Jan. 6, 2026
Give Him a Break. It Was His First Day in Cronkite's Chair
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RSS Feed Kronkite. Rather. Now, Dokoupil. The new anchor of the CBS Evening News is off to a rough start. First day jitters are to be expected. (Still, we didn't expect them to be so evident.) But it wasn't just style, but the substance that has caught a lot of people's attention ... including Amy and T. J.’s.
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00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hey, that folks, sit is Tuesday, January sixth, and give a brother a break. Everybody has some first day jitters at work, and that certainly seemed to be the case for Tony Decoppel on his first night as head of CBS Evening News. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Rowe much anticipated this debut. Obviously it was going to get a lot of eyes, and it was going to get scrutinized. But there seems to be a consistent at least in all the reviews and all the writings about his first day.
00:00:35
Speaker 2: Well, they actually used his own words to describe his first day, which is, we've got a big problem already the first day, and we already have a big problem here at CBS.
00:00:45
Speaker 1: It's a he gave it to him.
00:00:47
Speaker 2: He actually said that on live television in the at least the first feed, the feed that we see here on the East Coast, it was all corrected for leater feeds, which is very typical and standard.
00:00:59
Speaker 1: He said it live.
00:01:00
Speaker 2: But he said it live, and there was no taking it back. And yeah, when things got a little funky technical technically speaking, he called it out and said, we've got first day, I already got big problems here at CBS.
00:01:12
Speaker 3: Who Yes, that was the headline and.
00:01:13
Speaker 1: That was a mistake. And we can say that based on the industry and all the teachings and the decades we have in it. We are going to get into this now in roles. We have to be very careful because we don't know this guy and we certainly give him whatever benefit of the doubt that he is certainly capable. So please, folks understand, all we are doing is giving you our thoughts about what we saw and what is Isn't it fair to say this is CBS even news is the lowest rated, but maybe the most respected. I mean, given the history you talk about Cronkite and Burrow and Rather and this was isn't this the most important seat even though the ratings haven't shown that over the years recent.
00:01:58
Speaker 3: Years, Yes, and you know what a lot of people why not realize that?
00:02:01
Speaker 2: But within the journalism industry, so maybe those of us who have worked and worked in network news, CBS was the gold standard for journalism excellence and really what you aimed for. And in recent years, yes, when it comes to ratings, they have struggled and they have been the also ran, and they have been not as regarded, maybe publicly, but within the industry. No matter what the ratings were, you knew you could look to CBS for doing that hard hitting investigative journalism a last sixty Minutes, even these really interesting in depth pieces on sixty on a Sunday sorry, CBS Sunday Mornings. They just have these brands that people knew they could trust for the most accurate, fullest picture possible.
00:02:49
Speaker 1: And I'm just yes to all that. Sixty Minutes is still holding on to that. CBS Sunday Mornings is still holding on to that. This seat, for whatever reason happened, hasn't been able to And it's not just a matter of ratings, we should say. I guess moves they've made over the years have kind of chipped away, And to have so many people in and out of that seat doesn't help either. But for me, you tell me the number one anchor job in this industry, You tell me the job that even as I was working my way up in the industry, it never crossed my mind that I could get into that seat. It is that is Dan Rather's, Walter Cronkite's fucking seat.
00:03:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, it is.
00:03:33
Speaker 1: It prestigious as hell. So yes, we're gonna pay attention to Tony Dekople if he's taken over that seat.
00:03:38
Speaker 3: It's a really fair point to make.
00:03:39
Speaker 2: I think any journalist who has aspirations of being in the National Forum, basically the top of your game, still wouldn't dare say, Yeah, I'm gonna be.
00:03:51
Speaker 3: The evening news anchor.
00:03:52
Speaker 2: That is just a seat that is special and held for only a few And I never had that dream because I didn't think it was possible either.
00:04:03
Speaker 1: Again, we're mourning people, it's not our lane. That's fine, but still there was not that No, weren't that many jobs in the industry that I thought.
00:04:11
Speaker 4: Nah, don't even try bottom. Yeah, and just this is just a prestigious seat. So we can honestly say we're rooting for this guy, we are rooting for this show, We're rooting for this to work. We're still a part of this industry robes that has fallen off so much that we we don't like to see ratings fall. We don't like to see some of that shine come off of these prestigious shows and networks.
00:04:39
Speaker 2: And I don't think any of us want a journalist to come off as not being at the top of his or her game at this level, because that spakes so all of us in this industry, like we're all a part of it. So if suddenly someone who shouldn't be there, doesn't deserve to be there, isn't ready for the job, it makes everybody look inept and on and so yes, just by that standard alone, I want journalists to show how smart and how well read and how curious they are in the best of ways.
00:05:13
Speaker 1: Too often on these shows, some people do get the reputation just a newsreader, just a pretty face, the hair is just right, and talking head, yes, talking heads, and we obviously know they're overwhelmingly on the network level. That's not the case. However, we see it plenty of times where there are some people on these shows who cannot anchor their way out of a paper bag if they had to. And Tony Decoppo had a couple of moments last night, and I could absolutely give him a pass because it was his first night, and know he was nervous, and he looked nervous, and he should have been nervous. But there were some moments that there are kids in college right now who know not to do some of the stuff he did.
00:05:55
Speaker 2: And look, there is a big transition from being on a morning show to doing evening news.
00:06:00
Speaker 3: When you've been.
00:06:01
Speaker 2: Able to do both, you literally have to kind of flip a switch because when you're on a morning show, it's loose. You can be silly. If you make a mistake, you can point it out and laugh at it, even though they didn't really like that. It's generally not okay to do it. But if there was in a lighter moment, you could be humble and maybe fall on your own sword and make it look like you made it's okay. Evening news, it is formal. You want someone who is authoritative, someone who is credible, someone who knows what they're saying, and who is literally leading and steering the ship.
00:06:29
Speaker 3: It's a very different position.
00:06:33
Speaker 1: And you know, you make a point two morning show, what do you also have? You have Life Savers right next to you. You got an anchor team. Heything goes wrong, everybody can cover. If you don't know how to say a name, they can jump in. He was out there flapping in the wind at times. So let's tell you what happened here. Actually, Robes, he was supposed to well in December, they made the announcement he was going to be leaving CBS Morning Show, where he's been with Gail King since twenty nineteen. So he's leaving that show. They make the announcement, Okay, getting in the gig. He was supposed to start officially January fifth. Yesterday was supposed to be his first day, but he had to start early Rose because there have to be a little breaking news over the weekend with Maduro. So he actually Tony Decoppo made an earlier debut than anticipated. You would think maybe that I would think that would help things.
00:07:17
Speaker 3: Up for Monday, almost like a trial run.
00:07:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, when there's breaking it like it's easy at this point, the news is right there, just report it. So I thought maybe he would be able to get loose and he'd be really ready to go on Monday. Now I will ropes or all in. We're going to give our just observations what we saw. And yes, he's nervous. He should be. He looked a little uncomfortable, he was leaning weird. He constantly with the papers moving. It drives me. Creek stopped shuffling papers. He did it constantly last night. These are just little titnus is fine. These are not even critiques necessarily, but someone in that office is saying, hey, change this. Get a little nervous here, keep an eye on this, don't shuffle the paper so much. Blah blah blah blah.
00:08:01
Speaker 3: But Robes.
00:08:02
Speaker 1: When we got to the editorial, that is when things got scary. And I say scary as someone as people who've been watching this industry for a long time, and folks were wondering wondering what direction CBS News was going to go. I think he gave us a couple of indications.
00:08:17
Speaker 3: He certainly did.
00:08:17
Speaker 2: There were a couple of stories of note that seemed to actually, again, did he just say that?
00:08:25
Speaker 3: And one was when he was discussing vaccinations.
00:08:28
Speaker 2: There was the Pete heg Seth interview on the Saturday Show, and then there was the conversation about the invasion of Venezuela and oil prices and why we went into Venezuela in the first place and what the aftermath might be.
00:08:42
Speaker 3: It was all a little scary.
00:08:46
Speaker 1: I it was, Okay, it makes me nervous. I hate that you. I don't want to just be so hyperbolic here, but it was, it was. It was It was alarming to see some of the things he was doing, and it wasn't on cable news.
00:09:00
Speaker 2: What I saw was, yes, more exactly what you were talking about a cable news interview, because it wasn't about being curious. It was about leading whoever you were speaking to to say something that you wanted them to say. It was less about asking a question that maybe everyone was wondering at home and instead saying, but let me get you to explain why this is actually a good thing.
00:09:26
Speaker 3: There was an agenda.
00:09:27
Speaker 1: A lot of folks will tell you that so many in the media have had an agenda for a long time. Exactly you were, and so what's the problem now we're showing you a different agenda or other side. If you want to make that argument, fine, But there weren't whole stories being told. You want to criticize an ABC and NBC for doing this, then you should be able to take it as well. Es we were looking and to be frank, folks, all the headlines were consistent about his first day. Variety's article is the one that really got our attention because they seemed to they seemed to be brutal without being They seemed to be they didn't pull any punches, I suppose, but it didn't seem mean spirited.
00:10:07
Speaker 3: It wasn't mean spirited at all.
00:10:09
Speaker 2: In fact, they just seemed to point out what we all noticed in a very factual way, and unfortunately, in doing so, it was not a positive story for Tony de Coppel or for CBS Evening News.
00:10:23
Speaker 1: I think this is the This is a line from the article that helps you understand what we're talking about here. Quote. The administration's perspective was aired so thoroughly as to raise the question of when an interview becomes a press release. That's what they wrote about the hex Seth interview. I don't know ropes. This was what it was. The story. We did another story earlier today and I only got upset after we started recording. I didn't realize how bothered I was by it. And this is just it's bothersome when it's this type of blatant and look, Tony de Coppel, for all intents and purposes, he is there. We haven't given the background. We don't have to do. We know Trump versus CBS. They paid him sixty million or he got upset about a sixty minutes interview. Paramount was bought by sky Dance was owned by the Ellisons, who are close with Trump. They hire Barry Weiss, an opinion journalist, and she is taking the place whatever direction she wants to. He looked like he was sitting there making damn sure he said everything right or he was going to get in trouble.
00:11:31
Speaker 2: Several people wrote that he looked afraid, that he had fear in his face. Now, look, he could have had fear in his face, because it's a daunting thing to take over the role of Walter Cronkite. Basically, he knows the job he has, He knows the gravity of getting a position like that, and clearly it's exciting to get it, but it's more important to keep it. And that's probably the harder of the two. Even as difficult as it is to get the job, keeping it has proven, at least at CBS to be almost harder. And so, yes, he looked afraid. So some people were saying it was as if Barry Weiss he knows the second he says the wrong thing, or does the wrong thing, or says something she doesn't like, he's out. And so that was what people were attributing the look on his face to fairly or unfairly, that's just what was written.
00:12:18
Speaker 1: You know what, We're gonna hold this stay here. As soon as we come back, We're gonna immediately get into the key moment that had us jaws dropped and we were rewinding several times to make sure we heard what we had just heard. We'll explain that moment. We'll also explain what you were saying as well, Robes big problems here at CBS. Yes, he said that. We will give you the verbatim of that fumbling moment that so many are talking about, and also let you know where CBS News, the Evening News is in the ratings and how much work they got to do. Moving forward with mister Tony.
00:12:57
Speaker 2: Di coppol, Welcome back to Amy and TJ. We are talking about the debut of the news, CBS Evening News with Tony d Copple. It officially launched on Monday night, and there are a lot of opinions about what we all saw yesterday evening and they've all kind of reached a consensus that Tony dacopple, they're concerned about whether or not he's ready for primetime, and they're more concerned perhaps about the direction the Evening News is taking with him at the helm.
00:13:40
Speaker 1: I'm okay with the I don't know if he's primetime. He's done the morning show at the network level for five six years now. He should be ready for this, so I will give him a pass on being ready for primetime.
00:13:52
Speaker 3: Is your first night, Yes, we all have to we all have rough broadcasts.
00:13:56
Speaker 1: Yes it happens.
00:13:57
Speaker 2: We've all made mistakes, and in he might know way better than to call. We'll get into what happened to call out a problem. But sometimes when you get nervous there, you just have a knee jerk reaction, and when you're on live television, you cannot take it back. So that may have been what happened, But maybe perhaps even more concerning is what happened just before that very obvious gaff that happened. He came out of a piece that was discussing what happened in Venezuela, and so then he spoke.
00:14:26
Speaker 1: To what was Jill Business correspond.
00:14:31
Speaker 2: Business correspondent, and they really did treat this as a business story, less about a political story or a controversial story, or a legal story kind of all of that was ignored and it was more a business story about gas prices, and so when he finished talking to her, he wanted to explain something to the American people who were listening.
00:14:54
Speaker 1: This is the part and I couldn't tell you after he did it, but he was setting up to a point where he looked nervous, like he knew something was coming, and he was We've done this plenty. You're so focused on the next thing that you screw up what you're doing at the time, and he just looked out of sorts as he was rapping and saying thank you to Jill, and she said something what he said, No, you're awesome, right?
00:15:15
Speaker 2: No?
00:15:15
Speaker 3: She uh? What was the word he used? It was bizarre. It was just an awkward.
00:15:22
Speaker 1: Transition, an awkward moment, and not something you're used to hearing, certainly at this desk. So he wrapped her up and then he turns to the camera for a one shot and he's not telling a story. But this is the zact precise quote and we should share it, heroes. But again, we're not actually going to interpret any of us. This is his exact quote after he rapped with the reporter about oil prices.
00:15:52
Speaker 2: So, as you just heard from Jill, we should not expect this to affect gas prices all that much, which does raise the question of exactly how now it helps the United States, and if it helps the United States at all, which is it actually about.
00:16:06
Speaker 3: Well, if you zoom.
00:16:07
Speaker 2: Out a bit, you can maybe see the outlines of an answer. For decades, Russia, China, and Iran have been rebuilding a presence in Venezuela, a base of power and influence in the hemisphere. With Maduro now out, that base of power and influence could be out too. That sounds like propaganda one oh one written by the White House. What And he looked like he knew he was doing something wrong. That was the look on his face. As a journalist, he knew he was reading talking points political talking points.
00:16:44
Speaker 1: He gave even a justification for what we did. This is how it could be beneficial to us that he could speculate all he wants. He's more than welcome to. But for us, if you say this, expert said, if you said, these political watchers now they are saying in this is a part of what's gotten him in trouble or a lot of the critique ropes is that he has gone out there and gone out of his way to promote this show and his journalism as something different.
00:17:14
Speaker 3: Can I please read his words?
00:17:16
Speaker 1: Please?
00:17:16
Speaker 3: He pledged this to viewers.
00:17:18
Speaker 2: You come first, not advertisers, not politicians, not corporate interests, and yes that does include the corporate owners of CBS.
00:17:29
Speaker 3: I report for you.
00:17:30
Speaker 2: I can promise you will be more accountable and more transparent than Cronkite or anyone else of his era.
00:17:38
Speaker 1: You gotta pump the breaks on Kronkite. You got. It's like saying, yeah, this is a better melody than Prince ever wrote. I mean, slow down. There's just some things you don't mess with. Don't challenge, don't tell me you're doing anything better than Cronkite that is going to get you immediate criticism.
00:17:54
Speaker 3: Just do better and see if they write about it.
00:17:56
Speaker 1: What was this thing he said? Make me earn it, right, he said, don't just trust me, make me earn your trust to your point there, Yes, you don't have to tell us you're better than Cronkite. We're willing to give you a shot here. We will watch. But that that line robes that entire reading of it. And when you watch him do it, it did it looked like some kind of bizarre It didn't look like it was willing, He didn't deliver it with confidence. He looked like he was being made by his teacher to apologize to the class. It was just this is just an impression. We don't know this guy, This is not personal at all. But when we've watched enough news robes and we know what we heard and what we were seeing from him in that.
00:18:43
Speaker 2: Moment, and look, our job is journalists, I want to point this out, is to question our government, is to investigate, to not just take things at face value, and certainly not to explain or justify our leader's actions. And that's what we saw, and that's what's concerning. And our job is to question who is running our country from both sides of the aisle, Republicans and Democrats. So if you want to say people are softer on this or harder on that, I get that. But the point being is you always are supposed to question, You're always supposed to be curious.
00:19:16
Speaker 3: That is our job. It is not to advocate.
00:19:18
Speaker 2: For or justify or explain why someone did something controversial. That's what's concerning about it. That's why it doesn't feel right.
00:19:27
Speaker 1: It didn't feel right, and I want to I'm trying to give this a a journalistic lean, right, Maybe do they see this as interpreting or giving a perspective You're not hearing elsewhere? Is there a perspective here he introduced it or said it as possibilities that influence that base of power could be out to. It was I don't I just it stopped. We immediately and watching this broadcast, that was the thing that we've stopped and went, what in God's name is that? And look, I'm trying to find a way to say, yo, let them do the thing. This is how they want to go about it. How that was anything other than what is being described in a lot of places. Robes and right after that, this is the thing that at least got the most headlines. Probably is as soon as he delivered that line and Robes, he flubbed the thing he did before, and he flubbed the thing he did right after, which you know.
00:20:20
Speaker 2: As a nous that is when you know something's wrong and then you mess up all around it.
00:20:24
Speaker 3: And that is exactly what happened, because.
00:20:26
Speaker 1: He was so focused on getting that right that he didn't stay in the moment of those other segments. And again we can suggest We've seen this a million times. We've done it a million times to ourselves. But right after he made that I guess declaration or giving us more context or pulling back as he said, this is where things got off the rails. Technically sure, but Robes, you want to take the verbatim here. It's kind of weird to read, but what you're about to hear, folks verbatim word for word. His next segment, it didn't go right because they had the wrong video up and he wasn't sure where to go. But this is how he handled.
00:21:02
Speaker 2: It to other news, as you just heard from Jill Well to other news. Now to Governor Wallace. No, we're going to Mark Kelly. He starts shaking his head. First day, first day, big problems here. Uh are we going to Kelly here? Or are we going to go to Jonah Kaplan Like he's literally talking to his producers on live television. Now there is four seconds of silence. That's an eternity in live television.
00:21:31
Speaker 1: It's insane.
00:21:33
Speaker 2: Then he finally says where Mark Kelly possibly demoted from his rank of captain in the navy, and then he goes on to tell the story.
00:21:39
Speaker 3: But to me, the flub.
00:21:41
Speaker 2: Yes, is making the headlines, but what preceded the flub is what actually we should be focused on.
00:21:47
Speaker 1: And I'm worried about him a little bit. Robes here Again. People have these moments. But when you're in that seat, your job, you get the big bucks right because it doesn't matter what you throw at me, the viewer is never going to know anything wrong. Watch me handle this. I am the anchor, the anchor of this all. I am running this show. We are going here, we are going here next. Oh, that's the wrong video. Let me tell you about that. You just keep it rolling.
00:22:17
Speaker 2: You say, hey, I know you guys are seeing Mark Kelly's face about me, but what we're talking about is this, and you just keep going. And I'm assuming usually if you are the CBS Evening News anchor, you are also the managing editor.
00:22:28
Speaker 3: Act like one. You need to take charge.
00:22:30
Speaker 2: I know it's tough, it's his first day on the job, but that is one of the more important parts of the job is to take charge and to lead.
00:22:40
Speaker 1: That was concerning that on this level that happened. Look, we've seen a bunch of Look I've been responded many, We've got countless.
00:22:47
Speaker 2: We have you and I were in cable news. I mean, I wouldn't, Oh my goodness.
00:22:51
Speaker 1: But that's where you learn to handle these things. It's all live. It's all live. So yes, there is a different skill set. Give him a pass there, but it is a little concerning. And four seconds, folks, doesn't seem like a long time if you're watching television and there is nothing being said on a broadcast for four seconds. Rhodes, let's show what four seconds looks like. You're ready starting Now, that's a long time. It is a long time in a broadcast. Yeah, network show. So it look, it was a rough start, and we're trying look some of this. In our job, we talk about these things. The hardest thing for us to do is to critique anything else from broadcast news because some of these people are our friends and our colleagues, and we know what they're going through. We know it, so this is not personal. Think he's going to be okay, actually rooting for him.
00:23:45
Speaker 3: He had a rough start, Yeah he did.
00:23:47
Speaker 2: And we didn't even mention the fact that when he has to follow up about vaccinations, he came at it from the perspective of anti vaxxers. He didn't say parents are going to have a lot of questions. They're going to be confused, so parents are going to have so we said, there are parents who are celebrating this. So he actually asked the follow up through the lens of anti vaxxers. That was deeply disturbing as well.
00:24:10
Speaker 1: Again, it's in some might be looking at wow. George Stephanopolis never would have asked the question that way. It's a relief to have another side represent it.
00:24:19
Speaker 2: Yes, I hear you, but then that is cable news, and if you are actually a CBS network news you there is a way to ask both. You know, for people who are celebrating and people who are concerned, what do you say to them?
00:24:30
Speaker 3: As a physician, you can acknowledge both.
00:24:33
Speaker 1: Seemed like there was possibly an agenda and if that's what they want to do, that's okay. But we're seeing what we're seeing Tony rooting for you, h really and room for that chair and rooting for a lot of people at that network network quite frankly, and there's some work to do on the CBS Evening News. I can't remember the last time they were competitive, but they've been a distant third for a long time.
00:24:53
Speaker 3: Yes, late latest ratings.
00:24:55
Speaker 2: You have here ABC seven point five million, NBC six million, n CBS at four point two million, So they do have a lot of ways to.
00:25:06
Speaker 1: Go, all right, but we will keep an eye certain this is must see TV now and you know he can't wait to get back on TV tonight to get that one behind.
00:25:14
Speaker 3: He wants redemption show. Yes, that was understandable.
00:25:16
Speaker 1: You remember that that was the best thing every time you screwed up a show.
00:25:19
Speaker 3: Yeah, wow, I get tomorrow.
00:25:20
Speaker 1: I got another chance tomorrow. So Tony, you got another chance tonight. We will be watching. Good luck to you all over there. I always appreciate you all spending some time here with us. But for my dear Amy Robock, I am t J. Holmes. You will talk to the Ulson
Speaker 1: Hey, that folks, sit is Tuesday, January sixth, and give a brother a break. Everybody has some first day jitters at work, and that certainly seemed to be the case for Tony Decoppel on his first night as head of CBS Evening News. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Rowe much anticipated this debut. Obviously it was going to get a lot of eyes, and it was going to get scrutinized. But there seems to be a consistent at least in all the reviews and all the writings about his first day.
00:00:35
Speaker 2: Well, they actually used his own words to describe his first day, which is, we've got a big problem already the first day, and we already have a big problem here at CBS.
00:00:45
Speaker 1: It's a he gave it to him.
00:00:47
Speaker 2: He actually said that on live television in the at least the first feed, the feed that we see here on the East Coast, it was all corrected for leater feeds, which is very typical and standard.
00:00:59
Speaker 1: He said it live.
00:01:00
Speaker 2: But he said it live, and there was no taking it back. And yeah, when things got a little funky technical technically speaking, he called it out and said, we've got first day, I already got big problems here at CBS.
00:01:12
Speaker 3: Who Yes, that was the headline and.
00:01:13
Speaker 1: That was a mistake. And we can say that based on the industry and all the teachings and the decades we have in it. We are going to get into this now in roles. We have to be very careful because we don't know this guy and we certainly give him whatever benefit of the doubt that he is certainly capable. So please, folks understand, all we are doing is giving you our thoughts about what we saw and what is Isn't it fair to say this is CBS even news is the lowest rated, but maybe the most respected. I mean, given the history you talk about Cronkite and Burrow and Rather and this was isn't this the most important seat even though the ratings haven't shown that over the years recent.
00:01:58
Speaker 3: Years, Yes, and you know what a lot of people why not realize that?
00:02:01
Speaker 2: But within the journalism industry, so maybe those of us who have worked and worked in network news, CBS was the gold standard for journalism excellence and really what you aimed for. And in recent years, yes, when it comes to ratings, they have struggled and they have been the also ran, and they have been not as regarded, maybe publicly, but within the industry. No matter what the ratings were, you knew you could look to CBS for doing that hard hitting investigative journalism a last sixty Minutes, even these really interesting in depth pieces on sixty on a Sunday sorry, CBS Sunday Mornings. They just have these brands that people knew they could trust for the most accurate, fullest picture possible.
00:02:49
Speaker 1: And I'm just yes to all that. Sixty Minutes is still holding on to that. CBS Sunday Mornings is still holding on to that. This seat, for whatever reason happened, hasn't been able to And it's not just a matter of ratings, we should say. I guess moves they've made over the years have kind of chipped away, And to have so many people in and out of that seat doesn't help either. But for me, you tell me the number one anchor job in this industry, You tell me the job that even as I was working my way up in the industry, it never crossed my mind that I could get into that seat. It is that is Dan Rather's, Walter Cronkite's fucking seat.
00:03:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, it is.
00:03:33
Speaker 1: It prestigious as hell. So yes, we're gonna pay attention to Tony Dekople if he's taken over that seat.
00:03:38
Speaker 3: It's a really fair point to make.
00:03:39
Speaker 2: I think any journalist who has aspirations of being in the National Forum, basically the top of your game, still wouldn't dare say, Yeah, I'm gonna be.
00:03:51
Speaker 3: The evening news anchor.
00:03:52
Speaker 2: That is just a seat that is special and held for only a few And I never had that dream because I didn't think it was possible either.
00:04:03
Speaker 1: Again, we're mourning people, it's not our lane. That's fine, but still there was not that No, weren't that many jobs in the industry that I thought.
00:04:11
Speaker 4: Nah, don't even try bottom. Yeah, and just this is just a prestigious seat. So we can honestly say we're rooting for this guy, we are rooting for this show, We're rooting for this to work. We're still a part of this industry robes that has fallen off so much that we we don't like to see ratings fall. We don't like to see some of that shine come off of these prestigious shows and networks.
00:04:39
Speaker 2: And I don't think any of us want a journalist to come off as not being at the top of his or her game at this level, because that spakes so all of us in this industry, like we're all a part of it. So if suddenly someone who shouldn't be there, doesn't deserve to be there, isn't ready for the job, it makes everybody look inept and on and so yes, just by that standard alone, I want journalists to show how smart and how well read and how curious they are in the best of ways.
00:05:13
Speaker 1: Too often on these shows, some people do get the reputation just a newsreader, just a pretty face, the hair is just right, and talking head, yes, talking heads, and we obviously know they're overwhelmingly on the network level. That's not the case. However, we see it plenty of times where there are some people on these shows who cannot anchor their way out of a paper bag if they had to. And Tony Decoppo had a couple of moments last night, and I could absolutely give him a pass because it was his first night, and know he was nervous, and he looked nervous, and he should have been nervous. But there were some moments that there are kids in college right now who know not to do some of the stuff he did.
00:05:55
Speaker 2: And look, there is a big transition from being on a morning show to doing evening news.
00:06:00
Speaker 3: When you've been.
00:06:01
Speaker 2: Able to do both, you literally have to kind of flip a switch because when you're on a morning show, it's loose. You can be silly. If you make a mistake, you can point it out and laugh at it, even though they didn't really like that. It's generally not okay to do it. But if there was in a lighter moment, you could be humble and maybe fall on your own sword and make it look like you made it's okay. Evening news, it is formal. You want someone who is authoritative, someone who is credible, someone who knows what they're saying, and who is literally leading and steering the ship.
00:06:29
Speaker 3: It's a very different position.
00:06:33
Speaker 1: And you know, you make a point two morning show, what do you also have? You have Life Savers right next to you. You got an anchor team. Heything goes wrong, everybody can cover. If you don't know how to say a name, they can jump in. He was out there flapping in the wind at times. So let's tell you what happened here. Actually, Robes, he was supposed to well in December, they made the announcement he was going to be leaving CBS Morning Show, where he's been with Gail King since twenty nineteen. So he's leaving that show. They make the announcement, Okay, getting in the gig. He was supposed to start officially January fifth. Yesterday was supposed to be his first day, but he had to start early Rose because there have to be a little breaking news over the weekend with Maduro. So he actually Tony Decoppo made an earlier debut than anticipated. You would think maybe that I would think that would help things.
00:07:17
Speaker 3: Up for Monday, almost like a trial run.
00:07:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, when there's breaking it like it's easy at this point, the news is right there, just report it. So I thought maybe he would be able to get loose and he'd be really ready to go on Monday. Now I will ropes or all in. We're going to give our just observations what we saw. And yes, he's nervous. He should be. He looked a little uncomfortable, he was leaning weird. He constantly with the papers moving. It drives me. Creek stopped shuffling papers. He did it constantly last night. These are just little titnus is fine. These are not even critiques necessarily, but someone in that office is saying, hey, change this. Get a little nervous here, keep an eye on this, don't shuffle the paper so much. Blah blah blah blah.
00:08:01
Speaker 3: But Robes.
00:08:02
Speaker 1: When we got to the editorial, that is when things got scary. And I say scary as someone as people who've been watching this industry for a long time, and folks were wondering wondering what direction CBS News was going to go. I think he gave us a couple of indications.
00:08:17
Speaker 3: He certainly did.
00:08:17
Speaker 2: There were a couple of stories of note that seemed to actually, again, did he just say that?
00:08:25
Speaker 3: And one was when he was discussing vaccinations.
00:08:28
Speaker 2: There was the Pete heg Seth interview on the Saturday Show, and then there was the conversation about the invasion of Venezuela and oil prices and why we went into Venezuela in the first place and what the aftermath might be.
00:08:42
Speaker 3: It was all a little scary.
00:08:46
Speaker 1: I it was, Okay, it makes me nervous. I hate that you. I don't want to just be so hyperbolic here, but it was, it was. It was It was alarming to see some of the things he was doing, and it wasn't on cable news.
00:09:00
Speaker 2: What I saw was, yes, more exactly what you were talking about a cable news interview, because it wasn't about being curious. It was about leading whoever you were speaking to to say something that you wanted them to say. It was less about asking a question that maybe everyone was wondering at home and instead saying, but let me get you to explain why this is actually a good thing.
00:09:26
Speaker 3: There was an agenda.
00:09:27
Speaker 1: A lot of folks will tell you that so many in the media have had an agenda for a long time. Exactly you were, and so what's the problem now we're showing you a different agenda or other side. If you want to make that argument, fine, But there weren't whole stories being told. You want to criticize an ABC and NBC for doing this, then you should be able to take it as well. Es we were looking and to be frank, folks, all the headlines were consistent about his first day. Variety's article is the one that really got our attention because they seemed to they seemed to be brutal without being They seemed to be they didn't pull any punches, I suppose, but it didn't seem mean spirited.
00:10:07
Speaker 3: It wasn't mean spirited at all.
00:10:09
Speaker 2: In fact, they just seemed to point out what we all noticed in a very factual way, and unfortunately, in doing so, it was not a positive story for Tony de Coppel or for CBS Evening News.
00:10:23
Speaker 1: I think this is the This is a line from the article that helps you understand what we're talking about here. Quote. The administration's perspective was aired so thoroughly as to raise the question of when an interview becomes a press release. That's what they wrote about the hex Seth interview. I don't know ropes. This was what it was. The story. We did another story earlier today and I only got upset after we started recording. I didn't realize how bothered I was by it. And this is just it's bothersome when it's this type of blatant and look, Tony de Coppel, for all intents and purposes, he is there. We haven't given the background. We don't have to do. We know Trump versus CBS. They paid him sixty million or he got upset about a sixty minutes interview. Paramount was bought by sky Dance was owned by the Ellisons, who are close with Trump. They hire Barry Weiss, an opinion journalist, and she is taking the place whatever direction she wants to. He looked like he was sitting there making damn sure he said everything right or he was going to get in trouble.
00:11:31
Speaker 2: Several people wrote that he looked afraid, that he had fear in his face. Now, look, he could have had fear in his face, because it's a daunting thing to take over the role of Walter Cronkite. Basically, he knows the job he has, He knows the gravity of getting a position like that, and clearly it's exciting to get it, but it's more important to keep it. And that's probably the harder of the two. Even as difficult as it is to get the job, keeping it has proven, at least at CBS to be almost harder. And so, yes, he looked afraid. So some people were saying it was as if Barry Weiss he knows the second he says the wrong thing, or does the wrong thing, or says something she doesn't like, he's out. And so that was what people were attributing the look on his face to fairly or unfairly, that's just what was written.
00:12:18
Speaker 1: You know what, We're gonna hold this stay here. As soon as we come back, We're gonna immediately get into the key moment that had us jaws dropped and we were rewinding several times to make sure we heard what we had just heard. We'll explain that moment. We'll also explain what you were saying as well, Robes big problems here at CBS. Yes, he said that. We will give you the verbatim of that fumbling moment that so many are talking about, and also let you know where CBS News, the Evening News is in the ratings and how much work they got to do. Moving forward with mister Tony.
00:12:57
Speaker 2: Di coppol, Welcome back to Amy and TJ. We are talking about the debut of the news, CBS Evening News with Tony d Copple. It officially launched on Monday night, and there are a lot of opinions about what we all saw yesterday evening and they've all kind of reached a consensus that Tony dacopple, they're concerned about whether or not he's ready for primetime, and they're more concerned perhaps about the direction the Evening News is taking with him at the helm.
00:13:40
Speaker 1: I'm okay with the I don't know if he's primetime. He's done the morning show at the network level for five six years now. He should be ready for this, so I will give him a pass on being ready for primetime.
00:13:52
Speaker 3: Is your first night, Yes, we all have to we all have rough broadcasts.
00:13:56
Speaker 1: Yes it happens.
00:13:57
Speaker 2: We've all made mistakes, and in he might know way better than to call. We'll get into what happened to call out a problem. But sometimes when you get nervous there, you just have a knee jerk reaction, and when you're on live television, you cannot take it back. So that may have been what happened, But maybe perhaps even more concerning is what happened just before that very obvious gaff that happened. He came out of a piece that was discussing what happened in Venezuela, and so then he spoke.
00:14:26
Speaker 1: To what was Jill Business correspond.
00:14:31
Speaker 2: Business correspondent, and they really did treat this as a business story, less about a political story or a controversial story, or a legal story kind of all of that was ignored and it was more a business story about gas prices, and so when he finished talking to her, he wanted to explain something to the American people who were listening.
00:14:54
Speaker 1: This is the part and I couldn't tell you after he did it, but he was setting up to a point where he looked nervous, like he knew something was coming, and he was We've done this plenty. You're so focused on the next thing that you screw up what you're doing at the time, and he just looked out of sorts as he was rapping and saying thank you to Jill, and she said something what he said, No, you're awesome, right?
00:15:15
Speaker 2: No?
00:15:15
Speaker 3: She uh? What was the word he used? It was bizarre. It was just an awkward.
00:15:22
Speaker 1: Transition, an awkward moment, and not something you're used to hearing, certainly at this desk. So he wrapped her up and then he turns to the camera for a one shot and he's not telling a story. But this is the zact precise quote and we should share it, heroes. But again, we're not actually going to interpret any of us. This is his exact quote after he rapped with the reporter about oil prices.
00:15:52
Speaker 2: So, as you just heard from Jill, we should not expect this to affect gas prices all that much, which does raise the question of exactly how now it helps the United States, and if it helps the United States at all, which is it actually about.
00:16:06
Speaker 3: Well, if you zoom.
00:16:07
Speaker 2: Out a bit, you can maybe see the outlines of an answer. For decades, Russia, China, and Iran have been rebuilding a presence in Venezuela, a base of power and influence in the hemisphere. With Maduro now out, that base of power and influence could be out too. That sounds like propaganda one oh one written by the White House. What And he looked like he knew he was doing something wrong. That was the look on his face. As a journalist, he knew he was reading talking points political talking points.
00:16:44
Speaker 1: He gave even a justification for what we did. This is how it could be beneficial to us that he could speculate all he wants. He's more than welcome to. But for us, if you say this, expert said, if you said, these political watchers now they are saying in this is a part of what's gotten him in trouble or a lot of the critique ropes is that he has gone out there and gone out of his way to promote this show and his journalism as something different.
00:17:14
Speaker 3: Can I please read his words?
00:17:16
Speaker 1: Please?
00:17:16
Speaker 3: He pledged this to viewers.
00:17:18
Speaker 2: You come first, not advertisers, not politicians, not corporate interests, and yes that does include the corporate owners of CBS.
00:17:29
Speaker 3: I report for you.
00:17:30
Speaker 2: I can promise you will be more accountable and more transparent than Cronkite or anyone else of his era.
00:17:38
Speaker 1: You gotta pump the breaks on Kronkite. You got. It's like saying, yeah, this is a better melody than Prince ever wrote. I mean, slow down. There's just some things you don't mess with. Don't challenge, don't tell me you're doing anything better than Cronkite that is going to get you immediate criticism.
00:17:54
Speaker 3: Just do better and see if they write about it.
00:17:56
Speaker 1: What was this thing he said? Make me earn it, right, he said, don't just trust me, make me earn your trust to your point there, Yes, you don't have to tell us you're better than Cronkite. We're willing to give you a shot here. We will watch. But that that line robes that entire reading of it. And when you watch him do it, it did it looked like some kind of bizarre It didn't look like it was willing, He didn't deliver it with confidence. He looked like he was being made by his teacher to apologize to the class. It was just this is just an impression. We don't know this guy, This is not personal at all. But when we've watched enough news robes and we know what we heard and what we were seeing from him in that.
00:18:43
Speaker 2: Moment, and look, our job is journalists, I want to point this out, is to question our government, is to investigate, to not just take things at face value, and certainly not to explain or justify our leader's actions. And that's what we saw, and that's what's concerning. And our job is to question who is running our country from both sides of the aisle, Republicans and Democrats. So if you want to say people are softer on this or harder on that, I get that. But the point being is you always are supposed to question, You're always supposed to be curious.
00:19:16
Speaker 3: That is our job. It is not to advocate.
00:19:18
Speaker 2: For or justify or explain why someone did something controversial. That's what's concerning about it. That's why it doesn't feel right.
00:19:27
Speaker 1: It didn't feel right, and I want to I'm trying to give this a a journalistic lean, right, Maybe do they see this as interpreting or giving a perspective You're not hearing elsewhere? Is there a perspective here he introduced it or said it as possibilities that influence that base of power could be out to. It was I don't I just it stopped. We immediately and watching this broadcast, that was the thing that we've stopped and went, what in God's name is that? And look, I'm trying to find a way to say, yo, let them do the thing. This is how they want to go about it. How that was anything other than what is being described in a lot of places. Robes and right after that, this is the thing that at least got the most headlines. Probably is as soon as he delivered that line and Robes, he flubbed the thing he did before, and he flubbed the thing he did right after, which you know.
00:20:20
Speaker 2: As a nous that is when you know something's wrong and then you mess up all around it.
00:20:24
Speaker 3: And that is exactly what happened, because.
00:20:26
Speaker 1: He was so focused on getting that right that he didn't stay in the moment of those other segments. And again we can suggest We've seen this a million times. We've done it a million times to ourselves. But right after he made that I guess declaration or giving us more context or pulling back as he said, this is where things got off the rails. Technically sure, but Robes, you want to take the verbatim here. It's kind of weird to read, but what you're about to hear, folks verbatim word for word. His next segment, it didn't go right because they had the wrong video up and he wasn't sure where to go. But this is how he handled.
00:21:02
Speaker 2: It to other news, as you just heard from Jill Well to other news. Now to Governor Wallace. No, we're going to Mark Kelly. He starts shaking his head. First day, first day, big problems here. Uh are we going to Kelly here? Or are we going to go to Jonah Kaplan Like he's literally talking to his producers on live television. Now there is four seconds of silence. That's an eternity in live television.
00:21:31
Speaker 1: It's insane.
00:21:33
Speaker 2: Then he finally says where Mark Kelly possibly demoted from his rank of captain in the navy, and then he goes on to tell the story.
00:21:39
Speaker 3: But to me, the flub.
00:21:41
Speaker 2: Yes, is making the headlines, but what preceded the flub is what actually we should be focused on.
00:21:47
Speaker 1: And I'm worried about him a little bit. Robes here Again. People have these moments. But when you're in that seat, your job, you get the big bucks right because it doesn't matter what you throw at me, the viewer is never going to know anything wrong. Watch me handle this. I am the anchor, the anchor of this all. I am running this show. We are going here, we are going here next. Oh, that's the wrong video. Let me tell you about that. You just keep it rolling.
00:22:17
Speaker 2: You say, hey, I know you guys are seeing Mark Kelly's face about me, but what we're talking about is this, and you just keep going. And I'm assuming usually if you are the CBS Evening News anchor, you are also the managing editor.
00:22:28
Speaker 3: Act like one. You need to take charge.
00:22:30
Speaker 2: I know it's tough, it's his first day on the job, but that is one of the more important parts of the job is to take charge and to lead.
00:22:40
Speaker 1: That was concerning that on this level that happened. Look, we've seen a bunch of Look I've been responded many, We've got countless.
00:22:47
Speaker 2: We have you and I were in cable news. I mean, I wouldn't, Oh my goodness.
00:22:51
Speaker 1: But that's where you learn to handle these things. It's all live. It's all live. So yes, there is a different skill set. Give him a pass there, but it is a little concerning. And four seconds, folks, doesn't seem like a long time if you're watching television and there is nothing being said on a broadcast for four seconds. Rhodes, let's show what four seconds looks like. You're ready starting Now, that's a long time. It is a long time in a broadcast. Yeah, network show. So it look, it was a rough start, and we're trying look some of this. In our job, we talk about these things. The hardest thing for us to do is to critique anything else from broadcast news because some of these people are our friends and our colleagues, and we know what they're going through. We know it, so this is not personal. Think he's going to be okay, actually rooting for him.
00:23:45
Speaker 3: He had a rough start, Yeah he did.
00:23:47
Speaker 2: And we didn't even mention the fact that when he has to follow up about vaccinations, he came at it from the perspective of anti vaxxers. He didn't say parents are going to have a lot of questions. They're going to be confused, so parents are going to have so we said, there are parents who are celebrating this. So he actually asked the follow up through the lens of anti vaxxers. That was deeply disturbing as well.
00:24:10
Speaker 1: Again, it's in some might be looking at wow. George Stephanopolis never would have asked the question that way. It's a relief to have another side represent it.
00:24:19
Speaker 2: Yes, I hear you, but then that is cable news, and if you are actually a CBS network news you there is a way to ask both. You know, for people who are celebrating and people who are concerned, what do you say to them?
00:24:30
Speaker 3: As a physician, you can acknowledge both.
00:24:33
Speaker 1: Seemed like there was possibly an agenda and if that's what they want to do, that's okay. But we're seeing what we're seeing Tony rooting for you, h really and room for that chair and rooting for a lot of people at that network network quite frankly, and there's some work to do on the CBS Evening News. I can't remember the last time they were competitive, but they've been a distant third for a long time.
00:24:53
Speaker 3: Yes, late latest ratings.
00:24:55
Speaker 2: You have here ABC seven point five million, NBC six million, n CBS at four point two million, So they do have a lot of ways to.
00:25:06
Speaker 1: Go, all right, but we will keep an eye certain this is must see TV now and you know he can't wait to get back on TV tonight to get that one behind.
00:25:14
Speaker 3: He wants redemption show. Yes, that was understandable.
00:25:16
Speaker 1: You remember that that was the best thing every time you screwed up a show.
00:25:19
Speaker 3: Yeah, wow, I get tomorrow.
00:25:20
Speaker 1: I got another chance tomorrow. So Tony, you got another chance tonight. We will be watching. Good luck to you all over there. I always appreciate you all spending some time here with us. But for my dear Amy Robock, I am t J. Holmes. You will talk to the Ulson