Dec. 8, 2025
I'm Trey.... I'm Charlotte... with Drama Queen Sophia Bush (S3 E7 "Drama Queens)
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RSS Feed One Tree Hill star Sophia Bush joins Kristin this week and this "Drama Queen" has an unique perspective talking about Drama Queens. Sophia, who was a Sex and the City fan when it aired, has a very different perspective when watching it now.
Kristin analyzes Charlotte's "marriage book" and who she should be surrounding herself with to find a husband and, ultimately, the chance encounter when she meets Trey! Sophia defends Carrie in a situation where others have criticized her.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
00:00:01
Speaker 1: Hi.
00:00:02
Speaker 2: I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are you a Charlotte. I can talk to you about this because you have a podcast. You actually have two that you just finished. We'll get to in a second. Sophia Bushes here, you guys, this is how we roll. Okay's on it. I saw this post one time, or like a whole thing from this lady on Instagram who I don't know, talking about how on Amy Polish podcast, everyone's like, what do you mean you're rolling? And she thought that was fake or something or weird and why didn't they know if they'd been in the green room. And I'm like, oh, honey, we don't have green rooms, right, And we're used to film where there's like rolling, and there's you know, you know, like for us, like we're just sitting in a chair and we're chatting and we're catching up, we're talking about our kids and whatever, and then our very smart producers are just rolling because they're so so smart that it's the way podcasts are and we love it.
00:01:02
Speaker 1: I love it, right, because it's so easy. You also catch a little bit of magic that way, I find.
00:01:07
Speaker 2: I agree, Yeah, I agree, that's why they're so smart to just do it and not wait for anybody to start.
00:01:13
Speaker 1: I like Easton just rubbing his phone together, like.
00:01:16
Speaker 2: He totally totally, so you I love. I've wanted to talk just briefly about Drama Queens. So you did this podcast Drama Queens about One Tree Hill, the show that you were on that was massive, massive, massive. I've never seen it, but when I was preparing to do Are You Charlotte, they said to listen to Drama Queens. So I listened Drama Queens, of course, not understanding what you guys were talking about, but really enjoying that there were three of you and you had such great camaraderie and you got to kind of rehash memories as well as talking about the plot, like and how smart were you to do this when you started it?
00:01:51
Speaker 1: I mean thank you, honestly, I think because I had started my my solo show, work in progress and loved it so much, when honestly, it was a pandemic project for US Drama Art, so you know, everything shut down. I was preparing to shoot a show in Canada. We all got sent home. I remember thinking, oh, yeah, we'll go back to work in two weeks. I mean, crazy and then we were in lockdown and I was facetiming with my girlfriends from the show, and one night, you know, we were all kind of like, well, it's eight o'clock on the East Coast, five o'clock out here. You know, we cracked bottles of wine together and we're like everybody's making dinner and we're talking, and I was like, wait a second, Like this is a show, this is something I think people would love. And when I pitched the idea first to Hillary and then she and I called Joy, we were kind of not sure what it would be. There weren't really rewatch shows yet. I think maybe Office Ladies was out and that might have been the only one at that point, and we didn't really know what it was going to be. But the show wound up being such a kind of reclamation for us. And you know, not only were we so god, we were so young on that show and so isolated and so ill equipped. I think, you know, aren't we all yeah, with their nap, I don't think we were capable of having certain conversations or we're even figuring out, you know, the line between personal and professional, which is so hard muddy when you're on location, especially of course.
00:03:33
Speaker 2: And you guys were North Carolina. Yeah, I'm from South Carolina. I've filmed in Wilmington.
00:03:38
Speaker 1: Wellington's a different world.
00:03:39
Speaker 2: It is lovely and different.
00:03:41
Speaker 1: But yeah, very different, and I think for us especially complicated because we were in this sort of no man's land. We were just older than all the college kids at UNCW wow, but so much younger than all the like golf dads who were really young. So it was like a weird. It was just a weird. We were very isolated and the show I think had great high highs and some low lows, and we were just able to process together in a way.
00:04:11
Speaker 2: That was which is so amazing and so beloved by fans, Like what a gift to the fans.
00:04:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, the fans really their love of the show. And I imagine you feel this with Sex and the City because it also is an evergreen show. It was really their love of the show that sort of forced us back, you know, it brought us home. We kept being invited back to Wilmington, we kept being asked about it, and I think we finally hit a point where we thought we want to experience it like they did, Like, yeah, what are all these people so into.
00:04:50
Speaker 2: That's fun and I got to have it totally. I think that's great and I think for me, you know, when I do have obviously different people from the show on, it's really fun of course to have them in really easy and different and hard.
00:05:02
Speaker 1: Like I was thinking about, I had.
00:05:04
Speaker 2: Seen Michael Patrick since we rapped and just like that and decided not to go on. And I said, you know, I'm still trying to process the end of that chapter. And he said, wait, you're trying to process in real time on the podcast. I said yes, because I'm you have to talk about it like yeah, in it and even though I'm talking about sex and the city specifically, to me, it's all one thing.
00:05:28
Speaker 1: Well, it's it's a universe.
00:05:30
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:05:30
Speaker 1: And I think you know the interesting thing because we get asked about this a lot, even in terms of one Trehill, like what would they be doing now? Would you ever go back?
00:05:39
Speaker 2: You know, would love to ask us that.
00:05:40
Speaker 1: We've investigated those things. And when you play someone for as long as I played Brooke Davis or you played Charlotte Yorke like they are a real person to you. You know, Brooke feels like a cousin of mine or.
00:05:54
Speaker 2: A sister almost well put, yeah.
00:05:56
Speaker 1: And I do have all sorts of thoughts about her life and her growth and her evolution of course, and it as a fan of your show, you know, I always say to people, They're like, do you have a one Tree Hill? I'm my cas Sex in the City. It was my one tree hill, like it's my show, so nice, thank you. And as a viewer, I have loved revisiting these people with all of you.
00:06:18
Speaker 2: Oh good. But it's like, I guess not everyone feels that way.
00:06:22
Speaker 1: Well people listen, people these days just want to hate everything so they don't have to admit how much they, like I don't know, hate their own lives.
00:06:30
Speaker 2: So here we are right, right, and that.
00:06:33
Speaker 1: Is just such access pool.
00:06:34
Speaker 2: But I want to ask you another question though about this, because I do there's definitely like different baskets, right, Like I have a basket of Like, yes, our world is a mess, right, and so people are it's much safer to obsess about. For instance, I had Bridget Monahan who Moynahan who plays Natasha on and we're both wearing our wireroom glasses and this one lady went on there and commented like I don't care for the wireroom glasses, and I was like, wow, Okay, this is that's what you want to comment on. Like we talked about so many interesting things, But do you think it's much easier to do that than to think about our world and the crazy, horrible things happening in our world? Right?
00:07:10
Speaker 1: Totally?
00:07:10
Speaker 2: It's really hard to tackle that. So I get it. I get that, like we're putting things out there and people are going to have their feelings and they might nitpick, and I get that. So that's one basket. But then I think a different basket, And this is what I'm super curious about your feelings on watching us. But also if you think about revisiting One Tree Hill to see the character's age, I think really triggers people. Yeah, like they don't really want sometimes to see us age. I guess it depends on the age of the fan, right, Yeah, so some fans they Because then also the way HBO is HBO Max whatever I'm supposed to call it, it feeds right from and just like that into the old Sex and the City. So it's like our younger selves are smacked up against our you know, current selves, right Yeah, And that's upsetting for some people. I guess younger people maybe, do you know what I mean, they don't necessarily want to confront that.
00:08:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you think of that? I know it is weird, you know, I'm sure there's been great discourse about it. I'm not chronically online enough.
00:08:11
Speaker 2: Oh, I don't think there's great discourse about it.
00:08:14
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I guess for me, I'm like, I'm sure some amazing person on TikTok has like gone through the social science studies of this or something. But I will say, as someone who is both a fan and in the ways we all do know we know each other. Yeah, as a woman, it's been like, so, I don't want to I don't want to be over dramatic or melodramatic, but I mean it it's painful to watch the way exceptional women will, just to your point, be nitpicked and dragged and discussed like things not people.
00:08:53
Speaker 2: Yes, And you know.
00:08:55
Speaker 1: I caught myself rolling my eyes when you you know, you said the thing about the woman who made the comment about the wireroom glass. Since on the one hand, I'm like, keep it to yourself, like, just shut the fuck up. And then on the other hand, I'm like, you know, I do understand that people are. Everyone's so stressed and so anxious and so worried, and things are really crazy. It's a crazy time to be on the earth. And so I get that the pressure valve gets released, I think often in the wrong direction. Yeah, but I think the larger discourse, how dare you age? If you do anything about aging? How dare you do something? Ye're so vain if you if you don't do enough? Why are you letting yourself go if they decide you've done too much? Oh yeah, don't you have any friends who said stop totally? If you like that?
00:09:44
Speaker 2: Were you thinking? Oh my god?
00:09:47
Speaker 1: And I I just am like, we're still here, Like nobody's talking. Nobody's talking about that with any of the dudes. Like are people picking Brad Pitt's face upon? I don't know.
00:10:00
Speaker 2: I think they are.
00:10:01
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, actually I do see men being pulled into the Yes, the world it's now a little bit going towards them, And sometimes I feel glad about it.
00:10:09
Speaker 2: Sometimes I also feel sad about it. You see what I'm saying, Like it is a mixed but I also feel I feel and that's a different We're in a different basket now. This is how I separate it in my mind when I'm thinking about it, and it helps me to dissect it, you know, to dissect like what is actually driving these conversations. And in terms of the aging situation, my feeling is that because I'm significantly older than you, right, so like we have been Oh yeah, yes, okay, definitely, I'm sixty years old, Sophia six, I am you hot us right?
00:10:44
Speaker 1: Thank you?
00:10:45
Speaker 2: I love it. I love it to get in good compliments. Thank you so much.
00:10:49
Speaker 1: I'll take it.
00:10:49
Speaker 2: I'll take it up.
00:10:50
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm like, well, I do feel thrilled to be alive in this moment where women are just not giving up.
00:11:01
Speaker 2: But it is this struggle. It is the struggle like you look at to me more, I mean, what a incredible situation. Like if you listen to her talk and she says, I'm creating my own rules. Yes, to me, create your own rules. We do not have to live by other people's rules. We don't. We don't, and I think we just need to say this to each other. That doesn't mean that I'm going to do everything that Demi is doing or whatever it is or not. I'm also not going to judge her. She is creating her own existence. She is living by her own rules, she is doing what she wants. More power to her. I love it so much and I think it's so powerful, Like whenever I see her talking about it, I'm like, oh God, it's just so refreshing, because that's what you need to remember, Like we can create our own existence. We can say to ourselves, you know what, I'm not going to let this cultural morass of insanity about aging get inside me than it already is. Right, it's already there. But I can live and find joy and what I find And I've got little kids and they keep me young and I'm running around with them and you know, I don't understand what I'm doing personal relationships, but.
00:12:12
Speaker 1: I kind of never have. You know what I'm saying, What would be different about that?
00:12:15
Speaker 2: Right?
00:12:16
Speaker 1: We have so much to talk about off this podcast. Totally, totally, totally I have a question about that. Yeah, because I think there's really something elemental about aging. And some of my buckets are what a privilege it is to age. We're so lucky to be alive. Yes, I'm also to this point, I'm thrilled to be alive at a time where women are rewriting the rules where you are the picture of sixty. We're not told that we have to look like the Golden Girls by the time we're forty five. And by the way, No Shade and one of my favorite shows of all time, of course, but women were put into a box of being quote elderly right by the time they were in their mid forties. I don't feel elderly. I still feel like I'm twenty seven.
00:13:04
Speaker 2: And you look like you're twenty seven.
00:13:06
Speaker 1: Well, thank you. I'm smarter than I was at twenty seven, for sure. But you know, I think about that privilege. I think about the way we're critiqued. I think about the way we are often and sort of historically categorically discarded. And then I also think about the sort of subconscious aspect of aging and especially over the generation that we kind of came of age, if you will, from your show really setting the tone into the Dawson's Creek into my show, like the conversations are changing. What millennial or I guess what gen Z women are going through now is so like leaps and bounds above sort of permission, opportunity, all the things we really had. We were kind of breaking the rules now they were rewriting.
00:14:00
Speaker 2: The most definitely, And I think about.
00:14:04
Speaker 1: Watching the episode of your show I watched to prep for today, thinking about my own, thinking about the conversations we had off camera. There is such pressure to achieve certain things by a certain time. When you just said, like, you know, I don't know what I'm doing in personal relationships, I feel like I did that definition of insanity thing over and over and over again, expecting a different result for so long until I finally was like, well, I have no idea what I'm doing. And then I just decided to leave the rat race altogether. But I really had to self examine the pressure I put on myself that was more powerful than I realized. Like I couldn't see it until it was in hindsight. That's why Hindsight's twenty twenty, right sure about what approaching forty and knowing I wanted to be a parent, and what all of these things meant, and perhaps things I ignored because of so much conditioning. And it's like, I don't know, you've played a character who was so pressured like that. Yes, you've you've talked about these things. You've broken your own mold, you adopted your two beautiful kids. You know, you set your own rules. I did, like did playing Charlotte did Working on Sex and the City help you confront some of those things, you know.
00:15:26
Speaker 2: The interesting thing for me, and obviously all four of us are very different. We're very different from our characters though no one believes us though we all have really similarities too, obviously, because you can't play someone that long without like the kind of eventually, Yeah, but I mean, yeah, it's yeah, I mean it's interesting. Also. I think for us the interesting thing was to having our writers know us so well and be so close to us and really specifically right for us. Yeah, that part also bled the lines a lot. But I think for me my kind of like origin story of the whole, my idea of relationships. Kristin I'm talking about. I grew up in the South, where everybody was very very focused, especially because you know, the generation that I was in very focused on getting married. You were supposed to get married if young women went to college, they were you know what. So you know, that's what I was surrounded by. My parents were not that way. My parents were more like hippies. They're now reformed, you know what. I'm saying, you know how it goes. But like I was born in Boulder, Colorado, my dad taught at CEU. It was hippie central. They like I had Miss magazines on our table, you know, at home, right, So they were not of that. But that's what I was surrounded by at school and growing up, and those were my best friends. That's what they were into. But part of me was just like, absolutely not, I must get out of here. I want to be an actress. I want to go to New York. That is all that mattered to me. And I would say when I was young, I'm never getting married. I'm never getting married. And I didn't, which I think is really fun and I'm so fine with that, do you know what I mean? But like, I didn't ever buy in because to me, the conditioning seemed so intense. I just thought, do all those people actually want that? Have they even thought about what they want or what the choices are or what the options are, Because to me, it seemed like the world was completely open and you could do whatever you wanted. I wanted to travel, I want to have adventure. I wanted to act. Obviously, all of us who want to act were a little bit you know, to the side anyway, because it's a strange thing to do right, totally but wonderful. Totally insane and wonderful like magical exploration, you know, it's like a lifelong exploration, which is one of the things that I love the most about it. Let's talk about so back to you asked me about the marriage thing and everything and the thing that I love and when we're this part of the show, this episode is called Drama Queens, and it's when Charlotte meets Trey, which is so exciting finally, but it's also when she has this nightmare book marriage incorporated. And so for me that I it's fun to rewatch it because what I remember of it because I'm really drawing on the people I grew up with, right, and kind of the vibe of everyone has to get married and you're under this pressure to do it by you know, twenty five or whatever they've met the person. I mean, it was hardcore pressure and to have it be so perfect and beautiful and he's supposed to be perfect and beautiful, and the wedding and blah blah blah blah blah, all the things that Charlotte was really important to her. That's what I drew on was what I had seen there. It wasn't what I thought or what I felt, but I certainly knew about it, but they would come up with new ways for me to express it. I remember this book and I would just be like, oh my gosh, And often I would have to have like a page because obviously the others don't agree with me, right, So I would have my didactic Charlotte like I'm going to do this and I'm going to do that, and they would all roll their eyes and I would just be like, oh, you know, but I knew that was my job, right, My job was to be this other voice. And then what I loved because I knew for Michael Patrick, the goal was that, yes, she was going to get what she wanted or what she thought she wanted, and it wasn't going to really make her happy. And because I knew that was the goal, it really helped me. And that that got formulated before this season, or I should say really like rarefied or refined I guess, because it was kind of there before, but they never said to me. We didn't know for sure that the tray plan right, So like early on, I would have like speeches. I think I have a I get the rules book out, the rules like all the nightmare things, and I would just be like, oh my god, this is so hard. But I know that people out there have been conditioned in the same way, yes, and I want to represent them or whatever, and I would try my best. But what I love here is that we have so many, so many holes in this episode drama queens, and so many ways of looking at intimacy and relationships and what do we really want versus what are we told we should want? Yeah, and that is what I think our show did so well, and I knew it at the time, but to be able to look back on it and then also to have it still resonate now, it's kind of amazing.
00:20:11
Speaker 1: It's also really interesting. It's one of those shows and we've had this experience rewatching hours the age you watch it at, you see something new for sure, and based on your life experience, you see something new and something that I realized watching this episode back seeing Charlotte's goal, it is It's exactly what you're talking about. It's the goal she has been raised with. It is a goal that for her is very overt It is a goal that I know, at least for myself, was more subconscious and much more when I look back and really unpack it, bless my wonderful therapist, I can really see that so much of it was also about repair. And it struck me watching the Carrie and Aiden's storyline in this in this portion of the show, because I didn't identify when I was watching the show when it was airing and I was in college and my college best friend Brenna and I would watch every weekend. It was our thing. I didn't identify that Carrie was having her trauma triggered by a good man, by a lack of a problem, by being chosen. Suddenly it's like everything goes haywire. It feels backwards to your reality. And I was like, Oh, that's a that's a woman who has some real relationship trauma. And I wonder what her childhood trauma is and I'm so and I was like, oh, man, like I'm really I got some lessons in in in this life that I see all of this in a different way, and it it is, it's still really really relevant. As much as you go like wait, the book or whatever, right, you know.
00:22:07
Speaker 2: Right, right, right, it's still when I watched this one, because okay, so I don't think I ever said this is called Drama Queens, which is also why it's so funny that Sophia is here. I love it because that's her podcast or her other podcast, work in progress, still functioning, so still going, which is Wonderfulma, Queens is wrap. Drama Queens is wrapped, which is wonder crazy. I'm glad you got to do it.
00:22:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're working on some supplemental goodies.
00:22:28
Speaker 2: Thank you. Oh that's fun. That's good. That's fun. Yes, everyone will be happy to hear that. So this episode, this is so crazy. I love to read the date. The air date was July twenty third, two thousand, the year two thousand. You guys, so funny. Doesn't that sound like a science fiction weird thing? Like we're in twenty twenty five and this was the year tooth? Like what what? What is happening?
00:22:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, saying heading off to call it adorable.
00:22:50
Speaker 2: Oh my god, it's so cute. So we were working on our little butts off in Manhattan. So tired by this point, because this would have been like halfway through the season. This is three or I think we did a lot. Maybe we did eighteen back in the olden days where we did a lot of episodes, I'm sure you remember, and it was directed by the wonderful Alison Andrews. Did you ever meet Alison? Oh so so great director. She was an indie film director. We went through quite a in the beginning. We tried to get female indie film directors and sometimes it went great and sometimes maybe not so perfectly or whatever. And also male indie film directors also very interesting. But Alison just sweetest, sweetest, so positive, and she would.
00:23:32
Speaker 1: Just be like, baby, that was good, Let's just do it again.
00:23:35
Speaker 2: You're like, okay, You're super easy. She created just so much comfort, you know, on the set, which was nice and written by Darren Starr, which also surprised me because by then I thought he was already kind of like off and doing his next thing, because that's what he does, you know, he creates and moves on, creates and moves on basically. But here he is writing a really, really excellent episode right back in the middle of the third season, which the third season is my favorite season. I don't know why, but like for me, this is when everything gels, you know, all of the connections of the storylines, you know, also the locations, and we have directors who are like amping it up usually like all the things.
00:24:17
Speaker 1: It really feels like when you think about sex and the city. And then you go back and you watch. Sometimes you watch the first season and you're like, wait, what show is that? It's like season three, it's really your show?
00:24:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, definitely. I mean, one, it's fascinating, it's amazing. But I had remembered it as being horrible, but when I rewatched, I was like, no, it was great.
00:24:39
Speaker 1: It was just just different.
00:24:40
Speaker 2: Really like it would go one way and then it would go the other way, and then like it's so dark you can't even see us sometimes, you know what I'm saying, Like it's physically dark, yes, which is also very interesting, very crazy. Who's nineteen ninety eight or nine? Yeah, right, let's talk about the episode for a second. Okay, So the thing that I love because I hadn't I watched at the time, and so now I'm rewatching for the first time. Like through life, people'd always say like, oh don't you watch. I mean, if I walk by a TV, I'm like, oh, there we are, you know where I would keep moving because I didn't want to be stuck in the past, right, But that's what's kind of interesting about really, Okay, intentionally, let's look at it.
00:25:28
Speaker 1: Yes, I like it, like.
00:25:30
Speaker 2: It's amazing, and I can kind of get what the fans got, right, Maybe not one hundred percent, because I also remember what was going on this set that day, or whatever was going on with me or you don't trying to say you have other memories, but in terms of certainly the other storylines, like when I watch Aiden and Carry here, I'm so fascinated and I have so many thoughts. I don't think I had all these thoughts back then. I think I was just focused on myself and what I was doing and so excited that she is finally coming. Obviously, like the whole entire thing about intimacy, and also if you look at Stephen Miranda also, they are having such an interesting conversation about what is true intimacy or do we actually want it? Are we ready for it? These are different questions, right, and we asked them, but we we aren't going to go into the backstory like you're saying about trauma. No, I don't think we literally ever said the word trauma. On our show.
00:26:25
Speaker 1: No, it wasn't. It wasn't part of the cultural conversation.
00:26:28
Speaker 2: It definitely wasn't. I think we I'm kind of wanting to have another one of our writers on again, because I had Michael on in the beginning, and we're we've had I've had Jenny and Cindy on. Who are our two female writers, which I think that's all the writers we have at this point, Darren, Michael, Jenny, Cindy. But I wonder, like, when we're talking about these intimacy type storylines, I wonder how much they toyed with thinking about how we got here or the past, because there was a certed effort not to do that because everything has to move so quickly, like all these things happen in twenty three minutes, right, it's got to like bam, bam bam. So we have to have our our you know, down low, and we have to have her like our coffee shop right where we're all this and that and this and that and this and that, and then we have to have Carrie writing, which is her much more introspective. I wonder, you know, when she does say some really really deep and interesting things. But the thing that I love here is that? So Carrie's with Aiden. Aiden is amazing. He is, in her words, too good to be true. She doesn't know if this is actually what she wants. And this is after two years, you know, struggling to get Big to commit and or even talk to her about his feelings. Right now she has this amazing guy who wants her to meet his parents. She does not want to. I don't even remember all of this at all, Like when I rewatched it, I don't remember it one little bit. And I think it's super interesting. But I also think there's a part of it because Aiden is so not New York. There's a part of it where it's also like Carrie is so New York, right, it's not really a common thing. Like I don't know if you remember in second season she follows Big one day. She doesn't know where he is, and he's at church with his mom. She's never met his mom. Then she's hurt that he doesn't want her to meet his mom, right, and he's like, this is something I do with my mom. I go to church. So then she takes Miranda and they drop the him book down the balcony. It's like a whole drama right, but also like that's unusual. I never remember meeting any I'm trying to think now, like you just didn't meet people's parents in New York. It wasn't a thing really so much, do you know what I'm saying? Yes, we're serious. And then you traveled to meet them, you traveled to the to where they were from, to wherever they were from exactly. So I do think there's a bit of like, Aiden's not New York, which is also why he's interesting and different. BIG's very New York obviously, so there's a kind of a bit of that going on, but they don't really say that, which I think is also interesting. But Carrie is obviously very New York, and that's what I think part of her going like, well, I don't even know if I want to meet his parents, which also like he puts up with that.
00:29:01
Speaker 1: I know, it's interesting. There's a really sweet moment when they're walking down the sidewalk together and she goes, you know, it's the whole thing of like, why aren't you married, why are you still single? What's wrong with you? Will your parents be able to tell me what's wrong with you? And John Corbett, good God, that man is charming, I know. And the way he just laughs at her, he is so and it's not crass, it's not cruel. He's very tenderly amused by her, and he just he's like, you're crazy. And what he doesn't say but you see on his face is it's the kind of crazy.
00:29:40
Speaker 2: I like.
00:29:41
Speaker 1: Definitely, And that's so true. It's such a true moment. And they did such a great job as actors together.
00:29:48
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he's incredible.
00:29:50
Speaker 1: And there's something wonderful I think and it and to me, it does speak to intimacy when someone who really loves you is watching you spin about something definitely also knows it's not about them at all.
00:30:02
Speaker 2: Oh, it's so amazing to you're gonna spend Okay, Oh definitely definitely and not get card right, I agree, I agree, And very different obviously than her dynamic with Big where she's sinned and he kind of judges or I feel like it even makes him more more remote. Yes, yes, which.
00:30:20
Speaker 1: Is anytime she has human emotion that is imperfect, right, he can't handle it right, which and aiden is both figuratively and physically. It's like he's a big container for her feelings.
00:30:33
Speaker 2: Which is amazing, amazing, I know, amazing, amazing. I mean, yes, sometimes I think about where we know they go. I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I still have to It is processing what I know and then what I'm seeing in the olden days and trying to chart it all, you know. But I also feel and people have said to me, well, that doesn't make sense. But that doesn't make sense. But you change as you live. Yeah, so you can't necessarily know at thirty five or whatever our characters are. I think we're roughly thirty five at this point, and we're not real people. It should be said. Also, life changes you, yes, as you're living it. That's what's supposed to happen, right, Yeah, so you don't know what you're going to be like at sixty or fifty five. When you're thirty five. Different things you're going to happen to you that are going to shape you, yes, right. I think people don't realize that.
00:31:30
Speaker 1: Well, And it's part of why I think it's so crazy when you talk about not crazy, but I mean sort of societally, what we all do. The idea that you know, where you were raised, women were supposed to be married by twenty five, you're supposed to go to college and get your mrs. Your prefrontal cortex is not done developing, I know, like your literal brain is not the brain of an adult until you're twenty six or twenty seven years old. And I'm going, what in the world people are letting people get married?
00:32:02
Speaker 2: I know people get married younger than that, definitely, I know, I know, But I mean the world is changing, because definitely I don't think. I don't think that pressure is there now in the same way at the same age, I think the pressure might be there. I read something over the weekend about not just getting married but success, like career success, and how thirty five is what they now Younger people have in their minds like I need to be you know, like successful at thirty five whatever that means for me, which is also nothing's true, right, Like that's not true. You know, you might have one job at thirty five and then be miserable and want to leave it and find another job or another calling or another you know mission in life. You have no idea it never ends. And that was part of the reason we wanted to do And just like that is that life is not over. Yes, it's still an adventure. You still don't know what might happen. There's still decisions and life changing events and things happen. Why why pretend somehow that when you hit forty five or fifty or whatever arbitrary number you want to come up with it, your life is over.
00:33:13
Speaker 1: Wait. No, I think all the time about phases.
00:33:18
Speaker 2: You know.
00:33:18
Speaker 1: I was having this conversation just yesterday with a friend and I said, I might, I might do something completely different with my life at fifty. I don't know. Yeah, I think about the same thing we're at sixty or seventy, Like, why not, right.
00:33:32
Speaker 2: No, you can do whatever you want. Yeah, it's a great thing to remember. It's important.
00:33:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know.
00:33:37
Speaker 2: I agree. Okay, let's talk about that episode. Sometimes it's hard to go back, but we will, we will, we will. So what I love, I love, love love this whole intimacy conversation. So Carrie has what she thought she wanted. Yep, he is basically choosing her. And now she's stressing. She can't sleep at night, She's wake up in the middle of the night. She doesn't know why. So interesting, right, and then she she goes who she's He says he wants to, you know, introduce her to the parents, and she panics, and he obviously is very patient with her, which I think is amazing. And then and he says to her, It's no big deal. I have a life. I'm just making room for you in it.
00:34:17
Speaker 1: I know, right, yeah, I mean, my gosh.
00:34:20
Speaker 2: So then she comes to the opera with me, which is adorable, because I was trying to get I've left out myself. So I've got the book marriage incorporated. I assume it's a real book. I don't even know, my god insane. And yeah, it says I'm at the coffee shop with them, and I tell them this book says not to hang out with my single, dysfunctional friends that I need to hang out with Memo Fra. I can't believe they don't just like, you know, like Charlotte Dotava, you know what I mean, Like what on earth? I'm so bold? But and also that to me is a crazy thing to say. Yes, like wow, like come on.
00:34:57
Speaker 1: Well, and and but what I think is sweet about it. And I think clearly the dynamic of these four women, you know, these friends know each other.
00:35:04
Speaker 2: Yes, you not.
00:35:07
Speaker 1: Only say the thing that could really sting but then you explain that the book explains that you're supposed to treat finding and the way you would treat starting a business. There are there is a checklist. You are going to hang out right with married friends because they're they've got good single friends. And it's like it's insane, but of course someone wrote it, and of course people taking this advice.
00:35:32
Speaker 2: Yes, and I mean, thank god, they love her, you know, and they're just like, okay, Charlotte. But also then, I mean, to me, it's also kind of crazy to think that the married people's friends would somehow be different than the people that us single ladies would meet. How why they're just single people? It makes no sense, But whatever, Charlotte's going to try. What Charlotte's going to try. So she's hounding this guy who we've never seen this couple before, the apparently Charlotte and his other friends, Dennis Way. She's hounding him to set her up with one of his single friends, and he's dodging her kind of right, and she can't figure it out. So she had tickets to the opera and she had said to him, oh great, I have tickets to the opera. Yes, but he hasn't gotten back to her, so she doesn't know what's going on, so she asked carry, which is kind of wonderful because first of all, I remember that day and I remember going to the opera. I was so excited that I got to go with Carrie because sometimes I don't get to do the walk and talks, you know, I always wanted to do the walking talks. So I'm like, oh, we guys go.
00:36:30
Speaker 1: To the opera. It's even better.
00:36:31
Speaker 2: It's even better than a walk and talk because I mean a scene at the opera is always a great thing in film, right, I mean, yeah, it's a kind of a It's done a lot when you look at things like it's in action films, it's in I've just watched The Morning Show. They had an opera you know scenario in the Morning Show. I know. I think it's because opera's so dramatic, like you wouldn't necessarily show people how to play, though we do do that later on because Schmid is an actor, right, But like the opera is the height of emotion, So I think that's partly why.
00:37:01
Speaker 1: And it's so New York, right, and you're so drap and it's so New York and gorgeous. I realize when you're talking about how Carrie's struggling because Aiden is so not New York. She goes and has the most New York night and exactly with her little tiny, you know, binoculars, she sees Big and Natasha and then she gets up and dramatically leaves.
00:37:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. I Also it's funny because I don't remember Carrie being so dramatic. She's pretty dramatic. It's interesting, it's interesting. I don't really remember that. I think at the time I really felt all Carrie's feelings.
00:37:39
Speaker 1: Oh totally. Well, it's it's part of the discourse even now when people are like that, that was this woman so many of us identified with, and we look back and go like, this is unhinged. But at the time it didn't. It didn't be. And I think there's something really interesting about how just unhinged society was in general when you think about the early aughts and how women were being treated. Oh you know what I mean, I do things were nuts, Sure, nuts. She might seem nuts now, but she really didn't at the time.
00:38:11
Speaker 2: But the other thing is that I think Sarah Jessica as an actor is so grounded. Yes, that when you look, well, if you take a step back and go, oh, she's so dramatic how she leaves the opera, but she makes it so real.
00:38:24
Speaker 1: It's so real, it's so honest. She cannot sit across from them, knowing they're there. And by the way she even says in her voiceover, she says, not to be dramatic. We're in the most dramatic exit or whatever she says.
00:38:40
Speaker 2: She acknowledges that you're absolutely right. She's aware. There's so much self awareness, and we know that because of the voice over and because of the writing, and that's why we can kind of be inside those feelings.
00:38:51
Speaker 1: And I think there was something when it's dawning on me in this moment, you know, Yes, she did such a beautiful job playing Carrie, And I think humanized Cary for us, and I think for any of us who's trying to get over our good girl syndrome, the idea that this woman said I can't be here and listened to her feelings true and took care of herself instead of staying to please her friend and I'm staying to prove she could. And sitting in that seat panicking for the rest of the opera.
00:39:27
Speaker 2: That's true.
00:39:28
Speaker 1: She just said no, I can't do it, and I'm not gonna You're right, that's actually a big deal.
00:39:32
Speaker 2: I agree, And it also goes back to I think the freedom that they all feel with each other, meaning the four of us, Like I can say this crazy thing about I can't hang out with you guys because you're dysfunctional, single people, which is a lot to say, and they're just like, yeah, okay, we get it, you're Charlotte. And then she can say like I've got to leave, and I can just be fine, you know what I'm saying. Like, you know, I do think that that is also a testament to how well they know each other, how much they love each other, and the room they have for each other to be their full selves. Yes, right, which is a beautiful thing and very thankful that they that they did that for us. You know, you guys, this is so much fun that we're going to have to have a part two, so join us later in the week on are You as Charlotte h
Speaker 1: Hi.
00:00:02
Speaker 2: I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are you a Charlotte. I can talk to you about this because you have a podcast. You actually have two that you just finished. We'll get to in a second. Sophia Bushes here, you guys, this is how we roll. Okay's on it. I saw this post one time, or like a whole thing from this lady on Instagram who I don't know, talking about how on Amy Polish podcast, everyone's like, what do you mean you're rolling? And she thought that was fake or something or weird and why didn't they know if they'd been in the green room. And I'm like, oh, honey, we don't have green rooms, right, And we're used to film where there's like rolling, and there's you know, you know, like for us, like we're just sitting in a chair and we're chatting and we're catching up, we're talking about our kids and whatever, and then our very smart producers are just rolling because they're so so smart that it's the way podcasts are and we love it.
00:01:02
Speaker 1: I love it, right, because it's so easy. You also catch a little bit of magic that way, I find.
00:01:07
Speaker 2: I agree, Yeah, I agree, that's why they're so smart to just do it and not wait for anybody to start.
00:01:13
Speaker 1: I like Easton just rubbing his phone together, like.
00:01:16
Speaker 2: He totally totally, so you I love. I've wanted to talk just briefly about Drama Queens. So you did this podcast Drama Queens about One Tree Hill, the show that you were on that was massive, massive, massive. I've never seen it, but when I was preparing to do Are You Charlotte, they said to listen to Drama Queens. So I listened Drama Queens, of course, not understanding what you guys were talking about, but really enjoying that there were three of you and you had such great camaraderie and you got to kind of rehash memories as well as talking about the plot, like and how smart were you to do this when you started it?
00:01:51
Speaker 1: I mean thank you, honestly, I think because I had started my my solo show, work in progress and loved it so much, when honestly, it was a pandemic project for US Drama Art, so you know, everything shut down. I was preparing to shoot a show in Canada. We all got sent home. I remember thinking, oh, yeah, we'll go back to work in two weeks. I mean, crazy and then we were in lockdown and I was facetiming with my girlfriends from the show, and one night, you know, we were all kind of like, well, it's eight o'clock on the East Coast, five o'clock out here. You know, we cracked bottles of wine together and we're like everybody's making dinner and we're talking, and I was like, wait a second, Like this is a show, this is something I think people would love. And when I pitched the idea first to Hillary and then she and I called Joy, we were kind of not sure what it would be. There weren't really rewatch shows yet. I think maybe Office Ladies was out and that might have been the only one at that point, and we didn't really know what it was going to be. But the show wound up being such a kind of reclamation for us. And you know, not only were we so god, we were so young on that show and so isolated and so ill equipped. I think, you know, aren't we all yeah, with their nap, I don't think we were capable of having certain conversations or we're even figuring out, you know, the line between personal and professional, which is so hard muddy when you're on location, especially of course.
00:03:33
Speaker 2: And you guys were North Carolina. Yeah, I'm from South Carolina. I've filmed in Wilmington.
00:03:38
Speaker 1: Wellington's a different world.
00:03:39
Speaker 2: It is lovely and different.
00:03:41
Speaker 1: But yeah, very different, and I think for us especially complicated because we were in this sort of no man's land. We were just older than all the college kids at UNCW wow, but so much younger than all the like golf dads who were really young. So it was like a weird. It was just a weird. We were very isolated and the show I think had great high highs and some low lows, and we were just able to process together in a way.
00:04:11
Speaker 2: That was which is so amazing and so beloved by fans, Like what a gift to the fans.
00:04:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, the fans really their love of the show. And I imagine you feel this with Sex and the City because it also is an evergreen show. It was really their love of the show that sort of forced us back, you know, it brought us home. We kept being invited back to Wilmington, we kept being asked about it, and I think we finally hit a point where we thought we want to experience it like they did, Like, yeah, what are all these people so into.
00:04:50
Speaker 2: That's fun and I got to have it totally. I think that's great and I think for me, you know, when I do have obviously different people from the show on, it's really fun of course to have them in really easy and different and hard.
00:05:02
Speaker 1: Like I was thinking about, I had.
00:05:04
Speaker 2: Seen Michael Patrick since we rapped and just like that and decided not to go on. And I said, you know, I'm still trying to process the end of that chapter. And he said, wait, you're trying to process in real time on the podcast. I said yes, because I'm you have to talk about it like yeah, in it and even though I'm talking about sex and the city specifically, to me, it's all one thing.
00:05:28
Speaker 1: Well, it's it's a universe.
00:05:30
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:05:30
Speaker 1: And I think you know the interesting thing because we get asked about this a lot, even in terms of one Trehill, like what would they be doing now? Would you ever go back?
00:05:39
Speaker 2: You know, would love to ask us that.
00:05:40
Speaker 1: We've investigated those things. And when you play someone for as long as I played Brooke Davis or you played Charlotte Yorke like they are a real person to you. You know, Brooke feels like a cousin of mine or.
00:05:54
Speaker 2: A sister almost well put, yeah.
00:05:56
Speaker 1: And I do have all sorts of thoughts about her life and her growth and her evolution of course, and it as a fan of your show, you know, I always say to people, They're like, do you have a one Tree Hill? I'm my cas Sex in the City. It was my one tree hill, like it's my show, so nice, thank you. And as a viewer, I have loved revisiting these people with all of you.
00:06:18
Speaker 2: Oh good. But it's like, I guess not everyone feels that way.
00:06:22
Speaker 1: Well people listen, people these days just want to hate everything so they don't have to admit how much they, like I don't know, hate their own lives.
00:06:30
Speaker 2: So here we are right, right, and that.
00:06:33
Speaker 1: Is just such access pool.
00:06:34
Speaker 2: But I want to ask you another question though about this, because I do there's definitely like different baskets, right, Like I have a basket of Like, yes, our world is a mess, right, and so people are it's much safer to obsess about. For instance, I had Bridget Monahan who Moynahan who plays Natasha on and we're both wearing our wireroom glasses and this one lady went on there and commented like I don't care for the wireroom glasses, and I was like, wow, Okay, this is that's what you want to comment on. Like we talked about so many interesting things, But do you think it's much easier to do that than to think about our world and the crazy, horrible things happening in our world? Right?
00:07:10
Speaker 1: Totally?
00:07:10
Speaker 2: It's really hard to tackle that. So I get it. I get that, like we're putting things out there and people are going to have their feelings and they might nitpick, and I get that. So that's one basket. But then I think a different basket, And this is what I'm super curious about your feelings on watching us. But also if you think about revisiting One Tree Hill to see the character's age, I think really triggers people. Yeah, like they don't really want sometimes to see us age. I guess it depends on the age of the fan, right, Yeah, so some fans they Because then also the way HBO is HBO Max whatever I'm supposed to call it, it feeds right from and just like that into the old Sex and the City. So it's like our younger selves are smacked up against our you know, current selves, right Yeah, And that's upsetting for some people. I guess younger people maybe, do you know what I mean, they don't necessarily want to confront that.
00:08:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you think of that? I know it is weird, you know, I'm sure there's been great discourse about it. I'm not chronically online enough.
00:08:11
Speaker 2: Oh, I don't think there's great discourse about it.
00:08:14
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I guess for me, I'm like, I'm sure some amazing person on TikTok has like gone through the social science studies of this or something. But I will say, as someone who is both a fan and in the ways we all do know we know each other. Yeah, as a woman, it's been like, so, I don't want to I don't want to be over dramatic or melodramatic, but I mean it it's painful to watch the way exceptional women will, just to your point, be nitpicked and dragged and discussed like things not people.
00:08:53
Speaker 2: Yes, And you know.
00:08:55
Speaker 1: I caught myself rolling my eyes when you you know, you said the thing about the woman who made the comment about the wireroom glass. Since on the one hand, I'm like, keep it to yourself, like, just shut the fuck up. And then on the other hand, I'm like, you know, I do understand that people are. Everyone's so stressed and so anxious and so worried, and things are really crazy. It's a crazy time to be on the earth. And so I get that the pressure valve gets released, I think often in the wrong direction. Yeah, but I think the larger discourse, how dare you age? If you do anything about aging? How dare you do something? Ye're so vain if you if you don't do enough? Why are you letting yourself go if they decide you've done too much? Oh yeah, don't you have any friends who said stop totally? If you like that?
00:09:44
Speaker 2: Were you thinking? Oh my god?
00:09:47
Speaker 1: And I I just am like, we're still here, Like nobody's talking. Nobody's talking about that with any of the dudes. Like are people picking Brad Pitt's face upon? I don't know.
00:10:00
Speaker 2: I think they are.
00:10:01
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, actually I do see men being pulled into the Yes, the world it's now a little bit going towards them, And sometimes I feel glad about it.
00:10:09
Speaker 2: Sometimes I also feel sad about it. You see what I'm saying, Like it is a mixed but I also feel I feel and that's a different We're in a different basket now. This is how I separate it in my mind when I'm thinking about it, and it helps me to dissect it, you know, to dissect like what is actually driving these conversations. And in terms of the aging situation, my feeling is that because I'm significantly older than you, right, so like we have been Oh yeah, yes, okay, definitely, I'm sixty years old, Sophia six, I am you hot us right?
00:10:44
Speaker 1: Thank you?
00:10:45
Speaker 2: I love it. I love it to get in good compliments. Thank you so much.
00:10:49
Speaker 1: I'll take it.
00:10:49
Speaker 2: I'll take it up.
00:10:50
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm like, well, I do feel thrilled to be alive in this moment where women are just not giving up.
00:11:01
Speaker 2: But it is this struggle. It is the struggle like you look at to me more, I mean, what a incredible situation. Like if you listen to her talk and she says, I'm creating my own rules. Yes, to me, create your own rules. We do not have to live by other people's rules. We don't. We don't, and I think we just need to say this to each other. That doesn't mean that I'm going to do everything that Demi is doing or whatever it is or not. I'm also not going to judge her. She is creating her own existence. She is living by her own rules, she is doing what she wants. More power to her. I love it so much and I think it's so powerful, Like whenever I see her talking about it, I'm like, oh God, it's just so refreshing, because that's what you need to remember, Like we can create our own existence. We can say to ourselves, you know what, I'm not going to let this cultural morass of insanity about aging get inside me than it already is. Right, it's already there. But I can live and find joy and what I find And I've got little kids and they keep me young and I'm running around with them and you know, I don't understand what I'm doing personal relationships, but.
00:12:12
Speaker 1: I kind of never have. You know what I'm saying, What would be different about that?
00:12:15
Speaker 2: Right?
00:12:16
Speaker 1: We have so much to talk about off this podcast. Totally, totally, totally I have a question about that. Yeah, because I think there's really something elemental about aging. And some of my buckets are what a privilege it is to age. We're so lucky to be alive. Yes, I'm also to this point, I'm thrilled to be alive at a time where women are rewriting the rules where you are the picture of sixty. We're not told that we have to look like the Golden Girls by the time we're forty five. And by the way, No Shade and one of my favorite shows of all time, of course, but women were put into a box of being quote elderly right by the time they were in their mid forties. I don't feel elderly. I still feel like I'm twenty seven.
00:13:04
Speaker 2: And you look like you're twenty seven.
00:13:06
Speaker 1: Well, thank you. I'm smarter than I was at twenty seven, for sure. But you know, I think about that privilege. I think about the way we're critiqued. I think about the way we are often and sort of historically categorically discarded. And then I also think about the sort of subconscious aspect of aging and especially over the generation that we kind of came of age, if you will, from your show really setting the tone into the Dawson's Creek into my show, like the conversations are changing. What millennial or I guess what gen Z women are going through now is so like leaps and bounds above sort of permission, opportunity, all the things we really had. We were kind of breaking the rules now they were rewriting.
00:14:00
Speaker 2: The most definitely, And I think about.
00:14:04
Speaker 1: Watching the episode of your show I watched to prep for today, thinking about my own, thinking about the conversations we had off camera. There is such pressure to achieve certain things by a certain time. When you just said, like, you know, I don't know what I'm doing in personal relationships, I feel like I did that definition of insanity thing over and over and over again, expecting a different result for so long until I finally was like, well, I have no idea what I'm doing. And then I just decided to leave the rat race altogether. But I really had to self examine the pressure I put on myself that was more powerful than I realized. Like I couldn't see it until it was in hindsight. That's why Hindsight's twenty twenty, right sure about what approaching forty and knowing I wanted to be a parent, and what all of these things meant, and perhaps things I ignored because of so much conditioning. And it's like, I don't know, you've played a character who was so pressured like that. Yes, you've you've talked about these things. You've broken your own mold, you adopted your two beautiful kids. You know, you set your own rules. I did, like did playing Charlotte did Working on Sex and the City help you confront some of those things, you know.
00:15:26
Speaker 2: The interesting thing for me, and obviously all four of us are very different. We're very different from our characters though no one believes us though we all have really similarities too, obviously, because you can't play someone that long without like the kind of eventually, Yeah, but I mean, yeah, it's yeah, I mean it's interesting. Also. I think for us the interesting thing was to having our writers know us so well and be so close to us and really specifically right for us. Yeah, that part also bled the lines a lot. But I think for me my kind of like origin story of the whole, my idea of relationships. Kristin I'm talking about. I grew up in the South, where everybody was very very focused, especially because you know, the generation that I was in very focused on getting married. You were supposed to get married if young women went to college, they were you know what. So you know, that's what I was surrounded by. My parents were not that way. My parents were more like hippies. They're now reformed, you know what. I'm saying, you know how it goes. But like I was born in Boulder, Colorado, my dad taught at CEU. It was hippie central. They like I had Miss magazines on our table, you know, at home, right, So they were not of that. But that's what I was surrounded by at school and growing up, and those were my best friends. That's what they were into. But part of me was just like, absolutely not, I must get out of here. I want to be an actress. I want to go to New York. That is all that mattered to me. And I would say when I was young, I'm never getting married. I'm never getting married. And I didn't, which I think is really fun and I'm so fine with that, do you know what I mean? But like, I didn't ever buy in because to me, the conditioning seemed so intense. I just thought, do all those people actually want that? Have they even thought about what they want or what the choices are or what the options are, Because to me, it seemed like the world was completely open and you could do whatever you wanted. I wanted to travel, I want to have adventure. I wanted to act. Obviously, all of us who want to act were a little bit you know, to the side anyway, because it's a strange thing to do right, totally but wonderful. Totally insane and wonderful like magical exploration, you know, it's like a lifelong exploration, which is one of the things that I love the most about it. Let's talk about so back to you asked me about the marriage thing and everything and the thing that I love and when we're this part of the show, this episode is called Drama Queens, and it's when Charlotte meets Trey, which is so exciting finally, but it's also when she has this nightmare book marriage incorporated. And so for me that I it's fun to rewatch it because what I remember of it because I'm really drawing on the people I grew up with, right, and kind of the vibe of everyone has to get married and you're under this pressure to do it by you know, twenty five or whatever they've met the person. I mean, it was hardcore pressure and to have it be so perfect and beautiful and he's supposed to be perfect and beautiful, and the wedding and blah blah blah blah blah, all the things that Charlotte was really important to her. That's what I drew on was what I had seen there. It wasn't what I thought or what I felt, but I certainly knew about it, but they would come up with new ways for me to express it. I remember this book and I would just be like, oh my gosh, And often I would have to have like a page because obviously the others don't agree with me, right, So I would have my didactic Charlotte like I'm going to do this and I'm going to do that, and they would all roll their eyes and I would just be like, oh, you know, but I knew that was my job, right, My job was to be this other voice. And then what I loved because I knew for Michael Patrick, the goal was that, yes, she was going to get what she wanted or what she thought she wanted, and it wasn't going to really make her happy. And because I knew that was the goal, it really helped me. And that that got formulated before this season, or I should say really like rarefied or refined I guess, because it was kind of there before, but they never said to me. We didn't know for sure that the tray plan right, So like early on, I would have like speeches. I think I have a I get the rules book out, the rules like all the nightmare things, and I would just be like, oh my god, this is so hard. But I know that people out there have been conditioned in the same way, yes, and I want to represent them or whatever, and I would try my best. But what I love here is that we have so many, so many holes in this episode drama queens, and so many ways of looking at intimacy and relationships and what do we really want versus what are we told we should want? Yeah, and that is what I think our show did so well, and I knew it at the time, but to be able to look back on it and then also to have it still resonate now, it's kind of amazing.
00:20:11
Speaker 1: It's also really interesting. It's one of those shows and we've had this experience rewatching hours the age you watch it at, you see something new for sure, and based on your life experience, you see something new and something that I realized watching this episode back seeing Charlotte's goal, it is It's exactly what you're talking about. It's the goal she has been raised with. It is a goal that for her is very overt It is a goal that I know, at least for myself, was more subconscious and much more when I look back and really unpack it, bless my wonderful therapist, I can really see that so much of it was also about repair. And it struck me watching the Carrie and Aiden's storyline in this in this portion of the show, because I didn't identify when I was watching the show when it was airing and I was in college and my college best friend Brenna and I would watch every weekend. It was our thing. I didn't identify that Carrie was having her trauma triggered by a good man, by a lack of a problem, by being chosen. Suddenly it's like everything goes haywire. It feels backwards to your reality. And I was like, Oh, that's a that's a woman who has some real relationship trauma. And I wonder what her childhood trauma is and I'm so and I was like, oh, man, like I'm really I got some lessons in in in this life that I see all of this in a different way, and it it is, it's still really really relevant. As much as you go like wait, the book or whatever, right, you know.
00:22:07
Speaker 2: Right, right, right, it's still when I watched this one, because okay, so I don't think I ever said this is called Drama Queens, which is also why it's so funny that Sophia is here. I love it because that's her podcast or her other podcast, work in progress, still functioning, so still going, which is Wonderfulma, Queens is wrap. Drama Queens is wrapped, which is wonder crazy. I'm glad you got to do it.
00:22:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're working on some supplemental goodies.
00:22:28
Speaker 2: Thank you. Oh that's fun. That's good. That's fun. Yes, everyone will be happy to hear that. So this episode, this is so crazy. I love to read the date. The air date was July twenty third, two thousand, the year two thousand. You guys, so funny. Doesn't that sound like a science fiction weird thing? Like we're in twenty twenty five and this was the year tooth? Like what what? What is happening?
00:22:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, saying heading off to call it adorable.
00:22:50
Speaker 2: Oh my god, it's so cute. So we were working on our little butts off in Manhattan. So tired by this point, because this would have been like halfway through the season. This is three or I think we did a lot. Maybe we did eighteen back in the olden days where we did a lot of episodes, I'm sure you remember, and it was directed by the wonderful Alison Andrews. Did you ever meet Alison? Oh so so great director. She was an indie film director. We went through quite a in the beginning. We tried to get female indie film directors and sometimes it went great and sometimes maybe not so perfectly or whatever. And also male indie film directors also very interesting. But Alison just sweetest, sweetest, so positive, and she would.
00:23:32
Speaker 1: Just be like, baby, that was good, Let's just do it again.
00:23:35
Speaker 2: You're like, okay, You're super easy. She created just so much comfort, you know, on the set, which was nice and written by Darren Starr, which also surprised me because by then I thought he was already kind of like off and doing his next thing, because that's what he does, you know, he creates and moves on, creates and moves on basically. But here he is writing a really, really excellent episode right back in the middle of the third season, which the third season is my favorite season. I don't know why, but like for me, this is when everything gels, you know, all of the connections of the storylines, you know, also the locations, and we have directors who are like amping it up usually like all the things.
00:24:17
Speaker 1: It really feels like when you think about sex and the city. And then you go back and you watch. Sometimes you watch the first season and you're like, wait, what show is that? It's like season three, it's really your show?
00:24:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, definitely. I mean, one, it's fascinating, it's amazing. But I had remembered it as being horrible, but when I rewatched, I was like, no, it was great.
00:24:39
Speaker 1: It was just just different.
00:24:40
Speaker 2: Really like it would go one way and then it would go the other way, and then like it's so dark you can't even see us sometimes, you know what I'm saying, Like it's physically dark, yes, which is also very interesting, very crazy. Who's nineteen ninety eight or nine? Yeah, right, let's talk about the episode for a second. Okay, So the thing that I love because I hadn't I watched at the time, and so now I'm rewatching for the first time. Like through life, people'd always say like, oh don't you watch. I mean, if I walk by a TV, I'm like, oh, there we are, you know where I would keep moving because I didn't want to be stuck in the past, right, But that's what's kind of interesting about really, Okay, intentionally, let's look at it.
00:25:28
Speaker 1: Yes, I like it, like.
00:25:30
Speaker 2: It's amazing, and I can kind of get what the fans got, right, Maybe not one hundred percent, because I also remember what was going on this set that day, or whatever was going on with me or you don't trying to say you have other memories, but in terms of certainly the other storylines, like when I watch Aiden and Carry here, I'm so fascinated and I have so many thoughts. I don't think I had all these thoughts back then. I think I was just focused on myself and what I was doing and so excited that she is finally coming. Obviously, like the whole entire thing about intimacy, and also if you look at Stephen Miranda also, they are having such an interesting conversation about what is true intimacy or do we actually want it? Are we ready for it? These are different questions, right, and we asked them, but we we aren't going to go into the backstory like you're saying about trauma. No, I don't think we literally ever said the word trauma. On our show.
00:26:25
Speaker 1: No, it wasn't. It wasn't part of the cultural conversation.
00:26:28
Speaker 2: It definitely wasn't. I think we I'm kind of wanting to have another one of our writers on again, because I had Michael on in the beginning, and we're we've had I've had Jenny and Cindy on. Who are our two female writers, which I think that's all the writers we have at this point, Darren, Michael, Jenny, Cindy. But I wonder, like, when we're talking about these intimacy type storylines, I wonder how much they toyed with thinking about how we got here or the past, because there was a certed effort not to do that because everything has to move so quickly, like all these things happen in twenty three minutes, right, it's got to like bam, bam bam. So we have to have our our you know, down low, and we have to have her like our coffee shop right where we're all this and that and this and that and this and that, and then we have to have Carrie writing, which is her much more introspective. I wonder, you know, when she does say some really really deep and interesting things. But the thing that I love here is that? So Carrie's with Aiden. Aiden is amazing. He is, in her words, too good to be true. She doesn't know if this is actually what she wants. And this is after two years, you know, struggling to get Big to commit and or even talk to her about his feelings. Right now she has this amazing guy who wants her to meet his parents. She does not want to. I don't even remember all of this at all, Like when I rewatched it, I don't remember it one little bit. And I think it's super interesting. But I also think there's a part of it because Aiden is so not New York. There's a part of it where it's also like Carrie is so New York, right, it's not really a common thing. Like I don't know if you remember in second season she follows Big one day. She doesn't know where he is, and he's at church with his mom. She's never met his mom. Then she's hurt that he doesn't want her to meet his mom, right, and he's like, this is something I do with my mom. I go to church. So then she takes Miranda and they drop the him book down the balcony. It's like a whole drama right, but also like that's unusual. I never remember meeting any I'm trying to think now, like you just didn't meet people's parents in New York. It wasn't a thing really so much, do you know what I'm saying? Yes, we're serious. And then you traveled to meet them, you traveled to the to where they were from, to wherever they were from exactly. So I do think there's a bit of like, Aiden's not New York, which is also why he's interesting and different. BIG's very New York obviously, so there's a kind of a bit of that going on, but they don't really say that, which I think is also interesting. But Carrie is obviously very New York, and that's what I think part of her going like, well, I don't even know if I want to meet his parents, which also like he puts up with that.
00:29:01
Speaker 1: I know, it's interesting. There's a really sweet moment when they're walking down the sidewalk together and she goes, you know, it's the whole thing of like, why aren't you married, why are you still single? What's wrong with you? Will your parents be able to tell me what's wrong with you? And John Corbett, good God, that man is charming, I know. And the way he just laughs at her, he is so and it's not crass, it's not cruel. He's very tenderly amused by her, and he just he's like, you're crazy. And what he doesn't say but you see on his face is it's the kind of crazy.
00:29:40
Speaker 2: I like.
00:29:41
Speaker 1: Definitely, And that's so true. It's such a true moment. And they did such a great job as actors together.
00:29:48
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he's incredible.
00:29:50
Speaker 1: And there's something wonderful I think and it and to me, it does speak to intimacy when someone who really loves you is watching you spin about something definitely also knows it's not about them at all.
00:30:02
Speaker 2: Oh, it's so amazing to you're gonna spend Okay, Oh definitely definitely and not get card right, I agree, I agree, And very different obviously than her dynamic with Big where she's sinned and he kind of judges or I feel like it even makes him more more remote. Yes, yes, which.
00:30:20
Speaker 1: Is anytime she has human emotion that is imperfect, right, he can't handle it right, which and aiden is both figuratively and physically. It's like he's a big container for her feelings.
00:30:33
Speaker 2: Which is amazing, amazing, I know, amazing, amazing. I mean, yes, sometimes I think about where we know they go. I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I still have to It is processing what I know and then what I'm seeing in the olden days and trying to chart it all, you know. But I also feel and people have said to me, well, that doesn't make sense. But that doesn't make sense. But you change as you live. Yeah, so you can't necessarily know at thirty five or whatever our characters are. I think we're roughly thirty five at this point, and we're not real people. It should be said. Also, life changes you, yes, as you're living it. That's what's supposed to happen, right, Yeah, so you don't know what you're going to be like at sixty or fifty five. When you're thirty five. Different things you're going to happen to you that are going to shape you, yes, right. I think people don't realize that.
00:31:30
Speaker 1: Well, And it's part of why I think it's so crazy when you talk about not crazy, but I mean sort of societally, what we all do. The idea that you know, where you were raised, women were supposed to be married by twenty five, you're supposed to go to college and get your mrs. Your prefrontal cortex is not done developing, I know, like your literal brain is not the brain of an adult until you're twenty six or twenty seven years old. And I'm going, what in the world people are letting people get married?
00:32:02
Speaker 2: I know people get married younger than that, definitely, I know, I know, But I mean the world is changing, because definitely I don't think. I don't think that pressure is there now in the same way at the same age, I think the pressure might be there. I read something over the weekend about not just getting married but success, like career success, and how thirty five is what they now Younger people have in their minds like I need to be you know, like successful at thirty five whatever that means for me, which is also nothing's true, right, Like that's not true. You know, you might have one job at thirty five and then be miserable and want to leave it and find another job or another calling or another you know mission in life. You have no idea it never ends. And that was part of the reason we wanted to do And just like that is that life is not over. Yes, it's still an adventure. You still don't know what might happen. There's still decisions and life changing events and things happen. Why why pretend somehow that when you hit forty five or fifty or whatever arbitrary number you want to come up with it, your life is over.
00:33:13
Speaker 1: Wait. No, I think all the time about phases.
00:33:18
Speaker 2: You know.
00:33:18
Speaker 1: I was having this conversation just yesterday with a friend and I said, I might, I might do something completely different with my life at fifty. I don't know. Yeah, I think about the same thing we're at sixty or seventy, Like, why not, right.
00:33:32
Speaker 2: No, you can do whatever you want. Yeah, it's a great thing to remember. It's important.
00:33:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know.
00:33:37
Speaker 2: I agree. Okay, let's talk about that episode. Sometimes it's hard to go back, but we will, we will, we will. So what I love, I love, love love this whole intimacy conversation. So Carrie has what she thought she wanted. Yep, he is basically choosing her. And now she's stressing. She can't sleep at night, She's wake up in the middle of the night. She doesn't know why. So interesting, right, and then she she goes who she's He says he wants to, you know, introduce her to the parents, and she panics, and he obviously is very patient with her, which I think is amazing. And then and he says to her, It's no big deal. I have a life. I'm just making room for you in it.
00:34:17
Speaker 1: I know, right, yeah, I mean, my gosh.
00:34:20
Speaker 2: So then she comes to the opera with me, which is adorable, because I was trying to get I've left out myself. So I've got the book marriage incorporated. I assume it's a real book. I don't even know, my god insane. And yeah, it says I'm at the coffee shop with them, and I tell them this book says not to hang out with my single, dysfunctional friends that I need to hang out with Memo Fra. I can't believe they don't just like, you know, like Charlotte Dotava, you know what I mean, Like what on earth? I'm so bold? But and also that to me is a crazy thing to say. Yes, like wow, like come on.
00:34:57
Speaker 1: Well, and and but what I think is sweet about it. And I think clearly the dynamic of these four women, you know, these friends know each other.
00:35:04
Speaker 2: Yes, you not.
00:35:07
Speaker 1: Only say the thing that could really sting but then you explain that the book explains that you're supposed to treat finding and the way you would treat starting a business. There are there is a checklist. You are going to hang out right with married friends because they're they've got good single friends. And it's like it's insane, but of course someone wrote it, and of course people taking this advice.
00:35:32
Speaker 2: Yes, and I mean, thank god, they love her, you know, and they're just like, okay, Charlotte. But also then, I mean, to me, it's also kind of crazy to think that the married people's friends would somehow be different than the people that us single ladies would meet. How why they're just single people? It makes no sense, But whatever, Charlotte's going to try. What Charlotte's going to try. So she's hounding this guy who we've never seen this couple before, the apparently Charlotte and his other friends, Dennis Way. She's hounding him to set her up with one of his single friends, and he's dodging her kind of right, and she can't figure it out. So she had tickets to the opera and she had said to him, oh great, I have tickets to the opera. Yes, but he hasn't gotten back to her, so she doesn't know what's going on, so she asked carry, which is kind of wonderful because first of all, I remember that day and I remember going to the opera. I was so excited that I got to go with Carrie because sometimes I don't get to do the walk and talks, you know, I always wanted to do the walking talks. So I'm like, oh, we guys go.
00:36:30
Speaker 1: To the opera. It's even better.
00:36:31
Speaker 2: It's even better than a walk and talk because I mean a scene at the opera is always a great thing in film, right, I mean, yeah, it's a kind of a It's done a lot when you look at things like it's in action films, it's in I've just watched The Morning Show. They had an opera you know scenario in the Morning Show. I know. I think it's because opera's so dramatic, like you wouldn't necessarily show people how to play, though we do do that later on because Schmid is an actor, right, But like the opera is the height of emotion, So I think that's partly why.
00:37:01
Speaker 1: And it's so New York, right, and you're so drap and it's so New York and gorgeous. I realize when you're talking about how Carrie's struggling because Aiden is so not New York. She goes and has the most New York night and exactly with her little tiny, you know, binoculars, she sees Big and Natasha and then she gets up and dramatically leaves.
00:37:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. I Also it's funny because I don't remember Carrie being so dramatic. She's pretty dramatic. It's interesting, it's interesting. I don't really remember that. I think at the time I really felt all Carrie's feelings.
00:37:39
Speaker 1: Oh totally. Well, it's it's part of the discourse even now when people are like that, that was this woman so many of us identified with, and we look back and go like, this is unhinged. But at the time it didn't. It didn't be. And I think there's something really interesting about how just unhinged society was in general when you think about the early aughts and how women were being treated. Oh you know what I mean, I do things were nuts, Sure, nuts. She might seem nuts now, but she really didn't at the time.
00:38:11
Speaker 2: But the other thing is that I think Sarah Jessica as an actor is so grounded. Yes, that when you look, well, if you take a step back and go, oh, she's so dramatic how she leaves the opera, but she makes it so real.
00:38:24
Speaker 1: It's so real, it's so honest. She cannot sit across from them, knowing they're there. And by the way she even says in her voiceover, she says, not to be dramatic. We're in the most dramatic exit or whatever she says.
00:38:40
Speaker 2: She acknowledges that you're absolutely right. She's aware. There's so much self awareness, and we know that because of the voice over and because of the writing, and that's why we can kind of be inside those feelings.
00:38:51
Speaker 1: And I think there was something when it's dawning on me in this moment, you know, Yes, she did such a beautiful job playing Carrie, And I think humanized Cary for us, and I think for any of us who's trying to get over our good girl syndrome, the idea that this woman said I can't be here and listened to her feelings true and took care of herself instead of staying to please her friend and I'm staying to prove she could. And sitting in that seat panicking for the rest of the opera.
00:39:27
Speaker 2: That's true.
00:39:28
Speaker 1: She just said no, I can't do it, and I'm not gonna You're right, that's actually a big deal.
00:39:32
Speaker 2: I agree, And it also goes back to I think the freedom that they all feel with each other, meaning the four of us, Like I can say this crazy thing about I can't hang out with you guys because you're dysfunctional, single people, which is a lot to say, and they're just like, yeah, okay, we get it, you're Charlotte. And then she can say like I've got to leave, and I can just be fine, you know what I'm saying. Like, you know, I do think that that is also a testament to how well they know each other, how much they love each other, and the room they have for each other to be their full selves. Yes, right, which is a beautiful thing and very thankful that they that they did that for us. You know, you guys, this is so much fun that we're going to have to have a part two, so join us later in the week on are You as Charlotte h