brilliant. But they say, basically, this is just a glorified greatest Hits of Michael Jackson's video music documentary. It has nothing to actually do with storytelling or giving the full arc or impression even of his early days leading up to Because here's the deal. It stops at nineteen eighty eight, notably before Michael Jackson was ever accused of doing anything untoward with a minor Robes.

00:02:02
Speaker 1: Don't many many Michael Jackson fans stop at nineteen eighty eight when it comes to him. We do just want to remember Billy Jean. We just want to dance and sing to some of the greatest music that has ever been produced. Robes, isn't that I'm talking to you about? It here for a second. Isn't that kind of one of these things when you do with artists, separating the art from the artist when the artist has been accused of doing something bad robes This movie sounds like exactly what a fan of Michael Jackson's would want. Show me the music, show me the moves, show me the moments, but don't remind me of the other stuff.

00:02:42
Speaker 2: Well, yes, and I think that's why it got a ninety six percent on Rotten Tomatoes from fans who appreciate his music. And look, if I haven't said it before, I grew up and you know this about me as a like an uber Michael Jackson fan. The only album I still have from my childhood is that Thriller album with him in the White Suit. I used to listen to his music at nauseum. I loved Michael Jackson, like with I just I idolized him. I truly did. I think he was probably one of my first crushes ever.

00:03:10
Speaker 1: Okay, how many people in the millions have that attitude, have that mindset, have that feeling, have that nostalgia. I am included in that group, right, A lot of us, men, women, boys, girl, we all have that that's what we remember, that's what we want to remember. Is it okay to put out a movie that just lets you go down memory lane?

00:03:33
Speaker 2: I don't know, is my answer, because I think, Look, I struggle with it.

00:03:37
Speaker 3: I think so many people struggle with it.

00:03:38
Speaker 2: Anytime, you know, pretty Young Thing comes on or whatever song that takes me right back to where I was when it was a hit. It's a part of our own histories. It's not Yes, we love Michael Jackson's music, his dance moves, his music videos, all of that. But more importantly, it connects us to a part of our lives that is nostalgic. And I think that's why we struggle with it, because we remember such fond memories, and there's joy and happiness and just such great memories attached to his songs and his music. It's hard to reconcile that with what we now know about this man who was extremely complicated and never convicted.

00:04:14
Speaker 1: Never convicted, Well that always needs to be said.

00:04:17
Speaker 3: That's correct.

00:04:17
Speaker 1: He was never It was an acquittal, was it not?

00:04:20
Speaker 3: It was an acquittal.

00:04:21
Speaker 1: The man was never convicted. He was accused, So rose, why does he get different treatment than the protests for r? Kelly, like, how dare you listen to his music? Like they were talking about getting it off Spotify.

00:04:34
Speaker 3: R Kelly was convicted.

00:04:35
Speaker 1: He was convicted, But Rose, is that really the distinction we want to make?

00:04:40
Speaker 3: I think a lot of people do.

00:04:41
Speaker 2: I think that's how people maybe even justify their love and like of Michael Jackson's music because he was never convicted.

00:04:48
Speaker 1: You think that's fair to tell yourself that he wasn't convicted.

00:04:51
Speaker 3: Oll, I can't tell myself that. No.

00:04:53
Speaker 2: I mean, you just hear enough accusers come forward bravely and tell their story. It's hard to and then, knowing what we know about him, fully admit that he loved to sleep in bed with children, that it's the greatest form of love to share a bed with someone.

00:05:05
Speaker 3: So yes, by his own statements.

00:05:07
Speaker 2: Even certainly there are huge question marks underlined and boldfaced and.

00:05:12
Speaker 3: All of that.

00:05:13
Speaker 2: Yes, But look, I think some of the criticism just is that this isn't a movie, it's a music video. Let me read some of these headlines just to give you an idea if you all haven't looked at them already. Vulture Michael isn't a movie, It's a wax museum. The Independent a ghoulish, soulless cash grab, ghoulish soulless Wow. Okay, BBC a bland, barely competent daytime TV movie. Oh come, Roger Ebert Michael Jackson biopic is bad?

00:05:44
Speaker 3: Is bad? You know it?

00:05:47
Speaker 1: Okay?

00:05:48
Speaker 3: Those are some tough ones. Oh, I mean, I can keep going.

00:05:51
Speaker 2: They are a plenty, But these are all just Michael Jackson is an eccentric saint yuck. Michael is a not so regal biopic of the king of pop. Who's bad everyone involved with Michael? Jesus, Yeah, it's it's terrible. I have not like most of these headlines are all again, not just awful but brutal.

00:06:15
Speaker 1: Again gropes you have and I'm asking you and putting you on the spot because you have read through more of them than I have. But does it seem that the issue they're taking is the editorial, not in what was presented visually or even performance wise. But it's more so a matter of how dare you come up and give us this thing talking about a biopic? Right, you're gonna call it that, and only going to go up to nineteen eighty eight, not really get into the complexities of his childhood and not address any of the stuff that happened later.

00:06:45
Speaker 3: Is that correct?

00:06:46
Speaker 1: The only problem they have it?

00:06:47
Speaker 2: Yes, I think so. And look the New York Times actually put this. I actually took out a chunk of their review because I thought this was so interesting and summed up where a lot of people are coming from the movie itself becomes a tar bill of triumph and glory for someone everyone admired, rather than an estate's attempt to scrub clean the life story of a star who has been multiply accused in harrowing terms of child sexual abuse. The same estate is the reason that an HBO documentary that give space for two men who have accused Jackson to tell their story has been deleted from its streaming platform. You can't watch it because it might as well not exist. A lot of people are pointing to that Finding Neverland, that HBO documentary that had these two accusers, and this was riveting, and a lot of folks watched this and thought differently of Jackson afterwards.

00:07:37
Speaker 3: It's now gone.

00:07:37
Speaker 2: You can't even get it because they struck a deal basically, the Jackson family and the Jackson estate, which is behind this picture. And we'll get into all of that, basically found a clip that they used in this documentary that HBO years back had signed an NDA not to say anything disparaging about Michael Jackson. In use of this clip, they had it in the documentary and so because of that they had to take the full documentary down.

00:08:04
Speaker 3: This happened in.

00:08:05
Speaker 2: Twenty twenty four basically in anticipation of this movie coming out, and.

00:08:09
Speaker 1: Again we did. If we haven't made this clear enough, this wasn't some unauthorized film. This was done with the okay of everybody in that family pretty much.

00:08:19
Speaker 3: Well, with the exception of Janet Jackson and Paris Jackson.

00:08:22
Speaker 1: But again, the estate is still the one in control and behind this.

00:08:27
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, they're walking the red carpets, and Jermaine, Tito, Jackie, LaToya, Marlin and Prince are all executive producers on this movie.

00:08:34
Speaker 1: So you know, it's his family putting out his story. So of course, why should we be surprised that they are telling this the.

00:08:41
Speaker 2: Way they want to tell about So I think the critics are annoyed that they're saying, basically, this is a pr machine behind this movie that wants us all to forget about the ugly parts and try to rewrite history by showing how wonderful They kind of described this as a fairy tale with a happy ending, when we all know that's not what it is.

00:09:00
Speaker 1: Is it not okay to just celebrate some portion of his life?

00:09:04
Speaker 3: And the audience is speaking that last say not okay.

00:09:07
Speaker 1: I don't know what is going to a bigger conversation of what do you cut out? Like We're not talking about somebody who went on I don't know, who fell on some hard times, who had a drug addiction. We're not talking about that. We're talking about some serious allegations of the ugliest stuff possible. Can we just is it okay to go celebrate and sing and dance and just I'm going to focus on this chunk of his life and forget the other stuff? Is that? Can we do that?

00:09:32
Speaker 2: I think that that is the hope and that is what we are seeing play out in the box office. Will know for sure at the end of this weekend. But the previews have been astoundingly have gone astoundingly well.

00:09:41
Speaker 1: But is there a suggestion that this is a move to reshape his legacy?

00:09:48
Speaker 3: That is the suggestion.

00:09:49
Speaker 2: But the people behind the movie, you know, are wildly accredited, and it wasn't their intention, I believe, and they've spoken out about this to do that, and in fact, the whole reason why in this film they haven't included any of the allegations.

00:10:07
Speaker 3: They did have a plan.

00:10:08
Speaker 2: In fact, a huge part of the movie had already been shot and produced and it was about a specific allegation. Once the whole movie was literally done, and they delayed this movie released by a year because the Jackson family the estate said, whoopsie, we just realized that we settled with this particular victim or alleged victim, and as a part of that deal, we can't retell or have that story explained in any way. So they had to literally scrub this entire chunk of the movie that they had originally planned to include that did allow for or at least go into some of They were supposed to open the whole film with Neverland Ranch being rated. That was the initial plan, and they had to scrap that whole idea. And now, of course, dot dot dot they're saying this could all be addressed in a potential sequel.

00:10:58
Speaker 1: Now that part felt a little I didn't like how that.

00:11:00
Speaker 2: Felt okay, And this just was added reportedly within the last month. But at the end of the movie, if you all go and see it, it ends with in glittery gold letters, his story continues, which absolutely is lending itself for a part two where perhaps the movie, and especially if it does well, the producers the folks can save a little editorial face by including some of that in a part two.

00:11:29
Speaker 1: You said, if it does well, it's going to do well.

00:11:32
Speaker 3: It's going to do very well.

00:11:33
Speaker 2: But then the argument could be made that it's going to do very well because it's uplifting, because it doesn't get into some of the more serious and dark parts of Michael Jackson's story.

00:11:47
Speaker 1: I just we haven't seen do I have riot robes? From all indications I've seen, we haven't seen the movie yet, Like, they don't hint at any trouple. If you didn't know anything about Michael Jackson just watched this movie, you would have no idea that he had trouble later.

00:12:02
Speaker 2: It's a fairy tale with a happy ending. That is what the critics say. So when we come back, we are going to tell you what the audience has said so far and what the preliminary numbers are showing. This movie is going to do. Welcome back everyone to this episode of Amy and TJ. I almost screwed up your name. Sorry, Amy and TJ. I know, I don't know how I did that, but it's Friday, the end of the week.

00:12:33
Speaker 1: I'm glad you don't call me by my full first name.

00:12:35
Speaker 2: That would be Toughslutillius. That flows actually kind of nicely, But I don't know. You've just always been TJ to me.

00:12:43
Speaker 1: TJ is much easier to say, well.

00:12:45
Speaker 3: I'll stick with that.

00:12:46
Speaker 2: Then, So a lot of you might be thinking about maybe you've already seen it, going to see the movie Michael.

00:12:52
Speaker 3: And I guess we should probably say.

00:12:55
Speaker 2: Just don't read the reviews. If you love Michael Jackson, you will love this movie. And look, people are going to see it in droves. The preview numbers are already looking remarkable right now. They're saying between twelve and a half and thirteen and a half million, that's what they believe that Michael did just in its preview day on Thursday, and that would easily make it the best ever for a musical bio pick.

00:13:21
Speaker 3: And if you want to just have a comparison, those preview numbers exceed.

00:13:24
Speaker 2: Project Hell Mary's preview numbers, they got twelve million, and it went on to make eighty million for its opening weekend. So if there's any indication that it's following in the same way like this is going to do Gangbusters, these were the best preview numbers for a lions Gate film since twenty fifteen's The Hunger Games Mocking j Part two.

00:13:43
Speaker 1: Just to give you perspective, it's going to be a history making movie. It is. It's going to might end up being the biggest ever. We shall see. But that number to think they could, I mean they were talking what were the estimates.

00:13:55
Speaker 2: I think initially fifty to sixty Now they're saying seventy five to eighty.

00:13:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we'll see what ends up happening.

00:14:00
Speaker 2: This was one of the most expensive music biopicks of all times, cost one hundred and fifty five million dollars to make, and part of that was some of the reshooting. And I believe that the Jackson Foundation of the Jackson family ended up having to put part of that bill because it was their mistake.

00:14:16
Speaker 1: I saw. Ten to fifteen million was the number I saw. To add to your budget when you're done, that is enormous.

00:14:21
Speaker 2: That's tremendous look and look, the people behind this movie know what they are doing. The director Antoine Fuquah Training Day. You might have heard of that film, that Oscar winning film.

00:14:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, brother can make a movie hit, fuqua is. It was in good hands with him.

00:14:38
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and he specifically said he wanted to start it off with that rating Neverland, so he had every intent in creating a more fully formed biopick, at least in the part one.

00:14:50
Speaker 3: The producer Graham King.

00:14:52
Speaker 2: You might have heard of The Departed or Bohemian Rhapsody, which is what this film has been compared to in a lot of ways.

00:14:58
Speaker 3: But I think it's pretty cool to know that you're.

00:15:00
Speaker 2: Gonna watch Michael Jackson's nephew, Jermaine Jackson's son, Jaffar Jackson, to just completely embody his uncle in every way. People have just been raving. I want to see it, frankly, just to see his performance.

00:15:15
Speaker 1: The look is me on nobody. You couldn't get somebody that looks more like Michael Jackson. He has. He nails the soft spoken in all this. But you know, this kid has probably been emulating his uncle from birth. He has been practicing for this role since he was born. He was born into the Jackson five family. Roks. They say, yes, the acting is one thing, they say his dancing, his move is justice.

00:15:39
Speaker 3: It's in his blood. It's in his blood. Wait to see Yes and Coleman to.

00:15:43
Speaker 2: Me and plays Joe Jackson and he of course two time Oscar nominee. So people have been raving about his performances as well. But look, the people who have gone to see it have just said brilliant, amazing, incredible. They left with smiles on their faces and wanting to dance. And so, look, this is an uplifting film. And that's where part of the problem is because his story, if you think about it in its entirety, is certainly not an uplifting story.

00:16:10
Speaker 3: To just put it mildly, that's I mean, I don't know.

00:16:14
Speaker 1: Rose is another one of those what do you do with that music? Is it wrong to just want to listen to Billy Jean and go on about you today? Is it wrong?

00:16:22
Speaker 2: No?

00:16:22
Speaker 1: I guess there's nothing wrong with that. Rowlands with the family has a different view of him, and they have always said publicly that no, he didn't do anything wrong, No he's not some criminal, No he didn't molest anybody. They said that if that is that's what's in their heart, that's their feeling and their belief about him. They don't think anybody should be out there having a question of whether or not they can listen to Michael Jackson or not. Of course you can't because they think he didn't do anything wrong.

00:16:46
Speaker 2: So it is interesting to hear Paris Jackson. This is of course his only daughter. And by the way, his two sons, Prince and his name is now Beiji.

00:16:56
Speaker 3: It was formerly Blankets. Yes, but Prince and BIGI. We are walking the red carpet.

00:17:01
Speaker 2: Prince is a part of the producing team, that's part of the Jackson family for this movie. But Paris Jackson, on an Instagram video, posted this. She said her notes because she was being consulted, as were other members of the family while this film was in production. Her notes on what she considered dishonest about an early script were rejected, and she said a big section of the film panders to a very specific section of my dad's fandom that still lives in the fantasy. That is what she said about the film. It's hard not to listen to his daughter, though I know, I know, and so that to me, really spoke volumes in terms of Janet Jackson. So basically all of the siblings were asked initially, those even who weren't producers, to give permission to be depicted, and Janet Jackson refused to give permission to be depicted.

00:17:54
Speaker 3: So she's literally not there.

00:17:56
Speaker 2: Like they have early scenes with the family and Janet Jackson just isn't there. She isn't being portrayed or played by anyone. She just disappears from the narrative and we don't know why.

00:18:08
Speaker 1: That kind of says a lot to me too.

00:18:09
Speaker 3: That's Janet, Janet and Paris is there.

00:18:13
Speaker 1: I mean, as far as that family goes, is there anyone in that family more? I guess respected who after Michael? Are you the biggest fan.

00:18:21
Speaker 3: Of Janet question? Janet Jackson?

00:18:23
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I think her name carries a lot of credibility and when it comes to the family and why she chose not to do this, But Gros, I don't know. Are we going to go see it?

00:18:32
Speaker 3: I would like to go see it.

00:18:33
Speaker 2: Yes, And look, I will say every time I have sat in the theater and that Michael trailer comes out, I am like wildly excited.

00:18:43
Speaker 3: I want to go see it. I am all about it.

00:18:45
Speaker 2: Just look, we have seen I've seen it twice MJ on Broadway, and they do they do acknowledge it. I scratch the service, It's a good way to put it. They scratch the surface of some of the allegations and some of the abuse at the hands of Joe Jackson.

00:18:58
Speaker 3: They get into that a little.

00:19:00
Speaker 2: It so there's a nod to it, but obviously they don't go into it. And I have to say, I loved that musical.

00:19:08
Speaker 3: I loved that music.

00:19:09
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and that kid he wanted Tony and rightfully so he was remarkable.

00:19:15
Speaker 3: But I just I do want.

00:19:17
Speaker 2: To see it, and and I don't know how I'll feel about it.

00:19:20
Speaker 3: I'm not sure how I will feel about it.

00:19:23
Speaker 1: Every single scene we've seen in the previews, we remember, oh yeah, that's when he was outside the hotel blank. Oh, that's when he did the performance of the Grammys.

00:19:30
Speaker 3: Always that's when he dangled his baby. Oh no, that won't be on it.

00:19:33
Speaker 1: That's not in there as well. Did you not listen to anything? We just thought it. It's just nostal everything we see in there, like, oh yeah, I remember when that happened. Oh I remember that outfit. Oh, I remember that jacket, Oh I remember that move. We remember it all. So if you go into the theater with that expectation, I'm going to go in here and sing and dance along, and I'm gonna I'm curious to see his nephew, but I actually want to see that.

00:19:57
Speaker 3: I do too.

00:19:58
Speaker 2: And look, I do think that they can, like if they do make this part two, then I do think that there is a way I had to say, save face, but to have a fuller picture of because I do think, like I think, I just it's dawned on me when you were saying I remember when, I remember when. I remember where I was when he died. I was on a plane and I was gutted. And I remember where I was when he was being hauled into court and was being chased by that mob of media in La Like, I remember all of those moments in those events and the music that was around it. So I do think that maybe there is another version of this that will tell the full story that is important to tell too.

00:20:36
Speaker 1: That's gonna be a tough one.

00:20:37
Speaker 2: We got this from the producer at the premiere. He said this, we're definitely kicking around some ideas. We'll see what happens very soon, but right now I have so much anxiety about people seeing this one.

00:20:49
Speaker 3: And that's fair.

00:20:50
Speaker 2: Let's talk, yes, let's talk about this one. Let's watch this one before we talk about the next one. But this is a tough subject matter, but it there's so many feelings around Michael Jackson and his music and what it meant to the world.

00:21:04
Speaker 3: And what it still means to a lot of us.

00:21:05
Speaker 1: That's cool. It meant that much to all of us that this movie now matters to all of us. What a legacy of music, at least the rest of it. Everybody can be their own judge. But I guess we'll be going to the theater soon enough. But folks just want to hop on. Let you know what was going on here. This is one we've been seeing bubbling, we've been wanting to get on and talk about. But certainly this was a good time. So we appreciate you spending time with us. On TJ. Holmes on behalf of my dear Amy roboc Talks, so