Funny Girl with Margaret Cho... (S4 E2 "The Real Me")

00:00:01
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are you a Charlotte?

00:00:08
Speaker 2: Hi?

00:00:08
Speaker 1: Everybody, welcome to Are You a Charlotte? We are talking to the fantastic Margaret Chow today. She's in one of the all time great episodes, The Real Me.

00:00:21
Speaker 3: It's episode four oh two.

00:00:23
Speaker 1: So we're now in the fourth season, which I really think of as the third season, just a very long season.

00:00:30
Speaker 3: So this is the Fashion.

00:00:31
Speaker 1: Show and she plays the producer of the Fashion show. And she's incredible. You may know, Margaret, She's done so many things. I don't even know where to begin, but she's done so much. And she's also an incredible stand up comedian, and she's currently on tour. You can see her tour across the country, and she has her own website for tickets, margaretshow dot com.

00:00:53
Speaker 3: So check her out. Here we go, let's talk to Margaret Choe about The Real Me.

00:00:58
Speaker 2: Hi, Mark Show. I'm so excited you're here. I'm excited to be here. I'm glad that we got to connect.

00:01:05
Speaker 1: Gosh me too, because this episode is one of my all time favorites, and you are such a big part of it.

00:01:12
Speaker 3: We had to get you. We had to get you it.

00:01:15
Speaker 2: I liked this one. Yeah, it's good, right. It's such a great one, isn't it.

00:01:20
Speaker 1: And so the episode is called a real me for anyone who doesn't remember, it's very iconic. I don't use that word frequently, but this would be one.

00:01:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, And had.

00:01:29
Speaker 1: You seen it lately or did you rewatch and think like, wow, I forgot about this.

00:01:33
Speaker 2: No, I saw it actually really recently. I saw it a couple of really just a couple of weeks ago, as I was actually doing a rewatch for myself, you know, because I just think it's so iconic it deserves a rewatch. I mean, it's one of those ones where this is like the best of the show and that era and also the best of the time. Yeah, you know when we're talking about great, great early two thousands tellelevision, you know, this was like really just a gold standard of what television was. And it was one of those really special episodes where you had amazing guest stars, you know, people playing themselves. Yes, really incredible.

00:02:14
Speaker 3: Now, when you.

00:02:14
Speaker 1: Did the show at the time, what was your awareness of the show or what how did you feel about you know, your part and your like I feel like you ad lived, you brought a lot of yourself to it.

00:02:26
Speaker 2: Well, I had been obsessed with the show since the pilot, and I was sectually sent the pilot before it aired by Carolyn Oh at HBO, Yeah, because she wanted me to write on it because I've been writing scripts and I had a movie script that was kind of out there that was like my speck and it was actually like such a you know, kind of perfect entry point into the show, and so she sent it to me. But I was like trying to just do stand up comedy, and I kind of, you know, was at that impasse where I didn't know if I want to be a writer, be stand up comic, you know, in a way sometimes like it was early days, you had to choose, you know, and I kind of decided, well, I'm going to focus on stand up comedy. And I really did come to regret it because I really love the show and I felt, you know, I fell in love with the pilot. I really loved it, and then you know, of course watched it after and then later became friends with Michael Patrick King who he and I would do stand up comedy shows together, right, and so he and I were I was always telling him about how obsessed I was with the show and how much I loved it, and you know, it just this this part worked out, and so I'm so glad that.

00:03:36
Speaker 1: It did me too. But gosh, we would have been lucky to have you as a writer. That would have been incredible.

00:03:41
Speaker 2: I would have loved to do that. I mean, you know, it just it was one of those things where it's like, what do you want to be in life? I think that I probably would have come out better. I would probably be show running several shows right now. Route I would be doing a lot, you know, it would be shondaland it would be cho Land.

00:04:00
Speaker 1: Absolutely, it could still happen. It could still happen. But you know the other thing is that I feel like as a woman and being a stand up, it was important then. I mean it's still important now, right. I just feel like there weren't that many and it seemed like there was an opening at that time where you and a few others really like stepped through that door, and I think that was important.

00:04:23
Speaker 3: It felt important to me.

00:04:24
Speaker 1: To know that there were women's stand ups out there, you know, kind of doing what was traditionally thought of as a male thing and kind of telling things from the point of a different point of view, you know, your own point of view. I felt like that was important.

00:04:38
Speaker 2: Thank you. Yeah, it's it really was, you know. And it's also like I just think it was so different then because we really had to we couldn't do it all. I think now women have a top sort of a way that they can do everything. There's a way that we could do it all. But by back then you really had to choose, like yes's your track.

00:04:57
Speaker 1: There were so many like with us, it was like TV or film like things that don't even make sense anymore to say out loud, you know. But back then, yeah, you had to kind of pick a lane and stay in it, which is so unfair.

00:05:10
Speaker 2: It's so unfair because and it was even to the point of like, oh, are you going to be a model or an actress? Are you going to be a mother or are you going to you know, like yes, like or lesbian.

00:05:20
Speaker 3: Yes yes, or lesbian mother? Absolutely absolutely.

00:05:24
Speaker 1: And now I mean I think because of social media also, like as I was watching the episode two, you know it's about your inner model, Carrie has this whole thing.

00:05:31
Speaker 3: Am I a model? Can I fit in?

00:05:34
Speaker 1: You know? What is my role here, and then I was thinking about how different it is now and that like everyone like if you want to be like a model on your Instagram, you can do, you know what I mean?

00:05:45
Speaker 3: Like, it's interesting.

00:05:46
Speaker 1: It's very interesting in terms of I mean, I guess what she's also looking for is kind of like an outward seal of approval too.

00:05:53
Speaker 3: But that's what kind of social media can.

00:05:56
Speaker 1: Seemingly provide though it's not real, right, It's interesting.

00:06:04
Speaker 3: It's interesting.

00:06:05
Speaker 2: What's super interesting too is watching this episode again and not having the social media element, because because if you had done sort of the episode, if you had done this episode, say in you know, just like that, you would have had the whole other part of like social media becoming viral and then she's a meme yep, oh yeah, and it would have been great to be able to explore that. I was like thinking, oh, you know, I actually accosted m BK and like two years ago, right before season three, and just like that, and I was like, I really want to do the show again, and he's, oh, yeah, yeah, perfect, and I should have pitched that to him. We should do another, so great, and then how have it? Something else happened? Whether it's not necessarily falling being fashioned roadkill, but you know, but having her become.

00:06:57
Speaker 3: A meme absolutely that was the era.

00:07:00
Speaker 2: We didn't have that yet.

00:07:03
Speaker 3: We did not have that yet. It's so different.

00:07:07
Speaker 1: I mean it watching it is there are definitely episodes where those kind of like time differences are so clear, and this was one of them. And that I also think, I mean, this is we've.

00:07:20
Speaker 3: Just started the fourth season.

00:07:21
Speaker 1: In my mind, I think this is I always thought this was the third season, right, Like to me, the third season is when things really started working, and the fourth season I don't even really remember. But when I watched this, I was like, oh yeah, in my mind, I collected them all in the third season, do you know.

00:07:35
Speaker 3: What I'm saying, Because that's when.

00:07:37
Speaker 1: We were we just kind of gelled, you know, things got more cohesive. Not that I mean I like the first and season first and second seasons much more than I thought that I would when I rewatched, But the third season I love, like I passionately love. And these two episodes that we start the fourth season with Michael Patrick wrote and directed, which is that's how he would like to roll in life at all times, right, But I think that was the first time he got to do it and we aired them together apparently, so this was really us kind of upping our game, like this is what we can do. And when you look at the first episode next to the second episode, they're very different in the way where HBO allowed us, you know, to be a little bit more serious, a little bit more introspective, and then have something like a big thing like the fashion show where she falls down, which you know now is a meme, Like even though we obviously did it back then, obviously it is a.

00:08:30
Speaker 2: Meme now it's out there. It's you know, it's so fun because I see it, you know, you get you gets used in things like Saint Hoax, which is a great kind of meme site. They use it, use the clip often, which is really really funny. It's really great, and I just love how it's become part of our like meme hieroglyphics. Yes, you know there there's a way to use and memes as a kind of shorthand in society. So yeah, the fashion roadkill has become definitely part of the language. Is so good.

00:09:01
Speaker 3: I know, it's so good.

00:09:02
Speaker 1: I mean I look at it also and I don't I don't know I can see when I'm watching us that kind of everyone seems amped up in a certain way, like we know that things are working, you know, and we're excited to be there. Everyone seems very excited to be there. But I also think, on the other hand, I remember a lot of stress, right, like who could we get, Like, it's obviously not dul Jay and Gobana. I'm sure we tried to get the real adult Chaan and Gobana, right, and at one point they say something like we're dult Chan and Gobana. Did people not know that they weren't.

00:09:34
Speaker 3: Really dult Jian and Gobana. It's so interesting to me.

00:09:37
Speaker 2: I think back then they would have just accepted it as oh a base value of course that of course that's who they are, right, you know, we didn't know enough to say, oh, that's not obviously that's Alan coming. Yeah, you know what I mean.

00:09:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really funny. It's really funny, and like, I don't know, I knew who Kevin Aquan was, but I don't know if regular people knew who Kevin o'quan was.

00:09:58
Speaker 2: Right outside of like the make up sort of a geek people, or I mean I knew because I was a fan of his books too. I loved his style and I learned a lot from him, and he and I actually had a really good time backstage. Ah, and he gave me a huge, like but big bags of his new product line up he was releasing, and he gave me assigned books.

00:10:25
Speaker 1: Wow.

00:10:25
Speaker 2: And he had back there and he was just so wonderful. And actually that was the last time I got to see him before he passed away.

00:10:33
Speaker 1: I know. I know. Sarah had told us that she knew him and he'd worked on her before, and I think she called him to ask him to come, and all of us were very excited, and at one point I think we wanted to go back there because you guys were kind of separate, you know, back there, and we were out front of the fashion show, and she said that he was laying down, that he didn't feel well because he was getting headaches from what would eventually be you know, you know, horrible for him, and that his hands had grown like there were things that had She was aware of that, I don't think publicly people were aware of, which is so sad when you watch it.

00:11:12
Speaker 3: He's so sweet.

00:11:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's such a beautiful man, and you would never imagine that somebody so young and vibrant and brilliant and gorgeous would not live very much long after that, you know, it's so strange.

00:11:27
Speaker 1: No, but I'm glad that you were there and that you got to spend time with them, and that you had a good time.

00:11:31
Speaker 3: That's so good. That's so so good.

00:11:34
Speaker 1: And I have talked to Heidi Klum since this, and I can't remember if we talked in depth about the day, but I know she had fun. Like I think it was a fun day. Yeah, do you remember it? Okay, good, it was a.

00:11:46
Speaker 2: Really fun day. I remember they're just being this like flurry of activity. Like it was not just like a set. It was really like a fashion show. Yeah, you had all of the models and you had all of the extras, but everybody looked perfect, you know, and it was just so well styled and just so real. I mean, exactly what you think.

00:12:09
Speaker 3: Do you have Pat memories?

00:12:10
Speaker 2: I mean Pat, I've been a fan of as you know, her stores and like just her style, and yeah, I was so excited to be styled by her, and you know, just to go into that you know, fashion the workshop, you know, all your characters out there, and like what she was doing. She's just such a brilliant person, you know, with that crazy red hair and just her energy was just it was really exciting to just be around her.

00:12:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, definitely definitely.

00:12:38
Speaker 1: And that show I remember it just being you know, like so heightened, you know, so heightened to be trying to pull off that fashion show and Ed Kotch was there, and you know, it was I.

00:12:50
Speaker 3: Mean, it was a lot.

00:12:51
Speaker 1: It was a lot, but it was exciting, and I remember everyone being very amped up and excited, and we had obviously just come back right, so we had a lot of energy. But also I love all your scenes on the street, which I had kind of forgotten about, like when you're on the phone with her, then you when you run into her in that first restaurant, Like they're all so good. And how much input did you have an into that Well.

00:13:13
Speaker 2: Not, I mean not a ton. Like it was to me like I just wanted to follow what Michael was like looking for, and then I think, I don't. I really don't think that any of it was really improv really really, I think it was really just on the page. Wow, And you just kind of came together really naturally.

00:13:31
Speaker 1: Well, as he knew you I think when you knows people, he writes so well in your voice, right.

00:13:38
Speaker 2: That's definitely it. Because we had done so many shows together, so he was really really well versed in me, and he also knew the real person. So the character is a real person, right. She actually runs all these shows, and she was actually there too, so she was there to give us some advice and some kind of like pointers on what it was really like to be, you know, running and calling the shots at a show like that. So it was a wonderful combination between Michael's writing and this real life person.

00:14:06
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely wonderful and so like kind of interesting. I remember at the time, like when Carrie's talking about you know, at one point, Charlotte says, I say to Carrie, like, how many shows did you drag me to? Like this was the time that we were all going to fashion Week. It was a very like it seemed like a very separate world back then, not like now where you know, it's like all on our feeds and right, you know, very much discussed.

00:14:36
Speaker 3: I mean, at least for me.

00:14:37
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's true for everybody, but I guess social media the social media effect, right, But back then it was like a kind of a exclusive, closed world and we were just so excited to go. And I remember we'd go to the tents that Brian Park and just spend the day and just go to this show or go to that show. Where you know, it was fun, it was interesting and fun and not it was not so it was like just being in a different world. It didn't feel like our world, which is what I loved about it. And I don't feel like that's true anymore. I feel like all the worlds are just like blended together now, you know.

00:15:09
Speaker 2: Right, it's very different because now, you know, with these fashion shows, you see like influencers and you see just all you know, all of sort of the social media like presence there and it is kind of for everybody. But back then, you know, it was a very big deal if you got invited to a show. Yeah, it was like, you know, very tight, and you know, it was fast and frenetic. When the models came out, it was just so magical and it was yeah, very stunning to just watch the spectacle of fashion before you and you know, along with the specialness of being asked yes, you know, representing your you know, New York, representing fashion being like able to be in the audience was part of the show as well.

00:15:51
Speaker 1: Definitely, definitely, and I think that's what was so smart about Michael, including you know, basically just like wrapping the whole episode around that. And I also feel like like when Carrie's talked about like how much she loves models, like.

00:16:04
Speaker 3: It's so sweet, you know, it's so sweet, and that is how we.

00:16:08
Speaker 1: Grew up, I mean, for right or wrong, right, like we were like they're just amazing. Like at one point she goes on about Cindy Crawford's mole. It's so cute, like innocent, you know in a way.

00:16:21
Speaker 2: Well, it's almost like, you know, the dream that we have of femininity, the dream of womanhood, Like this is like the the spectacle of womanhood that we're given and you know, to to just really enjoy that, the beauty of that, and it's very innocent, it's very like goes into Carrie has that kind of very little girl dreamlike quality sometimes, which makes her so incredibly engaging and somebody that you really identify with because she kind of, you know, has so many little girl feelings that she brings to the surface. So that's one of them. I love that.

00:16:56
Speaker 1: That's so true, and it's mixed also with intelligence and irony all together, which is what also kind of makes her so interesting, Like when she tells the photographer played by James McAffrey, which I want to talk about in a second, that you know, when she first moved to New York that she would she would spend her money on Vogue rather than dinner because it fed her more.

00:17:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so adorable, so true.

00:17:17
Speaker 2: It's such a very like deep truth. And I remember once in the nineties, I was like on tour on my birthday and I was having the worst birthday. Like it was like I was in the mid middle of like nowhere is freezing cold, and I was having dinner at a gas station restaurant. Oh no, and I was I actually had purchased at the airport and Italian Vogue. Oh I'm reading my giant Italian Vogue in the middle of a gas station restaurant.

00:17:50
Speaker 1: And I felt better, absolutely not so bad because at least I have this. That's so true, that's so true because somehow, I mean, just the other day, I was somewhere and I saw a real paper Vogue and I was like, yes, I need to hold it.

00:18:05
Speaker 3: And touch it and look at it now.

00:18:07
Speaker 2: All the cards fall out, right.

00:18:09
Speaker 1: The cars fall out, and the ads are so beautiful, and it's something that I feel like it's going to go away, you know, and I'm sad about it.

00:18:17
Speaker 2: I wish that I had an old George. Oh George, Yeah, I do. Are you ever in George? I was?

00:18:24
Speaker 3: I don't think I was ever in George.

00:18:26
Speaker 1: I remember talking to them about being in George, but I don't know if I was. I just remember George and being like so excited about George, you know.

00:18:35
Speaker 2: Just the idea. I mean, it would be so great to have George today. Could you imagine how great that would be?

00:18:41
Speaker 3: It would be great. It would be great.

00:18:43
Speaker 1: I know we would need him though to make it great, right, Yeah.

00:18:47
Speaker 2: It's true, it's true. But the idea of like a you know, sort of a democratic leaning kind of humor but also satirical but also com current event.

00:18:59
Speaker 1: Based like m Glossy exactly, Bence, that would be amazing. Alrighty, it is time for our Hondai hot take, and for this episode the real Me. I think I'm gonna have to say Samantha taking these nude photos that she does, because it's so powerful for her to be, you know, in her Samantha type way, embracing her body and being so unapologetic and you know, showing them to people. And then Dylan Charlotte she should go look at herself. I mean, all of it is is just so pro women and powerful that I think that's gonna be my my hot take. Go Samantha celebrating iconic moments, bold moves and unforgettable style, just like Hyundai. It's interesting the whole, you know, because of this of Ryan Murphy's show, the you know, like deep dive into the nineties of Carolin, Bassett, Kennedy and John It's so fascinating to me. I mean, were you there, Like what were you in New York for all of the nineties.

00:20:21
Speaker 2: Yes, I was there, back and forth. So I spent a lot of I split between LA and New York, and I would do different things in New York. I had a lot of friends there. I was hanging out with the rock band Luna, so they were in the East Village and so I was down there with all the rock stars and you know, in giant platform a shoes and walking all around in like a ray on nit. There was something very spongy about all the clothes in the nineties, it was kind of all ray on nit.

00:20:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, we weren't into conton yet, It's true.

00:20:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was very ray On, way too close to the skin, and you know, just kind of boxy cuts on everything, and even like the shirting, like the like button up shirts that yew, it's like crisp cotton. But then it had a stretch to it.

00:21:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true.

00:21:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, weird Rayon.

00:21:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's true. It's true. Clothes were weird then.

00:21:15
Speaker 1: And I think it's interesting because now there's this whole kind of people are, you know, trying to get this style or trying to talk about this style. And I've seen a couple of things that have said, like, you're never going to get the style because the clothes are just fundamentally different, which I do think is true.

00:21:28
Speaker 3: I do think that's true, and I don't think that they actually really want the clothes.

00:21:33
Speaker 2: No, they weren't as well constructed. We didn't have fast fashion right in the same way. So but this stuff was just like not good, you know, it was didn't last right.

00:21:48
Speaker 1: Right, And I just I think it was hard to find like good tailoring at the time. You know, like it was boxy. Everything was boxy and weird, which is why when you saw someone like Carolyn, she it's like Sarah Jessica, Like.

00:22:00
Speaker 3: Jessica wears these sweatpants.

00:22:02
Speaker 1: Around, but you cannot tell that they're sweatpants because she has styled them in her Sara Jesca way, right.

00:22:08
Speaker 3: And at one point she told me that she was trying to get clothes for our kids to go daughters to go back to.

00:22:14
Speaker 1: School, and her daughters were like, well, you'd never wear sweatpants, and she was like, I wear sweatpants every day.

00:22:19
Speaker 3: They're like you do.

00:22:20
Speaker 1: Because just her own style dictates that everything will look different on her, which is why she is what she is, which you would understand so much better than I would understand, right, Like, you also have incredible style, but that's not something you can replicate.

00:22:37
Speaker 2: No, it's hard to actually do it. I mean part of it is like mastering your own tailoring, like I takes I actually yesterday took sweatpants into the tailor, like she.

00:22:47
Speaker 3: Actually tell us the secrets.

00:22:49
Speaker 2: You have to take sweatpants into the tailor and what do you have them? Do you have them take move the cuffs on the bottom, to the right length. So they usually sweatpants are too either too long or too boxy in the leg or okay, so you have to actually have them kind of fit to your leg. Okay, you know, really really think about where there's too much fabric and think about where you will you know, be able to maximize your look and not look so slovenly. Right, sweatpants are meant sort of meant to be sort of slovenly out, but they can actually be upgraded quite a lot, right.

00:23:22
Speaker 3: We see, you know these things. I do not know these things, so I do not wear sweatpants out of the house. That's just me. I'm just like, I'm not.

00:23:28
Speaker 1: Going to take a risk, right, But like you guys understand style, but I just think also it's funny because people love that, but then they also don't really understand what goes into how that's done. Right, Like you know this, you know, okay, you take your sweatpants to the tailor.

00:23:44
Speaker 2: I mean, who knew if you could do it yourself, I could do it myself. I don't have a machine anymore. I got rid of all my sewing stuff because it's just like too much of an obsession to me. Because I like to make clothes. Wow, it's very time consuming and I don't think it's good.

00:24:01
Speaker 3: Oh it sounds awesome.

00:24:03
Speaker 2: I do too much, so I want to just have it like simpler and so yeah, I just take them to the tailor. But it's you know, I think if you really spend all of your time paying attention to what your clothes fit, like, you'll buy less.

00:24:17
Speaker 3: You know your point.

00:24:18
Speaker 2: You invest in the fit and you don't like kind of go because fast fashion is so pervasive. You want to buy bye bye, right, But it's better to buy quality things, have them tailored to you, and then you have that thing, which is to me, that's the best.

00:24:35
Speaker 1: That's a good point. It's an excellent point. Absolutely. I try to remind myself to shop my closet.

00:24:40
Speaker 2: Oh yeah you should. I mean, you have amazing pieces, so you know, I.

00:24:43
Speaker 1: Mean only from work, right, like really, well, you know, it's wonderful.

00:24:49
Speaker 3: It is wonderful.

00:24:50
Speaker 1: It's wonderful to have, and sometimes I forget and so I'm like, oh, yeah, there's that thing, and I could just get it out. That's in whatever. I don't know, or maybe I don't even care if it's in right, I.

00:24:59
Speaker 2: Mean a so Charlotte. Like, I think Charlotte Tom Brown wouldn't exist as it does without Charlotte.

00:25:05
Speaker 3: Oh No, that's the sweetest thing.

00:25:08
Speaker 2: Tom Brown is like the culmination of watching Charlotte for all of this time. I love that.

00:25:15
Speaker 3: Oh, I love that so much.

00:25:17
Speaker 1: You're so sweet. That's such a nice compliment. Yeah, that's so Just.

00:25:20
Speaker 2: Did Charlotte wear Tom Brown? Because I feel like that's so meta.

00:25:24
Speaker 1: We did towards like and then just like that, like I have some coats, like like, we didn't do a head to toe type of the thing because it was almost so on the nose in a way, right, But definitely I don't think in the olden days we did. I'd have to think back. I mean maybe, but you know, it was always such an interesting push pull with Pat about Charlotte, right, and sometimes because I've felt really like when I was watching these episodes the first two of season two, there's a scene where I've gotten out my burbery coat from the first season and I'm rewaring it and my hair is longer, which is what I wanted Charlotte's hair to look like the whole time.

00:26:02
Speaker 3: I've finally achieved it. At the beginning of season.

00:26:05
Speaker 1: Four, yeah, but that is the Upper east Side hair, yeah for sure. But Pat never really liked anything to be kind of cut and dried, right. She was always like twisting something or turning something or mixing something so that it's not one hundred percent that thing, right, which I really respect now at the time sometimes a struggle, right like I would want it to be cut and dried because I felt like that's what Charlotte would.

00:26:32
Speaker 2: Well, Charlotte was so tailored. Charlotte was just so you know, she was really classic American style. She was really I mean, she was that you know, Carolyn Bassett feeling, you know, not as crazed and wild because yeah, yeah, because Carolyn has sort of like a wild.

00:26:51
Speaker 3: Horse quality, that's true.

00:26:53
Speaker 2: That's a little bit off. But Charlotte was like the more like tailored version of that, right right, right, you know, yes, the more sort of chaste and more refined, yes, but still elegant, you know, and that's still like Americana way.

00:27:10
Speaker 1: Definitely, definitely, definitely, which I loved. I love that part. I mean, I think for Pat two she that's kind of boring for her, right, So she was like, let's twist it, like what we do, you know, which I think is great. And that's the Tom Brown of it all, you know, yeah, right, it'sa.

00:27:23
Speaker 2: Plastic like I love your like the long Pony, Thank you had the best like sleek long Pony, because it just it was so elegant and just it was really giving American Royalty.

00:27:38
Speaker 3: Yes, so sweet, thank you. I so did not feel that way at the time.

00:27:41
Speaker 2: You know.

00:27:41
Speaker 3: It's that kind of thing where you look back and you're like, oh my god, I should have relaxed, you know what I mean?

00:27:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, well you had. I mean on the show, like Charlotte. I think Charlotte had the best style, the best boyfriend, best husband. I think Trey was really the best man, even though there was problems.

00:27:59
Speaker 3: Ooh, I went to take Trey over Beg.

00:28:04
Speaker 1: I would take definitely Stephen definitely no offense.

00:28:09
Speaker 2: But yeah, say over Aiden, I would take Chess. I mean it di's no competition.

00:28:14
Speaker 3: Really, I know what you mean. I know you mean.

00:28:16
Speaker 1: It's interesting because there's a lot of the story that I don't remember because I remember Kyle more so than the fictional story. Right, So when I watch now, I'm like, what is going to happen? Because I don't really remember it all And it's super interesting. I did not remember this at all, that he isn't this one or the one before where I go to his Oh, I think it might be the one before where I go I go to his apartment, which is later turns into Charlotte's apartment, right, but it has like.

00:28:42
Speaker 3: Horrible plaid wallpaper, which is kind of entertaining.

00:28:46
Speaker 1: And I've gone out with the girls. We've gone to a party and I'm yacking my little head off to some unsuspecting woman about how she says, you know, where's your husband? Oh, she's that's beautiful, ring where's your husband? So then I give her a monologue about how we're working things out and we have problems in the bedroom, et cetera. And I go off right and this woman is like, that's really not what I was looking for. And then after that I realized, oh, this is weird and we have to figure out what we're doing. So I go to his apartment. It's the nighttime. He gets up out of the bed. He comes. He's trying to have sex with me, but I'm like, no, no, I have a list of what we have to talk about.

00:29:22
Speaker 3: I have a list.

00:29:23
Speaker 1: I have a list, like poor Charlotte, you know, I know. But also he is confusing.

00:29:28
Speaker 2: He is confusing, he's got some mommy issues. It's like very you know, Bunny's a nightmare. So it's a very complicated thing. I think that. But just the way that you look together and Kyler are so beautiful together. It's just so gorgeous.

00:29:47
Speaker 1: I know.

00:29:47
Speaker 3: I do love to look at us.

00:29:49
Speaker 2: I agree.

00:29:49
Speaker 3: I agree.

00:29:49
Speaker 1: It takes me to a happy place to look at us, because I felt like he was like my brother in a weird way, like.

00:29:59
Speaker 2: The Gemini of it all, like the you twinsies, like the male version of this beauty, the brunette beauty of the female. Like it's just perfect.

00:30:10
Speaker 1: It's true, it's true, but there is that that very pesky problem of the sex right. And it's so funny because she's so hopeful and then like every time she tries, she comes with this list of things to talk to him about, and then he's trying to kiss her and you know, take her to bed and she's like, no, no, we've got to talk, and then he comes.

00:30:28
Speaker 3: On her leg.

00:30:29
Speaker 2: It's such a bummer, I.

00:30:30
Speaker 1: Know, and then she's like, yes, sEH, I've got to go, And you just really feel for her, and I don't remember this part, but like that is really a conundrum, right of, like everything is wonderful and except for the thing that's really pretty.

00:30:46
Speaker 2: Super important, that's super the most important thing.

00:30:49
Speaker 3: Actually, I mean I think so too. I think so too.

00:30:51
Speaker 1: And what I really think is that she doesn't have the skills to talk about it, and he won't talk about it.

00:30:58
Speaker 2: You can't and that's a.

00:30:59
Speaker 3: Problem, right, that's a problem.

00:31:01
Speaker 1: You got to be able to figure it out together, right, true?

00:31:05
Speaker 2: Yes, so true.

00:31:06
Speaker 3: So it's interesting to look back on that.

00:31:08
Speaker 1: But let's talk about the episode overall, because I really really really want to hear your thoughts on the other's storylines. So this is so what do you make of I mean, we've got so many things going on, but I love, like, I love your relationship with Carrie. Yeah, I mean I had forgotten that there was kind of so much more in it than just the fashion show, you know.

00:31:31
Speaker 2: You know, because there's history and there's just like a bossiness, but also like I'm trying to help her, but it's also my reputation on the line, So it's a it's a very complicated, layered thing, but yeah, I did that.

00:31:43
Speaker 1: I love like at one point you tell her to lighten up or something, when she's like, oh, now I'm with the not fashion people, you know, the NAWN models and Ed Cotch, and like you're like, just get over it, you know, like lighten up. It's really it's so good because she really does like trip out, you know what I mean?

00:32:00
Speaker 3: And I love Alan Cumming. Did you know him before?

00:32:02
Speaker 2: I knew him before, and I am so I love him. I've always loved him. He's the best, and you know, he's such a special guy. You know, I know him from Fire Up, hanging out on Fire Island and yeah, you know, he's just so amazing. So yeah, that was really fun.

00:32:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, so much fun, so much fun. I've seen him since too. But I don't think we I don't even think we've talked about it, like you know, when like you just know and you don't talk about it, and now I'm doing a podcast, I'm like.

00:32:28
Speaker 3: No, I need to talk about it. Yeah, okay, so then we.

00:32:33
Speaker 1: I had also forgotten about how they switched the dress on her, and I had such flashbacks to uncomfortable photo shoots where you know, they're all just trying to get you to do something and you're.

00:32:44
Speaker 3: Just like, no, that's not me.

00:32:47
Speaker 1: But then of course she looks amazing, right. But then also like it's just you're trying to fit into this thing that you don't really feel like you fit into.

00:32:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're just kind of being pushed along and this thing, and you're trying to please everybody but also trying to make sure that you feel okay. It's very strange. It's really something that I think people can definitely relate to, Like everybody saying, oh, it looks great, it's great, but it's hard to believe them because you don't feel so great.

00:33:12
Speaker 3: Absolutely.

00:33:13
Speaker 1: It's really like for me all the fashion shooes, I just felt horrible right for years and years and years because also I didn't I just didn't know enough to know when I should stand up for myself or not.

00:33:24
Speaker 2: I don't know, you don't know, like what should I pick my battles here? Like what is worth fighting for? You never know?

00:33:30
Speaker 3: No, you don't, you really don't.

00:33:32
Speaker 1: But then when you look back on it, certainly in this situation, everyone's saying, you look, you look fantastic, you look fantastic, and she does you know she does? Of course she does, right, which is great, and I had forgotten. I thought it was so sweet. How so she they changed the dress and they show her the little jeweled underwear and she thinks that's all they wanted her to wear, and so she's like no, absolutely, not no, and then they go, oh no. Allan's like, oh no, no, we have a coat, you know, And so they get the coat, and then they say that she needs big hair, and then and they say that she needs big eyes to go with the big hair. And then she's like, I need Samantha because she'll tell me the truth. And Samantha goes back and Carrie's so vulnerable and she's like, get me another champagne, which I guess also played into why she falls down because obviously we know she can run down the street in those heels. Of course, also it's like a slick runway, yeah, you know, yeah, and just got.

00:34:24
Speaker 2: Hers eyes on you, and you know the pressure of it the moment, you know, it's hard, it's hard to remember things of how to walk.

00:34:31
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, plus the model walk, like oh very stressful, Oh my god. But I loved how when Samantha comes back, and of course she looks amazing, but Carrie's got her hair down in her face.

00:34:42
Speaker 3: Do you remember this? And then she picks it up.

00:34:44
Speaker 1: It's just also charming, and she looks so stressed, but it's really so relatable and believable and I love it. And then Samantha's like, oh no, it's good, and then Carrie feels better, which I really loved.

00:34:55
Speaker 3: I've forgotten all of that.

00:34:56
Speaker 1: I'd also totally forgotten that I bring Anthon to meet Stanford, which.

00:35:04
Speaker 3: Just is so adorable.

00:35:06
Speaker 1: And I'd also forgotten about this adorable scene at the beginning of the show and Carrie and Stanford are out and and he says, I know what I look like to her, and she said, I know, Like it's just so so sweet, like Willie delivers it like so beautifully and sweet was so beautify.

00:35:27
Speaker 2: I really miss him, you know. He was my We used to play. We used to do this thing called twenty five Words or Less. Was just like really fun game show. And he was a formidable scene partner. We would like play and sometimes we play against each other, sometimes we play on a team together. And he was just a brilliant game player.

00:35:47
Speaker 1: Oh so bright, beautiful guy. I know it's so weird to think about. Yeah, whenever I watched this show. I'm like, gosh, it's so strange. It's really horrible not there anymore.

00:36:01
Speaker 3: It's very I know, I know.

00:36:04
Speaker 1: It is like, on the one hand, a joy, right, Like whenever he comes on the screen.

00:36:08
Speaker 2: He's so vivid, how wonderful, helpful, life and fun and so funny.

00:36:14
Speaker 1: And so unusual, Like he was such an unusual person, you know, like there's no one like him, which I think is why he worked so much and why he had friends everywhere.

00:36:23
Speaker 2: You know, he could do everything, yep, you know. He could be gay, he could be straight, yep, he could be young, he could be old. It was very weird. He was very unique, very much a shape shifter and yeah, really an actor in every in every way, like so different and so powerful, the great guy.

00:36:43
Speaker 3: It's so true.

00:36:44
Speaker 1: And whenever he comes up on screen, I'm like, oh, you know, because he is just so vivid too, like he jumps out at you, you know, on the screen, and then to think that that he's not here is obviously horrible, but it's amazing that he is on the screen, you know, Like it is it does make you feel like, oh, yes, thank god, we.

00:37:06
Speaker 3: Worked really hard.

00:37:07
Speaker 1: And that lives on and like created something and you can feel his energy.

00:37:12
Speaker 2: That's so special, right.

00:37:14
Speaker 1: It's amazing. It's amazing. And the sad thing when I was watching this show, I realized that the photographer is played by James McCaffrey, who also played another character, a different character in the first season. He plays big, kind of asshole friend. They go to this party and we run into all these other women who are like, you still have my passport too big?

00:37:36
Speaker 3: And Carrie's like, how many women here have you dated?

00:37:39
Speaker 1: That's James McCaffrey, who I also remember sitting in the HBO waiting room.

00:37:46
Speaker 3: He was reading for Big.

00:37:48
Speaker 1: Oh wow, Yes, And you can see he's like a good looking guy, you know, kind of similar age.

00:37:53
Speaker 3: He plays a photographer.

00:37:55
Speaker 1: In this and he sadly died in twenty twenty three. Because I was thinking we should get him on the show and discuss these different parts that he played.

00:38:02
Speaker 3: He died of cancer in twenty twenty three. It's so sad, but he's so great.

00:38:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he he and Justin Throw both played different characters as the same actor obviously played different characters. So now now we know that he gets to be in the just In Throw category of specialness that's so great.

00:38:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is so.

00:38:22
Speaker 1: Great because obviously Michael's very controlling about casting, so if someone got to play two characters, they were.

00:38:27
Speaker 3: Like, super deal.

00:38:28
Speaker 2: That's a very big deal exactly.

00:38:41
Speaker 1: So when I take Anthony to meet Stanford, and Anthony is pretty mean, you know, and Stanford, but then Stanford also goes in the back and says, you know, why would Charlotte bring such a queen?

00:38:53
Speaker 3: It's all pretty.

00:38:55
Speaker 1: Entertaining, so funny, so perfect, so perfect, and also so I feel like the these are things, and maybe it's just my world, but I feel like all these things are much more discussed and known about, like gay culture, yes, yes, like the stress to be attractive and the you know, like kind of hierarchy or whatever within like Carrie. Doesn't Carrie say something to him like I have bigger things to worry about than like the level of queenness, the level of queenness in your world.

00:39:24
Speaker 3: Something like that.

00:39:24
Speaker 1: It's pretty funny and and very fun that we got to kind of be open about those things back then.

00:39:31
Speaker 2: And learn about it too, Like it's like everybody's learning about it. Yeah, and it's it's it's emerging into like heterosexual culture, even though the show is really rooted in gay culture too. Yes, from a from a heterosexual female perspective, Yes, allowing it to emerge is really cool.

00:39:51
Speaker 3: I agree.

00:39:52
Speaker 1: I agree, it's fun and and you think back like, oh yeah, people didn't know this stuff back then, totally not the wide culture, you know.

00:39:59
Speaker 3: So I love that.

00:40:00
Speaker 1: Okay, So Charlotte, this is when I have this crazy thing that I also forgot about, where I say that my vagina is depressed in this whole episode, and I go to the I go to the ob joy Enn and we talk about Volvadinio, which I mean, is this real?

00:40:17
Speaker 3: I don't know.

00:40:18
Speaker 2: I think it is great. I think, okay, yes, but it's.

00:40:21
Speaker 3: Not something that I hear about very often.

00:40:24
Speaker 2: No, No, but I think it exists.

00:40:27
Speaker 3: It must exist.

00:40:28
Speaker 1: I mean they do all their research or whatever. I didn't look that up today because I was busy looking up David McCaffrey. But it's I had vaguely remembered this because this is when I'm in that vague time where like, I'm trying to make it work with Trey, but it's not really working.

00:40:42
Speaker 3: And you see that I have a cross on.

00:40:44
Speaker 1: At one point that was Michael planning ahead that he knew that I was going to meet Harry and have to deal with whether I was going to convert or not. He was so smart, and I remember him saying to me, like, you have to wear the cross, and I was like, calm down.

00:40:57
Speaker 2: Why he knew he could see the future already knew exactly what was going to happen, exactly exactly, And I love that about him.

00:41:04
Speaker 3: And I had also forgotten this whole thing.

00:41:06
Speaker 1: I'd forgotten Samantha getting photographed naked.

00:41:09
Speaker 3: I mean, it was great. She's so bold, and.

00:41:14
Speaker 1: Then I forgot about that, and then I love how, you know, She's like, I'm doing this for me, I'm doing this for me. But then everyone who all every man who sees the picture, she's waiting, you know, like you know that are they going to compliment me? And then luckily that delivery guy sees her on her own wall and compliments her, which is good. But then I had also forgotten that they tie together in the final coffee shop scene where they asked Charlotte if she's oh, she shows me a picture and wants to know if it's Artie and I'm like, ah, it's a full frontal and she goes oh, I was just warming up. And then we discussed whether we've looked at you ourselves, and I'm like, I don't want to look at it, and she makes me promise to go home and look at it. And this is when I fall off the bed looking at it, which I think is.

00:41:55
Speaker 2: Super adorable funny.

00:41:57
Speaker 1: I had thought that was like first season, you know what I mean, because it is kind of like an innocent Charlotte.

00:42:03
Speaker 2: But Charlotte is very innocent for the entire series, even yeah, afterwards in and just like that, because it's like she just retains that. I think she retains her childlike wonder at things.

00:42:17
Speaker 3: That is true. That is true. Sometimes it's hard to be objective. But yes, I know what you're saying.

00:42:21
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, which is a great, a great thing to retain in this crazy, crazy world.

00:42:27
Speaker 2: For sure. It's peopful, yes, And.

00:42:29
Speaker 3: I love that.

00:42:30
Speaker 1: And I you know, I have a fourteen year old daughter, and not that I would tell her to go look at herself in the mirror, because she'd be like mom and roll her eyes. But you know, these are good things to be putting out in the world.

00:42:40
Speaker 2: Well you should know what you look like. I mean, it's good to know, at least just for your own reference, absolutely.

00:42:46
Speaker 1: And because there's just such like stigma about all of it, you know, just to cut through this stigma and be like, yes, you should look at like what do you mean you don't want to look at yourself? Like it's a little bit crazy, but you know this is the the you know, inherited patriarchy basically, you.

00:43:05
Speaker 3: Know, right, we got to break that down.

00:43:07
Speaker 1: So I had forgotten that this was now, and it was so interesting how they came together. And I love that this is the way. Like Samantha has so many ways that she's kind of trying to help the rest of them, like not worry about things so much and not hang on to the men. And you know, when we're talking about the Soulmates, which is the episode right before, and you know, she's like, I don't worry about that, you know, yeah, And that's a great voice to have, right. But then also here for her, it's really about like self love and empower empowering each woman and like, yes, this is what I look like and there's nothing to be ashamed of.

00:43:42
Speaker 3: Right, It's a great thing.

00:43:44
Speaker 1: Is it beautiful? Incredibly beautiful. I'd fully forgotten about all of that, so it was very enjoyable. And it was so funny to see Tony Hale sitting there. It's so funny and good with literally almost no lines.

00:43:56
Speaker 2: Right, because we didn't know he was going to be Tony Hale.

00:43:59
Speaker 1: Right, So clearly was Tony Hale right, because he made you laugh with no lines, Like, it's impressive.

00:44:06
Speaker 3: It's so interesting.

00:44:07
Speaker 1: Actors are so interesting, and I love when we would have like, you know, like Bradley Cooper had one line in the first first season and not one, maybe two, but they were great, you know what I'm saying, Like it's interesting. But he you know, he was like I was a kid. That was my first or second job, but he was fantastic, Like you just had something interesting, you know.

00:44:26
Speaker 3: It's so interesting to see that stuff, I think.

00:44:29
Speaker 1: And then Miranda, Oh my god, Miranda's storyline really cracked me up. There are times when I'm watching and I think that Michael Patrick, because he wrote and directed these and sometimes the other writers are kind of writing our own experience of the success of the show into the show, right. And so in this episode, Miranda's at the gym being her regular just Miranda's self, right, and this very handsome guy starts flirting with her, and he's so obviously trying to get her out to go, and she's fully oblivious in a very Miranda type of a way, and then he fully has to say like, oh, yeah, no, I'm trying. I want to take you out. So they go out and he's totally into her. She doesn't say much, and he says to her something like, you know, you hardly talk. Did I talk so much? Did I talk too much? Which I was like, wow, that's unlike Miranda that she wouldn't talk. And then the second time they go out, she's kind of feeling herself because this handsome guy thinks she's so sexy, which she said to Carrie like, I don't think of myself this way. I think of myself as smart. And later on I try to convince them that I'm sexy, but this guy just sees that I'm.

00:45:35
Speaker 3: Sexy across the gym.

00:45:37
Speaker 1: So then she's kind of playing a part a little bit, right, like, oh, and you know, I love my life. She's on the date with him, I love my life. And you know, Cynthia's so funny when she does these things.

00:45:47
Speaker 3: Right, I just love it.

00:45:48
Speaker 1: And he's just sitting there and he doesn't look that into her, and then she tries to kiss him and he doesn't really do it. And then later on, in very Miranda style, she goes up to him at the gym and she says, hey, you know, it's just really weird because you're really into me, but then you suddenly weren't and I don't know why, and it's fine, but I'm just wondering.

00:46:06
Speaker 3: And he goes, well, you just seem kind of full of yourself.

00:46:09
Speaker 1: And part of me wonders, Like, I mean, the writers and the actors we were in this experience together, right, So like we were doing this kind of unheard of, unknown show in a bubble, and then it got more popular and more popular.

00:46:23
Speaker 3: Third season is when it kind of like.

00:46:24
Speaker 1: Wow, papaw out out, like like popping champagne. And now we're at fourth season, and so I'm wondering. It was often they were writing their own stories, and then occasionally I felt like Michael Patrick would put in a little like like a personal dig at us, right, do you know what I mean? Like upcoming it hasn't happened yet. I had done a play off Broadway called The Exonerated, which was about real people who were put in on in prison for crimes they didn't commit on death row and then we're exonerated and came out.

00:46:54
Speaker 3: So it was a super serious play.

00:46:56
Speaker 1: I'm downtown doing this play and they send a New York Times time to take my picture.

00:47:01
Speaker 3: But it's downtown. It's not a photo shoot.

00:47:03
Speaker 1: It's like it's a photo shoot, but it's like super down right, like no hair and makeup, blah blah blah. So I'm nervous about it and excited that it's like a real like a real piece or whatever. In the New York Times when it comes out, there's like a mark on my upper lip, like an ink stain on my upper lip.

00:47:19
Speaker 3: And it's not just in one New York Times, it's in all of them.

00:47:22
Speaker 1: He wrote that into the show when Harry and Charlotte get their picture taken on the rocks for the love section, you know, for the engagement section, and I say.

00:47:33
Speaker 3: Like, I look like Hitler.

00:47:34
Speaker 1: I call Carrie and I'm like, I look like That was based on something in life that happened to.

00:47:38
Speaker 2: Me, right, So hilarious.

00:47:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was hilarious, Like so Michael right that he would do that, but usually it was the writers but like this whole storyline I felt for Miranda.

00:47:48
Speaker 3: I felt like it was kind of.

00:47:50
Speaker 1: A little bit like, oh, you guys feel so successful, now, do you know what I mean? Maybe I'm reading into that and it wasn't and I'm going to ask him makes sense.

00:47:59
Speaker 2: It's because it's like the people, you're like going on people's assumptions of what you must be like because you was experiencing such success, yeah, and kind of dealing with the thought of what somebody might be thinking and then reacting on it. It's very complicated. But I love that, isn't it?

00:48:16
Speaker 1: And then what they really like is that you weren't like that, right, you know? But then like, how do you like, how do you make sense of that?

00:48:25
Speaker 2: Funny?

00:48:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is, isn't it. It's interesting to think about.

00:48:28
Speaker 1: But when I do watch it, like I had always thought that the first season was was really bad, like a mess in my mind, That's what I thought, because I think we felt a bit of a mess right like we were nothing had aired, we didn't know what people were going to say. But when I look back on it, it's so good and all the pieces are there.

00:48:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, what's all of you? Because you guys have such great chemistry. You're all so funny, you know. It was such a unique take on sexuality and women and business and New York and independence. Yeah, it was so powerful. I think that's why it was such a phenomenon because you were speaking to this idea that women's stories matter, yea, and this is and without the idea of like children were maybe children coming right, but without the idea of like husband's but husband's coming right. It's like really the search for ourselves.

00:49:20
Speaker 3: Definitely the search for ourselves.

00:49:22
Speaker 1: As Michael Patrick you know, puts it, starts putting in as we go, right, like he deepens it, he deepens it, he deepens it. But even in the kind of rough first season, it's all there. Yeah, and it's a little bit messy, and I think that's what people love.

00:49:38
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree. Did we do what I mean?

00:49:43
Speaker 1: Anything else that you want to talk about from the memories.

00:49:46
Speaker 2: It's just really special. It's really special to have been a part of it, you know, being a part of such a huge phenomenon at the apex, this was the apex of it, you know, and to just have a little bit of a couple of days to walk around and witness what you guys were doing and you know, be able to participate. It was a real honor and it was really one of the things that I treasure most in my career. I agree.

00:50:09
Speaker 1: I think you're just so fantastic. And I really wish we'd brought you back. And I really wish you'd been in and just like that, and I really wish you'd written our show. I know it would have been so interesting.

00:50:18
Speaker 2: Let's do it all again.

00:50:20
Speaker 3: Totally, Let's do it all again.

00:50:22
Speaker 1: The nice thing too, is like we're all still out there functioning, right, Like you just got to keep going and find your way and get your voice out there. And I think it's so great your touring still, it's kind of amazing.

00:50:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's really fun.

00:50:34
Speaker 3: I'm so glad.

00:50:35
Speaker 2: I was so glad. Thank you for joining us. Thank you. This was so fun.

00:50:39
Speaker 1: Is there anything else about the tour that we could suggest or mention or.

00:50:44
Speaker 2: People can get tickets at Margaret Chow dot com. I'm going everywhere. It's called Choligarchy, and I'm it's all political comedy. I want to get to a new world and you know, get out of this terrible situation. That we're in love. It's a lot of fun.

00:51:01
Speaker 1: I love it that you have your own website and you're just doing it. Yes, good for you, Good for you.

00:51:06
Speaker 3: I have another question.

00:51:08
Speaker 1: I have no idea what you're gonna say, But, Margaret Choe, are you a Charlotte.

00:51:14
Speaker 2: I am part Charlotte. I'm also I'm part Miranda. I'm probably like I would say, I'm a Charlotte with a Miranda Rising love it. And but my moon is in Samantha love it. And yeah, and I have a lot of carry in my chart.

00:51:35
Speaker 1: Ooh, I think that's fantastic. That makes good sense. That makes good sense. I love to hear everybody's answers. They're always really interesting. I think that makes sense if I think about you, Yes, I mean because you do have kind of a you know, like a sharp, sharp wit, like a Miranda wit, you know. And but then also like there's exploration in the way that Carrie does in your work, you know, for like turning something over, like what do we think of this?

00:52:05
Speaker 3: Like yeah, yeah, and then I love.

00:52:07
Speaker 1: If you have a I think a Samantha moon is about the best that.

00:52:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good scentual.

00:52:14
Speaker 2: It's yeah, erotic it's it's it can be very like you know, raunchy at times.

00:52:20
Speaker 3: So for fantastic love it, love it, love it so much. All right, thank you so much for joining us. It's really really fun, so fun.

00:52:28
Speaker 2: Have a great day. Thank you too.

00:52:30
Speaker 3: Okay, thanks bye,