Good as Gold with Judy Gold... (S5 E4 "Cover Girl")

00:00:01
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte.

00:00:07
Speaker 2: I'm so glad that you can join us.

00:00:09
Speaker 1: You guys, Judy Gold is here, which is super exciting.

00:00:12
Speaker 2: She is in episode five oh four.

00:00:15
Speaker 1: It's called Cover Girl and it aired August eleventh, two thousand and two. It's written by Michael Patrick King and Judy Toll and directed by John David Coles.

00:00:24
Speaker 3: And you know, we can't talk about this episode without talking about my friend Judy Toll, I know, was one of my closest friends. You know, she died of andomo. She was I still I'm very close with her family. I still see her mother and her sisters like my little sister and her brother. I'm very close with them. But when I rewatched the episode with my partner, who Alisa, who never met Judy knows Joanne and Gary and Sandy the mother and everything, she was laughing so hard and it was totally the Judy jokes, and I was like, that was that's Judy, that's Judy. But I have such memories of doing that episode and also calling her when I went on the audition. I remember standing and in the street in New York and saying Okay, I did it like this and I said this like this, and she's like perfect, perfect, perfect. But it brought back so many memories. And you know, the one thing I know that you want to talk about, oh no, But the one thing that hit me was you know, the weight Watchers thing, because we used to do weight Watchers.

00:01:46
Speaker 1: Oh you actually did yes hard the card I remember that.

00:01:52
Speaker 3: I was like, oh my god, I forgot about that fucking card where they would write your weight down. We used to joke about that all the time. And how humiliating. The weighing in was awful, awful.

00:02:04
Speaker 2: I've never been to weight Watchers and I was rewatching. I was like, wow, is this accurate? This is grassy.

00:02:10
Speaker 1: They would weigh you and like like in a line like this, like how it was in the show.

00:02:15
Speaker 3: Wow, yes, and you know you'd have this card they put the sticker on and it was just like it was like the card of shame. Oh you know, like, oh I did really well that week and this week I did really be like yeah, and it was And then there were you know, there were the show offfee people who were like, I'm a lifetime member, you know good.

00:02:39
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I wonder if this is still true today at wait Watchers, Like, has it changed?

00:02:44
Speaker 2: Has it evolved?

00:02:45
Speaker 3: Because it's now it's now points and they do it online. Oh yeah, it's all different.

00:02:52
Speaker 2: Wow.

00:02:52
Speaker 3: You know an old friend of mine's mother had the first weight Watchers meeting in her house and Long Island.

00:03:02
Speaker 2: Wow, yes, when was this.

00:03:04
Speaker 3: In the basement of sixties seventy.

00:03:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh my gosh, that's a long time for wait whiteos. Oh my gosh. Let me go back to Judy Toll for a second. Weren't she and Michael Patrick old friends?

00:03:18
Speaker 3: Yes?

00:03:19
Speaker 1: And I couldn't remember the details, like did they do stand up?

00:03:23
Speaker 2: How did she? How did they connect?

00:03:25
Speaker 3: Okay, well, can I tell you about my connection and then connection?

00:03:29
Speaker 4: Yeah?

00:03:30
Speaker 3: So I met Michael. We all worked at the Improv on forty fourth between ninth and ten, and he was in a group. It was him and this woman who what was her name? Oh god king and shit, I forgot her name. They would do they would do skits together and Michael was straight. This is derekle I know, and we were all like Michael, seriously but whatever, and he said he was dating that. It was ridiculous, But it's the eighties.

00:04:05
Speaker 1: You know the eighties, no way, yes, and so we would.

00:04:10
Speaker 3: I remember my fondest memories of Michael at the improv. They had a door outside that was always locked. I think it was like a fire escape door, and it was right next to the stage, and you know, at late at night we would just fool around. He would go on the back mic and start saying, it's on stage, and then they'd go outside and bang on the door. I mean, it was just he was so funny. But I don't know, Kristin, if you remember I had a spit curl for a very long time in the eighties, I do not remember, yes, And I used to do this bit called it's Judy Show like I would have I had a spit curl, And I said, this, the reason I have it is because if I had my own show in the sixties, I'd opened the show sliding down a big spit girl singing it's Judy's shut and Michael wrote that. Michael wrote that, wow, and it became my signature bit. So Michael gets a job on Murphy Brown and we're all like, oh my god, Michaelson la he's you know, And he started doing on Cabaret they which is not stand up but more storytelling. And and that's where he met Judy Tole And they were all in this big uncabaret group that I wanted to be a part of so much. And they're like, you tell jokes, I tell stories. I tell stories too. Whatever. Yeah, so that's how they all became friends.

00:05:50
Speaker 1: And then was Judy writing also for TV at that point.

00:05:54
Speaker 3: Yes, she was. Her and Monica Rosenthal, phil Rosenthal's wife, were a team. They were doing so many they were doing like shows together, and she was doing the un cab and she was like brilliant at it, and she was writing. She wrote on Boy Meets World, she was writing on a bunch of shows, and Kristen when I Tote such so funny and raw and honest and like when you go in that episode in the bookstore, you see one of the books they focus on is is a book by Judy Trank. She ended up marrying a guy named Trank and it says Me and My Needs And that was the name of the pilot that she wrote about her life. But she also wrote a movie with Wendy Gold. What the hell, I'm looking it up. I'm looking it up.

00:06:56
Speaker 2: Okay, what movie.

00:06:59
Speaker 3: Film writer Boy Meets World alright, the Geena David Show.

00:07:04
Speaker 4: Oh.

00:07:05
Speaker 3: She co wrote the film Casual Sex in nineteen eighty eight. Wow, And it was started Leah Thompson, Wow, Victoria Jackson Andrew Dice Clay and it originated as a Groundlings. They were in the Groundlings.

00:07:20
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, with Lisa Kujo, right.

00:07:22
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, and so her and Wendy Goldman wrote that. But yeah, so that was like a big, big that was like her.

00:07:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Wow.

00:07:33
Speaker 1: I'm so sad that she got melanoma. That's horrible, horrible.

00:07:37
Speaker 3: You know. She was such a hypochondria. And she had a whole bit in her act about like whenever I get a headache, I think, and the audience would yell brain humor and like wow. But I have to tell you her sense of humor was there till the very end. She lost her hair and she was wearing a wig. She would take she would take the wig and and sort of move it, move it forward and be like good, now you know what there's more he like. And then when she got her diagnosis, she used to call us and go Judy told to Stage four, Judy told to Stage four, and we would just laugh and laugh and you know, it was just so sad because every she had a stomach ache, you know, bull cancer, like everything was like she would go to the Emptigree and and yeah, she had a thing on her back and she met this guy, Richard Trank and they were hiking and he said, what's that thing on your back? And it was a mile Mom went she got it treated and then it came back and it was just terrible, just terrible. But she was I can't even tell you. And she's all over that episode.

00:09:04
Speaker 1: I mean she really is, Like it's so it's such a very very interesting episode anyway, right, It's like it has a lot going on, and I had one hundred percent forgotten about it. Like this is one where I'm watching and I literally don't know what's going to happen. I had forgotten about the whole cover shoot for the Carrie book, which is.

00:09:22
Speaker 2: Getting very meta.

00:09:23
Speaker 1: We're in a very meta place at this point where you know, they want her to pose basically naked, and she's like no, no, no, no no. But you remember we've already done the Cosmopolitan advertising where Sarah Jessica is naked in the Cosmopolitan glass right right, right, right, and Candace had done you know, like the semi nude cover of her book, Like it's all very it's a lot, and it's interesting to see Carrie saying no, no, no, I used to dress like that, but not anymore. She says to Samantha, I think we should change at this point in time, meaning like age.

00:09:58
Speaker 2: Which is really interesting.

00:10:00
Speaker 1: I don't remember that at all, and it seems kind of very uncarry, like in a way.

00:10:05
Speaker 3: It's also that theme of judgement, body and judgment. I mean it goes with the Miranda waywatchers that the whole thing is about body image and you know, appropriate behavior, you know, like what you're supposed to do, how you're supposed to behave right, you know, what you're supposed to reveal, right, And I just I love it. And you know, I was watching it with Elisa and she's like, the writing is so incredible. Good. Yeah, and that I don't see she said, I don't see that anymore. You know, it's just tied up. Everything ties up at the end, not not in a way that it's not you don't think there's more to talk about, but just that you know, you get to a point where okay, okay, we're dealing with this issue it's not over no, but yeah, it's all about body image.

00:11:09
Speaker 2: It's super interesting.

00:11:10
Speaker 1: But I also felt it was so prescient in so many ways, Like at one point Carrie mentions Amazon.

00:11:14
Speaker 2: She's on the computer, She's like Amazon, and I'm like, oh, a little do we know that?

00:11:20
Speaker 1: Right? And then the thing about judgment that they're talking about, and when she does her little you know, I wonder section. It really made me think about social media and the way that now everyone judges immediately and you have a voice for it. All of that hadn't really happened yet, but it's a human thing to judge, right, But we were all kind of judging like in real time and talking to each other or holding in those judgments, I guess, And now all the judgments are coming out like immediately, right right, which is super interesting to think about. But I felt watching it as I feel this way in general when I watched the show. But sometimes it's one of those ones like this particular episode, it shouts out at you about how on the pulse they were of kind of things that were happening in our culture.

00:12:06
Speaker 3: One hundred percent. And as you talk about the social media every I remember watching is it Samantha's on the phone, uh with Carrie, and she's walking down the street and I'm looking at the background and she's got a phone but no one else has a phone. Amazing, And there's a guy behind her with a camera, like a real camera, and you know that whole idea of you know, like even weight Watchers, it isn't a quick fix, right, you know, it's things were more thought out. You know, we had time to absorb and process, and there's no absorbing process. And that's why I think that the writing is so great, because you really go on the journey and go, yeah, they thought it through and resolved it at the end, you know. Yeah. But there's just so many amazing themes like that home Miranda in bed with that guy.

00:13:17
Speaker 2: Oh my god, she brought this up.

00:13:19
Speaker 1: I just saw sin and she brought this up. But I hadn't remembered it the whole Glady Donut. Yes, Yes, I had fully forgotten this, and I was like, wow, we were really ahead of our.

00:13:31
Speaker 2: Time, I know.

00:13:36
Speaker 1: But I also really really liked that actor Craig Gas as Tom Big Bones, which.

00:13:42
Speaker 3: Is so I love him.

00:13:44
Speaker 1: He's just good because he's got like a depth and a kind of a he's pretty simple for a guest star, right, like he he doesn't he's not trying to be showy.

00:13:54
Speaker 3: He's just very He's also like, I'm big, he's a tract and he's so self aware. Like you don't see guys that are self aware like that. No, I'm sure they exist, self effacing, yeah, totally.

00:14:08
Speaker 2: We just don't see that portrayed very often.

00:14:11
Speaker 3: Which was interesting, Yeah, because it's it's not considered masculine, right, and i mean, which is also you foresee Miranda being a lesbo. You know she's with a guy. I didn't even yeah, but you know she's with the guy who's like that is like a woman a little bit, you know, and he gets up like when he gets up and covers himself in that sheet, like you're not going to see my body.

00:14:41
Speaker 2: I mean, he's so good. We relate so much.

00:14:45
Speaker 3: I don't think guys do.

00:14:46
Speaker 1: I mean maybe they don't, but I certainly did, right, And that's interesting to see it, you.

00:14:51
Speaker 2: Know, it's interesting to see it.

00:14:52
Speaker 1: And also before they get into bed, like when they're at the restaurant because they meet through with wait watchers. I'm sure everyone listening knows, but just to recap. They meet through weight watchers. They have like a funny kind of self effacing, you know, trading of you know, I'm big boned, and she's like, I'm baby wait. It's very cute, and I was wondering because she goes she says, I'm baby wait.

00:15:11
Speaker 2: But he never says are you.

00:15:12
Speaker 1: With someone, which is kind of interesting, like I don't know when they I guess that's off camera that they get over.

00:15:17
Speaker 2: That point, and then they go out to eat and.

00:15:19
Speaker 1: They bond over their desire for nuts exactly for Krispy Kreme, and they make a lot of jokes about the points and weight watchers, and then he says at the end, it's sweet because I felt like, I mean, you know, back then, like the things that were going through my head were all the crazy diets that weed all done, Like when we go to the bookshop and I say you should get the zone like I did the Zone hardcore and I fainted.

00:15:46
Speaker 2: And I was like, did they use fainted? Yes?

00:15:48
Speaker 1: I fainted multiple times, multiple times. I fainted one time in a parking lot. Yeah, and I'm sure yes, way, yes, way, And everyone who was advising me about it, they were like, that's fine.

00:16:01
Speaker 3: Why we're so like that. That TV industry was so like here take fen Fenn here, yeah, take that, take that.

00:16:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just escaped fen Fenn like like by Ash Sliver.

00:16:12
Speaker 2: But I remember.

00:16:13
Speaker 1: Cynthia and I at the same time, and it was nothing anyone told us to do. It was self policing. It was us basically for me, I don't want to speak for Cynthia. It was me trying to be able to a make pat Field happy with my weight, which was very challenging.

00:16:29
Speaker 2: And B when we.

00:16:30
Speaker 1: Would go to do the photo shoots, they would just have the samples. And people still ask me about this today. They don't understand the whole like sample thing. But what it is is, you know, I'm sure you don't.

00:16:40
Speaker 2: When you go to a.

00:16:41
Speaker 1: Photo shoot, they have the samples because the samples are what the designers will send for free, so they don't have to buy all the clothes.

00:16:47
Speaker 3: Right.

00:16:47
Speaker 1: But the designers only have a few of the samples, and they make the samples in like model size for somebody based on history or whatever. Right, So that is why all the actresses are trying to fit in to the size to model size, which is very hard to do obviously, So it's not even like anyone had to say to us, you know, you guys need to lose weight. We're self policing ourselves because we want to have a good time at the photoshoots and have good clothes to wear and not be like I.

00:17:15
Speaker 2: Can't get the pants on, which.

00:17:18
Speaker 1: Humiliating, so humiliating, and it would happen over and over and over to me to wear.

00:17:23
Speaker 2: I just took a bag with clothes, but.

00:17:25
Speaker 3: You weren't even overweight.

00:17:28
Speaker 1: No, it's so crazy. But I had hips, and back when we started, you know, the end of the nineties, all the models were just straight straight, so there was really no way I could get my body to fit in. And if I did get my hips to fit in, then the waists would be massive. Right, It's just like a nightmare. So I would carry this bag with like a black pair of pants that fed, and maybe a pair of jeans that fit, because there might be absolutely nothing at the photo shoot, which was so hard.

00:17:59
Speaker 2: So I did a lot of dieting.

00:18:01
Speaker 1: And there was a time at work where Cynthia was doing ooh, I want to say Atkins, and I was doing the Zone. And when I would get to work in the morning on her chair would be a massive plate of bacon and then next to it would be a massive bag of celery that she would have brought and she would eat those two things all day long.

00:18:24
Speaker 2: Now, was this healthy?

00:18:26
Speaker 3: No?

00:18:28
Speaker 1: No, no, But this is what we did for like a long time.

00:18:32
Speaker 3: And that's why people love that Atkins diet. They're like, I can eat so much protein and bacon, but it's not good for you. It's not good for you.

00:18:40
Speaker 1: And I was doing the Zone, which was a little more balanced, but it was still just like, oh so much thinking, you know, you had to like everything was It was not fun. Okay, this is my Hyundai hot take for the episode cover Girl, and I'm going to go with the end of the show when Carrie is getting photographed for her book cover, thus the cover Girl, and I love it because it's there's been so much conversation about what she will or won't wear for her cover, which is so meta because at this point in time, we're all having to go to photo shoots for the show. They're trying to get us to wear basically nothing. Sars has already posed as Carrie for the show in the Martini Glass, you know, wearing nothing, and she Carrie doesn't want to be on her book cover wearing nothing, so she ends up wearing this jacket in the end with heels. She looks beautiful, and Samantha is at the photo shoot being very supportive of her, and the camera pans out and it's a beautiful kind of meta shot, and I feel like, also, we love that shot because I think we feel so supportive of Carrie in terms of like her success, Like you're so in invested in Carrie, all the fans who watched the show so invested, and you're kind of getting to see behind the scenes, and the crossover between like Sarah, Jessica and Carrie is really interesting in that context. So that's going to be my Hondai hot take, celebrating iconic moments, bold moves, and unforgettable style, just like Hyundai.

00:20:24
Speaker 3: The scene in the bookstore, first of all, the woman who's crying is so funny.

00:20:30
Speaker 2: Oh my god, so funny.

00:20:32
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:20:32
Speaker 2: I can't tell which name she is on my.

00:20:34
Speaker 1: Little list, but like those ladies, I had forgotten about that scene.

00:20:38
Speaker 3: Yeah that is great, Judy, Yeah.

00:20:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, wait, let's just tell our listeners just in case you guys don't remember Charlotte. So all four women go, you know, Carrie, Samantha, Miranda, Charlotte go to the bookstore Barnes and Noble. I think, right, yes, on a Union Square, exactly one we've been to so many times.

00:20:55
Speaker 2: And we split up.

00:20:56
Speaker 1: So Miranda and Charlotte go off and I'm going to the self help section. She's going to the diet section. Carrie is looking at covers because she's getting ready to do the cover for her book that Amy Sedaris and Molly Shannon have previously you know, pitched her on. They're the editors or whatever, which is also really funny, and.

00:21:14
Speaker 2: They're great, Oh my god, they're so great, so great, so perfect, so great.

00:21:19
Speaker 1: So she's looking at other covers to kind of get her mind around what she wants because they want her to basically pose naked on the cover, right, She doesn't want to do it, so go ahead.

00:21:28
Speaker 2: So when we're in.

00:21:30
Speaker 3: We're in the Noble and I remember, you know, it's full of extras. The whole the place is closed down and it's full of extras. I don't know what time we should it was. It was probably late, yeah, I think it was.

00:21:45
Speaker 1: At night and so you can't see daylight and wow, yeah, now it was.

00:21:49
Speaker 3: At night, it was after it closed, and I remember one of the extras was like said to me, do you know which section I would find? Uh? And she and I'm like, I don't work here, Okay, I don't work here, so yeah, why are you shopping for books? Yeah?

00:22:09
Speaker 1: I mean I do remember we were there for a long time, and I do remember myself shopping for books. And we had a certain person on our crew I'm not going to say their name, and I thought they needed some self help books. So when I was in the self help group, I was like pulling out books like.

00:22:24
Speaker 3: Right, right, right, look at this one. That's hilarious.

00:22:28
Speaker 2: But what tell me previously?

00:22:29
Speaker 1: I'm surprised you hadn't been on our show before this, Like I know, yeah, what what was that? What do you remember about auditioning or calling Michael or how did it work?

00:22:39
Speaker 3: Well? We auditioned in person, got it. Michael was there at the table, you know, Like people don't realize because we don't audition like that anymore. No, But I felt really confident because I knew Judy wrote it. And I was like, what do I do? And She's like, just be yourself and just going down. Yeah, and I just remember going in. It It's it's like, I don't know how you feel about this, but like when you walk in a room to audition and you know, intimately know one of the people behind the desk, is it a gift or a curse? You know, Like I don't.

00:23:17
Speaker 2: I think it's good. I think it's good. I think so. I mean I haven't had.

00:23:21
Speaker 1: To do it in a while either, because life is totally different now. But for me, I think that I was really bad at auditioning, like really bad, so any comfort at all was positive, do you know what I mean? Like, yes, it is a little weird, right because like there's people and I don't know who are there, and also people you.

00:23:41
Speaker 2: Do know, right, but you knew Michael too, so I mean.

00:23:44
Speaker 3: Well I know Michael really well and so and then he's in this position of power and I'm the not in the position of power, and it's just a weird dynamic. But it's true. That's true. I went in and then you know, you just want to be like just tell me, now, just tell you have to wait and wait and wait.

00:24:03
Speaker 2: That's annoying.

00:24:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but yeah, I just remember going in the room. He's there, very friendly professional, and you know that it was. It doesn't happen anymore. I think you go on you have to now go on tape. Yeah, it is so horrible? Is it because I hate going on tape? I hate?

00:24:27
Speaker 2: Well, let me ask you this though.

00:24:29
Speaker 1: Do you hate doing like a self tape at home where you're in charge?

00:24:33
Speaker 2: You do?

00:24:34
Speaker 1: Okay, you don't because I like being in charge.

00:24:38
Speaker 3: I think because I'm a stand up comment and I go in and I don't know what. I think I'm more emotionally prepared for. Like for I love being in a room. I think like being in a room. And and also this is the other thing about self taping. You'll do it a hundred times until you liked it. Yeah, and then but when you go in a room, they will direct you, so you get to show them. I can take direction definitely. Well, you know, and so I think because of I think probably live performers for a room.

00:25:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, well you can feel the room. You can feel the room. I can totally, that's true. That's true.

00:25:21
Speaker 1: I think for me, the thing that's weird and I'm not it's not like my self table lot. I don't, but I know people do. I feel like the thing is like more private, which is nice, but yes, you're not getting the direction and you're not getting the kind of creative vibes.

00:25:38
Speaker 3: And yeah, I'm not feeling like, oh, I'd like to work with this person.

00:25:42
Speaker 1: Right, because you do kind of need to feel that. And I do remember when we were casting and just like that, we had to do it on zoom and it was so hard because you're trying to chat with people over zoom.

00:25:53
Speaker 2: It's crazy, it is it is.

00:25:56
Speaker 1: That was that was awkward because I felt like I just felt like all of the were so nervous on zoom, you know.

00:26:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's like where's that connection? You can't really read? I don't know. No, it's why you love doing this show in person.

00:26:12
Speaker 1: I do love doing this show in person. But I will say this, there's no one else here, so I do feel like we're in charge, which is nice, you know what I mean. But on the zoom, like I remember with Nicole, she was on a zoom and I feel like there were ten other people there. You don't mean, like our executive producers are casting everyone.

00:26:29
Speaker 2: But it was like we can't talk to her like this.

00:26:31
Speaker 1: It's crazy, But I mean, you make it work you make it work. Those were weird times obviously, Yeah.

00:26:37
Speaker 3: But it's so yeah, the industry has changed.

00:26:40
Speaker 2: It is it has?

00:26:41
Speaker 1: Can I ask you really quickly before we talk more about the show. I wanted to ask you about Mindy Kaling show.

00:26:46
Speaker 2: Are you on there?

00:26:47
Speaker 3: What is it like? Yes? How is it? Oh? My god, Kristen, it's like a dream. Come shit. You know what it's like. You know, you work and work and work, and there's ebbs and flows. Yeah, and you know, I'm look, my whole career has been like, well, you're a specific type, Junie, you know, because I'm tall and I'm a little loud, but I'm not I can act.

00:27:12
Speaker 2: You can totally act. You can. Everyone know Judy Gold can act.

00:27:17
Speaker 3: And but you people think you are your comedy action. It's like no. So anyway, I remember I auditioned. I sent in a tape and then I didn't hear anything, and then I went to LA to shoot something else and I came back and they're like, you have a callback, and I was on Zoom. It was on Zoom and then I got cast and you know, you read these pilots you got I mean, I don't get a lot. I'm not someone who's constantly getting asked to audition for stuff because you're a specific tight So I read it and I was like, oh, my god, the writing is so good. And I got it and I get on set and I'm with Victor Garber. My god, yes, opposite Vitor Garber.

00:28:12
Speaker 2: I love Victor. Tell him high.

00:28:15
Speaker 3: Well, and it's a it's really about, you know, these young kids starting out their their first jobs in New York City and the Old Guard. I'm part of the Old Guard, and I played Paula Miller and she is the longtime producer of the show that is hosted by Victor Garber, The West Dryden Show. And in the eighties they were married. They're both gay. They're both gay, and they were married because he couldn't get in the anchor chair if if they and I couldn't be a producer if I was like an out lesbon. So we got married and divorced and we've been together for many, many years and it's just so fun and the acting and the writing and mindy kay wait, yes on this was the greatest thing because you know how like you think you're a piece of all the time in this business, Yes you don't, but I do. Okay. So I was on a table read it was Zoom table read and she was on and she's like, oh my god, Judy, We're so lucky to have you. You're such a comedy icon. Oh my god, Like you just don't know, like you don't.

00:29:34
Speaker 2: Know that's nice and that's true. You are. I'm so glad that Mindy appreciates you.

00:29:39
Speaker 4: Yay.

00:29:40
Speaker 2: I'm gonna watch this show now now I'm gonna go catch up.

00:29:43
Speaker 3: I love Victor.

00:29:44
Speaker 1: Victor was on and just like that with us, which is super exciting. Sometimes we kept in there a very long time. Yeah, challenged for Victor's moods.

00:29:55
Speaker 2: But I love him so much. We all love him so much.

00:29:58
Speaker 1: I'm a talent, you know, Like he's like, you know, I love it when people in the larger group like get to be together in different ways, fun over time.

00:30:08
Speaker 2: I love that so much. Yay, yay.

00:30:11
Speaker 1: Now I'm going to watch that show for sure. And they wait also Larry David show, Ye what do you do on there?

00:30:17
Speaker 3: So it was just on on Friday. Who's the fourth episode?

00:30:21
Speaker 2: Okay?

00:30:22
Speaker 3: And so he you know what's it's produced by the Obama you know what's about?

00:30:27
Speaker 1: Yes, American American history told through the eyes of Larry David Right.

00:30:32
Speaker 3: And so I play Jonah Salt, who found the you know, vaccine.

00:30:38
Speaker 2: Fore so he.

00:30:41
Speaker 3: Plays Jonah Salk's mother, and I played the neighbor Evelyn. Wow, he's Dora, and we're both putting up we're in Queens. It's it's the fifties and we're putting up our our laundry. Oh, he's just bragging. And I remember he had a bit about this in his act, like about Jonah Salt's mother. So it was like, you know, it was like an extension of his comedy. And he's like, did I tell you my son Bilba? And I'm like, yes, you's old, I know. And it's this back and forth and then it's really funny. And then the neighbor on the other side starts screaming about vaccines and they caused this, and it's Bobby Kennedy. It's a guy playing Bobby Kennedy. And they take them away. They come and take them away, like two guys in white suits, and it's such, you know, it's such a few.

00:31:36
Speaker 2: Too, oh my gosh.

00:31:38
Speaker 3: And so it's really it's yeah, it's it's so much and it's it's so funny.

00:32:00
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to the show. That was fun I can't wait to watch your new things. I'm very excited. I'm very excited.

00:32:05
Speaker 2: Okay, Now let's go to Carrie for a second.

00:32:07
Speaker 1: So we have this super super meta storyline for Carrie where Carrie, So, Carrie has a column in the show, just like Candace Bushnell had in the eighties and nineties in New York. And then Candace they compile her columns into a book, same way they suggest to compile Carrie's into a book.

00:32:26
Speaker 2: They compile Candace's into a book.

00:32:29
Speaker 1: That book gets optioned by Darren Starr and then by HBO and made into our show Sex and the City, where she's also a columnist. Like, we're following along the course of Candace's life really interestingly, and I honestly don't think we ever thought we would do this.

00:32:43
Speaker 2: I think that in the beginning we.

00:32:45
Speaker 1: Didn't realize like the potential for us to, you know, like do a side version of Candace's actual right, you know, life. I guess though, I think we're we're so grounded in what Carrie has become that it's kind of different. But it's funny and I like how And then Molly Shannon and Amy Senarisi's characters show up, and you know, they're they're like, they're you know, young female editors and they're like sex cells, you know, when they're trying to show her the idea for her book cover, which would be you know, her naked with like the words.

00:33:18
Speaker 3: Oh my god, it's so funny, right, it's so funny.

00:33:23
Speaker 1: It's really good, and Sir Jessica, sorry, Carrie is like no, and they're like.

00:33:27
Speaker 2: What what and then she's like, well, I'm not I put.

00:33:31
Speaker 1: On clothes, yeah, house right, And I'm like, oh, I remember when she did the you know, when she did the Cosmopolitan thing and I thought it was great, but I remember there was some conversation.

00:33:42
Speaker 2: I don't remember who really started.

00:33:44
Speaker 1: It, but someone was like, oh, are they just using your body to sell the show?

00:33:49
Speaker 2: And she was kind of like, oh, I don't know. I didn't think of that.

00:33:52
Speaker 1: Like, it was a very awkward thing where I felt like, Sir Jessica, and I'll ask her. But I felt like she felt confident about doing that. But then I felt like there was judgment put on it, you know by other people. It's interesting and that's all in the storyline here about many different ways of judging and also like how do you package things?

00:34:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, how do you package it? Like she wants to be taken seriously as a as a writer, and yet wait, I have to do this, and I feel like that was the way like sex sell, sex sell, especially objectifying women. You know, it's like this is going to get the eyeballs on it cares about you know, who cares about the content, And right now, I care about the content and that's not what I'm selling. But you like, you can look at that now with social media, Oh my god, what's going to get the eyeballs? And then I'll worry about the work later and definitely it ends up like not working and not having life.

00:35:00
Speaker 1: So many women don't wear clothes now, you know when they're out promoting things. But it's also thought of like as there they have freedom, you know in it.

00:35:10
Speaker 2: It's supposed to be kind of empowering in a way.

00:35:13
Speaker 3: Right, It's like I can do what I want to do. It's like, you know, it translates a lot to stand up comedy because when you think of the women. I remember when I started in the eighties, women were really we were wearing jackets. We never showed our body because that the audience wouldn't listen, like we're already fighting to get your respect, because it's like, oh, yeah, okay, let's see what this chick has to say. Wow, if you showed any part of your body, that's what the guys in the audience would focus on, and maybe the women would be like, I'm not going to listen to her. She has a hot body. And you know, so if you look at the at the trajectory of what women are wearing on stage now versus the eighties, nineties, early aughts, it's, you know, we're very I don't know, you know, you think about Paula Poundstone's big suits. Yeah, the suits, and it was just like you know, Phyllis Diller, she even her she said, I'm gonna wear this crazy outfit because my legs look funny, and I I just you know, I want to and and you know, Joan Joan was Joan Rivers was very about you have to be pretty and she over overdid her face. You know, but you look at it and we're very androgynous eighties, nineties, early aughts, and then finally this, you know what I'm gonna own my body and I'm gonna you know, I'm gonna wear whatever the fuck I want. I mean these and I remember thinking, these guys get on stage and there were are in sweatpants and like like filthy T shirts and like, you know, they haven't bathed, and it's like, how can you get to get on stage like that? Right?

00:37:12
Speaker 2: Right?

00:37:12
Speaker 3: And you're just a funny dude, right, and we have to like cover up our bodies so that you're listening to what's coming out of our mouth.

00:37:19
Speaker 2: That's super interesting.

00:37:20
Speaker 1: But now even if you think about like Nicki Glazer, Nicki Glazer, you know, it's right, like very sexy and for sense, like I'm sexy, right, and then she tells stories about sex and jokes and whatever, right, and only, yeah, she definitely owns it.

00:37:35
Speaker 2: It's inherently part of her her act.

00:37:38
Speaker 3: I don't think it's anti feminist. I think it's she you know, because she owns it, because you know it's you know, I always think is being a feminist and present women presenting themselves, you know, is feminism. I can do exactly what this guy's doing or say exactly what it's not. It's that whatever I say is equally as valid and important as what that guy's saying. Definitely, it's that we are who we are, right, and it's equal and not being them, you know so, and I think she she embodies that.

00:38:17
Speaker 2: I agree.

00:38:18
Speaker 1: I agree, absolutely absolutely, And I also think it's like, who are you really, right, Like, you should be able to present who.

00:38:24
Speaker 2: You really are.

00:38:25
Speaker 1: If you felt like wearing a suit, you could wear a suit, but you shouldn't be forced to wear a suit based on other people's perception, you know.

00:38:33
Speaker 3: Right, Because if Carrie was a guy, they would be putting.

00:38:38
Speaker 2: Her in a suit, of course, yes.

00:38:40
Speaker 3: And it's just so like, since you're a woman writing this, we need to, you know.

00:38:46
Speaker 2: Go for the sex because that's what's going.

00:38:48
Speaker 1: To sell, because that's what women are totally subjects, and also because they want men to look at it, and that would be the way to pull men in. And it's not thought that, oh, you might alienate the women or whatever. Right like it it's really interesting, it's really and it's.

00:39:01
Speaker 3: Also pre me too, and so and I think the fact that Molly and Amy are women telling her, like, there's no way it would have had the same impact if it was two guys saying you know.

00:39:17
Speaker 1: Well that would have been totally different and weird, right right, yeah, totally, but also her reaction is so funny too.

00:39:24
Speaker 4: Yeah.

00:39:36
Speaker 1: And then this whole thing with Samantha, I totally forgot about this. I totally forgot that because she doesn't know how to present herself. She basically ends up kind of asking Samantha her opinion, and Samantha's like, oh, I'm going to help you, and she's like, I can't afford you. It's all very interesting, and then they kind of get into a conflict about this also because of the delivery man blowjob, which we'll get but it's super we are interesting, Like how like the twist that's put on all of these things in terms of them being on kind of opposite sides, you know, like like the idea of, you know, what would be presentable on the cover of your book, and Samantha's like, oh, I'm going to call a stylas friend of mine and he's going to pull some outfits for you. And then she gets there and the outfits are like fluffy maribou feathers on lingerie, you know, and Samantha thinks that this would be a good book cover, and Carrie's like, no, I look like a hooker, which she looks like a hooker from the twenties or the third interesting, you know, but Samantha's like, no, you don't.

00:40:39
Speaker 2: It's all very very interesting. And I felt very.

00:40:42
Speaker 1: Much when I was watching it like I was taken back to the time that we were at because this is when the show is now really popular and we're having to do all kinds of bizarre photo shoots where like I don't know if this had happened yet, I'd have to go back and look. But there's a cover that we do of Entertainment Weekly, oh like like like level ten nightmare in my book. This thing we go, it's this kind of like young hot guy director, you know, this photographer director or whatever, and he wants us, all four of us supposedly naked under a sheet and I remember just sweating, just sweating, and the picture that they end up using he would like he would shout things out, like the other thing we're supposed to be wearing lingerie, And again I didn't feel happy nowe of the lingerie fit me. It was all awkward and I didn't want to wear like regular It was so weird, right, But we really felt like we had to do it because we also felt like the show needed press and we needed to do the thing that you need to do to get a press, right, And so there were these vintage lingerie sets and one was like pantaloons kind of like down to here with like ribbons, right, like kind of pretty baby, but at.

00:41:52
Speaker 3: Least covers, you know.

00:41:54
Speaker 2: So I was like, oh, please let me wear those. So I put them on and I'm.

00:41:56
Speaker 1: Like, please like them, because you know how you had to get everything approved.

00:41:59
Speaker 2: By all the twenty million people though that you don't know, and they're like, no.

00:42:03
Speaker 1: She can't wear that, and I'm like, oh my god, like I'm just dressing and I think Pat and Mali are there, and so then they're like, okay, well you have to wear this other thing. I can't even remember what it was, but I didn't feel good in it. So I'm covering myself in the sheet, at which point the.

00:42:18
Speaker 2: Photographers he kept.

00:42:20
Speaker 1: The four of us are in our weird poses right like all face in the camera, and the photographer keeps saying like Katrina, Katrina, spread your legs, and everyone's like.

00:42:28
Speaker 2: Who's he talking to? Is he talking to? And we're kind of trying to figure out, like is he talking to chimeras? Talk to me like I don't know. And then finally I'm like me and he's like, yeah, you spread your legs. He's got me on the bed.

00:42:42
Speaker 1: On my knees and with me spread my legs and I'm dying.

00:42:45
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm dying, sir.

00:42:47
Speaker 1: Jessica is wearing like boy underwear, like this is like her tidy whitey phase, right, and I think she feels strong because she's wearing something unusual and masculine.

00:42:57
Speaker 2: There's like a twist that she likes.

00:42:58
Speaker 1: Right, I'm just dying, sweating, and I feel like I might cry. So the picture that ends up I know, I know the picture that they end up using. We were sitting all in a row and we have the sheet on top of us, and I'm basically just trying to cover myself up and I look like I'm about to cry. And then I'm mad and I'm like moving my hair. It's like a shot where I think I were. I didn't think they were taking the picture I'm saying. And all I can think about.

00:43:23
Speaker 2: When I look at that picture is how upset I am. You know.

00:43:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, it takes me right back there to just the intense, you know, anxiety that would come from them thinking that you would just be fine, just totally fine to be wearing underwear on the cover of a magazine.

00:43:44
Speaker 3: Do you think they would get away with that now, like there would.

00:43:48
Speaker 2: Be that's a good question. I think it would depend who it was.

00:43:53
Speaker 3: But you feeling like that, right.

00:43:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, we would have a voice, We would have a voice. But I think that we happened then. Like what I remember of it then was that the magazine wanted what the magazine wanted, right, and we wanted to please the magazine because we were getting the cover of a magazine, which was a very big deal for us, you know what I'm saying. It wasn't like that was happening every week or even every since. I don't think we had had a cover of a magazine, So I think it was a huge deal. So you're trying to please the people who want to put you on the cover, and you feel like that's a requisite prerequisite at the time, right, And somehow my other co stars were feeling better about it than I was. I don't really know how, or maybe they were pretending better. I'm not sure, but I'm just really bad at that. But I do think now there are so many people in our industry and I'm kind of thinking of people singing people who that's there. They normally wear lingerie. That's their normal, what they wear for their whole entire stadium show, right right, Yeah.

00:44:54
Speaker 3: But that's their choice like that, that's their character they created, that's what they think the audience suspects, and they feel comfortable in that, and you shouldn't feel uncomfortable.

00:45:03
Speaker 1: And I agree, I agree, But I think they thought that we were on a show called Sex and the City and that.

00:45:08
Speaker 3: Were fine sex, yeah, yeah, right, But it's very.

00:45:11
Speaker 1: Different to be on a set with your crew, who you know and who's going to protect you. You're saying with a closed set that we would have if we had a sex scene and you're acting. That's totally different than like me, Kristen, you know, coming to a photo shoot and being like hello, you.

00:45:29
Speaker 2: Know, it's just weird anyway, you know.

00:45:31
Speaker 1: I was thinking all these things when I was watching the show, because I think these things were kind of happening in our lives, you know, not in the show, right, And so Michael's like pulling it all in together to what's going on in our lives at the time, you know what I'm saying.

00:45:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, I totally get it. I remember I was I was a regular on All American Girl, which was Margaret chose Oh yeah, right, so and it was one year and one of the episodes Margaret and me and Matti Corman we all move in together. We're her best friends, and we moved into an apartment together and the I like to walk around naked, and that's so they do this episode where it's like every time I walk in the room, they're like, Gloria, right, and I have a I have a flesh colored I hate that saying, my flesh colored bodysuit on and it's pixelated. And you know, the funny part of the scene is Margaret's family comes over unexpectedly and I'm like hey, and I walk out and the little brother's like, Gloria, oh, you know whatever. It's like. And I remember being on set in this flesh colored bodysuit and one of the camera guys or grips said something, uh oh, and I was like, no, this is so uncomfortable for me, like now, and I went and told on him and he had to leave.

00:47:07
Speaker 1: You know, that's good because back in the day was there was not the things in place that we need, you know, always. I mean, I think the nice thing for us on set was that we had a lot of the same crew for the whole you know run of the show. It was like a family, Yeah, and everyone was super sensitive.

00:47:25
Speaker 2: I mean not all the time, not all the time.

00:47:27
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of a couple occasions where it was in the case, but it's more rare occasions when they weren't than most of the time, you know, And that was so important for us for what we were trying to do. The thing that was interesting was that back in the day, mostly and it would somewhat depend on the director, right, because the directors would change, and you know, there's a whole variety of types of directors, right, and I remember there was one, you know, in the beginning, there were some awkward times. I've talked about it on the podcast before, where you know, it was unclear was the show for men? Was the show for women?

00:48:00
Speaker 2: Was it supposed to yeah, was.

00:48:03
Speaker 1: It supposed to be funny or was it supposed to be sexy? Like there was a lot of confusion within our creative world about our purpose in the beginning, and that led to some awkward times in the beginning where you had to kind of stand up and say, like, I'm not going to be pretending to give a hand job on camera. It needs to be under the sheets, right, and maybe like, what do you mean this is called Sex and the City. And that particular time I had to go hide in my dressing room and call my manager back in LA to be.

00:48:30
Speaker 2: Like, help me do something called yeah.

00:48:33
Speaker 1: But we then we worked it out like what the vibe was, and somewhat the vibe was somewhat what you felt comfortable, right, Like it was we had enough power that we could speak you know what I'm saying, which wasn't always the case, right.

00:48:48
Speaker 3: Right, It's like you're putting yourself out there, right, it's and yeah, yeah.

00:48:54
Speaker 1: Sometimes if you were like if you were an actress on a film set, you probably didn't have that power because you were probably just surrounded me in right, right, and there were twenty actresses lined up to do that part, you know what I'm saying, So you had that sense of like, oh, I better not say what I actually would like here because I am going to get in trouble and.

00:49:11
Speaker 2: Potentially get fired.

00:49:13
Speaker 1: I did definitely feel that that was the norm in our industry for.

00:49:16
Speaker 2: A really long time. So I think intimacy coordinators is great.

00:49:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, cut to I think, you know we've got there's a happy medium. That's what I want to say. There's a happy medium.

00:49:29
Speaker 2: You know that's true.

00:49:30
Speaker 1: Anyway, let's go back to the show.

00:49:32
Speaker 2: Let's go back to Okay.

00:49:33
Speaker 1: So Carrie is going through this whole thing where she like kind of inadvertently gets Samantha's help on the book cover and then so and she says to Samantha like, I can't afford you, and Samantha says it will only cause two martinis and a lunch.

00:49:47
Speaker 2: Which is so adorable, right, Yeah, And so then.

00:49:49
Speaker 1: They they she's going to the office to meet her to talk about outfits, and she walks in on Samantha belowing her package delivery guy. I think she says, worldwide, package wide.

00:50:04
Speaker 3: And he's Monday, Wednesday, Friday or something.

00:50:07
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, and she's I think we're trying not to offend any of the major like delivery, so that we can still get our packages in life.

00:50:16
Speaker 2: And it is pretty funny.

00:50:18
Speaker 1: And Carrie like bumps into five things on her way out, which is also adorable. And then and then Samantha calls her later and says like, oh, wasn't that so funny back at the office, And Carrie's kind of, you know, stilted about it, like doesn't seem isn't like rolling with it basically, you know. And so then at a certain point Samantha says like, lighten up, you know, and Carrie's like, and then carry tries to make some jokes about like, you know, whatever, the delivery guy whatever.

00:50:47
Speaker 2: Now, then we get I don't know, there's so many things to talk about.

00:50:51
Speaker 1: Then we we eventually go to the photo shoot where like Samantha's picked these outfits that are like lingerie from the forties or whatever, at which point Stanford comes, which is so exciting because Stanford hasn't been the show for a while.

00:51:03
Speaker 2: And he's so so.

00:51:05
Speaker 1: So great and funny. Oh it's so hard to watch but also made me laugh. So he's at her apartment, she's looking through magazine. She's very focused on trying to get an outfit. He's gazing out the window and she's like, what's going on. Turns out Stanford has a boyfriend.

00:51:21
Speaker 2: It's very exciting, very exciting, very cute boy. I mean Sean. Sean's very cute. We need to get shown on the podcast. We're going to try to find him.

00:51:29
Speaker 1: His name is Sean Palmer and he plays Marcus and he's adorable and he's a dancer. And it's funny because Carrie doesn't seem that impressed by the fact that he's a dancer. Radio sitting here's a call, and I was like, why isn't Carrie more impressed by that?

00:51:45
Speaker 2: I would have thought she would be.

00:51:46
Speaker 1: But they're discussing judging when it all comes up because Stanford is afraid to tell her what he does the boyfriend does as it for a living, because he thinks she's going to judge him, which is I think, so kind of weird, but I get it we're talking about so that makes sense. And then Samantha calls and that she got her friend book to pull someone looks for her. Then they go and excitingly, Stanford and the boyfriend come to the photo shoot to see this crazy Marribou outfit and the boyfriend's.

00:52:14
Speaker 2: Adorable, and they very awkwardly.

00:52:18
Speaker 1: Tried to juggle Samantha's opinions and Carry's opinions, which really made me.

00:52:22
Speaker 2: Laugh and now I loved it, right, it was so good.

00:52:25
Speaker 1: And then they leave and Samantha ends up walking in on the boyfriend giving Stanford a blowjob, which helps her in the end come around to say, I kind.

00:52:37
Speaker 2: Of understand why.

00:52:37
Speaker 1: I guess, you know, because I walked in on them, which I thought.

00:52:41
Speaker 3: Was a really good turn that scene where he's getting the blowjob. I instinctively when she closes the door, looked at the door to see if it was the men's restroom, and it just said restroom.

00:52:58
Speaker 1: WHOA, Yeah, I can say interesting.

00:53:02
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's a whole I mean, you can go into that first.

00:53:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really interesting.

00:53:08
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:53:08
Speaker 1: I also had the weird feeling it felt like we were at Barnes and Noble.

00:53:12
Speaker 2: I'm sure we weren't, but you don't even like, you know, how we are trying to.

00:53:15
Speaker 1: Cross board things. It looked like a Barn's Noble bathroom. Sad Yeah yeah, yeah, but it was all very like I just really was, as I often am, very impressed with how the writing pulls every single story and everything.

00:53:29
Speaker 3: To get together.

00:53:32
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:53:33
Speaker 1: She calls her her weird outfit Lady Marmalade, which is funny, really good and It's also funny because I feel like we've seen Carrie in an outfit kind of like this, right, you know, like but yeah, I mean I understand that she wouldn't want to wear it on the cover of her book, but I was kind of like, that's not that shocking for Carrie.

00:53:54
Speaker 2: But I guess she's trying to say I'm different now, you know, for some reason.

00:53:59
Speaker 3: I don't exactly, so she wants to present herself as this author.

00:54:05
Speaker 1: Right, like sophisticated. I guess it's the gist of what she is going for. And then the end, I do really like what she wears, which does end up being the cover of her book, which we see now through the rest of the show, movies and the next show she's wearing like a blazer with no pants, which you know works right, like it's still sexy, but it's it's still.

00:54:26
Speaker 3: But it's not like, you know, in your face.

00:54:28
Speaker 2: Right like tarty.

00:54:30
Speaker 1: It's not tarty, yes, yes, which makes a lot of sense. So then when they there's the conversation towards the end between Samantha and Carrie which is super interesting. Basically, Carrie goes to see her and says something like, oh, it's been you know, two days and four phone calls and you know, what's what's going on in Samantha's like do we really have to do this? And Carrie's like yes, it was all super super interesting. But they kind of both apolog and Carrie does say I was judging you, and that's nice because the whole time she's been like, I'm not, I'm not pretty much jo she is, you know.

00:55:09
Speaker 2: But it's also funny because I'm like, what, I don't know, Like it's interesting, and I.

00:55:14
Speaker 1: Guess this is how it is with friends, like because she was with Richard. Samantha was with Richard for a while before this, right, but like did they forget who she was? Judy mean, because like this isn't that shocking? It doesn't seem but I guess because we're a little older now. I think they're trying to make the point that we're a little older now. And I also felt when I was watching it that this is what Michael was thinking. The public was thinking about the show.

00:55:40
Speaker 3: Oh that's true, that's true.

00:55:42
Speaker 1: Like how can they keep doing this? Like aren't they getting older?

00:55:45
Speaker 3: You know?

00:55:46
Speaker 2: Like that was the commentary.

00:55:47
Speaker 1: So he's basically trying to say to those people who are judging us, Like, this is who we are and you shouldn't judge us.

00:55:54
Speaker 2: We can do what we want, meaning women, women can do what they want to apologetically right, exactly right.

00:56:00
Speaker 1: But it's interesting and I, you know, fully forgotten this that Samantha goes through this whole kind of thing of being judged and having to stand up for herself, like all blow.

00:56:08
Speaker 2: Who I want what I want?

00:56:10
Speaker 1: You know, And then Carrie has to say, you know, who am I going to be? Am I going to wear this tardy outfit or wear a clothes or not wear cloathing? You know, it's very interesting, It's very interesting.

00:56:19
Speaker 2: I like it.

00:56:20
Speaker 1: Charlotte has a kind of a less interesting storyline, though I also really liked it. I love when we're in the book bookstore. I'd forgotten about this because I think it's I think we've been Oh no, I think I wanted shopping with carry in a grocery store last episode or previous episode.

00:56:35
Speaker 2: There's a lot of like Charlotte out in the world.

00:56:37
Speaker 1: But she's sad because this is in between Trey and Harry, which you know is an interesting time for her, and she's just harping on that she has to start again, and start again, and start again. So the funniest part is when she goes to the self help part of the bookstore, which I fully relate to fully relate to that.

00:56:53
Speaker 2: I was like, oh lord, what book is she going to get?

00:56:56
Speaker 1: So she wants to get this book called starting Over yet Again, but she's embarrassed, so she goes home and orders it on Amazon. Because we also see Carrie on Amazon talking about two days shipping or whatever, which is just mind boggling.

00:57:13
Speaker 3: And now it's like, you press send and it's at.

00:57:16
Speaker 1: Your door exactly the same day because it has taken over our lives, as we all know, strangely. And then so Charlotte, Charlotte gets embarrassed when she's in the self help section with all the crying women, and so she's like, travel Travel.

00:57:33
Speaker 2: I know, I love that, me too, and I don't know.

00:57:36
Speaker 3: And that crying woman who's like, that's a great book.

00:57:39
Speaker 2: I read that book.

00:57:40
Speaker 1: That's the final straw, where Charlotte's like, yeah, no, I can't be like this crying woman crying in the bookstore. So she goes home, she orders it in the privacy of her own home. The book comes and then her Amazon says, because you bought this black about starting over, We're gonna show you some other books that you might like, such as Reservation.

00:58:02
Speaker 2: For one, at which point I.

00:58:05
Speaker 1: Charlotte takes the self help book and throws it out her window and then adorably it lands on the sidewalk and another woman picks it up and says that the voiceover Carrie tells us that this woman is contemplating a divorce, but considers this book falling from the sky aside from God and doesn't divorce. I'm like, it could have been aside from God to divorce.

00:58:25
Speaker 2: Right, It's all very I love that. It's really good. It's really good.

00:58:29
Speaker 1: And then with the Samantha part, it's all just her struggling with well. First of all, I did think that the scene with the delivery guy was pretty funny and adorable.

00:58:40
Speaker 3: I did too, I didn't.

00:58:42
Speaker 1: Remember it right, And it's funny to see Samantha you don't know if she's going to succeed.

00:58:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, And also the way she's so forward with him that you're like, is he you go? Is he going to run away?

00:58:57
Speaker 2: Yeah?

00:59:00
Speaker 3: And it's like, now.

00:59:01
Speaker 2: He's a guy totally totally. When she makes it clear that she's willing to do it right now. He's like, okay, so funny.

00:59:09
Speaker 1: So that's what Carrie walks in on Samantha giving the delivery guy a blowjob in her own office.

00:59:16
Speaker 2: Which is kind of funny.

00:59:17
Speaker 1: And then at lunch, Carry makes a joke and then oh, with the rest of us, and and then is it is it me?

00:59:26
Speaker 2: Someone's like, who, what's going on?

00:59:28
Speaker 3: You know? And then you are so innocent in that scene.

00:59:33
Speaker 2: I know, Oh, Charlotte, Charlotte, so innocent.

00:59:36
Speaker 3: I love Charlotte. Charlotte's just yeah, because she's just like wants everything to be perfect and romantic, and.

00:59:43
Speaker 2: You know it's true.

00:59:45
Speaker 3: I think there's Charlotte and everyone, but you know.

00:59:48
Speaker 2: I hope so I think yeah, I mean I think there's some of all the characters in everywhere. That's why they're good. That's why they're good.

00:59:54
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And then Samantha is like changing the subject, egged, and then Miranda and Charlotte trying to figure out what's going on, and then there's this whole Carrie thing, and then Carrie says, she looks like a hooker. I'm just reading my it's funny sometimes to read this, and then she walks in on Stanford and the Boyfriend, which is I think a great way to end it because she has and it's just.

01:00:21
Speaker 3: Like it's so in your face, and it's like.

01:00:23
Speaker 1: Oh right, it's great. Yeah, it's not great to walk in on people.

01:00:28
Speaker 4: Yeah.

01:00:40
Speaker 1: And then there's the Miranda storyline. Oh my god, so good.

01:00:44
Speaker 3: Oh that is so rich. That's you could.

01:00:47
Speaker 1: Really like I could also just like, I feel like you could cut Miranda's storyline all together, and it's just like a perfect little short film. You know, when you were there with Cynthia shooting the scene, you're scene when you're the person who works at Barnes and Noble, did you guys do it a lot?

01:01:05
Speaker 2: Do you remember like what what went on?

01:01:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, we did it a bunch of times, and yeah, because they have to get the different camera act, but yeah, it was. It was very fun. I knew I know Cynthia, her kid, and my son and her son Sam. Right, we're in the same Hebrews school class. Oh my god. Yeah, fun, that's fun.

01:01:29
Speaker 1: I knew we knew you in a couple of different ways where I could remember all of them.

01:01:33
Speaker 2: That's really neat. That's good. It's always fun to know people. Then get to work with them.

01:01:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the best. It was so fun. And I still every time I walk by that Barnes and Noble at Union Square, I think of that episode.

01:01:45
Speaker 1: Oh that's nice. I love Barnes and Noble. I'm so glad that they're still there, same when we thought they were going to.

01:01:51
Speaker 2: Go, Oh yeah, that was scary. I know, but they're fine. I feel like books, so they're doing great, right.

01:01:58
Speaker 3: I think I think a lot of old stuff. People are getting sick of this crap.

01:02:02
Speaker 2: I think you're in and I like to I like, I don't want to touch something too. Definitely, definitely, definitely.

01:02:10
Speaker 1: I like a real book in my hands if I'm going to read, if I'm going to try to find time in the day to read, I want to hold it.

01:02:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.

01:02:18
Speaker 1: Let's just talk for a second about when Cynthia goes to weight watchers. I'm so glad you have actual experience, because when they were talking about how the woman writes her weight down correctly or incorrectly or whatever, I was like, wow, is this what you.

01:02:30
Speaker 2: Actually go through at weeks?

01:02:32
Speaker 3: Oh my god? Yes. And then I used to be like, I'm wearing jeans and that's like two pounds and my god, people are taking off their shoes and their socks and their jacket and their shirt and and it's it's so you have no power, like you're you get on and there's someone behind there and like and for them not to you know, they just write it down, you know, and you're like, what are they thinking? They're thinking is gonna loser? You gained two pounds, you know. It's just it's so humiliated. I mean, part of it is the humiliation, like you don't want to disappoint. Yeah, it's just that, Oh my god, that card made me crazy because I had so many of those cards my mother took me when I was a teenager.

01:03:27
Speaker 2: What yes, Oh my god. And you survived, You survived amazing.

01:03:34
Speaker 3: And I have to tell you it really was truly the only way to lose weight when you had to eat like that for the rest of your life.

01:03:44
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.

01:03:45
Speaker 3: And some people.

01:03:46
Speaker 2: Didn't and everything like yeah.

01:03:48
Speaker 3: Well no, they didn't have points. Then it was like calories and how many calories you had, and you have to write everything down and it was just like, oh.

01:03:57
Speaker 2: Did they talk about exercise or no?

01:04:00
Speaker 3: Not in the seventies, right right, right, But yeah, now it's that, but then they did because remember he had says we have an activity point.

01:04:11
Speaker 1: Yes, oh my god, yes that's why.

01:04:14
Speaker 3: Yes.

01:04:15
Speaker 1: Wow, well congratulations that you survived being taken to.

01:04:19
Speaker 2: Weight watchers as a team.

01:04:20
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

01:04:21
Speaker 2: That would be thought of now as like bad. Yeah, I mean, like.

01:04:26
Speaker 3: You know, abuse. But yeah, now we went, my mother went, We all went. Yeah.

01:04:30
Speaker 1: Oh so she was going and she took it. Yeah, yeah, got it, God, I got it. Well that makes sense because also that, as you're saying, is.

01:04:37
Speaker 2: The only way that we was the only way? Yeah, right, right, right. It's interesting.

01:04:41
Speaker 1: I have a fourteen year old, almost a fifteen year old, and I work so hard not to talk about body things, just to like try, and I don't even know if I'm succeeding or not succeeding, because it just takes so much work in my head, right not to say my own thoughts about my own body. I obviously think she a goddess, a beautiful goddess.

01:05:01
Speaker 3: Right, It's so hard.

01:05:03
Speaker 1: It's so hard, And lately I've been thinking like, if I'm gonna there's too much information, but I'll go ahead. If I'm gonna go out in the world, like we're going to Hawaii soon for her birthday, and I have a sort of different skirts I will wear with my swimsuits, right, like swim skirts.

01:05:17
Speaker 2: But at home we have a pool.

01:05:18
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I'm just gonna show my cellula because I need her to feel like I'm fine with it because this is normal normal anybody cell you, right, But I have to force myself to do it. Do you know what I mean?

01:05:30
Speaker 2: I don't remember really hard.

01:05:32
Speaker 1: Don't put anything over it, don't put anything on, don't just walk down there in your babysuit, because you want her to feel fine, right, And it's.

01:05:39
Speaker 3: Not that it's like all learned behavior. Your behavior, your feelings are all learned, that's right, Because I mean I'm in Provincetown.

01:05:49
Speaker 5: There are fun there are what I live here part of the ear, and there are you see these women walking on the beach, every body type you can imagine, yay, no one cares amazing, And you know, part of me is like, oh my god, and then the other part's like good for you, you know.

01:06:09
Speaker 1: Definitely, definitely it's hard. It's hard because it has been a whole many, many long years of life.

01:06:16
Speaker 3: It's how we're when we were brought out.

01:06:17
Speaker 1: I mean, come on, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's interesting. But I but that's what I love about this storyline. And I mean also Carrie's dealing with it in terms of perception of what she wears, right, Like, there's so much body images you talk about, like what do people think of us in terms of what does our body look like? What are we wearing on our body? What does it all mean about us? You know, it's a lot.

01:06:41
Speaker 3: And also I think there's a lot a theme of you know, I know it's all about you know, body and judgment, but I think there's also an underlying theme of what's appropriate mm hm, you know, what's the appropriate thing to do? And and that that means, you know, you have the general public what's appropriate, and then you have what's appropriate for me. You know, what makes me comfortable. This is what is appropriate for me, and this makes me feel good.

01:07:13
Speaker 2: And that takes time to learn.

01:07:15
Speaker 3: Oh duh, yeah, one hundred interesting.

01:07:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I feel like I'm still learning, you know, and you change over time obviously too, so you feel comfortable about Yeah, it's super interesting. But I do love the Marna storyline and I love that guy so much, and I'm kind of sad when he's like, we can't see each other anymore.

01:07:33
Speaker 2: He's basically what she says.

01:07:35
Speaker 1: I should just spit it out what she says to him because he's been going down on.

01:07:40
Speaker 2: Her, and then he comes back kissing her.

01:07:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, he kisses her right away and to her it looks like he's been eating a donut, but it's actually her, right, And then Samantha, so, what's my name?

01:07:51
Speaker 2: Maret, Charlotte. I have this whole thing about like there should be a tissue by the bank.

01:07:56
Speaker 1: I mean like, wow, wow, that's interesting to me, Like I don't know how you get someone to do that. That's crazy, but it's interesting, very Charlotte. And she so she does. Sure, they're they're like, you should say something to him, so she does. She says like, oh, I can't kiss you because I'm all over you. It's me, it's me. She's trying to make it like about herself. And then he's like, you know, well I can't see you anymore because now I'm self conscious, and you know, now I've got to eat.

01:08:23
Speaker 2: She says, oh.

01:08:24
Speaker 1: He says I want to pop pie or no, I want seven, because he's already said he overeats when he feels criticized. It's all very Yeah, it's so deeply layered, you know. And then Miranda has now criticized him, even though she was trying not to, and he says, I don't think we should see each other anymore, which is so sad.

01:08:42
Speaker 3: I know, it's so sad the way he covers himself up and leaves, because yeah, we've all been like that sheet is protecting.

01:08:52
Speaker 1: Him definitely, and you really believe him, like he's very good. And then in the end we find out so good. We find out that Miranda now has to go to the infamous weight Watchers, which is on twenty three third Street. Pretty funny, pretty funny, But I did really love the whole thing.

01:09:10
Speaker 2: And I'm kind of wondering now.

01:09:12
Speaker 1: And occasionally I noticed this with our show, but it's like, you know, there's certain conventions with each show. I don't know that we ever hear about weight Watchers again, Like, I'm curious.

01:09:21
Speaker 2: Now, do we do we ever hear about it? Do we not hear about it?

01:09:24
Speaker 3: That's right?

01:09:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, I should ask Cynthia. She would know.

01:09:28
Speaker 1: But that's the joy of rewatching too, because it's all new to me.

01:09:33
Speaker 2: In a way.

01:09:33
Speaker 1: I mean, I remember things like when we started the bookstore. I remember that that I'm wearing a big ruff laur and pink pony because that's a breast cancer thing. That they would sell a different version of that sweater every year and all the proceeds would go to breast cancer research, which are so great. And I think they stopped for a while, and then I think they reissued it and they called us sink, could we use Kristen's picture from the show back in the day. And I was like, of course, because it's still from breast cancer. You know, it's so great. But I think they stopped for a while, which is sad because they're so so cute.

01:10:06
Speaker 2: And I think I have them at home in my closet somewhere.

01:10:09
Speaker 1: The originals, you know, because I love me too, me too. Okay, wait, I have a pressing question for you. Are you a Charlotte duty Gold.

01:10:20
Speaker 3: I think I'm a little Charlotte Eye, little Charlotte Gay. I know, I think I'm Charlotte in the you know this always wonder. She wonders a lot, you know, and I love that she's curious. She definitely seeks out different ways to make herself feel better, like, yes, I am definitely, and and that like trying to like loving romance and stuff. Love that, Yes, I love like like candle lit dinners and yeah, I love that.

01:11:00
Speaker 2: That's adorable. I would not go that.

01:11:03
Speaker 3: Yes, and I make like I like.

01:11:08
Speaker 1: That's very Charlotte, very sweet. I mean the obvious choice would be a Miranda type of a vibe. Is that because that's your comedy kind of like historic, right.

01:11:20
Speaker 3: But you know there's another part of me, you know, there's a little that I don't show to everyone. I don't show everyone my Charlotte.

01:11:28
Speaker 2: Oh, I got it, I got it. I love it. That's really nice to say it.

01:11:31
Speaker 3: Well.

01:11:32
Speaker 1: I think the other thing about you, which is interesting is that I do think that the comedy inside of you is what leads your thinking. But you really are an actor more so than just a comedian, you know, and I think that that is what is clear if you talk to you at all, you know what I'm saying, You're more actor.

01:11:50
Speaker 3: You know, Johan Rivers studied anthropology, like you really are studying the human condition. And so when you're acting, I mean, acting is about listening. Would is why a lot of comedians aren't great at it. But it's it's about listening, but it's also about you know, encompassing someone another, another person and what their motivations are and what they're you know, and that to me is really fun. That is really fun.

01:12:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is really fun. I agree. It's hard, but it's fun.

01:12:21
Speaker 1: It's challenging and it never gets boring, which but neither just stand up because stand up is also really really hard.

01:12:27
Speaker 3: I love it.

01:12:28
Speaker 2: Oh so scary to think about.

01:12:30
Speaker 1: I have so much respect for anyone who can get up there and make people laugh.

01:12:33
Speaker 2: You know, well, you are a joy. Thank you for so much fun. Oh, thank you. I'm looking forward to it.

01:12:41
Speaker 1: Yes, I got to keep both children, you know, engaged, that's my.

01:12:46
Speaker 4: Yes.

01:12:46
Speaker 3: But it'll be.

01:12:47
Speaker 2: Great, it'll be great.

01:12:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so much fun.

01:12:51
Speaker 2: Bye, have fun

01:13:00
Speaker 3: And