Aug. 15, 2026
Luigi Mangione Pleads Guilty, Details Motive For Murder
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RSS Feed It was a stunning day in federal court as 28 year old Luigi Mangione pleaded guilty to federal charges of stalking resulting in death of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson. Mangione was emotionless as he described how and why he murdered Thompson, detailing years of back pain and frustration with the insurance industry. It’s unclear now what will happen to the New York State murder charge against Magnione, his trial set to start on Sept 8th.
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00:00:12
Speaker 1: Hey, the folks, it is Saturday, August fifteenth, and after pleading not guilty to all charges and has stayed in federal case, and after a year and a half of going in and out of state in federal court dealing with hearing after hearing and fighting the charges, Luigi Mangioni has pleaded guilty. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ Robes. The last couple of days, it was kind of bubbling up that this was a possibility.
00:00:40
Speaker 2: Still still stunned by this.
00:00:42
Speaker 3: I was just going to say it was still remarkable, and yes, stunning, that is the right word to describe what it was like to see and to read about Luigi Mangione fully admitting guilt to what we all saw there in midtown hadn't captured on surveillance video. But still to hear him admit it, you don't get that, and frankly, victims' families don't get that very often.
00:01:09
Speaker 1: Roads he's pleading not guilty, We're all curious what argument is he going to make in court when there is a video of the crime that's everywhere. The evidence is as close to insurmountable as you're going to get in a case like this, so we were all curious. But he was fighting, even had some victories in some of these hearings, Roads, with some things getting thrown out. Hell, he even had some murder charges federally dismissed, so it looked like he was putting up a decent fight with some damn good lawyers.
00:01:39
Speaker 3: Yes, he has the best lawyers in the business, and he, yes, at one point was facing the possibility of the death penalty. But the federal case and the charges that he pleaded guilty to, interestingly enough, technically neither one of them were murder charges, which is pretty significant. So yes, his lawyers made significant headway in terms of getting some of those charges reduced thrown out, and yet he still faces life behind bars.
00:02:05
Speaker 1: Let's get your caught off, folks, on what exactly happened this week. There was not was not a scheduled hearing for Friday, at least that's how the week started. But the attorneys, as the judge in the federal case, they asked, Roads, can we have a conference on Friday? So that got everybody kind of buzz who.
00:02:22
Speaker 3: Yes, a joint request, Yes, the prosecution and the defense. You rarely see a joint petition filed. When you've got some case as significant as this, or truly any criminal case, they usually can't agree on anything.
00:02:35
Speaker 2: And what's the word that was everywhere was hurriedly or hastily.
00:02:38
Speaker 3: Hurriedly this is what I saw everywhere, hurriedly put together this request. And that's why everyone began to put the pieces of the puzzle together and thought, surely there must be some sort of plea deal even that has been struck between the two.
00:02:53
Speaker 2: So that was and that makes sense.
00:02:55
Speaker 1: And you add to this road to people piecing this together, and both sides weren't talking, of course, but robes. There was word that Brian Thompson's family was going to be in the courtroom.
00:03:05
Speaker 2: That stood out to a lot of.
00:03:06
Speaker 3: Folks absolutely, and they were there to hear what Luigi Mangioni had to say.
00:03:11
Speaker 4: I can't even imagine.
00:03:13
Speaker 3: This was December of twenty twenty four, this crime where Brian Thompson was shot in the middle of a Manhattan street with a sidewalk as he was walking into a business conference, just being thrust into that sort of trauma in front of the world. And now to sit there in this courtroom and hear this young man admit what he did and why he did it.
00:03:36
Speaker 2: So, like you just said, es, he's going to admit to it.
00:03:38
Speaker 1: So with the past couple of days of both sides asking for this conference, like you just said, and everybody was throwing around plea.
00:03:48
Speaker 2: Deal, that is not what this was. It was a plea but there was no deal apparently, Yeah.
00:03:54
Speaker 4: And they made that very clear.
00:03:56
Speaker 3: The prosecutors, as we pointed out, did not speak, but as they were going into the courtroom, they were still telling reporters there is no plea deal. There is no plea deal, and they wanted that to be very clear that they're not offering him something in exchange for this guilty please. So there are a lot of questions as to why he chose this route. Earlier in the summer we heard him potentially going to put up a insanity defense. So there have been a lot of ups and downs, and this case has been surprising from the get go.
00:04:27
Speaker 1: So there's no plea, right, and he goes into court to plead guilty. Now the question will be, and we will answer it here, why he would do this? Now there does seem to be a clear answer to that, but it's not clear if it's going to.
00:04:47
Speaker 2: Pay off for him. We will explain.
00:04:50
Speaker 1: But in the courtroom yesterday we just mentioned Brian Thompson's family, it's something rope. They have to sit in the front row right feet away from this guy. I don't know what that feels like. We see this plenty of times in criminal case. I just it's remarkable to see.
00:05:02
Speaker 3: The energy that would be emitting from you towards him, just to be in the same room, to be breathing the same air, and yes, to just be a rowe back from where Luigi Mangioni is. That had to be an unforgettable and gutting situation.
00:05:22
Speaker 1: Maggioni, who was in the courtroom in a tan prison outfit, white T shirt underneath, and they say he was shackled.
00:05:28
Speaker 2: I saw this, Robes.
00:05:29
Speaker 1: He was shackled behind his back, his hands were behind his yack. So that again federal court, they don't mess around too much. But yes, that's how he came into court. It started with the defense saying to the judge that their client is prepared to plead guilty to the indictment at this time, and Robes.
00:05:45
Speaker 2: This is where well, at least those in.
00:05:48
Speaker 1: The courtroom hearing Mangioni hearing his voice and hearing him explain things for the first time, so he had to be asked a series of questions for the judge to just know he's a sound mind and he was able to make this decision on his own. Robes, he asked them a series of questions and Mangioni is required because he's pleading guilty, to tell the truth about the incident and robes this. I mean, this was the drama of the day. After a year and a half and of us seeing that video, we heard from the guy who pulled the trigger about why he did this and to certain degree, how he did this.
00:06:21
Speaker 4: Yes, it was pretty remarkable.
00:06:22
Speaker 3: He talked about how he had years of severe back pain and had spent those years trying to fight insurance companies the healthcare industry to get the treatment he needed, the pain relief he needed, and the frustrations he felt from that experience led him to come up with this plan, and I thought it was pretty interesting. He actually posed as an investor of the United Healthcare Leadership. He emailed them so he could get the details of their conference so he would know where to be lying in wait to do what he.
00:06:57
Speaker 4: Intended to do. I mean, this is a smart kid.
00:07:00
Speaker 3: He's an Ivy League educated kid, and he planned this out meticulously, but it came from a place of pain.
00:07:07
Speaker 1: And again, there were some suggestions about this right during when the crime did happen and after he was arrested, that he had some problem, yes with the health care industry, and this was him exacting revenge on it.
00:07:18
Speaker 2: And that's why a lot it's weird to say.
00:07:20
Speaker 1: A murderer gained popularity, but a lot of people robes do have problem with the health care industry and jumped on and became supporters of his because of that.
00:07:31
Speaker 3: Yes, one of them actually shouted out America Loves Luigi to Brian Thompson's family as they were leaving court.
00:07:38
Speaker 4: I mean, that's how passionate some of these people are. They're called what is it, Manginistas or something like that. It's so weird.
00:07:46
Speaker 3: It's he's some pop stars, some Taylor's Swift adjacent, just hero or something among this group of people who come out. They say it was a smaller crowd yesterday, which is interesting outside the federal courthouse, but he he brings a crowd of folks to cheer him on at all of these court hearings. It really is hard to imagine people celebrating this man who took a life, a father, a husband, and you could see the pain on his wife's face.
00:08:19
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily I would love to get it some psychologists to explain this type of fandom. Are they all just just it's I don't know, there's no reason to celebrate, to cheer, to root forward. Now, everybody's deserving of a robust defense, sure, but that's not what we're talking about. But to celebrate as if we're celebrating him for what he did, to clap, to applaud, to be a fan of someone specifically because they murdered somebody who was representing an industry you don't like. It's just that there's no discussion in there, no argument to be made. There's no debate we should have no regarding that.
00:08:57
Speaker 4: Absolutely not.
00:08:58
Speaker 3: There are plenty of other methods in which you can voice you were concerned, try to make change in the industry. Again, a smart kid, there were plenty of things he could do, including running for office and making changes. I mean, there are things that people can do other than destroy someone's entire family.
00:09:15
Speaker 2: So we did hear from Mangioni.
00:09:16
Speaker 1: At at some point this seems I couldn't tell ROSEI there's a script he was reading from, but he.
00:09:23
Speaker 2: I don't know.
00:09:24
Speaker 1: Some of the language in the way he said it seemed a little odd, but maybe he had to read a particular script trying to remember it.
00:09:29
Speaker 2: Even I don't know.
00:09:30
Speaker 3: It seemed very You know when you have a legal document and you know a lawyer, like, whatever your statement is, it's been thoroughly lawyered. That's what this seemed like to me, a thoroughly lawyered statement.
00:09:43
Speaker 2: So this was him in the courtroom. Quote.
00:09:45
Speaker 1: This is from Mangioni again. Quote on the morning of December fourth, twenty twenty four, I shot mister Thompson in Manhattan and he died. When I did so, I understood that my actions could place him in fear of death or serious bodily and I knew what I was doing was illegal. So and there it is ropes. After all this we've been waiting a year and a half, like what defense is there for? What we see you on camera?
00:10:12
Speaker 2: What is the defense?
00:10:13
Speaker 1: But to have him say it out loud, I did it, Yep, I was responsible, and I knew what I was doing was wrong, yep.
00:10:19
Speaker 4: I mean, look it is.
00:10:22
Speaker 3: I mean it's a relief I would imagine for Thompson's family and certainly for federal prosecutors, even that he stood there in front of a judge, sworn in under oath and it fully admitted this crime and explained why he did it. Think about how many victims' families get that kind of And I hate to use the word closure, because it's never over it. There's never full closure for someone who loses someone that young in their life.
00:10:48
Speaker 4: I mean, it's just an awful story.
00:10:50
Speaker 3: But most most families don't get that, and there is some sort of there has to be some sort of emotional satisfaction or it allows certain healing to begin when you know someone's admitted the crime, explained why they committed the crime.
00:11:05
Speaker 4: He didn't apologize for it, but so rarely do you get the why.
00:11:10
Speaker 1: You know, that's a good note to bring up Robes. He didn't apologize for it. Dan By all accounts, he was not remorseful in the least bit.
00:11:18
Speaker 4: Unemotional is how he was described.
00:11:19
Speaker 1: He never showed an ounce of remorse for what he did. How does that play into sentencing? How does that play into closure for the family, don't know.
00:11:29
Speaker 3: It usually does play into sentencing, though judges usually do take that into consideration, and he'll have another opportunity to speak when he is sentenced, and maybe then, maybe then we would see.
00:11:39
Speaker 4: Or hear some sort of remorse. Don't know and don't know how sincere it would be.
00:11:43
Speaker 1: So after fighting for a year and a half, why do this now? It's legal strategy. We're told this is his federal case. These were two stalking convictions because the previous charge having to do with murder in the federal case was actually dismissed some months ago. Has to do with the legal precedent, has to do with the Supreme Court President, the whole bunch of back and forth. Even if I did fully understand it, I wouldn't be able to fully explain it. So what I'm saying is there was a reason, a technical legal, technical reason that that had to be dismissed or robes. He just pleaded guilty to two charges, neither one includes murder. It seems counterintuitive, like, wait a minute, he murdered the guy he admitted to murdering, so why isn't he pleading guilty to a charge of murder.
00:12:26
Speaker 3: Right, it's stalking resulting in death basically, and it still carries a life a maximum life sentence.
00:12:34
Speaker 4: He could serve less than life, that is true.
00:12:37
Speaker 3: And when you have a federal sentence, you serve eighty five percent.
00:12:41
Speaker 4: Of it period. There is no.
00:12:44
Speaker 3: Parole or you get out early for good behavior. None of that happens in federal prisons.
00:12:50
Speaker 4: But he does.
00:12:51
Speaker 3: And he could serve less than life if he ended up with just the federal charges and he only served eighty five percent of that sentence.
00:13:00
Speaker 1: There's your answer, folks. So why do this now? Why plead guilty now? Because Robes, this is the possibility of keeping him out of prison for the rest of his life, because there is a pretty tough statute in the state of New York that doesn't allow for double jeopardy and Robes it's interesting here. Yes, it's stalking, it's not murder. The state charge is a murder charge. But the way the statute in New York is written, Robes, it says that you can't be charged for the same incident and not just doesn't have to be the exact same charges exactly.
00:13:33
Speaker 3: And so it's been that that is their long game, that it seems he'd rather be in a federal prison than actually looked it up, it said, federal prisons are considered safer and better funded than state prisons. They have fewer violent offenders and better programs. The drawback for a federal prison is that you do have to serve eighty five percent of your sentence. But look, if you're already looking at an extent sentence and nearly most of your life, you'd rather be in a better funded facility that has fewer violent criminals. So he's literally trying to choose where he spends he This was them knowing and acknowledging that they did not actually have a snowball's chance in hell of getting him on guilty police, so let's just pick the better prison system to be in, federal versus state.
00:14:24
Speaker 4: That does seem like what their choice was.
00:14:26
Speaker 1: Sick crazy, you got bad options. If those are your options, ye, which prison do you want? I'll take the federal. Better be in an embassy suitees than a motel six. Are his choices.
00:14:36
Speaker 3: Exactly exactly, and Mangioni's attorneys this was in a statement correct after explaining basically why they believe this state trial should not proceed, he said. They say he's been unfairly treated since the outset in every way, two simultaneous prosecutions in two jurisdictions, who are trying to punish him twice for his exact conduct. New York law does not permit a person to be prosecuted and punished twice for the exact same crime under a statute that covers successive prosecutions. It's also known as the double jeopardy law. Today's guilty plea triggers this statute. And we just filed our motion in state court explaining why the state charges must be dismissed under New York's double jeopardy protections.
00:15:22
Speaker 1: They make it clear what they're doing here. This is automatic. So robes What if what if this judge, this federal judge doesn't give him life in prison? What could he give him for the stalking charges?
00:15:36
Speaker 2: Five?
00:15:36
Speaker 4: Twenty five? He could? I mean, he could give him twenty five, He could give him thirty. He knows the world is watching.
00:15:41
Speaker 3: He also knows if the state drops his case or is forced to drop its case, that this will be his only punish This is.
00:15:48
Speaker 1: It, This is it, and we should rose because this state trial is supposed to be happening in a matter of weeks, right September eighth. I think I have it right, So Robes, there needs to be movement on what's going to happen here before September eighth. So after a year and a half of hearing after hearing after hearing, we have like a three week sprint to get this case resolved completely with MAGGIONI ropes, how could the judge there's no way he's gonna give him twenty five what's eighty five percent of twenty five?
00:16:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's not anywhere near enough? And I don't think anybody would accept that. But I was even thinking, how do you quantify life?
00:16:24
Speaker 4: Is that fifty years?
00:16:25
Speaker 3: He's twenty eight, So what is that fifty years? And then what's eighty five percent of fifty years?
00:16:30
Speaker 1: I don't think the family or many people will accept anything short of him spending the rest of his life in prison.
00:16:35
Speaker 2: Will that?
00:16:36
Speaker 4: I don't think so.
00:16:37
Speaker 3: I think most everyone agrees he should be in prison for.
00:16:40
Speaker 4: Life, But yeah, what is a life term? What is that equal to in years?
00:16:43
Speaker 2: In years? For god, that's twenty eight.
00:16:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, to guarantee that he'll still end up behind that this is going to be fascinating for the next couple of weeks. Here we did here, of course, we just let you hear from Maggioni's attorneys. We also heard from the district attorney, who is none too pleased that his case might be getting highjacked. We'll let you hear that. Also, we'll let you hear from the family. Brian Thompson's family also put out a statement to express how they felt about what we've seen in this case in the past twenty four hours. All right, folks, we continue here on this Saturday on Amy and TJ have several developing stories. We usually get up in the morning robes and we like to do something a little lighter, a little more fun. But there are a couple of stories that have been bubbling this week. We're talking about Mangioni now with his case, but also there were two other significant stories with significant updates that we're going to be getting into on our morning feed that you can look for right after this episode. What having to do robes with that Cambridge professor who is at the center of plagiarism charges. He is now dead been found dead in London. We're going to get into that and also another story out Texas. This one's fascinating to me, the legal back and forth over a surrogate who didn't want to have an abortion at the request of the parents.
00:18:09
Speaker 3: Yes, and now that baby has been born and there are plenty of legal filings flying. But yes, it's forcing a lot of well certainly the state of Texas to make some decisions because there is plenty of legal action going on because yes, the biological parents didn't even want the child to exist.
00:18:29
Speaker 1: So yes, those were significant, very buzzy stories. This week, we'll get the updates on both of those as well. Again those episodes of being our feed right after this one.
00:18:38
Speaker 2: But ropes.
00:18:38
Speaker 1: Getting back to Mangioni the DA as you know, the state and the Feds have been arguing over who gets this guy first, and it looks like the state was going to via trial, but now the Feds have with the plea.
00:18:50
Speaker 3: And there are so many angry folks, including the judge who it seems was overseeing the staycase. He basically said that the Feds renigged on their agreement basically because the state had done all the work and was prepared and was ready to go, and it had already been agreed that they were going to try their case first.
00:19:07
Speaker 2: But the guy wants the plete we're supposed to do.
00:19:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, but obviously there was negotiations going on behind.
00:19:12
Speaker 2: Don't let him plead.
00:19:13
Speaker 4: What is the option there exactly? But yes, feathers are ruffled, so to speak. The DA put out this statement.
00:19:20
Speaker 3: Since December twenty twenty four, the Manhattan DA's office has been tirelessly preparing to pursue a trial conviction in New York State Supreme Court for the alleged cold blooded murder of Brian Thompson. We are encouraged that mister Thompson's family received a measure of accountability today. While federal sentencing is pending, we are prepared to litigate the defense motions. The Manhattan's DA office remains committed to seeking justice for mister Thompson and his family.
00:19:48
Speaker 2: Or is that line in there? Federal sentence is.
00:19:51
Speaker 4: A measure of accountability.
00:19:53
Speaker 2: A measure.
00:19:53
Speaker 1: What they're saying is that ain't good enough. So that's where we're coming in.
00:19:58
Speaker 3: We want him convicted of the murder. That's exactly what they're saying.
00:20:01
Speaker 1: The family did put out a statement as well, saying that the guilty plea marks an important step toward justice for Brian and for our family. Nothing will use the pain of losing him. We're grateful for the federal justice system holding him responsible for this heinous act. Now we look to the court to ensure that sentencing reflects the severity of this crime. We remain mindful that additional proceedings in New York and Pennsylvania are still to come, and we continue to seek the justice Brian deserves.
00:20:26
Speaker 2: Robes. It sounds like they left room to be open for the state case to go away.
00:20:33
Speaker 4: Yes, because they understand that it very likely might.
00:20:35
Speaker 3: I'm sure they have been prepared for the possibility that this is it and he's going to prison for the rest of his life. It's probably annoying that he in a way, if this ends up being his only proceeding and the state charges go away, it is probably annoying to the family to think he kind of in a way got to manipulate or got to choose what prison system he's in. Look, I mean, you have less violent criminals in federal prison.
00:21:02
Speaker 4: It's going to be a better experience for him, and.
00:21:04
Speaker 3: That might be a little annoying that he got to in a way choose by quickly pleading to the federal case ahead of the state trial.
00:21:13
Speaker 2: What's acceptable ultimately to the family.
00:21:16
Speaker 1: I suppose Robes would just be life knowing he's not going to get out of prison. But there's that line in there saying we look to the court now to ensure sentencing reflects the severity of the crime. That makes it sound to me Robes is we don't care that much about the murder conviction. We just want to make sure whatever sentence he gets reflects what he did. And that makes sense. And that makes sense. But I mean, they always consult with families prosecutors do I wonder do they want to go sit through a state trial?
00:21:48
Speaker 4: Yeah? I don't know. I don't know.
00:21:50
Speaker 3: Everyone's different. If you have the if it actually would make you feel better to see it litigated and to see everything take place, does that give you some sense of I don't know, you're a part of the process where you're getting justice.
00:22:05
Speaker 4: For your loved one. Or is it better to just not have to go through that.
00:22:08
Speaker 1: You knew he already is going to prison for the rest of his life. Do you want to go sit in state court every day for several months? Walking past those protesters walking past his supporters doing all that. Is it that important to you that on the record it says murder conviction for me?
00:22:25
Speaker 3: Anybody wouldn't for me, It wouldn't be but it And you don't know, I don't know until you go through it, until you've lost your husband, your children's father, you don't know your son.
00:22:37
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's hard to say.
00:22:38
Speaker 1: Well, the sentencing we speak of will happen on December eighteenth, at least that's when it's scheduled. And we do not know, folks, what is going to happen in the state case. Is a state trial going to go forward? Are these charges going to get dropped? We don't know, But answers have to come. They have to come soon because that state trial is scheduled for September the eighth and rope. They already announced that the jury was supposed to be anonymous.
00:22:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, so things are in motion.
00:23:02
Speaker 4: We shall see, all right, folks.
00:23:03
Speaker 1: Just wanted to give you that update again. Two other episodes you'll see this morning on our feed having to do with those other major stories that are bubbling as well, So look for those. We appreciate just always spending some time with us on TJ on behalf of my dear Emmy Roebak.
00:23:15
Speaker 2: We'll talk to You'll soon
Speaker 1: Hey, the folks, it is Saturday, August fifteenth, and after pleading not guilty to all charges and has stayed in federal case, and after a year and a half of going in and out of state in federal court dealing with hearing after hearing and fighting the charges, Luigi Mangioni has pleaded guilty. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ Robes. The last couple of days, it was kind of bubbling up that this was a possibility.
00:00:40
Speaker 2: Still still stunned by this.
00:00:42
Speaker 3: I was just going to say it was still remarkable, and yes, stunning, that is the right word to describe what it was like to see and to read about Luigi Mangione fully admitting guilt to what we all saw there in midtown hadn't captured on surveillance video. But still to hear him admit it, you don't get that, and frankly, victims' families don't get that very often.
00:01:09
Speaker 1: Roads he's pleading not guilty, We're all curious what argument is he going to make in court when there is a video of the crime that's everywhere. The evidence is as close to insurmountable as you're going to get in a case like this, so we were all curious. But he was fighting, even had some victories in some of these hearings, Roads, with some things getting thrown out. Hell, he even had some murder charges federally dismissed, so it looked like he was putting up a decent fight with some damn good lawyers.
00:01:39
Speaker 3: Yes, he has the best lawyers in the business, and he, yes, at one point was facing the possibility of the death penalty. But the federal case and the charges that he pleaded guilty to, interestingly enough, technically neither one of them were murder charges, which is pretty significant. So yes, his lawyers made significant headway in terms of getting some of those charges reduced thrown out, and yet he still faces life behind bars.
00:02:05
Speaker 1: Let's get your caught off, folks, on what exactly happened this week. There was not was not a scheduled hearing for Friday, at least that's how the week started. But the attorneys, as the judge in the federal case, they asked, Roads, can we have a conference on Friday? So that got everybody kind of buzz who.
00:02:22
Speaker 3: Yes, a joint request, Yes, the prosecution and the defense. You rarely see a joint petition filed. When you've got some case as significant as this, or truly any criminal case, they usually can't agree on anything.
00:02:35
Speaker 2: And what's the word that was everywhere was hurriedly or hastily.
00:02:38
Speaker 3: Hurriedly this is what I saw everywhere, hurriedly put together this request. And that's why everyone began to put the pieces of the puzzle together and thought, surely there must be some sort of plea deal even that has been struck between the two.
00:02:53
Speaker 2: So that was and that makes sense.
00:02:55
Speaker 1: And you add to this road to people piecing this together, and both sides weren't talking, of course, but robes. There was word that Brian Thompson's family was going to be in the courtroom.
00:03:05
Speaker 2: That stood out to a lot of.
00:03:06
Speaker 3: Folks absolutely, and they were there to hear what Luigi Mangioni had to say.
00:03:11
Speaker 4: I can't even imagine.
00:03:13
Speaker 3: This was December of twenty twenty four, this crime where Brian Thompson was shot in the middle of a Manhattan street with a sidewalk as he was walking into a business conference, just being thrust into that sort of trauma in front of the world. And now to sit there in this courtroom and hear this young man admit what he did and why he did it.
00:03:36
Speaker 2: So, like you just said, es, he's going to admit to it.
00:03:38
Speaker 1: So with the past couple of days of both sides asking for this conference, like you just said, and everybody was throwing around plea.
00:03:48
Speaker 2: Deal, that is not what this was. It was a plea but there was no deal apparently, Yeah.
00:03:54
Speaker 4: And they made that very clear.
00:03:56
Speaker 3: The prosecutors, as we pointed out, did not speak, but as they were going into the courtroom, they were still telling reporters there is no plea deal. There is no plea deal, and they wanted that to be very clear that they're not offering him something in exchange for this guilty please. So there are a lot of questions as to why he chose this route. Earlier in the summer we heard him potentially going to put up a insanity defense. So there have been a lot of ups and downs, and this case has been surprising from the get go.
00:04:27
Speaker 1: So there's no plea, right, and he goes into court to plead guilty. Now the question will be, and we will answer it here, why he would do this? Now there does seem to be a clear answer to that, but it's not clear if it's going to.
00:04:47
Speaker 2: Pay off for him. We will explain.
00:04:50
Speaker 1: But in the courtroom yesterday we just mentioned Brian Thompson's family, it's something rope. They have to sit in the front row right feet away from this guy. I don't know what that feels like. We see this plenty of times in criminal case. I just it's remarkable to see.
00:05:02
Speaker 3: The energy that would be emitting from you towards him, just to be in the same room, to be breathing the same air, and yes, to just be a rowe back from where Luigi Mangioni is. That had to be an unforgettable and gutting situation.
00:05:22
Speaker 1: Maggioni, who was in the courtroom in a tan prison outfit, white T shirt underneath, and they say he was shackled.
00:05:28
Speaker 2: I saw this, Robes.
00:05:29
Speaker 1: He was shackled behind his back, his hands were behind his yack. So that again federal court, they don't mess around too much. But yes, that's how he came into court. It started with the defense saying to the judge that their client is prepared to plead guilty to the indictment at this time, and Robes.
00:05:45
Speaker 2: This is where well, at least those in.
00:05:48
Speaker 1: The courtroom hearing Mangioni hearing his voice and hearing him explain things for the first time, so he had to be asked a series of questions for the judge to just know he's a sound mind and he was able to make this decision on his own. Robes, he asked them a series of questions and Mangioni is required because he's pleading guilty, to tell the truth about the incident and robes this. I mean, this was the drama of the day. After a year and a half and of us seeing that video, we heard from the guy who pulled the trigger about why he did this and to certain degree, how he did this.
00:06:21
Speaker 4: Yes, it was pretty remarkable.
00:06:22
Speaker 3: He talked about how he had years of severe back pain and had spent those years trying to fight insurance companies the healthcare industry to get the treatment he needed, the pain relief he needed, and the frustrations he felt from that experience led him to come up with this plan, and I thought it was pretty interesting. He actually posed as an investor of the United Healthcare Leadership. He emailed them so he could get the details of their conference so he would know where to be lying in wait to do what he.
00:06:57
Speaker 4: Intended to do. I mean, this is a smart kid.
00:07:00
Speaker 3: He's an Ivy League educated kid, and he planned this out meticulously, but it came from a place of pain.
00:07:07
Speaker 1: And again, there were some suggestions about this right during when the crime did happen and after he was arrested, that he had some problem, yes with the health care industry, and this was him exacting revenge on it.
00:07:18
Speaker 2: And that's why a lot it's weird to say.
00:07:20
Speaker 1: A murderer gained popularity, but a lot of people robes do have problem with the health care industry and jumped on and became supporters of his because of that.
00:07:31
Speaker 3: Yes, one of them actually shouted out America Loves Luigi to Brian Thompson's family as they were leaving court.
00:07:38
Speaker 4: I mean, that's how passionate some of these people are. They're called what is it, Manginistas or something like that. It's so weird.
00:07:46
Speaker 3: It's he's some pop stars, some Taylor's Swift adjacent, just hero or something among this group of people who come out. They say it was a smaller crowd yesterday, which is interesting outside the federal courthouse, but he he brings a crowd of folks to cheer him on at all of these court hearings. It really is hard to imagine people celebrating this man who took a life, a father, a husband, and you could see the pain on his wife's face.
00:08:19
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily I would love to get it some psychologists to explain this type of fandom. Are they all just just it's I don't know, there's no reason to celebrate, to cheer, to root forward. Now, everybody's deserving of a robust defense, sure, but that's not what we're talking about. But to celebrate as if we're celebrating him for what he did, to clap, to applaud, to be a fan of someone specifically because they murdered somebody who was representing an industry you don't like. It's just that there's no discussion in there, no argument to be made. There's no debate we should have no regarding that.
00:08:57
Speaker 4: Absolutely not.
00:08:58
Speaker 3: There are plenty of other methods in which you can voice you were concerned, try to make change in the industry. Again, a smart kid, there were plenty of things he could do, including running for office and making changes. I mean, there are things that people can do other than destroy someone's entire family.
00:09:15
Speaker 2: So we did hear from Mangioni.
00:09:16
Speaker 1: At at some point this seems I couldn't tell ROSEI there's a script he was reading from, but he.
00:09:23
Speaker 2: I don't know.
00:09:24
Speaker 1: Some of the language in the way he said it seemed a little odd, but maybe he had to read a particular script trying to remember it.
00:09:29
Speaker 2: Even I don't know.
00:09:30
Speaker 3: It seemed very You know when you have a legal document and you know a lawyer, like, whatever your statement is, it's been thoroughly lawyered. That's what this seemed like to me, a thoroughly lawyered statement.
00:09:43
Speaker 2: So this was him in the courtroom. Quote.
00:09:45
Speaker 1: This is from Mangioni again. Quote on the morning of December fourth, twenty twenty four, I shot mister Thompson in Manhattan and he died. When I did so, I understood that my actions could place him in fear of death or serious bodily and I knew what I was doing was illegal. So and there it is ropes. After all this we've been waiting a year and a half, like what defense is there for? What we see you on camera?
00:10:12
Speaker 2: What is the defense?
00:10:13
Speaker 1: But to have him say it out loud, I did it, Yep, I was responsible, and I knew what I was doing was wrong, yep.
00:10:19
Speaker 4: I mean, look it is.
00:10:22
Speaker 3: I mean it's a relief I would imagine for Thompson's family and certainly for federal prosecutors, even that he stood there in front of a judge, sworn in under oath and it fully admitted this crime and explained why he did it. Think about how many victims' families get that kind of And I hate to use the word closure, because it's never over it. There's never full closure for someone who loses someone that young in their life.
00:10:48
Speaker 4: I mean, it's just an awful story.
00:10:50
Speaker 3: But most most families don't get that, and there is some sort of there has to be some sort of emotional satisfaction or it allows certain healing to begin when you know someone's admitted the crime, explained why they committed the crime.
00:11:05
Speaker 4: He didn't apologize for it, but so rarely do you get the why.
00:11:10
Speaker 1: You know, that's a good note to bring up Robes. He didn't apologize for it. Dan By all accounts, he was not remorseful in the least bit.
00:11:18
Speaker 4: Unemotional is how he was described.
00:11:19
Speaker 1: He never showed an ounce of remorse for what he did. How does that play into sentencing? How does that play into closure for the family, don't know.
00:11:29
Speaker 3: It usually does play into sentencing, though judges usually do take that into consideration, and he'll have another opportunity to speak when he is sentenced, and maybe then, maybe then we would see.
00:11:39
Speaker 4: Or hear some sort of remorse. Don't know and don't know how sincere it would be.
00:11:43
Speaker 1: So after fighting for a year and a half, why do this now? It's legal strategy. We're told this is his federal case. These were two stalking convictions because the previous charge having to do with murder in the federal case was actually dismissed some months ago. Has to do with the legal precedent, has to do with the Supreme Court President, the whole bunch of back and forth. Even if I did fully understand it, I wouldn't be able to fully explain it. So what I'm saying is there was a reason, a technical legal, technical reason that that had to be dismissed or robes. He just pleaded guilty to two charges, neither one includes murder. It seems counterintuitive, like, wait a minute, he murdered the guy he admitted to murdering, so why isn't he pleading guilty to a charge of murder.
00:12:26
Speaker 3: Right, it's stalking resulting in death basically, and it still carries a life a maximum life sentence.
00:12:34
Speaker 4: He could serve less than life, that is true.
00:12:37
Speaker 3: And when you have a federal sentence, you serve eighty five percent.
00:12:41
Speaker 4: Of it period. There is no.
00:12:44
Speaker 3: Parole or you get out early for good behavior. None of that happens in federal prisons.
00:12:50
Speaker 4: But he does.
00:12:51
Speaker 3: And he could serve less than life if he ended up with just the federal charges and he only served eighty five percent of that sentence.
00:13:00
Speaker 1: There's your answer, folks. So why do this now? Why plead guilty now? Because Robes, this is the possibility of keeping him out of prison for the rest of his life, because there is a pretty tough statute in the state of New York that doesn't allow for double jeopardy and Robes it's interesting here. Yes, it's stalking, it's not murder. The state charge is a murder charge. But the way the statute in New York is written, Robes, it says that you can't be charged for the same incident and not just doesn't have to be the exact same charges exactly.
00:13:33
Speaker 3: And so it's been that that is their long game, that it seems he'd rather be in a federal prison than actually looked it up, it said, federal prisons are considered safer and better funded than state prisons. They have fewer violent offenders and better programs. The drawback for a federal prison is that you do have to serve eighty five percent of your sentence. But look, if you're already looking at an extent sentence and nearly most of your life, you'd rather be in a better funded facility that has fewer violent criminals. So he's literally trying to choose where he spends he This was them knowing and acknowledging that they did not actually have a snowball's chance in hell of getting him on guilty police, so let's just pick the better prison system to be in, federal versus state.
00:14:24
Speaker 4: That does seem like what their choice was.
00:14:26
Speaker 1: Sick crazy, you got bad options. If those are your options, ye, which prison do you want? I'll take the federal. Better be in an embassy suitees than a motel six. Are his choices.
00:14:36
Speaker 3: Exactly exactly, and Mangioni's attorneys this was in a statement correct after explaining basically why they believe this state trial should not proceed, he said. They say he's been unfairly treated since the outset in every way, two simultaneous prosecutions in two jurisdictions, who are trying to punish him twice for his exact conduct. New York law does not permit a person to be prosecuted and punished twice for the exact same crime under a statute that covers successive prosecutions. It's also known as the double jeopardy law. Today's guilty plea triggers this statute. And we just filed our motion in state court explaining why the state charges must be dismissed under New York's double jeopardy protections.
00:15:22
Speaker 1: They make it clear what they're doing here. This is automatic. So robes What if what if this judge, this federal judge doesn't give him life in prison? What could he give him for the stalking charges?
00:15:36
Speaker 2: Five?
00:15:36
Speaker 4: Twenty five? He could? I mean, he could give him twenty five, He could give him thirty. He knows the world is watching.
00:15:41
Speaker 3: He also knows if the state drops his case or is forced to drop its case, that this will be his only punish This is.
00:15:48
Speaker 1: It, This is it, and we should rose because this state trial is supposed to be happening in a matter of weeks, right September eighth. I think I have it right, So Robes, there needs to be movement on what's going to happen here before September eighth. So after a year and a half of hearing after hearing after hearing, we have like a three week sprint to get this case resolved completely with MAGGIONI ropes, how could the judge there's no way he's gonna give him twenty five what's eighty five percent of twenty five?
00:16:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's not anywhere near enough? And I don't think anybody would accept that. But I was even thinking, how do you quantify life?
00:16:24
Speaker 4: Is that fifty years?
00:16:25
Speaker 3: He's twenty eight, So what is that fifty years? And then what's eighty five percent of fifty years?
00:16:30
Speaker 1: I don't think the family or many people will accept anything short of him spending the rest of his life in prison.
00:16:35
Speaker 2: Will that?
00:16:36
Speaker 4: I don't think so.
00:16:37
Speaker 3: I think most everyone agrees he should be in prison for.
00:16:40
Speaker 4: Life, But yeah, what is a life term? What is that equal to in years?
00:16:43
Speaker 2: In years? For god, that's twenty eight.
00:16:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, to guarantee that he'll still end up behind that this is going to be fascinating for the next couple of weeks. Here we did here, of course, we just let you hear from Maggioni's attorneys. We also heard from the district attorney, who is none too pleased that his case might be getting highjacked. We'll let you hear that. Also, we'll let you hear from the family. Brian Thompson's family also put out a statement to express how they felt about what we've seen in this case in the past twenty four hours. All right, folks, we continue here on this Saturday on Amy and TJ have several developing stories. We usually get up in the morning robes and we like to do something a little lighter, a little more fun. But there are a couple of stories that have been bubbling this week. We're talking about Mangioni now with his case, but also there were two other significant stories with significant updates that we're going to be getting into on our morning feed that you can look for right after this episode. What having to do robes with that Cambridge professor who is at the center of plagiarism charges. He is now dead been found dead in London. We're going to get into that and also another story out Texas. This one's fascinating to me, the legal back and forth over a surrogate who didn't want to have an abortion at the request of the parents.
00:18:09
Speaker 3: Yes, and now that baby has been born and there are plenty of legal filings flying. But yes, it's forcing a lot of well certainly the state of Texas to make some decisions because there is plenty of legal action going on because yes, the biological parents didn't even want the child to exist.
00:18:29
Speaker 1: So yes, those were significant, very buzzy stories. This week, we'll get the updates on both of those as well. Again those episodes of being our feed right after this one.
00:18:38
Speaker 2: But ropes.
00:18:38
Speaker 1: Getting back to Mangioni the DA as you know, the state and the Feds have been arguing over who gets this guy first, and it looks like the state was going to via trial, but now the Feds have with the plea.
00:18:50
Speaker 3: And there are so many angry folks, including the judge who it seems was overseeing the staycase. He basically said that the Feds renigged on their agreement basically because the state had done all the work and was prepared and was ready to go, and it had already been agreed that they were going to try their case first.
00:19:07
Speaker 2: But the guy wants the plete we're supposed to do.
00:19:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, but obviously there was negotiations going on behind.
00:19:12
Speaker 2: Don't let him plead.
00:19:13
Speaker 4: What is the option there exactly? But yes, feathers are ruffled, so to speak. The DA put out this statement.
00:19:20
Speaker 3: Since December twenty twenty four, the Manhattan DA's office has been tirelessly preparing to pursue a trial conviction in New York State Supreme Court for the alleged cold blooded murder of Brian Thompson. We are encouraged that mister Thompson's family received a measure of accountability today. While federal sentencing is pending, we are prepared to litigate the defense motions. The Manhattan's DA office remains committed to seeking justice for mister Thompson and his family.
00:19:48
Speaker 2: Or is that line in there? Federal sentence is.
00:19:51
Speaker 4: A measure of accountability.
00:19:53
Speaker 2: A measure.
00:19:53
Speaker 1: What they're saying is that ain't good enough. So that's where we're coming in.
00:19:58
Speaker 3: We want him convicted of the murder. That's exactly what they're saying.
00:20:01
Speaker 1: The family did put out a statement as well, saying that the guilty plea marks an important step toward justice for Brian and for our family. Nothing will use the pain of losing him. We're grateful for the federal justice system holding him responsible for this heinous act. Now we look to the court to ensure that sentencing reflects the severity of this crime. We remain mindful that additional proceedings in New York and Pennsylvania are still to come, and we continue to seek the justice Brian deserves.
00:20:26
Speaker 2: Robes. It sounds like they left room to be open for the state case to go away.
00:20:33
Speaker 4: Yes, because they understand that it very likely might.
00:20:35
Speaker 3: I'm sure they have been prepared for the possibility that this is it and he's going to prison for the rest of his life. It's probably annoying that he in a way, if this ends up being his only proceeding and the state charges go away, it is probably annoying to the family to think he kind of in a way got to manipulate or got to choose what prison system he's in. Look, I mean, you have less violent criminals in federal prison.
00:21:02
Speaker 4: It's going to be a better experience for him, and.
00:21:04
Speaker 3: That might be a little annoying that he got to in a way choose by quickly pleading to the federal case ahead of the state trial.
00:21:13
Speaker 2: What's acceptable ultimately to the family.
00:21:16
Speaker 1: I suppose Robes would just be life knowing he's not going to get out of prison. But there's that line in there saying we look to the court now to ensure sentencing reflects the severity of the crime. That makes it sound to me Robes is we don't care that much about the murder conviction. We just want to make sure whatever sentence he gets reflects what he did. And that makes sense. And that makes sense. But I mean, they always consult with families prosecutors do I wonder do they want to go sit through a state trial?
00:21:48
Speaker 4: Yeah? I don't know. I don't know.
00:21:50
Speaker 3: Everyone's different. If you have the if it actually would make you feel better to see it litigated and to see everything take place, does that give you some sense of I don't know, you're a part of the process where you're getting justice.
00:22:05
Speaker 4: For your loved one. Or is it better to just not have to go through that.
00:22:08
Speaker 1: You knew he already is going to prison for the rest of his life. Do you want to go sit in state court every day for several months? Walking past those protesters walking past his supporters doing all that. Is it that important to you that on the record it says murder conviction for me?
00:22:25
Speaker 3: Anybody wouldn't for me, It wouldn't be but it And you don't know, I don't know until you go through it, until you've lost your husband, your children's father, you don't know your son.
00:22:37
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's hard to say.
00:22:38
Speaker 1: Well, the sentencing we speak of will happen on December eighteenth, at least that's when it's scheduled. And we do not know, folks, what is going to happen in the state case. Is a state trial going to go forward? Are these charges going to get dropped? We don't know, But answers have to come. They have to come soon because that state trial is scheduled for September the eighth and rope. They already announced that the jury was supposed to be anonymous.
00:22:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, so things are in motion.
00:23:02
Speaker 4: We shall see, all right, folks.
00:23:03
Speaker 1: Just wanted to give you that update again. Two other episodes you'll see this morning on our feed having to do with those other major stories that are bubbling as well, So look for those. We appreciate just always spending some time with us on TJ on behalf of my dear Emmy Roebak.
00:23:15
Speaker 2: We'll talk to You'll soon