April 25, 2026
Michael Jackson “Worse Than Epstein” As His “Second Family” Comes Forward With Awful Accusations
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RSS Feed The very family that spent decades defending Michael Jackson, is now saying all five siblings were sexually abused by Jackson when they were 7 or 8 years old and continued into their early teen years. The New York Times sat down with the Cascio siblings and detail their accusations that began after they watched the “Finding Neverland” documentary in 2019. The Jackson estate is calling this a money grab and question the credibility and the timing of the family’s $200 million lawsuit, just as “Michael” is breaking records at the box office this weekend.
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00:00:03
Speaker 1: It is Saturday, April twenty fifth, and everybody seems to be talking about Michael, including the four kids who say he sexually abused.
00:00:15
Speaker 2: Them when they were children and have now filed a lawsuit against him. Yeah, they're talking not just in court but also to the New York Times. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. I do not know what in God's name we're supposed to do with this Robes. He is one of the most impactful artists and has meant so much to us and his music has but Robes, there are some now new serious allegations being talked about at the same time that everybody's talking about and almost celebrating his music with the movie Robes. What are we supposed to do with Michael Jackson?
00:00:58
Speaker 3: This is tough and to hear year these four siblings come forward after defending him for decades and say that they too were I mean, they get specific, they get detailed. It is graphic, but abused, sexually abused by Michael Jackson for years and years and years. And to hear their accounts and they jibe very much with what we've heard from other.
00:01:27
Speaker 4: Now adults who've come forward.
00:01:29
Speaker 3: They all have a very similar pattern, and that was part of the reason why these four step.
00:01:34
Speaker 2: Forward and robes. In fairness, these are allegations that have been made for several years, but we as the public are just now hearing about it for a number of legal reasons, including a lawsuit and robes. The lawsuit was filed a month ago, but they just talked to the New York Times and that article was posted on the same weekend that the movie Michael coming out.
00:02:00
Speaker 3: And that is deliberate, of course, because look, the point being is, we all want to celebrate his music.
00:02:06
Speaker 4: We all want to remember.
00:02:07
Speaker 3: Where we were when Billy Jean and Bad and Thriller were all happening, and to see it all be produced in a beautiful, artistic, just phenomenal, joyful way by a descendant of Michael Jackson, his own nephew playing him. We want to celebrate it. We want to dance, we want to sing, We want to remember how we felt and where we were at that time, and we don't want to think about all of the accusations because at this point they're just accusations and we have to recall and I think maybe we justify enjoying his music because we can say he was never convicted.
00:02:45
Speaker 2: Damn, Robes, you said, they're just accusations, right, just accusations. Apply that to every single one of the Epstein victims, and you would look at me saying they're just accusations. You would say, shut up, you idiot. Are you out of your mind? That has been documented and we have to believe these survivors, is what you would tell me about if I use that phrase when we use it here, and I think a lot of people are Robes, why are they using it because he meant that We want to believe that he was not this thing.
00:03:18
Speaker 3: We want to believe he was an innocent, almost god like, a sexual being who was just phenomenally talented, obviously mentally had some issues and was abused as a child.
00:03:32
Speaker 4: We want to feel sorry for him.
00:03:33
Speaker 3: We want to lift him up, yep, we want to enjoy his unbelievable talent, and we don't want to think that he could have been a monster.
00:03:42
Speaker 2: Okay, if we don't want to think that, Robes, does this mean we are looking at all of these people with stories and the people that we would normally call victims of survivors, we are looking at them and saying you're full of shit.
00:03:55
Speaker 3: Or you're screwing up something that I loved. You're messing with something that I want to appreciate. You're forcing me to have to give up enjoyment of something I love to believe you And.
00:04:06
Speaker 2: Does that just go to the impact of his music Robes? I think it does we all collectively in denial.
00:04:13
Speaker 4: Yes, I think the answer is yes. I'll be honest. I have not wanted to think about it. I have not wanted to and this is look.
00:04:20
Speaker 3: And I do appreciate the comparison to Jeffrey Epstein because we all feel very passionately the opposite way about Jeffrey Epstein and about these young girls and young women who he tortured and frankly ruined many of their lives.
00:04:35
Speaker 4: But it's interesting to.
00:04:37
Speaker 3: Hear from the man who made the HBO documentary Leaving Neverland Neverland. He also did interviews leading up to this movie this release, and he said that he is watching Hollywood cash in on a man that he calls worse than Jeffrey Epstein, and he talks about why nobody seems to.
00:04:57
Speaker 2: Mind, nobody cares, nobody cares, and Michael Jackson will never be canceled. Michael Jackson MJ has a hit Broadway show, Robes hit, and you know what, they just touched on the allegations a little bit. We were at that show, danced our asses off. I walked out happy as hell.
00:05:14
Speaker 3: I went twice enjoying ourselves, having a good time, told other people to see it.
00:05:18
Speaker 2: Michael is coming out this weekend, Robes. This is going to be the biggest music biopick ever. It's already it's They were predicting this thing was gonna make forty to fifty in its first weekend. That's almost doubled. Now people have been talking about this so much and so excited they are running out to see it. So, yes, Robes, a lot of people are making money still off this guy. And you put Billy Gene on, I dare you to put it on in any room and people don't stop dancing, starts at saying, so Robes are we just do we need to all say out loud, we don't give a damn what he did or what he's accused of. We're gonna keep doing this or do we need to take the same position we scream and yell we need to take with the Epstein victims and any other victims robes, which is they have to be believed. And the reason they're not believed is why fear of what these powerful men, these famous men, these rich men, Robes. What are we supposed to do? Are you telling me? I like pretty young things so much that I'm gonna tell all you survivors y'all are lying? Is that what we're doing?
00:06:26
Speaker 3: I think people just avoid it, avoid it, ignore it. They don't they because deep down, I mean, you and I had this conversation.
00:06:32
Speaker 4: You asked me.
00:06:32
Speaker 3: You said, do you think that all these kids are lying? And the answer is no, I don't. Okay, I don't think they're all lying.
00:06:39
Speaker 2: If that's the case, Robes, then we're in a position to where we have someone who is the possibly most influential musician we have ever ever known, who has impacted all of our lives since birth almost to this point. Absolutely, we're just going to ignore it all and just keep on dancing, Robes. The stuff we're talking about is not even I think the worst crimes out there are murder and child molestation. And I would actually raise child molestation up a little.
00:07:12
Speaker 4: Higher, and I think most people in the world would agree with you.
00:07:14
Speaker 2: Okay, So that guy we're talking about, we are willing to just keep dancing and say he wasn't convicted. This conversation is happening now. And yes, the movie is out. It's going to do Gangbusters. We talked about it. We've done previous episode on the movie Robes and how people, the critics don't like it because it just goes up to nineteen eighty eight, just celebrates his music and ignores what is still a part of his legacy. Well, Robes. Now this family in particular, we need to talk about a family Robes that, according to the article at least that was released by the New York Times yesterday, a family in New Jersey that spent a lot of time with him, five kids. They have filed a lawsuit. It was a month ago, but now it's getting more attention because they did this interview and Robes the stuff they describe. Wait, but first we need to explain who they are. They were close to him and have literally been defending him for decades.
00:08:06
Speaker 3: Yes, and they were called his second family. That was basically the Moniker that this family absolutely loved, talked about so did Michael Jackson. He spent many nights in their home. They spent many nights in his home. They traveled with him, yes in yes, was.
00:08:22
Speaker 4: It Hawthorne, New Jersey. I saw somewhere just outside of New York City.
00:08:25
Speaker 3: It's in suburban New York City area, just outside of the city itself.
00:08:29
Speaker 2: And the reason they knew him, they claim, is that the dad managed a hotel, a luxury hotel in New York where Michael Jackson would stay. That's how they met and they became so close robes. They talked about him like a frequent visitor. He was part of the family at their house in New Jersey. The idea of the King of Pop who was hanging out with some random family New Jersey sounds.
00:08:51
Speaker 3: Crazy, yep, because I think, look, and then that's where you want to like, you want to have your heart go out to him. And he was looking for a family. He was looking for, you know, so safety, he was looking for love. And then you want to just make it be that instead of him looking to abuse and violate and betray that family's trust by sexually molesting their children. And that's where we don't want to go there in our head, but that is what is detailed by these siblings and four of the.
00:09:21
Speaker 4: Siblings are in the lawsuit, but there is a fifth one too.
00:09:24
Speaker 2: And they say all five of the kids were abused, but for legal reasons, some really some legal technicalities, the fifth kid could not be included in this lawsuit. But yes, all five say of their abuse, but four are a part of this lawsuit. Again, it came out a month ago, but it's starting to get more and more attention. They're called the Cassios, the name of the family, but they had five kids at the time. The victims here are all in their thirties and forties, but there are four people in particular, the siblings Aldo Dominic, Eddie and Marie, Nicole, one girl in there, and Rome. It was interesting to hear that a lot of this they went through their entire lives not sharing stories. They said individually they didn't know their siblings were being abused because they never shared these stories.
00:10:07
Speaker 3: Yes, the way they described it, they said, Michael Jackson would tell them that they were the only one and that they were special, and so each of them felt like they in a weird way. As a kid, you probably liked the extra attention from the King of pop right, Yeah, so you're being told you're my only one, like you're the one I love, You're the one I adore, and you're being told that that love comes in the form of sexual gratification, and you're too young to know. You might feel icky and feel wrong. But according to them, he was showing them child porn. He was showing them naked photos of children. So he was normalizing sexualizing young kids.
00:10:41
Speaker 4: And when you're that age, you know, you just you.
00:10:45
Speaker 3: You idolize this man and you think, Okay, I'm being loved by him. So there's a part of you that does feel special, and it's why you don't tell anybody else.
00:10:53
Speaker 2: What was the word that keep? They showed it to lessen the end, Well, they used kept using a word he was so desensitized.
00:11:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, to desensitize them from sexualizing children.
00:11:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, ah, yeah yeah.
00:11:04
Speaker 4: And I hadn't even thought about that, Like, oh my god, that's horrible.
00:11:08
Speaker 2: We have to say and we should say. Now. The estate has for a long time and continues to deny that there was anything that Michael Jackson did that was inappropriate or molesting any kids. And they're saying this is a money grab by the family. We'll get into that statement. So why are we here, Robes. It's easy to just say, well, the timing here, the movie's coming out, so now they want to talk about it. So it sounds like some kind of a shakedown. But however, let's explain if we go back Robes. They start the story in a lot of ways with a twenty ten interview with Oprah Winfrey. So when a lot of allegations and after he died and a lot of people were talking about him Robes in two thousand and nine, this family in particular came out and defended Michael Jackson.
00:11:54
Speaker 3: Yes, and even the parents now are saying, we truly believed that he had never done anything to Archill. They were absolutely and they say completely in the dark to what they're now hearing from their now adult children. But yes, they vehemently said that he had never been inappropriate with them. They were defending him posthumously. Look, I didn't realize this.
00:12:15
Speaker 4: When he died.
00:12:16
Speaker 3: He was five hundred million dollars in debt something like that. He's now I guess this estate has brought in three billion dollars. When you think about the renewed interest in his music after he died, the MJ that's was a big part of it, the Broadway show and now this movie. But they just say the streaming, the downloads have just skyrocketed, like just enough space from the allegations and then his death and boom. So yes, they were a part of this kind of trying to scrub clean his.
00:12:46
Speaker 4: His record or his reputation after he died.
00:12:49
Speaker 2: So what happened? Why is that family that came out defending him, calling themselves his second family? Why does this family with parents and five kids come out and defend them? And how to we get here? Well, you have to go back to twenty nineteen Robes that documentary Finding Neverland, which you can't find anymore. It's been pool for legal reasons. You can't find it on HBO Max. But Robes that was all the talk at the time when it came out. Two accusers totally separate from these folks, came out and they told their stories on that documentary Finding Neverland, and that's what triggered this family and these kids. They say to go wait a minute, that sounds familiar.
00:13:30
Speaker 4: It's very eerie, and this is a similar story.
00:13:33
Speaker 3: When you think you're the only one and you're going to take it to your grave because you feel culpable. I mean, these kids felt responsible. They said Michael Jackson made them like even groomed them on how to defend him and protect him and be an army for him, so to speak. And at the same time they felt like they were keeping this special secret. But when they start hearing someone else detail almost exactly what happened to them, how what happened to them The names that were used for sex, like code words for sex were the same, code words for alcohol was the same, And all of a sudden, they thought, holy hell, he was doing this to other kids too.
00:14:10
Speaker 2: So this was finding Neverland Ropes in twenty nineteen. Now, it's my understanding, and from what I've read in all these accounts, including the New York Times article, after Finding Neverland came out, the estate reached out to them, the family, to try to work out money.
00:14:26
Speaker 3: Yes, and they did negotiate something I think I believe each of the siblings received over a five year period somewhere around two point something million dollars.
00:14:34
Speaker 2: The total end up sixteen million total in paying everybody but Ropes. This wasn't I thought it went the other way that after the Finding Neverland came out that the family reached out to the estate and say, oh, we got you now. No, it was the state that took proactive measures.
00:14:50
Speaker 3: Let's just go ahead and make sure everybody's comfortable and doesn't feel like speaking out, So.
00:14:54
Speaker 2: Why now would they want to start speaking or rogues. Those payments ended in twenty twenty five, and this is where we are now, and it's unclear because the family suggests that the estate actually reached out and wanted to up the ante and give them more compensation afterwards. No, no, no, no. The estate is claiming that, yes, the payments start to dry up, so of course you all want more money now, and they came back. So this is what lands us in where we are. But Robes the family saying yes that finding never Land calls them to start having conversations within their own family, and they started piecing together. Oh it happened to you too, Oh it happened. Oh that happened to me. So now here we are, Robes, how much does this before we get into the actual lawsuit, how much does this hurt credibility if it seems like it's a money grab. If you say, oh, you made one settlement, that money dried up, now you want more money, and this movie's coming out. Does that hurt credibility? Yes? It does?
00:15:54
Speaker 4: It does? It does?
00:15:55
Speaker 3: I think that in what it does is it gives folks who love Michael Jackson an hour. Wow, you know what, I don't know what happened. And the timing is suspicious. And oh when the money drives up, Now you're gonna hoot and holler, right when a movie comes out when you know a bunch of money has been made and there's going to be money to disseminate. Yeah, that's suspicious. And so you know what, I don't know what happened. I love his music. I'm going to see the movie. There's absolutely all right.
00:16:23
Speaker 2: So this gets us up to now and the movie that's out that's doing gangbusters already setting records and it's preview day on Thursday, setting records on Friday when it did come out. But it gets us to this point. Stay here. We'll explain exactly what is in this lawsuit. We'll explain also, and we will give a warning. Some of this stuff is very difficult to hear. But some of the stuff that's being detailed, Yes, in the lawsuit and also in the new article. We're definitely going to let you hear what the Jackson estate has said in response. And the other thing, why did the who directed the Finding never Land documentary, why is he the one saying Jackson is worse than Epstein's there? All right, continue here on Amy and TJ. Michael Jackson, j excuse me, it's called Michael. I was looking at all the titles of this movie. It's not Michael Jackson, not mj' it is Michael Michael, which I think is the perfect title. But it's doing great at the box office. But at the same time, a lawsuit has been filed against Michael Jackson and the estate alleging some pretty awful molestation and abuse that happened over years with his family they called themselves his second family rogues to go into this lawsuit. In some of the stuff they talked about this is I mean, this is stuff we've heard before. Drugs, alcohol, grooming.
00:17:51
Speaker 3: Yes, and child pornography so yes. The Casio siblings actually talked about his code words for wanting to have sex with them or wanting to have sexual acts with them.
00:18:02
Speaker 4: Can I have a meeting? He would talk about.
00:18:05
Speaker 3: Going to Disneyland. Disneyland was a code word for sex. Can we go to Disneyland? Can we go to Neverland? He also called, and we had heard this one before. A wine, Jesus juice and then anything that was hard liquored, Disney.
00:18:20
Speaker 2: Juice, Jesus crime, any robes And again these are all allegations. These are all allegations. But the allegations here Robes they said not just happened out on tour, happened at Neverland Ranch. They said it happened at their own home. Some of this abuse that took place in robes. I was it was interesting. I'm I'm not sure how these parents feel now. Ah, But they went out on tour with Michael Jackson and talked about at times they left their kids in Michael Jackson's care. Yes, well there he was overseas touring.
00:18:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, they left their children with him in another country while they went back to work or life or whatever. I cannot imagine how they feel now. So the lawsuit, we actually have an excerpt from the lawsuit. It says Michael Jackson was a serial child predator who, over the course of more than a decade, drugged, raped, and sexually assaulted each of the plaintiffs, beginning when some of them were as young as seven or eight. Jackson's attacks on these siblings went on for extended periods, including in locations around the world, and when Jackson and his children were guests in the plaintiff's family home. Jackson groomed and brainwashed each plaintiff without the knowledge of the others or their parents, throughout their childhood years.
00:19:41
Speaker 2: Again, these are all just allegations. When Robes had to remember, Michael Jackson's never been convicted of anything. He did face trial for sexual abuse. Section was conduct trial. He was acquitted. He did, however, settle for twenty three plus million dollars with an accuser losing it on the year here. But there was a settlement that he did make. Didn't no admission of anything, but he did have at least one settlement. So now you're talking about now this lawsuit five kids, you're talking about the documentary, two other kids. You're talking about the accusations from one kid that he settled with, talking about accusations in trial rogues. We've got a collection of like documented up to ten kids. Are we what are we supposed to do? Are we really supposed to say? Ah, he was never convicted, So all good. Jeffrey Epstein was only convicted of a few things down in Florida. Other folks he was never convicted of. So how can we be dismissive Rose because pyt is that good? And if the truth is yes, we could just say that Yeah.
00:20:46
Speaker 3: I mean, I think people like I said, not only love his music, but love where they were when they first heard this song. And it's just a nostalgic feeling of joy, and you just don't you want to be able to keep that intact, And in order to do so, you either have to say, well, he's never been convicted, and there are outs, there are off off ramps for folks mentally that they can take and compartmentalize and justify still loving his music and spending money that goes straight to the Jackson family estate.
00:21:16
Speaker 2: Well, a weird hypothetical. Let's say he had been convicted. Would you still be listening to Billy the same?
00:21:22
Speaker 4: I think it would be a huge, very different. Yes, I do. I do think that his music would not be played.
00:21:27
Speaker 2: It's given us an out.
00:21:28
Speaker 4: I do I think that he would have gone on.
00:21:32
Speaker 3: Look, he was more prolific than R Kelly, for sure, obviously, but R Kelly's music is not played on the radio like it's I mean, yes, he.
00:21:39
Speaker 2: Was convicted and he was, he's sitting in prison.
00:21:42
Speaker 3: Correct, won't get out right, and people still love I Believe I Can Fly and some of his other hits, and I get and you might be privately listening to that, but would you be blasting that. You might feel a little shame, or you might feel like, maybe this isn't you know, in the right place. I can't be playing this music. No one feels that about Michael Jackson. Thriller every High Halloween jumps up to the charts at Spotify right now, I believe he's number twenty six in an artists streamed and listened to currently like he is in the top of the charts, and he's surged back up. And of course now with this movie and certainly with the way musical his songs had a new life and money is pouring into the Jackson.
00:22:23
Speaker 2: Family for a guy that is described as worse as Epstein, worse than Epstein, rhaps I don't know who can get in any of our faces and say and make a defense of this stuff that doesn't include well, he wasn't convicted. It really does seem to boil down to that, well, he wasn't convicted. I was talking to my sister via textas morning, going back and forth about Michael Jackson, about all this stuff in this episode we're about to do. She ultimately responded with, allegedly, that was it. That was an argument. Is that our argument because we love this man and this music so much, My god, we love it so much, Ropes, he made a product that we love so much it'll make us overlook the most heinous of crime.
00:23:15
Speaker 4: Because it mingles.
00:23:16
Speaker 3: Because I think the reason why, yes, the music is that phenomenal and that good and that I mean, he was beyond TALENTEDO. But it mingles with our own personal nostalgic memories of those days.
00:23:29
Speaker 4: And we don't want to lose that.
00:23:30
Speaker 3: We don't want to upend that, we don't want to change how we feel when a song takes us back to one of our favorite spaces or places. And that's just a part of it. Dan Reid, you have a quote in here that you found. This is the man who is the director of Finding Neverland, and I think this sums it up. He said, So a lot of people, I think will kind of swallow any misgivings they may have and just sort of say, oh, well, it's a great jukebox movie and just completely ignore the fact that this guy was worse than Jeffrey Epstein.
00:24:00
Speaker 2: Is that wrong to say? Is it wrong for any of us to go, I don't want to roll with this guy because I believe blank blank blank blank blank is Can anyone look at us and say, how dare you say that about Michael Jackson? He was never convicted of anything.
00:24:15
Speaker 4: Oh, I do think there are people like that.
00:24:17
Speaker 2: Of course, is that legit? Am I really supposed to just not? We're giving ourselves the you said the off.
00:24:26
Speaker 4: Ramp, right, yes, because he was never convicted.
00:24:30
Speaker 2: He was never convicted, all right, So we'd have to have to hear the Jackson estate response. And it was a longer one, but this is probably the most relevant chunk. But they did put out a pre lengthy statement.
00:24:40
Speaker 3: They did they said this lawsuit is a desperate money grab by additional members of the Casillo family. The family staunchly defended Michael Jackson for more than twenty five years, attesting to his innocence of inappropriate conduct. This new court filing is a transparent forum shopping tactic in their scheme to obtain hundreds of millions of dollars from my state and companies. The Casios spent decades defending and affirming Michael's innocence. Notably, these shakedown attempts come more than fifteen years after Michael's death, thus carrying no risk of being sued for defamation. Sadly, in death, just as in life, Michael's talents and success continue to make him a target.
00:25:21
Speaker 2: I mean you could take that. I mean, I understand and I get that, and yes, there's money involved here and lawsuits have been filed, and yeah, you would question, Like you said, credibility is a part of it. But does that take away from all of this? I don't know what to do with this.
00:25:38
Speaker 4: It's hard, you know.
00:25:39
Speaker 3: Look, it's true, their stories have changed, their stories have shifted, they have done it about face.
00:25:43
Speaker 4: There are questions about their time.
00:25:45
Speaker 2: Okay, can I ask that you said there's stories have changed. Is the story just flipped right? The accounts they're giving, it's not different accounts of them, letstation, It's just that they were saying there was none and they completely didn't want Eddie.
00:25:59
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, you.
00:26:00
Speaker 3: Can make the argument if you're a staunch Michael Jackson defender and just think that he loved children platonically. You could say, oh, yeah, well they just saw the twenty nineteen documentary and thought we can just say the same damn thing and get a shit ton of money and never have to work again. So I get it people can say that, and I understand.
00:26:20
Speaker 2: We just want to take a moment here and include a couple of the allegations that they're saying. Robes and they had very specific incidents, most of them saying this happened starting when they were kids as young as seven and eight years old, and went up until only twelve or thirteen. It was the early teen years. But some of the things are just going to mention briefly, and this is hard to hear Rose, but these are some pretty awful but specific allegations.
00:26:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought it was interesting the because you don't really hear about young girls. I can't actually think of another young girl who has been an accuser.
00:26:56
Speaker 4: But Marie Nicole port.
00:27:00
Speaker 3: He says that Michael would masturbate while she was naked, and she said that he would ask her to spread her legs and he would masturbate while looking at her.
00:27:10
Speaker 4: So that and I've never heard a have you heard of a girl.
00:27:13
Speaker 2: A girl.
00:27:14
Speaker 4: This is the first one that I heard of.
00:27:17
Speaker 3: Dominic said that he would lie in bed naked with Michael and that Michael would have him basically, and this is what he said, suck and play with his nipples while he masturbated.
00:27:29
Speaker 4: So, yeah, that's disturbing.
00:27:31
Speaker 2: This is hard stuff to hear. Does another aldo again. They're putting their names and their faces to all these allegations and laying them out, but telling the New York Times that Michael Jackson at one point they were playing in bed, playing a game boy, and Michael Jackson performed oral sex on him. There was another incident. I'm not sure which one of the siblings it was Robes, but I I don't even want to mention it. Jesus Christ. The fingers, yes, yes, he said.
00:27:59
Speaker 3: He said his pess was so small that Michael Jackson only had to use three fingers to perform yes to masturbate, or to yes to physically to fondle him, fondle him, thank you, Okay, yes, I was trying to find the right word. Just feels so disgusting. But this family had a phone line installed. They say that just was a direct line to Michael Jackson. I know that a lot of people say, how could you not know? But did they know that Michael was sleeping in bed with their children? And they thought that was okay? That always blows my mind.
00:28:30
Speaker 2: But he blows my mind rome to think of how big of a superstar this guy was, and he's giving your kids attention. Michael Jackson walks into your house and it's interested in you, RoHS. That changes. This is Michael frickin' Jackson in my house in New Jersey, hanging out with my kids, still sitting at the table.
00:28:49
Speaker 4: Let him sleep in bed with Sabine.
00:28:52
Speaker 2: You would not it's Michael Jackson. I'm not saying I would. I'm okay, fine, I got to hear what you're saying, babe. But for so many fams and people get there there this is everything surreal. Even the most important entertainer on earth and possibly ever is showing you and your kids all the attention in the world. He wants you to tour with him all over the world. He's invites you to never Land Ranch, gives you full access robes. What do you You're never gonna believe robes? Oh god, this.
00:29:23
Speaker 3: Is Honestly, it's almost as if the parents are much like a lot of us who don't want to believe anything bad could be happening, and so you just choose to believe it's not because you enjoy being around him, being a part of his talent, being a part of his success, being a part of his world. And you'll basically just convince yourself, even if your gut is telling you something other, that you want to believe in the best and the best parts of him.
00:29:56
Speaker 2: Again, Hey, Michael Jackson has his family has the estate has always denied these allegations, but they are coming up again, and they these are actually new and there is a lawsuit at a time when people are trying to take the weekend to celebrate the man's music. But that story ended in nineteen eighty eight.
00:30:20
Speaker 3: Well before his first documented accusation, which I believe was nineteen ninety three.
00:30:25
Speaker 2: Yes it did, all right, folks, see it, don't see it, love him, don't love him, be conflicted. I don't know what's right or wrong. Heroes, but I mean, you name them what, Elvis, the Beatles, I don't know, Retha Franklin, Michael Jackson. There's a handful, no matter how small the lists get, of most influential artists. He stays on it.
00:30:54
Speaker 4: He does the worldwide too.
00:30:55
Speaker 3: This is not just the United States, This is the entire this world.
00:30:59
Speaker 2: This ain't a Bruce Springsteen situation where he's some Hall of Famer. Even the guy that big of a deal ain't got shit on Michael Jackson and the influence he had. Robes, what do we do with this guy? Folks? There's one to hop on and give you that update. This is going to be a part of the conversation. It will continue, but this movie is going to positively Robes crack a hundred million dollars.
00:31:20
Speaker 3: A wow.
00:31:21
Speaker 4: That just again speaks to the power of his music.
00:31:25
Speaker 2: All right, folks, Well, always appreciate you spending some time with us on behalf of my dear Amy Robot. I'm TJ. Holmes and we will talk to y'all soon.
Speaker 1: It is Saturday, April twenty fifth, and everybody seems to be talking about Michael, including the four kids who say he sexually abused.
00:00:15
Speaker 2: Them when they were children and have now filed a lawsuit against him. Yeah, they're talking not just in court but also to the New York Times. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. I do not know what in God's name we're supposed to do with this Robes. He is one of the most impactful artists and has meant so much to us and his music has but Robes, there are some now new serious allegations being talked about at the same time that everybody's talking about and almost celebrating his music with the movie Robes. What are we supposed to do with Michael Jackson?
00:00:58
Speaker 3: This is tough and to hear year these four siblings come forward after defending him for decades and say that they too were I mean, they get specific, they get detailed. It is graphic, but abused, sexually abused by Michael Jackson for years and years and years. And to hear their accounts and they jibe very much with what we've heard from other.
00:01:27
Speaker 4: Now adults who've come forward.
00:01:29
Speaker 3: They all have a very similar pattern, and that was part of the reason why these four step.
00:01:34
Speaker 2: Forward and robes. In fairness, these are allegations that have been made for several years, but we as the public are just now hearing about it for a number of legal reasons, including a lawsuit and robes. The lawsuit was filed a month ago, but they just talked to the New York Times and that article was posted on the same weekend that the movie Michael coming out.
00:02:00
Speaker 3: And that is deliberate, of course, because look, the point being is, we all want to celebrate his music.
00:02:06
Speaker 4: We all want to remember.
00:02:07
Speaker 3: Where we were when Billy Jean and Bad and Thriller were all happening, and to see it all be produced in a beautiful, artistic, just phenomenal, joyful way by a descendant of Michael Jackson, his own nephew playing him. We want to celebrate it. We want to dance, we want to sing, We want to remember how we felt and where we were at that time, and we don't want to think about all of the accusations because at this point they're just accusations and we have to recall and I think maybe we justify enjoying his music because we can say he was never convicted.
00:02:45
Speaker 2: Damn, Robes, you said, they're just accusations, right, just accusations. Apply that to every single one of the Epstein victims, and you would look at me saying they're just accusations. You would say, shut up, you idiot. Are you out of your mind? That has been documented and we have to believe these survivors, is what you would tell me about if I use that phrase when we use it here, and I think a lot of people are Robes, why are they using it because he meant that We want to believe that he was not this thing.
00:03:18
Speaker 3: We want to believe he was an innocent, almost god like, a sexual being who was just phenomenally talented, obviously mentally had some issues and was abused as a child.
00:03:32
Speaker 4: We want to feel sorry for him.
00:03:33
Speaker 3: We want to lift him up, yep, we want to enjoy his unbelievable talent, and we don't want to think that he could have been a monster.
00:03:42
Speaker 2: Okay, if we don't want to think that, Robes, does this mean we are looking at all of these people with stories and the people that we would normally call victims of survivors, we are looking at them and saying you're full of shit.
00:03:55
Speaker 3: Or you're screwing up something that I loved. You're messing with something that I want to appreciate. You're forcing me to have to give up enjoyment of something I love to believe you And.
00:04:06
Speaker 2: Does that just go to the impact of his music Robes? I think it does we all collectively in denial.
00:04:13
Speaker 4: Yes, I think the answer is yes. I'll be honest. I have not wanted to think about it. I have not wanted to and this is look.
00:04:20
Speaker 3: And I do appreciate the comparison to Jeffrey Epstein because we all feel very passionately the opposite way about Jeffrey Epstein and about these young girls and young women who he tortured and frankly ruined many of their lives.
00:04:35
Speaker 4: But it's interesting to.
00:04:37
Speaker 3: Hear from the man who made the HBO documentary Leaving Neverland Neverland. He also did interviews leading up to this movie this release, and he said that he is watching Hollywood cash in on a man that he calls worse than Jeffrey Epstein, and he talks about why nobody seems to.
00:04:57
Speaker 2: Mind, nobody cares, nobody cares, and Michael Jackson will never be canceled. Michael Jackson MJ has a hit Broadway show, Robes hit, and you know what, they just touched on the allegations a little bit. We were at that show, danced our asses off. I walked out happy as hell.
00:05:14
Speaker 3: I went twice enjoying ourselves, having a good time, told other people to see it.
00:05:18
Speaker 2: Michael is coming out this weekend, Robes. This is going to be the biggest music biopick ever. It's already it's They were predicting this thing was gonna make forty to fifty in its first weekend. That's almost doubled. Now people have been talking about this so much and so excited they are running out to see it. So, yes, Robes, a lot of people are making money still off this guy. And you put Billy Gene on, I dare you to put it on in any room and people don't stop dancing, starts at saying, so Robes are we just do we need to all say out loud, we don't give a damn what he did or what he's accused of. We're gonna keep doing this or do we need to take the same position we scream and yell we need to take with the Epstein victims and any other victims robes, which is they have to be believed. And the reason they're not believed is why fear of what these powerful men, these famous men, these rich men, Robes. What are we supposed to do? Are you telling me? I like pretty young things so much that I'm gonna tell all you survivors y'all are lying? Is that what we're doing?
00:06:26
Speaker 3: I think people just avoid it, avoid it, ignore it. They don't they because deep down, I mean, you and I had this conversation.
00:06:32
Speaker 4: You asked me.
00:06:32
Speaker 3: You said, do you think that all these kids are lying? And the answer is no, I don't. Okay, I don't think they're all lying.
00:06:39
Speaker 2: If that's the case, Robes, then we're in a position to where we have someone who is the possibly most influential musician we have ever ever known, who has impacted all of our lives since birth almost to this point. Absolutely, we're just going to ignore it all and just keep on dancing, Robes. The stuff we're talking about is not even I think the worst crimes out there are murder and child molestation. And I would actually raise child molestation up a little.
00:07:12
Speaker 4: Higher, and I think most people in the world would agree with you.
00:07:14
Speaker 2: Okay, So that guy we're talking about, we are willing to just keep dancing and say he wasn't convicted. This conversation is happening now. And yes, the movie is out. It's going to do Gangbusters. We talked about it. We've done previous episode on the movie Robes and how people, the critics don't like it because it just goes up to nineteen eighty eight, just celebrates his music and ignores what is still a part of his legacy. Well, Robes. Now this family in particular, we need to talk about a family Robes that, according to the article at least that was released by the New York Times yesterday, a family in New Jersey that spent a lot of time with him, five kids. They have filed a lawsuit. It was a month ago, but now it's getting more attention because they did this interview and Robes the stuff they describe. Wait, but first we need to explain who they are. They were close to him and have literally been defending him for decades.
00:08:06
Speaker 3: Yes, and they were called his second family. That was basically the Moniker that this family absolutely loved, talked about so did Michael Jackson. He spent many nights in their home. They spent many nights in his home. They traveled with him, yes in yes, was.
00:08:22
Speaker 4: It Hawthorne, New Jersey. I saw somewhere just outside of New York City.
00:08:25
Speaker 3: It's in suburban New York City area, just outside of the city itself.
00:08:29
Speaker 2: And the reason they knew him, they claim, is that the dad managed a hotel, a luxury hotel in New York where Michael Jackson would stay. That's how they met and they became so close robes. They talked about him like a frequent visitor. He was part of the family at their house in New Jersey. The idea of the King of Pop who was hanging out with some random family New Jersey sounds.
00:08:51
Speaker 3: Crazy, yep, because I think, look, and then that's where you want to like, you want to have your heart go out to him. And he was looking for a family. He was looking for, you know, so safety, he was looking for love. And then you want to just make it be that instead of him looking to abuse and violate and betray that family's trust by sexually molesting their children. And that's where we don't want to go there in our head, but that is what is detailed by these siblings and four of the.
00:09:21
Speaker 4: Siblings are in the lawsuit, but there is a fifth one too.
00:09:24
Speaker 2: And they say all five of the kids were abused, but for legal reasons, some really some legal technicalities, the fifth kid could not be included in this lawsuit. But yes, all five say of their abuse, but four are a part of this lawsuit. Again, it came out a month ago, but it's starting to get more and more attention. They're called the Cassios, the name of the family, but they had five kids at the time. The victims here are all in their thirties and forties, but there are four people in particular, the siblings Aldo Dominic, Eddie and Marie, Nicole, one girl in there, and Rome. It was interesting to hear that a lot of this they went through their entire lives not sharing stories. They said individually they didn't know their siblings were being abused because they never shared these stories.
00:10:07
Speaker 3: Yes, the way they described it, they said, Michael Jackson would tell them that they were the only one and that they were special, and so each of them felt like they in a weird way. As a kid, you probably liked the extra attention from the King of pop right, Yeah, so you're being told you're my only one, like you're the one I love, You're the one I adore, and you're being told that that love comes in the form of sexual gratification, and you're too young to know. You might feel icky and feel wrong. But according to them, he was showing them child porn. He was showing them naked photos of children. So he was normalizing sexualizing young kids.
00:10:41
Speaker 4: And when you're that age, you know, you just you.
00:10:45
Speaker 3: You idolize this man and you think, Okay, I'm being loved by him. So there's a part of you that does feel special, and it's why you don't tell anybody else.
00:10:53
Speaker 2: What was the word that keep? They showed it to lessen the end, Well, they used kept using a word he was so desensitized.
00:11:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, to desensitize them from sexualizing children.
00:11:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, ah, yeah yeah.
00:11:04
Speaker 4: And I hadn't even thought about that, Like, oh my god, that's horrible.
00:11:08
Speaker 2: We have to say and we should say. Now. The estate has for a long time and continues to deny that there was anything that Michael Jackson did that was inappropriate or molesting any kids. And they're saying this is a money grab by the family. We'll get into that statement. So why are we here, Robes. It's easy to just say, well, the timing here, the movie's coming out, so now they want to talk about it. So it sounds like some kind of a shakedown. But however, let's explain if we go back Robes. They start the story in a lot of ways with a twenty ten interview with Oprah Winfrey. So when a lot of allegations and after he died and a lot of people were talking about him Robes in two thousand and nine, this family in particular came out and defended Michael Jackson.
00:11:54
Speaker 3: Yes, and even the parents now are saying, we truly believed that he had never done anything to Archill. They were absolutely and they say completely in the dark to what they're now hearing from their now adult children. But yes, they vehemently said that he had never been inappropriate with them. They were defending him posthumously. Look, I didn't realize this.
00:12:15
Speaker 4: When he died.
00:12:16
Speaker 3: He was five hundred million dollars in debt something like that. He's now I guess this estate has brought in three billion dollars. When you think about the renewed interest in his music after he died, the MJ that's was a big part of it, the Broadway show and now this movie. But they just say the streaming, the downloads have just skyrocketed, like just enough space from the allegations and then his death and boom. So yes, they were a part of this kind of trying to scrub clean his.
00:12:46
Speaker 4: His record or his reputation after he died.
00:12:49
Speaker 2: So what happened? Why is that family that came out defending him, calling themselves his second family? Why does this family with parents and five kids come out and defend them? And how to we get here? Well, you have to go back to twenty nineteen Robes that documentary Finding Neverland, which you can't find anymore. It's been pool for legal reasons. You can't find it on HBO Max. But Robes that was all the talk at the time when it came out. Two accusers totally separate from these folks, came out and they told their stories on that documentary Finding Neverland, and that's what triggered this family and these kids. They say to go wait a minute, that sounds familiar.
00:13:30
Speaker 4: It's very eerie, and this is a similar story.
00:13:33
Speaker 3: When you think you're the only one and you're going to take it to your grave because you feel culpable. I mean, these kids felt responsible. They said Michael Jackson made them like even groomed them on how to defend him and protect him and be an army for him, so to speak. And at the same time they felt like they were keeping this special secret. But when they start hearing someone else detail almost exactly what happened to them, how what happened to them The names that were used for sex, like code words for sex were the same, code words for alcohol was the same, And all of a sudden, they thought, holy hell, he was doing this to other kids too.
00:14:10
Speaker 2: So this was finding Neverland Ropes in twenty nineteen. Now, it's my understanding, and from what I've read in all these accounts, including the New York Times article, after Finding Neverland came out, the estate reached out to them, the family, to try to work out money.
00:14:26
Speaker 3: Yes, and they did negotiate something I think I believe each of the siblings received over a five year period somewhere around two point something million dollars.
00:14:34
Speaker 2: The total end up sixteen million total in paying everybody but Ropes. This wasn't I thought it went the other way that after the Finding Neverland came out that the family reached out to the estate and say, oh, we got you now. No, it was the state that took proactive measures.
00:14:50
Speaker 3: Let's just go ahead and make sure everybody's comfortable and doesn't feel like speaking out, So.
00:14:54
Speaker 2: Why now would they want to start speaking or rogues. Those payments ended in twenty twenty five, and this is where we are now, and it's unclear because the family suggests that the estate actually reached out and wanted to up the ante and give them more compensation afterwards. No, no, no, no. The estate is claiming that, yes, the payments start to dry up, so of course you all want more money now, and they came back. So this is what lands us in where we are. But Robes the family saying yes that finding never Land calls them to start having conversations within their own family, and they started piecing together. Oh it happened to you too, Oh it happened. Oh that happened to me. So now here we are, Robes, how much does this before we get into the actual lawsuit, how much does this hurt credibility if it seems like it's a money grab. If you say, oh, you made one settlement, that money dried up, now you want more money, and this movie's coming out. Does that hurt credibility? Yes? It does?
00:15:54
Speaker 4: It does? It does?
00:15:55
Speaker 3: I think that in what it does is it gives folks who love Michael Jackson an hour. Wow, you know what, I don't know what happened. And the timing is suspicious. And oh when the money drives up, Now you're gonna hoot and holler, right when a movie comes out when you know a bunch of money has been made and there's going to be money to disseminate. Yeah, that's suspicious. And so you know what, I don't know what happened. I love his music. I'm going to see the movie. There's absolutely all right.
00:16:23
Speaker 2: So this gets us up to now and the movie that's out that's doing gangbusters already setting records and it's preview day on Thursday, setting records on Friday when it did come out. But it gets us to this point. Stay here. We'll explain exactly what is in this lawsuit. We'll explain also, and we will give a warning. Some of this stuff is very difficult to hear. But some of the stuff that's being detailed, Yes, in the lawsuit and also in the new article. We're definitely going to let you hear what the Jackson estate has said in response. And the other thing, why did the who directed the Finding never Land documentary, why is he the one saying Jackson is worse than Epstein's there? All right, continue here on Amy and TJ. Michael Jackson, j excuse me, it's called Michael. I was looking at all the titles of this movie. It's not Michael Jackson, not mj' it is Michael Michael, which I think is the perfect title. But it's doing great at the box office. But at the same time, a lawsuit has been filed against Michael Jackson and the estate alleging some pretty awful molestation and abuse that happened over years with his family they called themselves his second family rogues to go into this lawsuit. In some of the stuff they talked about this is I mean, this is stuff we've heard before. Drugs, alcohol, grooming.
00:17:51
Speaker 3: Yes, and child pornography so yes. The Casio siblings actually talked about his code words for wanting to have sex with them or wanting to have sexual acts with them.
00:18:02
Speaker 4: Can I have a meeting? He would talk about.
00:18:05
Speaker 3: Going to Disneyland. Disneyland was a code word for sex. Can we go to Disneyland? Can we go to Neverland? He also called, and we had heard this one before. A wine, Jesus juice and then anything that was hard liquored, Disney.
00:18:20
Speaker 2: Juice, Jesus crime, any robes And again these are all allegations. These are all allegations. But the allegations here Robes they said not just happened out on tour, happened at Neverland Ranch. They said it happened at their own home. Some of this abuse that took place in robes. I was it was interesting. I'm I'm not sure how these parents feel now. Ah, But they went out on tour with Michael Jackson and talked about at times they left their kids in Michael Jackson's care. Yes, well there he was overseas touring.
00:18:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, they left their children with him in another country while they went back to work or life or whatever. I cannot imagine how they feel now. So the lawsuit, we actually have an excerpt from the lawsuit. It says Michael Jackson was a serial child predator who, over the course of more than a decade, drugged, raped, and sexually assaulted each of the plaintiffs, beginning when some of them were as young as seven or eight. Jackson's attacks on these siblings went on for extended periods, including in locations around the world, and when Jackson and his children were guests in the plaintiff's family home. Jackson groomed and brainwashed each plaintiff without the knowledge of the others or their parents, throughout their childhood years.
00:19:41
Speaker 2: Again, these are all just allegations. When Robes had to remember, Michael Jackson's never been convicted of anything. He did face trial for sexual abuse. Section was conduct trial. He was acquitted. He did, however, settle for twenty three plus million dollars with an accuser losing it on the year here. But there was a settlement that he did make. Didn't no admission of anything, but he did have at least one settlement. So now you're talking about now this lawsuit five kids, you're talking about the documentary, two other kids. You're talking about the accusations from one kid that he settled with, talking about accusations in trial rogues. We've got a collection of like documented up to ten kids. Are we what are we supposed to do? Are we really supposed to say? Ah, he was never convicted, So all good. Jeffrey Epstein was only convicted of a few things down in Florida. Other folks he was never convicted of. So how can we be dismissive Rose because pyt is that good? And if the truth is yes, we could just say that Yeah.
00:20:46
Speaker 3: I mean, I think people like I said, not only love his music, but love where they were when they first heard this song. And it's just a nostalgic feeling of joy, and you just don't you want to be able to keep that intact, And in order to do so, you either have to say, well, he's never been convicted, and there are outs, there are off off ramps for folks mentally that they can take and compartmentalize and justify still loving his music and spending money that goes straight to the Jackson family estate.
00:21:16
Speaker 2: Well, a weird hypothetical. Let's say he had been convicted. Would you still be listening to Billy the same?
00:21:22
Speaker 4: I think it would be a huge, very different. Yes, I do. I do think that his music would not be played.
00:21:27
Speaker 2: It's given us an out.
00:21:28
Speaker 4: I do I think that he would have gone on.
00:21:32
Speaker 3: Look, he was more prolific than R Kelly, for sure, obviously, but R Kelly's music is not played on the radio like it's I mean, yes, he.
00:21:39
Speaker 2: Was convicted and he was, he's sitting in prison.
00:21:42
Speaker 3: Correct, won't get out right, and people still love I Believe I Can Fly and some of his other hits, and I get and you might be privately listening to that, but would you be blasting that. You might feel a little shame, or you might feel like, maybe this isn't you know, in the right place. I can't be playing this music. No one feels that about Michael Jackson. Thriller every High Halloween jumps up to the charts at Spotify right now, I believe he's number twenty six in an artists streamed and listened to currently like he is in the top of the charts, and he's surged back up. And of course now with this movie and certainly with the way musical his songs had a new life and money is pouring into the Jackson.
00:22:23
Speaker 2: Family for a guy that is described as worse as Epstein, worse than Epstein, rhaps I don't know who can get in any of our faces and say and make a defense of this stuff that doesn't include well, he wasn't convicted. It really does seem to boil down to that, well, he wasn't convicted. I was talking to my sister via textas morning, going back and forth about Michael Jackson, about all this stuff in this episode we're about to do. She ultimately responded with, allegedly, that was it. That was an argument. Is that our argument because we love this man and this music so much, My god, we love it so much, Ropes, he made a product that we love so much it'll make us overlook the most heinous of crime.
00:23:15
Speaker 4: Because it mingles.
00:23:16
Speaker 3: Because I think the reason why, yes, the music is that phenomenal and that good and that I mean, he was beyond TALENTEDO. But it mingles with our own personal nostalgic memories of those days.
00:23:29
Speaker 4: And we don't want to lose that.
00:23:30
Speaker 3: We don't want to upend that, we don't want to change how we feel when a song takes us back to one of our favorite spaces or places. And that's just a part of it. Dan Reid, you have a quote in here that you found. This is the man who is the director of Finding Neverland, and I think this sums it up. He said, So a lot of people, I think will kind of swallow any misgivings they may have and just sort of say, oh, well, it's a great jukebox movie and just completely ignore the fact that this guy was worse than Jeffrey Epstein.
00:24:00
Speaker 2: Is that wrong to say? Is it wrong for any of us to go, I don't want to roll with this guy because I believe blank blank blank blank blank is Can anyone look at us and say, how dare you say that about Michael Jackson? He was never convicted of anything.
00:24:15
Speaker 4: Oh, I do think there are people like that.
00:24:17
Speaker 2: Of course, is that legit? Am I really supposed to just not? We're giving ourselves the you said the off.
00:24:26
Speaker 4: Ramp, right, yes, because he was never convicted.
00:24:30
Speaker 2: He was never convicted, all right, So we'd have to have to hear the Jackson estate response. And it was a longer one, but this is probably the most relevant chunk. But they did put out a pre lengthy statement.
00:24:40
Speaker 3: They did they said this lawsuit is a desperate money grab by additional members of the Casillo family. The family staunchly defended Michael Jackson for more than twenty five years, attesting to his innocence of inappropriate conduct. This new court filing is a transparent forum shopping tactic in their scheme to obtain hundreds of millions of dollars from my state and companies. The Casios spent decades defending and affirming Michael's innocence. Notably, these shakedown attempts come more than fifteen years after Michael's death, thus carrying no risk of being sued for defamation. Sadly, in death, just as in life, Michael's talents and success continue to make him a target.
00:25:21
Speaker 2: I mean you could take that. I mean, I understand and I get that, and yes, there's money involved here and lawsuits have been filed, and yeah, you would question, Like you said, credibility is a part of it. But does that take away from all of this? I don't know what to do with this.
00:25:38
Speaker 4: It's hard, you know.
00:25:39
Speaker 3: Look, it's true, their stories have changed, their stories have shifted, they have done it about face.
00:25:43
Speaker 4: There are questions about their time.
00:25:45
Speaker 2: Okay, can I ask that you said there's stories have changed. Is the story just flipped right? The accounts they're giving, it's not different accounts of them, letstation, It's just that they were saying there was none and they completely didn't want Eddie.
00:25:59
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, you.
00:26:00
Speaker 3: Can make the argument if you're a staunch Michael Jackson defender and just think that he loved children platonically. You could say, oh, yeah, well they just saw the twenty nineteen documentary and thought we can just say the same damn thing and get a shit ton of money and never have to work again. So I get it people can say that, and I understand.
00:26:20
Speaker 2: We just want to take a moment here and include a couple of the allegations that they're saying. Robes and they had very specific incidents, most of them saying this happened starting when they were kids as young as seven and eight years old, and went up until only twelve or thirteen. It was the early teen years. But some of the things are just going to mention briefly, and this is hard to hear Rose, but these are some pretty awful but specific allegations.
00:26:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought it was interesting the because you don't really hear about young girls. I can't actually think of another young girl who has been an accuser.
00:26:56
Speaker 4: But Marie Nicole port.
00:27:00
Speaker 3: He says that Michael would masturbate while she was naked, and she said that he would ask her to spread her legs and he would masturbate while looking at her.
00:27:10
Speaker 4: So that and I've never heard a have you heard of a girl.
00:27:13
Speaker 2: A girl.
00:27:14
Speaker 4: This is the first one that I heard of.
00:27:17
Speaker 3: Dominic said that he would lie in bed naked with Michael and that Michael would have him basically, and this is what he said, suck and play with his nipples while he masturbated.
00:27:29
Speaker 4: So, yeah, that's disturbing.
00:27:31
Speaker 2: This is hard stuff to hear. Does another aldo again. They're putting their names and their faces to all these allegations and laying them out, but telling the New York Times that Michael Jackson at one point they were playing in bed, playing a game boy, and Michael Jackson performed oral sex on him. There was another incident. I'm not sure which one of the siblings it was Robes, but I I don't even want to mention it. Jesus Christ. The fingers, yes, yes, he said.
00:27:59
Speaker 3: He said his pess was so small that Michael Jackson only had to use three fingers to perform yes to masturbate, or to yes to physically to fondle him, fondle him, thank you, Okay, yes, I was trying to find the right word. Just feels so disgusting. But this family had a phone line installed. They say that just was a direct line to Michael Jackson. I know that a lot of people say, how could you not know? But did they know that Michael was sleeping in bed with their children? And they thought that was okay? That always blows my mind.
00:28:30
Speaker 2: But he blows my mind rome to think of how big of a superstar this guy was, and he's giving your kids attention. Michael Jackson walks into your house and it's interested in you, RoHS. That changes. This is Michael frickin' Jackson in my house in New Jersey, hanging out with my kids, still sitting at the table.
00:28:49
Speaker 4: Let him sleep in bed with Sabine.
00:28:52
Speaker 2: You would not it's Michael Jackson. I'm not saying I would. I'm okay, fine, I got to hear what you're saying, babe. But for so many fams and people get there there this is everything surreal. Even the most important entertainer on earth and possibly ever is showing you and your kids all the attention in the world. He wants you to tour with him all over the world. He's invites you to never Land Ranch, gives you full access robes. What do you You're never gonna believe robes? Oh god, this.
00:29:23
Speaker 3: Is Honestly, it's almost as if the parents are much like a lot of us who don't want to believe anything bad could be happening, and so you just choose to believe it's not because you enjoy being around him, being a part of his talent, being a part of his success, being a part of his world. And you'll basically just convince yourself, even if your gut is telling you something other, that you want to believe in the best and the best parts of him.
00:29:56
Speaker 2: Again, Hey, Michael Jackson has his family has the estate has always denied these allegations, but they are coming up again, and they these are actually new and there is a lawsuit at a time when people are trying to take the weekend to celebrate the man's music. But that story ended in nineteen eighty eight.
00:30:20
Speaker 3: Well before his first documented accusation, which I believe was nineteen ninety three.
00:30:25
Speaker 2: Yes it did, all right, folks, see it, don't see it, love him, don't love him, be conflicted. I don't know what's right or wrong. Heroes, but I mean, you name them what, Elvis, the Beatles, I don't know, Retha Franklin, Michael Jackson. There's a handful, no matter how small the lists get, of most influential artists. He stays on it.
00:30:54
Speaker 4: He does the worldwide too.
00:30:55
Speaker 3: This is not just the United States, This is the entire this world.
00:30:59
Speaker 2: This ain't a Bruce Springsteen situation where he's some Hall of Famer. Even the guy that big of a deal ain't got shit on Michael Jackson and the influence he had. Robes, what do we do with this guy? Folks? There's one to hop on and give you that update. This is going to be a part of the conversation. It will continue, but this movie is going to positively Robes crack a hundred million dollars.
00:31:20
Speaker 3: A wow.
00:31:21
Speaker 4: That just again speaks to the power of his music.
00:31:25
Speaker 2: All right, folks, Well, always appreciate you spending some time with us on behalf of my dear Amy Robot. I'm TJ. Holmes and we will talk to y'all soon.