June 23, 2026
MAJOR UPDATE: Ransom Note Revealed Nancy Guthrie Died After Abduction
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RSS Feed Several news outlets are reporting that law enforcement sources say a second ransom note sent to a Tucson television station claimed that 84 Nancy Guthrie was dead. In the note, the kidnappers reportedly said they did not mean to kill her, but that she died soon after being abducted. According to authorities, the FBI and police believe the notes were authentic and from Guthrie’s kidnappers. TMZ is also revealing the contents of the notes they received, where the author clearly states, “time is no longer of the essence.”
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00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hey, folks, it is Tuesday, June twenty third, and Nancy Guthrie died shortly after she was kidnapped. That is according to information from the Ransom Notes, information that has not been released to the public until now. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Let me give the caveat. This is all according Robes to several media outlets coming from several media sources, excuse me, several law enforcement sources, and Robes some of these outlets also have seen the notes themselves. So this information we're getting now, Robes is pretty jarn.
00:00:40
Speaker 2: It's jarring, and it's legitimate, and it makes sense because if you go back and you start remembering how this all unfolded, there was a real urgency, I mean an immediate sense of urgency. We knew that Nancy Guthrie had medicine, that she needed life saving medicine, She had medice, and she needed to alleviate pain. And there was a real concern. Remember p mac County Sheriff saying we've got to find her in the next twenty four hours. It's crucial. And then all of a sudden it didn't feel as immediate. In the days that followed. It was still intense, it was still urgent, but there was a sense just hearing from the Guthrie family that there might have been some sort of a shift.
00:01:21
Speaker 3: And now this makes sense.
00:01:23
Speaker 1: This does help us piece together robes a lot of what we in the public were not aware of, but they certainly knew what was going on behind the scenes. Now we want to get you caught up here because there have been some competing headlines and some conflicting headlines and even some confusion about all these ransom notes that we'll get into. But the bottom line is we are getting information and details from these notes that we are seeing and hearing for the first time the claims now in the robes of confusion comes we remember that was confusion initially, ransom notes coming. TMZ seems to be getting a new ransom note every hour that they're explaining that they've gotten. And then there was another set of ransom notes that other outlets got, in particular a Tucson television station. So this is what we're talking about kind of competing claims right now about two different sets of notes. But let's start rolled to what we're talking about with the note at least that the media outlets got, in particular the Tucson television station.
00:02:19
Speaker 2: Yes, so there was a first note that they got pretty quickly on that demanded millions of dollars in ransom, and so there were instructions.
00:02:28
Speaker 3: They were very specific.
00:02:31
Speaker 2: And this is one that the FEDS did deem was they believed a credible ransom note from the kidnappers. But then this second note they got, that's the one we're talking about. This is the one that's making headlines, that said basically that Nancy Guthrie died shortly after she was abducted, and that the kidnappers didn't mean to kill her. So either she died in some way from the abduction itself or shortly thereafter, maybe because she didn't have her meds. But when they said they didn't mean to kill her, they didn't say they didn't kill her.
00:03:10
Speaker 3: I've only seen the phrase they didn't mean to kill her.
00:03:12
Speaker 2: So it still sounds like she died at their hands in some way, shape or form.
00:03:16
Speaker 1: And again, at this point we're left to try to piece together now ROMs with some of these messages what might have happened to her, because the bottom line is we still don't know. We still don't know where she is, who took her why, I guess is because of money. But this has been an incredible mystery. These notes add, they feel in some blanks roads, but they still continue to add to the mystery. And yes, the authorities, the federal government, the federal officials think these notes are real romes. This is the first again the family knew this a week after she disappeared. Yeah, we are now just hearing for the first time that they were told a week after she disappeared that she was dead in her note that the federal officials are saying they believe were real.
00:04:03
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, I mean, look, we now know that the family had some sense a small sense of closure, and certainly not the news they were hoping for. But you also understand the need to have her back with them, to be able to go through the process of burying her, of mourning her, of holding a service for her, and understanding what happened. Everyone wants to know what happened, why it happened, and who did it. So, yes, there's a need for justice, There's a need for a lot of things, but it is fascinating to know that within a week of her abduction, the Guthrie family knew that there was little to no chance of her coming back alive.
00:04:41
Speaker 1: And we all saw kind of the tone change. It was a tone change in the family. It was a tone change with the local officials out there who were giving out so much information initially and then just stopped and they said, Nope, we're only going to be doing a press conference if we feel we need to. There was an urgency that went away and rose. The Guthrie fan had put out I think at least one, maybe two messages on social media before they got this second note. Again, we didn't know at the time, but they got this second note that said that Nancy Guthrie was dead. And then on February seventh, Savannah Guthrie and our siblings went on and made this statement and wrote, now this makes a whole lot more sense.
00:05:19
Speaker 2: Yes, they said, we received your message, and we understand. We beg you now to return our mother to us so that we can celebrate with her.
00:05:27
Speaker 3: This is the only way we will have peace.
00:05:29
Speaker 2: This is very valuable to us, and we will pay I remember this one because it was such a shift and it sounded like, Okay, they're communicating in some other language about something we don't know about that they clearly understand and are trying to offer a response to. So now knowing that the message was that Nancy Guthrie had died, this what Savannah said and what they were asking for makes so much more sense.
00:05:57
Speaker 1: And they can't so Brokee, we as we say, we think about how impressed we were with Savannah Guthrie in particular and her whole family and how they kept it together and how she's gone back to work. Robes, we are hearing now that all this was going on, and a week after her mom disappeared, they might have had a little more understanding in Robes, I guess resigned to the fact that she was dead already. Yeah, that early on in this whole process, while the rest of us, the rest of the world hoping.
00:06:30
Speaker 3: That she might still be alive.
00:06:32
Speaker 2: Yet that's wild to me that they knew within pretty much a week, and we had a month and two months and we're over four months now and we're just now finding out. I also think it's interesting, look and it makes total sense that the FBI and certainly the Guthrie family would have asked as well that these media and specifically the Tucson television station asked them to keep all of that information private. Think about that an entire newsroom knew that the contents that that's second ransom note clearly stated that Nancy Guthrie was dead and it never once got out.
00:07:06
Speaker 1: And give them credit. I know media gets reputation, reporters just going after chasing a lead, chasing a headline, you want to get a scoop. But Robes, We've been a part of organizations that have done this over the years. This is one that they do take very seriously and take it as a public duty. And Robes, this is just being a good human.
00:07:26
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, you don't want to do anything to undermine the investigation. And again, yes, I think that's very fair to say. Most people would not assume. I think maybe they'd think the worst of journalists, investigative journalists trying to get the scoop, trying to get the lead, trying to be the first to report something.
00:07:41
Speaker 3: Look, I do think almost.
00:07:43
Speaker 2: The majority of journalists are good people who actually have a desire to inform and to help folks and to provide a service, and not to undermine an investigation or to do anything that could bring harm to someone. And so with that in mind, obviously they kept it to themselves.
00:08:01
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, here we are. It was this June twenty twenty third. Yeah, they've been sitting on this since the first of February, So good on them for doing that. Now let's go to the other thing. The other part of the story, and the part that was making a lot of headlines yesterday, is that Harvey Levin over at TMZ was reporting something very different. He was talking about and almost knocking down some claims because for some reason, people were associating maybe what we're hearing about the notes from the Tucson TV stations to the notes that TMZ got. It sounds like robes to me, before we get into this, two totally different camps were sending notes to different media outlets, So which one's the real when which one's not?
00:08:42
Speaker 3: It sounds like from what see if you and I are on the same page.
00:08:45
Speaker 2: Because we haven't discussed this beforehand, but it sounded to me like the FEDS and the police are all saying that the notes that were given to the Tucson television station were from the kidnappers, were from the abductors.
00:08:57
Speaker 3: But it appears that.
00:08:58
Speaker 2: The notes that tm was receiving was from somebody associated with the kidnappers or who knew of the kidnapping. So it was someone with information who was close enough in this inner circle, if not a part of the kidnapping ring, but was trying to get information as to her whereabouts to TMZ but maybe wasn't in that inner circle, but had knowledge.
00:09:22
Speaker 1: Had knowledge, didn't seem to be a participant robe but this drove us crazy throughout. This was the one that was asking for one hundred thousand in bitcoin. This was the one who claimed to know where Nancy Guthrie was, to know where the kidnappers were, and that was pretty I mean, I know everybody looks out for themselves and whatnot, but that's pretty crappy to know to have the information that can give relief to this family. That was yes, so who knows?
00:09:46
Speaker 2: And that person who was writing kept saying that they were concerned that they would be arrested, that they would be charged with the kidnapping.
00:09:53
Speaker 3: That they would somehow be associated with the crime.
00:09:55
Speaker 2: And so because of that fear of that, in addition to retro u shin from the kidnappers themselves, he claimed, I say he but this person who was writing claimed that they needed this money to go underground, to go into hiding, because their life would be in peril if they gave this information.
00:10:14
Speaker 1: So Harvey Levin over at TMZ is essentially saying authorities thought those notes could have been authentic to so even if it was not a kidnapper, they believe they were talking to somebody who did possibly have information. But he said Ropes, the notes that came to him started was saying that Guthrie was scared but okay, did not mention that she had died. But there was a first and a second note that use similar language robes that suggests two very different things. The first one saying time is of the essence, that essentially suggests clock is ticking, maybe she's not doing well. We need to wrap this up.
00:10:53
Speaker 2: Yes, and that is in line with what you would expect for a kidnapping for ransom. That yes, they'd want to get in and out. They don't want to keep an eighty four year old woman and they just want their money. So yes, there was a sense of urgency. Time is of the essence. But in the second noe, this is where Harvey Levin and this does jibe exactly with what we are hearing from the FEDS with the kidnappers. Ransom notes time is no longer of the essence, and Harvey Levin points out, look, why would time no longer be of the essence? That would only indicate one thing that Nancy Guthrie was no longer alive.
00:11:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there is no hurry, And if you're trying to get money, you don't want the person you're trying to get money from to think that there's nothing to pay for anymore. So rope that kind of just common sensically. I guess we could go on board with that, but we don't know for sure. But ropes that time is no longer of the essence.
00:11:46
Speaker 2: What I'm curious about though, just obviously I don't know, and no one can get into the heads of the kidnappers. But if you're demanding money for someone to be returned alive, that person then dies and the family who you want wanted money from, who you know has money because you know who they are. If they're then offering money for just the whereabouts of the body, why would you not go ahead and do that? Now you can just totally back away. I know there could be forensic evidence, etc. But why not go ahead and give them that for the money.
00:12:18
Speaker 1: Who knows what's going on? Ay, And we talked about this before, Robes, and you were pointing out several pointed out, I mean, yeah, they might be under threat of some kind. They might legitimately be fearful of their lives if they give this information up, or if they're how close in proximity are they to the kidnappers. Possibly, It's just it's a mystery that I guess some things got cleared up, but the mystery kind of grows grows here, Roes, because there was suspicion. I think someone did get arrested in southern California for a hoax.
00:12:45
Speaker 3: There was a fake note, yes, so.
00:12:47
Speaker 1: But to sit here, Roes, and to think all those notes that were going around were real, were real, all the I mean, Harvey said they got a dozen plus emails, that's right wild to think it's all and given all the modern technology, all the investigative techniques and how they're able to track folks down, to think we have dozens of correspondents from legit people involved in this and we can't find.
00:13:13
Speaker 2: Them, can't figure out who they are, where they are, and how many people are involved.
00:13:19
Speaker 1: Well, stay here, folks. TMZ had more to offer in this case, including an offer they made to pay the ransom. Why didn't they, Well, the FBI wasn't crazy about the idea.
00:13:34
Speaker 2: Stare Welcome back everyone to this episode of Amy and TJ, where we are getting the first real solid piece of information in the Nancy Guthrie abduction case that we've had since the beginning.
00:13:57
Speaker 3: And look, she went missing.
00:13:59
Speaker 2: February first, first, correct, Thus, she was last seen the night before when her son in law dropped her off after an evening meal with her daughter and poof. It was just and it still remains a mystery as to where she is and who abducted her. But we are learning that the FEDS and the Guthrie family, it appears, believe that Nancy Guthrie is dead and that they knew it a week into her abduction.
00:14:25
Speaker 1: That's I think that's a headline here for me for the story Robes that they were it was February seven she put that note out. Yeah, that was in the same week her mom disappeared, reported missing on February first. And as we were holding out hope, as people were holding out hope, and they that the tone changed roles that you're right when she said we will pay. It's important for us to come back and be able to celebrate her. We heard, yes, right, you could piece it together there, but to know that they got a note that said your mom is dead.
00:14:57
Speaker 2: That's tough, that's gutting, and look, TMZ went on to say, this was really interesting. They actually said that they want and wanted to do, probably still do and probably will do a documentary because this was of such an unusual twist to have TMZ and local television stations receiving ransom notes and this big mystery. So they were interested in doing a documentary and to do so, they were interested in paying this bitcoin to this guy who has been content guy whoever this person is who has been reaching out to them with these notes saying they know where Nancy Guthrie is, and they just thought, hey, let's check. We don't want to do anything to upset the investigation or to upset the Guthrie family, so they checked in first with the FBI.
00:15:49
Speaker 1: And according to TMZ, FBI just thought that was interesting, so really didn't give them guidance on what they should do. TMZ, for their part, roles, they said they that's paying and see what happens. What if they did? What if a news outlet paid the ransom and got the information that led to Nancy Guthrie? Holy hell? Could you imagine what that story would be?
00:16:15
Speaker 3: I can't And would that be okay?
00:16:17
Speaker 2: Would that be wrong? Would that be right? Would that be illegal? I don't even know.
00:16:21
Speaker 1: Uh, you know what. It's a private entity. Can they do what they want to do? Now? I guess the authorities could argue that they're in some way impeding the investigation or interfering with the investigation. Sure, you got to get the okay, but it's one of those things rope. Sometimes people pay ransoms and they do get what they pay the ransom for. And that might have been one of those cases. But to think the what ifs? Right, if that many months ago, if that long ago, paying fifteen it was initially fifty thousand in bitcoin and it went up to one hundred.
00:16:50
Speaker 3: One hundred thousand or something like.
00:16:52
Speaker 1: That happens if you pay?
00:16:53
Speaker 3: Who knows.
00:16:53
Speaker 1: That's just an interesting fact in a detail there. But they offered. FBI didn't give them an okay, and they said they've now he used the word the FBI is now ghosts ghosting us.
00:17:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, he said that the FBI, and it was funny though he was trying not to upset them. He said, but we believe that they still are actively investigating. They want to see this come to a closure. They want to see answers for the Guthrie family. But yeah, he said, they've called them at least a dozen times or a half a dozen times. I don't know what the number was, he said, but multiple times. And the FBI is now no longer returning their phone calls. And he said beforehand they were returning their phone calls immediately.
00:17:29
Speaker 1: He should just call Cash Battel. Cash Hotel is clearly interested in this case.
00:17:34
Speaker 2: He should just slide into Cash Betel's DMS. I bet you that would work.
00:17:37
Speaker 1: Okay, you said that kind of jokingly, but yeah, I think it might. But really, this is I mean, give them some guy. I mean, TMZ has been central and actually been a good partner when you argue in this investigation with the FBI. They you could argue even more so than a CNN or a Tucson TV station might have had the wherewithal to say, the hell with it, We're gonna put everything we got out there and wouldn't give a damn given them credit on this one.
00:18:03
Speaker 2: I certainly will and they obviously look, the Guthrie family knows more than anyone now, Savannah being in the media and now being a victim to this entire situation. It's important to have these types of stories stay headline, stay in the headlines, because that gets people talking, that gets people calling in tips, and that could lead eventually to them.
00:18:24
Speaker 3: Finding their mothers.
00:18:25
Speaker 2: So I'm sure Savannah is grateful to the coverage and TMZ was respectful. Yes they were breaking news, and yes they were following up on tips, but they were keeping this story alive in a lot of ways.
00:18:36
Speaker 1: And continue to do so now. So yes, we haven't had significant we haven't had major update to at least the investigation, but this is a significant update for the public at least in knowing what was going on and what has been going on in the search for Nancy Guthrie, a case that they do tell us remains open than one they are investigating the one to give you those critical updates, But we always appreciate you spending some time with us. My dear Amy Robot com T J. Holmes will talk soon
Speaker 1: Hey, folks, it is Tuesday, June twenty third, and Nancy Guthrie died shortly after she was kidnapped. That is according to information from the Ransom Notes, information that has not been released to the public until now. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Let me give the caveat. This is all according Robes to several media outlets coming from several media sources, excuse me, several law enforcement sources, and Robes some of these outlets also have seen the notes themselves. So this information we're getting now, Robes is pretty jarn.
00:00:40
Speaker 2: It's jarring, and it's legitimate, and it makes sense because if you go back and you start remembering how this all unfolded, there was a real urgency, I mean an immediate sense of urgency. We knew that Nancy Guthrie had medicine, that she needed life saving medicine, She had medice, and she needed to alleviate pain. And there was a real concern. Remember p mac County Sheriff saying we've got to find her in the next twenty four hours. It's crucial. And then all of a sudden it didn't feel as immediate. In the days that followed. It was still intense, it was still urgent, but there was a sense just hearing from the Guthrie family that there might have been some sort of a shift.
00:01:21
Speaker 3: And now this makes sense.
00:01:23
Speaker 1: This does help us piece together robes a lot of what we in the public were not aware of, but they certainly knew what was going on behind the scenes. Now we want to get you caught up here because there have been some competing headlines and some conflicting headlines and even some confusion about all these ransom notes that we'll get into. But the bottom line is we are getting information and details from these notes that we are seeing and hearing for the first time the claims now in the robes of confusion comes we remember that was confusion initially, ransom notes coming. TMZ seems to be getting a new ransom note every hour that they're explaining that they've gotten. And then there was another set of ransom notes that other outlets got, in particular a Tucson television station. So this is what we're talking about kind of competing claims right now about two different sets of notes. But let's start rolled to what we're talking about with the note at least that the media outlets got, in particular the Tucson television station.
00:02:19
Speaker 2: Yes, so there was a first note that they got pretty quickly on that demanded millions of dollars in ransom, and so there were instructions.
00:02:28
Speaker 3: They were very specific.
00:02:31
Speaker 2: And this is one that the FEDS did deem was they believed a credible ransom note from the kidnappers. But then this second note they got, that's the one we're talking about. This is the one that's making headlines, that said basically that Nancy Guthrie died shortly after she was abducted, and that the kidnappers didn't mean to kill her. So either she died in some way from the abduction itself or shortly thereafter, maybe because she didn't have her meds. But when they said they didn't mean to kill her, they didn't say they didn't kill her.
00:03:10
Speaker 3: I've only seen the phrase they didn't mean to kill her.
00:03:12
Speaker 2: So it still sounds like she died at their hands in some way, shape or form.
00:03:16
Speaker 1: And again, at this point we're left to try to piece together now ROMs with some of these messages what might have happened to her, because the bottom line is we still don't know. We still don't know where she is, who took her why, I guess is because of money. But this has been an incredible mystery. These notes add, they feel in some blanks roads, but they still continue to add to the mystery. And yes, the authorities, the federal government, the federal officials think these notes are real romes. This is the first again the family knew this a week after she disappeared. Yeah, we are now just hearing for the first time that they were told a week after she disappeared that she was dead in her note that the federal officials are saying they believe were real.
00:04:03
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, I mean, look, we now know that the family had some sense a small sense of closure, and certainly not the news they were hoping for. But you also understand the need to have her back with them, to be able to go through the process of burying her, of mourning her, of holding a service for her, and understanding what happened. Everyone wants to know what happened, why it happened, and who did it. So, yes, there's a need for justice, There's a need for a lot of things, but it is fascinating to know that within a week of her abduction, the Guthrie family knew that there was little to no chance of her coming back alive.
00:04:41
Speaker 1: And we all saw kind of the tone change. It was a tone change in the family. It was a tone change with the local officials out there who were giving out so much information initially and then just stopped and they said, Nope, we're only going to be doing a press conference if we feel we need to. There was an urgency that went away and rose. The Guthrie fan had put out I think at least one, maybe two messages on social media before they got this second note. Again, we didn't know at the time, but they got this second note that said that Nancy Guthrie was dead. And then on February seventh, Savannah Guthrie and our siblings went on and made this statement and wrote, now this makes a whole lot more sense.
00:05:19
Speaker 2: Yes, they said, we received your message, and we understand. We beg you now to return our mother to us so that we can celebrate with her.
00:05:27
Speaker 3: This is the only way we will have peace.
00:05:29
Speaker 2: This is very valuable to us, and we will pay I remember this one because it was such a shift and it sounded like, Okay, they're communicating in some other language about something we don't know about that they clearly understand and are trying to offer a response to. So now knowing that the message was that Nancy Guthrie had died, this what Savannah said and what they were asking for makes so much more sense.
00:05:57
Speaker 1: And they can't so Brokee, we as we say, we think about how impressed we were with Savannah Guthrie in particular and her whole family and how they kept it together and how she's gone back to work. Robes, we are hearing now that all this was going on, and a week after her mom disappeared, they might have had a little more understanding in Robes, I guess resigned to the fact that she was dead already. Yeah, that early on in this whole process, while the rest of us, the rest of the world hoping.
00:06:30
Speaker 3: That she might still be alive.
00:06:32
Speaker 2: Yet that's wild to me that they knew within pretty much a week, and we had a month and two months and we're over four months now and we're just now finding out. I also think it's interesting, look and it makes total sense that the FBI and certainly the Guthrie family would have asked as well that these media and specifically the Tucson television station asked them to keep all of that information private. Think about that an entire newsroom knew that the contents that that's second ransom note clearly stated that Nancy Guthrie was dead and it never once got out.
00:07:06
Speaker 1: And give them credit. I know media gets reputation, reporters just going after chasing a lead, chasing a headline, you want to get a scoop. But Robes, We've been a part of organizations that have done this over the years. This is one that they do take very seriously and take it as a public duty. And Robes, this is just being a good human.
00:07:26
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, you don't want to do anything to undermine the investigation. And again, yes, I think that's very fair to say. Most people would not assume. I think maybe they'd think the worst of journalists, investigative journalists trying to get the scoop, trying to get the lead, trying to be the first to report something.
00:07:41
Speaker 3: Look, I do think almost.
00:07:43
Speaker 2: The majority of journalists are good people who actually have a desire to inform and to help folks and to provide a service, and not to undermine an investigation or to do anything that could bring harm to someone. And so with that in mind, obviously they kept it to themselves.
00:08:01
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, here we are. It was this June twenty twenty third. Yeah, they've been sitting on this since the first of February, So good on them for doing that. Now let's go to the other thing. The other part of the story, and the part that was making a lot of headlines yesterday, is that Harvey Levin over at TMZ was reporting something very different. He was talking about and almost knocking down some claims because for some reason, people were associating maybe what we're hearing about the notes from the Tucson TV stations to the notes that TMZ got. It sounds like robes to me, before we get into this, two totally different camps were sending notes to different media outlets, So which one's the real when which one's not?
00:08:42
Speaker 3: It sounds like from what see if you and I are on the same page.
00:08:45
Speaker 2: Because we haven't discussed this beforehand, but it sounded to me like the FEDS and the police are all saying that the notes that were given to the Tucson television station were from the kidnappers, were from the abductors.
00:08:57
Speaker 3: But it appears that.
00:08:58
Speaker 2: The notes that tm was receiving was from somebody associated with the kidnappers or who knew of the kidnapping. So it was someone with information who was close enough in this inner circle, if not a part of the kidnapping ring, but was trying to get information as to her whereabouts to TMZ but maybe wasn't in that inner circle, but had knowledge.
00:09:22
Speaker 1: Had knowledge, didn't seem to be a participant robe but this drove us crazy throughout. This was the one that was asking for one hundred thousand in bitcoin. This was the one who claimed to know where Nancy Guthrie was, to know where the kidnappers were, and that was pretty I mean, I know everybody looks out for themselves and whatnot, but that's pretty crappy to know to have the information that can give relief to this family. That was yes, so who knows?
00:09:46
Speaker 2: And that person who was writing kept saying that they were concerned that they would be arrested, that they would be charged with the kidnapping.
00:09:53
Speaker 3: That they would somehow be associated with the crime.
00:09:55
Speaker 2: And so because of that fear of that, in addition to retro u shin from the kidnappers themselves, he claimed, I say he but this person who was writing claimed that they needed this money to go underground, to go into hiding, because their life would be in peril if they gave this information.
00:10:14
Speaker 1: So Harvey Levin over at TMZ is essentially saying authorities thought those notes could have been authentic to so even if it was not a kidnapper, they believe they were talking to somebody who did possibly have information. But he said Ropes, the notes that came to him started was saying that Guthrie was scared but okay, did not mention that she had died. But there was a first and a second note that use similar language robes that suggests two very different things. The first one saying time is of the essence, that essentially suggests clock is ticking, maybe she's not doing well. We need to wrap this up.
00:10:53
Speaker 2: Yes, and that is in line with what you would expect for a kidnapping for ransom. That yes, they'd want to get in and out. They don't want to keep an eighty four year old woman and they just want their money. So yes, there was a sense of urgency. Time is of the essence. But in the second noe, this is where Harvey Levin and this does jibe exactly with what we are hearing from the FEDS with the kidnappers. Ransom notes time is no longer of the essence, and Harvey Levin points out, look, why would time no longer be of the essence? That would only indicate one thing that Nancy Guthrie was no longer alive.
00:11:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there is no hurry, And if you're trying to get money, you don't want the person you're trying to get money from to think that there's nothing to pay for anymore. So rope that kind of just common sensically. I guess we could go on board with that, but we don't know for sure. But ropes that time is no longer of the essence.
00:11:46
Speaker 2: What I'm curious about though, just obviously I don't know, and no one can get into the heads of the kidnappers. But if you're demanding money for someone to be returned alive, that person then dies and the family who you want wanted money from, who you know has money because you know who they are. If they're then offering money for just the whereabouts of the body, why would you not go ahead and do that? Now you can just totally back away. I know there could be forensic evidence, etc. But why not go ahead and give them that for the money.
00:12:18
Speaker 1: Who knows what's going on? Ay, And we talked about this before, Robes, and you were pointing out several pointed out, I mean, yeah, they might be under threat of some kind. They might legitimately be fearful of their lives if they give this information up, or if they're how close in proximity are they to the kidnappers. Possibly, It's just it's a mystery that I guess some things got cleared up, but the mystery kind of grows grows here, Roes, because there was suspicion. I think someone did get arrested in southern California for a hoax.
00:12:45
Speaker 3: There was a fake note, yes, so.
00:12:47
Speaker 1: But to sit here, Roes, and to think all those notes that were going around were real, were real, all the I mean, Harvey said they got a dozen plus emails, that's right wild to think it's all and given all the modern technology, all the investigative techniques and how they're able to track folks down, to think we have dozens of correspondents from legit people involved in this and we can't find.
00:13:13
Speaker 2: Them, can't figure out who they are, where they are, and how many people are involved.
00:13:19
Speaker 1: Well, stay here, folks. TMZ had more to offer in this case, including an offer they made to pay the ransom. Why didn't they, Well, the FBI wasn't crazy about the idea.
00:13:34
Speaker 2: Stare Welcome back everyone to this episode of Amy and TJ, where we are getting the first real solid piece of information in the Nancy Guthrie abduction case that we've had since the beginning.
00:13:57
Speaker 3: And look, she went missing.
00:13:59
Speaker 2: February first, first, correct, Thus, she was last seen the night before when her son in law dropped her off after an evening meal with her daughter and poof. It was just and it still remains a mystery as to where she is and who abducted her. But we are learning that the FEDS and the Guthrie family, it appears, believe that Nancy Guthrie is dead and that they knew it a week into her abduction.
00:14:25
Speaker 1: That's I think that's a headline here for me for the story Robes that they were it was February seven she put that note out. Yeah, that was in the same week her mom disappeared, reported missing on February first. And as we were holding out hope, as people were holding out hope, and they that the tone changed roles that you're right when she said we will pay. It's important for us to come back and be able to celebrate her. We heard, yes, right, you could piece it together there, but to know that they got a note that said your mom is dead.
00:14:57
Speaker 2: That's tough, that's gutting, and look, TMZ went on to say, this was really interesting. They actually said that they want and wanted to do, probably still do and probably will do a documentary because this was of such an unusual twist to have TMZ and local television stations receiving ransom notes and this big mystery. So they were interested in doing a documentary and to do so, they were interested in paying this bitcoin to this guy who has been content guy whoever this person is who has been reaching out to them with these notes saying they know where Nancy Guthrie is, and they just thought, hey, let's check. We don't want to do anything to upset the investigation or to upset the Guthrie family, so they checked in first with the FBI.
00:15:49
Speaker 1: And according to TMZ, FBI just thought that was interesting, so really didn't give them guidance on what they should do. TMZ, for their part, roles, they said they that's paying and see what happens. What if they did? What if a news outlet paid the ransom and got the information that led to Nancy Guthrie? Holy hell? Could you imagine what that story would be?
00:16:15
Speaker 3: I can't And would that be okay?
00:16:17
Speaker 2: Would that be wrong? Would that be right? Would that be illegal? I don't even know.
00:16:21
Speaker 1: Uh, you know what. It's a private entity. Can they do what they want to do? Now? I guess the authorities could argue that they're in some way impeding the investigation or interfering with the investigation. Sure, you got to get the okay, but it's one of those things rope. Sometimes people pay ransoms and they do get what they pay the ransom for. And that might have been one of those cases. But to think the what ifs? Right, if that many months ago, if that long ago, paying fifteen it was initially fifty thousand in bitcoin and it went up to one hundred.
00:16:50
Speaker 3: One hundred thousand or something like.
00:16:52
Speaker 1: That happens if you pay?
00:16:53
Speaker 3: Who knows.
00:16:53
Speaker 1: That's just an interesting fact in a detail there. But they offered. FBI didn't give them an okay, and they said they've now he used the word the FBI is now ghosts ghosting us.
00:17:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, he said that the FBI, and it was funny though he was trying not to upset them. He said, but we believe that they still are actively investigating. They want to see this come to a closure. They want to see answers for the Guthrie family. But yeah, he said, they've called them at least a dozen times or a half a dozen times. I don't know what the number was, he said, but multiple times. And the FBI is now no longer returning their phone calls. And he said beforehand they were returning their phone calls immediately.
00:17:29
Speaker 1: He should just call Cash Battel. Cash Hotel is clearly interested in this case.
00:17:34
Speaker 2: He should just slide into Cash Betel's DMS. I bet you that would work.
00:17:37
Speaker 1: Okay, you said that kind of jokingly, but yeah, I think it might. But really, this is I mean, give them some guy. I mean, TMZ has been central and actually been a good partner when you argue in this investigation with the FBI. They you could argue even more so than a CNN or a Tucson TV station might have had the wherewithal to say, the hell with it, We're gonna put everything we got out there and wouldn't give a damn given them credit on this one.
00:18:03
Speaker 2: I certainly will and they obviously look, the Guthrie family knows more than anyone now, Savannah being in the media and now being a victim to this entire situation. It's important to have these types of stories stay headline, stay in the headlines, because that gets people talking, that gets people calling in tips, and that could lead eventually to them.
00:18:24
Speaker 3: Finding their mothers.
00:18:25
Speaker 2: So I'm sure Savannah is grateful to the coverage and TMZ was respectful. Yes they were breaking news, and yes they were following up on tips, but they were keeping this story alive in a lot of ways.
00:18:36
Speaker 1: And continue to do so now. So yes, we haven't had significant we haven't had major update to at least the investigation, but this is a significant update for the public at least in knowing what was going on and what has been going on in the search for Nancy Guthrie, a case that they do tell us remains open than one they are investigating the one to give you those critical updates, But we always appreciate you spending some time with us. My dear Amy Robot com T J. Holmes will talk soon