Sept. 7, 2026
Is It Just Us, Or Do Waiters Ask You This Question?
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RSS Feed While interracial dating is not taboo the way it was in years past, it is still fascinating the way we are often treated when we’re out at restaurants together. Over the weekend, we dealt with the same question we are constantly asked, and it’s a question we were NEVER confronted with when we were with same race partners. We discuss why it’s difficult to assume people of opposite races are in a romantic relationship, and what would should say the next time we’re asked if we want to “split the bill."
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hey there folks, it is Monday, September 7th. It is Labor Day and this is not the episode we planned to record. But we're doing it now because Robes is really fired up about something. Something that waiters ask us at the end of our meal that really pisses her off. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ Robes. Tell them, tell them all, tell them the question we get that for whatever reason we'll get into just kind of irks you.
00:00:36
Speaker 2: It doesn't just kind of irk me. It definitely bothers me. And I'm not assigning any sort of malintent behind the question. But my God, it sticks out like a sore thumb.
00:00:47
Speaker 1: Why? Go ahead. What is it? You can tell folks.
00:00:51
Speaker 2: Well, I'm trying to think exactly how they word it. But you offer them one credit card and say, could we get a bill? And then they look at you offering them a single card and say, would you like this on two separate checks? A version of that. Would you like this separated into two? And I look at them and I think, is that an actual joke? You didn't say, can we split the bill? You didn't say, hey, can we have our check split? You say, can we get the bill? And you actually always have a credit card ready and you show it to them. And they look at me and they say, would you like to split the bill?
00:01:31
Speaker 1: Okay. So this happens, and let's give the count. We kind of negotiated what we think the number of times this is. But you and I eat out quite a bit.
00:01:43
Speaker 2: I mean, at least once a day, let's be honest.
00:01:45
Speaker 1: That's true.
00:01:45
Speaker 2: At least. That's actually kind of embarrassing to admit, but it's true.
00:01:48
Speaker 1: We're in a restaurant once a day.
00:01:50
Speaker 2: We are.
00:01:50
Speaker 1: Sometimes twice.
00:01:51
Speaker 3: Sometimes.
00:01:51
Speaker 1: And if you get just on some days, it might be three times.
00:01:56
Speaker 2: That's really embarrassing to admit, but- No, why? It's fine. Because we're in New York City, and it's like, how could you possibly get- It's convenient, and you could not possibly get better food. Like, it's the best of the best.
00:02:07
Speaker 1: Okay. Then there it is.
00:02:09
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:02:09
Speaker 1: But, okay, so we're out quite a bit. So we are saying quite a bit to a waiter, can we get our check? So we're trying to decide how often it happens. Now, it happened the other day. Damn, what restaurant was it?
00:02:22
Speaker 2: Damn it.
00:02:23
Speaker 1: Damn it, Rome. So was it. This just happened. It was yesterday.
00:02:26
Speaker 2: It was yesterday.
00:02:27
Speaker 1: Where were we? Oh, my God. It matters not.
00:02:30
Speaker 2: The point being is, I would say, initially, look, we have our restaurants that are our go-tos.
00:02:35
Speaker 1: They know us.
00:02:36
Speaker 2: Obviously. Obviously, it wouldn't happen there. But in restaurants that we are first-timers in. Yes. Yes. Which is a couple times a week. I initially said 50% of the time. That's what it felt like to me.
00:02:49
Speaker 1: And you know what? I want to believe it's been less. You might still be right. But it's 40. It's 35. We landed between 30 and 40%.
00:02:55
Speaker 2: Okay. That's a high percentage.
00:03:00
Speaker 1: Regardless okay so what does that suggest robes it suggests if someone asks that they believe we are not then a couple okay correct so what's the big deal what what who cares why is that a problem okay why is that offensive even to you that people see us maybe they don't see how we're interacting i don't know babe so you please take.
00:03:22
Speaker 2: The mic All I can tell you is I started to organically notice it and notice it and notice it. And it started to bother me more and more and more each time because. We come in together. We're laughing. We're fairly effusive. I think anyone who has ever been in our presence can see the love, the compatibility, the fun, and maybe we like each other too much. Maybe that's why they don't think we're a couple, but that's too much of a pass, so I'm not actually going to give that. That was a bad attempt at humor. But the point being is I have never in my life.
00:04:02
Speaker 1: All right.
00:04:02
Speaker 2: Been with a white counterpart, whether I was on a date or in a relationship or not, where that white man said, can we have the bill and had a credit card? And the waiter asks, can I split the bill or do you need the bill split? I've never once in my life ever been questioned. Like I obviously, if you say, can we have the bill split? That's one thing. But I have never had a waiter assume or even after an offer is made to pay the bill, the waiter then asks the question, can I split the bill for you? So the assumption that we're not together is so often that it, yes, it kind of blows my mind and it starts to annoy me.
00:04:47
Speaker 1: Why is it annoying to you that folks don't assume we're together?
00:04:51
Speaker 2: Because there's no recognition that we could be. And I think that's an inherent form of racism. I don't think anyone means anything by it. I don't think anyone is intending harm by it. But I just think it's an exposure and a way to take a look back like, wow, I wouldn't have thought they were together.
00:05:09
Speaker 1: Why?
00:05:09
Speaker 2: Because we're not the same age? No. Do we look like we could be together? I would say yes. The only reason why we might not be a couple is because you're black and I'm white. And I get it. But after a certain point, when it happens over and over and over again, it's hard not to feel offended. I know they don't mean anything by it. And you're laughing at me because this is the first time I'm like a white person. But I actually just got a taste of, wow, to be viewed through a lens that is so not what you're actually looking at.
00:05:41
Speaker 1: It's weird. And I listened to you because I would defer because you're the only one here that has dated a white man before. You're the only one that knows what it's like to show up to a restaurant as a white couple. So I will defer to you and what your experience has been. I will defer to you and respect when you say this is a unique experience. Now, what else could we attribute it to? Is there anything? I'm trying to clear the slate. I'm trying to make sure I'm not missing something else about us and our appearance and how we behave and how we are that would suggest to 40% of waiters that that we might not be on the same bill.
00:06:28
Speaker 2: No, the only other thing you would assume is we're coworkers or we're friends.
00:06:33
Speaker 1: Which we are.
00:06:34
Speaker 2: We were both of those, and we were all of those things.
00:06:37
Speaker 1: We remain both of those things, by the way.
00:06:39
Speaker 2: That actually is true. Okay. But, no, if you were white or I were black, I don't think they would ask, can we split the bill for you? After you ask for the bill, and do not say, can we take a look at the receipt?
00:06:53
Speaker 1: Or you don't even.
00:06:54
Speaker 2: acknowledge that there needs to be any sort of questioning of who has the bill who's looking at the bill no that i've never experienced that before and there's no other thing i don't believe that differentiates us from being a couple we and again and i guess people don't pay that much attention but if you took two seconds to look at us i think it's pretty clear we're more than friends right i mean wouldn't you think that's a fair thing to say.
00:07:25
Speaker 1: Okay, then, babe, what are we talking about? Okay, how about this? Can you go back to a time... This is a tough ask. Any time, other than if you're with a girlfriend or a group of girlfriends, that you've been asked that question out at dinner about splitting a check?
00:07:44
Speaker 2: No, I actually don't. It's only when I have asked to split a check. I always feel like waiters defer and are hoping... that you don't split the check. That's an annoying thing for a waiter typically to have to do. So yeah, I always feel bad if I do have to ask to the point where when I've been with a group of girlfriends, one of us usually says, I got it. Y'all can just Venmo me, whatever you think, because we don't want to put it on the waiter. It is an extra step a waiter has to take. That is why I am blown away when we don't ask for or even suggest that we might even consider two separate checks, that they offer it, that they question us being together.
00:08:24
Speaker 1: But why is it that irksome to you that people just don't make the assumption? I know you don't, there's no malintent. You don't, you're not suggesting that.
00:08:31
Speaker 2: I'm not suggesting that.
00:08:31
Speaker 1: But why does that irk you that people see us and jump to a different conclusion other than what they would normally jump to if a couple walks into a restaurant at 1230 on a Sunday and for brunch and order bottomless mimosas, and they're touching hands at the table and laughing and having a good time and seem of similar age, and one has an engagement ring on. Now, what, sweetheart, could possibly, what is it, is that I'm trying to leave room for looking at us and going, why would I assume they're together?
00:09:09
Speaker 2: It just makes me sad that it seems so out of the ordinary that they would have to question or they didn't feel comfortable assuming we were together.
00:09:20
Speaker 1: Ah, you've hit on something else. That's different. Okay. Okay. That's different. Ah, we finally get around to it. I'm seeing in the reverse now. They're so bothered about possibly making a mistake. that they err on the side of more safety?
00:09:42
Speaker 2: I guess.
00:09:43
Speaker 1: It's a mistake. How awkward would it be to assume these two are together and they're not?
00:09:49
Speaker 2: That that would be worse than assuming they are together. Yes, there's something that just... Look, again, I know there's no malintent, but there's something about it that makes me... me so sad that we're so afraid to assume that that could actually be a thing. That they could actually be together.
00:10:07
Speaker 1: Bros, interracial couples are not some new idea.
00:10:10
Speaker 2: No, but we are still rare. Even in New York City... Not that... I'm telling you. I've asked you. Take a look.
00:10:15
Speaker 1: Count.
00:10:16
Speaker 2: They... Even in New York City... It is still a rarity. It is still a rarity to see an interracial couple. It just is. And I will say that I think there is a fear of assumption. Like, I wouldn't want to presume maybe that'll make everybody feel awkward. I just think it's like a glaring example of this fear we all have of just saying it's okay and normalizing it. And that just makes me sad. And look, it doesn't just happen in restaurants anymore. It happens when we walk into retail stores all the time.
00:10:51
Speaker 1: Wait, what happened? What am I missing?
00:10:52
Speaker 2: All the time. I'll walk in. They'll say, hey, ma'am, are you looking for anything? And I was like, no. And they'll look at you and they'll say, sir, can I help you? They won't assume we're together.
00:11:02
Speaker 1: They greet me separately.
00:11:04
Speaker 2: They greet you separately.
00:11:06
Speaker 1: Okay, you're right. That does happen.
00:11:07
Speaker 2: It happens almost every time. We literally walk in together.
00:11:11
Speaker 1: Oh, look at your hands.
00:11:13
Speaker 2: And... And then somehow we get slightly separated and we're treated like.
00:11:17
Speaker 1: We didn't ever walk in together.
00:11:19
Speaker 2: Okay, maybe they didn't notice.
00:11:20
Speaker 1: I'll give them a pass. Maybe they didn't notice. I'll give them a pass.
00:11:24
Speaker 2: But I'm telling you, any time I've ever walked in two steps ahead, two steps behind.
00:11:29
Speaker 1: With your white man.
00:11:30
Speaker 2: With my white man, no one has ever presumed that they needed to greet us separately because we were not together. I'm telling you, anytime we walk into any establishment and even come in together and clearly are interacting with one another, no one will actually assume that we're a couple. And it's weird to me. I've never been in an interracial couple before in my life. So this is all new, and it is kind of shocking how we're regarded. It just is. Okay. Okay.
00:12:03
Speaker 1: This is one last thing I'm going to ask. I know you notice it. You're mindful of it. But I don't want to assign it to you. But you seem genuinely irked, annoyed, angered, pissed, put off. What is it that gets you to that place? This is not just a funny observation of yours. This is something that as we've gone along over years now, it really rubs you the wrong way.
00:12:34
Speaker 2: Yes, because I get just a tiny taste of how disrespected you must feel as a black man in America. And because I love you, I actually feel it as much as I can as a privileged white woman. But yes, I get a sense of it. And I am kind of blown away by it.
00:12:55
Speaker 1: Let me ask why you think them asking that question is a slight to me.
00:13:00
Speaker 2: Because they're assuming... That we're not together. Why wouldn't they? And I get greeted first. I usually get taken care of first.
00:13:11
Speaker 1: That's what you should.
00:13:12
Speaker 2: And they're like, sir, I'm sorry. Who are you and what do you need? It feels dismissive. And I hate it. And it makes me angry.
00:13:20
Speaker 1: Okay. That's fair.
00:13:25
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:13:25
Speaker 1: Well, stay with us, folks, because next I would really like to hear how We should handle it the next time this happens. Oh, and oh yeah, it's going to happen again.
00:13:44
Speaker 2: Welcome back, everyone, to Amy and TJ. So, all right, you teased what's going to happen next time we are approached by a waiter.
00:13:52
Speaker 1: How do you remember us handling it in the past?
00:13:56
Speaker 2: We usually just kind of laugh it off and say... No, I've got it. Or just kind of just reiterate, as we said earlier, no, no, it's right here.
00:14:09
Speaker 3: Okay.
00:14:09
Speaker 2: One bill.
00:14:10
Speaker 1: Is there not, can you not remember a time I stopped and I asked somebody, why did you assume we're not together? Is that not sounding familiar?
00:14:17
Speaker 2: I do feel like maybe you did it. I do think maybe you did it once.
00:14:22
Speaker 1: That's sounding familiar.
00:14:23
Speaker 2: And the waiter just laughed it off and was like, I just didn't know. Like, you know, just obviously that's a... Fair thing to say.
00:14:34
Speaker 1: How would you like to handle it moving forward? What's the right way to do it? It's okay to be curious. You don't have to be angry. But again, I am curious. I think we asked once, and I don't think we got a good answer. But this is one of those things. I am curious why someone makes that assumption and how they would answer it. I haven't been upset as every time it's happened. Only one of the two of us has gotten worked up.
00:14:57
Speaker 2: Right, but I'm curious. Have you ever, because I believe I have. Okay, all right, so I can say this. Ever. Before you were with me as your fiancé, your girlfriend, your fiancé, if you had a black woman on a date with you, or as your wife, whoever, did anyone ask you repeatedly enough where you noticed? Should we split the bill?
00:15:23
Speaker 1: That's right. I've gone to lunch with black lesbians and they still didn't assume we weren't together.
00:15:29
Speaker 2: Right.
00:15:30
Speaker 1: Never. No, no, no. I'm trying to think of a single time ever that I've been asked that question. Are you, should I split the bill when I am with, on a date of any kind?
00:15:39
Speaker 2: Every single time.
00:15:40
Speaker 3: All right.
00:15:41
Speaker 2: I mean, not every single time, but I would argue 50% of the time. I feel like that has happened. There have been times when there was even a high profile time where I, they knew who we were and they still asked it. And I just, we had a, a hookup at a restaurant and I, they asked us if we wanted to split the bill. I'm just, I feel like that it just, it's never happened when we were with our own race.
00:16:11
Speaker 1: Okay.
00:16:11
Speaker 2: So that is the question.
00:16:12
Speaker 1: How do you want to handle, what are we going to do moving forward? Cause it's going to happen again this week.
00:16:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it happened yesterday.
00:16:20
Speaker 1: It's going to happen.
00:16:22
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know what the right thing to do is because I wouldn't want them to feel shame or that they did something abhorrent. But I would actually genuinely want to know why they asked that. And would they ask that if I were black or if he were white? And I know that would immediately cause shame.
00:16:43
Speaker 1: But we don't want to do that.
00:16:44
Speaker 2: And you can't do that. But I don't know what the question could be where you wouldn't. make somebody feel terrible about their question.
00:16:52
Speaker 1: Okay, but I'm protecting the feelings of someone who has already made me feel like this. So I'm saying there's a way to respectfully just say, hey, why did you ask that? You just assume we're not together? I'm just curious. And that's okay to ask. That's not rude.
00:17:06
Speaker 2: I think that's probably the best way probably to ask.
00:17:09
Speaker 1: And this reminds me, you know this story well. This building, we had an incident downstairs.
00:17:16
Speaker 2: We did, we did.
00:17:17
Speaker 1: When we first moved in here, Robes, we walked in. The guy at the front desk did not know us at the time.
00:17:24
Speaker 2: Right.
00:17:24
Speaker 1: I'm carrying. We just come from the, what's the district you call it? The flower district.
00:17:28
Speaker 2: Oh, the flower district. Yeah.
00:17:29
Speaker 1: The garden district. The garden district. I was carrying a couple things. You, I'm not sure. You had a bag in your hand.
00:17:35
Speaker 2: You were being a gentleman. You were carrying all the heavy load, and I probably just had my purse. Fine. Whatever. You were walking behind me.
00:17:41
Speaker 1: We're going up the elevator.
00:17:43
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:17:44
Speaker 1: He doesn't recognize, according to him, either one of us. But he only says to you, is he with you? Now, at that point, I don't go crazy. I didn't throw a fit. I said, why did you ask her if I was with her instead of asking me if she was with me? Why is it you assumed she was okay to be here and I'm not if you don't recognize either one of us? Why did I get that treatment? He lost his mind. I never said race. I never said black. I never said white. I just said, why did you ask her and not me if you don't recognize either one of us? Went crazy.
00:18:21
Speaker 2: By the way, he wasn't white.
00:18:23
Speaker 1: He was from somewhere else, though.
00:18:24
Speaker 2: Correct. I'm just saying.
00:18:28
Speaker 1: He was from somewhere else. But to your point, still, that is one of those moments to where I was just curious about And he lost his mind. It was, yes. Okay. But those moments, babe, I was calm. I didn't get upset because I'm used to it.
00:18:44
Speaker 2: You were just asking a question.
00:18:46
Speaker 3: But no, no, no.
00:18:46
Speaker 1: But I say that, babe. When everything happens at the restaurants with these guys, I'm used to not being regarded. I'm used to not being taken seriously. I'm used to not being respected. I am used to somebody looking at me and thinking I'm not capable of paying for a meal or of having a good enough credit to buy this car. I'm used to it. You, yes, baby. And I think it's one of the greatest things in our relationship. And I think every white person in the world should have your experience. To have someone you love that's black and to go through life with them and you would see things differently.
00:19:22
Speaker 2: It's so true.
00:19:22
Speaker 1: For somebody you love and respect to go, wow, I had no idea. This is the type of crap you deal with every day.
00:19:31
Speaker 2: I didn't even understand when we first started hanging out. You're like, hey, can you go get the table? Like you would ask me to go to the Mater D. And I didn't get it at first. And you have always said to me, hey, can you handle the Airbnb and the Virgo? Because with a name like Lutilius Holmes... yeah, I don't know.
00:19:51
Speaker 1: My face there.
00:19:52
Speaker 2: What to expect.
00:19:53
Speaker 1: We do all this. We had a call. We think it wasn't quite what they call it, swatting. It wasn't that. But it was potentially. What we suspect somebody called.
00:20:03
Speaker 2: We had a swatting incident.
00:20:05
Speaker 1: Kind of a thing. And the cops are on, our front desk calls us and said, cops are on the way up. We're like, what the hell? You're like, what the hell are we doing? I said, baby, can you pick up your glass of wine, please? I was like, no, I don't want them to.
00:20:18
Speaker 2: See me with a glass of wine in my hand.
00:20:20
Speaker 1: You're thinking you don't want to be in trouble. I'm thinking I want them to see a very relaxed atmosphere to make sure they know everything is chill here. Black guy, white woman. They showed up here, what, Robes? The call of a, A teenager screaming or something?
00:20:38
Speaker 2: Some teenager who was acting inappropriately, who needed a welfare check. They thought that that teenager might have gone into our whatever.
00:20:47
Speaker 1: So my head first thing is cop, dangerous situation, walks in, opens the door, sees my black ass. robes will you please come take care.
00:20:57
Speaker 2: Of this one yes that's my and i even said come on in come look at the apartment you you gave me a side eye on that one.
00:21:03
Speaker 1: No like please by all means do everything look.
00:21:07
Speaker 3: Everywhere oh my god what it is rob this is another situation this is fascinating to me how things get you worked up that i is just every day a part of life since birth for me and it's It's fascinating.
00:21:22
Speaker 1: I'm glad we talk about it. I do, babe. I think most, I think more people need to just have somebody you love that's black, that you respect, that you will hear them about their experience and go, okay, I love you enough and respect you enough to know that's real.
00:21:35
Speaker 2: And I have to say, like, I could hear you say it and I believed you. I didn't not believe you. But then to actually experience it is altogether something different. That is true. So when you when you're with someone enough and you love someone, you will all of a sudden like, oh, and you don't even I don't know. It's not directed at me. It's only directed at someone I love. So I still don't fully know what it feels like. I just have a much better idea of what it feels like. I still don't know the true and full impact, but I have a much better idea of it and the fact that I get worked up about just that little thing. And I know that cracks you up to an extent because it's so small compared to the larger issue. But look, any step in that direction towards one another where there's a little better understanding of is a very important one. So look, anyone, any waiter, anyone who hears this, we don't fault you. And I don't know how I would have, I don't know. If I hadn't had my experience, if I were waiting on a couple, maybe I would have said the same thing. Maybe I would have assumed the same things. You don't know until you're in those shoes. But just a reminder, don't make assumptions, right? Oh, my God.
00:22:51
Speaker 1: Or no, make some about us. We are together. Assume we are.
00:22:56
Speaker 2: Yes, believe people when they show you who they are.
00:22:59
Speaker 1: There is nothing about us that anybody ever saw us out somewhere. There's no suggestion we're anything other than.
00:23:05
Speaker 2: They must just be colleagues.
00:23:06
Speaker 1: There's nothing to suggest. All right, well, this was not... We were supposed to do a Meghan Markle in Prince Harry.
00:23:11
Speaker 2: We were going to do a totally different, yes, episode. But look, this came off this weekend once again, and I think it's an important topic. We'll speak a little bit more about our experiences. It is a unique one.
00:23:23
Speaker 1: You're going to go out to dinner tonight?
00:23:24
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think I'm good. I think we've gone out enough tonight.
00:23:27
Speaker 1: All right.
00:23:29
Speaker 2: We've had already two meals out.
00:23:31
Speaker 1: Oh, my goodness. And here's the baby she's calling. All right, folks. We appreciate you. As always, I'm TJ. That's Robes. And we'll talk to you all soon.
Speaker 1: Hey there folks, it is Monday, September 7th. It is Labor Day and this is not the episode we planned to record. But we're doing it now because Robes is really fired up about something. Something that waiters ask us at the end of our meal that really pisses her off. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ Robes. Tell them, tell them all, tell them the question we get that for whatever reason we'll get into just kind of irks you.
00:00:36
Speaker 2: It doesn't just kind of irk me. It definitely bothers me. And I'm not assigning any sort of malintent behind the question. But my God, it sticks out like a sore thumb.
00:00:47
Speaker 1: Why? Go ahead. What is it? You can tell folks.
00:00:51
Speaker 2: Well, I'm trying to think exactly how they word it. But you offer them one credit card and say, could we get a bill? And then they look at you offering them a single card and say, would you like this on two separate checks? A version of that. Would you like this separated into two? And I look at them and I think, is that an actual joke? You didn't say, can we split the bill? You didn't say, hey, can we have our check split? You say, can we get the bill? And you actually always have a credit card ready and you show it to them. And they look at me and they say, would you like to split the bill?
00:01:31
Speaker 1: Okay. So this happens, and let's give the count. We kind of negotiated what we think the number of times this is. But you and I eat out quite a bit.
00:01:43
Speaker 2: I mean, at least once a day, let's be honest.
00:01:45
Speaker 1: That's true.
00:01:45
Speaker 2: At least. That's actually kind of embarrassing to admit, but it's true.
00:01:48
Speaker 1: We're in a restaurant once a day.
00:01:50
Speaker 2: We are.
00:01:50
Speaker 1: Sometimes twice.
00:01:51
Speaker 3: Sometimes.
00:01:51
Speaker 1: And if you get just on some days, it might be three times.
00:01:56
Speaker 2: That's really embarrassing to admit, but- No, why? It's fine. Because we're in New York City, and it's like, how could you possibly get- It's convenient, and you could not possibly get better food. Like, it's the best of the best.
00:02:07
Speaker 1: Okay. Then there it is.
00:02:09
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:02:09
Speaker 1: But, okay, so we're out quite a bit. So we are saying quite a bit to a waiter, can we get our check? So we're trying to decide how often it happens. Now, it happened the other day. Damn, what restaurant was it?
00:02:22
Speaker 2: Damn it.
00:02:23
Speaker 1: Damn it, Rome. So was it. This just happened. It was yesterday.
00:02:26
Speaker 2: It was yesterday.
00:02:27
Speaker 1: Where were we? Oh, my God. It matters not.
00:02:30
Speaker 2: The point being is, I would say, initially, look, we have our restaurants that are our go-tos.
00:02:35
Speaker 1: They know us.
00:02:36
Speaker 2: Obviously. Obviously, it wouldn't happen there. But in restaurants that we are first-timers in. Yes. Yes. Which is a couple times a week. I initially said 50% of the time. That's what it felt like to me.
00:02:49
Speaker 1: And you know what? I want to believe it's been less. You might still be right. But it's 40. It's 35. We landed between 30 and 40%.
00:02:55
Speaker 2: Okay. That's a high percentage.
00:03:00
Speaker 1: Regardless okay so what does that suggest robes it suggests if someone asks that they believe we are not then a couple okay correct so what's the big deal what what who cares why is that a problem okay why is that offensive even to you that people see us maybe they don't see how we're interacting i don't know babe so you please take.
00:03:22
Speaker 2: The mic All I can tell you is I started to organically notice it and notice it and notice it. And it started to bother me more and more and more each time because. We come in together. We're laughing. We're fairly effusive. I think anyone who has ever been in our presence can see the love, the compatibility, the fun, and maybe we like each other too much. Maybe that's why they don't think we're a couple, but that's too much of a pass, so I'm not actually going to give that. That was a bad attempt at humor. But the point being is I have never in my life.
00:04:02
Speaker 1: All right.
00:04:02
Speaker 2: Been with a white counterpart, whether I was on a date or in a relationship or not, where that white man said, can we have the bill and had a credit card? And the waiter asks, can I split the bill or do you need the bill split? I've never once in my life ever been questioned. Like I obviously, if you say, can we have the bill split? That's one thing. But I have never had a waiter assume or even after an offer is made to pay the bill, the waiter then asks the question, can I split the bill for you? So the assumption that we're not together is so often that it, yes, it kind of blows my mind and it starts to annoy me.
00:04:47
Speaker 1: Why is it annoying to you that folks don't assume we're together?
00:04:51
Speaker 2: Because there's no recognition that we could be. And I think that's an inherent form of racism. I don't think anyone means anything by it. I don't think anyone is intending harm by it. But I just think it's an exposure and a way to take a look back like, wow, I wouldn't have thought they were together.
00:05:09
Speaker 1: Why?
00:05:09
Speaker 2: Because we're not the same age? No. Do we look like we could be together? I would say yes. The only reason why we might not be a couple is because you're black and I'm white. And I get it. But after a certain point, when it happens over and over and over again, it's hard not to feel offended. I know they don't mean anything by it. And you're laughing at me because this is the first time I'm like a white person. But I actually just got a taste of, wow, to be viewed through a lens that is so not what you're actually looking at.
00:05:41
Speaker 1: It's weird. And I listened to you because I would defer because you're the only one here that has dated a white man before. You're the only one that knows what it's like to show up to a restaurant as a white couple. So I will defer to you and what your experience has been. I will defer to you and respect when you say this is a unique experience. Now, what else could we attribute it to? Is there anything? I'm trying to clear the slate. I'm trying to make sure I'm not missing something else about us and our appearance and how we behave and how we are that would suggest to 40% of waiters that that we might not be on the same bill.
00:06:28
Speaker 2: No, the only other thing you would assume is we're coworkers or we're friends.
00:06:33
Speaker 1: Which we are.
00:06:34
Speaker 2: We were both of those, and we were all of those things.
00:06:37
Speaker 1: We remain both of those things, by the way.
00:06:39
Speaker 2: That actually is true. Okay. But, no, if you were white or I were black, I don't think they would ask, can we split the bill for you? After you ask for the bill, and do not say, can we take a look at the receipt?
00:06:53
Speaker 1: Or you don't even.
00:06:54
Speaker 2: acknowledge that there needs to be any sort of questioning of who has the bill who's looking at the bill no that i've never experienced that before and there's no other thing i don't believe that differentiates us from being a couple we and again and i guess people don't pay that much attention but if you took two seconds to look at us i think it's pretty clear we're more than friends right i mean wouldn't you think that's a fair thing to say.
00:07:25
Speaker 1: Okay, then, babe, what are we talking about? Okay, how about this? Can you go back to a time... This is a tough ask. Any time, other than if you're with a girlfriend or a group of girlfriends, that you've been asked that question out at dinner about splitting a check?
00:07:44
Speaker 2: No, I actually don't. It's only when I have asked to split a check. I always feel like waiters defer and are hoping... that you don't split the check. That's an annoying thing for a waiter typically to have to do. So yeah, I always feel bad if I do have to ask to the point where when I've been with a group of girlfriends, one of us usually says, I got it. Y'all can just Venmo me, whatever you think, because we don't want to put it on the waiter. It is an extra step a waiter has to take. That is why I am blown away when we don't ask for or even suggest that we might even consider two separate checks, that they offer it, that they question us being together.
00:08:24
Speaker 1: But why is it that irksome to you that people just don't make the assumption? I know you don't, there's no malintent. You don't, you're not suggesting that.
00:08:31
Speaker 2: I'm not suggesting that.
00:08:31
Speaker 1: But why does that irk you that people see us and jump to a different conclusion other than what they would normally jump to if a couple walks into a restaurant at 1230 on a Sunday and for brunch and order bottomless mimosas, and they're touching hands at the table and laughing and having a good time and seem of similar age, and one has an engagement ring on. Now, what, sweetheart, could possibly, what is it, is that I'm trying to leave room for looking at us and going, why would I assume they're together?
00:09:09
Speaker 2: It just makes me sad that it seems so out of the ordinary that they would have to question or they didn't feel comfortable assuming we were together.
00:09:20
Speaker 1: Ah, you've hit on something else. That's different. Okay. Okay. That's different. Ah, we finally get around to it. I'm seeing in the reverse now. They're so bothered about possibly making a mistake. that they err on the side of more safety?
00:09:42
Speaker 2: I guess.
00:09:43
Speaker 1: It's a mistake. How awkward would it be to assume these two are together and they're not?
00:09:49
Speaker 2: That that would be worse than assuming they are together. Yes, there's something that just... Look, again, I know there's no malintent, but there's something about it that makes me... me so sad that we're so afraid to assume that that could actually be a thing. That they could actually be together.
00:10:07
Speaker 1: Bros, interracial couples are not some new idea.
00:10:10
Speaker 2: No, but we are still rare. Even in New York City... Not that... I'm telling you. I've asked you. Take a look.
00:10:15
Speaker 1: Count.
00:10:16
Speaker 2: They... Even in New York City... It is still a rarity. It is still a rarity to see an interracial couple. It just is. And I will say that I think there is a fear of assumption. Like, I wouldn't want to presume maybe that'll make everybody feel awkward. I just think it's like a glaring example of this fear we all have of just saying it's okay and normalizing it. And that just makes me sad. And look, it doesn't just happen in restaurants anymore. It happens when we walk into retail stores all the time.
00:10:51
Speaker 1: Wait, what happened? What am I missing?
00:10:52
Speaker 2: All the time. I'll walk in. They'll say, hey, ma'am, are you looking for anything? And I was like, no. And they'll look at you and they'll say, sir, can I help you? They won't assume we're together.
00:11:02
Speaker 1: They greet me separately.
00:11:04
Speaker 2: They greet you separately.
00:11:06
Speaker 1: Okay, you're right. That does happen.
00:11:07
Speaker 2: It happens almost every time. We literally walk in together.
00:11:11
Speaker 1: Oh, look at your hands.
00:11:13
Speaker 2: And... And then somehow we get slightly separated and we're treated like.
00:11:17
Speaker 1: We didn't ever walk in together.
00:11:19
Speaker 2: Okay, maybe they didn't notice.
00:11:20
Speaker 1: I'll give them a pass. Maybe they didn't notice. I'll give them a pass.
00:11:24
Speaker 2: But I'm telling you, any time I've ever walked in two steps ahead, two steps behind.
00:11:29
Speaker 1: With your white man.
00:11:30
Speaker 2: With my white man, no one has ever presumed that they needed to greet us separately because we were not together. I'm telling you, anytime we walk into any establishment and even come in together and clearly are interacting with one another, no one will actually assume that we're a couple. And it's weird to me. I've never been in an interracial couple before in my life. So this is all new, and it is kind of shocking how we're regarded. It just is. Okay. Okay.
00:12:03
Speaker 1: This is one last thing I'm going to ask. I know you notice it. You're mindful of it. But I don't want to assign it to you. But you seem genuinely irked, annoyed, angered, pissed, put off. What is it that gets you to that place? This is not just a funny observation of yours. This is something that as we've gone along over years now, it really rubs you the wrong way.
00:12:34
Speaker 2: Yes, because I get just a tiny taste of how disrespected you must feel as a black man in America. And because I love you, I actually feel it as much as I can as a privileged white woman. But yes, I get a sense of it. And I am kind of blown away by it.
00:12:55
Speaker 1: Let me ask why you think them asking that question is a slight to me.
00:13:00
Speaker 2: Because they're assuming... That we're not together. Why wouldn't they? And I get greeted first. I usually get taken care of first.
00:13:11
Speaker 1: That's what you should.
00:13:12
Speaker 2: And they're like, sir, I'm sorry. Who are you and what do you need? It feels dismissive. And I hate it. And it makes me angry.
00:13:20
Speaker 1: Okay. That's fair.
00:13:25
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:13:25
Speaker 1: Well, stay with us, folks, because next I would really like to hear how We should handle it the next time this happens. Oh, and oh yeah, it's going to happen again.
00:13:44
Speaker 2: Welcome back, everyone, to Amy and TJ. So, all right, you teased what's going to happen next time we are approached by a waiter.
00:13:52
Speaker 1: How do you remember us handling it in the past?
00:13:56
Speaker 2: We usually just kind of laugh it off and say... No, I've got it. Or just kind of just reiterate, as we said earlier, no, no, it's right here.
00:14:09
Speaker 3: Okay.
00:14:09
Speaker 2: One bill.
00:14:10
Speaker 1: Is there not, can you not remember a time I stopped and I asked somebody, why did you assume we're not together? Is that not sounding familiar?
00:14:17
Speaker 2: I do feel like maybe you did it. I do think maybe you did it once.
00:14:22
Speaker 1: That's sounding familiar.
00:14:23
Speaker 2: And the waiter just laughed it off and was like, I just didn't know. Like, you know, just obviously that's a... Fair thing to say.
00:14:34
Speaker 1: How would you like to handle it moving forward? What's the right way to do it? It's okay to be curious. You don't have to be angry. But again, I am curious. I think we asked once, and I don't think we got a good answer. But this is one of those things. I am curious why someone makes that assumption and how they would answer it. I haven't been upset as every time it's happened. Only one of the two of us has gotten worked up.
00:14:57
Speaker 2: Right, but I'm curious. Have you ever, because I believe I have. Okay, all right, so I can say this. Ever. Before you were with me as your fiancé, your girlfriend, your fiancé, if you had a black woman on a date with you, or as your wife, whoever, did anyone ask you repeatedly enough where you noticed? Should we split the bill?
00:15:23
Speaker 1: That's right. I've gone to lunch with black lesbians and they still didn't assume we weren't together.
00:15:29
Speaker 2: Right.
00:15:30
Speaker 1: Never. No, no, no. I'm trying to think of a single time ever that I've been asked that question. Are you, should I split the bill when I am with, on a date of any kind?
00:15:39
Speaker 2: Every single time.
00:15:40
Speaker 3: All right.
00:15:41
Speaker 2: I mean, not every single time, but I would argue 50% of the time. I feel like that has happened. There have been times when there was even a high profile time where I, they knew who we were and they still asked it. And I just, we had a, a hookup at a restaurant and I, they asked us if we wanted to split the bill. I'm just, I feel like that it just, it's never happened when we were with our own race.
00:16:11
Speaker 1: Okay.
00:16:11
Speaker 2: So that is the question.
00:16:12
Speaker 1: How do you want to handle, what are we going to do moving forward? Cause it's going to happen again this week.
00:16:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it happened yesterday.
00:16:20
Speaker 1: It's going to happen.
00:16:22
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know what the right thing to do is because I wouldn't want them to feel shame or that they did something abhorrent. But I would actually genuinely want to know why they asked that. And would they ask that if I were black or if he were white? And I know that would immediately cause shame.
00:16:43
Speaker 1: But we don't want to do that.
00:16:44
Speaker 2: And you can't do that. But I don't know what the question could be where you wouldn't. make somebody feel terrible about their question.
00:16:52
Speaker 1: Okay, but I'm protecting the feelings of someone who has already made me feel like this. So I'm saying there's a way to respectfully just say, hey, why did you ask that? You just assume we're not together? I'm just curious. And that's okay to ask. That's not rude.
00:17:06
Speaker 2: I think that's probably the best way probably to ask.
00:17:09
Speaker 1: And this reminds me, you know this story well. This building, we had an incident downstairs.
00:17:16
Speaker 2: We did, we did.
00:17:17
Speaker 1: When we first moved in here, Robes, we walked in. The guy at the front desk did not know us at the time.
00:17:24
Speaker 2: Right.
00:17:24
Speaker 1: I'm carrying. We just come from the, what's the district you call it? The flower district.
00:17:28
Speaker 2: Oh, the flower district. Yeah.
00:17:29
Speaker 1: The garden district. The garden district. I was carrying a couple things. You, I'm not sure. You had a bag in your hand.
00:17:35
Speaker 2: You were being a gentleman. You were carrying all the heavy load, and I probably just had my purse. Fine. Whatever. You were walking behind me.
00:17:41
Speaker 1: We're going up the elevator.
00:17:43
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:17:44
Speaker 1: He doesn't recognize, according to him, either one of us. But he only says to you, is he with you? Now, at that point, I don't go crazy. I didn't throw a fit. I said, why did you ask her if I was with her instead of asking me if she was with me? Why is it you assumed she was okay to be here and I'm not if you don't recognize either one of us? Why did I get that treatment? He lost his mind. I never said race. I never said black. I never said white. I just said, why did you ask her and not me if you don't recognize either one of us? Went crazy.
00:18:21
Speaker 2: By the way, he wasn't white.
00:18:23
Speaker 1: He was from somewhere else, though.
00:18:24
Speaker 2: Correct. I'm just saying.
00:18:28
Speaker 1: He was from somewhere else. But to your point, still, that is one of those moments to where I was just curious about And he lost his mind. It was, yes. Okay. But those moments, babe, I was calm. I didn't get upset because I'm used to it.
00:18:44
Speaker 2: You were just asking a question.
00:18:46
Speaker 3: But no, no, no.
00:18:46
Speaker 1: But I say that, babe. When everything happens at the restaurants with these guys, I'm used to not being regarded. I'm used to not being taken seriously. I'm used to not being respected. I am used to somebody looking at me and thinking I'm not capable of paying for a meal or of having a good enough credit to buy this car. I'm used to it. You, yes, baby. And I think it's one of the greatest things in our relationship. And I think every white person in the world should have your experience. To have someone you love that's black and to go through life with them and you would see things differently.
00:19:22
Speaker 2: It's so true.
00:19:22
Speaker 1: For somebody you love and respect to go, wow, I had no idea. This is the type of crap you deal with every day.
00:19:31
Speaker 2: I didn't even understand when we first started hanging out. You're like, hey, can you go get the table? Like you would ask me to go to the Mater D. And I didn't get it at first. And you have always said to me, hey, can you handle the Airbnb and the Virgo? Because with a name like Lutilius Holmes... yeah, I don't know.
00:19:51
Speaker 1: My face there.
00:19:52
Speaker 2: What to expect.
00:19:53
Speaker 1: We do all this. We had a call. We think it wasn't quite what they call it, swatting. It wasn't that. But it was potentially. What we suspect somebody called.
00:20:03
Speaker 2: We had a swatting incident.
00:20:05
Speaker 1: Kind of a thing. And the cops are on, our front desk calls us and said, cops are on the way up. We're like, what the hell? You're like, what the hell are we doing? I said, baby, can you pick up your glass of wine, please? I was like, no, I don't want them to.
00:20:18
Speaker 2: See me with a glass of wine in my hand.
00:20:20
Speaker 1: You're thinking you don't want to be in trouble. I'm thinking I want them to see a very relaxed atmosphere to make sure they know everything is chill here. Black guy, white woman. They showed up here, what, Robes? The call of a, A teenager screaming or something?
00:20:38
Speaker 2: Some teenager who was acting inappropriately, who needed a welfare check. They thought that that teenager might have gone into our whatever.
00:20:47
Speaker 1: So my head first thing is cop, dangerous situation, walks in, opens the door, sees my black ass. robes will you please come take care.
00:20:57
Speaker 2: Of this one yes that's my and i even said come on in come look at the apartment you you gave me a side eye on that one.
00:21:03
Speaker 1: No like please by all means do everything look.
00:21:07
Speaker 3: Everywhere oh my god what it is rob this is another situation this is fascinating to me how things get you worked up that i is just every day a part of life since birth for me and it's It's fascinating.
00:21:22
Speaker 1: I'm glad we talk about it. I do, babe. I think most, I think more people need to just have somebody you love that's black, that you respect, that you will hear them about their experience and go, okay, I love you enough and respect you enough to know that's real.
00:21:35
Speaker 2: And I have to say, like, I could hear you say it and I believed you. I didn't not believe you. But then to actually experience it is altogether something different. That is true. So when you when you're with someone enough and you love someone, you will all of a sudden like, oh, and you don't even I don't know. It's not directed at me. It's only directed at someone I love. So I still don't fully know what it feels like. I just have a much better idea of what it feels like. I still don't know the true and full impact, but I have a much better idea of it and the fact that I get worked up about just that little thing. And I know that cracks you up to an extent because it's so small compared to the larger issue. But look, any step in that direction towards one another where there's a little better understanding of is a very important one. So look, anyone, any waiter, anyone who hears this, we don't fault you. And I don't know how I would have, I don't know. If I hadn't had my experience, if I were waiting on a couple, maybe I would have said the same thing. Maybe I would have assumed the same things. You don't know until you're in those shoes. But just a reminder, don't make assumptions, right? Oh, my God.
00:22:51
Speaker 1: Or no, make some about us. We are together. Assume we are.
00:22:56
Speaker 2: Yes, believe people when they show you who they are.
00:22:59
Speaker 1: There is nothing about us that anybody ever saw us out somewhere. There's no suggestion we're anything other than.
00:23:05
Speaker 2: They must just be colleagues.
00:23:06
Speaker 1: There's nothing to suggest. All right, well, this was not... We were supposed to do a Meghan Markle in Prince Harry.
00:23:11
Speaker 2: We were going to do a totally different, yes, episode. But look, this came off this weekend once again, and I think it's an important topic. We'll speak a little bit more about our experiences. It is a unique one.
00:23:23
Speaker 1: You're going to go out to dinner tonight?
00:23:24
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think I'm good. I think we've gone out enough tonight.
00:23:27
Speaker 1: All right.
00:23:29
Speaker 2: We've had already two meals out.
00:23:31
Speaker 1: Oh, my goodness. And here's the baby she's calling. All right, folks. We appreciate you. As always, I'm TJ. That's Robes. And we'll talk to you all soon.