Glamorous Musician And Actress Showcases Leg Hair And Sweat Stains On Venice Film Festival Red Carpet

00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hey there, folks. It is Wednesday, September 9th, and I will admit that we were doing some stories earlier today that were a little heavy, and they were kind of getting to me. So I asked my dear Amy Robach, hey, baby, we got to do something lighter. I am not going to do another story today that's heavy, so give me something light. And you know what she came up with? Women's armpit hygiene. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Yes, this is where we are. This is actually quite interesting.

00:00:30
Speaker 2: Yes, actually, and this, I didn't realize, this has been a thing for the past couple of years. And I will actually say, this rings true. I've got two daughters. One is about to turn 24. The other one is 20. You've got a 13-year-old.

00:00:45
Speaker 1: Yes, who just started shaving. Oh, wow, she wouldn't want me to say that. But yes, in recent years.

00:00:51
Speaker 2: Body hair is an issue. It has been a focus of conversation. And I saw a headline that said, Definitely was interesting. Phoebe Bridgers. I think most younger women would know who that person is. I will acknowledge you and I weren't necessarily familiar with her. I texted my daughters and they were like, duh, LOL, of course. Yes, they knew exactly who she was. Phoebe Bridgers. She is an artist, a musician, who also is now being featured in a new film. We'll get into all of that. But she's making headlines now. I'll actually read the headline from People Magazine. Phoebe Bridgers praised by fans for showing leg hair and pit stains at glamorous Venice Film Festival.

00:01:41
Speaker 1: Okay.

00:01:41
Speaker 2: Your immediate reaction? Ew. So it's funny you say that because if you look in the comments section, that is something that many people chimed in with.

00:01:51
Speaker 1: Okay, wait. Let's start with pit stains versus armpit hair.

00:01:58
Speaker 2: Versus leg hair.

00:01:59
Speaker 1: Okay. Now let's go with the pit stains. Let me just separate it for a second. Sure. That's never attractive. Is it?

00:02:05
Speaker 2: I wouldn't think it is.

00:02:06
Speaker 1: Not attractive. It seems, yes, it happens. It's natural, but I don't think anybody would want it or would want to advertise it. Is that fair?

00:02:17
Speaker 2: So I can only speak from my personal experience and maybe even from my generation. And many of you who are listening might be in that category. But yes, I'm somebody who does appreciate and lean in on antiperspirant. I like to smell good and I don't like pit stains. They ruin clothing. Let's just start there. Once you have a pit stain, like I could have my favorite white tee. And if I'm not careful, it will soon be in the garbage bin because no one likes a yellow stained undershirt. And that's why men wear undershirts, is it not?

00:02:52
Speaker 1: Okay. And so we are on the same page. Yes to your question and- We're all in agreement that we don't celebrate, encourage, or want pit stains. That's not anti-anybody or anti-this young lady.

00:03:05
Speaker 2: No.

00:03:05
Speaker 1: It's nobody wants that. So with the headline that says she's praised for showing it, I mean, it's just natural. It's what's there. But she's not necessarily saying, hey, everybody, this is the thing to do now.

00:03:17
Speaker 2: Right? I don't know. I don't know what she's saying. She actually, it was a little behind the scenes. So she looks glamorous and beautiful and sexy.

00:03:25
Speaker 1: But she made a choice.

00:03:26
Speaker 2: But she made a choice to show, and it is very significant, this massive sweat stain that was emerging in her. It looked like kind of a linen, I'm sure, ridiculously expensive, gorgeous see-through dress. And she showed behind the scenes, yeah, here's like what you see on the red carpet. Here's what's actually.

00:03:44
Speaker 1: Happening behind the scenes. Okay, then that's funny. Okay, in that context, that's funny.

00:03:47
Speaker 2: Then I appreciate the fact.

00:03:48
Speaker 1: I appreciate, okay. Yes. All right, all right.

00:03:50
Speaker 2: That she's like, guess what? This happens to all of us.

00:03:53
Speaker 1: I love that. Okay, that's cool.

00:03:54
Speaker 2: Even when we're supposed to be We've got the glam squads. We've got no money spared on the designer giving me this dress and this look and whatever and still look at me with sweat stains. And look, some of the comments were, your sweat stains make me feel seen. Other people wrote, people's princess. So yes, she is being praised for the fact that she was willing to show.

00:04:17
Speaker 1: Willing to show. There it is.

00:04:19
Speaker 2: I'm just like you.

00:04:20
Speaker 1: So there's nowhere on, there's no red carpet picture where you see that. She was just giving you some behind the scenes stuff. Okay, that's kind of cool.

00:04:26
Speaker 2: She chose to show that. Yes. And so that was part of... Part of that was, I think, just kind of exposing something that we've I think all of us have been in a situation. You and I were even discussing this the other day. I was I chose to wear a silk shirt. Now it was black, so it didn't show anything. But I said to you. wow, confirmation, silk, don't breathe. And you and I were laughing about when it's ever okay to wear silk because it is an unforgiving fabric, as is linen, which it looks like her dress was. And I do think there is some sort of, yes, people take, it's not that we're taking any pleasure in seeing her go through a wardrobe malfunction, but it's just kind of an affirmation. No matter how much you spend, no matter how much time you take, no matter how many people are you know, making sure you look your finest. Sometimes biology just takes over and we're all the same.

00:05:22
Speaker 1: We're all human. Yes. Okay. That part's okay. The hair thing. Let's get to the hair thing.

00:05:28
Speaker 2: So, yes, I think, look, and I can get into a larger issue about the hair thing because that was sweat stains. Now, hair is also a part of this because in the same Venice Film Festival, Phoebe Bridgers, a few days earlier, I believe, before this latest post where she showed her sweat stains She was seen, and this was a choice, she made a choice to wear an outfit where she had a slit, or no, it was just actually just a shorter skirt. And it's a very demure, actually buttoned up look, a black suit. And she, if you zoom in on her Gucci suit at the film festival, you zoom in, you see she has, now she's blonde, so there are lighter hairs, but you can see she has full-blown leg hair. Like, as in, she hasn't shaved her legs in months. And that absolutely was a choice. And a lot of people have made comments on that. And then it goes into the whole armpit hair, leg hair, why do women have to shave? And people are really weighing in on this.

00:06:38
Speaker 1: Which way?

00:06:40
Speaker 2: It runs the gamut.

00:06:41
Speaker 1: And only give me women's comments. Yeah.

00:06:44
Speaker 2: Okay, well, I do think that this is a generational thing because my daughters do not have the same standards, I guess maybe I should say, that I do. I was raised, they don't care as much. I've actually seen both of my daughters. I don't think they'll mind. They're not as attentive to their underarm hair or their leg hair the way I am. I shave every day. Single time I'm in the shower.

00:07:13
Speaker 1: Okay, but every time in the shower versus every other day in the shower.

00:07:18
Speaker 2: Fine.

00:07:18
Speaker 1: Every three days in the shower. Once a week in the shower is different from going months and making a choice to just... Correct. I'm not a shaver.

00:07:26
Speaker 2: Correct.

00:07:26
Speaker 1: Correct. So what category do the girls fall in? You fall in versus... Phoebe falls in.

00:07:33
Speaker 2: I fall in on every day or every other day. And in the wintertime, I might make it every couple of days. But I actually don't like the way it feels. Just as me personally. Even if I weren't in a relationship, I still like the feeling of smooth legs. That is a personal choice. And I understand that's the whole concept, right? This is a personal choice. However, a lot of people have strong feelings about this.

00:08:00
Speaker 1: Both ways?

00:08:01
Speaker 2: Yes, some people think that that's just a part of being feminine. It's a part of being silky and smooth and all of that. And then there are plenty of folks who say that this is a 20th century thing that's been imposed on women and body hair is natural and why are we going against nature? But I'm curious just what men think. Is there a scenario, let me ask you this, in which men.

00:08:31
Speaker 1: Next, you can move on to whatever you wanted to say. In which men... If you want to get it out, go ahead.

00:08:39
Speaker 2: I don't know that I would even ask you if you think it's attractive because I already know your answer. But is there a way that it's not unattractive? Is there any way you could embrace a woman's just natural body? Okay.

00:08:59
Speaker 1: With hair. And you'll respect where I'm coming from on this. It's not being rude to you or disrespectful of our relationship. Let's just go through folks who are generally considered, a consensus, some of the most beautiful women on the planet.

00:09:12
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:09:12
Speaker 1: Go with a Gisele Bundchen or Halle Berry. Yeah. Like, just think of, like, who else can you come up with? Who's the latest person Pete Davidson's dating? Like, whatever. Go into... Now, put underarm hair on them and leg hair. Do you react to that woman any differently? Is she any less beautiful? Is she any less feminine? If we see Giselle at the Olympics in the opening ceremony doing that long catwalk, if we see her legs exposed and there's hair on them, if we see her with her hands on her hips like she famously walks and you see underarm hair, Is she any less sexy any yet less desirable or attractive? It depends. Depends on what, though, baby?

00:10:06
Speaker 2: And some would say that's because of societal norms that have been imposed on all of us since birth. Like, you've been exposed to clean-shaven... I mean, women get Brazilian waxes. not for their own, oh, this feels great. This isn't painful. This doesn't create a significant amount of work.

00:10:27
Speaker 1: I still don't know how you all can go in there and sit like that in front of a complete stranger. But go ahead.

00:10:34
Speaker 2: No, but it's just interesting. There's that extreme where all body hair is removed. And you think about from like women who have been sexualized, and I say this, they made a choice. But if it's anyone who is an adult film actress or a, I don't know, even when I watched Love Island, those girls walking around in their bikinis, there isn't a hair to be seen. That takes work. That takes maintenance. That takes practice. pain management. It's expensive. And yet that is what we create as the societal norm of beauty and sexiness. And so, yes, we all look at that. We're used to that. That's what our expectations are. And is it because it's been imposed on us from like movies and pictures and all of that where that equal hairless equals sexy for women?

00:11:23
Speaker 1: Okay. Imposed is a tough word for me. We've evolved into something. Isn't that not okay to where we have evolved into what societal norms are? Accept or not go against them, and that's fine. That is perfectly fine what everybody's doing. It's also perfectly fine to have a preference. And if somebody wants to start some revolution to where we want to turn completely back and make that the feminine thing, make that the most attractive, the most sensual, the most, right? That's okay. Start your revolution. I'm here for it.

00:12:02
Speaker 2: The revolution has been going on for some time.

00:12:05
Speaker 1: Wait, to go which way?

00:12:07
Speaker 2: Well, in a lot of feminist circles, it's a choice to say, I refuse to shave. I refuse to Use deodorant. You see women who won't deal with maybe upper lip hair or underarm hair or leg hair, and that's okay. It's been interesting, though. There's always a reaction, though, to it, and that is interesting.

00:12:29
Speaker 1: It's a reaction not to some degree, Rob, just to each his or her own. If you want to do that, knock yourself out. Fellas, if you are attracted to that, knock yourself out. Like, what else does anyone chime in about?

00:12:41
Speaker 2: I would hope so, but could I just, for fun, read a couple of the comments from this article?

00:12:46
Speaker 1: Oh, that's not a big deal.

00:12:49
Speaker 2: Here's one. Women's sweat and women's bodies are full of hair. We've all been brainwashed by razor companies and misogynists that women showing hair means they are dirty. In many cultures and in many different centuries, this wasn't the case. Just because someone doesn't submit to your expectations of them doesn't mean anything about them. It means more about you and your bias, insecurities, and judgments.

00:13:20
Speaker 1: Or preferences. Correct. Like, what are we talking about? We make it a negative thing. It's not a big deal. Knock yourself out.

00:13:28
Speaker 2: That's one woman.

00:13:29
Speaker 1: What's the problem here? This is not an issue. It gets turned into, it's so personal.

00:13:34
Speaker 2: Right.

00:13:35
Speaker 1: Like, something's wrong with you for not being attracted to me and my hairy ass. Who cares?

00:13:39
Speaker 2: Exactly.

00:13:39
Speaker 1: Knock yourself out. That's what you do. This is what I like. We are not compatible. Let's move on. It's fun. I think that's a good.

00:13:48
Speaker 2: Way to look at it. Another woman wrote, will she be posting pics of her soiled underwear next, provided she bothers wearing underwear? Poor hygiene is not a flex. So literally, it runs again. And these are women who are commenting.

00:14:02
Speaker 1: Of course it is.

00:14:03
Speaker 2: Another woman, pit stains are always unattractive on anyone.

00:14:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. And we're in agreement. That's 100% across the board, right?

00:14:10
Speaker 2: I mean, look, we have seen plenty of men. That's why linen, they say, doesn't travel well. Like, if you are in a hot environment, I know we're all led to believe that linen breathes it shows massive pit stains and wrinkles. It's not necessarily great.

00:14:23
Speaker 1: Where do you wear linen? Where are you supposed to?

00:14:26
Speaker 2: In warm environments, and yet that's when you sweat the most. So I don't understand. I've actually always had a complicated relationship with linen and a very complicated relationship with silk, as I just mentioned earlier.

00:14:37
Speaker 1: Man, you got it good. Those are the tough relationships you've had.

00:14:40
Speaker 2: Yes, linen and silk.

00:14:41
Speaker 1: With materials.

00:14:41
Speaker 2: It's tough, right? Someone else writes, gross. Why do these stars go backwards when they get attention?

00:14:48
Speaker 1: Um, I, I, you know, that's not, I understand.

00:14:52
Speaker 2: Uh, that's nice. But look, this is interesting. It reminded me, um, of a campaign that was on the New York city subways. Do you remember this? This was two years ago. Dove tackled underarm taboo with a New York city subway campaign. And they, every time I walked on the subway, I saw a woman beautiful, like all different walks of life. but opening up her arm like she was holding on like a strap hanger on a New York City subway in varying degrees of armpit hair. And I have to tell you, I just think I'm a product of my generation. I had a very difficult time staring at different women's armpit hair. while I was on the subway. Does that make me a bad person or a non-feminist?

00:15:36
Speaker 1: Yes. It does? Yes. Come on. You got to support everything the women do, everything that happens, even armpit hair and whatever else. All right. Look, that's the thing, Robes. It's okay for people to have differences. But we can talk about it without criticizing this young lady for what she was doing. And just because it's not your choice, it doesn't mean you're anti her choice. It's okay for us to be different. That's the thing. We always think we have to take a side. And if somebody's not on yours, then they're your enemy. Folks, it's okay. Knock yourself out. It's not my preference. Ropes, hairy legs.

00:16:11
Speaker 2: No.

00:16:12
Speaker 1: If you want to grow out your arm... Wait, we won't talk about your armpit hair. We'll talk about your leg hair. We'll stick with your leg hair. If you want to do that, it's something we need to talk about as a couple. Okay?

00:16:22
Speaker 2: I actually agree with you. Because if you were to shave your legs, that would be something we would need to talk about as a couple.

00:16:30
Speaker 1: Okay, if we flip this, is that the equivalent?

00:16:34
Speaker 2: Yes.

00:16:34
Speaker 1: Is it as.

00:16:37
Speaker 1: Yes. I guess.

00:16:38
Speaker 2: I'm not a fan.

00:16:40
Speaker 1: The social norm. Unless you're an Olympic swimmer.

00:16:42
Speaker 2: Correct.

00:16:43
Speaker 1: You should not be shaving.

00:16:44
Speaker 2: For me, that's my personal preference. I would not like you shaving your body hair. That would not be attractive to me.

00:16:51
Speaker 1: What about generally for women? Would that be a thing? Like, generally, would they agree with what you're saying?

00:16:54
Speaker 2: If you like masculine men, I would say that probably, again, with the acceptance.

00:16:59
Speaker 1: Oh, man, you just said masculine men. You just introduced a whole new.

00:17:02
Speaker 2: Can of worms, man. I'm just trying to be honest. Like, that's just my preference.

00:17:06
Speaker 1: Stop being honest. You're going to get us.

00:17:07
Speaker 2: That's my preference. Would you believe, though, when we come back, this debate actually rose to a fever pitch... 27 years ago with a very unlikely Oscar-winning actress. We'll explain when we come back. Welcome back, everyone, to Amy and TJ. How does this feel? It's a much lighter subject. Still controversial, but a little bit of fun.

00:17:38
Speaker 1: I'm relaxed. Thank you for this, sweetheart. I needed this. What did you call them? Palate cleansers, right?

00:17:44
Speaker 2: A palate cleanser. But still interesting and I think worth discussing, but I don't think I realize this. This conversation exploded in 1999 with Julia Roberts. Do you remember this?

00:18:01
Speaker 1: Not at all.

00:18:01
Speaker 2: I did not. So she showed off her unshaven underarms at the London premiere of one of my favorite rom-coms ever, Nodding Hills. I did not know this fun fact, but she actually is credited with changing the public perception of women's body hair because she showed up on the red carpet. And you could see that she had armpit hair. She did not shave her underarms. And people went wild. And the fact that we're still talking about this now, pit stains, leg hair, armpit hair on women, the fact that Dove felt the need to put an entire campaign out two years ago. because they say 80% of women believe that they've been judged by their underarms. Okay, we're still talking about it, but we were talking about it in 1999. I love that you don't even remember it. Neither do I, by the way.

00:19:03
Speaker 1: Because, Vero, you just said something, changed perceptions. Did she?

00:19:07
Speaker 2: She didn't.

00:19:07
Speaker 1: What changed?

00:19:08
Speaker 2: She had people talking about it.

00:19:09
Speaker 1: Okay, but what is the understanding? I don't know if anybody would have a survey on this. How many women today, how many adult women are going about not shaving their underarms.

00:19:21
Speaker 2: I don't know if we have that, but they say, this is what Dove came up. They did a big extensive research study survey about this. They said 50, so 80% of women believe that society promotes an ideal underarm. The ideal underarm should be hairless, smooth, odorless, and even toned. Okay, fine.

00:19:45
Speaker 1: Sounds like a nice underarm.

00:19:46
Speaker 2: Right? So 56% of women say they judge. themselves because of the state of their underarms. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

00:19:55
Speaker 1: Women will freak out. You got a little stubble sometimes. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

00:20:00
Speaker 2: 82% of women, according to Dove's survey, feel embarrassed by their underarms. And that's why we're talking about it. And so they did this whole campaign, hashtag free the pits. And they were basically saying no matter what they look like, all women deserve to feel confident about their underarms without judgment. It is kind of crazy in the world we're living in with all the problems we have that this is something that significant that that many women are consumed about. They actually said in this survey, 60% of women admit that they judge other women about their underarms. I kind of think that's probably higher than what's being said.

00:20:42
Speaker 1: Took the words right out of my mouth.

00:20:44
Speaker 2: I'm going to go with 90% of women. I think the only women who don't judge other women about their underarms are women who decided to not give a shit about their underarms. And like, that's an okay position to take. You know, it's one of those things. This is, it's one of those, it's tough because it's biology. It's how you were born. It's, Sometimes people have thicker hair, thinner hair, razor stubble, they forgot, whatever. But it's interesting that this plays such a significant role. Do men think about their underarms? I would like to ask you.

00:21:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, does it stink or not? That's pretty much the extent of our.

00:21:21
Speaker 2: I don't even know that a lot of men even think that. You might be in the rare upper echelons.

00:21:26
Speaker 1: That's all I got. That's all we got. Do we stink? That's... Anything else I got? No, I don't. This is not something we discuss. It's not something we think about. The only time men discuss armpit hair is if one of the fellas tells the group of us that they went out with a girl who had armpit hair. That's the only time armpit hair comes up in any conversation.

00:21:50
Speaker 2: Is there ever a woman, like I'm talking about the most who would you say is the most beautiful woman on the planet?

00:21:57
Speaker 1: Ellen Mirren.

00:21:58
Speaker 2: Ellen Mirren.

00:21:58
Speaker 1: Okay.

00:22:00
Speaker 2: You just knew that that wouldn't be threatening to me.

00:22:02
Speaker 1: Angela Bassett. I'm going to keep doing this all day long.

00:22:05
Speaker 2: But okay. Now she's waving on the red carpet with a strapless dress and you can see armpit hair. Does it change her level of attractiveness to you?

00:22:13
Speaker 1: In that moment, yeah.

00:22:14
Speaker 2: Okay. And that's an honest answer.

00:22:16
Speaker 1: It is in that moment.

00:22:17
Speaker 2: And it would be for me too. And maybe that is so silly and sad and just a statement of how... I view things based on the generation I'm in and what I consider to be beauty. And maybe that's something that we should all reimagine or just recognize that that is maybe really not fair.

00:22:34
Speaker 1: But I hope that's not offensive. It's only personal preference. And the idea that we've been brainwashed into something, we just have personal preferences. And that's okay. You might look at a guy with a goatee, a guy with a particular type of mustache, a guy... who's bald. I even like a guy who shaves his head. People just have preferences. Wow, I love that guy. I love that actor. I love him. He's so good looking, but I don't like that. Oh, he just grew a mustache. Whatever. It's okay, and I just don't want it to... Nobody should be offended. It's not a criticism of. It's not a criticism of any choice anybody makes.

00:23:12
Speaker 2: And confidence is always sexy.

00:23:15
Speaker 1: That's a very good point. There are some guys who walk around, you might think, you might say skirt.

00:23:20
Speaker 2: A kilt.

00:23:20
Speaker 1: A kilt. Right, you might not think that. I wouldn't know, my God. But then the right guy walking along wearing that thing confidently, you're like, oh, I'm feeling it.

00:23:29
Speaker 2: Actually, I changed my mind.

00:23:30
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. Yeah, so you make a good point there.

00:23:32
Speaker 2: And so I think if, look, if you've got some Phoebe Bridgers. choosing to wear, and I think it was the outfit she was in, it was such a buttoned up conservative Gucci black suit that you would expect to be. It was so curated. There was nothing bohemian or free or fun or casual about it. To have that juxtaposed with hairy legs was a choice. And look, if she was making a statement, it was received. And I do think that it does take sometimes moments like that to maybe even change perceptions, or at least let you think about what or how you define beauty or sexiness or what is attractive to you. And it's okay to have a personal preference or a personal choice, but I do think it's awesome. If she felt most beautiful in her natural state without a razor, knock yourself out.

00:24:26
Speaker 1: There it is, baby. You just said it, how she felt. That's all that matters, how she felt. Yes, baby, it's a big deal for her to give other women... permission to feel that way.

00:24:37
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't feel that way. I feel most beautiful with my legs and my armpits shaved. And that's how I look at it. But I thought it was interesting. Julia Roberts was asked about that moment. This kind of is a perfect button to this story. She said, Oh yeah, that picture is vivid in my mind actually from that moment. I think I just hadn't really calculated my sleeve length and the waving and how those two things would go together to reveal a personal thing about me. So it wasn't so much a statement. as it's just a part of the statement I make as a human on the planet for myself. So she's just somebody who, yeah, doesn't shave all the time. She didn't realize that when she waved the way the sleeve was that you'd be able to see that she hadn't shaved. It was the red carpet for Notting Hill in 1999, a big London premiere of her rom-com. And I think she just thought, Well, she wasn't in a strapless dress. She wasn't in. So she figured, oh, no one's going to see my armpit.

00:25:40
Speaker 1: Who cares?

00:25:41
Speaker 2: And in that moment.

00:25:43
Speaker 1: It was an oops for her.

00:25:45
Speaker 2: Yes.

00:25:45
Speaker 1: Not a statement.

00:25:46
Speaker 2: Yeah. And that was interesting. So it made a bunch of headlines, made big waves. I don't remember it, but apparently it was a big deal. And to think that all these years later, she's laughing like, yeah, I didn't even know that I hadn't. Well, I think she knew she hadn't shaved her armpits. She just didn't realize that everyone else was going to find out as well. And I just think, look, this is it's funny that this is still something we're talking about. This is still something that is shocking. But you know what? I guess let your freak fly. Your freak flag fly. That's where we are these days.

00:26:20
Speaker 1: Right. And to each their own. Glad we had this discussion. It reminds me of something I need to put in our prenup. armpit hair. Who knew? I need to get this clarified.

00:26:29
Speaker 2: I don't think you have any concerns. Have you ever seen... There's been a little bit of stubble every now and then, but I'm... I have a good relationship with my razor.

00:26:39
Speaker 1: And I have a good relationship with you thus far. Let's keep it that way.

00:26:44
Speaker 2: With that, everyone, we always appreciate you listening to us. I'm Amy Robach, alongside TJ Holmes. We'll talk soon.