Nov. 13, 2025
“I Want To Feel Like A Guy Got Struck By Lightning And Can’t Live Without Me”
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RSS Feed The grand finale of “The Golden Bachelor” may not have ended with an engagement, but it gave us gold in terms of personal and relationship lessons! Spoiler alert on this episode, if you still don’t know how it ends, finish watching before listening. From 60-year-old Cindy who left before the fantasy suite because she doesn’t “need to convince a man to love me” to 62-year-old Peg who went in with zero expectations and ultimately, came out on top, Amy and T.J. talk about if an engagement or marriage is necessary for commitment and just how important it ultimately is for a partner to feel secure.
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00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hey there, folks. It is Thursday, November thirteenth, and a central question in the grand finale of The Golden Bachelor last night was can you truly prove your commitment short of an engagement? Well, we got the answer last night. The thing is, I'm still not exactly sure what it is Robes And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Right. That was central to it the grand finale. We know who Mel picked, but so much more time was spent on the woman he didn't pick and why.
00:00:38
Speaker 2: It was an interesting case in how we fall in love, who we trust, and perhaps even how you handle putting your heart out there at an older age versus a younger age. You know, like, how willing are you to trust? What does time mean to you when you're in your sixties. It's very different than when you're in your twenties or thirties or even forties.
00:01:02
Speaker 1: This was a rope. This is a great, great, great show. I didn't think that the whole season, but when it all comes together with these relationship themes, and I love the idea of throwing people in their older ages second chance. What's on the line? Risk you take everything you just hit on played out last night. If you haven't been watching over the season, what was a good chance A lot of you have not, because this has been a really low rated season. And I think I've seen just about everybody places the blame in one place for why it's been a lowly rated season.
00:01:32
Speaker 2: Yes, everyone is blaming mel Owens because he's such a good, nice guy. He's not controversial, he's not over the top. He's not saying outlandish things or rude things, or even super loving things. He's playing it straight forward. He's being true to himself. He's a Michigander, my god, through and through. I know them well. I come from a long line of them. And that maybe didn't make for exciting, explosive television. I used to seeing.
00:02:05
Speaker 1: Boring, Yes, boring period. Now you I love that. You were so delicate now you put that.
00:02:10
Speaker 2: But sometimes life is boring, you know what I mean, Like I think, but not on television. You don't want to watch it bad it.
00:02:16
Speaker 1: Is, thank you, And I think most people tell you life is pretty exciting. Oh, in one way or another. Sometimes it's bad. But this was a case this guy, and I think, how good and everything you talk about Michigander came through even more so in these final episodes because he did something that a lot of women wish that guys would do. He was honest, yeah, and she didn't like the answer. Yeah.
00:02:39
Speaker 2: You know, he reminds me a lot of my dad, maybe that I'm I feel like I know him because he is that that guy that every girl wants, and yet you can't make him or force him to feel, or do or say what you want them to. And I think that is what we saw from one of the final to Women six, Cindy. She's sixty years old and she wanted him to she said, not be able to live without her. And I remember I looked at you when she said that I want somebody who can't live without me, and I thought that was interesting. That sounds like something someone would say in their twenties, and even now, as a woman in her fifties, I can honestly say to you, I want you to be able to live without me. I want you to choose me. I want you to want to spend your life with me. But I don't need you to want to live to not be able to live without me. That seems far fetched.
00:03:33
Speaker 1: That's year's life learning experience. Yes, but in defense of women. And we've heard some things she said, and there was a live audience. They were women were applauding.
00:03:45
Speaker 2: She got standing ovations multiple times.
00:03:47
Speaker 1: Some of the things she was saying, you find, and I find other people would say that is unhealthy. You shouldn't need anybody for your happiness. You should need to provide it to anybody else. And she at times, and some of the things she was saying include that one in particular makes you sit up and stop. And I said to you, that is the thing that's probably that scares the hell out of guys.
00:04:09
Speaker 2: And it scares the hell out of me. Having look, we've lived enough life. But I've talked about this before. It's this fairy tale that a lot of us women are sold. From the moment we can consume any kind of media, we're told our Prince Charming is out there. And yes, the narratives are starting to shift with Disney movies, et cetera. But it also feels very forced, like, oh, yeah, my true love is my sister or my true love is myself. Okay, I get that, but the reality is most of us are told that our prince is waiting for us, and He's gonna save us from all of our problems, and it seemed like Cindy was suffering from that and then being applauded by and supported by other women who also believe in that. She made a lot of lines that contribute to that narrative. I don't need I don't need to convince a man to love me. I'm not interested in being put on hold. She was so invested in the outcome, and I get that that she missed the journey. Dare I say the journey, But that's a word used a lot on these shows, and on this one in particular. But she wasn't interested in the process or in the development. She wanted the happy ending immediately.
00:05:20
Speaker 1: Okay, So I have to at least in her defense or excuse me, at least a part of the conversation, and it was a part of the finale as well, was about the outcome. Where you come onto the show, she kept arguing understanding what the outcome is supposed to be. She made the argument that all twenty three of these women that came here, mel you left them with the impression just by coming on the show that there was an engagement at the end, and.
00:05:46
Speaker 2: You know, what And I think, yes, that has been the case in some of the circumstances, and a lot of the audience is hoping and waiting for that. But he was there to find someone. He was there to find a partner. And I believe that he just said I can't tell you that I'm here to propose, and that offended her argument.
00:06:05
Speaker 1: Yes, but should he have understood that these twenty three women expect that and he needs to deliver it, because that was the impression she gave, or at least the argument, like you brought us here, she had one point set that like all of us here, she did, I have an expectation of an engagement at the end. The woman he picked sure didn't. But ultimately, but this woman did. Is that a fair argument that mel It wasn't okay for you to tell me that maybe there's not an engagement.
00:06:34
Speaker 2: I think it's totally fair. I mean, come on, she's not a show, yes, but this is still life. We're talking about real life. This might be a TV show, but life continues after the show. And I thought he was actually really smart. It wasn't as if he just said, oh, I'm not going to end up with anybody I'm doing this. Do you really think that mel was doing it for publicity or doing it to make a name for himself or to get some extra cash on the side. I do believe he was there to find a partner, and I actually think it's more valuable and more genuine for him to say, uh that he was looking for a partner and that could lead to an engagement and a wife. But it didn't necessarily mean it had to happen in that moment, on that day.
00:07:14
Speaker 1: The other issue with it possibly uh In. I don't know whose favorites this is in, but the timing we taught timing two things having to do with age and having to do with how much time they got to spend together on this show, it is unreasonable to start dating somebody and to think in four months you need to propose in real life that's on that's unreasonable now.
00:07:37
Speaker 2: And yes, and if that person is dating twenty three other people in the beginning of it, that also waters down the time you have to get to know someone.
00:07:45
Speaker 1: But again that worked against them. But is that the absurdity of possibly a show like this maybe should take that out of hell. Even Jesse was a former bachelor, he didn't propose what it means to me? The first one that yes, okay, so it happens, but I have never seen I haven't watched the show enough. Like someone's so upset that you, while you're still considering another woman, won't sit here and tell me that you are going to be willing to get engaged to me, is her argument. Look, if that's where she is, we have to respect it. I just I can't fault Mel for being practical.
00:08:26
Speaker 2: Neither can I. And look, Cindy seems I mean, she's obviously an very intelligent woman. She's a mother of three, She's gone through a lot, she's a biomedical she was a biomedical engineer. Yes, but what I thought was sad on her end. And look, look I get it. These are real feelings, and I think that is what this show, in this episode certainly proved this season. She was hurt, she wanted him to be all about her, and I do think that was unreasonable going for her. She pointed that Mel was unreasonable for maybe not automatically saying I'm going to propose to someone at the end, I think she was unreasonable to believe that she should have been held up on a pedestal higher than all the other women. She wanted to have the lightning bolt. She wanted to have him say I'll do anything, You're the one, and that's not what the show's about. And even if he did feel that way, the show would never want him to say that while there are still two people in Antigua, where there are still two women, and she wanted confirmation, she wanted validation, and he couldn't give it to her, and so instead of and he pointed this out in the live reunion, which was an awkward, awkward moment on the show, but he made a really good point, we never got to go to the fantasy suite. And she kind of was like, well, you didn't earn the right to, but he said, no, this wasn't about being intimate with you, This wasn't about having sex. This was an opportunity to talk without the microphone, without the cameras, and you denied us that opportunity because on.
00:09:59
Speaker 1: Camera you wouldn't do what I told you you needed to do. Now I have seen you, we don't know this show. She's been pleasant throughout Ashley from the very beginning. I said, that's my girl. Yeah, I said, that's the one he's going to end up with. You did think that that's the one? So she all these are pleasant, accomplished folks. It seems that she did. And he makes the point, look, things work out, but she missed, and he said, you didn't see the process through. We don't know what would have happened if we were in private and for the first time and all of the show could sit and look at each other without anybody talking to us or a camera in our face and nothing going on. You know, but how are we supposed to get married or engaged if you and I have only spent a couple of dates together and then the one chance we get to finally be alone, one on one with nothing around you say?
00:10:49
Speaker 2: Nah, And you know what, I'm not trying to blame her at all, because this has got to be a really tough position to be in. But don't you think that's ego? She felt rejected. She didn't get the confirmation, the affirmation, the validation that I understand she wanted, but also she needed to understand the show she was on. And when he said we had to finish the journey, but we never got there, there was another person and she wasn't being I don't think she was giving him enough rope to be able to experience both and to make a choice. He said, you wanted a proposal, and you and because I wouldn't commit to doing that in that moment, you refuse to go to the fantasy suite. And again, it wasn't about sex, it was about conversation. It was about being able to be private. And when she you know what she said back to him, I learned enough. That's ego because then she'll say, I still I loved you. We could have been great, we could have been amazing. We could have and she still believes that. But she didn't give him the opportunity to have private conversation with her.
00:11:55
Speaker 1: And we have to respect her for a decision, for what she did, decided to do, for why she did it, and everything else. I was fully prepared in watching the finale to be upset with something male did. I'm like, wn he did this girl wrong? Or how it went down when they let it all play out and you hear it.
00:12:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, she needed something he couldn't give her.
00:12:20
Speaker 1: Yes, And it seemed like we didn't. She didn't take into consideration the criteria, like the circumstances we're on the show. This is this is different. It's okay. It's possible she couldn't handle the idea of the next day that roe Ceram or whatever might have happened and gotten embarrassed. Who knows, or she just might know her heart. She knows herself and that's a wrap.
00:12:44
Speaker 2: Yes, and there are and look, everyone has different needs. She needs somebody to be all about her and that's fine. I get that. That's wonderful and that's what she is now going to have to go try and find.
00:12:56
Speaker 1: But isn't that what any woman, and certainly the ones in that room clapping and applauding these lines want you want the guy? What was her line about lightning strike or something?
00:13:08
Speaker 2: She said? I got it exactly.
00:13:12
Speaker 1: I want to feel like a guy got struck by lightning and can't live without me. That's what's wrong with wanting that. Nothing everybody's personal preference. It's not for me, and I don't want to be with somebody who thinks that, but for others who want that, And you hit every why not robes? Now you and I go back and forth about this. Why shouldn't we hold onto the fantasy?
00:13:33
Speaker 2: Why shouldn't we Because it's not reality, and it ends up. If you have expectations that are that high, yes, no relationship will ever meet those standards, and you will always be disappointed. And I will say I young, as a young woman, I did believe that, and now as a more mature, experienced woman, I now know. And this is gonna sound so cheesy, Oh, push through it. You have to be your biggest advocate and your own champion, and you have to love yourself the most, and then there is space to love someone else. And you don't have to require some unfair amount of love that you need someone to give you. In fact, you can and I'm not saying to be treated badly, but when you place all of your expectations of joy, happiness, love, contentment piece on someone else, you are always going to be disappointed.
00:14:29
Speaker 1: All right, we'll stay with us, folks. When we come back, we'll get into who he actually picked and why we think she might be the perfect pick for him. Also, we'll get into the back and forth. Did we see really a difference in personalities between mel and Cindy or is this more of the same man versus woman? And we'll give Robock to finally answer this question. Can you prove a commitment short of an engagement ring. Hey that folks, I promise you, Robock. And I was still going at it about this story during that short break there, yes talking about mel Mel has picked his woman on The Golden Bachelor last night, the big finale. He picked Peg, the firefighter, former firefighter and bomb expert who from the jump robes. I you know what, I said, Cindy, that's the one for him. You liked Peg? I did, and my response was he can't handle her.
00:15:33
Speaker 2: But you know what, maybe that's exactly what he needs. And I from the moment she walked onto this show, there was an energy, there was a confidence. This is a woman who's been through stuff just like all the other women, but she has found a way to love herself. She walks with confidence, she walks like a badass and she embodies that. And yes, she wasn't the one saying I love you, pick me. She said, I'm not sure that I love you, but I like you. Let's see where this goes. She had a spirit that was just full of life and without expectations. And wow, I felt like we could all seriously as women and we all have our own moments, but I felt like, well, I want to be like her. I want to be her, I want.
00:16:20
Speaker 1: To make I don't know how it's coming off, but we sounded like we liked her. We didn't like her for this reason or that read the two every one we said this from the very beginning. This was the women were carrying this show.
00:16:30
Speaker 2: They were awesome.
00:16:31
Speaker 1: They were all awesome, all impressive. That was a seventy seven year old woman that walked out there badass with that dress on. Do you think girl?
00:16:37
Speaker 2: It's you know what? It was a reminder to me as I'm getting older, like, look, we all want to look younger and feel younger. That's a thing. I get it, and you want to hold on to the beauty of your youth. But the people and the women who I fell in love with the most, it didn't matter what they looked like. It didn't matter if they had hair extensions or whatever work they had done. It was their spirit, it was their energy, it was their confidence. It's just a reminder that is the beauty of us getting older, what we can bring with us, and it's less about looks and more about who you are. I really saw that play out watching this show, and that's why I really.
00:17:18
Speaker 1: Do think there's such value in these shows, more so than I mean, some of the stuff is just entertaining. When you talk about love islands, all of them broke up, sure that afternoon, but.
00:17:28
Speaker 2: You still learn about dynamics, ego and relationships.
00:17:32
Speaker 1: So it's all the same and it plays out here, and I love that it played out with that extra element of age. What do you do? Do you have time to feel it out, to figure it out, to make sure this is going to work? Or do we do as Cindy said, you gotta jump in? What leap of faith?
00:17:51
Speaker 2: Yes, leap of faith?
00:17:52
Speaker 1: He wasn't willing to do that, and she thought we should just take a lip of faith and get engaged. Okay, but where do you fall on that. You're twenty five, you're in a relationship for five years, don't go well, thirty still hot, gon't be okay? But when you're sixty, sixty two, sixty five, like, wow, I need you to commit and tell me right now after four months? I think that's real, is it not? I mean, this is a smaller timeframe, but in the real world, don't you hold on thought? Do we know a lot of couples older couples like e hain't let me stick with this asshole here because I can't. Ain't nobody else out there for right?
00:18:30
Speaker 2: Yes, without a doubt, that is that. That is absolutely a huge factor in people getting together and staying together, maybe when if they just gave it a beat, they wouldn't. And I do think there's nothing more lonely than being in a bad relationship. I'd rather be alone.
00:18:49
Speaker 1: You say that, I think some people would definitely disagree with you. I would rather have something. Somebody not being alone is debilitated.
00:18:58
Speaker 2: That's scary as hell to me. I'm not going to pretend that I do not fear that. Absolutely. I think that is a fear within us all on some level. Maybe I don't know, do you have that fear. I don't think I'm.
00:19:09
Speaker 1: Afraid people will be around all the time exactly. You are an anomaly, but relationship wise, nobody wants you want somebody.
00:19:21
Speaker 2: Yes, I hate eating alone. I've never been to a movie alone. So yes, I fully understand that. I also know how lonely it is to be in a relationship that you don't want to be in.
00:19:33
Speaker 1: Well, this last thing here I mentioned here man versus woman or was this male versus Cindy personality wise, he's they used it. I think he was the one that said it a matter of like, you're no. She might have said it, You're practical. You're being practical about these things and I'm making a more emotional decision. You and I talk about this in everything we do every day. This comes up practical versus emotional. Practical versus emotional is I didn't see as soon as as they say that, I said, oh, sweetheart, I'm ready to go. This is early in the show, which was an hour and a half, Yes, like twenty minutes in, I said, I'm done. We can do the podcast. I got all I need. That jumped out at me because that is something that plays out all the time in relationship. It does.
00:20:16
Speaker 2: And even his best friend Diane. This is Mel's best friend, Diane, who met PEG. After she met her, she went to Mel. She's a lawyer. Mel's a lawyer. I didn't realize this, so they're very analytical, and she said, don't let your brain get in the way of your heart. She told him that that was her advice to him. And I do think that, yes, if you really think about how risky it is to get into a relationship with somebody, how risky it is to propose or get married to somebody. You're right, it is, so you do kind of at some point have to just follow your heart. If you let your brain do all the work, you'll never you'll never commit to anyone because you're right, you might get hurt, your ego might be shattered, and that is always on the line. Always. You don't ever truly know someone, And certainly when you've been doing it on television, what is that trust level? Like, it's hard enough in the real world, let alone when someone might be just doing something for the camera.
00:21:21
Speaker 1: And these people don't know each other, it's impossible to know each other. After a few months, you can try your best, but it takes so much.
00:21:27
Speaker 2: I love what Peg and Mel said to each other in the live when they were reunited, And I have to tell you, I don't think I'm being hoodwinked here. They looked absolutely magical together, like happy, and it all worked out the way it was supposed to. But she had zero expectations, and I thought that was so cool because that just allowed for the relationship to develop as it should in whatever way it was going to. And he told her this. I trusted you, and you trusted me. You told me that you knew I would make the right decision. How cool is that? I mean, that takes a lot of confidence. She knew there was another woman, and she still was able to say that, like she knew she was gonna be okay either way. Put your heart out there to an extent, but just let it be and don't force it. You can't force someone. If you try to force someone to pros to you, I don't think it's ever gonna work.
00:22:21
Speaker 1: She understood the show, she understood the assignment, and she understands herself better than anybody. She is going to be okay, you pick me or you don't. I have no control over that. I am just PEG. Go back and watch the season and watch PEG from episode one to the finale, and you'll see a different type of person whose joy came from somewhere within that had nothing to do with everything going around and when you let.
00:22:48
Speaker 2: Go cause look and again, I thought that Cindy was a beautiful, wonderful person.
00:22:54
Speaker 1: He's my favorite.
00:22:56
Speaker 2: But I have to say when it's such a lesson, if you can just let go of trying to control everything, if you can. It's so hard to do and trust. As Gabby Bernstein says, the universe has your back. Things start to fall into place when you try to control things, and she, by leaving controlled the outcome.
00:23:17
Speaker 1: Not to control an outcome the other person didn't, and look at where it ended up. The last thing I wanted to make sure, I asked here, I want if people can hear that boat out.
00:23:26
Speaker 2: Back going by the very loud voat Yeah.
00:23:29
Speaker 1: Sorry, we were recording here in our studio at home, and there's a river right outside of the window, and apparently the biggest boat ever is going by right now. But the last question I said, I don't want to ask you, can you prove a commitment to a woman short of an engagement.
00:23:43
Speaker 2: That's a really good question, and I think it depends on the woman. I think yes, the answer is absolutely yes. How by what you say, how you act, what you do. I mean that a woman feels what what Cindy wasn't getting from Mel And this is because of the cameras in the show itself. Some reassurance, you need verbal reassurance, you need physical reassurance, and I think you need consistency. But yes, the trust at some point you do have to just put your trust in someone else. But I do think it's by showing up every day. It's by consistency, it's by being in that person's life every day. It's about how you.
00:24:29
Speaker 1: Act practical things because I hear what you're saying, and no one and I think include being you would accept those things. Right. Wow, shows up every day, He's very engaged, says he loves me, do all the right things. But he still lives there. I still live here. We still don't know this person in his life while you talk about things. Somebody can give you every bit of love, but there is something or some signal that still oftentimes people look for to think okay, not engage. No, he's okay with me.
00:25:01
Speaker 2: I have it for you. So I really do think that I said this to you because we struggled with this a little for a while. I mean, we were together for just about three years before you proposed. But I will say this, I wanted an hour's. I didn't want a mine and a yours. And for me, the commitment was having an hours and having our life together and merging our lives together. I preferred to be married and to have an engagement. But if you didn't and we had this conversation, I was okay with that, but I wanted us to live together. I wanted us to be together. We didn't have to have the even though I will fully say here, I prefer it, even though we don't have to have the legal document that says X, Y and Z, and it's harder for you to leave because then you'd have to get a divorce. I don't want anyone to be with me who feels like they have to for money or legal reasons. But I do think that making the commitment to merger lives together is what it it that was what I needed. I can't speak for all of them.
00:26:04
Speaker 1: So you said merging lives. Can you merge lives short of living together?
00:26:11
Speaker 2: No, because you still have one foot out the door for me. No.
00:26:14
Speaker 1: When you break this down to what we're talking about now, the only way you can show commitment live together. Give me a ring for me?
00:26:22
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:26:22
Speaker 1: What do you think it is for most women?
00:26:24
Speaker 2: Yes? I think it's the same because because I feel like if you're keeping your options open by keeping your own place, you've got one foot out the door.
00:26:31
Speaker 1: You're not fully in.
00:26:33
Speaker 2: You're not fully in.
00:26:34
Speaker 1: Okay, folks, we might have to do a part too, because you just said something, Now, how is a foot out the door?
00:26:40
Speaker 2: You got one foot in one door and one foot in another door. It feels like that.
00:26:45
Speaker 1: Oh man, Okay, folks, we do encourage you. Go back. If you haven't seen, here we go again promoting an ABC show. But if you haven't seen Golden Bachelor, we encourage it because we do believe it. There are great lessons in there for all of us. Whether it has to do is relationships, how to treat others, how to view others, what you should recognize in others, and frankly just being happy with yourself. And particularly take a look at Peg and Cindy from the very first to the end. Now that you know the outcome, I like watching.
00:27:17
Speaker 2: It is kind of cool once you already know. And I and also just want to say this, I actually loved the ending. It wasn't a proposal, it was a promise ring And then a few months later because they always have to keep it secret while they're putting the show together and having an air but when we saw them together for the first time, when they announced, when we all knew that they were together or an item, he said, I'm in love with her, and then she said, and I'm in love with him one hundred percent. And I love what Jesse Palmer said at the end the host it worked. He almost sounded surprise.
00:27:47
Speaker 1: Jesse was shocked and Jesse, we're gonna call you too, man.
00:27:50
Speaker 2: We have a We love Jesse, we love us, We miss Jesse.
00:27:53
Speaker 1: We miss Jesse. Well. Georgia game was the last time we talked to him this season. But we yeah, we're gonna We're gonna talk to Jesse about We take issue with some of the tones. Sometimes during during the episodes, we'll be hollering at you, Jesse, but folks, we always appreciate you listening to us. We do encourage you to go back and watch it. But it's been It was fascinating. We might have to do a part two robes and you said something that fired me up, So all right, stay tuned.
Speaker 1: Hey there, folks. It is Thursday, November thirteenth, and a central question in the grand finale of The Golden Bachelor last night was can you truly prove your commitment short of an engagement? Well, we got the answer last night. The thing is, I'm still not exactly sure what it is Robes And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Right. That was central to it the grand finale. We know who Mel picked, but so much more time was spent on the woman he didn't pick and why.
00:00:38
Speaker 2: It was an interesting case in how we fall in love, who we trust, and perhaps even how you handle putting your heart out there at an older age versus a younger age. You know, like, how willing are you to trust? What does time mean to you when you're in your sixties. It's very different than when you're in your twenties or thirties or even forties.
00:01:02
Speaker 1: This was a rope. This is a great, great, great show. I didn't think that the whole season, but when it all comes together with these relationship themes, and I love the idea of throwing people in their older ages second chance. What's on the line? Risk you take everything you just hit on played out last night. If you haven't been watching over the season, what was a good chance A lot of you have not, because this has been a really low rated season. And I think I've seen just about everybody places the blame in one place for why it's been a lowly rated season.
00:01:32
Speaker 2: Yes, everyone is blaming mel Owens because he's such a good, nice guy. He's not controversial, he's not over the top. He's not saying outlandish things or rude things, or even super loving things. He's playing it straight forward. He's being true to himself. He's a Michigander, my god, through and through. I know them well. I come from a long line of them. And that maybe didn't make for exciting, explosive television. I used to seeing.
00:02:05
Speaker 1: Boring, Yes, boring period. Now you I love that. You were so delicate now you put that.
00:02:10
Speaker 2: But sometimes life is boring, you know what I mean, Like I think, but not on television. You don't want to watch it bad it.
00:02:16
Speaker 1: Is, thank you, And I think most people tell you life is pretty exciting. Oh, in one way or another. Sometimes it's bad. But this was a case this guy, and I think, how good and everything you talk about Michigander came through even more so in these final episodes because he did something that a lot of women wish that guys would do. He was honest, yeah, and she didn't like the answer. Yeah.
00:02:39
Speaker 2: You know, he reminds me a lot of my dad, maybe that I'm I feel like I know him because he is that that guy that every girl wants, and yet you can't make him or force him to feel, or do or say what you want them to. And I think that is what we saw from one of the final to Women six, Cindy. She's sixty years old and she wanted him to she said, not be able to live without her. And I remember I looked at you when she said that I want somebody who can't live without me, and I thought that was interesting. That sounds like something someone would say in their twenties, and even now, as a woman in her fifties, I can honestly say to you, I want you to be able to live without me. I want you to choose me. I want you to want to spend your life with me. But I don't need you to want to live to not be able to live without me. That seems far fetched.
00:03:33
Speaker 1: That's year's life learning experience. Yes, but in defense of women. And we've heard some things she said, and there was a live audience. They were women were applauding.
00:03:45
Speaker 2: She got standing ovations multiple times.
00:03:47
Speaker 1: Some of the things she was saying, you find, and I find other people would say that is unhealthy. You shouldn't need anybody for your happiness. You should need to provide it to anybody else. And she at times, and some of the things she was saying include that one in particular makes you sit up and stop. And I said to you, that is the thing that's probably that scares the hell out of guys.
00:04:09
Speaker 2: And it scares the hell out of me. Having look, we've lived enough life. But I've talked about this before. It's this fairy tale that a lot of us women are sold. From the moment we can consume any kind of media, we're told our Prince Charming is out there. And yes, the narratives are starting to shift with Disney movies, et cetera. But it also feels very forced, like, oh, yeah, my true love is my sister or my true love is myself. Okay, I get that, but the reality is most of us are told that our prince is waiting for us, and He's gonna save us from all of our problems, and it seemed like Cindy was suffering from that and then being applauded by and supported by other women who also believe in that. She made a lot of lines that contribute to that narrative. I don't need I don't need to convince a man to love me. I'm not interested in being put on hold. She was so invested in the outcome, and I get that that she missed the journey. Dare I say the journey, But that's a word used a lot on these shows, and on this one in particular. But she wasn't interested in the process or in the development. She wanted the happy ending immediately.
00:05:20
Speaker 1: Okay, So I have to at least in her defense or excuse me, at least a part of the conversation, and it was a part of the finale as well, was about the outcome. Where you come onto the show, she kept arguing understanding what the outcome is supposed to be. She made the argument that all twenty three of these women that came here, mel you left them with the impression just by coming on the show that there was an engagement at the end, and.
00:05:46
Speaker 2: You know, what And I think, yes, that has been the case in some of the circumstances, and a lot of the audience is hoping and waiting for that. But he was there to find someone. He was there to find a partner. And I believe that he just said I can't tell you that I'm here to propose, and that offended her argument.
00:06:05
Speaker 1: Yes, but should he have understood that these twenty three women expect that and he needs to deliver it, because that was the impression she gave, or at least the argument, like you brought us here, she had one point set that like all of us here, she did, I have an expectation of an engagement at the end. The woman he picked sure didn't. But ultimately, but this woman did. Is that a fair argument that mel It wasn't okay for you to tell me that maybe there's not an engagement.
00:06:34
Speaker 2: I think it's totally fair. I mean, come on, she's not a show, yes, but this is still life. We're talking about real life. This might be a TV show, but life continues after the show. And I thought he was actually really smart. It wasn't as if he just said, oh, I'm not going to end up with anybody I'm doing this. Do you really think that mel was doing it for publicity or doing it to make a name for himself or to get some extra cash on the side. I do believe he was there to find a partner, and I actually think it's more valuable and more genuine for him to say, uh that he was looking for a partner and that could lead to an engagement and a wife. But it didn't necessarily mean it had to happen in that moment, on that day.
00:07:14
Speaker 1: The other issue with it possibly uh In. I don't know whose favorites this is in, but the timing we taught timing two things having to do with age and having to do with how much time they got to spend together on this show, it is unreasonable to start dating somebody and to think in four months you need to propose in real life that's on that's unreasonable now.
00:07:37
Speaker 2: And yes, and if that person is dating twenty three other people in the beginning of it, that also waters down the time you have to get to know someone.
00:07:45
Speaker 1: But again that worked against them. But is that the absurdity of possibly a show like this maybe should take that out of hell. Even Jesse was a former bachelor, he didn't propose what it means to me? The first one that yes, okay, so it happens, but I have never seen I haven't watched the show enough. Like someone's so upset that you, while you're still considering another woman, won't sit here and tell me that you are going to be willing to get engaged to me, is her argument. Look, if that's where she is, we have to respect it. I just I can't fault Mel for being practical.
00:08:26
Speaker 2: Neither can I. And look, Cindy seems I mean, she's obviously an very intelligent woman. She's a mother of three, She's gone through a lot, she's a biomedical she was a biomedical engineer. Yes, but what I thought was sad on her end. And look, look I get it. These are real feelings, and I think that is what this show, in this episode certainly proved this season. She was hurt, she wanted him to be all about her, and I do think that was unreasonable going for her. She pointed that Mel was unreasonable for maybe not automatically saying I'm going to propose to someone at the end, I think she was unreasonable to believe that she should have been held up on a pedestal higher than all the other women. She wanted to have the lightning bolt. She wanted to have him say I'll do anything, You're the one, and that's not what the show's about. And even if he did feel that way, the show would never want him to say that while there are still two people in Antigua, where there are still two women, and she wanted confirmation, she wanted validation, and he couldn't give it to her, and so instead of and he pointed this out in the live reunion, which was an awkward, awkward moment on the show, but he made a really good point, we never got to go to the fantasy suite. And she kind of was like, well, you didn't earn the right to, but he said, no, this wasn't about being intimate with you, This wasn't about having sex. This was an opportunity to talk without the microphone, without the cameras, and you denied us that opportunity because on.
00:09:59
Speaker 1: Camera you wouldn't do what I told you you needed to do. Now I have seen you, we don't know this show. She's been pleasant throughout Ashley from the very beginning. I said, that's my girl. Yeah, I said, that's the one he's going to end up with. You did think that that's the one? So she all these are pleasant, accomplished folks. It seems that she did. And he makes the point, look, things work out, but she missed, and he said, you didn't see the process through. We don't know what would have happened if we were in private and for the first time and all of the show could sit and look at each other without anybody talking to us or a camera in our face and nothing going on. You know, but how are we supposed to get married or engaged if you and I have only spent a couple of dates together and then the one chance we get to finally be alone, one on one with nothing around you say?
00:10:49
Speaker 2: Nah, And you know what, I'm not trying to blame her at all, because this has got to be a really tough position to be in. But don't you think that's ego? She felt rejected. She didn't get the confirmation, the affirmation, the validation that I understand she wanted, but also she needed to understand the show she was on. And when he said we had to finish the journey, but we never got there, there was another person and she wasn't being I don't think she was giving him enough rope to be able to experience both and to make a choice. He said, you wanted a proposal, and you and because I wouldn't commit to doing that in that moment, you refuse to go to the fantasy suite. And again, it wasn't about sex, it was about conversation. It was about being able to be private. And when she you know what she said back to him, I learned enough. That's ego because then she'll say, I still I loved you. We could have been great, we could have been amazing. We could have and she still believes that. But she didn't give him the opportunity to have private conversation with her.
00:11:55
Speaker 1: And we have to respect her for a decision, for what she did, decided to do, for why she did it, and everything else. I was fully prepared in watching the finale to be upset with something male did. I'm like, wn he did this girl wrong? Or how it went down when they let it all play out and you hear it.
00:12:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, she needed something he couldn't give her.
00:12:20
Speaker 1: Yes, And it seemed like we didn't. She didn't take into consideration the criteria, like the circumstances we're on the show. This is this is different. It's okay. It's possible she couldn't handle the idea of the next day that roe Ceram or whatever might have happened and gotten embarrassed. Who knows, or she just might know her heart. She knows herself and that's a wrap.
00:12:44
Speaker 2: Yes, and there are and look, everyone has different needs. She needs somebody to be all about her and that's fine. I get that. That's wonderful and that's what she is now going to have to go try and find.
00:12:56
Speaker 1: But isn't that what any woman, and certainly the ones in that room clapping and applauding these lines want you want the guy? What was her line about lightning strike or something?
00:13:08
Speaker 2: She said? I got it exactly.
00:13:12
Speaker 1: I want to feel like a guy got struck by lightning and can't live without me. That's what's wrong with wanting that. Nothing everybody's personal preference. It's not for me, and I don't want to be with somebody who thinks that, but for others who want that, And you hit every why not robes? Now you and I go back and forth about this. Why shouldn't we hold onto the fantasy?
00:13:33
Speaker 2: Why shouldn't we Because it's not reality, and it ends up. If you have expectations that are that high, yes, no relationship will ever meet those standards, and you will always be disappointed. And I will say I young, as a young woman, I did believe that, and now as a more mature, experienced woman, I now know. And this is gonna sound so cheesy, Oh, push through it. You have to be your biggest advocate and your own champion, and you have to love yourself the most, and then there is space to love someone else. And you don't have to require some unfair amount of love that you need someone to give you. In fact, you can and I'm not saying to be treated badly, but when you place all of your expectations of joy, happiness, love, contentment piece on someone else, you are always going to be disappointed.
00:14:29
Speaker 1: All right, we'll stay with us, folks. When we come back, we'll get into who he actually picked and why we think she might be the perfect pick for him. Also, we'll get into the back and forth. Did we see really a difference in personalities between mel and Cindy or is this more of the same man versus woman? And we'll give Robock to finally answer this question. Can you prove a commitment short of an engagement ring. Hey that folks, I promise you, Robock. And I was still going at it about this story during that short break there, yes talking about mel Mel has picked his woman on The Golden Bachelor last night, the big finale. He picked Peg, the firefighter, former firefighter and bomb expert who from the jump robes. I you know what, I said, Cindy, that's the one for him. You liked Peg? I did, and my response was he can't handle her.
00:15:33
Speaker 2: But you know what, maybe that's exactly what he needs. And I from the moment she walked onto this show, there was an energy, there was a confidence. This is a woman who's been through stuff just like all the other women, but she has found a way to love herself. She walks with confidence, she walks like a badass and she embodies that. And yes, she wasn't the one saying I love you, pick me. She said, I'm not sure that I love you, but I like you. Let's see where this goes. She had a spirit that was just full of life and without expectations. And wow, I felt like we could all seriously as women and we all have our own moments, but I felt like, well, I want to be like her. I want to be her, I want.
00:16:20
Speaker 1: To make I don't know how it's coming off, but we sounded like we liked her. We didn't like her for this reason or that read the two every one we said this from the very beginning. This was the women were carrying this show.
00:16:30
Speaker 2: They were awesome.
00:16:31
Speaker 1: They were all awesome, all impressive. That was a seventy seven year old woman that walked out there badass with that dress on. Do you think girl?
00:16:37
Speaker 2: It's you know what? It was a reminder to me as I'm getting older, like, look, we all want to look younger and feel younger. That's a thing. I get it, and you want to hold on to the beauty of your youth. But the people and the women who I fell in love with the most, it didn't matter what they looked like. It didn't matter if they had hair extensions or whatever work they had done. It was their spirit, it was their energy, it was their confidence. It's just a reminder that is the beauty of us getting older, what we can bring with us, and it's less about looks and more about who you are. I really saw that play out watching this show, and that's why I really.
00:17:18
Speaker 1: Do think there's such value in these shows, more so than I mean, some of the stuff is just entertaining. When you talk about love islands, all of them broke up, sure that afternoon, but.
00:17:28
Speaker 2: You still learn about dynamics, ego and relationships.
00:17:32
Speaker 1: So it's all the same and it plays out here, and I love that it played out with that extra element of age. What do you do? Do you have time to feel it out, to figure it out, to make sure this is going to work? Or do we do as Cindy said, you gotta jump in? What leap of faith?
00:17:51
Speaker 2: Yes, leap of faith?
00:17:52
Speaker 1: He wasn't willing to do that, and she thought we should just take a lip of faith and get engaged. Okay, but where do you fall on that. You're twenty five, you're in a relationship for five years, don't go well, thirty still hot, gon't be okay? But when you're sixty, sixty two, sixty five, like, wow, I need you to commit and tell me right now after four months? I think that's real, is it not? I mean, this is a smaller timeframe, but in the real world, don't you hold on thought? Do we know a lot of couples older couples like e hain't let me stick with this asshole here because I can't. Ain't nobody else out there for right?
00:18:30
Speaker 2: Yes, without a doubt, that is that. That is absolutely a huge factor in people getting together and staying together, maybe when if they just gave it a beat, they wouldn't. And I do think there's nothing more lonely than being in a bad relationship. I'd rather be alone.
00:18:49
Speaker 1: You say that, I think some people would definitely disagree with you. I would rather have something. Somebody not being alone is debilitated.
00:18:58
Speaker 2: That's scary as hell to me. I'm not going to pretend that I do not fear that. Absolutely. I think that is a fear within us all on some level. Maybe I don't know, do you have that fear. I don't think I'm.
00:19:09
Speaker 1: Afraid people will be around all the time exactly. You are an anomaly, but relationship wise, nobody wants you want somebody.
00:19:21
Speaker 2: Yes, I hate eating alone. I've never been to a movie alone. So yes, I fully understand that. I also know how lonely it is to be in a relationship that you don't want to be in.
00:19:33
Speaker 1: Well, this last thing here I mentioned here man versus woman or was this male versus Cindy personality wise, he's they used it. I think he was the one that said it a matter of like, you're no. She might have said it, You're practical. You're being practical about these things and I'm making a more emotional decision. You and I talk about this in everything we do every day. This comes up practical versus emotional. Practical versus emotional is I didn't see as soon as as they say that, I said, oh, sweetheart, I'm ready to go. This is early in the show, which was an hour and a half, Yes, like twenty minutes in, I said, I'm done. We can do the podcast. I got all I need. That jumped out at me because that is something that plays out all the time in relationship. It does.
00:20:16
Speaker 2: And even his best friend Diane. This is Mel's best friend, Diane, who met PEG. After she met her, she went to Mel. She's a lawyer. Mel's a lawyer. I didn't realize this, so they're very analytical, and she said, don't let your brain get in the way of your heart. She told him that that was her advice to him. And I do think that, yes, if you really think about how risky it is to get into a relationship with somebody, how risky it is to propose or get married to somebody. You're right, it is, so you do kind of at some point have to just follow your heart. If you let your brain do all the work, you'll never you'll never commit to anyone because you're right, you might get hurt, your ego might be shattered, and that is always on the line. Always. You don't ever truly know someone, And certainly when you've been doing it on television, what is that trust level? Like, it's hard enough in the real world, let alone when someone might be just doing something for the camera.
00:21:21
Speaker 1: And these people don't know each other, it's impossible to know each other. After a few months, you can try your best, but it takes so much.
00:21:27
Speaker 2: I love what Peg and Mel said to each other in the live when they were reunited, And I have to tell you, I don't think I'm being hoodwinked here. They looked absolutely magical together, like happy, and it all worked out the way it was supposed to. But she had zero expectations, and I thought that was so cool because that just allowed for the relationship to develop as it should in whatever way it was going to. And he told her this. I trusted you, and you trusted me. You told me that you knew I would make the right decision. How cool is that? I mean, that takes a lot of confidence. She knew there was another woman, and she still was able to say that, like she knew she was gonna be okay either way. Put your heart out there to an extent, but just let it be and don't force it. You can't force someone. If you try to force someone to pros to you, I don't think it's ever gonna work.
00:22:21
Speaker 1: She understood the show, she understood the assignment, and she understands herself better than anybody. She is going to be okay, you pick me or you don't. I have no control over that. I am just PEG. Go back and watch the season and watch PEG from episode one to the finale, and you'll see a different type of person whose joy came from somewhere within that had nothing to do with everything going around and when you let.
00:22:48
Speaker 2: Go cause look and again, I thought that Cindy was a beautiful, wonderful person.
00:22:54
Speaker 1: He's my favorite.
00:22:56
Speaker 2: But I have to say when it's such a lesson, if you can just let go of trying to control everything, if you can. It's so hard to do and trust. As Gabby Bernstein says, the universe has your back. Things start to fall into place when you try to control things, and she, by leaving controlled the outcome.
00:23:17
Speaker 1: Not to control an outcome the other person didn't, and look at where it ended up. The last thing I wanted to make sure, I asked here, I want if people can hear that boat out.
00:23:26
Speaker 2: Back going by the very loud voat Yeah.
00:23:29
Speaker 1: Sorry, we were recording here in our studio at home, and there's a river right outside of the window, and apparently the biggest boat ever is going by right now. But the last question I said, I don't want to ask you, can you prove a commitment to a woman short of an engagement.
00:23:43
Speaker 2: That's a really good question, and I think it depends on the woman. I think yes, the answer is absolutely yes. How by what you say, how you act, what you do. I mean that a woman feels what what Cindy wasn't getting from Mel And this is because of the cameras in the show itself. Some reassurance, you need verbal reassurance, you need physical reassurance, and I think you need consistency. But yes, the trust at some point you do have to just put your trust in someone else. But I do think it's by showing up every day. It's by consistency, it's by being in that person's life every day. It's about how you.
00:24:29
Speaker 1: Act practical things because I hear what you're saying, and no one and I think include being you would accept those things. Right. Wow, shows up every day, He's very engaged, says he loves me, do all the right things. But he still lives there. I still live here. We still don't know this person in his life while you talk about things. Somebody can give you every bit of love, but there is something or some signal that still oftentimes people look for to think okay, not engage. No, he's okay with me.
00:25:01
Speaker 2: I have it for you. So I really do think that I said this to you because we struggled with this a little for a while. I mean, we were together for just about three years before you proposed. But I will say this, I wanted an hour's. I didn't want a mine and a yours. And for me, the commitment was having an hours and having our life together and merging our lives together. I preferred to be married and to have an engagement. But if you didn't and we had this conversation, I was okay with that, but I wanted us to live together. I wanted us to be together. We didn't have to have the even though I will fully say here, I prefer it, even though we don't have to have the legal document that says X, Y and Z, and it's harder for you to leave because then you'd have to get a divorce. I don't want anyone to be with me who feels like they have to for money or legal reasons. But I do think that making the commitment to merger lives together is what it it that was what I needed. I can't speak for all of them.
00:26:04
Speaker 1: So you said merging lives. Can you merge lives short of living together?
00:26:11
Speaker 2: No, because you still have one foot out the door for me. No.
00:26:14
Speaker 1: When you break this down to what we're talking about now, the only way you can show commitment live together. Give me a ring for me?
00:26:22
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:26:22
Speaker 1: What do you think it is for most women?
00:26:24
Speaker 2: Yes? I think it's the same because because I feel like if you're keeping your options open by keeping your own place, you've got one foot out the door.
00:26:31
Speaker 1: You're not fully in.
00:26:33
Speaker 2: You're not fully in.
00:26:34
Speaker 1: Okay, folks, we might have to do a part too, because you just said something, Now, how is a foot out the door?
00:26:40
Speaker 2: You got one foot in one door and one foot in another door. It feels like that.
00:26:45
Speaker 1: Oh man, Okay, folks, we do encourage you. Go back. If you haven't seen, here we go again promoting an ABC show. But if you haven't seen Golden Bachelor, we encourage it because we do believe it. There are great lessons in there for all of us. Whether it has to do is relationships, how to treat others, how to view others, what you should recognize in others, and frankly just being happy with yourself. And particularly take a look at Peg and Cindy from the very first to the end. Now that you know the outcome, I like watching.
00:27:17
Speaker 2: It is kind of cool once you already know. And I and also just want to say this, I actually loved the ending. It wasn't a proposal, it was a promise ring And then a few months later because they always have to keep it secret while they're putting the show together and having an air but when we saw them together for the first time, when they announced, when we all knew that they were together or an item, he said, I'm in love with her, and then she said, and I'm in love with him one hundred percent. And I love what Jesse Palmer said at the end the host it worked. He almost sounded surprise.
00:27:47
Speaker 1: Jesse was shocked and Jesse, we're gonna call you too, man.
00:27:50
Speaker 2: We have a We love Jesse, we love us, We miss Jesse.
00:27:53
Speaker 1: We miss Jesse. Well. Georgia game was the last time we talked to him this season. But we yeah, we're gonna We're gonna talk to Jesse about We take issue with some of the tones. Sometimes during during the episodes, we'll be hollering at you, Jesse, but folks, we always appreciate you listening to us. We do encourage you to go back and watch it. But it's been It was fascinating. We might have to do a part two robes and you said something that fired me up, So all right, stay tuned.