Oct. 13, 2025
Insta Graham Official with Heather Graham... (S2 E18 “Ex and the City”)
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RSS Feed Fun fact Heather Graham appears in an episode in season 5 but today she is here to discuss her favorite episode of the series! The Austin Powers and Hangover star explains why she’s always rooting for Steve, and always frustrated by Big. Plus, Heather reveals the unexpected celebrity she watched Sex and the City with back in the day!
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00:00:01
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are you a Charlotte? Hi, welcome back to Are You a Charlotte? I love my guest today so much. It is Heather Graham. She has an incredible actress. She was on the show Sex and the City in the fifth season, but mostly she's on the show today because she's a superfan and she has so many thoughts and feelings and I have loved her work for so long. She was in to name just a few drugstore cowboy boogie nights, Austin Bowers, I mean the Hangover. I could go on and on and on. Her career has been fantastic and she is a joy. And this particular episode is a thrilling episode. It is called X and the City. It's the end of season two. It aired October third, nineteen ninety nine, which sounds like I'm making that up, but no. And the funny thing about this one is it's written and dred by Michael Patrick King, who then you know, went on to write and direct the movies and just like that, and we left him very much, and I think it might be one of our best all time episodes. I agree.
00:01:12
Speaker 2: I think it's my favorite episode ever.
00:01:14
Speaker 1: I think so too. I was rewatching it and one of the things about rewatching, which is interesting is that, of course, you know, when you're in something, you have your own memories, which might have to do with what was happening behind the scenes that day or you know, different things. Right, So I remember pieces of this episode and I didn't remember that they were all together in one episode.
00:01:33
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's really interesting we're talking about this today because of Robert Redford, you know, and.
00:01:37
Speaker 1: The way we were I mean that way we.
00:01:39
Speaker 2: Were seen at the end where you talk about Hubble and all that stuff, and he just died. And of course when an iconic, amazing person, I know.
00:01:47
Speaker 1: An amazing person, and I have to say, I have so much it takes so much comfort from the fact that he was eighty nine and he died in his sleep.
00:01:56
Speaker 2: No, he had a wonderful life. Look at all the incredible things he did.
00:02:00
Speaker 1: Know what a leader. Yeah, I mean like for us were roughly in the same decade of category of age. You know, that was who we looked at as He's probably one of my first crushes here, right, that was my first film I ever saw. My Mother is the way we were but cast I was four years old. She took me to the theaters because no one thought twice about this.
00:02:24
Speaker 2: Lucky I was not allowed to see like an R rated or PG.
00:02:30
Speaker 1: I don't even everyone's getting killed and I'm just sitting there. But I was so it's such a beautiful, beautiful film to look at. And I was so enthralled, of course with both of them probably and Robert, my god, and just the beauty of the film. I was like, fully, you know, it's a classic in love in every way with filmmaking, you know, and the power and their eyes and their souls.
00:02:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well, I feel like The Excellent City is one as a classic episode too. I mean when I go back and rewatch because sometimes whenever, like for me, it's like a comfort and also it relates the time of my life as well. But I watched those episodes and there's something about it that's so uplifting and inspiring, and that's one of my most inspiring episodes.
00:03:13
Speaker 1: I mean, really what I watched it. I had chills many times when I rewatched, And I mean I remember, of course Carrie in her white dress outside the plaza, because it's a very iconic image and it was so beautifully filmed. Yeah, but I had forgotten all of the other little details. I'd forgotten about the scene. We're going to get to it in the Pink Dress in eleven Madison, which is so good. I had forgotten that my horse riding was in that episode. I remember my horse riding through Central Park? Was that really you? Yeah? Well not the gallopy. I guess it's really a canter. But I did ride. I did write. I had to go to Staten Island for horseback riding lessons, which was old lucky.
00:03:51
Speaker 2: That must have been fun, right. It makes me think of the Staten Island episode.
00:03:55
Speaker 1: That's shit. It did seem like this. It wasn't that statn Isle, and there's a different statn Island where I was like, is anyone going to be able to find me and come get me? It was more like that.
00:04:06
Speaker 2: No, No, it wasn't funk.
00:04:08
Speaker 1: I mean it was fun because there were horses involved, and I do love horses, but it was more like that kind of part where you go to a part of New York stay and you're like, I had no idea that this existed. It was like that. It was like that, but I got to ride a horse, And then we went to the Claremont horse stables, which now have been closed down, but it was the weirdest, craziest where we're filming. In the episode, there was like a horse elevator because it's basically a building of horse stalls from the turn of the century that they finally had to close down because it just wasn't safe for the horses, right because there's like too many horses in there, and they're on this rickedy horse elevator that you can see in the background of that same and I know, and then the people would keep their horses there and ride their horse out into Central Park, Like have you ever been in the park and see someone ride by? So they came from that stable. Yeah, but now that stable's closed, so I don't know where they're coming from now. It's really interesting.
00:05:06
Speaker 2: The horse image at the end, to me, was such a beautiful thing that expressed to me what was so inspiring about the show was like this horse that can't be tamed, like maybe she's just a horse that needs to run free.
00:05:16
Speaker 1: And it was very cool seeing that in a.
00:05:18
Speaker 2: TV series, because there weren't that many show I could even think of a show that expressed like, you don't have to get married, you don't have.
00:05:25
Speaker 1: To have kids.
00:05:26
Speaker 2: You can just feel good about yourself, wear a fabulous dress, have great friends, and just enjoy your life regardless.
00:05:33
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I think for me as well. You know, when I read it, you know, nineteen ninety eight, I thought this is like nothing else, and I have to be on this thing and I want to live like this.
00:05:43
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:05:43
Speaker 1: I mean I didn't have the confidence that the characters had, and I didn't have like that much dating. I wasn't like bold.
00:05:50
Speaker 2: I mean, you had a lot of confidence to act and become a famous actress. Was acting okay, So you're saying you were more shy and like and.
00:05:59
Speaker 1: More like going home home. I was already sober at this point in life, so I wasn't. Oh my god, that's so funny.
00:06:04
Speaker 2: So you were doing that show sober where you guys drank cocktails.
00:06:07
Speaker 1: Exactly, I know. And it did come to me in a way. So I was telling you about the one picture. We were talking about whether we I don't know how we got into this, but whether we have pictures of ourselves up in our house because some interesses do, which I always find super fascinating, right, because we are kind of you know, there's a lot of images.
00:06:23
Speaker 2: That get to the celebrating whatever. But yeah, I've always kind of slightly hidden it. But I also think it's cool people that celebrate it too, because I do think.
00:06:31
Speaker 1: It's like an accomplishment, like where it's accomplishment very much. It's a hard, hard job, you know, if you do make it at all and have images taken of yourself, like put them up. But I never really feel that way, except for I was telling Heather. In my closet, I have a framed picture of the cover of Time magazine that has all four of us on it and it says who needs a husband?
00:06:52
Speaker 2: Question is so because I can't think of another series And maybe you've thought about it this more than me, But that celebrated single women just having a great time before sex and the city like they're like it was like, oh, they're sad there they can't find any guys po them.
00:07:07
Speaker 1: Like this was like, yeah, we're single and we're fabulous, right, I mean Richards, but I mean it's you have to really like look through decades.
00:07:16
Speaker 2: You're talking about Mary Tyler Moore exactly, her character Mary Richards and I feel like she's throwing her hat and she kind of fun, fabulous and you know, in her only other.
00:07:29
Speaker 1: And then there's the Golden Girls, yes, of course, which is a complicated thing to compare us to. I find people do because they dated. I guess I never really watched it. I think that's also why I'm coming.
00:07:41
Speaker 2: I know I never watch I watched every episode of Sex and the City, Thank you, multiple times. It's a very you know, it's funny because I didn't at first watch it when it first came out, but I was working in Prague. I was doing a movie and I was missing home, and I binge watched like every episode and I was I fell in love and I'm friends with Molly Shannon. I think she was one episode and she did divorce with Sarah. Yeah, that's right, they're friends and stuff. But I remember that, like, because that was before I feel like, you know, it was harder to like watch things on demand, like you had to be home to watch it or yeah, like you know you can miss it on demand. I can't remember if like you could record it on your VCR, but I remember the TV okay, But I remember running home. I was having dinner with Molly and we were like running home to catch the next episode.
00:08:25
Speaker 1: We're like, we can't miss it, you know, so sweet, and I wish the world was simple like that now now there's so much content, there's so much there's more content for women.
00:08:34
Speaker 2: I feel like, sure we were kind of just stuck watching like three channels, four channels.
00:08:39
Speaker 1: Yes, no, you're absolutely right. I mean there are a lot of other shows now with women as leads and with groups of women, though, like you have to look hard to find one that is about women celebrating being single. You don't what I'm saying.
00:08:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, my friend and I are actually working on something like that right now, working on a.
00:08:57
Speaker 1: Show like that.
00:08:58
Speaker 2: But but yeah, I feel now a lot of shows are very dark. It sort of feels like, oh, you can't take it seriously unless there's a murder or unless somebody is like.
00:09:05
Speaker 1: Super duper dark and screwed up.
00:09:07
Speaker 2: But there's not just like, you know, just like having fun and like women talking about stuff that you never saw women talking about on a TV show, like farting or like different kind of sexual craziness.
00:09:18
Speaker 1: Right right now, I know, I know, I mean there was Girls After Us, that's true, but it was after it was after definitely, and then there was Easter Ray's show, which was great.
00:09:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that was great, right, but I mean not that many, right, No, and.
00:09:31
Speaker 1: All of those are HBO, and I feel like there was some kind of intention on their part to continue having a version of that show, which I'm thankful for, right, because we need more versions of this show. So, and let's just talk briefly before we talk about the episode, which there's so much talk about. Tell us when you came on the show. Yes, so I'm in an episode.
00:09:51
Speaker 2: You know what's funny is that a lot of people talk to me about this because you know, I did a cameo.
00:09:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like it still comes up that people will be.
00:09:58
Speaker 2: Like, oh my god, I'm watching it, or you were on Sex and the City and so yeah, I'm friends with Nadia de Johnnie. She was the face in that episode that the one who was oh you dated Aid and then she makes the face. So, and she was really good friends with a lot of writers on the show. She was friends with Michael Patrick King lose to Chillo. I think she actually helped Lose to Chillo get that job. Oh wow, and all the fabulous people and so yeah, so I did a cameo and Willie Garson was actually a friend of mine. I used to live next door to him. I know, I'm very sad he's not around anymore, but but no, I was.
00:10:30
Speaker 1: It was fun being on the show.
00:10:31
Speaker 2: And one of my really fun memories of being on the show was, you know, I think Sara Jessica's very cool.
00:10:37
Speaker 1: And then I got to meet.
00:10:37
Speaker 2: Her and she was so kind and I was asking her how do you wear the high heels all the time? I find them so uncomfortable, Like how do you do it? And she was being so sweet, and then she sent me a gift of like there was like a pedicure foot massage place in the village, and she sent me a gift certificate to go get a foot massage. And I'm like, that was like incredibly generous.
00:10:55
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, she's a sweetheart. Yes, it was really sweet. That's good. So when you come on, tell me what you do because I can't remember.
00:11:03
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, basically it's the whole episode is about, you know, and I have to rewatch. I haven't recently seen it, but basically she's in the bathroom and my friend Nadia, she plays a booker for Saturday Night Live. Oh yea, yeah yeah, And so they say something about Aid in it and she goes, oh, you're a Carrie and then she makes a face like like ooh, you really screwed him over basically, And then then Carrie gets paranoid like, oh my god, is everyone think am I a jerk?
00:11:28
Speaker 1: Was I a jerk? Blah blah blah blah.
00:11:30
Speaker 2: And then at the very end she meets Naddy in the park with me and it's like, oh, she's with Heather Graham. She's this booker for Saturday Night Live. And she goes, oh, this is carry and I go and I do the face and it's all about her just being paranoid like our people gotta being about.
00:11:45
Speaker 1: Her being bad. Oh I can't wait to get there. Yeah yeah, yeah, when you get here? How interesting? I mean, as much as I really, I really previous to doing this podcast, thought that I was very knowledgeable about our show and all the plots and everything. So not. So yeah, yeah, you're in it. You can't focus on everything. You're exhausted.
00:12:04
Speaker 2: And when you go back and rewatch, you see how smart the writers were, like even all the horse imagery they placed through this episode, Like with your character and at the final horse imagery at the end, which is so memorable.
00:12:14
Speaker 1: It was really cool. I agree. So you know, Michael Patrick's genius, right, I mean, all the other.
00:12:19
Speaker 2: Writers, I mean they managed to do like have a lot of humor, sexy, but also this poignancy and this kind of fresh point of view about women and dating and culturally like what we women can hope for.
00:12:32
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely, and also I mean, yeah, there's just so many details that tie in together. And of course I just remember my own like like, oh my god, I get to ride a horse. Oh my god, I've got to go, you know, practice again because I've written before for parts. You know, they always have a lot of stress. The horse wrangler doesn't trust actors, I get it right, and you have to go out and prove yourself with the horse wrangler or whatever. And that beautiful bridge that they chose fartiful. I love the park so much, so it was like so magical to get to do that. And I think there was another horse riding scene that they cut, which it's fine, it was, I think. I mean, when I look at the episodes, this is also one of those episodes where we're really getting it together writing wise, where because.
00:13:17
Speaker 2: It changed so much from the beginning of the first season to the end of the second. It went from being like everyone's talking to the camera and.
00:13:23
Speaker 1: There's other people, random people on the street, supposedly with their actors, and then now we're like the voice over says things like, you know, meanwhile uptown to Samantha. You know. It's very economical in.
00:13:38
Speaker 2: Terms of it's more focused on the main characters, which I think was better than having a bunch of just like people on the street going like, well, sex in New York City, blah blah blah blah.
00:13:45
Speaker 1: Right. I mean the joy of that though, is also that HBO allowed us to do that.
00:14:01
Speaker 2: For me, the other best thing about the show is you'd have all these moments where people are going through the ups and downs with their romantic lives. And I loved all the story with you in com MacLaughlin and then you're you know, ending up with Evan and stuff. It was so great. But but just that you go through all these ups and downs and then you'd think, oh, she's going to get back together with a guy like in a romantic comedy. But then they would all just hang out together and have a great time. Yeah, which one of my other favorite ones is the Kaka Doodle Do, where you guys are at the very end. It ends with you guys and the drag queens on the roof and they's just like they had a very lovely life. You know, you guys, We're all dancing around the roof, so that it was kind of just about like the friends enjoying their friendships and just happy, you know, without being like, oh, the movie needs to end with like a wedding and like a woman with a pregnant belly.
00:14:42
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and I do think that there was this stress which I totally understand from the fans when we did end the first series that we were all paired off and people felt like that was a betrayal, and I fully got that, But I also feel like for the writers, you know, at that point, they've been kind of living this and they felt like Carrie wanted right to be chosen.
00:15:05
Speaker 2: She did say, and the most important relationship is the one you have with yourself.
00:15:09
Speaker 1: She did.
00:15:09
Speaker 2: So she ended up that even though everyone was.
00:15:11
Speaker 1: You know, right, and I know Michael Patrick feels very strongly that that is the through line to all of our you know, the first show, the films, the second show. That's the through line to all of it. But for me, the other thing about that is, well, you can't really necessarily film someone just being happy with themselves at home as a film, you know what I'm saying, right, So it manifests itself in many ways, right, Like you want to see them in life, and you want to see that get challenge and you want to see that go through things and how real is it?
00:15:42
Speaker 2: Is?
00:15:43
Speaker 1: There yet another all.
00:15:44
Speaker 2: The plots with you on Commaclachland where you got him like masturbating and then you took your writing.
00:15:48
Speaker 1: Pictures and put it over the jugs. I honestly some of that is blacked out. I'm going to have to watch it. But it was so stressful because like, you're really in it. You're really really in it in so many ways. You know what i mean saying you're not right.
00:16:00
Speaker 2: I'm sure from your point of view, your character, it's really stressful and hard, but from an outsider it's kind of funny. But you know what is my favorite moment of you in the whole series, what I'm going right now is that when you're like, You're like, where is mister Wright.
00:16:14
Speaker 1: I've been trying to find.
00:16:15
Speaker 2: It for so long and they're like, my hair hurts, or again, like what.
00:16:18
Speaker 1: Was it I've been dating since I was fifteen? Where is he my hair hurts? Or maybe in different order, you know what? It was really great about that. That was when I remember we haven't gotten to that yet. I think it's season three, and I remember I was so excited because I was getting more storylines, right, we really into it. And that was after the Staten Island, which I think is the first episode of season three, The Fireman, Yeah, and I'm we're all hungover because I dance on the you know, right, I'm all crazy or maybe in the bark in the bar and I'm like, I'm pretty, I'm a catch. Remember that whole thing? I think? Is that right? Isn't that Easton? Yeah? So they I'm hungover. So I'm hungover and they said, you know, you're not going to wear any makeup, and I was like, yeah, it's so exciting. And I remember getting there and thinking like I looked really horrible, and I remember thank you saying like you look great. You should never get any air makeup, and I was, oh my god, how manzy. And then the fun part of that was that. Right after that is when we started getting nominated for awards, right and when they would nominate me, they would show that clip and I would get to hear the whole audience. Last that's fun.
00:17:30
Speaker 2: I think it's relatable as a woman you're like, because I think a lot of times were fed this idea like, oh, you're going to meet this like night and shining armor, like in a fairy tale, and you're going to have your beat feel so happy and the rest of your likes going to be happy. And you're like, no, no, no, for sure. I mean maybe there's some people that have found like, but nobody has that complete and nobody is.
00:17:48
Speaker 1: Not going to even if you meet the person, it's just going to be happy.
00:17:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, such a but it had disillusionment where I think when you're you grow up thinking well, if I do this, I try to look really good and I do this and I date right, like, I'll find this person and then I'll be so happy and it'll be all done.
00:18:06
Speaker 1: You know, it's not all done. That was partly why we wanted to do and just like that because even though Charlotte is happily married to Harry and that hasn't changed it doesn't mean that life is over, right, Like what if she wants to go back to work. What if there's stuff going on with their kids? You know, Carrie, you know, what if someone that you found and you went through all this hell to be with and then they might die. That happened to my friends.
00:18:28
Speaker 2: You know, they were so happy and they were kind of like the iconic couple where we're like, look, these people are happy, they have it. And he died also, so I know, and I mean, and.
00:18:36
Speaker 1: Then everyone was mad at us. But on the same hand, if you live long enough, this is what starts to happen. This is how life is. You cannot predict it. There's no like stress free route really for anyone that I know of, right, you just have to find out what you actually really want, which I think is a very big question. I know, I agree for yes, and I hope that that is what I'm I mean, we're still finding ourselves through this, right, And I think so interesting to look at Carrie and beg and this episode where is when we learn that he's engaged to Natasha and her different struggles with it, and then at the end, you know, and I mean, we're going to get there in the rewatch, but the theme of what we're talking about when she said she refers to you know, your girl is lovely hubble, right, which is the callback to the way we were and Robert Redford Barbara Streisan and he says, I don't get it, and she says, and you never did, right, It is so good.
00:19:36
Speaker 2: It's such a good line, right, and you never got her?
00:19:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, he doesn't deserve her, Yeah, you know.
00:19:44
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:19:45
Speaker 1: I mean obviously we go through many things later and it works out differently, but like in that moment, and he's also wearing this brown suit and I'm like, oh, I mean I also think and not that she hasn't been lauded and awarded, but like Sarah, Jessica is so good. Yeah, she's great. I mean the depth, Like in that scene with him at the end, you know, when she does say and you never did, she delivers it so lightly. Well, it's so relatable.
00:20:12
Speaker 2: I mean, who hasn't sat around with her girlfriends talking about a breakup and just feeling confused and.
00:20:17
Speaker 1: Trying to like process it.
00:20:19
Speaker 2: And then just I think the moment at the end was her just deciding to feel good about herself even though that relationship didn't work out and to feel how amazing she is and she doesn't need that guy to affirm her that she can just absolutely affirm herself basically that he didn't even.
00:20:33
Speaker 1: Get her right, you know, like after two years of her stressing about him and trying so hard and doing this and doing that and trying to get him to talk and you know, following him around and you different things, right, and then for her to finally go like, oh, yeah, you're with that beautiful but kind of simple girl, and you're wearing a brown suit, you know, and I'm amazing, you know, like she is. She doesn't have to say it, it's just how it is, right. And then the comparison to the Barbari States and Rebert Redford relationship in the way we were that we basically say, which I had also kind of forgotten. That whole scene is super interesting with all four of us where we're kind of re enacting and Samantha.
00:21:15
Speaker 2: Has so she turns and looks at the car.
00:21:19
Speaker 1: I can't believe there's a scene to be but it's also kind of adorable because it's such an unusual position for her to be in, right, but not knowing everything about everything, you know what I mean. But I love when we're when we're retelling the story of it to Samantha and we say, you know, Barbaras is there with her curly hair, and she's really complicated, and then he ends up with the other lady who has straight hairs, really simble, which is obviously Charlotte.
00:21:44
Speaker 2: That's fine, but yeah, that's just like we know as opposed to you know, Bridgin moynihan, who is a lovely person. I know her and I with her. You know, they didn't develop that character where you really cared about her or knew her that.
00:21:57
Speaker 1: No, absolutely, and that's unfortunate so many ways. And she and I talked about that because I do feel like it was kind of messed up what Carrie did.
00:22:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, they both kind of were so nice to her.
00:22:09
Speaker 1: No, no, and she didn't deserve that, you know. But that's partly why we wanted to have her on just like that too, to kind of have a like give her some credit, you know, that character, of course, And I do love Bridget and she played she played that character so well. And the thing she told me, which was funny, and then we're gonna rewatch the thing that she told me. That was funny was she didn't have any idea what it was, or they'd give her like two pages or that she'd come back like they just call her and say like, are you available and she say yes. There was no contract.
00:22:38
Speaker 2: Wow, So they didn't let her read the whole script. That is horrible as an actor, I know.
00:22:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, and look at how she was I know, right, like I think she just brought she's.
00:22:47
Speaker 2: Kind of I mean, she's so beautiful and she has a real elegance. So if you were dating a guy and then he started dating her, and especially if you know she's younger or whatever as in the story, yeah, that would be so threatening.
00:22:59
Speaker 1: And you know, and also she's just so different. She's so cool perfect, there's like a perfect coolness about her.
00:23:07
Speaker 2: You know, she's so perfectly into the waspy world of.
00:23:10
Speaker 1: Yes, I mean you can see why, you know what I mean, which is I mean it was perfect casting. So she's just so good. Yeah, and she brought that, which is amazing. All right, let's do this technical rewatch part. That was really funny cool Okay, the X and the City. Okay, this is fun because a lot everyone has an amazing storyline, which is hard to do, really hard with four you know, leads, right, So we begin I didn't remember any of this. Carrie and Miranda are out there. They're at a bodega. They're debating dish you by the five dollars flowers the last three days or the ten dollar flowers that last five days. It's all very funny and relatable and real. And then all of a sudden, Miranda looks down the street and see Steve coming with the basketball. It is so adorable and like a little child, she turns and she runs away, which is so cute. And that's when you kind of really realize. And again I'm rewatching this whole relationship and thinking how incredible it is so beautifully written to Steve.
00:24:13
Speaker 2: Miranda and so lovable, and it's cool how Miranda is like she's kind of this like strong career woman. But then she has this other side, which is like, you know, it's adorable.
00:24:22
Speaker 1: Definitely, And I think you really see that clearly here because they've been broken up, right, so she's seeing him and her response is to literally run with Carrie, which is so funny and not Miranda, Like that's kind of how you know that this is not her regular relationship. This is something more, and she's just struggling within, like what does that mean for me? You know, because she was so rooting for Steve.
00:24:44
Speaker 2: When I was watching the show, Steve, you know, I.
00:24:47
Speaker 1: Was not rooting for Steve. You Originally, I don't know what I thought. I just thought, like, I just thought it was odd. But when I look back on it, I'm blown over Number one by how incredible he is. And number two is just beautiful writing. They're different, but they're complementary, and that's what she needs. She needs some grounding and some optimism so sweet, so sweet, it just cuts.
00:25:16
Speaker 2: Through her like kind of you know, her tough atitude, her.
00:25:21
Speaker 1: Stick, you know what I'm saying. And I think, like, you know, I do feel sad when I look back because I know what's coming, which people definitely had a lot of feelings about. I know it is sad. It is sad, but I mean, sometimes things don't work out all right. Back to the episode back. This is the funny thing too, about looking back, because we have had this joy of getting to create these characters for so incredibly long, and it's crazy to think that this aired in nineteen ninety nine. That is wild.
00:26:03
Speaker 2: I mean, that's so cool that it culturally is still people are still watching it.
00:26:07
Speaker 1: It's so true. I have a question. Yeah, so I always had a house here in LA and I would go to work in New York, and then I would come back here to like rest, right and then in between seasons. Definitely. And one time I think I was at a coffee Bean and Tea Leaf, possibly on Sunset Boulevard, and I think you were there, and I think you were there with Heath Ledger.
00:26:28
Speaker 2: Yes, I dated him, and in fact, I think we might have watched the show together, and I think he actually really liked it. I remember us watching it and him being like, I can relate to this, because I was like, I don't know, because sometimes you try to get guys to watch it, and some guys loved it, but other guys would be.
00:26:40
Speaker 1: Like, I don't know.
00:26:41
Speaker 2: That's a girl show, of course, but no, I remember watching the show with him.
00:26:45
Speaker 1: We were standing there in line and I'm by myself, and you know that thing like when you're newly famous and you're like, oh my god, they're famous. You're looking at them, but you I think I know about you. I like forget that I'm fan, Like, oh, my god, I'm talking to shoot. At the time, you too, were just like this ray of light in this coffee bean. I do remember that. And you were like kind of like giggling and touching each other, and I was just like like just like like hold it together, like I was just you. I wish you would have talked to I know, I wish I would have too. It's one of those times where you're like, darn, I should not have been shy. But also I felt protective, like I didn't want to call attention to you because you seemed very free, do you know me nice? I was very in love with him. Yeah, I know. He's kind of amazing. Yeah, I mean, and the two of you looked so similar and beautiful. What I'm saying. Yeah, I was just like, wow, I'm like bowled over by these people and I have to just stand here.
00:27:49
Speaker 2: And I got a lot of cool pictures of when I dated him, and I thought at one point like maybe I should do like a photo album, but I think people would look I'm not really sure because I don't really Then they were like, you have to get the family permission. But I have some really cool pictures of when we dated.
00:28:03
Speaker 1: I mean, of course you would want to be respectful, but at the same time, like what an incredible light and gift he was and such a sad sad you know, too short. His life was cut too short by pure accident, which was like horrible and tragic. But do you remember that? And I had forgotten. I was going to ask you before we started if it was okay, But no.
00:28:25
Speaker 2: No, I feel proud that I dated him. Yeah, yeah, sure, you.
00:28:28
Speaker 1: Had a special so fun.
00:28:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm glad you guys look so I wish he was still alive.
00:28:33
Speaker 1: That would be nice, you know, Yeah, I know it's terrible.
00:28:37
Speaker 2: It's so talented, it is some of these really bright lights kind of you know, don't get to live so long. You know, if you look at like I do, iconic, you know, Jimi Hendrix, Jannis Joplin, you know, different amazing.
00:28:50
Speaker 1: Oh, there's so many artists. Yeah, that's why when you think about Robert Redford, it's really amazing.
00:28:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, he had a long I mean, if you die when you're like ninety, that's a good life.
00:28:58
Speaker 1: And he were to pay.
00:29:00
Speaker 2: You didn't have cancer, you didn't like suffer for Alzheimer's or something like that.
00:29:05
Speaker 1: It's so incredible. It's so incredible and he obviously deserves that, and I hope he's you know, yeah with the trees, totally right.
00:29:12
Speaker 2: I didn't need him once at Sunday, did he. He had a little thing around the me too time and he had me come and talk about it, and I just remember he was really respectful and he has that amazing energy where it just feels like he can quietly be there, be this presence and you can really just feel this amazing energy. Amazing and of course out of Africa too, that's another amazing Robert Redford, did you want to have the funniest thing? I watched it recently because I went to Africa for the first time, which, oh, by the way, you did that show in Africa.
00:29:39
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, times. I was jealous.
00:29:41
Speaker 2: I'm one of the producers I work with. I'm like, what an incredible job. You got to go on a safari in Africa.
00:29:46
Speaker 1: But you worked with the producer there who was on my movie? Yeah lackey, No, no, not the producer there. He lives here.
00:29:53
Speaker 2: What's the name again, it's fine whatever, yeah.
00:29:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yea, yeah, he's yeah, he is.
00:29:59
Speaker 2: But but but no, so I rewatched out of Africa. And then I was going back and reading about it and uh, and I was reading there were these.
00:30:06
Speaker 1: Reviews when it came out where they were trashing the movie Can You Be?
00:30:09
Speaker 2: And they were trashing his performance, and I was thinking, you, that's why you can't take any reviews seriously, because it's like, you know.
00:30:16
Speaker 1: Oh, yes, that was an amazing performance.
00:30:19
Speaker 2: He's like anconic chacter in that movie, right, and her as well, And you know they didn't enough to get that part.
00:30:26
Speaker 1: I had to go buy a push up bra like turn herself up for Sydney Pollock. What on earth our business?
00:30:32
Speaker 2: So Sydney Pollack has done some great movies incredibly.
00:30:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just saying no, but it is.
00:30:40
Speaker 2: Hard to learn about do that, you know.
00:30:42
Speaker 1: And that then people criticize Redford.
00:30:44
Speaker 2: Oh and they were talking about how the movie wasn't good and criticizing that he didn't do it, and I'm like, what are they talking about?
00:30:51
Speaker 1: People are insane? You know, That's actually why I ended up having my obsession. I mean, it was the leaping off point of me wanting to go and you know, then wow, you know, watching.
00:31:03
Speaker 2: That guy, They're like, I got to go to Africa.
00:31:06
Speaker 1: Definitely, and it is. It is. We're going to talk about that later. Okay, back to the episode. All right, we're on the street, we see Steve. He's adorable in his basketball outfit, and Miranda runs off, which is kind of funny. So then they go to we all have work together. We're having a Basically, we're in the classic coffee shop scene. Now we have it established. For a while, we were in different restaurants. Now we have our set, we're in the scene. Those days would be very long days, as you can imagine, so you guys always ate at the same restaurant we did. It was interesting, okay, okay. Previous to us building our coffee shop set, you were in like different a sort of place. But then we got our set and we could just be there for eighteen hours and film every angle with beautiful lighting. So that was great. The big thing that I love to think about from this, and I think it's still a really big issue, is can people be friends with exes? And in general, I think there's also a subtext of can you have guy friends as a woman, you know, a straight woman. I guess I should say I don't know if that matters or or not, but you know, and basically Samantha is like women are for friendships and men are for fucking just very Samantha, Yes, very Samantha. I know, But I mean I personally love my male friends, right. I have.
00:32:26
Speaker 2: One of my best friends is a guy. He gives me hope and like the whole gender, He's one of the nicest, best people I've ever known. He is like a brother. I love his wife, I love their daughter. So I think for sure they can be friends.
00:32:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think it's important. Yeah, I would go in terms of being friends with your ax.
00:32:41
Speaker 2: I think it's possible, but maybe that's slightly more complicated. But being friends with the guy likes right, I mean, I think, what.
00:32:46
Speaker 1: Do you think X? I think you have to be careful that you're being fully honest with yourself about what you're doing, right, Like, are you really just hoping that you're going to get back together? For me, it would be am I still codependently taking care of this person interest in which I can totally relate to. Seeing then I have to cut that. I don't want to. I never want to leave anywhere.
00:33:10
Speaker 2: What they talk about an episode like why should you throw away you spent so much time with this person and then it's not working, You're like, and then you just throw them away and never talk to them again.
00:33:18
Speaker 1: I know, I agree, I agree, But that's also how I've gotten into some not great situations where like I'm still on the phone hearing about whatever, you know what I mean, and I don't really have energy for that. That sounds bad. Why am I? Why am I taking care of this person in motional you know what? An occasional happy birthday? You know, that's fine, So glad you're doing well. I always want to be civil. I mean, there's very few that I wouldn't want to be civil to gosh.
00:33:47
Speaker 2: So you're not exactly like Charlotte, no, no, no.
00:33:50
Speaker 1: But I definitely am.
00:33:54
Speaker 2: Are you a Charlotte that I am like?
00:33:58
Speaker 1: Half Charlotte? Half care right? Okay?
00:34:01
Speaker 2: Yeah?
00:34:02
Speaker 1: Yeah? Should we just ask you now too, because okay, yeah, well I kind of it is sort of.
00:34:06
Speaker 2: When I was younger, I think I did relate more to the other characters because I think I was rebelling against a traditional upbringing, you know. But I do think now that I have incorporated more more Charlotte into my personality.
00:34:18
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, but when you say other characters. Do you mean Samantha, Do you mean Miranda? I mean, I could relate to Carrie.
00:34:24
Speaker 2: I think if Carrie is kind of like a romantic has like you know, her love life is kind of going through all these ups and downs. I could relate to Miranda, who's like kind of a career woman, who's just like I want to have a career, I want to be independent, I want to try to achieve things. I want to be self sufficient and related to that, right, And I could relate to just I mean, Samantha just be I mean, I mean I was never that wild, but I definitely you know, it was a little wild.
00:34:49
Speaker 1: Sure, sure, sure. What's great about Samantha is that she just owns it.
00:34:55
Speaker 2: You know. No, I guess, but an alter ego part of me would have loved to be more wild.
00:34:59
Speaker 1: But do you remember your Lenny Kravitz American woman? Yeah, it was like so powerful and so in a Samantha vane, you know.
00:35:09
Speaker 2: No, I think when I grew up, I was a nerdy kid, awkward. I was not seen as as pretty, so I did feel like as an actor, I.
00:35:15
Speaker 1: Was pretending to be this like sexual when.
00:35:18
Speaker 2: In reality I was pretty much just like I had boyfriends and you know whatever. But then I felt like I played at this other side, which is like this sexual art alter ego. Do you know that song called alter ego? Yeah, that's amazing.
00:35:31
Speaker 1: No, I do feel like I acted out.
00:35:32
Speaker 2: Like an alternate side of myself.
00:35:35
Speaker 1: What about roller Girl? Right? So that's that.
00:35:38
Speaker 2: That's that right, that's incredible perform I.
00:35:42
Speaker 1: Mean I love that performances. Sometimes I just think about you bashing that guy. Oh my god, that was a fun scene. Start right. I want to do things like that, you know, like we need places to I just had. There were two gates we used.
00:36:00
Speaker 2: I donated one pair to the Academy Museum, and then this other pair was bought by my friend, this guy, this super successful director, Mike Flanagan. I'm working with him on this new Carry TV show. But he bought that the main pair.
00:36:12
Speaker 1: That I wore.
00:36:12
Speaker 2: He just bought them because he owns all this movie memorabilia. So he owns like the roller skates and like an outfit.
00:36:19
Speaker 1: It's really funny. He sat me a picture. He's like, is this what you were in the movie?
00:36:21
Speaker 2: And I'm like yeah, and he's like, okay, I'm buying it.
00:36:25
Speaker 1: Sometimes I wonder, you know what I mean, like sometimes because there's like six two two's that supposedly we're all in the beginning, and I know, yeah, everyone tells me. When they tell me that they have it, I'm like, okay, wow, because I think Michael Patrick has it. Hanger but okay, I know maybe there was more than one Maybee. Who knows. But I just had such a flashback of that, of that part and the joy of watching.
00:36:50
Speaker 2: That, you know, that was really fun.
00:36:53
Speaker 1: I mean, so yeah, okay, back to the show. I'm distracting. You just stopped its greater you're kidding. I mean, it's a joy. It's a joy to be having you here talking about it.
00:37:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fun, you No, honestly, it's really fun because I can't even tell you how much the show really did mean to me.
00:37:10
Speaker 1: So thanks. It's incredible to be part of something that means things to people.
00:37:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it is.
00:37:15
Speaker 1: It is the best part of our business for sure. It pretty much evens out all the hard anything.
00:37:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, it does, it does, It really does.
00:37:22
Speaker 1: And we're just so lucky. Okay, So here we are, we're at the table. We're discussing, you know. Uh, and Carrie says it kind of a deep thing, which is what you were just referring to. She says, if you love someone and you break up, where does the love go? And Samantha says something like to the other girlfriend. But I mean really it is a deep question, like if you've really spent time with that person and gotten to know that person kind of you know, like had a really deep exchange with that person, like then it's just over bam, like how why? You know? But this has also led me down some bad roads. So so this I relate to this.
00:37:58
Speaker 2: I really want to hear much.
00:38:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, part of the podcast, I'm just I'm so back to the Charlotte part, the part of me, and it is kind of what you refer to about Carrie being a romantic. She is a romantic too, right in her own way, Like it looks different for her than it looks for Charlotte. Right, Charlotte is much more of kind of what society tells you like marriage, family, kids, puffy wedding dress, you know, blah blah blah. I never had that, but I do have the romantic side where like it's hard for me to let go. You know, I believe in love, you know, I'm you know, might beleeve too much, you know, when all the signs would be telling me like get out.
00:38:36
Speaker 2: Like I can go into a fantasy in my head and like go, well, you know, not always see reality.
00:38:41
Speaker 1: One hundred percent as can I, as can I, And I mean I think that's important to be able to do that, certainly for our jobs, but I think also for life, right, because you can't like kind of imagine the possibilities, then it's just hard. Life is hard. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, So I kind of have one it in both both camps. But sometimes when I'm watching back and I look at everyone's point of view, and then those scenes where we do all have four very distinct points of view, I can kind of go with everybody, you know what I mean, Like I'm like, oh, yeah, she's right, it's got a good point. Yeah. And then I'm like, oh no, she's right too. And then I'm like, oh, yeah, we're all right, which is kind of good. That's good writing, right, So then oh, we have such a great, great shot at Sara Jessica. I love to watch the shots of Sara Jessica evolve over time of her writing and her wearing a sort of different underwear she's so good with her body and this one is hot. But it's just a beautiful if you look at the beginning of our show and then like where it goes visually, Yeah, it's just incredible. Yeah. And again that was HBO allowing us and our dps, and I remember different directors coming in and kind of like upping the game, you.
00:39:47
Speaker 2: Know, and wardrobe of course totally.
00:39:50
Speaker 1: But also we had to get more money, you know, like when Molly came on, she reminded me that we had ten thousand dollars for the whole first season. What how did you guys do it?
00:40:00
Speaker 2: Don't know, don't know, got a bunch of free stuff?
00:40:03
Speaker 1: We didn't because no one knew who we were and what we were doing. The Fendy bag was the first one, right, and that was Sara Jessica kind of you know, just using her relationships and getting one and then it you know, went from there. And she would she would so sweetly make so much effort to show it, Like I remember doing scenes where she put it on her plate, we like, are you sure she's like just till the food comes.
00:40:28
Speaker 2: I remember like the episode that I did that she was and she was pregnant and so she was trying to hide her pregnant belly with a purse and that was hard.
00:40:34
Speaker 1: Because her stomach. It so didn't work because I think she brought her her Kelly or Burke or whatever, and she she had it and it worked. But then the sun would hit and her shadow on the street would be pregnant. I know that would of course, of course, good for her and good for them for trying. And then at a certain point they were like, everybody go home, so free obviously, you know. Yeah, and also Cynthia was pregnant at that point. Yeah, a little bit later, but the same year, so they were like, just go home, we'll see you in a year. And it all worked out. At the time, it seemed very stressful, but it all worked out. Okay. Heather Graham is just too much fun. So she's going to continue breaking down Exit the City with us. So please come back and hear part two with Heather Graham of Are You a Charlotte
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are you a Charlotte? Hi, welcome back to Are You a Charlotte? I love my guest today so much. It is Heather Graham. She has an incredible actress. She was on the show Sex and the City in the fifth season, but mostly she's on the show today because she's a superfan and she has so many thoughts and feelings and I have loved her work for so long. She was in to name just a few drugstore cowboy boogie nights, Austin Bowers, I mean the Hangover. I could go on and on and on. Her career has been fantastic and she is a joy. And this particular episode is a thrilling episode. It is called X and the City. It's the end of season two. It aired October third, nineteen ninety nine, which sounds like I'm making that up, but no. And the funny thing about this one is it's written and dred by Michael Patrick King, who then you know, went on to write and direct the movies and just like that, and we left him very much, and I think it might be one of our best all time episodes. I agree.
00:01:12
Speaker 2: I think it's my favorite episode ever.
00:01:14
Speaker 1: I think so too. I was rewatching it and one of the things about rewatching, which is interesting is that, of course, you know, when you're in something, you have your own memories, which might have to do with what was happening behind the scenes that day or you know, different things. Right, So I remember pieces of this episode and I didn't remember that they were all together in one episode.
00:01:33
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's really interesting we're talking about this today because of Robert Redford, you know, and.
00:01:37
Speaker 1: The way we were I mean that way we.
00:01:39
Speaker 2: Were seen at the end where you talk about Hubble and all that stuff, and he just died. And of course when an iconic, amazing person, I know.
00:01:47
Speaker 1: An amazing person, and I have to say, I have so much it takes so much comfort from the fact that he was eighty nine and he died in his sleep.
00:01:56
Speaker 2: No, he had a wonderful life. Look at all the incredible things he did.
00:02:00
Speaker 1: Know what a leader. Yeah, I mean like for us were roughly in the same decade of category of age. You know, that was who we looked at as He's probably one of my first crushes here, right, that was my first film I ever saw. My Mother is the way we were but cast I was four years old. She took me to the theaters because no one thought twice about this.
00:02:24
Speaker 2: Lucky I was not allowed to see like an R rated or PG.
00:02:30
Speaker 1: I don't even everyone's getting killed and I'm just sitting there. But I was so it's such a beautiful, beautiful film to look at. And I was so enthralled, of course with both of them probably and Robert, my god, and just the beauty of the film. I was like, fully, you know, it's a classic in love in every way with filmmaking, you know, and the power and their eyes and their souls.
00:02:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well, I feel like The Excellent City is one as a classic episode too. I mean when I go back and rewatch because sometimes whenever, like for me, it's like a comfort and also it relates the time of my life as well. But I watched those episodes and there's something about it that's so uplifting and inspiring, and that's one of my most inspiring episodes.
00:03:13
Speaker 1: I mean, really what I watched it. I had chills many times when I rewatched, And I mean I remember, of course Carrie in her white dress outside the plaza, because it's a very iconic image and it was so beautifully filmed. Yeah, but I had forgotten all of the other little details. I'd forgotten about the scene. We're going to get to it in the Pink Dress in eleven Madison, which is so good. I had forgotten that my horse riding was in that episode. I remember my horse riding through Central Park? Was that really you? Yeah? Well not the gallopy. I guess it's really a canter. But I did ride. I did write. I had to go to Staten Island for horseback riding lessons, which was old lucky.
00:03:51
Speaker 2: That must have been fun, right. It makes me think of the Staten Island episode.
00:03:55
Speaker 1: That's shit. It did seem like this. It wasn't that statn Isle, and there's a different statn Island where I was like, is anyone going to be able to find me and come get me? It was more like that.
00:04:06
Speaker 2: No, No, it wasn't funk.
00:04:08
Speaker 1: I mean it was fun because there were horses involved, and I do love horses, but it was more like that kind of part where you go to a part of New York stay and you're like, I had no idea that this existed. It was like that. It was like that, but I got to ride a horse, And then we went to the Claremont horse stables, which now have been closed down, but it was the weirdest, craziest where we're filming. In the episode, there was like a horse elevator because it's basically a building of horse stalls from the turn of the century that they finally had to close down because it just wasn't safe for the horses, right because there's like too many horses in there, and they're on this rickedy horse elevator that you can see in the background of that same and I know, and then the people would keep their horses there and ride their horse out into Central Park, Like have you ever been in the park and see someone ride by? So they came from that stable. Yeah, but now that stable's closed, so I don't know where they're coming from now. It's really interesting.
00:05:06
Speaker 2: The horse image at the end, to me, was such a beautiful thing that expressed to me what was so inspiring about the show was like this horse that can't be tamed, like maybe she's just a horse that needs to run free.
00:05:16
Speaker 1: And it was very cool seeing that in a.
00:05:18
Speaker 2: TV series, because there weren't that many show I could even think of a show that expressed like, you don't have to get married, you don't have.
00:05:25
Speaker 1: To have kids.
00:05:26
Speaker 2: You can just feel good about yourself, wear a fabulous dress, have great friends, and just enjoy your life regardless.
00:05:33
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I think for me as well. You know, when I read it, you know, nineteen ninety eight, I thought this is like nothing else, and I have to be on this thing and I want to live like this.
00:05:43
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:05:43
Speaker 1: I mean I didn't have the confidence that the characters had, and I didn't have like that much dating. I wasn't like bold.
00:05:50
Speaker 2: I mean, you had a lot of confidence to act and become a famous actress. Was acting okay, So you're saying you were more shy and like and.
00:05:59
Speaker 1: More like going home home. I was already sober at this point in life, so I wasn't. Oh my god, that's so funny.
00:06:04
Speaker 2: So you were doing that show sober where you guys drank cocktails.
00:06:07
Speaker 1: Exactly, I know. And it did come to me in a way. So I was telling you about the one picture. We were talking about whether we I don't know how we got into this, but whether we have pictures of ourselves up in our house because some interesses do, which I always find super fascinating, right, because we are kind of you know, there's a lot of images.
00:06:23
Speaker 2: That get to the celebrating whatever. But yeah, I've always kind of slightly hidden it. But I also think it's cool people that celebrate it too, because I do think.
00:06:31
Speaker 1: It's like an accomplishment, like where it's accomplishment very much. It's a hard, hard job, you know, if you do make it at all and have images taken of yourself, like put them up. But I never really feel that way, except for I was telling Heather. In my closet, I have a framed picture of the cover of Time magazine that has all four of us on it and it says who needs a husband?
00:06:52
Speaker 2: Question is so because I can't think of another series And maybe you've thought about it this more than me, But that celebrated single women just having a great time before sex and the city like they're like it was like, oh, they're sad there they can't find any guys po them.
00:07:07
Speaker 1: Like this was like, yeah, we're single and we're fabulous, right, I mean Richards, but I mean it's you have to really like look through decades.
00:07:16
Speaker 2: You're talking about Mary Tyler Moore exactly, her character Mary Richards and I feel like she's throwing her hat and she kind of fun, fabulous and you know, in her only other.
00:07:29
Speaker 1: And then there's the Golden Girls, yes, of course, which is a complicated thing to compare us to. I find people do because they dated. I guess I never really watched it. I think that's also why I'm coming.
00:07:41
Speaker 2: I know I never watch I watched every episode of Sex and the City, Thank you, multiple times. It's a very you know, it's funny because I didn't at first watch it when it first came out, but I was working in Prague. I was doing a movie and I was missing home, and I binge watched like every episode and I was I fell in love and I'm friends with Molly Shannon. I think she was one episode and she did divorce with Sarah. Yeah, that's right, they're friends and stuff. But I remember that, like, because that was before I feel like, you know, it was harder to like watch things on demand, like you had to be home to watch it or yeah, like you know you can miss it on demand. I can't remember if like you could record it on your VCR, but I remember the TV okay, But I remember running home. I was having dinner with Molly and we were like running home to catch the next episode.
00:08:25
Speaker 1: We're like, we can't miss it, you know, so sweet, and I wish the world was simple like that now now there's so much content, there's so much there's more content for women.
00:08:34
Speaker 2: I feel like, sure we were kind of just stuck watching like three channels, four channels.
00:08:39
Speaker 1: Yes, no, you're absolutely right. I mean there are a lot of other shows now with women as leads and with groups of women, though, like you have to look hard to find one that is about women celebrating being single. You don't what I'm saying.
00:08:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, my friend and I are actually working on something like that right now, working on a.
00:08:57
Speaker 1: Show like that.
00:08:58
Speaker 2: But but yeah, I feel now a lot of shows are very dark. It sort of feels like, oh, you can't take it seriously unless there's a murder or unless somebody is like.
00:09:05
Speaker 1: Super duper dark and screwed up.
00:09:07
Speaker 2: But there's not just like, you know, just like having fun and like women talking about stuff that you never saw women talking about on a TV show, like farting or like different kind of sexual craziness.
00:09:18
Speaker 1: Right right now, I know, I know, I mean there was Girls After Us, that's true, but it was after it was after definitely, and then there was Easter Ray's show, which was great.
00:09:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that was great, right, but I mean not that many, right, No, and.
00:09:31
Speaker 1: All of those are HBO, and I feel like there was some kind of intention on their part to continue having a version of that show, which I'm thankful for, right, because we need more versions of this show. So, and let's just talk briefly before we talk about the episode, which there's so much talk about. Tell us when you came on the show. Yes, so I'm in an episode.
00:09:51
Speaker 2: You know what's funny is that a lot of people talk to me about this because you know, I did a cameo.
00:09:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like it still comes up that people will be.
00:09:58
Speaker 2: Like, oh my god, I'm watching it, or you were on Sex and the City and so yeah, I'm friends with Nadia de Johnnie. She was the face in that episode that the one who was oh you dated Aid and then she makes the face. So, and she was really good friends with a lot of writers on the show. She was friends with Michael Patrick King lose to Chillo. I think she actually helped Lose to Chillo get that job. Oh wow, and all the fabulous people and so yeah, so I did a cameo and Willie Garson was actually a friend of mine. I used to live next door to him. I know, I'm very sad he's not around anymore, but but no, I was.
00:10:30
Speaker 1: It was fun being on the show.
00:10:31
Speaker 2: And one of my really fun memories of being on the show was, you know, I think Sara Jessica's very cool.
00:10:37
Speaker 1: And then I got to meet.
00:10:37
Speaker 2: Her and she was so kind and I was asking her how do you wear the high heels all the time? I find them so uncomfortable, Like how do you do it? And she was being so sweet, and then she sent me a gift of like there was like a pedicure foot massage place in the village, and she sent me a gift certificate to go get a foot massage. And I'm like, that was like incredibly generous.
00:10:55
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, she's a sweetheart. Yes, it was really sweet. That's good. So when you come on, tell me what you do because I can't remember.
00:11:03
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, basically it's the whole episode is about, you know, and I have to rewatch. I haven't recently seen it, but basically she's in the bathroom and my friend Nadia, she plays a booker for Saturday Night Live. Oh yea, yeah yeah, And so they say something about Aid in it and she goes, oh, you're a Carrie and then she makes a face like like ooh, you really screwed him over basically, And then then Carrie gets paranoid like, oh my god, is everyone think am I a jerk?
00:11:28
Speaker 1: Was I a jerk? Blah blah blah blah.
00:11:30
Speaker 2: And then at the very end she meets Naddy in the park with me and it's like, oh, she's with Heather Graham. She's this booker for Saturday Night Live. And she goes, oh, this is carry and I go and I do the face and it's all about her just being paranoid like our people gotta being about.
00:11:45
Speaker 1: Her being bad. Oh I can't wait to get there. Yeah yeah, yeah, when you get here? How interesting? I mean, as much as I really, I really previous to doing this podcast, thought that I was very knowledgeable about our show and all the plots and everything. So not. So yeah, yeah, you're in it. You can't focus on everything. You're exhausted.
00:12:04
Speaker 2: And when you go back and rewatch, you see how smart the writers were, like even all the horse imagery they placed through this episode, Like with your character and at the final horse imagery at the end, which is so memorable.
00:12:14
Speaker 1: It was really cool. I agree. So you know, Michael Patrick's genius, right, I mean, all the other.
00:12:19
Speaker 2: Writers, I mean they managed to do like have a lot of humor, sexy, but also this poignancy and this kind of fresh point of view about women and dating and culturally like what we women can hope for.
00:12:32
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely, and also I mean, yeah, there's just so many details that tie in together. And of course I just remember my own like like, oh my god, I get to ride a horse. Oh my god, I've got to go, you know, practice again because I've written before for parts. You know, they always have a lot of stress. The horse wrangler doesn't trust actors, I get it right, and you have to go out and prove yourself with the horse wrangler or whatever. And that beautiful bridge that they chose fartiful. I love the park so much, so it was like so magical to get to do that. And I think there was another horse riding scene that they cut, which it's fine, it was, I think. I mean, when I look at the episodes, this is also one of those episodes where we're really getting it together writing wise, where because.
00:13:17
Speaker 2: It changed so much from the beginning of the first season to the end of the second. It went from being like everyone's talking to the camera and.
00:13:23
Speaker 1: There's other people, random people on the street, supposedly with their actors, and then now we're like the voice over says things like, you know, meanwhile uptown to Samantha. You know. It's very economical in.
00:13:38
Speaker 2: Terms of it's more focused on the main characters, which I think was better than having a bunch of just like people on the street going like, well, sex in New York City, blah blah blah blah.
00:13:45
Speaker 1: Right. I mean the joy of that though, is also that HBO allowed us to do that.
00:14:01
Speaker 2: For me, the other best thing about the show is you'd have all these moments where people are going through the ups and downs with their romantic lives. And I loved all the story with you in com MacLaughlin and then you're you know, ending up with Evan and stuff. It was so great. But but just that you go through all these ups and downs and then you'd think, oh, she's going to get back together with a guy like in a romantic comedy. But then they would all just hang out together and have a great time. Yeah, which one of my other favorite ones is the Kaka Doodle Do, where you guys are at the very end. It ends with you guys and the drag queens on the roof and they's just like they had a very lovely life. You know, you guys, We're all dancing around the roof, so that it was kind of just about like the friends enjoying their friendships and just happy, you know, without being like, oh, the movie needs to end with like a wedding and like a woman with a pregnant belly.
00:14:42
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and I do think that there was this stress which I totally understand from the fans when we did end the first series that we were all paired off and people felt like that was a betrayal, and I fully got that, But I also feel like for the writers, you know, at that point, they've been kind of living this and they felt like Carrie wanted right to be chosen.
00:15:05
Speaker 2: She did say, and the most important relationship is the one you have with yourself.
00:15:09
Speaker 1: She did.
00:15:09
Speaker 2: So she ended up that even though everyone was.
00:15:11
Speaker 1: You know, right, and I know Michael Patrick feels very strongly that that is the through line to all of our you know, the first show, the films, the second show. That's the through line to all of it. But for me, the other thing about that is, well, you can't really necessarily film someone just being happy with themselves at home as a film, you know what I'm saying, right, So it manifests itself in many ways, right, Like you want to see them in life, and you want to see that get challenge and you want to see that go through things and how real is it?
00:15:42
Speaker 2: Is?
00:15:43
Speaker 1: There yet another all.
00:15:44
Speaker 2: The plots with you on Commaclachland where you got him like masturbating and then you took your writing.
00:15:48
Speaker 1: Pictures and put it over the jugs. I honestly some of that is blacked out. I'm going to have to watch it. But it was so stressful because like, you're really in it. You're really really in it in so many ways. You know what i mean saying you're not right.
00:16:00
Speaker 2: I'm sure from your point of view, your character, it's really stressful and hard, but from an outsider it's kind of funny. But you know what is my favorite moment of you in the whole series, what I'm going right now is that when you're like, You're like, where is mister Wright.
00:16:14
Speaker 1: I've been trying to find.
00:16:15
Speaker 2: It for so long and they're like, my hair hurts, or again, like what.
00:16:18
Speaker 1: Was it I've been dating since I was fifteen? Where is he my hair hurts? Or maybe in different order, you know what? It was really great about that. That was when I remember we haven't gotten to that yet. I think it's season three, and I remember I was so excited because I was getting more storylines, right, we really into it. And that was after the Staten Island, which I think is the first episode of season three, The Fireman, Yeah, and I'm we're all hungover because I dance on the you know, right, I'm all crazy or maybe in the bark in the bar and I'm like, I'm pretty, I'm a catch. Remember that whole thing? I think? Is that right? Isn't that Easton? Yeah? So they I'm hungover. So I'm hungover and they said, you know, you're not going to wear any makeup, and I was like, yeah, it's so exciting. And I remember getting there and thinking like I looked really horrible, and I remember thank you saying like you look great. You should never get any air makeup, and I was, oh my god, how manzy. And then the fun part of that was that. Right after that is when we started getting nominated for awards, right and when they would nominate me, they would show that clip and I would get to hear the whole audience. Last that's fun.
00:17:30
Speaker 2: I think it's relatable as a woman you're like, because I think a lot of times were fed this idea like, oh, you're going to meet this like night and shining armor, like in a fairy tale, and you're going to have your beat feel so happy and the rest of your likes going to be happy. And you're like, no, no, no, for sure. I mean maybe there's some people that have found like, but nobody has that complete and nobody is.
00:17:48
Speaker 1: Not going to even if you meet the person, it's just going to be happy.
00:17:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, such a but it had disillusionment where I think when you're you grow up thinking well, if I do this, I try to look really good and I do this and I date right, like, I'll find this person and then I'll be so happy and it'll be all done.
00:18:06
Speaker 1: You know, it's not all done. That was partly why we wanted to do and just like that because even though Charlotte is happily married to Harry and that hasn't changed it doesn't mean that life is over, right, Like what if she wants to go back to work. What if there's stuff going on with their kids? You know, Carrie, you know, what if someone that you found and you went through all this hell to be with and then they might die. That happened to my friends.
00:18:28
Speaker 2: You know, they were so happy and they were kind of like the iconic couple where we're like, look, these people are happy, they have it. And he died also, so I know, and I mean, and.
00:18:36
Speaker 1: Then everyone was mad at us. But on the same hand, if you live long enough, this is what starts to happen. This is how life is. You cannot predict it. There's no like stress free route really for anyone that I know of, right, you just have to find out what you actually really want, which I think is a very big question. I know, I agree for yes, and I hope that that is what I'm I mean, we're still finding ourselves through this, right, And I think so interesting to look at Carrie and beg and this episode where is when we learn that he's engaged to Natasha and her different struggles with it, and then at the end, you know, and I mean, we're going to get there in the rewatch, but the theme of what we're talking about when she said she refers to you know, your girl is lovely hubble, right, which is the callback to the way we were and Robert Redford Barbara Streisan and he says, I don't get it, and she says, and you never did, right, It is so good.
00:19:36
Speaker 2: It's such a good line, right, and you never got her?
00:19:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, he doesn't deserve her, Yeah, you know.
00:19:44
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:19:45
Speaker 1: I mean obviously we go through many things later and it works out differently, but like in that moment, and he's also wearing this brown suit and I'm like, oh, I mean I also think and not that she hasn't been lauded and awarded, but like Sarah, Jessica is so good. Yeah, she's great. I mean the depth, Like in that scene with him at the end, you know, when she does say and you never did, she delivers it so lightly. Well, it's so relatable.
00:20:12
Speaker 2: I mean, who hasn't sat around with her girlfriends talking about a breakup and just feeling confused and.
00:20:17
Speaker 1: Trying to like process it.
00:20:19
Speaker 2: And then just I think the moment at the end was her just deciding to feel good about herself even though that relationship didn't work out and to feel how amazing she is and she doesn't need that guy to affirm her that she can just absolutely affirm herself basically that he didn't even.
00:20:33
Speaker 1: Get her right, you know, like after two years of her stressing about him and trying so hard and doing this and doing that and trying to get him to talk and you know, following him around and you different things, right, and then for her to finally go like, oh, yeah, you're with that beautiful but kind of simple girl, and you're wearing a brown suit, you know, and I'm amazing, you know, like she is. She doesn't have to say it, it's just how it is, right. And then the comparison to the Barbari States and Rebert Redford relationship in the way we were that we basically say, which I had also kind of forgotten. That whole scene is super interesting with all four of us where we're kind of re enacting and Samantha.
00:21:15
Speaker 2: Has so she turns and looks at the car.
00:21:19
Speaker 1: I can't believe there's a scene to be but it's also kind of adorable because it's such an unusual position for her to be in, right, but not knowing everything about everything, you know what I mean. But I love when we're when we're retelling the story of it to Samantha and we say, you know, Barbaras is there with her curly hair, and she's really complicated, and then he ends up with the other lady who has straight hairs, really simble, which is obviously Charlotte.
00:21:44
Speaker 2: That's fine, but yeah, that's just like we know as opposed to you know, Bridgin moynihan, who is a lovely person. I know her and I with her. You know, they didn't develop that character where you really cared about her or knew her that.
00:21:57
Speaker 1: No, absolutely, and that's unfortunate so many ways. And she and I talked about that because I do feel like it was kind of messed up what Carrie did.
00:22:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, they both kind of were so nice to her.
00:22:09
Speaker 1: No, no, and she didn't deserve that, you know. But that's partly why we wanted to have her on just like that too, to kind of have a like give her some credit, you know, that character, of course, And I do love Bridget and she played she played that character so well. And the thing she told me, which was funny, and then we're gonna rewatch the thing that she told me. That was funny was she didn't have any idea what it was, or they'd give her like two pages or that she'd come back like they just call her and say like, are you available and she say yes. There was no contract.
00:22:38
Speaker 2: Wow, So they didn't let her read the whole script. That is horrible as an actor, I know.
00:22:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, and look at how she was I know, right, like I think she just brought she's.
00:22:47
Speaker 2: Kind of I mean, she's so beautiful and she has a real elegance. So if you were dating a guy and then he started dating her, and especially if you know she's younger or whatever as in the story, yeah, that would be so threatening.
00:22:59
Speaker 1: And you know, and also she's just so different. She's so cool perfect, there's like a perfect coolness about her.
00:23:07
Speaker 2: You know, she's so perfectly into the waspy world of.
00:23:10
Speaker 1: Yes, I mean you can see why, you know what I mean, which is I mean it was perfect casting. So she's just so good. Yeah, and she brought that, which is amazing. All right, let's do this technical rewatch part. That was really funny cool Okay, the X and the City. Okay, this is fun because a lot everyone has an amazing storyline, which is hard to do, really hard with four you know, leads, right, So we begin I didn't remember any of this. Carrie and Miranda are out there. They're at a bodega. They're debating dish you by the five dollars flowers the last three days or the ten dollar flowers that last five days. It's all very funny and relatable and real. And then all of a sudden, Miranda looks down the street and see Steve coming with the basketball. It is so adorable and like a little child, she turns and she runs away, which is so cute. And that's when you kind of really realize. And again I'm rewatching this whole relationship and thinking how incredible it is so beautifully written to Steve.
00:24:13
Speaker 2: Miranda and so lovable, and it's cool how Miranda is like she's kind of this like strong career woman. But then she has this other side, which is like, you know, it's adorable.
00:24:22
Speaker 1: Definitely, And I think you really see that clearly here because they've been broken up, right, so she's seeing him and her response is to literally run with Carrie, which is so funny and not Miranda, Like that's kind of how you know that this is not her regular relationship. This is something more, and she's just struggling within, like what does that mean for me? You know, because she was so rooting for Steve.
00:24:44
Speaker 2: When I was watching the show, Steve, you know, I.
00:24:47
Speaker 1: Was not rooting for Steve. You Originally, I don't know what I thought. I just thought, like, I just thought it was odd. But when I look back on it, I'm blown over Number one by how incredible he is. And number two is just beautiful writing. They're different, but they're complementary, and that's what she needs. She needs some grounding and some optimism so sweet, so sweet, it just cuts.
00:25:16
Speaker 2: Through her like kind of you know, her tough atitude, her.
00:25:21
Speaker 1: Stick, you know what I'm saying. And I think, like, you know, I do feel sad when I look back because I know what's coming, which people definitely had a lot of feelings about. I know it is sad. It is sad, but I mean, sometimes things don't work out all right. Back to the episode back. This is the funny thing too, about looking back, because we have had this joy of getting to create these characters for so incredibly long, and it's crazy to think that this aired in nineteen ninety nine. That is wild.
00:26:03
Speaker 2: I mean, that's so cool that it culturally is still people are still watching it.
00:26:07
Speaker 1: It's so true. I have a question. Yeah, so I always had a house here in LA and I would go to work in New York, and then I would come back here to like rest, right and then in between seasons. Definitely. And one time I think I was at a coffee Bean and Tea Leaf, possibly on Sunset Boulevard, and I think you were there, and I think you were there with Heath Ledger.
00:26:28
Speaker 2: Yes, I dated him, and in fact, I think we might have watched the show together, and I think he actually really liked it. I remember us watching it and him being like, I can relate to this, because I was like, I don't know, because sometimes you try to get guys to watch it, and some guys loved it, but other guys would be.
00:26:40
Speaker 1: Like, I don't know.
00:26:41
Speaker 2: That's a girl show, of course, but no, I remember watching the show with him.
00:26:45
Speaker 1: We were standing there in line and I'm by myself, and you know that thing like when you're newly famous and you're like, oh my god, they're famous. You're looking at them, but you I think I know about you. I like forget that I'm fan, Like, oh, my god, I'm talking to shoot. At the time, you too, were just like this ray of light in this coffee bean. I do remember that. And you were like kind of like giggling and touching each other, and I was just like like just like like hold it together, like I was just you. I wish you would have talked to I know, I wish I would have too. It's one of those times where you're like, darn, I should not have been shy. But also I felt protective, like I didn't want to call attention to you because you seemed very free, do you know me nice? I was very in love with him. Yeah, I know. He's kind of amazing. Yeah, I mean, and the two of you looked so similar and beautiful. What I'm saying. Yeah, I was just like, wow, I'm like bowled over by these people and I have to just stand here.
00:27:49
Speaker 2: And I got a lot of cool pictures of when I dated him, and I thought at one point like maybe I should do like a photo album, but I think people would look I'm not really sure because I don't really Then they were like, you have to get the family permission. But I have some really cool pictures of when we dated.
00:28:03
Speaker 1: I mean, of course you would want to be respectful, but at the same time, like what an incredible light and gift he was and such a sad sad you know, too short. His life was cut too short by pure accident, which was like horrible and tragic. But do you remember that? And I had forgotten. I was going to ask you before we started if it was okay, But no.
00:28:25
Speaker 2: No, I feel proud that I dated him. Yeah, yeah, sure, you.
00:28:28
Speaker 1: Had a special so fun.
00:28:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm glad you guys look so I wish he was still alive.
00:28:33
Speaker 1: That would be nice, you know, Yeah, I know it's terrible.
00:28:37
Speaker 2: It's so talented, it is some of these really bright lights kind of you know, don't get to live so long. You know, if you look at like I do, iconic, you know, Jimi Hendrix, Jannis Joplin, you know, different amazing.
00:28:50
Speaker 1: Oh, there's so many artists. Yeah, that's why when you think about Robert Redford, it's really amazing.
00:28:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, he had a long I mean, if you die when you're like ninety, that's a good life.
00:28:58
Speaker 1: And he were to pay.
00:29:00
Speaker 2: You didn't have cancer, you didn't like suffer for Alzheimer's or something like that.
00:29:05
Speaker 1: It's so incredible. It's so incredible and he obviously deserves that, and I hope he's you know, yeah with the trees, totally right.
00:29:12
Speaker 2: I didn't need him once at Sunday, did he. He had a little thing around the me too time and he had me come and talk about it, and I just remember he was really respectful and he has that amazing energy where it just feels like he can quietly be there, be this presence and you can really just feel this amazing energy. Amazing and of course out of Africa too, that's another amazing Robert Redford, did you want to have the funniest thing? I watched it recently because I went to Africa for the first time, which, oh, by the way, you did that show in Africa.
00:29:39
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, times. I was jealous.
00:29:41
Speaker 2: I'm one of the producers I work with. I'm like, what an incredible job. You got to go on a safari in Africa.
00:29:46
Speaker 1: But you worked with the producer there who was on my movie? Yeah lackey, No, no, not the producer there. He lives here.
00:29:53
Speaker 2: What's the name again, it's fine whatever, yeah.
00:29:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yea, yeah, he's yeah, he is.
00:29:59
Speaker 2: But but but no, so I rewatched out of Africa. And then I was going back and reading about it and uh, and I was reading there were these.
00:30:06
Speaker 1: Reviews when it came out where they were trashing the movie Can You Be?
00:30:09
Speaker 2: And they were trashing his performance, and I was thinking, you, that's why you can't take any reviews seriously, because it's like, you know.
00:30:16
Speaker 1: Oh, yes, that was an amazing performance.
00:30:19
Speaker 2: He's like anconic chacter in that movie, right, and her as well, And you know they didn't enough to get that part.
00:30:26
Speaker 1: I had to go buy a push up bra like turn herself up for Sydney Pollock. What on earth our business?
00:30:32
Speaker 2: So Sydney Pollack has done some great movies incredibly.
00:30:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just saying no, but it is.
00:30:40
Speaker 2: Hard to learn about do that, you know.
00:30:42
Speaker 1: And that then people criticize Redford.
00:30:44
Speaker 2: Oh and they were talking about how the movie wasn't good and criticizing that he didn't do it, and I'm like, what are they talking about?
00:30:51
Speaker 1: People are insane? You know, That's actually why I ended up having my obsession. I mean, it was the leaping off point of me wanting to go and you know, then wow, you know, watching.
00:31:03
Speaker 2: That guy, They're like, I got to go to Africa.
00:31:06
Speaker 1: Definitely, and it is. It is. We're going to talk about that later. Okay, back to the episode. All right, we're on the street, we see Steve. He's adorable in his basketball outfit, and Miranda runs off, which is kind of funny. So then they go to we all have work together. We're having a Basically, we're in the classic coffee shop scene. Now we have it established. For a while, we were in different restaurants. Now we have our set, we're in the scene. Those days would be very long days, as you can imagine, so you guys always ate at the same restaurant we did. It was interesting, okay, okay. Previous to us building our coffee shop set, you were in like different a sort of place. But then we got our set and we could just be there for eighteen hours and film every angle with beautiful lighting. So that was great. The big thing that I love to think about from this, and I think it's still a really big issue, is can people be friends with exes? And in general, I think there's also a subtext of can you have guy friends as a woman, you know, a straight woman. I guess I should say I don't know if that matters or or not, but you know, and basically Samantha is like women are for friendships and men are for fucking just very Samantha, Yes, very Samantha. I know, But I mean I personally love my male friends, right. I have.
00:32:26
Speaker 2: One of my best friends is a guy. He gives me hope and like the whole gender, He's one of the nicest, best people I've ever known. He is like a brother. I love his wife, I love their daughter. So I think for sure they can be friends.
00:32:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think it's important. Yeah, I would go in terms of being friends with your ax.
00:32:41
Speaker 2: I think it's possible, but maybe that's slightly more complicated. But being friends with the guy likes right, I mean, I think, what.
00:32:46
Speaker 1: Do you think X? I think you have to be careful that you're being fully honest with yourself about what you're doing, right, Like, are you really just hoping that you're going to get back together? For me, it would be am I still codependently taking care of this person interest in which I can totally relate to. Seeing then I have to cut that. I don't want to. I never want to leave anywhere.
00:33:10
Speaker 2: What they talk about an episode like why should you throw away you spent so much time with this person and then it's not working, You're like, and then you just throw them away and never talk to them again.
00:33:18
Speaker 1: I know, I agree, I agree, But that's also how I've gotten into some not great situations where like I'm still on the phone hearing about whatever, you know what I mean, and I don't really have energy for that. That sounds bad. Why am I? Why am I taking care of this person in motional you know what? An occasional happy birthday? You know, that's fine, So glad you're doing well. I always want to be civil. I mean, there's very few that I wouldn't want to be civil to gosh.
00:33:47
Speaker 2: So you're not exactly like Charlotte, no, no, no.
00:33:50
Speaker 1: But I definitely am.
00:33:54
Speaker 2: Are you a Charlotte that I am like?
00:33:58
Speaker 1: Half Charlotte? Half care right? Okay?
00:34:01
Speaker 2: Yeah?
00:34:02
Speaker 1: Yeah? Should we just ask you now too, because okay, yeah, well I kind of it is sort of.
00:34:06
Speaker 2: When I was younger, I think I did relate more to the other characters because I think I was rebelling against a traditional upbringing, you know. But I do think now that I have incorporated more more Charlotte into my personality.
00:34:18
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, but when you say other characters. Do you mean Samantha, Do you mean Miranda? I mean, I could relate to Carrie.
00:34:24
Speaker 2: I think if Carrie is kind of like a romantic has like you know, her love life is kind of going through all these ups and downs. I could relate to Miranda, who's like kind of a career woman, who's just like I want to have a career, I want to be independent, I want to try to achieve things. I want to be self sufficient and related to that, right, And I could relate to just I mean, Samantha just be I mean, I mean I was never that wild, but I definitely you know, it was a little wild.
00:34:49
Speaker 1: Sure, sure, sure. What's great about Samantha is that she just owns it.
00:34:55
Speaker 2: You know. No, I guess, but an alter ego part of me would have loved to be more wild.
00:34:59
Speaker 1: But do you remember your Lenny Kravitz American woman? Yeah, it was like so powerful and so in a Samantha vane, you know.
00:35:09
Speaker 2: No, I think when I grew up, I was a nerdy kid, awkward. I was not seen as as pretty, so I did feel like as an actor, I.
00:35:15
Speaker 1: Was pretending to be this like sexual when.
00:35:18
Speaker 2: In reality I was pretty much just like I had boyfriends and you know whatever. But then I felt like I played at this other side, which is like this sexual art alter ego. Do you know that song called alter ego? Yeah, that's amazing.
00:35:31
Speaker 1: No, I do feel like I acted out.
00:35:32
Speaker 2: Like an alternate side of myself.
00:35:35
Speaker 1: What about roller Girl? Right? So that's that.
00:35:38
Speaker 2: That's that right, that's incredible perform I.
00:35:42
Speaker 1: Mean I love that performances. Sometimes I just think about you bashing that guy. Oh my god, that was a fun scene. Start right. I want to do things like that, you know, like we need places to I just had. There were two gates we used.
00:36:00
Speaker 2: I donated one pair to the Academy Museum, and then this other pair was bought by my friend, this guy, this super successful director, Mike Flanagan. I'm working with him on this new Carry TV show. But he bought that the main pair.
00:36:12
Speaker 1: That I wore.
00:36:12
Speaker 2: He just bought them because he owns all this movie memorabilia. So he owns like the roller skates and like an outfit.
00:36:19
Speaker 1: It's really funny. He sat me a picture. He's like, is this what you were in the movie?
00:36:21
Speaker 2: And I'm like yeah, and he's like, okay, I'm buying it.
00:36:25
Speaker 1: Sometimes I wonder, you know what I mean, like sometimes because there's like six two two's that supposedly we're all in the beginning, and I know, yeah, everyone tells me. When they tell me that they have it, I'm like, okay, wow, because I think Michael Patrick has it. Hanger but okay, I know maybe there was more than one Maybee. Who knows. But I just had such a flashback of that, of that part and the joy of watching.
00:36:50
Speaker 2: That, you know, that was really fun.
00:36:53
Speaker 1: I mean, so yeah, okay, back to the show. I'm distracting. You just stopped its greater you're kidding. I mean, it's a joy. It's a joy to be having you here talking about it.
00:37:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fun, you No, honestly, it's really fun because I can't even tell you how much the show really did mean to me.
00:37:10
Speaker 1: So thanks. It's incredible to be part of something that means things to people.
00:37:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it is.
00:37:15
Speaker 1: It is the best part of our business for sure. It pretty much evens out all the hard anything.
00:37:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, it does, it does, It really does.
00:37:22
Speaker 1: And we're just so lucky. Okay, So here we are, we're at the table. We're discussing, you know. Uh, and Carrie says it kind of a deep thing, which is what you were just referring to. She says, if you love someone and you break up, where does the love go? And Samantha says something like to the other girlfriend. But I mean really it is a deep question, like if you've really spent time with that person and gotten to know that person kind of you know, like had a really deep exchange with that person, like then it's just over bam, like how why? You know? But this has also led me down some bad roads. So so this I relate to this.
00:37:58
Speaker 2: I really want to hear much.
00:38:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, part of the podcast, I'm just I'm so back to the Charlotte part, the part of me, and it is kind of what you refer to about Carrie being a romantic. She is a romantic too, right in her own way, Like it looks different for her than it looks for Charlotte. Right, Charlotte is much more of kind of what society tells you like marriage, family, kids, puffy wedding dress, you know, blah blah blah. I never had that, but I do have the romantic side where like it's hard for me to let go. You know, I believe in love, you know, I'm you know, might beleeve too much, you know, when all the signs would be telling me like get out.
00:38:36
Speaker 2: Like I can go into a fantasy in my head and like go, well, you know, not always see reality.
00:38:41
Speaker 1: One hundred percent as can I, as can I, And I mean I think that's important to be able to do that, certainly for our jobs, but I think also for life, right, because you can't like kind of imagine the possibilities, then it's just hard. Life is hard. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, So I kind of have one it in both both camps. But sometimes when I'm watching back and I look at everyone's point of view, and then those scenes where we do all have four very distinct points of view, I can kind of go with everybody, you know what I mean, Like I'm like, oh, yeah, she's right, it's got a good point. Yeah. And then I'm like, oh no, she's right too. And then I'm like, oh, yeah, we're all right, which is kind of good. That's good writing, right, So then oh, we have such a great, great shot at Sara Jessica. I love to watch the shots of Sara Jessica evolve over time of her writing and her wearing a sort of different underwear she's so good with her body and this one is hot. But it's just a beautiful if you look at the beginning of our show and then like where it goes visually, Yeah, it's just incredible. Yeah. And again that was HBO allowing us and our dps, and I remember different directors coming in and kind of like upping the game, you.
00:39:47
Speaker 2: Know, and wardrobe of course totally.
00:39:50
Speaker 1: But also we had to get more money, you know, like when Molly came on, she reminded me that we had ten thousand dollars for the whole first season. What how did you guys do it?
00:40:00
Speaker 2: Don't know, don't know, got a bunch of free stuff?
00:40:03
Speaker 1: We didn't because no one knew who we were and what we were doing. The Fendy bag was the first one, right, and that was Sara Jessica kind of you know, just using her relationships and getting one and then it you know, went from there. And she would she would so sweetly make so much effort to show it, Like I remember doing scenes where she put it on her plate, we like, are you sure she's like just till the food comes.
00:40:28
Speaker 2: I remember like the episode that I did that she was and she was pregnant and so she was trying to hide her pregnant belly with a purse and that was hard.
00:40:34
Speaker 1: Because her stomach. It so didn't work because I think she brought her her Kelly or Burke or whatever, and she she had it and it worked. But then the sun would hit and her shadow on the street would be pregnant. I know that would of course, of course, good for her and good for them for trying. And then at a certain point they were like, everybody go home, so free obviously, you know. Yeah, and also Cynthia was pregnant at that point. Yeah, a little bit later, but the same year, so they were like, just go home, we'll see you in a year. And it all worked out. At the time, it seemed very stressful, but it all worked out. Okay. Heather Graham is just too much fun. So she's going to continue breaking down Exit the City with us. So please come back and hear part two with Heather Graham of Are You a Charlotte