Sept. 14, 2025
It’s a Secret Love Story, 40 Years in The Making: Ollie and Fawn
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RSS Feed The Iran-Contra affair captivated this country in the late 1980’s and the two central figures from that moment in history, have just privately wedded. It’s Amy’s favorite story of the week, that you may have missed! Oliver North and Fawn Hall are newlyweds, their friends say they reconnected at Oliver North’s wife’s funeral last November, but his children say they weren’t invited to the wedding, and in fact, had no idea they were even dating. Despite the mystery behind their love story, it’s one we are rooting for.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hey there are folks. It is Sunday, September the fourteenth, and a love story forty years in the making. Congratulations to Oliver and font The couple just got married recently, but their love stories started forty years ago, and it started with one of the biggest political scandals in US history. Welcome everybody to this episode of Amy and TJ and Robes. Do you I guess Watergate? But when you think biggest political scandals of all time, where does your mind actually.
00:00:42
Speaker 2: Go, Well, Watergate is definitely. Now that you've put that in my head, it's got to be number one. And look, a lot of this has to do with whoever's listening. How old you are, Yes, but if you are of a certain age, another scandal that will come immediately to you. And if you if it didn't when I say it, it'll be f familiar. The Iran Contra affair. And so for me, that was when I was I think I was still in single digits, but I remember it always being on like we didn't have We didn't have twenty four or seven television period and certainly not news agencies, but this was something that was on constantly, and even I remember the uproar and the constant coverage. Even as a kid, I remember the Iran contra affair.
00:01:30
Speaker 1: I for whatever, does it count? The Clarence Thomas I remember that.
00:01:35
Speaker 2: Yes, that was huge to Anita Hill, Clarence Thomas, that was all in the same vein. Actually, I've just did the math. I think I was more. I think I was like ten eleven, twelve, like that age. But it's you're impressionable enough. You don't know and remember all the specifics, but you remember the players and you remember the general concept of the controversy.
00:01:56
Speaker 1: You know what that's throwing me now to your point, just how impressional we are and how much these things impact of Why am I? When I was a kid, I remember watching Anita Hill.
00:02:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, so do I test?
00:02:12
Speaker 1: I remember Clarence Thomas about a damn coke can.
00:02:15
Speaker 2: But here's my question. So we didn't have obviously, we didn't have iPhones, we didn't have mobile phones, we didn't have computers, we didn't have email, we didn't have access to information. So when you did, when something rose to the level that it got your attention as a ten, eleven, twelve year old, it had to be serious. Because now our kids from TikTok and whatever you name it. They know kind of everything that they have the basic idea of what's going on. They're in tune. We were not unless it got to a certain level, and these specific controversies were few and far between. But when they were there, you remember that you.
00:02:58
Speaker 1: Know the other without a doubt. And some would maybe even does some degree, put this larger than I don't know about larger than Watergate, but Lewinsky scandal, Monica Lewinsky, Oh.
00:03:10
Speaker 2: God, yeah, I mean I was already working at that point, wasn't I or in college? At least I was in college at that point, but one, yeah, I was. I was college aged, but yes, yes, And obviously O. J. Simpson like, there were just certain moments, certain trials, certain scandals that rose to a level that no matter what age you were, you knew of them.
00:03:30
Speaker 1: So of all the political scandals we think of, if you think of a love connection coming out of one, it's hard to think no iran contra.
00:03:39
Speaker 2: That usually does not happen. There are not usually love connections formed in those moments.
00:03:44
Speaker 1: This is the one, folks, A love story forty years in the making, and yes, it all comes out of the Iran Contra affair, if.
00:03:53
Speaker 2: You'll remember, in the late eighties, this was the scandal that erupted in the Reagan administration. So it was discovered that the US was secretly selling weapons to Iran and then using the proceeds from those illegal sales to fund anti government rebels in Nicaragua. Oh my god, this is all coming back to me right. There were daily televised, high drama congressional hearings that were investigating what was actually happening. And at the center of all of this, we all remembered. He was handsome, he was dashing, he was in command. His name, of course, was Marine Corp Lieutenant Oliver North, or as he was called in my house, Ali North. Yeah, I will say, I remember my family. This might be giving away a little bit, but they were big fans of Olie North. They loved him. Yeah, so he was like a national hero in my house, Ali North.
00:04:50
Speaker 1: You remember why?
00:04:51
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I just remember. So it's funny I as a kid, when I think of Oli North, regardless of what he was charged with and convicted of and pardon, I thought he was a good guy. He was a hero. Like That's my takeaway as a kid, like just the feeling in my home.
00:05:07
Speaker 1: This weird to thing, like what was that that that shaped that narrative in some way.
00:05:12
Speaker 2: I don't know.
00:05:12
Speaker 1: He was doing his duty, right, he doing he was following orders, he was still doing something in service of the country. I'm sure a lot of people did see it that way.
00:05:21
Speaker 2: Other might not have. I was I was living at that point. This was late eighties, so I guess at that point, I maybe my family had just moved from Missouri to Georgia, conservative areas, so it would make sense. Yes, so Ali North was a National Security Council staffer. He oversaw a lot of this covert and yes illegal program. But when everything hit the fan, Ali famously shredded the documents. We remember this, right, the shredder. This is when I think I first learned about what a paper shredder was. But he shredded the documents that were the evidence of this covert program. And it was his secretary, the beautiful oh see. And maybe this is also why I remembered she was like a part time model, gorgeous fawn Hall. She helped him as his secretary shred documents and then even smuggle some of them out of the White House into her clothing like that was all testified to and together. Definitely, Oliver North and Fawn Hall were Yeah, they were the two most famous and central figures of the Iran Contra scandal. Well, guess what everyone forty years later a very secret and kind of buried headline that I just happened to see this week that sent me running to tj oh my god, guess what. Oliver North and Fawn Hall have just gotten married.
00:07:00
Speaker 1: Congratulations to them. Congratulations, this is you. I don't know what the reaction is supposed to be short of anyone who's making a decision that you want to get married. I congratulate you to get to that point that there's somebody you want to take that step with. Congratulations. They have a history that makes this love story a significant one and a fascinating one. And when I want to hear so much more about it.
00:07:29
Speaker 2: I would love to have a glass of wine and pull up next to these two and say we want to hear about your story everything. So I also want to say this, I love someone. Look, I told you I kind of grew up in a household that loved Ollie North. I want to be that person who at eighty one has so much zest for life and hope for life and belief and love and partnership.
00:08:01
Speaker 1: And believe in time.
00:08:03
Speaker 2: Yes that I feel like it is worthwhile at eighty one to get married again. I think that's pretty cool.
00:08:11
Speaker 1: And a remind or say a reminder. Most people aren't aware he was married fifty six years.
00:08:17
Speaker 2: Fifty six years.
00:08:18
Speaker 1: She just passed within the past.
00:08:20
Speaker 2: She passed in no year, November of twenty twenty four she passed, so just shy of a year. But yes, so we know the official marriage date of Olie North and Fawn Hall. It was August twenty seventh, and so his wife who passed was in November, so that would be what nine months after her passing, the two got married. And the story as they tell it, how they met or rekindled or I shouldn't say rekindled. That's not fair.
00:08:50
Speaker 1: Okay, you're right, that's that's not fair.
00:08:53
Speaker 2: They they were reintroduced to one another, they began dating. They reconnected, that's the word I was looking for. Reconnected. At the funeral of his wife. This is according to a family friend who discussed their relationship, which had been secret to all of us and to almost everyone.
00:09:14
Speaker 1: And that's okay. I don't think there's scrutiny necessary. The first thing I hear about this is I thought, can I think it beautiful? Can I think you know what I am always a fan of are unorthodox or just non traditional love stories right, and non traditional stories of marriage and the idea that an eighty one year old man, no matter what, wants to and thinks there's value in getting married. I don't know what their reasons were, if it's purely love, if it's purely romantic, or of all I know, it could be having to do with insurance.
00:09:58
Speaker 2: I have no idea. The fact that these two have history and the history that they have together, look and there was I think that people might have raised eyebrows. He was a very good looking, even older man at that point. She was obviously a gorgeous woman. He even acknowledged it during the testimony during the Iran Contra hearings. I actually have a quote. The New York Times did a story about their marriage and they even remarked that during the testimony, Ali North said this, under oath, you know that I've got a beautiful secretary, and the Good Lord gave her the gift of beauty and the people snicker that Ollie North might have been doing a little hanky panky with his secretary. Ali North has been loyal to his wife since the day he married her, and he testified to that. He acknowledged he knew people were like, wow, you guys work together, and she shredded all these documents for you at the expense of her own potential legal freedom. Hmm. It was never proven, but certainly there were there was talk.
00:11:04
Speaker 1: And still she was and she was very you can call her young and beautiful, but there was also something what you say, dynamic about her parents. She had a look to her that was almost unique, and she had her big hair.
00:11:19
Speaker 2: So she was living in the eighties. She was full of okay, yeah, but she was a professional and to that point, so he says and maintains that he was loyal to his wife, his wife of fifty sixty years, by the way, and mother of their four children. She died in November, as we mentioned, at the age of eighty. But we should mention that Vaughn Hall actually went on to marry Danny Sugarman, who was a manager of the rock band The Doors, and she had some introduction to drugs and some issues and went through rehab and all of that. But they stayed together until he passed away in two thousand and five at the age of fifty. She was just forty six, so she has been a widow for twenty years. So she went on to get married. He stayed married. His wife dies this past year, and she's been a widow nearly for twenty years. The story is that she came to the funeral of his wife. She knew her obviously because she worked for her husband, and that is where they reconnected. And for I don't know this story. We no one knows the story of their romance. But they were married pretty quickly. But at a certain point, you understand that you don't have a lot of time left, so you got to get busy living. So there was no reason to wait. I mean, if they realized they had a connection, if they realized they had a partnership, if they realized that maybe they had always had this foundation of something and now they were actually able to explore it, good for them. That's amazing. I kind of love this story.
00:12:43
Speaker 1: I love this story too. There's nothing that I don't feel like, there's anything I need, no just together or raise an eyebrow or anything else. I'm fascinated how people like that can can stay that kind of connected after literal decades.
00:13:03
Speaker 2: Forty years Okay, so was.
00:13:06
Speaker 1: There something then? And I say something not a spark, But it doesn't mean they acted on it. But I wonder if someone that far gone in your life, if there really was a forty year gap and then you reconnect and you're married in nine.
00:13:25
Speaker 2: Months, babe, I do Actually, that makes a lot of sense to me. Wow, you and I had I don't think neither one of us acknowledged it. We both weren't in a position to even consider exploring it, and it was never in my head. And we've talked about this multiple times, but we had a spark. We had a connection, and it wasn't necessarily romantic. It wasn't because we didn't explore it, we didn't let ourselves go there. But there was a connection. There was a spark, and anyone who watched us on TV would say, Wow, they have great chemistry. I think that can exist, and if the timing isn't right, it isn't right, But it doesn't mean that spark or that chemistry isn't still there in an undercurrent, and so then I totally get it when the time is right, when the path is cleared, whether it's through death, divorce, whatever, and then you decide, hey, you know that thing I think we both know exists, Let's see what happens. And when you get to a certain age, what are you waiting for? If you know? And you've lived a long time perhaps thinking about what if, and now you get the chance to say, let's figure it out. Let's find out. That's pretty cool.
00:14:37
Speaker 1: You put it in some context. That helped me understand a little better. Okay, now I get it a little better when you put it in those terms. Yeah, something just being there. I am fascinated that that thing that was there forty years ago could still be there, that it can show itself once again. That I just I'm so fascinated by these this non traditional paths of love and marriage and what it looks like and what human connection can look like. I am. I love love, I do. I love this story for so many reasons. But it doesn't seem everybody necessarily loves this story. In particular, perhaps some in Oliver North's own family. Stay here, we'll tell you what some of his family members are saying about this marriage.
00:15:41
Speaker 2: Welcome back to this edition of Amy and TJ. And we are talking about a forty year love story. And there was I would imagine some level of love, respect, friendship, kinship, something that was there that stayed there between Oliver North and Fawn Hall. They worked together, they were grilled together, they went through public scrutiny together, and then they went on to live their own lives. She marries off, he stays married, and he claims and says very as Duteley testified to the fact that he remained loyal to his wife of fifty six years until the day she died in November of last year. But at her funeral, Oliver North and Fawn Hall, the central figures in the Iran contra affair, were brought back together, they say, and they very quickly in nine months, him at the age of eighty one, her at the age of sixty five sixty six. I've seen two different reports tied the knot in a secret ceremony August twenty seventh in the state of Virginia. And I say secret because it was I don't even know how some reporter dug up or found this marriage certificate, but it we've seen the photo imagery and the evidence, and they have not publicly commented on it. But some reporters have done their job and they have managed to at least get some sort of reaction from one of Oliver North's children. And look, you know, this is a touchy subject. They've lost their mom. He shared four children with his wife of fifty six years. But his daughter was asked about what she thought of the wedding. Her name is Sarah Katz, and the New York Times did this article and I thought this was really fascinating. But Sarah Katz said that she and her three siblings were not aware that their father was even in a relationship with Fawn Hall. And look, I get it, Like we get it. He understands why his children might not be receptive to that and why a lot of people might suddenly go aha, I knew it. They were always together, So it was just probably at this point, this stage in their lives and they've had enough publicity that they were like, yeah, let's just we're at a point where we can live for ourselves and not for anybody else. But anyway, Sarah Katz, his daughter, said that they had not seen Fawn Hall in decades until she did. Yes, they have confirmed she attended their mother's funeral late last year. And the quote from Sarah Katz is this, we were not at the wedding because we didn't know it was happening. And she said this this week to the New York Times. She said, and mostly this was sweet, and mostly we hope it won't impact our relationship with our dad because we do love him and we're still in the process of mourning our mother, which was a little bit Yeah, it can be true, and it can still be cutting. At the same time, it was it seemed as if a little bit of a veiled poke it we're still mourning our mom, Why aren't you that kind of a thing. But that might be reading into that statement.
00:19:01
Speaker 1: But that can be We'll go. That's tough. And I was doing the numbers on the years forty years ago, that would have put him at around forty forty one. That would have put her at around what twenty.
00:19:19
Speaker 2: Years younger than him? Like, give it, give her take a few Yeah, right, Well is she like, wait, sixty five and eighty one, I'm so bad with Matt. That's sixteen years younger.
00:19:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, it would have put her twenty five and him a forty one.
00:19:32
Speaker 2: There you go. See, I'm gonna go with with your your numbers.
00:19:36
Speaker 1: Those are good.
00:19:37
Speaker 2: Yes, So I mean, and that's a big age gap at that point and now later in life, I do think that's look I still think and I'm gonna choose to take them at their word that they both might have had feelings and maybe there was a spark and maybe there was some even just a kinship, maybe just a friendship, maybe just I like you, I've got your back, and there was a trust between to and when the right time reveals itself, they realized they had a connection that they could explore, that they could take deeper.
00:20:07
Speaker 1: But what happens at eighty one? Did you say it's still worth it? I love that to do this, to make this type of commitment, to make that statement at eighty one.
00:20:18
Speaker 2: It means that you still believe in love. It means that you still value the years and the time you have. No matter what your body looks like, no matter what your body is capable of, your mind and your heart are still beating and are still hungry for companionship and camaraderie and affection. I think that's really cool. I actually see this story, and I find hope in it that it's never too late to find love, it's never too late to give up to finding that special someone, and sometimes there are really awesome second chances and next chapters, and that can be just as beautiful as the first chapter.
00:20:56
Speaker 1: Congrats to the news at eighty one Congress all of the North, then Phone Hall and with that, folks, we always appreciate you hanging with us. For my dear pride, Amy Robot and T. J. Holmes was the ulcer m m hm
00:21:15
Speaker 2: Hm
Speaker 1: Hey there are folks. It is Sunday, September the fourteenth, and a love story forty years in the making. Congratulations to Oliver and font The couple just got married recently, but their love stories started forty years ago, and it started with one of the biggest political scandals in US history. Welcome everybody to this episode of Amy and TJ and Robes. Do you I guess Watergate? But when you think biggest political scandals of all time, where does your mind actually.
00:00:42
Speaker 2: Go, Well, Watergate is definitely. Now that you've put that in my head, it's got to be number one. And look, a lot of this has to do with whoever's listening. How old you are, Yes, but if you are of a certain age, another scandal that will come immediately to you. And if you if it didn't when I say it, it'll be f familiar. The Iran Contra affair. And so for me, that was when I was I think I was still in single digits, but I remember it always being on like we didn't have We didn't have twenty four or seven television period and certainly not news agencies, but this was something that was on constantly, and even I remember the uproar and the constant coverage. Even as a kid, I remember the Iran contra affair.
00:01:30
Speaker 1: I for whatever, does it count? The Clarence Thomas I remember that.
00:01:35
Speaker 2: Yes, that was huge to Anita Hill, Clarence Thomas, that was all in the same vein. Actually, I've just did the math. I think I was more. I think I was like ten eleven, twelve, like that age. But it's you're impressionable enough. You don't know and remember all the specifics, but you remember the players and you remember the general concept of the controversy.
00:01:56
Speaker 1: You know what that's throwing me now to your point, just how impressional we are and how much these things impact of Why am I? When I was a kid, I remember watching Anita Hill.
00:02:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, so do I test?
00:02:12
Speaker 1: I remember Clarence Thomas about a damn coke can.
00:02:15
Speaker 2: But here's my question. So we didn't have obviously, we didn't have iPhones, we didn't have mobile phones, we didn't have computers, we didn't have email, we didn't have access to information. So when you did, when something rose to the level that it got your attention as a ten, eleven, twelve year old, it had to be serious. Because now our kids from TikTok and whatever you name it. They know kind of everything that they have the basic idea of what's going on. They're in tune. We were not unless it got to a certain level, and these specific controversies were few and far between. But when they were there, you remember that you.
00:02:58
Speaker 1: Know the other without a doubt. And some would maybe even does some degree, put this larger than I don't know about larger than Watergate, but Lewinsky scandal, Monica Lewinsky, Oh.
00:03:10
Speaker 2: God, yeah, I mean I was already working at that point, wasn't I or in college? At least I was in college at that point, but one, yeah, I was. I was college aged, but yes, yes, And obviously O. J. Simpson like, there were just certain moments, certain trials, certain scandals that rose to a level that no matter what age you were, you knew of them.
00:03:30
Speaker 1: So of all the political scandals we think of, if you think of a love connection coming out of one, it's hard to think no iran contra.
00:03:39
Speaker 2: That usually does not happen. There are not usually love connections formed in those moments.
00:03:44
Speaker 1: This is the one, folks, A love story forty years in the making, and yes, it all comes out of the Iran Contra affair, if.
00:03:53
Speaker 2: You'll remember, in the late eighties, this was the scandal that erupted in the Reagan administration. So it was discovered that the US was secretly selling weapons to Iran and then using the proceeds from those illegal sales to fund anti government rebels in Nicaragua. Oh my god, this is all coming back to me right. There were daily televised, high drama congressional hearings that were investigating what was actually happening. And at the center of all of this, we all remembered. He was handsome, he was dashing, he was in command. His name, of course, was Marine Corp Lieutenant Oliver North, or as he was called in my house, Ali North. Yeah, I will say, I remember my family. This might be giving away a little bit, but they were big fans of Olie North. They loved him. Yeah, so he was like a national hero in my house, Ali North.
00:04:50
Speaker 1: You remember why?
00:04:51
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I just remember. So it's funny I as a kid, when I think of Oli North, regardless of what he was charged with and convicted of and pardon, I thought he was a good guy. He was a hero. Like That's my takeaway as a kid, like just the feeling in my home.
00:05:07
Speaker 1: This weird to thing, like what was that that that shaped that narrative in some way.
00:05:12
Speaker 2: I don't know.
00:05:12
Speaker 1: He was doing his duty, right, he doing he was following orders, he was still doing something in service of the country. I'm sure a lot of people did see it that way.
00:05:21
Speaker 2: Other might not have. I was I was living at that point. This was late eighties, so I guess at that point, I maybe my family had just moved from Missouri to Georgia, conservative areas, so it would make sense. Yes, so Ali North was a National Security Council staffer. He oversaw a lot of this covert and yes illegal program. But when everything hit the fan, Ali famously shredded the documents. We remember this, right, the shredder. This is when I think I first learned about what a paper shredder was. But he shredded the documents that were the evidence of this covert program. And it was his secretary, the beautiful oh see. And maybe this is also why I remembered she was like a part time model, gorgeous fawn Hall. She helped him as his secretary shred documents and then even smuggle some of them out of the White House into her clothing like that was all testified to and together. Definitely, Oliver North and Fawn Hall were Yeah, they were the two most famous and central figures of the Iran Contra scandal. Well, guess what everyone forty years later a very secret and kind of buried headline that I just happened to see this week that sent me running to tj oh my god, guess what. Oliver North and Fawn Hall have just gotten married.
00:07:00
Speaker 1: Congratulations to them. Congratulations, this is you. I don't know what the reaction is supposed to be short of anyone who's making a decision that you want to get married. I congratulate you to get to that point that there's somebody you want to take that step with. Congratulations. They have a history that makes this love story a significant one and a fascinating one. And when I want to hear so much more about it.
00:07:29
Speaker 2: I would love to have a glass of wine and pull up next to these two and say we want to hear about your story everything. So I also want to say this, I love someone. Look, I told you I kind of grew up in a household that loved Ollie North. I want to be that person who at eighty one has so much zest for life and hope for life and belief and love and partnership.
00:08:01
Speaker 1: And believe in time.
00:08:03
Speaker 2: Yes that I feel like it is worthwhile at eighty one to get married again. I think that's pretty cool.
00:08:11
Speaker 1: And a remind or say a reminder. Most people aren't aware he was married fifty six years.
00:08:17
Speaker 2: Fifty six years.
00:08:18
Speaker 1: She just passed within the past.
00:08:20
Speaker 2: She passed in no year, November of twenty twenty four she passed, so just shy of a year. But yes, so we know the official marriage date of Olie North and Fawn Hall. It was August twenty seventh, and so his wife who passed was in November, so that would be what nine months after her passing, the two got married. And the story as they tell it, how they met or rekindled or I shouldn't say rekindled. That's not fair.
00:08:50
Speaker 1: Okay, you're right, that's that's not fair.
00:08:53
Speaker 2: They they were reintroduced to one another, they began dating. They reconnected, that's the word I was looking for. Reconnected. At the funeral of his wife. This is according to a family friend who discussed their relationship, which had been secret to all of us and to almost everyone.
00:09:14
Speaker 1: And that's okay. I don't think there's scrutiny necessary. The first thing I hear about this is I thought, can I think it beautiful? Can I think you know what I am always a fan of are unorthodox or just non traditional love stories right, and non traditional stories of marriage and the idea that an eighty one year old man, no matter what, wants to and thinks there's value in getting married. I don't know what their reasons were, if it's purely love, if it's purely romantic, or of all I know, it could be having to do with insurance.
00:09:58
Speaker 2: I have no idea. The fact that these two have history and the history that they have together, look and there was I think that people might have raised eyebrows. He was a very good looking, even older man at that point. She was obviously a gorgeous woman. He even acknowledged it during the testimony during the Iran Contra hearings. I actually have a quote. The New York Times did a story about their marriage and they even remarked that during the testimony, Ali North said this, under oath, you know that I've got a beautiful secretary, and the Good Lord gave her the gift of beauty and the people snicker that Ollie North might have been doing a little hanky panky with his secretary. Ali North has been loyal to his wife since the day he married her, and he testified to that. He acknowledged he knew people were like, wow, you guys work together, and she shredded all these documents for you at the expense of her own potential legal freedom. Hmm. It was never proven, but certainly there were there was talk.
00:11:04
Speaker 1: And still she was and she was very you can call her young and beautiful, but there was also something what you say, dynamic about her parents. She had a look to her that was almost unique, and she had her big hair.
00:11:19
Speaker 2: So she was living in the eighties. She was full of okay, yeah, but she was a professional and to that point, so he says and maintains that he was loyal to his wife, his wife of fifty sixty years, by the way, and mother of their four children. She died in November, as we mentioned, at the age of eighty. But we should mention that Vaughn Hall actually went on to marry Danny Sugarman, who was a manager of the rock band The Doors, and she had some introduction to drugs and some issues and went through rehab and all of that. But they stayed together until he passed away in two thousand and five at the age of fifty. She was just forty six, so she has been a widow for twenty years. So she went on to get married. He stayed married. His wife dies this past year, and she's been a widow nearly for twenty years. The story is that she came to the funeral of his wife. She knew her obviously because she worked for her husband, and that is where they reconnected. And for I don't know this story. We no one knows the story of their romance. But they were married pretty quickly. But at a certain point, you understand that you don't have a lot of time left, so you got to get busy living. So there was no reason to wait. I mean, if they realized they had a connection, if they realized they had a partnership, if they realized that maybe they had always had this foundation of something and now they were actually able to explore it, good for them. That's amazing. I kind of love this story.
00:12:43
Speaker 1: I love this story too. There's nothing that I don't feel like, there's anything I need, no just together or raise an eyebrow or anything else. I'm fascinated how people like that can can stay that kind of connected after literal decades.
00:13:03
Speaker 2: Forty years Okay, so was.
00:13:06
Speaker 1: There something then? And I say something not a spark, But it doesn't mean they acted on it. But I wonder if someone that far gone in your life, if there really was a forty year gap and then you reconnect and you're married in nine.
00:13:25
Speaker 2: Months, babe, I do Actually, that makes a lot of sense to me. Wow, you and I had I don't think neither one of us acknowledged it. We both weren't in a position to even consider exploring it, and it was never in my head. And we've talked about this multiple times, but we had a spark. We had a connection, and it wasn't necessarily romantic. It wasn't because we didn't explore it, we didn't let ourselves go there. But there was a connection. There was a spark, and anyone who watched us on TV would say, Wow, they have great chemistry. I think that can exist, and if the timing isn't right, it isn't right, But it doesn't mean that spark or that chemistry isn't still there in an undercurrent, and so then I totally get it when the time is right, when the path is cleared, whether it's through death, divorce, whatever, and then you decide, hey, you know that thing I think we both know exists, Let's see what happens. And when you get to a certain age, what are you waiting for? If you know? And you've lived a long time perhaps thinking about what if, and now you get the chance to say, let's figure it out. Let's find out. That's pretty cool.
00:14:37
Speaker 1: You put it in some context. That helped me understand a little better. Okay, now I get it a little better when you put it in those terms. Yeah, something just being there. I am fascinated that that thing that was there forty years ago could still be there, that it can show itself once again. That I just I'm so fascinated by these this non traditional paths of love and marriage and what it looks like and what human connection can look like. I am. I love love, I do. I love this story for so many reasons. But it doesn't seem everybody necessarily loves this story. In particular, perhaps some in Oliver North's own family. Stay here, we'll tell you what some of his family members are saying about this marriage.
00:15:41
Speaker 2: Welcome back to this edition of Amy and TJ. And we are talking about a forty year love story. And there was I would imagine some level of love, respect, friendship, kinship, something that was there that stayed there between Oliver North and Fawn Hall. They worked together, they were grilled together, they went through public scrutiny together, and then they went on to live their own lives. She marries off, he stays married, and he claims and says very as Duteley testified to the fact that he remained loyal to his wife of fifty six years until the day she died in November of last year. But at her funeral, Oliver North and Fawn Hall, the central figures in the Iran contra affair, were brought back together, they say, and they very quickly in nine months, him at the age of eighty one, her at the age of sixty five sixty six. I've seen two different reports tied the knot in a secret ceremony August twenty seventh in the state of Virginia. And I say secret because it was I don't even know how some reporter dug up or found this marriage certificate, but it we've seen the photo imagery and the evidence, and they have not publicly commented on it. But some reporters have done their job and they have managed to at least get some sort of reaction from one of Oliver North's children. And look, you know, this is a touchy subject. They've lost their mom. He shared four children with his wife of fifty six years. But his daughter was asked about what she thought of the wedding. Her name is Sarah Katz, and the New York Times did this article and I thought this was really fascinating. But Sarah Katz said that she and her three siblings were not aware that their father was even in a relationship with Fawn Hall. And look, I get it, Like we get it. He understands why his children might not be receptive to that and why a lot of people might suddenly go aha, I knew it. They were always together, So it was just probably at this point, this stage in their lives and they've had enough publicity that they were like, yeah, let's just we're at a point where we can live for ourselves and not for anybody else. But anyway, Sarah Katz, his daughter, said that they had not seen Fawn Hall in decades until she did. Yes, they have confirmed she attended their mother's funeral late last year. And the quote from Sarah Katz is this, we were not at the wedding because we didn't know it was happening. And she said this this week to the New York Times. She said, and mostly this was sweet, and mostly we hope it won't impact our relationship with our dad because we do love him and we're still in the process of mourning our mother, which was a little bit Yeah, it can be true, and it can still be cutting. At the same time, it was it seemed as if a little bit of a veiled poke it we're still mourning our mom, Why aren't you that kind of a thing. But that might be reading into that statement.
00:19:01
Speaker 1: But that can be We'll go. That's tough. And I was doing the numbers on the years forty years ago, that would have put him at around forty forty one. That would have put her at around what twenty.
00:19:19
Speaker 2: Years younger than him? Like, give it, give her take a few Yeah, right, Well is she like, wait, sixty five and eighty one, I'm so bad with Matt. That's sixteen years younger.
00:19:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, it would have put her twenty five and him a forty one.
00:19:32
Speaker 2: There you go. See, I'm gonna go with with your your numbers.
00:19:36
Speaker 1: Those are good.
00:19:37
Speaker 2: Yes, So I mean, and that's a big age gap at that point and now later in life, I do think that's look I still think and I'm gonna choose to take them at their word that they both might have had feelings and maybe there was a spark and maybe there was some even just a kinship, maybe just a friendship, maybe just I like you, I've got your back, and there was a trust between to and when the right time reveals itself, they realized they had a connection that they could explore, that they could take deeper.
00:20:07
Speaker 1: But what happens at eighty one? Did you say it's still worth it? I love that to do this, to make this type of commitment, to make that statement at eighty one.
00:20:18
Speaker 2: It means that you still believe in love. It means that you still value the years and the time you have. No matter what your body looks like, no matter what your body is capable of, your mind and your heart are still beating and are still hungry for companionship and camaraderie and affection. I think that's really cool. I actually see this story, and I find hope in it that it's never too late to find love, it's never too late to give up to finding that special someone, and sometimes there are really awesome second chances and next chapters, and that can be just as beautiful as the first chapter.
00:20:56
Speaker 1: Congrats to the news at eighty one Congress all of the North, then Phone Hall and with that, folks, we always appreciate you hanging with us. For my dear pride, Amy Robot and T. J. Holmes was the ulcer m m hm
00:21:15
Speaker 2: Hm